Tough decisions

[Rachael Leigh]

I've been on this forum for many months and made many friends here, over the last few weeks I've been almost absent. Why? Well I had to make a very difficult decision about my dressing it had been a rough few months with my wife and even though I tried to get her to understand I pushed to hard and I also think the pink fog clouded my judgement somewhat.
My wife was pretty certain she was leaving me and I just could not let that happen.
She's my best friend and I had no desire to be alone at my age.
So I did the dreaded P word and in a flash my wardrobe was gone I felt this was the only way to keep things together. So some here will notice my profile picture is gone and avitar as well and it will stay that way. I recognize I'm still a CD but from now on most likely it will stay in house and without a big presentation of makeup and wig and the like
I will most likely not build my wardrobe in the way it was and will mostly just be happy in my panties and sometime my night wear but for me I had to take a breath and realize I was hurting my wife too much and being extremely selfish.
Many here won't understand and that's ok but it was my decision as difficult as it was.
I

[Tinkerbell-GG]

As a wife who feels like yours, you've done the only thing you can. When a person realises they just don't like something, there's very little you can do to help them overcome it. Believe me, I've seen many wives try and fail time and again. I came here to get help leaving my H, or at least to make a decision, and I've managed to come to an arrangement that means we can remain married. But I can't be any part of my H's crossdressing. I've asked him a hundred times if he's certain he can keep it separate like this, and as a rare activity. He continues to promise yes. I guess he values our marriage more than his dressing, as you do.

Many here don't understand my views, or those of your wife. They think we should compromise and learn to accept our spouse's crossdressing. But how do you accept something that literally leaves you feeling wrong? Uncomfortable? Like you have hands squeezing the inside of your stomach until you feel physically sick? This is how I feel when I see my H dressed. Why? I wish I could tell you. The logical part of me can't actually see the big deal, but the gut-wrenching emotional response overrides anything I tell myself. It's as innate to me as your dressing is to you and I'll always feel wrong no matter how much research I do or conversation I have. This leaves me very sad, as I'm sure it does your wife, even though she may never tell you.

I hope you can find some peace with your decision, and be happy in your marriage without resentment. Otherwise, it would be kinder to let each other go. T x

[Rachael Leigh]

Tinker thank you so much, yes I know it's just as much a part of her feelings to not like or understand as it is being a part of me. I wish many times it wasn't and believe me this isn't the first purge but this last time I went crazy I just had to dress everyday and loved doing pictures but I'm trying to understand her feelings better this time.
We have been married 32 years so there is a lot invested here.
Thanks again for your perspective

[Emi_]

The fact of the matter is that, when we get married, we make promises to one another and those promises - that commitment to hold the other person as first and most important in our lives - are the only thing that matters in life the instant we say, "I do." This is really difficult for people nowadays to understand and it's shown through the nearly 54% divorce rate in the US alone. In order for a marriage to survive and be healthy we must learn to grow and adapt and, yes, even sacrifice for the sake of the bond and for the love we have for our partners.

I don't think for one second that what you have done was easy nor am I convinced that you feel you have been treated fairly but I salute and respect your placing your spouse and the life you have built with them - the promise you made when you became man and wife - before even your own personal needs and desires. Too many are too selfish to understand love like that, let alone being able to give it. Your spouse is truly blessed to have you and your spouse must be an incredible person for you to love them that much.

All love and respect to you.

[Sara Jessica]

Many here don't understand my views, or those of your wife. They think we should compromise and learn to accept our spouse's crossdressing. But how do you accept something that literally leaves you feeling wrong? Uncomfortable? Like you have hands squeezing the inside of your stomach until you feel physically sick? This is how I feel when I see my H dressed. Why? I wish I could tell you. The logical part of me can't actually see the big deal, but the gut-wrenching emotional response overrides anything I tell myself. It's as innate to me as your dressing is to you and I'll always feel wrong no matter how much research I do or conversation I have. This leaves me very sad, as I'm sure it does your wife, even though she may never tell you.

I have said repeatedly that I can sympathize with what our SO's go through. Regardless of whether this thing of ours is something we do or part of who we are...or somewhere in between, one sentence said above jumps out at me because it can be my own words...


Like you have hands squeezing the inside of your stomach until you feel physically sick...

Many here may share the same sentiment. If I dwell on an inability to simply "be" as I often put it, I feel the exact same way you are describing. The only exception is that I feel it in my heart, like my heart is in a vice.

How can both sides of these scenarios be so wrong, and be so right at the same time???

[Emi_]

We who cross-dress can be a fairly selfish lot. We readily and happily choose ourselves over our spouses as if it were a fundamental human right. We don't think about her heart and her dreams and her life and her needs. We are so overcome by our desire that we forget that we made a promise. My "right" to be "me" ended when I turned into part of "we."
No
If I am not willing to suffer for the sake of the woman I married, she does not deserve me for a husband and I certainly don't deserve her as a wife.

Every time I put on my makeup and pretty things, I know I am doing so only by the grace of my wife who has so graciously given me this privilege. She owed me none of this. No spouse owes their partner the "right" of self-interest.

[Donnagirl]

Leigh,

I feel you pain... I was so close to that only a few short months ago. Can I only offer up what worked for me and my wife, talking, talking and more talking... I realised that I was consumed in the dreaded pink fog, was selfish and uncaring. My biggest problem was making assumptions about how the wife felt, what she understood and what she believed the future represented. I took that assumption as truth and acted on it. She also was making decisions based on inaccurate assumptions. Neither took the time to fully understand each other and were making letting our imaginations rule our judgements.

I asked, pleaded with my wife to join this forum and talk to the other SO's to obtain a second opinion. I really beat myself up internally over my selfish attitude.

Together we have saved our relationship. I'm sure if that little blue pill existed to make the urge to CD go away, she would have me take in a heartbeat, however she is now far more accepting of me and my need to CD. She still may not like it but she now tolerates it and has found ways to even enjoy parts of it. Currently she is enjoying using me as a canvas to experiment make up techniques...

I'm not suggesting what worked for us will work for you but please communication, understanding and compromise are a great start and there is always a light at the end of the tunnel...

I know my wife's tolerance may not remain so strong and I have the capacity to so easily knock down all that has been built but I now understand the need to keep in step with her not push or drag her along... We move at her pace. She is involved in every decision and has ultimate veto in everything. Over the last few weeks we have gone from strength to strength..

I do hope it works out for you...

[Marcelle]

Hi Leigh . . . we all make decisions in our lives and some of those are for us and some of those are for others. You have made the best decision possible under trying circumstances and I salute you for your courage in doing so. We are all here for you sweetie and you know I am only a PM away should you need to talk.

Hugs

Isha

[Katey888]

Big hugs Leigh... :bighug:

You've done what you needed to - don't beat yourself up too much, as you rightly recognise we can't shake this thing, just somehow live with it... and then try to find a way for our loved ones to live with it, which doesn't always work out...

Sometimes things can change over time... but know that we're here to listen and support you unconditionally however it turns out...

Take it easy... :hugs:

Katey x

[Teresa]

Leigh,
I'm really hoping this works for you, we all know Cders are in a no win situation ! You stay in the closet and it hurts you come out it still hurts because you know it's hurting others.
You have basically pushed some of your being back into hiding, I find that hard because I feel the best part of me is a stranger to family and friends.
I've ten years on you and through a series of talks with my wife recently I realised things have got to change.
The one thing that has really hit me is the fact that CDing is for life, it's not going away with age ! I can't continue the the guilt of hiding away , there has to be ways of it becoming more open and accepted. I don't want to hurt my wife but she knows it's hurting me, if she really can't live with me as a cder I'm prepared to accept her decision and call it a day if it makes her happy, I would do that out of love for her and not love of CDing!

[Beverley Sims]

If you have a good marriage and a great wife, sometimes hard decisions have to be made.
You have made some positive decisions and I hope you continue asolid relationship.
Maybe later you may be able to take up where you left off.

For now, work on that relationship that you have. :)

[Pippa A]

Hey Leigh, I know you don't know me from Adam, but I really wanted to say that I have huge respect for the integrity you're showing in putting to one side something that has been such a dear part of your life for so long. I hope everything works out for you hun.

[Deedee Skyblue]

Leigh, everyone has to do what works for their own lives. Glad you have the courage to do this. Here's something learned from a 12 step program. There will be times when your urge is very powerful. Plan for those times in advance by thinking about other things you can do when they strike - other interesting things, things that you like to do, and can do on short notice (like, go out for an ice cream). If you can distract yourself for a few minutes, those strong urges may subside to background noises. You may never be 'urge free' but you can find ways to live through them, and the moment-to-moment intensity does lessen as time passes and you become used to living without dressing. Good luck!

Deedee

[Michelle (Oz)]

Leigh, I fully understand your position and to Tinkerbell the impact on your wife. Two years ago almost to the day I tried to have a discussion with my wife. After almost 4 years absence the urge/need to CD had come back with a vengeance.

It was a very traumatic time for both of us. She threatened suicide - "can't live with you but can't live without you". I went to a psychologist a number of times over a period of 6 months to be told there was nothing wrong with me and there is no 'cure'. That was important for me to know. She also thought that my wife wouldn't suicide.

There have been a few more incidents but the impact has now greatly diminished. How do we both gain what we need and live within a totally loving relationship? Our answer is DADT. She knows that I dress and where my clothes are but I am careful to keep my femme life separate. Sad when my wife is my best friend but at least I don't feel guilty continuing dressing nor suffer from the roller coaster of a wife's changing emotions.

My hope is that my experience and the passage of time might give you hope for a workable solution to emerge. Some will say talk, talk, talk. It might work for some but in my case that would be a fundamental mistake confronting my wife with a no-win conversation. Also, be careful what you promise - you will be held to account.

[Rachael Leigh]

The outpouring of support from all of you girls us just amazing I knew many here had very simular situations but I never expected this kind of support. Thank you all for your words of encouragement it means a lot.
I know over the next few months will be hard and we do talk a lot about this and it's been good mostly. I've come to understand I have to be honest with her and not hide what I'm really thinking and feeling but with that I need to understand her needs and feelings too. I've been really bad at that over the years. Not sure many here know but my wife did know when we got married but even back then I wasn't even sure how much I wanted to dress but it's never really gone away. So it's going to be a tough road but it's nice to know I've got you ladies to chat with.
Hugs all Leigh

[Samantha Clark]

Leigh,

I, too, have a 32 year marriage to the love of my life. Nothing is more important than her being in my life. I have not yet completely let her in on this part of me (whatever that is, and I don't know myself how far I go with it), and it's a heavy burden. You are doing the right thing about making her a priority and seeking a mutual understanding. Marriage is about bringing two souls closer together. That means sometimes letting go of things one holds dear in favor of the needs of the other spouse. Whether you give up CD for her sake, or she gives up her resistance for your sake, is something only the two of you can work out together.

I wish life could be easier, but it isn't. Best of everything to both you and your wife.

[AnneC]

Reading your post I really feel your pain in this. I also feel the same way about my wife and friend and would not want to hurt her. So far things have not gone to the ultimatum stage but I'm sure I would react the same way you did. I wish you all the best.

[NicoleScott]

When a person realises they just don't like something, there's very little you can do to help them overcome it.

I get this, as my first wife could not stay married to a crossdrresser. Still, my initial reaction to LeighR's post is that Leigh is a lot more committed to the marriage than the wife. Thirty-two year marriage down the drain because of some clothes.

[Confucius]

I admire and respect your decision. You are placing the needs of your wife and family before your desires to cross-dress and that is extremely admirable.

I believe your situation is not that different than my own. I tell my wife that I love her above everything else. She knows that cross-dressing makes me happy, but I tell her she can set the boundaries of my cross-dressing, and I will do my best to live within her limits. She is in control, and she is secure with that.

We have to be sensitive to our wife's needs too. She needs to be held and loved by a man. She needs to feel protected and secure with a man. She needs to love a man she can respect and honor. I am honored to be her man.

Good luck and best wishes on your journey.

[Lorileah]

How can both sides of these scenarios be so wrong, and be so right at the same time???

I think many of the members here are "pleasers" in that they spend a lot of time pleasing others at the expense of themselves.
I understand Tinkerbell's side of the issue, yes it IS had to learn to like something you don't like. I hate getting up and going to work, but I live with it. On the opposite side of that coin is the SO asking the CD to give up something they feel is part of them. So which is easier, learning to "like" or at least accept something, especially something that is often harmless? Or giving up a part of you to please someone else? The argument of when you said "I do" you gave up rights seems odd to me. Can "I do" also mean "I will love you for who you are and will try my best to accept all your idiosyncrasies" ? I see so often here that that road is a one way street, my way or the highway in either person's mind. I have stated my opinion of love here many times. Love, if it is a true love, doesn't make someone change. (BTW I am so proud of Tink here because even though she doesn't like it she is trying hard to understand it).

So which is a better thing? The SO hating it or the CD giving it up? In either scenario someone is miserable. At least, from what I gleaned from the OP, they are sort of kind of maybe compromising? That is often the best way to do it. Of course, as always, I say "Tell early Tell often" when getting into a relationship. That way the SO doesn't have a huge investment (and the TG doesn't either). Once you build up trust, it is hard to get back. And when someone lives with the omission of a key fact, I get why they would be angry. I do.

No pat answers here. Each case is unique and what someone will do on either side to maintain the relationship is wholly their choice. But having played the game (and to be honest it was MY game, neither woman demanded I give it up or hide it, I made that decision so "protect" them) I can tell you that being miserable for years by trying to be something you are not, wears a relationship as badly as an affair or drinking or drugs.

[Alice Torn]

Leigh, I have noticed your absence on here, and was about to Pm, then saw your thread. I am single, but had two older women come down on me on the last week, about my dressing. One said i should never marry, that i am no good for marriage. Last night, the other older woman told me God made me a man, and i should not try to be a woman. I have not found one woman , that accepts a man dressing up, anywhere. I have been feeling intense pressure to stop dressing, but the desire to look pretty and beautiful, is so intense, for so long, that i am like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. A love/hate relationship with dressing, and also a love/hate relationship with women. I can see, that if i keep it hi, and get married to a woman, i will be in the same boat. I wish there was a pill that would totally end all desire to dress! Some, say, God can give one the power to stop. I believe it is mostly possible, but i see that only terrible injury, illness, or death will end the desire totally. I hope , like others said, communication and sharing, and work, will keep your marriage going well, and dressing to bare minimum. One day at a time is all we can do, or one minute. It sounds like you are doing your part, and this is a part of you, you are sacrificing, but maybe you will be better keeping it away.

[CONSUELO]

This must have been a very difficult time for you LeighR. I hope that the next few months are much easier and that you reach an accommodation that works for you both.

From another perspective, the replies to this post are very interesting. If one ignores the specific comments about cross dressing, the general thrust of comments could easily be applied to someone realizing that they have an addiction that is damaging something much more important in their lives and consequently, the addiction is confronted and banished.
In many, many other posts and comments on this site the line taken is that cross dressing is something that is genetically influenced and that it is intrinsic to the individual and therefore cannot be simply treated as an addictive behavior. I find this apparent conflict both interesting and perplexing. I don't know what the answer is.

Please do not jump to any conclusion that the remarks in the preceding paragraph and questions are in any way a criticism of LeigR's decision. I understand and sympathize with what she is trying to do and I wish her every best wish for happiness and contentment

[Bria]

Reality and emotions!! The rational mind may tell the gut that "its just clothes", but the gut doesn't beleive it. What we feel is "right" in our gut is generally what we learned or were told when we were children.

Is abortion "right"? It may depend on what the gut says, How about a particular religion, is it "right"? When Tinkerbell says tht her gut is being squeezed, her mind may not be able to make the gut feel OK no matter how hard she tries. That's the emotion part. The reality part may be "its just clothes".

Leigh has taken a very high road, a very tough desision, one that I would hope that I would make if faced with a similar situation.

Leigh, please know that I will keep you and your wife in my prayers!

Hugs, Bria

[Desirae]

I see no winners in LeighR's situation. But, I'm in the same thought pattern as Nicole. It's just clothing. And although I'm single and have never been married and probably lack any standing to really comment on marriage, I always thought that the vows were, "for better or for worse"? I don't remember the "worse" being quantified? It may be one thing if the CDing spouse wants to take her CDing out and about in public, to the "clubs", or wants to engage in other wise risky behavior. But, I honestly don't see the big deal if it's kept behind closed doors and within the privacy of the household. We're talking CDing here, not TS-ing. It's just clothing.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

(BTW I am so proud of Tink here because even though she doesn't like it she is trying hard to understand it).


Thanks Lorileah :). Stories like this one help me see the other side. Leigh is putting her wife first and I find that quite incredible and very sweet, yet I also feel the pain of such a selfless decision and that of many others here. As some have written, it's just clothing. Why do I or any other wife have such a negative reaction, one that completely overrides common sense? Why does this hurt us so much?

I honestly have no clue. Why does a man wear women's clothing? I feel the answer lies somewhere between these too impossible questions x

[Christen]

Thinking of you Leigh. And admire your decision. I'd like to think I'd do the same if it came to the crunch. But I also have to say, it's just clothes, you are not a bad person because you CD.
Best,
Christen x

[kimdl93]

It's certainly your choice. Let me offer one bit of advice. The notion that you or any other CDr is selfish gets tossed about a good deal. Miss usually associated with guilt, either self imposed or applied by ones partner. Guilt for wanting to satisfy in some way, a deeply ingrained personal need. And it seems one is selfish for not happily abandoning oneself for the greater good. I do not feel that being a CDr should require a life of denial nor emotional martyrdom. One could quite reasonably ask for some measure of compromise. Absent that willingness to compromise, then the question becomes who is being selfish.

[PaulaQ]

I think that trying to deny a fundamental part of who you are, because it makes your partner uncomfortable is likely to be an exercise in misery, and ultimately futility. My wife was also the love of my life, and my best friend. When I came out to her, the only solution she could tolerate was for me to make all of my gender issues go away. But I could not compromise on that and survive. Perhaps you aren't as miserable as I was - but still, I bet this won't be pleasant for you. I can understand your desire to keep your life intact - I wanted mine to stay together too. It didn't though.

What I have found is that most people in my life don't want me to change - at all. Most of all my wife. Her view of me needed to be this steady, unwavering, strong but silent man. You can view either them, or me, as selfish, depending on your perspective, but in my case, the situation was literally either transition, or die. So I guess they'd rather I'd have died, leaving their views of me intact. :/ You can judge for yourself which is the most selfish behavior.

I wish you the best, Leigh, and I hope this works out for you both. Sometimes, though, things aren't meant to be - especially if only one person can compromise much. My wife would much rather I'd continued to swallow my misery, and silently suffer. Lots of people are like that, in my experience.

[Sara Jessica]

Paula, you bring up a good point when you say with reference to your wife, "When I came out to her...".

Think about it. I dare to say that most of the threads here about relationship issues that eventually end up with extreme compromise (if that's what you call one side giving up their POV completely) or utter destruction come out of relationships where the trans issues were disclosed after marriage.

Frankly, because I was an early-adopter of disclosure (having told my wife not even 3 or 4 months into dating), I cannot fathom what it must be like to feel compelled or obligated to disclose post-marriage. And while I may be of the opinion that such disclosure beats the heck out of hiding and subterfuge, I am thankful that for whatever reason, I never had to contemplate such things.

Lori mentions a pleasing mentality that may be prevalent here. Perhaps true, it may arise out of the fact that the women in our lives hold a lot of the cards when these things are disclosed post-marriage. There is zero leverage in any argument when blame for the entire scenario can easily fall on the side of the trans person. Think of the oft-used quotes...

I didn't sign on for this.

Your hiding this for so many years was simply lying.

Makes me think the pleaser mentality is just a manifestation of guilt because just looking at the two quotes above, there are few, if any, logical rebuttals (as if logic can even start to rebut emotion in the first place).

So keep falling on your swords. I'll be curious as to how sustainable the relationship proves to be in the long run.

[Sometimes Steffi]

My wife has just gotten to the point where she will let me go out with some CD friends, but she doesn't want any part of it. In her words, she struggles with it. So I try to keep my times out to about 2 per month or less. But beyond that, I fall on the other side of the line. If my wife were to give me and ultimatum, her or the crossdressing, she might be surprised about my choice. We will have been married 36 years in about 2 weeks.

[PaulaQ]

So keep falling on your swords. I'll be curious as to how sustainable the relationship proves to be in the long run.

My guess is that in many cases it won't be. Or maybe it'll last - but it won't be much fun for anyone involved.

I tried to suppress my gender issues for 50 years. I tried, really, really hard. I didn't want this in my life. I never wanted to be a woman - at least not with a male body, reviled by much of society. I just am one, like it or not. In the end, for me, no compromise was possible.

[MissTee]

Leigh, in reading this I am at once so terribly sad for you and so very thankful my wife is in the "just clothes" camp. Nevertheless, I have many times tried to disown myself, have purged and have vowed to "fight it." I was so miserable and despondent. I chose to be OK with me and not live that way.

I wish you all the best.

[Rachael Leigh]

One thing I will say on this is even having this as a part of me so long I was not prepared for the emotion of loss right after the purge. I had done it before but this time was different and I'm sure it's because I had finally understood it wasn't going away I accepted it and was really trying to have my wife do that too.
So fast forward 2 weeks after the purge and I was depressed and well I just said I'm going to go buy something so bought a sleep short set but this time I decided I would buy my wife something nice too.
Wow it was so amazing how nice it felt to shop again and also try and make sure I don't leave out my wife.
It made me realize this is very much and emotional part of me and it's just crazy.
I still doubt I will ever get back to where I was but now I do understand it better

[samanthasolo]

Leigh, we all make alot of hard decisions in our life even those that have nothing to do with dressing. Relationships are a 2 way street and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks here when it comes to the decisions and choices you make when it comes down to YOUR marriage and YOUR dressing habits. Call it Pink Fog or selfishness, it is your realization of the situation and your move to save what you could in your marriage. There is no I in relationship. This is the way it is for both of you RIGHT NOW and you will both work together to get past this, one of many hurdles which comes with the territory. You are a strong person to make these choices and your conscience will be something you will be able to live with for the right reasons. Good luck with all of this GF! ;.)

[Mollyanne]

I'm going to put myself out on a limb here and say this--------"Everyone must choose his own path to follow and sometimes that path is a very tough one" First of all, I don't know why I like to CD, I have been doing it for over 50 years now in one form or another. I too have Purged for the good of my marriage and have returned to do the same thing, secretly at times but I have returned. I have confided in my wonderful wife who is not thrilled about it to say the least but she tolerates it. I don't go "full boat" but I do dress in lingerie and in casual clothing. Compromise is a key element here and if there is no compromise than there will be an ending. Good Luck to you and your wife.

Molly

[Secret Drawer]

I fear that we are playing with fire on one hand and something reasonable on the other. If you suffer even a mild form of GID then psychologically you will actually do more harm then good trying to suppress your CDing. On the other hand, if you truly feel it is a fetish or something you have a mental handle on, then perhaps you can "take one for the team?" I wish you luck, but like PaulaQ and Kimdl93 have stated, its a two way street, and both have to work together because at least for me I don't see how this part of me is particularly selfish, and burying it may in fact end my life earlier then I wish it to end! (Through stress, depression, etc.)
And logically, Sara Jessica wondered how to rebutt "I didn't sign on for this." The answer lies in the "for better or worse" part of the deal. (and the tiny little issue of you marry the whole person, so they wouldn't be the same if this little matter of crossdressing never exsisted to begin with!)

[Tinkerbell-GG]

" The answer lies in the "for better or worse" part of the deal. (and the tiny little issue of you marry the whole person

But that's the problem - most wives never meet the 'whole person' until many years later. If they had, they might have made the decision not to continue the relationship and spared everyone this heartache. Read the thread in Loved Ones asking GGs if they'd have married their H if they'd known all the facts about his crossdressing. Most, including myself, said no.

So are we wives really selfish? Or did we just never get the opportunity to choose the spouse and life we really wanted? That's an incredibly confronting thing to realise after many years of marriage. I don't know much about Leigh's situation, but if she came out to her wife after many years, then her wife's identity must be shattered. As now is Leigh's, by permanently purging this side of herself.

There are no winners here :( But, as Sara Jessica pointed out, full honesty at the very start of a relationship usually prevents this situation.

[PaulaQ]

But that's the problem - most wives never meet the 'whole person' until many years later. If they had, they might have made the decision not to continue the relationship and spared everyone this heartache. Read the thread in Loved Ones asking GGs if they'd have married their H if they'd known all the facts about his crossdressing. Most, including myself, said no.

And yet you wonder why so many of us aren't honest. Of course we lie - we get rejected when we don't. And not just in relationships, there is so much social stigma and prejudice against transgender individuals that lying is self-preservation. And it isn't as if most of us like or want this side of ourselves - we don't even accept it ourselves in many cases. How can we, when the whole world tells us we're wrong?


Or did we just never get the opportunity to choose the spouse and life we really wanted?

Oh, so the trans* person gets to do that? Because I never signed up for what I'm going through! Honey, nobody gets a guaranteed outcome in this life. Not you, not me, not anyone. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

[Bria]

To say that there are no winners here I think is not quite accurate. Leigh and her wife are both winners in my mind, as I see the preservation of their relationship as a win-win. Thats not to say that there were no cost to both sides. Comprmise means that neither side gets all that they want, but if they both get most of what the want, then its win-win.

And I think that that is what they got.

My 2 cents!

Hugs Bria

[AKADonna]

Leigh,

This very week, I find myself in a situation very similar to yours. I, too, have made the tough decision to value my marriage of more than 29 years and to quit dressing fully as Donna! My wife has been accepting about me discretely wearing bra and panties under my male clothes and that seemed to satisfy most of those feminine urges, so I have stored away all of the wigs, makeup, shoes and outer clothes at a remote location and now only do the underdressing thing as a kind of a compromise. I feel pretty certain that I can live with that and, if I ever start to think about dressing again, I'll pull out the close up photo of Donna as confirmation that I don't pass at all and she is just a fantasy anyway!

The reality of a happy marriage and family trumps this fantasy any day!
Good luck to you and your wife as you move forward.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Leigh, You surely had to make a tough decision , I admire your choice and I sure hope that it works out for you.

[Jessica86]

Many here don't understand my views, or those of your wife.

I'm one of those people. I don't understand. There is no reason for someone to be "physically sick" over something like this if you ask me. It is not wrong according to the Bible, unless you are "dressing of the opposite gender for worship of a false idol," and that seems to be the number one argument. "It's wrong." Who says it is? The Bible says tattoos are wrong. Males with pierced ears. Homosexuality. I see that every time I turn around. It seems most who pass judgment unto others have other issues that are "wrong." We all do. If we were all perfect, we would never have to ask our supreme being...whoever or whatever you believe in...for help in life.

Being "twisted physically sick" over crossdressing seems like I can tell my wife to put her make up on, because without it, her appearance makes me physically sick. See? That's not right at all. It isn't even right to THINK that way if you ask me. If you love someone, you will do whatever to make it work. I could have left my wife when she went legally blind. I didn't. Looking at her with just one eye...was NEVER sickening for me. I love her, and it doesn't matter to me how she looks at ALL.

You should pick up a book on sexual fetishes at some time. People eat chalk, toilet paper, have sex with KNIVES/CUTTING, suffocation, brutality, and many other weird things. People still find happiness in relationships with THESE crazy ideas. I don't get how a behavior such as dressing causes divorce when there are so many other things people do that are true head scratchers...and much more disgusting...because it is their nature to be disgusting for a purpose.

My thoughts are women think of leaving men who crossdress because he has a "problem." So...you want to leave someone with a "problem" in search of someone who has no problems? Find someone who says they have no problems, and I will show you a liar.

[Sara Jessica]

It is really not all that hard to understand the SO POV. Right or wrong, for better or worse, we live in a world that is constructed around a gender binary. It is what it is.

Little girls typically dream of marrying their Prince Charming when they grow up, not PRINCESS CHARMING.

We are good people. We may or may not have "issues". But how can you fault a single woman who marries while utterly in the dark about an important essence of their spouse?

Praise goes to the SO who finds it in herself to land on a spectrum between tolerate and accept. But at the same time, no scorn should be heaped onto the woman who just cannot get her head around this thing of ours when it wasn't presented prior to marriage.

[Michelle789]

And yet you wonder why so many of us aren't honest. Of course we lie - we get rejected when we don't.

Not only do we lie about CDing or being TS, but we lie about everything that is about our authentic self. We lie about our political beliefs, our religious beliefs, our activities we like, and even about our families or friends. We sacrifice things that give us pleasure or comfort, changing religions, sacrificing religion, or joining religion, to make someone else happy. Or hobbies we like, or sports, or the color of the clothes we wear. We lie and create false personas to make other people happy.

It isn't just restricted to spouses or S.O. We lie about all of the above things, including CDing or being TS, to everyone in our lives. Our families, work, friends, neighbors.

We lie and create false personas because we're afraid either of downright rejection, or that someone will try to fight us or pressure us into pleasing them. Even when an S.O. or family member doesn't reject us, they often fight us, pressure us, or play mind games on us, until we bend our will to please them.

We are told to accept our non CD/TS accepting S.O.s, friends, and family members as they are. We are told to accept S.O.s, friends, and family members who fight us, pressure us, or play mind games on us - we are told to accept them as they are. But how come we have to accept them as they are, but they can't accept us as they are? Why do I have to accept a person who is difficult, domineering, and pressures me to living in a geographic location that I don't want to, or fights me on who I can be friends with, or fights me on CDing, but they can't accept the fact that I live in California, or who I am friends with, or that I am a CD or a TS?

It seems that acceptance should be a two way street, but it isn't, especially when it comes to CDing or being TS. Even outside of CD/TS issues, acceptance often works only in one direction with one person getting what they want 90% of the time, and the other getting what I want only 10% of the time. When the more dominant partner, the one who gets what they want 90% of the time, doesn't get his/her way, he/she cries that the submissive partner (the one who gets their way only 10% of the time) is being unfair and controlling.



We who cross-dress can be a fairly selfish lot. We readily and happily choose ourselves over our spouses as if it were a fundamental human right. We don't think about her heart and her dreams and her life and her needs.


Really, Emi? It is selfish to be yourself? Since when? Ah, when people in this world say "just be yourself" they really mean "just be what society says you should be" or "just be what the script says you should be". These kind of problems with CDing occur because society says that anything that deviates outside the gender binary box is wrong, and because we are assigned family members that who have no control over, and it is assumed that all members of a family must be the same.



My "right" to be "me" ended when I turned into part of "we."


Why do you have to end your right to be you, but your wife doesn't have to end her right to be her? It's a double standard.


My thoughts are women think of leaving men who crossdress because he has a "problem." So...you want to leave someone with a "problem" in search of someone who has no problems? Find someone who says they have no problems, and I will show you a liar.

Amen to that. To the woman who wants to leave a CDing husband who doesn't drink or drinks moderately and is a responsible man who provides for the family and doesn't cause drama, would you rather have a non CDing husband who is a raging alcoholic who beats you every day and causes you to have the cops over your house, and fails to provide for you because he drinks away all his money, and for that matter can't keep a job because he drinks?

Edit: Lying catches up with you

We lie because we're afraid of what other people are going to think. They might reject us, yell at us, physically fight us, belittle us, laugh at us, guilt trip us, play passive aggressive mind games on us, cold shoulder us, talk us out of what we're doing, spread rumors about us, fire us. But in the end of the day, our lies always catch up with us. Guaranteed.

We live in a world where lying is a survival tool. But it is a short term gain survival tool. It gets you what you want, and sometimes what you need, for the short term. In the long run, lying always fails. When it comes to CDing, if you lie to your spouse, either you will be completely miserable not CDing at all, or you can CD in the closet and eventually she'll find out, or you'll be miserable worrying that she's going to find out. If you're a TS and need to transition, than not transitioning carries the same risk where the lie of pretending to be a man catches up with you.

This applies to everything we lie about in life. Lying might help us in the short term, but it is guaranteed to get catch up with you in the long term. Being honest might hurt you in the short term, but in the long term it is always better to be honest and tell the truth, including being honest with yourself.

Short term gain = long term suffering
Short term suffering = long term gain

[NicoleScott]

We're talking CDing here, not TS-ing.

That's what I thought, but it seems that to some there is no difference between a wife whose husband likes to crossdress in private occasionally and a wife whose husband is a woman in a man's body. The thread is about crossdressing, or more accurately, a man who crossdresses.

[Teresa]

Jessica at the end of your first paragraph it should have ended with, " Let him without sin cast the first stone ", I don't usually make quotes but I agree with your reasoning !

Michelle I posted a thread about honesty in Loved Ones section, I still wish I could be totally honest, the feeling of guilt after so many years is tiring and unnecessary !

[PaulaQ]

That's what I thought, but it seems that to some there is no difference between a wife whose husband likes to crossdress in private occasionally and a wife whose husband is a woman in a man's body. The thread is about crossdressing, or more accurately, a man who crossdresses.

Do you think my experience crossdressing before I finally admitted to myself that I was transgender, and needed to transition, was substantively different than so many others here have experienced? Life in the closet - fear of discovery, the awful guilt, the self-loathing over a compulsion I could not shake?

Do you think the rejection from my wife, the revulsion she felt, was any different than so many here experience?

If you feel my experience is somehow invalid in this context, please elaborate. I'd love to hear why, pre-transition, I was any different than so many others here.

I notice that so many here are quick to martyr themselves - sacrificing their ability to express a part of themselves to assuage their spouse's discomfort. Ultimately, how fair is that? How easy is it to feel good about yourself when everyone in the world, including your beloved wife, tells you that you are a freak?

[NicoleScott]

Do you think my experience crossdressing before I finally admitted to myself that I was transgender, and needed to transition, was substantively different than so many others here have experienced? Life in the closet - fear of discovery, the awful guilt, the self-loathing over a compulsion I could not shake?

Do you think the rejection from my wife, the revulsion she felt, was any different than so many here experience?

OK, you asked honest questions, and here are my honest answers:

1) You didn't become TS the day you admitted it to yourself. You may have thought you were a crossdresser (because you crossdressed) but your perspective was always that of a TS, you just didn't know it. The perspective of a crossdresser (you know, JUST a crossdresser) is different, but with some similarities. Some crossdressers experience fear of discovery (I did), guilt (a little), and self-loathing (no), but I never hated my maleness nor wanted to be a woman. So yes, I think a wife would be more freaked out by the discovery that her husband is a TS than if her husband was "just" a crossdresser. Somehow the thread topic got expanded from crossdressing to all flavors of transgenderism, and I was pointing that out, not minimizing the experiences of TS's.

2) A wife's revulsion may be different, or not depending on what she knows and any prejudices she may have. Some don't see any difference (nor want to).

Your experience is not invalid, just off topic in my opinion.

[Rachael Leigh]

Since I'm not a member at the website, I can't comment but I really want to. So here's what I would say and I really hope you copy and paste it in the thread:
______________________________

Hi, I'm 'the wife' from the start of this chain. I've read all the responses up until this point and would like to put my perspective on this if y'all will allow me to do so.

First of all, thanks to my husband for being willing to post this since I'm not a member (just a lurker, LOL) and my apologies to him as this will not necessarily be 'pretty' but it will be honest. I've emailed this to him and asked him to copy and paste it in this thread.

Yes, we've been married for 32 years. Someone in this chain said "Leigh" is more committed to the marriage than "the wife" is, saying that I'd throw 32 years of marriage down the drain because of some clothes. I'm a little upset that my husband did not come to my defense at this statement but then it doesn't surprise me. No. I do not like the clothes. Yes. I want a man who is my husband. I do not want a 'wife' or a 'girl friend'. While I did indeed know that he occasionally did something with clothes before we got married, it was never explained that this was a lifestyle that he preferred. I was an innocent Christian girl when we got engaged and only saw this as an option for a 'cold shower' since we chose not to be sexually active. It took about 10 minutes of being married to find out that sexual intimacy was never going to be a priority for my husband. Unlike many women, I desired an active sex life with my husband...it didn't exist. I said my vows before God and hold my commitment to God first and to my husband second...so I stayed and worked hard to make a marriage between a man and a woman.

I know y'all say there's nothing in the Bible about this. What is in the Bible is that Wives are to honor and respect their husbands...Something very hard for a wife to do when the husband isn't happy unless presenting as a woman (or presenting in a secondary 'fetish' that, at least at this time, seems to be under control so not interfering with our relationship) and is selfish in every aspect of life not just in this one area of clothes. The Bible also says that Husbands are to LOVE their wives as Christ loved the Church and GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR HER! . I can not think of many things that my husband has 'given up' for me. And don't say that this recent 'purge' was him giving things up for me...clothes are already back in our home.

Throughout our 32 year marriage, I operated pretty much as a single Mom because I supported my husband pursuing the career he wanted and that meant he worked nights and weekends...which he loved because while he was home alone during the mornings while the child and I were at school and work, respectively, he was free to satisfy himself with the clothes and stuff and he never demonstrated a 'need' for me to be there for him in a relationship sense. Because his career was satisfying to him but not financially rewarding, I continually worked to improve my career status to allow us to live where he wanted to live (moving often with his job and leaving jobs I loved in the process) and to have the things he wanted to have and to travel the places he wanted to go. He is lucky because I am low maintenance and I don't have expensive make-up, expensive clothes, expensive purses, expensive jewelry, or expensive shoes. He has very rarely pursued me sexually even though I have strong needs and desire in that area...and yet, he is the only person I have ever had sex with. I remained in the marriage and remained faithful even though there was no intimacy due to, yes, his pure selfishness.

SO I'm pretty sure, even with this brief snapshot of our 32 year marriage, you can agree that I've been extremely committed to this marriage and I have done more that most other biological women would have done to keep the marriage together.

As for what our life was like over the last year, he made it very clear that the only way he would be happy was to be the 'woman' in my life...which as a biological woman, I'm not looking for. He had gone from annoyingly dressing now and then to, fully transforming and wanting to be that way 24/7 but knowing that in this 'relationship' he could not do that. My reputation is very important to me and we live in a very conservative area with family in the area. In spite of my pleading with him to 'respect' my wishes, and with the help of the 'encouragement' of the people on this site. he had started leaving the house in full drag from wig to dress shoes. Him not going out is very important to me and yet he did it more and more ... so please tell me, who is 'more committed' to this marriage?

He had asked me to look at it as a hobby over and over...again because that's what y'all taught him to say. And he repeatedly referred to those of you on this site that claim to have wives that let y'all have matching sleepwear with them. SO....I had started trying to do that, yeah because, how was it you said it?...Yeah, because I'm not 'committed' to the marriage. So before an out of town trip, I bought us matching sleepwear. It wasn't frilly. I couldn't go that far at the time. And during that trip, we shopped in the girls section, yep, just for him. We didn't buy me anything on that trip. Of course not! I really don't know how you get deeper and deeper into this. But I had found that no matter how much I accepted in the name of keeping the peace and, yep, showing my 'commitment' to this marriage, it just seemed that he went to another deeper level. Being that he already had a full wardrobe with every kind of make up. shoes, jewelry, wigs...it honestly scared me to think what he was going to do next.

And for clarification...the purge he did ... I did NOT ask him to do that. I had freed him to be whoever/whatever he wanted to be. But no...I did not and can not guarantee that I would be able to stay in a relationship where that's who he needed to be. Not just because of the clothes. It's the whole package...he constantly violated my trust...'us' was never a priority for him...I feel used as just a financial means..."MY" needs are never considered unless it's in a manipulative way to get to what he wants.

Oh, and we...talk...all....the...time...and...very...openl y!

If you have stuck with me through this long post, please let me leave you with this...If you have a wife who is still married to you and shows even a small hint of being willing to make the marriage work, take inventory of the entire relationship. Sure, she probably does hate that you CD. And you probably can't change that. But if she, like me, is ready to let you go to do and be who you think you must be, even if that means you'll no longer be married, the roots of the problem probably go much deeper than just a pair of underwear or ladies shorts. She has "done without' so much that she also "needs" for so long, consider "doing without" for a defined period of time and focusing all that emotion and energy on building something special with the bride you chose.

Hugs to you all!
"The Wife"

[sandra-leigh]

But if she, like me, is ready to let you go to do and be who you think you must be, even if that means you'll no longer be married, the roots of the problem probably go much deeper than just a pair of underwear or ladies shorts. She has "done without' so much that she also "needs" for so long, consider "doing without" for a defined period of time and focusing all that emotion and energy on building something special with the bride you chose.

Without at all meaning to dismiss the concerns expressed in that post, in some relationships, the CD/TG/TS might have been the one who was putting a lot of effort into keeping the relationship together. (You can read my back postings if you want to see an example.)

[mechamoose]

Not to be too trite, but..


“If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was, and always will be yours. If it never returns, it was never yours to begin with.”

― Sherrilyn Kenyon, Unleash the Night

I think there is a difference between closing a door and recognizing that your partner is walking a path that you can't follow.

Some would view it as abandonment, some as opening the birdcage door.

Think about that *really*hard* before you pass judgement.

<3

- MM

[Frédérique]

I will most likely not build my wardrobe in the way it was and will mostly just be happy in my panties and sometime my night wear but for me I had to take a breath and realize I was hurting my wife too much and being extremely selfish. Many here won't understand and that's ok but it was my decision as difficult as it was.

Oh, I understand – well done! :clap:

[Rachael Leigh]

Just to clarify the last post it's an email my wife sent me to share with you all and I had no problem with it so you can get her very good perspective

[Angie G]

I wish you good like with your down sizng Leigh. You really must love your wife and I hope it works for you girl.:hugs:
Angie

[Badwolf]

Pink fog is like a virus and doesn't truly go away for most of us, but neither should you allow the person you care about walk away until you know for sure.

Good Luck and much love!

[Coping2014]

I get this, as my first wife could not stay married to a crossdrresser. Still, my initial reaction to LeighR's post is that Leigh is a lot more committed to the marriage than the wife. Thirty-two year marriage down the drain because of some clothes.


Please don't simplify it to just being about clothes - if it was just about an article of clothing then you yourself wouldn't have such an issue of this either. It is all much more than that at least in my mind. And to diminish the whole lifestyle down to 'its just clothes' really hurts my feelings and seems to me you think me as a SO of a CD that I'm petty and ridiculous. I don't think I'm being that way and in my situation for 20 years it was never an issue and out of the blue I'm just suppose to be OH ok your not who you represented yourself as but because I took vows I should just set that aside? The vows to mean aren't what mean something it's the fact that I love him and he is my best friend that I'm willing to try to navigate through this whole thing.

Sorry - it struck a cord with me and I had to say something. Please don't trivialize the issue on either side by saying this is just about clothes.

Thanks for listening,

Coping2014

[Lidea]

We who cross-dress can be a fairly selfish lot. We readily and happily choose ourselves over our spouses as if it were a fundamental human right. We don't think about her heart and her dreams and her life and her needs. We are so overcome by our desire that we forget that we made a promise. My "right" to be "me" ended when I turned into part of "we."
No
If I am not willing to suffer for the sake of the woman I married, she does not deserve me for a husband and I certainly don't deserve her as a wife.

Every time I put on my makeup and pretty things, I know I am doing so only by the grace of my wife who has so graciously given me this privilege. She owed me none of this. No spouse owes their partner the "right" of self-interest.

Wow wow wow.
All I can say to this is 'hats off to you'
Such nice and decent words.

[mechamoose]

"To thine own self be true" and Act 2 Scene 2 - Pelonius - Hamlet