Why do you need us??

[Tinkerbell-GG]

I'm not asking this so much on a personal level, but on a general level for all GG's who find themselves in a relationship with a crossdresser who eventually meet the crossdresser's 'femme' side and wonder where they fit in. Yes, many will wonder this and many will fret about the answer. Why do you need us when you have a ready made wife inside you??

Given how complicated the relationship with a GG is for you all, it doesn't seem like GG/CD relationships fare very well. They can, but there's an awful lot of compromising involved. Often, the compromising means putting aside something important and innate to accommodate the spouse. Do other marriages compromise this much?

So, as the annoying girl that I'm am :) I have to ask....

WHY do you need us??

[Marcelle]

Hi Tink . . . such thought provoking questions so early in the morning. I am up for my morning run . . . what is your excuse? :):heehee:

I can only answer from my own circumstances which may be different from others. I was involved with my lovely wife long before Isha every made her appearance so my relationship with my wife is far stronger than my relationship with Isha (if there is such a thing). Isha is part of who I am. I will refer to her as her, my girl side, en femme, and whatnot but in the end she is still me (a guy, a dude, a bloke, a man) who just dresses prettier. My wife is my soul mate, my light, my love and luckily she embraces Isha as part of me. Don't get me wrong we are not GFs we are BFs because we share regardless of how I dress. Isha is not my concept of a wife, my wife is my wife . . . hence the reason why Isha will never darken the nuptial bed ;).

So . . . I need my wife because I love her unconditionally as she loves me. Regardless of how I am dressed she is my grounding (she keeps that Alpha male temper of mine in check :)), she shares her life with me and I share mine with her, she understands me only the way someone close can, she has seen me through some very dark times (before anyone gets confused I am talking about combat related issues) and has always been there for me. To be honest, I don't know where I would be without her in my life.

Hugs

Isha

[Sc0rp10N]

This one's easy... You are everything to us. You KNOW us. You LOVE us. We want you to know and love every aspect of our being. Same with any relationship, but in this case, its a vulnerability that only those closest to us could be trusted with and we want your trust and acceptance. Its so hard to build a relationship. We don't want to have to do it all over again. We need that one person we've chosen to be our partner. And it doesn't hurt, in the case of cd-Ing, that you know some things about how to look good! :-D

[Donnagirl]

Tinkerbell,

I'm a little purplexed by your question... For me, I'm 'en femme' for a few short hours in any given month. Outside of that I'm a macho, hardworking, loving, father and husband. I have exactly the wants and needs of a loving husband. I just have thus small part of me that needs to surface every now and then...

For those who transition, I can understand how you may harbour such an opinion, but I still think it lacks a little compassion. We are a in need of companionship, want to love and be loved, to care for someone.

I think I can come close to understanding a small part of how you must feel. I saw so much of it in my SO. Because I dress I don't love her less, because of her compassion, because of her understanding love her more. I would do everything for her and anything to protect her.

I know others have offered similarities to activities that impact on relationships, but I maintain that ours is the hardest to accept. My SO still fears being embarrassed if I'm caught out. She feared, for so long that this was in some way her fault, I was making up for something she was failing at, she was not enough 'woman' for me. I'm just grateful she understands a little more and is prepared to accept this into our relationship.

I need her and love her as any husband should...

[Tinkerbell-GG]

but I still think it lacks a little compassion. We are a in need of companionship, want to love and be loved, to care for someone.


Actually, the question is general but entirely compassionate. I've been a part of a few wives groups over the years as I've known of my H's dressing for some time, as everyone knows. I finally came here because, clearly, these groups weren't helping me as I'd reached the point of seeking separation from my H - in large part because of these unanswered questions we GG's ask each other. Can you imagine the answers we give each other? Yep, they're not crossdresser friendly. They're not even reality most of the time. They're actually harmful in so many ways and many wives feel more confused and uncomfortable after talking to each other than keeping this to themselves. I suspect marriages are destroyed because of our conversations and it makes me sad. Knowledge is power and we really don't hear the truth of all this :(

So, what you and Isha and Scorpion have written here has already lightened the hearts of many anonymous GG's reading here. I really expect there are many. So I try to ask the questions I know they're too afraid to ask.

I want this to be easier for them than it was for me.

[Beverley Sims]

Tinkerbell,
For a loving relationship and support for "each other".

[KaylaRoxx]

So what are you asking exactly? Why does a man need a woman in his life? Are you implying that because we like to dress up we dont need love and companionship? by "making compromises" are you saying that a woman could not love a CDer? This post actually kind of upset me and put me into that frame of mind of "maybe even if she says she loves me she doesnt. Maybe shes lying about liking my crossdressing". We need a girlfriend or a wife (or boyfriend if thats your thing, it isnt for me but i know it is for some) for the same reason anyone does. and having a gf that not only knows i crossdress but actually likes it has made my life so much better. I cant think of any "compromises" that have had to be nade because of it, even if im sure there are. In fact if i had never started dating the girl i am nowid have never gotten over some very bad things that hapoened to me, and i wouldnt even be posting here, i would still be in a miserable slump trying to deny the fact i like crossdressing.

[Emi_]

In any real and serious relationship there is discovery about each other. There are challenges, victories, disappointments, and sacrifices. This is all part of becoming a part of each other. You grow together, learning and communicating and compromising. Compromise is a dirty word and a treacherous concept anymore however.

There is a nasty trend of believing that we, as individuals, are the most important thing. That is not true in a committed relationship. True love is surrendering your selfish interests for the interests of the pair you are with your partner. It's a negotiation and all sides give something. And, yes, sometimes partners can't see eye-to-eye and this is where the hard decisions must be made about what we really love.

[Andy66]

Why do you need us when you have a ready made wife inside you??

I hope you dont mind if I throw in my two cents. I think this may be where your logic gets faulty. I dont think most people think of themselves as their own spouse, regardless of their gender. We still crave that very special someone who we can love and trust more than anyone else in the world. Its like that saying, no man is an island. Trying to be your own spouse sounds kind of like talking to yourself instead of sharing ideas with a friend. You may never disagree with yourself (hopefully), but you will never get anything good out of talking to yourself either.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Andy66, I agree. BUT, many wives of crossdressers feel threatened and even feel like their place has been taken by their H's femme side. It sounds illogical, I know - but so do many of the threads here where members speak in third person and treat their crossdressing like a separate personality. Anyway, there are many wives out there thinking this. I don't come up with this stuff because I'm bored. What I'm surprised about is that this is something the members here didn't realise. Seriously?!? You never thought that dressing like a woman might make the woman in your life feel insecure, or even obsolete?

And KaylaRoxx, I have no idea why you'd feel so badly about what I wrote. Yes, GG's do think this stuff - I won't downplay how many or how often but this site is not a true reflection on GG perspective, that's all I'm saying. That said, the problems we face only happen when the crossdresser won't acknowledge them. If you know of these issues from the start, if you understand our insecurities and what we worry about, surely your relationship will thrive?? And surely then, we won't need to ask why you need us? We will just know that you do :)

[Kate Simmons]

I think the simplest response in my mind is that we need you because you are you. Nothing, and I mean nothing can take the place of a loving and caring woman, not even ourselves.:battingeyelashes::)

[Mollyanne]

It appears to me that the more intense of the question(s) the answer(s) become more confused. The human is in need of another human. This goes for any gender or blended genders. If you are looking for a simple answer there isn't any. The human equation is as complex as any.

Molly

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Tink, It can be lonely when we can't share with the one that we love.

[Kate T]

Because when she smiles the world fades into the background.
Because when she talks I'm not listening to anything else.
Because when she holds me I want time to stop.
Because when she hurts I will tear down mountains to make her happy.
Because when she's not there something is missing and I can't work out what it is.
Because I cannot imagine what the world would be like without her.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

I'll give a more logical and cold hearted answer/analogy. There is no choice in me being trans, it's just how things are, I could not stop if I wanted, and even if the magic pill existed I would not stop. The same with my wife. There was never a choice once I met her. I was falling in love with her, and yes I got cold feet in the final week just before our marriage date. In the end there was no choice in going through with the cold feet scenario. My love/attraction to her was and is a permanent part of me that will never go away. Same with the trans side as well. Even going with my girl side that side needs a companion, mate, lover, friend etc. Those needs are not going to be filled and cannot filled by my male side and vice versa. Also both sides are incapable, too disorganized, sloppy, lazy etc to take care of each other, and they both need the wife to keep them in line, go to the doctor, clean up, make the bed, watch spending, not burn the house down cooking, take car of the cat's, bum clothes from etc.:D

[flatlander_48]

Given how complicated the relationship with a GG is for you all, it doesn't seem like GG/CD relationships fare very well.

It is hard to extrapolate what you see here to the rest of the world. There are success stories here and others that go BANG in the worst way at the worst time. There are LOTS of crossdressers out there and we are just a subset of that. How representative are we? I don't think anyone knows. To the extent that what we've seen here is representative, MANY relationships are improved and deepened due to the fact that the coming out process can break down the impenetrable wall that we often build around ourselves. Hiding and being secretive takes its toll.


They can, but there's an awful lot of compromising involved. Often, the compromising means putting aside something important and innate to accommodate the spouse. Do other marriages compromise this much?

The only compromise that I can think of is what is agreed upon going forward. Dress at home (alone or with the partner present), dress only outside the home (maybe in another town), etc. etc. However, to me that doesn't seem to require a compromise to the basic relationship. My guess is that in most cases our male selves remain as they were.

[Teresa]

Tinkerbell as most CDers are hetro, putting aside the CDing we still want to form a relationship, make a home and have a family we don't lose the ability to love someone !
My CDing is closely linked to wanting to share with a GG and it's sexual ! Guiltily I sometimes think was I looking for a partner or a victim ? Maybe I just think that because I possibly married the wrong person ! Right or wrong it's lasted forty years, apart from the CDing we make a good team!
The other aspect is a CDer may think marriage will take away the need to dress, and for a while perhaps it does. Alternatively seeing your partner's clothes may awaken something you thought had gone away.
It takes a lot for an average guy to admit he wears women's clothes, he has a mountain of guilt and shame to contend with ! We all know it's not the partners fault but surely the guy underneath is worth saving and deserves some help and understanding.

[CarlaWestin]

I heard something a long time ago that just stuck. "You can do anything you want in life, you just can't do it alone." True or not? I'm not sure. I've been in some kind of relationship since kindergarten. My wife hates my crossdressing and hints that I'm just damaged and getting weirder by the day. But, we're inseparable, connected at the heart. I would just enjoy being my female persona around the house. In my opinion, Carla is a whole lot more interesting than Charles. At least to look at.

PS. I certainly agree with everything Teresa just posted.

[Connie D50]

Tinkerbell I read your post and I have to ask you. Is your plan to make all of us as unhappy as you seam to be. Why do you stay in your relationship your not happy, just go back and read all of your post. Do you want to stop all women to fall for Cd'ers do you want all wifes to be as unhappy as your are??? Your plan won't work here I think people come here for help and support your words won't chance my way of thinking. Go find real love again I can only base it on your post you must not have it now. Go find it make yourself happy. Connie

[Renee Elise]

Tink, the love, companionship and affection (not to mention sexy time lol) a good girl can offer is simply wonderful. It's very different from the feelings I get when dressing and one shouldn't be thought of as a substitute for the other. When I'm with a girl I like being in the masculine, dominant role and being complemented by her feminine wiles ;). The guy under the makeup still has a special place in his heart for that special lady and it cannot be filled simply by donning sexy clothes.

[AnnieMac]

Tinkerbell-GG, I totally get your point about a GG spouse perhaps feeling threatened by a husband's female personality, like there is this third person in the relationship now. I have often thought about that, and how that could be the case. Your thread struck an idea with me that I have been recently thinking about. That is, if a wife of a CD is so accepting of that, and is willing to experiment romantically and sexually, wouldn't just be better to experience that with another real GG instead of with us fake girls? What I think I'm saying is it might be easier and more emotionally rewarding to have a real lesbian relationship, than to be a wife of a CD. I dunno if I am correct about that but it's crossed my mind lately. I think what I am saying is "Why do you need US?

I honestly think CD-ing is kind of a selfish activity. It seems so singular, and can cause so many problems. At least in my case. So I guess that's why I am still a secret CDer, and don't want to burden my family with anything like that. Not fair to my wife I supposed to keep a secret like that, but healthier for everyone in my situation in the long run. So I'll deal with the consequences if I ever get found out. I'm not all that obsessed with it anyway, it's just kind of fun for me. But dang girl, I do love the shoes and the sexy dresses!

Although this forum does give everyone a wonderful opportunity to open up and speak their minds, I also think it gives cross dressers a false sense of security that it is more normal and accepted than it really is. I like your posts Tinkerbell-GG. You are not afraid to honestly say what's on your mind and freely interact with us CD oddballs :)

[Judith96a]

Why do you need us when you have a ready made wife inside you??

Can't speak for anyone else but... I don't (have a ready made wife inside me)! When I was single I was just as lonely, insecure, useless etc as any other guy, maybe more so!

[Ressie]

One can't have a relationship with their self can they? I've been somewhat happily single going on 10 years. Is being truly happy dependant on living with and being in love with a GG? NO, one must be happy with their own self first. The only relationship I'm interested in is where both parties support each other's proclivities. If those proclivities become obessions (CDing for example) or are of little interest to the spouse, both will likely be happier with somoneone else or single.

My female side is kind of a surrogate but it certainly can't take the place of a soft, warm, understanding, fun and uplifting female.

[BeckyAnderson]

That's a very good question Tink. I want and have a need for a lifelong, loving relationship, we've been married for 44 years (my wife found out about and met Becky 11 years ago). I need to have children and Grandchildren and the love and warmth they bring. I need to have one very special friend. I need someone to help me get through life, both in good times and bad. Someone to laugh and cry with. I just can't imagine what it would be like to go through life without my wife. My only desire if for her to better understand this side of me. It's really sad and, at times, so frustrating when the one's I need the most (wife and family) for support and understanding are not there for me. In all the years since her discovery of my feminine side NONE of her concerns and fears have come true. I'm still the same loving, caring, hard working and fun-loving husband she married with one exception......there is a huge empty and very lonely spot in my life when I dress.

[Teresa]

Becky I so agree with you and I'm sure you speak for many others !
I've only just come to realise and understand much more in the six months I've been a member after all the years of being alone with it !
I just want to share how good it now makes me feel with my wife and family !

[Paula_Femme]

WHY do you need us??

The same reason anyone, straight/gay/bi/fluid/undecided, needs a life partner... love, companionship, affection, commitment, caring, support, sexy-times... children?!

Just because I like to play dress-up doesn't change or cancel-out these most fundamental of human needs.

[Felicia Dee]

ALL relationships are complicated Tink, whether or not with a Cder.

Being in a marriage is about loving the person you have chosen to commit yourself to. The WHOLE person, not PART of the person or some IDEA of the person -- the whole and ACTUAL person. “For better or worse,” that's what that means.

My SO and I have been together for 11 years now, and I love her for all her craziness and quirks, just as she loves me for mine – femme side included. We meet each other halfway on ALL things and work together towards making each other happy as individuals as well as within the life we're building together by keeping an active, open line of communication (full disclosure). We talk about everything and are thoughtful towards each others feelings, needs and yes – desires, and that just brings us closer together.

That honest closeness is “why,” BTW.

[suchacutie]

OMG...My wife is my life. We just celebrated 41 years together, the last 9 years with Tina as a part of the mix. My wife is not jealous of Tina, except for Tina's legs. Then again, Tina has much to be jealous about so it balances out :-).

My wife was instrumental in identifying Tina and then taught her 'how to be a girl'. Tina IS a separate personality and that's a part of what fascinates both of us about Tina. Literally, there would have never been Tina withoutthe insight and love of my wife.

The idea that Tina could in any way take the place of my wonderful wife is, well, absurd, in my perspective. My wife says Tina is 'sweet' and they enjoy their time together. My wife us constantly talking to Tina about her ideas and feelings because she (and me too) is fascinated about this part of me.

Tina is a part of my self, but my wife is my companion, my friend, my confidant, and my love. We are sitting next to each other as I write this. I'll end as it's my turn to get us both fresh cups of coffee.

[Princess Grandpa]

Once again I am faced with how fortunate I am. My wife of 30 years had no problem at all accepting this in me once it came out. In many ways it has drastically improved our relationship. I understand things today that totally eluded me just a year ago. It has not harmed our relationship even slightly. Fortunately she is as broken as I am and able to love me as I am.

Just because I need to cross dress doesn't mean I don't need to feel love and intimacy. Do you truly believe because we embrace/have this softer side we should be happy going through life alone? Do we not need love or not deserve love? I understand not everyone can just accept what's going on but even if you hate this part of us how could you possibly believe we don't still want/need the most basic of human needs; to be loved.

This is who I am. It's part of me. I spent most of my life hiding from that fact. If my wife suddenly came forward and told me she tried to accept this but can't, I would do whatever it took to keep my marriage including purging and returning to my closet and denial. As time goes by the depression will set in. Eventually leaving me so depressed I start feeling suicidal.

Yes we need you! We also need this. Given a choice most of us would gladly just give it up and live a normal life if that were possible. Is it really better to live with a man who is sad and repressing his true self for your happiness than one who accepts and embraces the weird parts of himself?

Hug
Rita

[Jenniferathome]

Tink,

We are NOT a wife. We are NOT a woman. We are straight men who, like almost all straight men, have a need to partner with a woman. While cross dressing is both weird and unique, it has no bearing on the need for human relationships.

Every marriage has compromises. Some married people hate each other but are "married" for kids, social status, habit, who knows. People are married under far worse circumstances than cross dressing.

[Teresa]

Rita I hope your third paragraph is only suggesting possible scenarios, but please don't jest about it I've been there and it's not where you want to be !!
This is why I'm saying things need to change, I don't want to go down that road again !!
I don't want it to look like blackmail but please accept me as I am or accept I may not be here at all !!

[Daisy41]

I'm not asking this so much on a personal level, but on a general level for all GG's who find themselves in a relationship with a crossdresser who eventually meet the crossdresser's 'femme' side and wonder where they fit in.

I can only speak for myself, but keep in mind that a man does not marry his wife in order to fulfill a "side" of him. My wife compliments me, we are a team. I can exist without her but my quality of life is so much more terrible. My "femme side" isn't so much a side of me, it's a part of me regardless of expression. It would be like saying "my husband knows how to cook so why should I ever cook for him?"


Yes, many will wonder this and many will fret about the answer. Why do you need us when you have a ready made wife inside you??

This is a misconception to think that how one feels or expresses them self is a replacement for other people. Daisy is not a ready made wife, she isn't even a separate person - she is me and I am her and thus I cannot fulfill the role of a wife of myself.


Given how complicated the relationship with a GG is for you all, it doesn't seem like GG/CD relationships fare very well. They can, but there's an awful lot of compromising involved. Often, the compromising means putting aside something important and innate to accommodate the spouse. Do other marriages compromise this much?

I know I am a rarity, my relationship worked out well. Crossdressing has not made anything worse. It's just another thing. I didn't change as a person and my wife knows that expecting me to keep in hidden won't kill it, it just makes me unhappy and why would she ever expect that of me? By the same token, I communicated very openly to her and I set out a vision when I first came out to her. The vision was where I would like to see the relationship end up as regarding the crossdressing. The vision was to see my presentation as male or female to be something that wasn't a big deal but at the same time as something that wouldn't cause hardships nor affect us negatively. We set boundaries - if I did it so much that it was causing issues I'd pull back. I listened to what she had to say and we took it slowly. However, I will say, we communicate a lot and rarely every have issue with each other as it is anyways, regardless of crossdressing, so maybe this is why we worked out so well.



So, as the annoying girl that I'm am :) I have to ask....

WHY do you need us??

I am so glad you came here seeking answers and other view points. I hold firm that crossdressing for a man (or woman) in a relationship can work out, but it takes work from both sides and to compromise in the marriage. From what I've seen, 99% of the time when crossdressing causes issues in a marriage, they're usually stacked on an already weak or rocky foundation or there's other troubles revolving crossdressing (stealing the wife's clothes, being secretive about it, leading a double life, all things that would cause problems out side of gender deviance).

So to answer the root question, why do I need my wife? I needed my wife before I put on a skirt, changing my presentation doesn't change that. Just because my wife can change a tire or mow the lawn wouldn't mean she doesn't need me either. We compliment each other, we are a team, even if our uniforms change.

[Rachael Leigh]

This is a really good question considering my most recent situation, so why do I need my wife and why am I willing to make it work without me having a second wardrobe. I need her because it was her I chose a long time ago not the clothes she was wearing I wanted her for my life long companion and friend.
We had similar interest. While emotionally its hard for me to slow down if not stop dressing I still need my wife because being alone would be awful.

[Alice Torn]

As lifelong single, from a family of singles, who have no relationships, i feel very CURSED. I yearn for a lady friend and mate, all my adult years. Dated in my 30;s a fair amount, but have always been too low income to attract a mate. Then, the dressing really took off at age 56. I have sought many GG's before and after , but have faced my whole life alone. My lady dressed side has kind of become by better half, out of necessity, or desperation, but, it cannot replace a real GG friend. I need a real GG, and Alice is not replacement. I am the same lonely, but accepting of my singleness man i was before i started full dressup. i have found, once i tell a GG about the dressing, they cannot live with it. Life is cruel.

[Jenniferathome]

...I've been a part of a few wives groups over the years ....Can you imagine the answers we give each other? Yep, they're not crossdresser friendly. ...

Tinkerbell, I wanted to address this point although it is not in direct reply to your original post. I CAN imagine what they say. "Get out and get out fast," probably being the kindest. But these women, in all likelihood, do not have cross dressing husbands! They are imagining the stereotype. If they have cross dressing husbands, I suspect the guidance would be much softer and compassionate.

Would you take advice from a women's group on raising children if none of them had children?

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Thank you, everyone :)

I know I ask the annoying questions - the ones your wife is thinking but doesn't dare verbalise. I must be crazy putting them out here - I know that. This forum is for crossdressers to have fun and enjoy their favourite topic and I'm ruining it with all this serious stuff! :eek: But...read back...see how kind and thoughtful your posts are in this thread. The anonymous GG's who read here (and yes, there are many) will read this and feel as I do - that you're a really nice bunch of men!

That's worth the dislike for asking the hard questions.

[Daisy41]

I'm glad you ask the tough questions. It's stuff that needs to be asked and it needs to be addressed, especially if we ever expect to have a more accepting world. Thank YOU for being open and looking for other views and answers!

[Princess Grandpa]

[QUOTE=Teresa;3543200]Rita I hope your third paragraph is only suggesting possible scenarios, but please don't jest about it I've been there and it's not where you want to be !!
This is why I'm saying things need to change, I don't want to go down that road again !!
I don't want it to look like blackmail but please accept me as I am or accept I may not be here at all !![/QUOTE.
Hug. I'm sorry sweetie. I didn't mean to make light of it. You're right! It's not a good place to be. I wasn't suggesting a possible situation. More like a deeply rooted fear. I I doubt at this point I could put Rita away without having serious psychological repercussions. Considering what so many of us here deal with I could have phrased things much better.

Hug
Rita

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Tinkerbell, I wanted to address this point although it is not in direct reply to your original post. I CAN imagine what they say. "Get out and get out fast," probably being the kindest. But these women, in all likelihood, do not have cross dressing husbands! They are imagining the stereotype. If they have cross dressing husbands, I suspect the guidance would be much softer and compassionate.

Would you take advice from a women's group on raising children if none of them had children?

Wow, I'd never thought of this. I've spoken to so many angry women over the years and you're right - are they all actually married to a crossdresser?? I often look at my friends and family and wonder whether they could be so harsh as to just immediately cut someone off for crossdressing. I doubt many would. Certainly, I've made real friends who have been through what I have, and most have done their best to understand, as I have. We're trying to be positive about this. Wouldn't most people??

Wow, I suddenly feel like I'm in Cat Fish. Food for thought.


I'm glad you ask the tough questions. It's stuff that needs to be asked and it needs to be addressed, especially if we ever expect to have a more accepting world. Thank YOU for being open and looking for other views and answers!

Thanks Daisy :) I appreciate every answer I get - even the dislikes. All help me understand that little bit more x

[ReluctantDebutant]

Almost two years ago I decided to quit CDing and this was one of the many reasons. For as thrilling and pleasure inducing CDing was to me it never made me truly happy. I realized that to make me truly happy I needed another person in my life, a woman, to share life with. Someone to care for and be cared by. The "woman" inside cannot do that.

[AnnieMac]

Hey Tinkerbell, you know you're right.. after I thought about it a while. We ARE a really nice bunch of men! With a bit of a twist of course. But when I read the posts, many of them seems so heavy and all caught up in feelings and psyche and such. Shoot, let's not make this more than it is. We just like to play a little "dress-up" once and a while. Now the transgender thing is a different animal with a lot more to it I would say. Cross dressing is well just cross dressing., a little sexual perhaps at times, but just cross dressing.

[CrossJess]

I'm not really qualified to answer this question but this is how I see it, I think crossdressing is something quite special because it's a connection to feeling real appreciation and respect for a better understanding of the ladies and how everything works and in doing that we enter into your world and be a part of it, See the thing is we can only get a slight "demo" of your amazing world through cding, we are still guys at the end of it, we could never bring to life the feel of the real woman you can never clone full fem through Cding, male and female minds are so different, men need woman and it's no good saying men don't because they do lol regardless of what some men might say, even though I'm gay i still have to have the closeness of my Mum and best mate JoJo, JoJo is essentially a girl friend to me and my Mum is the one who made me and brought me on to who I am today, I wouldn't be where I am now if it wasn't for them, the female mind is a beautiful thing! :)

[BeckyAnderson]

Thank you, everyone :)

I know I ask the annoying questions - the ones your wife is thinking but doesn't dare verbalise. I must be crazy putting them out here - I know that. This forum is for crossdressers to have fun and enjoy their favourite topic and I'm ruining it with all this serious stuff! :eek: But...read back...see how kind and thoughtful your posts are in this thread. The anonymous GG's who read here (and yes, there are many) will read this and feel as I do - that you're a really nice bunch of men!

That's worth the dislike for asking the hard questions.

This forum is also a place for education and reinforcement. :-)

[Alice Torn]

You crossdresers who have agreeable, loving wives, don't know how lucky you are. Being alond , single for life has some nice things, but isolation, and no one to talk to, share with, feeling flawed, "that loner guy" , and the added "negative" of being a dresser, is no fun. While all around are couples,and families.

[Kate Simmons]

The fact that you think we are a nice bunch of men makes my day my friend. :thumbsup::)

[Katey888]

Tinks - I know you're probably still saving the tougher question for the weekend, this one is straightforward for me...

As much as this thing we do is self-centred, narcissistic and inexplicable in the strength of how it drives us, it is as nothing compared to the love, sharing, joy and companionship that comes with any even partially successful, man-woman relationship.

All good points made here before mine, just a small emphasis - I am no 'ready-made wife'... I am not even an alternate 'woman'... I gain some peace and contentment from creating a facsimile image of how a female me might look... nothing more. :hugs:

Katey x

[Alice Torn]

Katey 88, With great legs like yours, one wonders!! LOL

[Bria]

Tink, you have not asked an annoying question and are not ruining anyone's fun. I can see why you feel the way that you do, its hard to see inside someone's mind and heart. It is easy to fall into doubt and for your self image to suffer.

The good news is all of the posts to this thread, these are serious answers to your very important question. I had to think about this to be sure in my oun mind that your original premise is not true in my case. I think that Isha put about as well as any although others have been very articulate as well.

Your question ranks right up there with many of the very introspective questions that Isha has posted in the past.

Thanks for bringing up this important thread!!

Hugs Bria

[Stephanie47]

Tinkerbell, when I first lurked on this site it was for the exchange of ideas on clothing. I enjoyed the pictures, and, I still do. But, now my attention is directed to the sub categories such as "Loved One." Sure, many of the posts may seem to be "immature" or "self centered" or just plain enveloped in the "pink fog." But, where else can we express ourselves. Even an accepting or participating wife will say "Enough already!"

I come to this site to assure myself that I am not alone in this universe.

[Lorileah]

Why do you need us when you have a ready made wife inside you??



Wow huge leap there. Why do you assume that the person inside us is "the wife inside"? It is hard to explain to someone looking in, but when you assume we are making a woman in some image, you are wrong for the majority here.

Let me take this is another direction, even IF we were making a wife inside, why would we not want a companion, a partner to be with us. In a way you are subscribing again to the binary. Where one has to be a husband (with specific husband jobs like killing spiders and changing oil) and one has to be a wife (who is afraid or spiders and can't even find the oil plug). This is the kind of fallacy that gays have to contend with, who is the wife, who is the husband (and usually it is a blend not a delineation). I am working right now on not needing anyone although I would like to have someone in my life. But I don't want a stereotypical husband (or wife) I want a friend, a companion and maybe a lover. As they say someone to stand BESIDE me, not follow or lead.

So you believe that TGs need their spouses for being a "wife"? I disagree, we need you because we like to be with you and we love you and we want to spend our lives with you. On an equal and loving playing field. Again, it is hard to explain it from our view, just as hard as to why some SO's find it so abhorrent. Why is the assumption we want to replace the SO? If that was the case we would not hide or sneak, we would just tell you "bye bye". Disassociate the dressing for a minute. Why do we "need" you in any walk of life. SOs seem to think sometimes that we do this just to goad or prod them. We don't.

Why do we need you (SOs)? How about because we love you and want to be with you, even if we cannot be exactly what you expect.

[Wildaboutheels]

Well, maybe I have watched way too many Westerns and read way too many articles in way too many places...

There is this rumor going around, about Pros________ being THE oldest profession out there. The reason is simple. It was around longggggggggg before the internet, porn, men's magazines or the "institution" of marriage.

True or false?^^^^ It's because of men's needs/PROGRAMMING to have as many kids as possible. Programming to have as many Os as possible. Our male brains do not distinguish between solo Os or Os with a partner. The REWARD is the same and the reward for men is supremely easy to achieve unlike most women.

PART of the reason men take GG partners is to have someone ready, willing and able to go to O land with. And of course, coupled with ALL of the other stuff you have already heard. [from so many of the "ladies" here] A woman, just like any male OR same sex partner is a package deal.

At least YOU already realize that most CDrs on the planet are MtF that are visually and O based. Something that no one ever wants to discuss here is that a hubby could turn to/might turn to CDing "more often" because he might find his SO has "let herself go" and I am not referring to the George Strait song either. [has to be one of the greatest songs ever]

While it is true that "most men" won't care "too much" about a woman's change in "proportions", some will. A woman's self esteem is "likely" to change with proportion changes and whatever sex drive she had is likely to go down the tubes. All those smiling life sized FEmale faces [and bodies] on all those magazine covers at the checkout of any grocery store don't help anyone except the magazine publishers of course. Of course there are the tons of Internet porn sites also.

Once any FEmale realizes that CDing for "most" men is simply about a man's basic PROGRAMMING and not his choice, she can decide if she wants to try to become a "better" or more willing/accommodating sex partner in some fashion. Which very well MIGHT lead to less CDing.

At least for the 45ish and under crowd who [for the most part at this Forum] seem to still retain the O itch.

Having a GG partner who wants, needs and enjoys sex/lovemaking [wrestling naked with a partner does not automatically REQUIRE an O from either party IMO] is a PART of what I need from a GG. Which at my age is why I no longer seek a female companion. Very few women over 50ish feel "good" about their looks and thus have poor self esteem along with very low or non existent sex drive.

There are obviously many others here, who have similar attitudes/have given up/decided that finding a GG companion is simply not worth the effort required.

And this just "might" pick you [or anyone else] up, should you ever feel down in the dumps for whatever reason. It's about taking lemons and making lemonade. Have your tissues handy. The steel guitar work alone...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODHCwsJkElo&feature=kp

[JamieG]

Why do you need us when you have a ready made wife inside you??

As many have said, we are not "ready-made wives inside." Heck, I think I'm pretty lousy company. Can't even imagine being married to me. :-)

Most of what I wanted to say has been said, so I'll highlight some of the thoughts that resonated most with me:


Are you implying that because we like to dress up we dont need love and companionship? by "making compromises" are you saying that a woman could not love a CDer?


I dont think most people think of themselves as their own spouse, regardless of their gender. We still crave that very special someone who we can love and trust more than anyone else in the world. Its like that saying, no man is an island. Trying to be your own spouse sounds kind of like talking to yourself instead of sharing ideas with a friend.


Hi Tink, It can be lonely when we can't share with the one that we love.

One final thought: Gloria Steinem often said (although she didn't originate it) "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle," but I have never heard a crossdresser say "A crossdresser needs a woman like a fish needs a bicycle." Maybe the question should be why do women need husbands? And why do so many women stay with men who are alcoholics, gambling addicts, drug addicts, cheaters, and/or wife-beaters, but a man who is in touch with his feminine side is immediately a pariah? What does that say about our society?

Jamie

[hope springs]

Jamie makes a great point. Women will put up with a hell of alot. But dressing up seems to be a potential deal breaker.
Tinker, you ask an interesting question. It confused me because its interal logic is full of more holes than swiss cheese. We arent replacing anyone, most definitely not our wives.
I am extremely interested to hear what other questions and ideas are floated around the support groups. Knowing their true concerns would definitely help many of us with their SOs, as they may not be telling us everything on their mind.
Back to your question. If a relationship is a tree... the husband the roots, the wife the leaves... each doing its part for the health and growth of the tree, then CDing is like sunshine. It envigorates, renews and feeds us. The symbiosis falls apart if any one element is missing. The tree cannot survive without its leaves and slowly withers without the sun

[Desirae]

Frankly, I don't see a "ready made wife inside" of me. True, I am single, but I have been in quite a few relationships, a couple very long term. I find it difficult to understand a comparison between inanimate objects (clothing) and actual human interaction with emotional involvement. It's apples and oranges. I guess the clothing does fill some kind of "void" inside me, but it can't fill the other "voids" that are fulfilled by being in a healthy, loving, giving relationship. Clothing can't be my best friend. Maybe we just have more voids that need filled than the average, joe-typical, male?

[MissVictoria]

One of the biggest reasons I continue to come to this site is specifically for questions like this! While I agree with most of what's been said already, the biggest takeaway for me is the reply that said cross dressing is an extremely selfish activity. My wife enjoys and encourages my time as Victoria. Hell, she even named me after her middle and last names! I told her exactly 2 months into our relationship that I had this particular hobby. That was 14 years ago yesterday. Over those 14 years, I have spent countless amounts of money on something I may do once or twice a month. For example, 87 pairs of heels! Could that money have been better spent taking the wife out to a Broadway show, or dinner or gifts, etc. Of course like I said, she thoroughly enjoys it, , and has never once asked me to put my skirts and heels away for us.

Over the past year, I feel I have become more of a pain in the ass because I ask her, literally all the time, why she puts up with ME and MY cd'ing. She replies that it's OUR hobby, and because she loves me. She completes me, is not a replacement for anything, and gets me better than anyone I've ever known.

As an aside: I sincerely appreciate these thought provoking questions, where one can engage in a serious dialog about what we do. I feel this type of post, when read by the anonymous GG, is far more helpful than the countless "What color are your panties?" threads and the "OMG, I put on a pair of hose under my jeans, workboots and winter coat, do you think I got read?" threads. I know I will get flamed for this, but the first place my wife went when she first looked at this site was the main CDing page, not the loved ones forum. Not being a member, she clicked on the first thing she saw, and was inundated with seemingly trivial posts about underwear. In fact, she was confused as to why I log in to read about so much panty talk! There aree times, sadly, I must agree with her. End of rant, sorry to hi-jack.

[PaulaQ]

Given how complicated the relationship with a GG is for you all, it doesn't seem like GG/CD relationships fare very well. They can, but there's an awful lot of compromising involved. Often, the compromising means putting aside something important and innate to accommodate the spouse. Do other marriages compromise this much?

So, as the annoying girl that I'm am :) I have to ask....

WHY do you need us??

This is a lot like asking a lesbian "why do you need a relationship? Since you are a girl, you can be in a relationship with yourself!"

The answer is that most of us desire for companionship. Being a gender variant person is incredibly isolating. Before the advent of the internet, most of us wondered if we were the only person like us on earth. We'd certainly never met anyone else. Alienated and lonely, many of us long for an understanding partner.

It's simply part of the human condition to desire to not be alone, and most on this site are attracted to women.

[KellyJameson]

Tinkerbell

How does your partners crossdressing affect your feelings about yourself as a woman?

[Eryn]

Why do you need us when you have a ready made wife inside you??

This is a misconception. I do not have another person inside of me. I have a part of myself that desires to express itself as being feminine. Since this part of me is not interested in sex it could be interpreted as an asexual companion. Many GGs have close GG friends that they view in the same way.


Given how complicated the relationship with a GG is for you all, it doesn't seem like GG/CD relationships fare very well. They can, but there's an awful lot of compromising involved. Often, the compromising means putting aside something important and innate to accommodate the spouse. Do other marriages compromise this much?

No marriage is static. Both partners evolve and change with time. Here are some examples:

One partner takes up golf.
One partner joins a Harley club.
One partner joins a segregated-gender club
One partner converts to a different religion
One partner is afflicted with a chronic illness or injury
One partner becomes addicted to alcohol or drugs

All of these will demand some form of compromise on the part of both partners. A spouse who flat refuses to allow their partner to take up a new hobby would be viewed as overly controlling. One who blithely allowed their partner to become addicted to drugs would be seen as neglectful.

CDing lies somewhere between these extremes. CDers who are in accepting relationships look to our spouses for support and guidance. If we're smart we will take their advice and work to accommodate their needs as well. I'll admit that sometimes I can be self-centered, but most of the time I do try to understand my spouse's needs. I try to keep our outings while I am dressed entertaining and worthwhile for us both. Our social sphere has increased and many of the friends, both CD and GG, we've met through CDing have made our life experience richer.

[susan54]

Wooh. This is a scary question. It never occurred to me that a woman might think this.

The first thing about heterosexual men is that we split into those who are attracted to women but are men's men who almost resent women for the power they have over them, and those who love women and every aspect of them - they LIKE women. I suspect that the wider male population is in the former category and most of us on this site are in the latter. We rejoice in the difference, and the clothes (yours, not ours) are a very minor part of this. I have never chosen a partner on the basis of her clothes and I hope I never will.

An intelligent woman friend or partner is something beyond value, beyond any limit of appreciation. Women are different, lovely personalities.

It might or might not be relevant that I am a guy who is still me in a dress - no separate identity (some on this site think of them as female when dressed). I do not imagine I am a woman - I am just acting. I use a feminine voice out and about but am happy with all the people I interact with knowing I am a man. I would have huge difficulties using that female voice in the presence of a partner - I WANT to be perceived as a guy in a dress in private. In public, I am happy to be that guy who looks really good in a dressand is a good actor. I have one GG friend who treats me as a woman when we go on a night out but I would be just as happy if she treated me as a bloke.

So GGs out there should relax. You have the same power over us CDs you always had. You are the real thing. We just dress up. Nothing we can do can replace you,

[emily606]

My answer is real simple: Yes I love to dress up as a girl. However, most of the time I present myself to the world as a man. I've always been attracted to women. I've always loved my wife and I have always been faithful to her in over 32 years of marriage. That being said, I love being intimate with her and I love being her man.

One of my biggest worries that as a man, my interest in crossdressing disappoints her perception of me. I wish that I'd fully disclosed to her before we married that I crossdressed, but I didn't fully understand it myself and I sincerely thought it was something that would vanish.

The bottom line is that I adore women. While I love dressing up as one, I still love being a man when I'm with them.

Emily

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Tinkerbell

How does your partners crossdressing affect your feelings about yourself as a woman?

Kelly, I'm fine with how I feel about myself...now.

In the early days?? It was terrible. I literally stopped wearing anything sexy and lingerie was completely off the table. I remember crying as I tucked all my lace and satin items to the back of the dresser, thinking he'll only want to wear them and clearly he doesn't care what I look like in them (yes, I really thought this!) I think back now and it's incredibly sad I felt that way. I was young and hot, for crying out loud, lol.

But, this is a VERY common reaction in the GG groups. A new wife will almost always say she no longer feels like the important, sexy one to her H. It's heartbreaking to hear how so many still do what I did...stop dressing pretty or thinking they're attractive or needed. Some even go the other way and try and out dress their H - but plenty just feel ugly, usually because at the same time they've found out about the dressing, the H falls into a Pink Fog (very common) so the whole thing is compounded and I guess our self-esteem really takes a hit. So the considerate posts written here will help so much if they see them.

And yep, we do tend to read anonymously here first before joining, if we ever do. Yet, this is your part of the forum and often not the best place for us to read, as I think was mentioned. But many GG's will prefer to remain anonymous as this is very difficult for them, so I like putting out questions they might stumble across. I wish someone had done this for me.

Thankfully, there's always been Reine's thoughtful, level-headed presence here and that really meant so much to this lonely, scared GG, even though Reine wouldn't have realised :)

[Lorileah]

:clap::bighug:Tinkerbell, that is one of the most insightful clear answers I have ever seen. The not dressing up is not just for GGs with TG partners. When any man quits telling his spouse she is pretty, she starts ti believe she isn't pretty.

[Erica Marie]

Tink you always come up with a good question.

I guess why does anyone need a companion. Why do gay couples need each other, why do straight couples need each other. For companionship, friendship and support. Its like a guy or a girl who goes out hunting or fishing all day. They have their dog, they have their boat, they have their time alone to go out and do what ever they want. At times they just want to be left alone to do what they enjoy, but at times they also wish that their spouse/companion would accompany them. Do they NEED that other person there, no not always but when you can enjoy time with a friend it makes life just that much nicer.
Hope that made just a tiny bit of sense.

[Marcelle]

. . . It's heartbreaking to hear how so many still do what I did...stop dressing pretty or thinking they're attractive or needed . . .

Exactly Tink and this is why I have never lost sight of the fact that I am a guy . . . I do not transform into super model or fantasy girl it is also the reason the bedroom is an Isha free zone (only one girl there and she is the pretty sexy one). My wife will tell me I look pretty when dressed but I know she is being kind. However I never miss an opportunity to let her know she is pretty or looks good and I am not just being kind.

Hugs

Isha

[Deedee Skyblue]

I am a single person. I enjoy dressing up, but I am not a woman, will never be a woman, and in any case, I'm only a single person. A wife is a totally separate person... can 't hug yourself, can't make conversation with yourself, can't go on a couples date with yourself...

Deedee

[Eryn]

Kelly, I'm fine with how I feel about myself...now.

In the early days?? It was terrible. I literally stopped wearing anything sexy and lingerie was completely off the table. I remember crying as I tucked all my lace and satin items to the back of the dresser, thinking he'll only want to wear them and clearly he doesn't care what I look like in them (yes, I really thought this!) I think back now and it's incredibly sad I felt that way. I was young and hot, for crying out loud, lol.

I won't speak for others, but I do enjoy how my spouse looks and care about how she feels about herself. The fact that I have taken the privilege of wearing pretty things doesn't mean that I don't want others to have the same privilege, any more than one GG would begrudge another GG's wearing of something attractive.


But, this is a VERY common reaction in the GG groups. A new wife will almost always say she no longer feels like the important, sexy one to her H. It's heartbreaking to hear how so many still do what I did...stop dressing pretty or thinking they're attractive or needed. Some even go the other way and try and out dress their H - but plenty just feel ugly, usually because at the same time they've found out about the dressing, the H falls into a Pink Fog (very common) so the whole thing is compounded and I guess our self-esteem really takes a hit. So the considerate posts written here will help so much if they see them.

I think that we can also cite the loss of exclusivity as a reason for this loss of self-esteem. Suddenly (from the GG's point of view), things that were exclusive to the female partner are no longer solely her domain.

I sometimes wonder if GGs are getting a taste of what those men in the boardroom felt when women invaded that exclusive domain?


Thankfully, there's always been Reine's thoughtful, level-headed presence here and that really meant so much to this lonely, scared GG, even though Reine wouldn't have realised :)

Reine's thoughtful writings here has been equally helpful to both CDers and GGs. I am very thankful that she has has ignored the negatives in order to continue to help us here.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

I think that we can also cite the loss of exclusivity as a reason for this loss of self-esteem. Suddenly (from the GG's point of view), things that were exclusive to the female partner are no longer solely her domain.

I sometimes wonder if GGs are getting a taste of what those men in the boardroom felt when women invaded that exclusive domain?



That's a good way of putting this. We probably do feel like we're having our toes stepped on. Looking pretty and wearing lingerie etc is just assumed to be our unique thing that we bring to the relationship. Our H is meant to bask in our beauty, lol. I remember being completely shocked that there was another option - my H could wear it, too! Why hadn't anyone ever warned me that this was possible? I felt like the world had tilted off its axis. Where was my place now, if I couldn't even be the exclusively feminine, pretty one? Luckily, most of us GG's do outgrow these thoughts as we find purpose in work or children and yes, our marriages to our quirky men :) But when you're young and naive and still intent on being worshipped by your Prince Charming, it can be quite the shock to discover he shares your interests.

But I also think you're right that maybe men have felt this way, too? We girls have certainly decided that there's no territory out of our grasp. What is there that we can't/don't do now? So as the wiser GG that I am now, I think it completely fair that pretty things be available to men. I just hope that women's self esteem rises along with such a change and we can accept you being pretty like men have had to accept our career ambitions.

Interesting thoughts.

And thanks, Lorileah :) It's true - anyone can feel ugly if they're not shown otherwise. We all deserve to feel beautiful to those we care for the most.

[Jilmac]

Although crossdressing is our main baggage, this doesn't mean that we don't need GGs in our lives, GGs bring plenty of their own baggage into a relationship. As partners or spouses in any relationship we need each other like flowers need rain. Our need for each other is the reason we began a relationship in the first place. We have accepted each other's baggage and understand that coping with it helps the relationship grow and prosper.

[giuseppina]

We need someone that we can trust and be trusted by. We need someone to love and be loved by. I'm talking more about companionate love more than sex here.

While some of us go overboard with CDing, there are others who are more in control of their dressing.

I didn't read all the responses, but gender is a continuum. Most males wouldn't be caught dead in female clothes. Some of us get irritable if we don't get dressing time. Dressing is a de-stresser. It isn't realistic, but it works for us. For the most part, we didn't ask for this. Speaking for myself, I would prefer a lady who doesn't get upset at the sight of her husband in women's clothing. I've accepted this as part of me.

[KellyJameson]

Thank you Tinkerbell for your thoughtful replies.

I used the clothes like a crutch to cope with identity issues and to be attractive to men.

Since transitioning I have lost almost all interest in clothes and largely favor jeans, tee shirts and hiking boots and the clothes are for special occasions or for professional reasons.

I never related to crossdressers because they relate to women in ways entirely foreign to me.

In general they idolize and worship women which can be a good thing for a woman if this focus stays on her as long as they do not become suffocating or emotionally clingy.

My problem is that I find feminine men sexually unappealing because their energy is all wrong for me and I wonder how many wives struggle to be sexually attracted to their crossdressing partners.

Certainly some woman find feminine men sexually appealing and they may bring a sensitivity to the bedroom that more masculine men are incapable of.

Separate from the sex there is that feeling of not being good enough almost like you have been replaced with a form of pornography so it is a slap in the face mixed in with what almost seems like a perversion of their sexuality.

I have often been mystified by men concerning their sexuality and it seems that for many men their sexuality has a life of its own that like a strong current drags them to destinations unknown.

Male sexuality is both extremely straight forward and easy to understand while having a side to it that is complex, unpredictable and unexpected.

For heterosexual men this sexuality is wrapped up in their attitudes toward women and all that symbolizes women combined with their male identities that often clash with the crossdressing, creating fear and guilt.

This must create incredible tension inside of men who crossdress from this push pull between their male identity and their sexuality when drapped in the clothing of women.

It calms and excites them while possibly giving them an escape from the emotional wounds and battle scars they incurred earning their male identity

I think crossdressing frees men from suffering while also making them suffer.

If I was married to a crossdresser who I needed to see as a man (as felt by and seen by me so it is very subjective) not only to be able to respect him as a man but to sexually desire him as a man, I would need balance in the relationship.

The more feminine he is the more masculine I would need him to be, particularly in the bedroom but also just in general.

It is not fair to ask a woman to bend her sexuality and everything that comes out of this as her in relationship to men.

There is a Yin and Yang to nature that creates attraction between opposites and it is in this contrast where we experience attraction.

I completely get why some woman are repelled by crossdressing because it violates the Yin/Yang experience of men being different from women.

All of the feelings you have expressed are completely understandable under the circumstances.

Crossdressing certainly affects the wife but it is not because of a failing on the wives part.

I doubt if there is a woman born that can permanently stop someone from crossdressing because it comes out of a mans deepest response "to women"

At best all you can do is try to channel it back toward you as much as possible.

[Sarah Doepner]

Tinkerbell,

It seems that your question is predicated on the assumption that crossdressing defines us, but it is only one aspect of our worlds. My wife passed away over a year ago and although I still dress, it doesn't fill the void that she left. I think that is proof enough for me that there is so much more to a successful relationship than a wifes willingness to accept a husbands crossdressing. She had been battling cancer for many years and I was the housekeeper, cook, bill payer, travel agent, etc. etc. but she was the one who was the focus of the family. It is a constant reminder of things that were really important, not just fun or satisfying to my gender identity, but to me as a person. I needed her, not just to share my crossdressing, but my life in all its joy, saddness, wonder, frustration and exploration. As much as we focus on crossdressing here on this forum, it is only a small part of our lives.

[TinaZ]

To my friend Tink, and to any GG who's lurking here anonymously for answers:

This is the cold, hard fact you need to internalize - and I mean really let it sink in and become your reality: Crossdressing has NOTHING to do with you.

NOTHING.

I'm married and I crossdress. If I were single, I would crossdress. If I were a priest, I would crossdress. If I were gay, I would crossdress. If I were stranded on a deserted island, I would fashion fig leaves into a skirt.

I'm not sure how much more clearly I can make this. Our crossdressing has NOTHING to do with the woman in our life, or the women, or the lack thereof.

It's like asking how being right handed affects my relationship with my wife. Wha? I'd be right handed regardless.

Sorry if that sounds cold, but it's the truth.

Tink, your H dressed (or wanted to) long before he met you. He dresses now that he's married to you. If you die tomorrow (God forbid), he'll dress until the day he's buried.

You are not a factor in him being a cross dresser.

-----

With all that said, if my wife told me tomorrow she can't take it anymore, I'd move heaven and earth to try to rid myself of it. The very same as if she said she asked me to stop being right handed, I'd use my left hand continuously until it felt normal-ish (and it never would). I'm committed to her and she's my priority, but she has nothing to do with me being right handed. Same deal with crossdressing.

[Emi_]

We are not all Prince Charming and not every spouse is Cinderella. We are all flawed in a number of ways and wholly imperfect. Cross-dressing is just one of any number of issues a marriage can face and women can bring their own set of issues into the marriage as well. There is a tendency in today's marriages to fantasize about some romantic ideal sold to us by Disney movies and romantic comedies. He's supposed to be handsome, strong, masculine, funny, and make all the right mores. She's supposed to be pretty and sexually appealing, fit and strong but with a quick vulnerability and she is supposed to adore him. To enter into a relationship with these expectations is to begin with a foundation based, literally, on fairy tales. No man is all those things in perfect measure all the time and no woman is that kind of perfection either. The deeper issue of cross-dressing in marriages is whether or not you have a clear picture of the person you are married to. The act of hiding our imperfections definitely damages the trust of our partners, no matter what has been hidden. One of the first steps to healing is understanding that we are all flawed. We fall in love and tell ourselves a whole fairy tale of what life is going to be like and don't even think to consider that there will be problems or challenges or that what we're hiding may be too much for our partner to handle or that our partner may one day reveal something to us that we will not be able to handle. This kind of blind abandonment into marriage is foolish and leads to unreal expectations and guaranteed disappointments. For all the time we spend getting to know our potential spouses, we spend far more time actually being spouses. If you think that you will not discover something new about them in the course of 30, 40, or 50 years and that some of those things will not please you you are living in a delusion. Even if you know all about the cross-dressing and find a way to deal with it, what happens when he discovers you bite your toenails or you discover he sniffs his q-tips? Cross-dressing is only an issue because society has not learned how to deal with it, but it is just one of thousands of things that you can discover about your partner over the course of a marriage and no one is without flaws and your spouse may discover something about you that they can't handle even more than you can't handle them wanting to wear some glass slippers.

[Amanda M]

At 8pm on the 11th of December 1963 I was introduced to incredibly beautiful, blue-eyed blonde ballerina. She was wearing a patterned red wool dress, just to the knee, and her hair was in an elegant French roll. And that, as they say was that! We have now been married for 44 years. I loved her then, and I love her now. She is my strength, my rock, my friend , my lover. I would trust her with my life. That, Tinks, is why I need her. I have nothing inside me, or in a mirror that could take anything away from her.

In a nutshell, she is my wife, and my life.

[September]

Tinkerbell,

I think CDers marry women for the same reasons that non-CDers marry women. Just like everyone else here has said.

I do understand that GGs (depending on how they were raised or how open-minded they are) may have to rethink their gender roles and that mainstream society doesn't prepare people for this. But gender roles are a social construct, so we can relearn and rethink them.

I'm not a "good housewife." I hate dusting and mopping and I'll never be the stay-at-home mom because that's not who I am. I love my work and I'm passionate about my career. That doesn't make me less of a woman or a human being.

And we--women and men--need to stop valuing ourselves based on the fake ideal of beauty from magazines and media. Those people don't exist! It's all make-up and photoshopping. I am beautiful with or without make-up. I am beautiful if I wear jeans and t-shirts or if I wear a sexy dress. My husband is beautiful whether he's wearing a suit and vest or wearing a push-up bra and skirt.

Marriage is hard. That's why there is so much divorce and there are so many unhappy marriages. It requires a lot of freaking work. No matter who you are, marriage is about two individuals trying to be partners in life. People are crazy and weird and beautiful and different and fascinating. The wonderful thing about marriage is that you have the pleasure of really knowing someone and of seeing them for who they really are. Isn't that amazing? I think it's quite an honor.


Because when she smiles the world fades into the background.
Because when she talks I'm not listening to anything else.
Because when she holds me I want time to stop.
Because when she hurts I will tear down mountains to make her happy.
Because when she's not there something is missing and I can't work out what it is.
Because I cannot imagine what the world would be like without her.

Adina, you made me get all teary-eyed. So romantic! :c9::c9:


At 8pm on the 11th of December 1963 I was introduced to incredibly beautiful, blue-eyed blonde ballerina...In a nutshell, she is my wife, and my life.

Amanda, I love this! So many years later and you know the date and time that you met your wife!

[Alice Torn]

Emi, is so right! I have been saying this for decades, since being in recovery from a toxic family of origin. The Price Charming/Cinderella fairy tale act we are told by society to play before marriage, is a reipce for disaster! People need to stop being in denial and phoney , to attract a mate, and just be real! Men need to put off the Superman, and Prince Charming costumes, and GG's need to put off the Cinderella, and Wonder Woman costumes, and be real to the future mate. We need to reveal the good, the bad, and the ungly to our potential mates. As bad as that sounds, it would save a lot of negative surprises later on, and divorces. And, that means admitting and discussing CDing before engagements, too. Sadly, the fairy tale weddings keep happening. Look at Prince Charles/Diana! I have been to so many "fairy tale" type weddings , back in the 1980's, and so many are long divorced now.

[CarlaWestin]

Hey Tink, let me backtrack a little and be typically male. We really don't need y'all if we're financially and emotionally sound. You really don't know the crushing baggage my wife brings to our relationship. Financial, emotional. Most men would have run screaming by now.

And, I just Love her.

She thinks I'm effed up because I'm a crossdresser. I mentioned one time that all I needed to do was walk out the front door and just drive away. I've done it before.

Ya' really think we ultimately, really need y'all?

Think again.

[dana digs sweaters]

You ladies inspire some of us.
After all, how many are inspired to look like Grog the Caveman?

[PaulaQ]

So as the wiser GG that I am now, I think it completely fair that pretty things be available to men. I just hope that women's self esteem rises along with such a change and we can accept you being pretty like men have had to accept our career ambitions.


And yet you still struggle with this with your husband, right? :(

I think a lot of women have a lot of self-esteem and body image issues. Why wouldn't they? There's a multi-billion dollar industry that is geared to making sure that we do. Most women need to feel better about themselves. I think all of us are beautiful, each in our own way.

As for societal roles, I think women get a raw deal. Somehow, at least here in the states, you are supposed to have a successful career, be a super mom, have a magazine photo-shoot ready home, and be sexy and feminine for your husbands. This is a ridiculously impossible and contradictory set of goals. I can't see how most women wouldn't feel like failures if they hold themselves to those types of standards. (Oh, while being rail-thin with supermodel looks.)

[MissTee]

Your question is thought provoking Tink and I rather enjoy your candor on this forum. More truth and less sugar coating helps us all learn and grow.

As to your question, see if this makes sense: I golf, I fish, I garden, I bowl, I write, I cycle, and I dress. Not one of those outlets replaces my need for opposite sex companionship. Dressing, then, is just a thing I do.

However, dressing is seen as counter-gendering and everyone knows if you are not true to your own gender then you must be . . . well, bad news. Good to know how GG's really feel, and honestly it's not surprising.

[jackie_p]

Great thread Tink. Like others, these types of topics are why I come here, some thought provoking discussion. Many have said it already, that we all, men and women alike, have some basic need of human companionship, love, friendship etc. life is just so much better when we have someone to share it with.

However, I try always to look at both sides of issues. In this case I'm trying to see it from a woman's perspective. So much of what we believe is based on the ideas and opinions presented to us, in the media, by our friends and relatives growing up, etc. We hear regularly that women have a poor body image because of the media. People often learn to be bigoted because they grow up in bigoted families. The point is that we all have these built in ideas and beliefs, like skirts are for women and pants are for men, even thought it has not always been that way, it is now and so we get programmed with these beliefs.

I will probably make a few people angry for this but, in my humble opinion, one of the things that we still get programmed with are the gender roles of men and women, men as the strong provider, and women as the loving nurturing housewife. So I wonder if the wife, when she finds out about our feminine side doesn't feel threatened because the stereotypes that she has grown up with are breaking down and she doesn't know where she fits in, not that she literally thinks that we can really be both man and woman in some sort of singular relationship with ourselves.

This might explain why early disclosure is better than discovering after many years of marriage, as in my case. My wife still loves me and has come to some level of understanding but I can't say that she loves it. But when I finally told her, after 27 years of marriage, her main problem seemed to be that all of the things that she knew about me we're put into question. And yes, she basically asked me at one point the same question that you asked, why do I need her? It has now been 5 years since disclosure and she knows that I need her for all the reasons that I did when we were 20, because she is my life and she completes me in every way.

Oddly enough, she still has a lot of those stereotypical ideas but I guess that we can't drop all of our notions of what gender is supposed to be overnight or the world would be crazy when we wake up in the morning. But it is ok because we work at it every day. It is hard but it is worth it. That it the thing that I think people are missing these days. They would much rather walk away than work at something. Maybe that's why the divorce rate in general is way over 50 percent in this country, and not just because of crossdressing.

Sorry for the long post.

[Dana3]

I was raised in Alabama by my Grandparents. My father's parents. My grandfather was born in 1899, and my grandmother was born in 1907. They married in 1922. They raised seven children through the Great Depression, sent three sons to WWII and another to the Korean War. Neither of them went past the sixth grade. I was one of less than a handful to graduate high school and college. I enlisted and did twenty years in the Marine Corps.

I know how to hunt and trap, find my ways through the woods, read a compass, a map. I've been through Desert, Winter, Jungle, Mountain, Warfare/Survival school in the Marine. I know how to live and survive off the land if need be. Which wild plants that are edible and meducible. I know how to skin and gut a buck, and set a trout line.

I hold a Bachelors in Business Administration ~ Finance and am a Chef through the American Culinary Arts Institute. I am Red Cross trained and certified in CPR, First Responder, as well as through the Marine Corps. I know how to wash clothes, separating them by color and fabric. I also know how to wash them without a washing machine.

I can cook, bake and frost a cake. Even decorate it. Write my name on it...........................

I well educated both formally and informally, and well read, owning a sizeable personal library.

But I need my wife to keep me sound, balanced, my "center" to not only feel and be loved but to give love, to give of myself completely and totally to another ~ to someone else ~ to her. To be a bigger part of something greater than myself.

I don't love her because I NEED her, I NEED her because I love her for the truly unique one-of-a-kind, special, hard-to-find SPECIAL person, individual, mother, woman, ........................WIFE that she is!

[Jessica86]

Am I the only one here who thinks this is not a question that is hard to ask or answer?

This is simple. Ask anyone why they need their spouse and you get the same answer. Doesn't matter what they are wearing, what color they are, sex preference or gender. To think otherwise, and pose a question thinking the answer is different because of any ONE of those....is wrong to me.

I would like to hear some of the VERY interesting questions. It helps us all when others pose the hard questions and make us think. Einstein did not get smart from asking what 2+2 is all day long, and asking WHY does it equal 4? Questions like what exact numerical value is PI is what made a genius.

[Adriana Moretti]

I LOVE it......great post...I cant speak for everyone...just myself...I DONT need a s/o... and never plan on getting married, OR having kids....I look at all my married friends and they have NO freedom...and they DONT even dress...its just not a lifestyle choice that works for me personally. No offense to anyone who is married etc...its just not for me...I could never say to a friend " No..I cant go...my wife wont let me"..or ask permission to do or go anywhere. I am quite happy and content being alone and comfortable with myself...i dont need another person to feel complete. My single guy pals travel at the drop of a hat, have fun, enjoy life...buy big toys like boats, and cars, ..or maybe we are just a rare breed that dosent want a wife..and a headache...a nag...a responsibility..an obligation.....or maybe we are just selfish...

[Tinkerbell-GG]

At 8pm on the 11th of December 1963 I was introduced to incredibly beautiful, blue-eyed blonde ballerina. She was wearing a patterned red wool dress, just to the knee, and her hair was in an elegant French roll. And that, as they say was that! We have now been married for 44 years. I loved her then, and I love her now. She is my strength, my rock, my friend , my lover. I would trust her with my life. That, Tinks, is why I need her. I have nothing inside me, or in a mirror that could take anything away from her.

In a nutshell, she is my wife, and my life.

Okay, this entire post is swoon-worthy! Seriously, Amanda, you just wrote why WE need you! :)

I actually love every post here. September, you're so right - we are beautiful no matter what we're doing or wearing. I'm actually a lot like you (very career minded) so you can imagine my identity crisis with becoming a SAHM some years back. It has not been easy and while I know I'm doing the best for my family - I'm literally hanging to get back to ME! That said, I've also gained some amazing unexpected moments in my new role (who knew how much love my children could bring out of me!) so I'm adapting better than expected.

Carla, you made me chuckle. I totally expect most husbands at some point have imagined they'd speed away from the ball and chain that is their wife and go merrily into the horizon in their imaginary Ferrari . Many men do have the freedom to do this so you're right - every day my H stays, he's proving that he needs me. Who knew? That's such an interesting way
to think of this.

Emi, your post should be read by everyone. We have ridiculous expectations that can't possibly be met, yet we live in hope. I was guilty of this, and I know it still affects me even now. Prince Charming wears my glass slippers and that threw my world off its axis! It would have been nice to be warned that Princes don't come with written instructions and might even dress like a princess on occasion.

There are so many thought provoking posts here I can't possibly answer all, but I want to say that they've ALL affected me. Those who won't marry, those who are married, those who struggle and those who live joyfully life like there's two seconds left - I find a similar thread in them all. I think I've said it here already.

You're really nice people. I just wish everyone else knew this.

[Roxie]

Tinkerbell,
Nice question , my answer is I don't need them, after being with a girlfriend that couldn't handle who I was. I've decided that I don't need who they are. I'd rather be by myself than have to explain myself to anyone.I'm sick of being the " THE FREAK" so now it's just me and thats good in my book
Rock on,Tinkerbell
Roxie

[sarahcsc]

Hi Tinkerbell,

Why do crossdressers need wives or relationships? Well, others have put it very well so I'd just say that because crossdressers are humans too and we all have basic human needs including love and affection. If we could put aside the crossdressing for a minute, I suspect you'd find a boy, wanting to love a girl, and be loved by her in return. Simple? Ah... but it becomes complicated when we attempt to define "love". We all have very different expectations to what love implies, some expect their husbands to provide a sense of security, some desire companionship, and for you, maybe you want a husband who would make you feel important. Maybe that is part of your idea of "love"?

I might be overthinking this but...
You asked a question there "why do you need us?" but I wonder if you are asking... "why do you need ME?"

Are you feeling unwanted?

Tink, these are great responses here and I hope they have helped you feel validated in some ways. However, I wonder if there is a person out there who you'd wish could say these things to you personally instead than having us say it to you.

I know you mentioned that this isn't a personal question but I believe every question hides a need. When a child asks "what time is dinner?", he /she is usually hungry. You also said, "You're really nice people. I just wish everyone else knew this." I wonder if you're wishing that everyone knew this so "someone" would know exactly what to say to you...

Anyways, for what its worth, I enjoyed reading this thread and I hope it changed the way you feel about yourself and us in general. :)

love,
Sarah

[Caden Lane]

Simple. I'm not attracted to men, I'm attracted to women. In order to have a fulfilling life filled with Love, I need a woman by my side in order to complete that equation.

[Alaina R]

This may be a little different but I don't really enjoy crossdressing without a woman being involved and into it. That is part of the deal for me. There are not many of those women but I was lucky that way. For women who do not feel that way I can see that CDing can feel like a barrier. Women want to be the main focus and want to be celebrated. CDing can seem like a barrier as the guy is focused/turned on by something other than her (at least directly). Of course, if women had any idea what men were really thinking or really like sexually, even non-CDs, they'd be horrified anyway. Sometimes I think the CDing just makes it more obvious.

[Tina_gm]

Speaking for myself, my Transgender issues don't come into play when it comes to how I am attracted physically or emotionally towards women. I have the same basic desires as a regular guy. My wife is perplexed by this quite a bit actually. She wonders why I am normal about my affections towards women. To be honest I do as well. But it is what it is. I am a mutt... I am as normal as I am not normal and I have no idea why that is.

[AmandaM]

Answer: Why does any man need a woman.

[Ivie]

I have a wonderful wife, she's loving and caring and funny and beautiful, I need her because I love her, I need her because of her.
My feelings of femininity are just an aspect of myself, that individual duality (if that is sound grammar!) could never present an alternative to a relationship with another human being.

[Tamara Croft]

Why do you need us when you have a ready made wife inside you??

I've just asked my SO (who is a CD) this question and he looked at me dumbfounded and said 'why would you ask a stupid question like that'? I then explained that I didn't and I'd just read it on the forum and he has no words what so ever to reply to it because to me, it really is insulting.

What makes you think the femme person inside is a ready made wife? They going to love themselves? share a kiss, hold hands etc... are you saying they do not deserve a partner because they have a ready made one already? As a GG, I'm as dumbfounded as my SO at such a question, I really don't understand where this could have possibly came from.

What I'd like to know is, why are you such a negative person?

[Vale]

I can offer some observations. My ex-wife once told a councillor, " He doesn't need a better half, he already has one." Which would have been funny if it was not so destructive. That was decades ago. After many years single I am now again married. My wife is emotionally stable, financially secure, understands & tolerates my CD, .... And she doesn't need me. However, she thinks life is more full and more fun with me around. The same is true for myself. I love her but I don't need her. We decided to build a relationship based on our ability to add to each other's lives rather than on neediness. I am finding this works much better most of the time.

Hence my 2 cents would be that my answer, and some other answers here, really answer the slightly different question -- why we love you --

Vale