Connection between crossdressing and submission?

[adrienner99]

I hope this is not inappropriate and apologize in advance if it is. But do you think there is some sort of connection between crossdressing and being submissive? And what is that all about? I see so many stories (and ads) about submissive crossdressers who want to be maids or otherwise dominated. And while dressing up like a girl might seem "sissy" to others, I think most of us dress without any feelings of sissiness at all. I yearn to wear dresses, heels, makeup, perfume, etc. But do not yearn to be submissive....Where is that line, and why does it seem so prevalent among us?

[EllenJo]

Is it a matter of being submissive or more along the lines of wanting to escape the pressure of being the alpha male world many of us have to cope with evvery day. When I get home each day and slip into a skirt and blouse I am taking a break from having to deal with the pressure of male life. I don't feel like a sissy, never, have even when dressed. There is a sub culture out there that seems to embrace that attitude and that is fine with me, but I just want to relax and becoming Ellen Jo accomplishes that. I know that GG's have pressures of their own that even us crossdressers cannot understand. I just love female clothing and the feelings they give me.

[susmitha]

I do not want to be submissive or be a sissy in the derogatory sense. But I like to be the submissive partner in lovemaking.

[Beverley Sims]

I think submissiveness does border on our realms of fantasy.
Our imagination of what being feminine is.
As we get older so our views change.

[Pat]

There are no rules here. If you want to dress, do. If you don't wish to be submissive, don't. You get to make your own choices just as you have to respect the choices others make. ;)

[noeleena]

Hi,

There does seem to be a few who are into this for what ever reason. myself im not sure the reason. though I do know a few who are into this.
wether its just a game or as said getting away from real life,

I will say concerning myself as having to take on the role of being incharge of our family that means in work and finance plus other aspects of our live's,

I cant answer for or as a male , from a woman's perspective I find it strange,
As a female though the clothes makeup perfume and what you may think importaint for you, is not that importaint and I can be happy in work boots and bib overalls, maybe some here think im a bit weird because being dressed as I do is not being very feminine or as a normal female,

part of the detail of cause will be I don't look much like a female because of my facial features so why would I try to be more feminine when I know I cant, yes I have been told or asked why I don't wear makeup. some people are surprised I don't and when I say I don't wear makeup they will see I have lovely skin

Bottom line is im accepted for who I am the way I am.

...noeleena...

[Crissy Kay]

There may be some truth to it in my case, but I really don't think of myself as a sub while dressed. I think its mostly an escape from the male world in a way, as EllenJo has said.

[mechamoose]

I could crossdress by wearing a women's power suit.

I could also crossdress by wearing a black leather corset, thigh-high boots and long black gloves while holding a riding crop.

That isn't submissive, is it?

Dressing like Angela Merkel or Pink vs Lady Gaga or Heidi Klum each project a very different image, so it comes down to 'headspace'. You make some internal changes when you dress, but they are not automatically submissive.

<3

- MM

[Teresa]

Some replies are saying it's an escape from our male role, CDing does that anyway !
I think it may be more to do with as males we know we shouldn't wear women's clothes, if we're made to do it we lose the need to explain why we're dressed up, the sissy clothes just increase the humiliation of being made to do it !
Some women genuinely like doing it and as we know some make a lot of money from it !

[adrienner99]

Note to Jenie-cd: I respect everyone's choices. I am being curious, not judgmental.

[Stephanie Julianna]

I always admit that I am a submissive when asked in PM's by some of the girls here, However, if I had to live as a woman full time, God help the man or woman who tried to make me do something I did nor want to do when I truly did nor want to do it. Does that make me a part time bitch or just an assertive woman?

[devida]

I'm not submissive. I used to be much more dominant, and still occasionally according to my SO - who should know - still am if I don't take care to be polite. I recognize that these power games for many people are thrilling but they have very little appeal to me. I was trained, socialized, and encouraged throughout my life to dominate but I really want to be neither dominant nor submissive. It's just another binary I reject because accepting it isn't conducive to my happiness. Apart from the sexual thrill dominance/submission games don't seem to make anybody happy.

[mechamoose]

Stephanie, you seem to have a firm grip on who you are, and get hacked off if someone tries to make you something you are not.

There is *nothing* wrong with that, and you shouldn't feel awkward about it.

<3

- MM

[Jessica86]

I don't particularly think it is the dressing that cues the submissiveness in us. As for me, I have to be an extremely dominant male in my work. If anyone here saw me working, you would be in total shock I crossdress. I know when I dress, I want to be on the other side of that spectrum. I want to be submissive. I want to be dominated. It is a change, and you get tired of doing the same things every day....no matter what it is.

[Jenniferathome]

no, no connection at all.

[Maxi]

I am generally the dominate male, dressed or not, but it is fun to play the submissive role once in a while. My wife is the same type A personality, together we take turns at who submits. No set standard. We both like a break from being dominate.

[sometimes_miss]

I think if you ask women, they don't like the concept of being submissive either. What you will find, is that lots of women prefer to have their man 'lead' during sex, and make the decisions in general matters, because they don't like feeling responsible should things not work out right. However, those same women reserve the right to 'veto' the guy's very same decisions, which every one of us has experienced in this all too common experience: Him: O.K., let's go out do dinner. Where would you like to go? Her: Oh, anyplace is fine with me. Him: Great. How about Lombardo's, that new Italian place. Her: No, I don't feel like Italian tonight. Him: Well, how about Chung's. I haven't had Chinese in a while. Her: No, I had Chinese for lunch with the girls. And on and on and on. As far as being submissive sexually, well again most women prefer to have the guy initiate everything, and prefer that he be responsible for everything, contraception, both parties orgasms, etc.. So it's not submissiveness, it's passivity. Being in the female role feels akin to having the other person make all the decisions, basically be responsible for everything, as well as doing most of the work. When everything goes right, she can feel that she, being exciting enough, was responsible for the encounter being such a success, while if things don't work out quite so well, she can blame him for not performing well enough. Basically, in a relationship, a woman is in a no lose position. Consider this also: You're out at dinner alone. You overhear a woman complaining to her girlfriend that she's not satisfied sexually in bed. A man will conclude that it's her male mate who is not capable or skilled enough. A woman will conclude the same. It's never the woman who is at fault. Now, flip it upside down. You overhear a guy telling his male friend that sex isn't as good as he'd like with his girlfriend. His male friend will conclude that the guy isn't skilled enough or can't keep it up. A girl will also conclude that the guy isn't sensitive enough or skilled enough in bed. No matter what, or who, is involved, it's always assumed that it's the guy's fault. When it comes to contraception, it's the same situation. Women feel that it's the man who is responsible for the woman's body, if she gets pregnant, it's his fault, never hers, even though she has plenty of options for birth control. She gets pregnant, he's financially responsible, even if she made absolutely no attempt at birth control of her own. So it's pretty easy to understand why a guy might want to assume the female role occasionally to stop feeling responsible for every single damn thing in the relationship. Adopting the passive, or receptive role in the relationship or in sex simply allows us to feel like the other person is taking the responsibility for OUR happiness for a change, a feeling most guys never experience.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Adrienner , It sounds like when BD-S&M meets CDing, To each his/her own .

[Erica Marie]

I think it comes down to why a certain person dresses. I dont think dressing and being submissive is related. For those who prefer to be a "sissy" a "maid" or someones "toy" I would say comes down to there own certain fetishes or fantasies. Read a lot of forums and you will find that people dress for many many different reasons.

[Barbara Dugan]

I am normally sub...crosdressing just make it more fun

[mechamoose]

sometimes_miss,

Relationships are a set of agreements and a power exchanges. A couple, any couple regardless of gender, have roles they fill. In the 'traditional' sense, guys tend to just want to make their 'girl' happy. 'Regular' guys will sacrifice their own wants to meet 'her' set of needs, even if they don't understand it (which they often don't).

A good partnership is a pairing of equal partners with their own strengths & weaknesses. You fill in each other's gaps. It has more to do with supporting each other than it does what is 'appropriate'. Most of us here are not filling an 'appropriate' role, and are trying to figure out how to work that into our lives.

I prefer strong, fierce people, *especially* in females. I really don't like 'high maintenance' people. A *lot* of regular guys like girls who are into sports, appreciate a good sweat, and are strong. They can *identify* with it. It makes *sense* to them. The 'pretty princess' thing is confusing & destructive.

A person who wants to express being the other gender causes a lot of confusion for 'regular' folks. This is in part because of media and social norms, in part because *they*don't*see*it*. It is unusual. It isn't common.

If a person is raised to believe that they are destined to be 'taken care of', or to 'marry a good provider', then that is what they will do. I think parents should challenge their kids to be strong and confident regardless of gender. They will believe that they can do anything if that is what you teach them.

- MM

[JenniferR771]

Yes. I am a bit submissive--and my wife likes to take on the leadership role. I am submissive in my fetishes and fantasies.
Remember the very earliest crossdresser fiction usually had young men forced or coerced into wearing girls clothes. It was often due to unusual circumstances and sometimes with the firm control of a domineering older woman.

[NicoleScott]

For some, there is a connection (they say so). Not for most, though. I have a maid's outfit and try to look as sissy as I can when I choose it to wear for a dressup session. I don't even mind being called a sissy when in that mode. However, my dressing is done in private, so there's no role play, no submission. I like the maid's outfit because I like how it looks. I have all kinds of fantasies, but little carries over into reality other than the dressing.

[bentervine]

There's a connection, but it's different for everybody. I like being submissive to an extent, but not to the scale of the whole 'sissy' thing, not that there's anything wrong with that.

The connotation of women being submissive is tied to the past, though...

[KaylaRoxx]

I've always been really into dominace and submission kinda stuff, but i would absolutely hate to be a "sissy" or a maid, or anything like that. I'm usually pretty dominant, and I've been told that i actually get more rough and dominant when I'm dressed up. I do like to be submissive sometimes, but not always, and i think if i ever had to do the whole "sissy" thing it would just kill it for me, crossdressing and bdsm...i absolutely hate being called a sissy, and everything that goes with it.

[Kate Simmons]

I don't think there is one really. Being submissive is a personal choice the way I see it.:)

[Katey888]

I suspect an accurate survey would show pretty much the same proportion of submissive personalities as in the general population... I doubt that any funky gender miswiring that we experience would impact sexual submissiveness... The reason you see so many ads for submissive 'sissys' is simply because that is a fetish sub-sect... I don't think the crossdressing motivation is necessarily the same and motivation is key...

I don't think I've ever known a really submissive woman... but then I've always been attracted to strong personalities... :thinking:

Katey x

[sayhi2dd]

I think there's something to the escape the pressure of being the alpha male in society with cross dressing. However, I feel woman are far more powerful then men, so by assuming their persona is to exhibit the natural power they possess. Call it what you may, it's all good.

[Ressie]

Dominate CDs seem to be rare so what does that tell you? I'm quite passive and need to make an effort to be assertive in dealing with people in general. I think there's a connection for some of us but maybe it's just two qualities that coincide.

[Pink Susan]

Submissive in Sex , yes , absolutely , but not in other areas of my Life , quite the opposite infact

[LisaKarenAZ]

I echo many others' sentiments on this. Outside of the bedroom, I am assertive, because I have to be for my job and my family. This has nothing to do with being man or woman, it's just a trait necessary to navigate life in my world.
As for the bedroom, I prefer to be submissive with my wife and I fantasize about us having swapped genders. For a successful relationship though, there needs to be a balance. Again, nothing to do with being male or female. My wife actually prefers to be dominant, but sometimes wants me to take control.

There is no direct correlation that has been proven between crossdressing and submissiveness in men. I believe it is more about having a balance of sensitivity and refusal to fall within the alpha male dominant stereotypes.

[typhoidmary]

I'd say I'm a fairly submissive type in general, I always have been, but that has more to do with being shy and easily intimidated than anything else. in terms of a relationship though I prefer it being more even, I can't stand being with someone who's bossy and controlling, nor someone who never wants to take the lead on anything and never says what they actually want.

[rocval2001]

If I were the female in the relationship - I think I would be a bit on the submissive side - with more traditional male - female roles. I would take care of the home and work as needed - while my man took the lead - I guess it was the way I was brought up.

[Sc0rp10N]

I would LIKE my cross dressing to be a submissive version of me, but if that were the case, it would never serve its intended purpose. I only do it in relation to sex and my wife can't or won't be dominant with me. We've discussed it multiple times. She's tried to do it, maybe made a few statements here and there on those special nights, but the reality is, if I don't drive our sex, no one does. It's not that she doesn't want it, it's just that she just won't go get it.

[KaceyR]

In my case..I've considered it to be separate but for me there's a bit of blurring the lines.
I will say I am a bit of a sexual ah..freak. Most things/kinks involved with sex play interest me..only a few things don't.
I'm a big open sex ed advocate also on my twitter and FB feeds.
But I really don't do partnered play however (been solo for 30+years).
But I guess Submissive has been my nature - never figured that I could really be a good Dom...

I've seen the stuff on Sissification, Femdom, and such though and while I like the topic, stories, and art, I ran into a logic issue if applied to me.
Namely...
Sissification means forcing a sub to be a sissy...usually it's the act of making him do it when it's against his nature. The bigger tough macho guy getting forced to be feminine. With some other parts (forced to go out dressed) it's also a bit of a humiliation effect for his ego. But For -that- guy it's a great release...turning off his nature to express the other side.

But we do this already with our expression. Or we just extend our already known feminine side with CDing.

For me, sure I could continue my Subbing under the Dom, and put on the maid outfit... Or other women's clothing and be paraded outdoors... But it's already what I do on my own. I can't say there'd be much humiliation involved... (Unless the dom made me wear things 'badly' so I couldn't look good at it :))

So while it's neat, the clothing/dressing side doesn't really impact subbing play too well. At least with my logical thought.

Plus, we get to tie it into the 'why do we crossdress' thing.
Some do it to self-experience the other side by nature (Dysphoria), others due to maybe external influences (work,military), others just as kink, and so forth. All affecting what would be thought of success for a good D/S scheme.

From the Doms perspective: I remember listening to a podcast by Ruby Ryder (and hope this isn't too bad to state about in the forum here) of one that teaches and does pegging. The statement (paraphrasing) was that it was the 'contrast' that excites more.. The fact that the burly, athletic, macho man is made to feel vulnerable, it's the contrast that creates the excitement and what she herself likes.
Because of that, I'm unsure a lot of us could provide that contrast.

[Ginger Jameson]

I've only been crossdressing for about five years. I've leaned towards submissive for quite a lot longer than that. I don't know how much correlation equals causation, but it's something I've thought about. I definitely don't think I'd like crossdressing without my submissive side. On the other hand, just because I've got panties on doesn't mean I won't be in the mood to take control.

In the end I think they're separate personality traits but that it can be easy for one to lead to the other. Society says that a man in a dress is weaker than a man in pants. So it sort of makes sense that if a guy enjoys submission he can enhance that feeling with crossdressing. Likewise if he enjoys crossdressing the mere act of it might make him feel weaker and more submissive.

[Vickie_CDTV]

The maid thing isn't my specific fetish personally, but I totally understand it. Not only is it a desire to be submissive but for some it is also a desire to somehow please a woman, to bring a desire to dress and a desire to feel submissive and combine it in some way to please and make enjoyable the experience for a woman as well (in the way some like to combine dressing and sex with their wives, 2 things they enjoy together.) I am submissive and have a desire to please... sadly outside of fantasy that is not what the vast majority of GGs want in a man, just the way it is.

[Emi_]

Without having read the other comments I will only add this: I have dressed as a woman for over 20 years and I promise you that I am in no real way submissive. in fact, I am stubborn and willful and opinionated. I am not some monster - I am polite and know my manners - but I'm not rolling over for anybody. I've worked really hard to be where i am today and I don't care to give in to anybody else without plenty of good reason.

[suchacutie]

Tina has no submissive tendencies at all. It's just never been a part of her thinking. She is accepting of having a door opened for her, or being offered to go ahead of a male waiting for her, but that's just the politeness of being a woman in our culture.

[Frédérique]

…do you think there is some sort of connection between crossdressing and being submissive?

I submit to your hypothesis… :thinking:

[Marcelle]

Hi Adrienne. I think what you are seeing is a statistical artefact with some other aspects thrown in. We (MtF CDers) are a cross section of males in society . . . we just happen to prefer to dress like women along a continuum. It is very likely that percentage wise those who engage in submissive play are also going to be represented in our population and this will be mixed with dressing en femme (maid, secretary, housewife, etc.). So IMO it is no so much a link between cross dressing and submission but part of the human condition which makes us (people) a very interesting group.

Hugs

Isha

[Marsha My Dear]

Long after I revealed to my wife that I CD, we tried a Mistress/slave relationship. What a big bomb that was! It was a disappointment to me, but I fully appreciated where she stood on it. A couple of years ago I asked if she would be more comfortable if I took on a submissive 'Servant' role. She is very comfortable as my 'Madame'. To anyone, I appear a very attentive husband. But at home I take delight in anticipating, and fulfilling her needs and wants. She isn't abusive of the arrangement and we are both quite tickled it's working out well. Good luck!

[atxpantyboy]

There is a strong connection between the two for me. I've been a long-time lurker on this site, but early on realized I was a bit different than what I would view as the slight majority of CD'ers here, so only occasionally come back to read posts and catch up. I'm definitely NOT straight, but also not gay. I'm not sure bisexual is even accurate as I have no romantic or physical attraction to men (although I can appreciate a nice body - I just don't whiplash or drool like with a gorgeous woman), only sexual attraction to men, and frankly kind of as objects to me. As for women, I am very attracted to them physically, emotionally, and sexually. When I am with a man I am almost always a submissive bottom, with women I am a switch and really enjoy variety with or without any domination, and on the occasions when I have been with a TS, I usually prefer to bottom. I sometimes feel like my sexual attraction to men is an extension of expressing my feminine side as there is nothing more emasculating to me than submitting to another man. I would think there is a somewhat higher correlation of submissiveness in crossdressers, but that is purely speculative, and obviously from the replies here, it doesn't seem like the majority of CD'ers on here correlate the two.