Why are women so quick to kick us to the curb like garbage?

[Stephanie47]

I did not want to hijack Tinkerbell's thread, "Why do you need us?" Yes, this site is not a reflection of how women feel about cross dressing men. Not at all. In my personal life all I've ever heard or seen is the marriage is quickly ended. Of course, there are probably many marriages, such as mine, where the "secret" is shared. Years ago I listened in on a conversation my wife and her cousin were having concerning her cousin's co worker who lived several houses away from us. The coworker discovered hubby was a cross dresser. Oh, my! How terrible. How disgusting. How can she stay married to him? Well, the women kicked her man to the curb like Wednesday's garbage pickup day. My wife asked many years later why I did not express myself more concerning my cross dressing. I asked if she remembered the conversation she and her cousin were having/ No, she did not remember. But, that conversation was ingrained in my mind and still is. My wife told me she probably would have divorced me when she realized I was a cross dresser, except for the fact she had disclosed to me her life prior to she and I meeting. It was not pretty.

She would have kicked me to the curb, ignoring all the great positive attributes I had and still have.

So, Tinkerbell, why are women so quick to kick their man to the curb like Wednesday garbage???

PS: In our neighborhood trash is picked up on Wednesday.

[mikiSJ]

Some, only some women are ready to kick us to the curb.

My sample size is small, but I think when the marriage disintegrates so rapidly, it is not because of the CDing, but something else that can remain hidden now that the CDing is at the fore and becomes a great reason to split.

[NicoleScott]

Oh, the irony of the trash analogy. My first wife found out about my crossdressing when she picked up trash after a windstorm blew over our garbage can. In it was a pantyhose package which was not her size. Confronted, confessed, busted. Counseling at her insistence did no good, as her objective was to cure me and mine was to get her acceptance. Doomed for failure. So we divorced. I think it was her "it just isn't right" upbringing that rendered her unable to be married to a crossdressing husband.
To my current wife, it's no big deal, just something I like to do, and it doesn't threaten her at all. I'm just a typical normal guy who likes to dress up occasionally.

[Sc0rp10N]

Cross dressing had nothing to do with my first marriage ending, but sex certainly did. My second, current and final wife is the only person that has ever seen me dressed and she isn't about to "kick me to the curb."

[PaulaQ]

A great many women, as well as society overall, find the idea of crossdressing to be repulsive. Our wives often feel entitled to a future they'd imagined with their spouses, and having a TG spouse ends all chances of that future, in their minds. Anger and grief ensue over the loss. We are simply not viewed as being the same person, in many cases. This is much more pronounced for those of us who transition, but it is definitely alive and well in the "just a CD" world.

[Ressie]

Put yourself in a woman's shoes! Now how would you feel if your man turned out to be a woman? (BTW, how do you like those shoes? lol)

[TessaGirl]

Also, women may quite often be more conservative than men. Perhaps even for some younger
ones (not all!) nowadays, it goes against their idea of what society should be like. That's just
speculating, I don't know.

[Marcelle]

His Stephanie . . . interesting question :). I personally think that not all women are ready to "kick us to the curb" but many will definitely have a "what the :censor:" moment when they find out. You have to admit that this is going to be a hard pill to swallow especially when you find out the life you expected to lead with your partner has just taken a tangential dive off a cliff. This is not like telling your wife you have been "sneak smoking" for the past five or so years.

I truly believe if the relationship is strong, the SO can see beyond the clothing and the CDer is willing to work toward a mutual compromise then then you may not find yourself out with the garbage. However, it is plausible that this is just a road some women cannot travel. You cannot fault them for it as it is a difficult thing to accept. When I told my wife I was prepared to let her go if she could not live with this, not because I did not love her but because I knew this was not going away and if I tried to supress it I would have been miserable and would make her life miserable in the process. Fortunately she stayed and fully supports.

Hugs

Isha

[Lorileah]

Put yourself in a woman's shoes! Now how would you feel if your man turned out to be a woman? (BTW, how do you like those shoes? lol)


Not buying this argument. Most CDs don't turn out to be women. Now if you say that about TSs I get it. This isn't an "I am woman" thing. It is a "I like to look like a woman" or "I like the look of the clothes". Rephrasing the response above: How would you feel if your wife crossdressed?


I was avoiding the answer that I have given for over 5 years on this type of OP. They are kicking you to the curb for MORE than the clothes. Usually (once you get past the social mores) it is a matter of losing trust. I was hoping a GG would address this.

[ReluctantDebutant]

How many cross-dressers would like to be in her shoes? The wife comes home and says she needs to unload a secret, she like to dress as a man and wants to express herself in more masculine ways. it not that she just wants to wear slacks and a golf shirt from time to time. She wants to cut her hair short or wear a bald cap, she wants to have facial hair and bind her breasts, she wants to let her body hair grow and wear an anatomically correct prosthetic in her boxer-briefs. She wants to talk and act more like a guy, or at least how she perceives typical male behavior. She may want to adopt a more manly role in the bedroom. She may fear what friends and family might think so you have to help keep her secret at the same time she seems to be dressing more and more now that she outed herself to you.

Would you still be attracted to her? Would she still ignite that spark? How would you feel being married to a wife who wants to be more "manly" (stereotypically)?

I know there's a subtype of cross-dresser that this would be a dream true. But I would say from experience that CDing is a deep attraction towards the feminine and seeing a woman reject femininity might cause more discomfort in a CDing husband.

I myself would understand and be nice about it. But any attraction would be gone. That extra something that made the relationship husband and wife would be gone. The relationship might turn to just friendship. I would say a marriage needs more. It may be that my own cross-dressing is giving me more empathy to her situation. It may be if I never felt the need to cross-dress myself I may feel more harsh feelings of betrayal in this situation.

We are only human we may talk here of a gender spectrum but in the end there is only two sexes. And in those two sexes have a hardwiring of traits to look for in the other. I would say nature is hard to overcome.

[Emi_]

First of all, I have been married for 12 years now. My wife discovered my cross-dressing in our 2nd year of marriage. She knows, accepts, and even encourages me to cross-dress. She knows that I love her and put her first and that there is nothing wrong with wearing these clothes. She also readily admits that what hurt wasn't that I do this but that I lied to her about it.

I firmly believe that marriages that fail because of cross-dressing have other issues, particularly in areas of trust and compromise. All marriages face challenges and there are always going to be difficult times so it's not like cross-dressing is the only kind of stress that can test a marriage and a lot of marriages survive all kinds of pains and struggles. Marriages that fail will usually have histories of problems that were dealt with poorly - that includes refusing to deal with a problem either by ignoring it or lying about it.

Furthermore, when we do not communicate openly, honestly, and intimately with our spouses about our cross-dressing, we are perpetuating a lie. When the truth is found out, the sense of betrayal had got to be overwhelming - the basis of trust is shattered and the reality that one had accepted is now gone and all of it has happened by force against the spouse's will. It is not at all unfathomable that that kind of hurt can lead to immediate and violent rejection - we aren't who we said we were and now nothing we have said or done can be trusted by them.

In short, I believe that we cross-dressers can be very short-sighted and selfish. Many cross-dressers would rather have their way and have their cross-dressing than to be a full participant in the joint venture that is a real and healthy relationship. The actions of many cross-dressers have already effectively kicked the wife to the curb so it is little surprise that we would get kicked to the curb when she finds out.

[Kate Simmons]

I see a storm a brewin' with this one. :)

[Marcelle]

Right you are Kate . . . got my umbrella and rain jacket.

Hugs

Isha

[Eryn]

There are a wide range of marriages, and the level of commitment varies from the traditional "Until death do us part" to the more modern "Until my spouse does something I don't like." There are exceptions, but it also seems that the age at marriage also has an effect on how motivated the partners are to compromise with each other and keep their relationship intact.

I think that we hear more of the marriages that self-destruct simply because they are more interesting to discuss and the partners are more apt to vent their frustrations to others. People who are happy in their relationships don't tend to talk about it so much.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

It is hugely about lost trust for many GG's, especially after years of knowing one thing and then discovering another. The sheer weight of that shock can literally shatter a wife's love, perhaps forever.

That said, when I joined a few spouse support groups some years back, I was surprised with how many women DO choose to fight for their marriage. I would actually guess most give it a go. There was even a questionnaire we all filled out at one, and the result was less than 10%. actually divorced their crossdressing H. That shocked everyone - even we had assumed at the way everyone talked of their marriages that divorce was common and imminent. Turns out, we're all talk, lol.

I do think though, that finding a woman who is actively looking for a crossdresser will be a bit like a needle in a haystack. I think once we're with you, and have feelings for you, it's easier to feel the loss of the relationship even with this difficulty thrown in (doesn't exactly help the 'telling up front' issue, does it?) As I wrote in my other thread, our self esteem and general world views are challenged by a crossdressing partner. As many here mentioned, imagine if we did the same? I think many men would be very put off, but I also think (hope?) that some here would stay and try and understand? Women might talk in horror and hushed tones about the neighbours dreadful crossdressing husband, but were it their own, I know most wouldn't just run out the door. People are always scathing about something they don't understand...until it happens to them. After all, they married him because he completed her in some way...how can anyone so easily walk away from that? Did they ever truly love him? Even the worst cases will usually try counselling etc, as Nicole mentioned of her ex wife. Sometimes though, it's just not meant to be and that's the same of half the marriages out there.

It's not all bleak, Stephanie. We GG's can struggle with this - a lot. Yes, many will decide that life is easier without crossdressing - often because their H is a selfish, obsessive git who puts dressing before everything else. But I am endlessly uplifted whenever I hear how many women do stay and figure things out. There's way more than you realise. :)

[Mimi]

I fall into the "didn't kick my husband to the curb" category. I love my spouse and I understand that it is not a choice to be transgendered. Our marriage was strong to start with, and Eryn has been honest with me and responsible with finances, as well as striving to be a better partner. I believe that the marriages that don't survive CDing fail due to other issues on the part of one or both members of the marriage--the CDing merely provided the catalyst.

[LaurenS]

I never thought so thoroughly about it before. Hmm.

[Desirae]

I keep hearing this, "what if we (the wife) did the same thing". I don't know if its that big of a deal. I know my ex of about 20 years ago would often run around in my worn-out old sweats and nasty stained t-shirts. She would sometimes not shave her legs for days and days. No makeup. I never said anything to her about that. Ever. It didn't bother me one bit. She was the same person to me. That was just "outside" crap. This was very nearly crossdressing, especially when you count her letting her leg hair GROW. Yeah, she's my ex and we broke up but it wasn't from anything as minor as clothing or even lax personal hygiene (just the leg hair, nothing else).

[Alice Torn]

Sadly, many do believe that "it just is not right". A 78 yr old dear lady friend i have had for 33 yrs, recently got some photos of me dressed up, from another older lady i sent some too. She has not blasted me until a few nights ago. The first time she brought it up. "You are a man, not a woman! Stop trying to be a woman!" I them got off the phone, and am never talking with her again. It seems , so often, that when we do open up about it, Many women will "hanf us by our own petard", a saying Isha uses sometimes.

[candykowal]

I supposed being "kicked to the curb" is a major reason why I am still in the closet.
That fear of loosing a loved one is pretty strong with me.
Why most wives can't handle a CDer in there lives could be a trust issue, if you have been married a long time and finally reveal that inner Diva in you.
What else are you hiding?
Society values are another, ingrained gender roles are hard to change...it takes many decades.

[Jenniferathome]

I... In my personal life all I've ever heard or seen is the marriage is quickly ended. Of course, there are probably many marriages, such as mine, where the "secret" is shared. ...

Do you see the problem in this statement? You're still married, right?

I have written many, many times that marriages breakup because the foundation is broken not simply because of cross dressing. Cross dressing may be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back but read any GG's comments here are you will understand that it is NOT cross dressing but the lying or hedonism that causes the chief problems.

[Ally 2112]

I think some women just feel cheated or embarrsed that they did not get the package they dreamed about as girls wanting to get married .Im pretty sure they imagine getting married to a guy who will be their man at all times not someone who likes to wear a dress or look look a women .I can.t blame them, but on the other hand if he is a good person and loves you and you love him give it a chance it may just work out ? (just my opin ):)

[MelanieAnne]

As a general rule, marriage and crossdressing mix about as well as oil and water. Not placing blame here. Just stating the facts. I would be the first to admit I would not want a manly woman, with mens haircut, hairy legs, etc. For every woman who accepts it, probably a dozen don't. For most of us, crossdressing is a lifelong thing. And it will be far more stressful trying to give it up, than it is just accepting it and enjoying it for what it is. Many have tried to give it up. Few have succeeded. It's like the mob. Once you are in it, you can't get out!:doh:

[Adriana Moretti]

. It's like the mob. Once you are in it, you can't get out!:doh: Thats right....Moretti..wont let you out or I send over my cleanup crew...LOL...kidding...I am single..but this is my 2 cents....girls want a man, a macho man, a real man, a manly man...this kinda thing tarnishes that image and comes with so much baggage and ruins a gals image of what they actually thought we were as males...girls are needy and want attention and need to be the center of everything...when u dress SHE is not the center...its hard for girls to comprehend...SHE is the pretty one...not you...you cant be pretty...She needs to be the one who "does it" for you....our hobby is a tough pill to swallow for them...even though it has nothing to do with how we feel about them at all, but more about what makes US happy...and what girl likes it when you pay attention to yourself instead of her for once? ...just my opinon...again..im single i have no intrest in women anymore...

[Beverley Sims]

Some women will cast us off, others do have an affinity for the person within and know that has not changed after the big reveal.

[Jenniferathome]

.... For every woman who accepts it, probably a dozen don't. ...

Melanie, this perception simply doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Using this site as a sample, you will find that he number of men who state their marriage ended BECAUSE of cross dressing are remarkably few. Most will admit marriages ended for "many" reasons. And frankly, anyone who claims they had a wonderful marriage but divorced BECAUSE of cross dressing alone are delusional. That extreme example would cover only a few cases. No, I would bet that cross dressers divorce no more frequently than the national average.

[Stefanie_Adams]

I was just thinking about this this morning. I haven't been kicked to the curb as of yet but my wife has known for 24 years of 37 together. I was asking myself why is my wife unhappy. let's see 1) Spouse is Transgendered 2) No Sex (my fault) 3) Hates her job 4) Hates where we live. Why is she even still with me, and what can I do to make her happy? P.S. she understands and is only somewhat supportive. The was I see it I am responsible for 50% of her unhappiness not what I wanted for her or myself. Yeah I can understand how they feel when I feel this way. Brought her along on a ride she didn't buy a ticket for.

[Di]

Some, only some women are ready to kick us to the curb.

My sample size is small, but I think when the marriage disintegrates so rapidly, it is not because of the CDing, but something else that can remain hidden now that the CDing is at the fore and becomes a great reason to split.


I fall into the "didn't kick my husband to the curb" category. I love my spouse and I understand that it is not a choice to be transgendered. Our marriage was strong to start with, and Eryn has been honest with me and responsible with finances, as well as striving to be a better partner. I believe that the marriages that don't survive CDing fail due to other issues on the part of one or both members of the marriage--the CDing merely provided the catalyst.

I agree with both of these quotes....if there is problems before then sometimes it is the straw that breaks the camels back.

Personally being involved with a few support groups most wives join us to understand and save the relationship.And although it does happen ( I only know of 3 personally in our group of over a hundred) that it was just black and white stop or I go and no inbetween)

[Bev06 GG]

Mmmm I tend to think that if a marriage splits up there is something else in the back ground not quite right too. If you really love someone you will accept them for who they are not who you want them to be. Cross dressing really isn't the big deal people make it out to be and if you think about it rationally why wouldn't men want to look like us. We are just flipping drop dead gorgeous.

[PaulaQ]

The idea that the revelation of our transness to our spouses can't really shatter a relationship - that really our relationships end for other reasons - drives many from this forum.

It's difficult to sit broken hearted over the loss of your marriage, and be told by the lucky ones who made it:
"Your marriage sucked"
"You had huge problems, you are just unwilling to admit them"
"You should have compromised"

It's very strange to be called "delusional" by those who compare CDing to "the straw that broke the camels back". I'd hope we'd all be honest enough to admit that for a fair number of people in our society, CDing is just not a "straw," this is a non trivial issue. Given the number of women who come to the forum struggling with this issue, I don't think it's terribly realistic to trivialize this issue.

But hey - we like to assert our superiority over the losers in life I guess.

[Simone_40]

Perhaps, because MANY CD's use their dressing as a 'cover' to attract men, and then the wife finds out they had been Gay all their life. ULTIMATE BETRAYAL. Permanent Emotional Damage to the FAITHFUL wife = Ugly Divorce.
And, ultimately, the ex-husband has himself what he wanted to be all along - a W***E with men.

This happened to one of my friends, and he feels extreme guilt over what he did to his wife.
I don't particularly care to be around him anymore, he's only into himself, and no one else matters. Jerk!

I remained faithful to my Beautiful wife, but she just could not tolerate my CD'ing. She once told me that she married a man, not a woman. I miss her.

Kisses, :kiss:
Simone

[Ressie]

Crossdressing may not be a major cause of divorce, but it gives most women second thoughts of continuing a relationship before marriage. And we all know what these thoughts are. Then she'll need to share this with a couple of her girlfriends to see what they think…

It's most honorable to bare one's soul up front, but then the challenge is over. She knows your innermost secrets and it's boring.

[MelanieAnne]

:D
Thats right....Moretti..wont let you out or I send over my cleanup crew...LOL...kidding...I am single..but this is my 2 cents....girls want a man, a macho man, a real man, a manly man...this kinda thing tarnishes that image and comes with so much baggage and ruins a gals image of what they actually thought we were as males...girls are needy and want attention and need to be the center of everything...when u dress SHE is not the center...its hard for girls to comprehend...SHE is the pretty one...not you...you cant be pretty...She needs to be the one who "does it" for you....our hobby is a tough pill to swallow for them...even though it has nothing to do with how we feel about them at all, but more about what makes US happy...and what girl likes it when you pay attention to yourself instead of her for once? ...just my opinon...again..im single i have no intrest in women anymore...

My sentiments exactly. Women know most crossdressing is sexually driven, and they don't want you to have any other outlets for your urges.
Married 17 years. Single for the last 34. Once was enough.:D

[sometimes_miss]

Why are women so quick to kick us to the curb like garbage?
Because they feel betrayed because they feel we deceived them about who we are, they feel cheated because they didn't get the masculine male they thought they had, and of course 'let' us have sex with them (most women still feel that men have to earn our way, as if we should pay for the privilege of having sex with them, you see it in how they speak, and just read any woman's magazine if you don't believe me). Women also get angry especially if they got together with us during their 'prime years', when they had the chance to attract a different, 'real' man instead of us. They feel they have lost their provider and protector (they now feel insecure, not knowing if we'll act like a wussy in the face of danger), they lose face with their friends and relatives because we're considered damaged goods. So it's no surprise that they lash out, and divorce us and want to take out their frustrations and anger by doing bad things to us and taking every cent they can in return for all that suffering they feel they have to put up with.

[Simone_40]

Because they feel betrayed because they feel we deceived them about who we are, they feel cheated because they didn't get the masculine male they thought they had, and of course 'let' us have sex with them (most women still feel that men have to earn our way, as if we should pay for the privilege of having sex with them, you see it in how they speak, and just read any woman's magazine if you don't believe me). Women also get angry especially if they got together with us during their 'prime years', when they had the chance to attract a different, 'real' man instead of us. They feel they have lost their provider and protector (they now feel insecure, not knowing if we'll act like a wussy in the face of danger), they lose face with their friends and relatives because we're considered damaged goods. So it's no surprise that they lash out, and divorce us and want to take out their frustrations and anger by doing bad things to us and taking every cent they can in return for all that suffering they feel they have to put up with.

sometimes_miss,
Well said. I am guilty of this myself. I should have disclosed this fact about myself to my Beautiful wife BEFORE we got married, and I lost her because I failed. I failed miserably.
And, I did cause her great suffering because of my lack of Character.
I paid dearly for what I put her through. I hear that she will never trust another man again because I did mislead her about who I really am.
I DISRESPECTED her.
I miss her.
Kisses,:kiss:
Simone.

[PaulaQ]

My wife would've handled it better had I been simply gay or had an affair with another woman. We'd still have split in the first situation, and probably have survived the second.

FWIW, I sometimes think to myself, as I drive by all the gay bars in my neighborhood, "Why oh why couldn't I just have been gay instead of transgender?"

It's ironic. My wife always worried about losing me to another woman, though I never cheated on her. But in a real sense, she did lose her husband to another woman after all.

[MatildaJ.]

PaulaQ wrote yesterday complaining about
The idea that the revelation of our transness to our spouses can't really shatter a relationship - that really our relationships end for other reasons

But I think there you're conflating CDing and transitioning. I think women don't usually leave over a husband's desire to wear panties under his clothes. I think many women can put up with him having a few outfits and wearing them occasionally. And I think a lot of CDers can survive with that low level of dressing, if they feel they have their wife's support and love.

So if a marriage ends when the CDer reveals a love of panties... that either means he married someone with unusually rigid gender expectations, or that the wife had other reasons for walking away.

But when it becomes clear that the husband prefers dressing at all times, and feels more comfortable as a woman (even if he still says he won't transition)... that's what many fewer straight women will find tolerable. That was your situation. In that case, there's no need to look beyond the gender issues for why the marriage ended. Hope that helps you feel less under attack.

[traci_k]

So, after reading though all these interesting replies, I think we can see that women’s reactions do run the gamut from accepting, of trying to understand, to understanding, to complete non-acceptance For some, yes, the loss of trust is an issue. Yes some see it as being less of a “man.” Understand too that there are some women who see CDing as an addiction that is curable, that leads just as surely to Transexualism as alcohol leads to heroin They see CDing as cavorting with the devil, reject anything but the gender binary, just as they see the earth and universe as 6,000 years old. Since my wife found a pair of panties and skirt several years ago, she has since become a part-time moderator on a Christian fundamentalist board for women whose husbands CD or are TG, considering transition, or transitioning. To them it’s all or nothing and even CDing is the proverbial straw.

I believe I told my wife that I CDed in my prior life, but after getting saved thought I was changed. If only I had found this board back then, I would have known that it is something which almost never goes away. Being older, I understand now why I identified as a girl when I was young. But like many late transitioners, thought that transitioning was never a possibility and was content to think of myself as just a CDer. After working it through with a therapist, I now know better and see transition in my future.

The whole point of this ramble is to say that if you are a CDer or think you might be Transgender, DO NOT get involved with a Christian fundamentalist. They WILL NOT understand and you will have a very short leash and fine line to walk if they do find out and will lead to more deceit, hiding the truth and complete breakdown of the marriage.

Kudos to those GGs who try to understand and those who even stay with their husbands through transition. You are special treasures!

[Jenniferathome]

:D

....Women know most crossdressing is sexually driven, and they don't want you to have any other outlets for your urges. ...

No Melanie, women, don't know jack about cross dressing!

It's not on the radar. They have to do research to even get a grasp of cross dressing. There is zero, widely available, pre-digested information out in the world. It has to be sought. The mistake far too many cross dressers make is assuming that a wife even knows what cross dressing is. Imagine meeting someone from CERN who just expects you to know how the Hadron Collider works. You'd think they were a fool! How could any normal person be expected to know that?!? Now substitute woman and cross dressing for CERN and Hadron Collider and you have the same result.

Jess, very important distinction you pointed out. cross dressing and transsexualism are like the earth and mars. Way different.

[PaulaQ]

It's not like earth and mars at all.

Cross dressing is one of the most commonly reported preliminary symptoms of transsexualism. The only time you, me, or any professional can tell the difference is AFTER the point at which the transsexual either begins to transition, or is in such distress that transition is inevitable. That is, you can only tell after the fact.

[Kristina_nolagirl]

I just love it when people who think they are scientists take the worlds smallest sample size (just their life) and assume that is the way it is. NOT! It's so freaking ridiculous.

For lack of a better saying, I'll say people are like snowflakes, no 2 are exactly the same. Each person is shaped by their genetic disposition and their life experiences. On one end, there are women who will never accept a crossdressing husband and in the opposite end are women who try to turn their husband into a crossdresser because they like it. 98% of us fall somewhere in the middle of these 2 extremes.

I just got off the phone 20 mins ago with my wife who was crying about the blog post I made on my blog about crossdressing. Not sad tears, but happy ones. She said and I quote "I love Chris and Kristina so much! If either of you ever leave me, I'm coming with you." We talk about how my crossdresding has created some unique issues to deal with but overall has brought us closer together than we ever imagined. I can say without a doubt in my mind that it truly has.

That being said, I do put her needs and desires over mine and I don't over do the crossdressing. In turn, she put me over her. So many people get an inch of acceptance and take a mile. If you over do it with crossdrsssing, alcohol, stamp collecting or anything else your going to run into problems - that's relationships 101.

I'm sure I'll get the typical response from some of the baby boomers here. "You were born in a different time, our generation is different. Women of our generation are not accepting." That more bull. Get out of your little tunnel and read here or many other places online and you will see many happy marriages with crossdressing husbands - of all ages. I read both ends and usually come to the conclusion that a good majority of the "woe-was-me my wife won't love the crossdressing me" people don't realize that they in fact are the problem - not their wife!

There's my rant...hope everyone has an amazing 4th of July!

[Ressie]

LOL Kristina, you just posted what I was thinking.

Though there are similarities, every CD is unique. Every women's reaction to her spouse CDing is also a little different. It's good that we can relate our own experiences with these matters, but it ain't scientific data. It's pretty much opinion based on experience or what one has read on the internet. There are some women that would freak at their man just wearing panties for example. And do most CDs really assume that women know anything about crossdressing? I find that they don't hardly know the difference between a CD and TS because it has nothing to do with their world. So for those CDs that assume women in general have in depth knowledge of CDing please raise your hand.

[Sandra]

Stephanie47

I didn't kick my So to the curb, and contrary to what other GGs have said not all GGs are like that especially here on the forum, just a few that can't understand or get their heads round the idea, which is fine no one should be forced, but what they need to remember is to not lump all GGs together,

[Marcelle]

. . . We talk about how my crossdresding has created some unique issues to deal with but overall has brought us closer together than we ever imagined. I can say without a doubt in my mind that it truly has. . . . I'm sure I'll get the typical response from some of the baby boomers here.

Kristina . . . baby boomers (my wife and I) here (albeit tail end) and I echo your sentiment. Since coming out to my wife she went through the "Huh?" phase to the "Really?" phase and finally the "Understanding/Acceptance" phase. Definitely some unique issues cropped up during my journey this past year but we have met them and our relationship is much stronger. I asked her recently about how she was feeling about my CDing and our relationship. Her reply (roughly quoted) "I have to admit it was a bit odd at first and given hind sight I would not have imagined this 24 years ago when we married. However in the past year I feel as though I got the man I married back, fun loving and happy" For some background for those who do not know my story, the five years before I came out to my wife (last year) were dark times indeed and while supressed CDing tendencies may have been floating around in there, the dark angry days were attributable to life and my occupation and we were drifting apart. CDing has rekindled a bond between us and we have both embraced it in our lives.

So I am one whose wife has not kicked me to the curb. :)

Hugs

Isha

[Tamara Croft]

Out of all the posts here, what sometimes_miss wrote bugged me the most, it felt like all the CD'ers were lumped into the same basket and all GG's are unaccepting. How wrong you are! First of all, I knew within a couple of months what my SO was, yes it was weird, hurt a bit etc... took me a while to get used to it, had a few bumps in the road, but not ONCE did I ever feel my man wasn't man enough to protect me, I know he is, whether in jeans or a skirt, he would defend me to the moon and back.

The problem is with some GG's who are still unaccepting is, they join sites that bash CD'ers, take in all what these vicious wives are saying and most of the time end up bitter and divorced. Then they join this forum and bring that crap with them, constantly bringing down CD'ers because they were hurt by ONE person, not by people here, but they continue down this bitter road until one day it will eat them up and they will be 6 foot under.

That thread 'why do you need us' I actually thought was quite harsh, more or less saying CD'ers aren't human and do not deserve to be loved... actually it's quite mean!

If a GG is unaccepting of her man being a CD'er, I wonder how she would like being kicked to the curb for it... (yes I am a GG), it's just clothes, makeup etc... something most women wear, so why not a man?? just because he has male parts?? really?? :rolleyes:

[sometimes_miss]

Out of all the posts here, what sometimes_miss wrote bugged me the most, it felt like all the CD'ers were lumped into the same basket and all GG's are unaccepting.
Tamara, there will always be exceptions to the 'rules'. I didn't come up with the theories of human dynamics in sexual attraction. I just spent years reading every single thing I could find about it after my misguided assumption that all the good things about me would somehow negate the crossdressing, and MY WIFE kicked ME to the curb, blackmailing me while doing it. It's nice to come here and be accepted; sure. But we also have to live in the real world, and I offer up what knowledge I've found in hopes that it will help everyone understand what goes on between men and women when it comes to the mating dance, and all the subconscious feelings that we often ignore and just chalk up to 'chemistry'.


If a GG is unaccepting of her man being a CD'er, I wonder how she would like being kicked to the curb for it... (yes I am a GG), it's just clothes, makeup etc... something most women wear, so why not a man?? just because he has male parts?? really??
No matter how much progress we make becoming accepted and tolerated, the real challenge will to be overcoming thousands of generations of evolutionary development which apparently predisposes females to be attracted to the alpha male traits, and turn off sexually towards men with feminine characteristics. Attraction is not a choice, easily seen in the millions of women who stay with men who treat them like dirt, with the tired chant of 'because I love him'. We can act on that attraction or not. But it's almost always impossible to get turned on by someone that has something about them that turns us off. I don't hold women's feelings of being turned off by crossdressing against them by any means. I really don't think it's a conscious decision, any more than men being almost universally attracted primarily to women with waist hip ratios of around 70% is (again, not my theory, but researched in modern psychology). I don't think a woman can force herself to become turned on to a crossdresser any more than a man can force himself to get an erection while thinking of someone who he isn't attracted to.

[Tamara Croft]

and MY WIFE kicked ME to the curb, blackmailing me while doing it.

Wow, what a nasty person :sad: (I can think of other names but they aren't nice)... I don't understand that at all, how a woman who is supposed to love their man, turns into such a vile creature because of crossdressing?? Me and my OH have had our ups and downs, we've split up a few times, but not ONCE have I ever outed him to anyone, I wouldn't dream of it. It takes a nasty vindictive bitch to do that and whilst I may come across that way sometimes, I'm really not :) I'm so sorry this happened to you, I hope you sorted things out and are in a better place, no one should have to put up with that, or put up with being told what they can and cannot do, or wear or shave etc... I think it's silly and childish.

[Michelle789]

Sometimes_miss - I'm really sorry to hear about what happened with your wife, it is indeed a terrible thing to do. It shows that women really want a masculine man in their life, not a woman (TS) or someone who is feminine or could potentially be a woman (CD). The fact that a woman will kick a CDer to the curb, yet allow a man to beat her, rape her, drink away their money, forbid her to see her friends, slave drive her with errands to run all day, throw her head into a hot oven, call her dirty names, and yell and scream at her, tells me a lot. Women really do want a manly man, and apparently when men show any of these forms of abuse, they're still being men, but a CDer who does none of them is being a woman, therefore, you're kicked to the curb. Also, all of those abusive behaviors can be potentially stopped, even though in practice it really is a long shot. CDing can never be stopped, the desire to dress only gets stronger.

Amazingly, lots of women will be friends with a CDer or a TS, but not romantically. I guess CDers are really viewed as women by other women, hence a woman will be friends with a woman, but not date a woman.

I think straight women view CDers as women, and lesbian women view CDers (and apparently TSes too) as men, and bisexual women view CDers as both.

[Stephanie47]

I came back to read the responses. Interesting! I will say, Sandra, please read the entire content of the post when commenting. Of course, the lure to the post may suggest exclusiveness. However, in the post I do mention my marriage of over four decades has not ended in divorce, separation or hostility, and, many as well.


Stephanie47

I didn't kick my So to the curb, and contrary to what other GGs have said not all GGs are like that especially here on the forum, just a few that can't understand or get their heads round the idea, which is fine no one should be forced, but what they need to remember is to not lump all GGs together,

[Badwolf]

It's a complicated issue but the core of the problem lies in two things.

1. The T part of the spectrum is barely visible, and often misunderstood.
2. There is a serious trust issue when a life commitment has been made by someone who is hiding something that can change a lot in the way lives were expected to be lived.

There are a ton of issues women face as well that can exacerbate the problem by mislabeling the problem or causing false choices as the only solution they can see, but all of those are moot points if your goal is to try to seize the opportunity to change the situation. The current amount of exposure of specifically Transexuals makes it just that much more confusing for people to believe that there are substantial numbers of straight cross dressers out there.

[Tamara Croft]

I will say, Sandra, please read the entire content of the post when commenting.

Are you for real? The question was 'why are women so quick to kick us to the curb?' Sandra was replying that she didn't kick her SO to the curb, just exactly what else should she have read before commenting? I think you need to go to spec savers :eek:

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Stephanie, Some women don't like the competition .>>>>Disregard the last comment.

I was taken to the woodshed by the Admin, Lesson learned.

[Tamara Croft]

Some women don't like the competition .And those types of comments are what pisses GG's off, there is no competition, you're a man in a dress, get real!

[hope springs]

There isnt any hard data on CD/SO relationship dynamics. Every post here is one data point filtered through bias, life experiences and opinion.
I read this thread and the ones at crossdresserwives.com... at CDW some common adjectives were: disgust, betrayal, lies, delusional and deceit. Right or wrong they were pissed and bitter. Someone at CDW even referenced this site and said "... they act as if its the most normal thing in world".
I know its not normal. Woman have needs and expectations of their man. Whether a CDing man can satisfy those needs is up to each INDIVIDUAL woman. Someone in this thread said put your SO first... i agree. There cannot be a pink fog if you respect your SO's feelings, and they respect yours. That respect should help prevent you from going overboard, and they respecting yours should provide you with time to dress.
Yes we put on skirts. That shouldnt prevent us from doing our manly duties. (However that is defined in your situation). But i will not tolerate being thought of as " less than" because of said skirt. If you cant see through that bra to my heart than shame on you. And the relationship should end. If your willing to try, then great. Lets do it with mutual respect. Anything less and both the CD and the SO are diminshed as a person

[Sandra]

I came back to read the responses. Interesting! I will say, Sandra, please read the entire content of the post when commenting.

Umm I answered your question, guess it seems that you are not bothered that other GGs here have lumped us all together and didn't want me to say so.


Hi Stephanie, Some women don't like the competition

OMG don't make me laugh...really what is there to be in competition for?

[Di]

I came back to read the responses. Interesting! I will say, Sandra, please read the entire content of the post when commenting. Of course, the lure to the post may suggest exclusiveness. However, in the post I do mention my marriage of over four decades has not ended in divorce, separation or hostility, and, many as well.

So if I am reading this correctly you are on about your ex and not your wife......how sad.
Your ex sounds by the way you said - horrible things she did not a very nice person.....I sure would not lump all other GGs with them as kicking to the curb....more she was just not a nice person by the cruel things she did.
Sandra adressed her personal pov on KICKING TO THE CURB.....

And while we are at it....all the posters in here saying they have wives that accept/ ignored
All of us GG mods here/ support/ignored
Our 2 Fab admin support
ALL our over 100 Fab members that are here to learn and support

But posts from a few
The problem is with some GG's who are still unaccepting is, they join sites that bash CD'ers, take in all what these vicious wives are saying and most of the time end up bitter and divorced. Then they join this forum and bring that crap with them, constantly bringing down CD'ers because they were hurt by ONE person, not by people here, but they continue down this bitter road until one day it will eat them up and they will be 6 foot under.


Granted the Fab do not hang out too much in this section ( my guess hate seeing all the sex with men while dressed threads) and concentrate on their own hubbys . Just saying why take the posts of a few unhappy GGs as what all GGs think.

AND BEFORE I AM JUMPED ON AGAIN YES A FEW LEAVE AND I AM SORRY FOR YOU but I am talking about what I see in general here at the forum.

[KatieGG]

Let me start off by saying the whole "competition" argument is garbage. Yes some men and a lot on this board look and present themselves very well but at the end of the day you are still a dude in a dress.

Now that I got that out of the way, my guess would be lost trust. Especially for the wives who find out years later or catch their husband in the act. I would never end my marriage over something as petty as clothing but I could see why some women would not be able to get passed it. From a young age we are told men act this way and women act that way, and when men act that way we are told there is something wrong with them or they must be gay, which obviously is not true.

I had the benefit of knowing what I was getting into before me and my husband really started dating so it was a lot different for me. We explored it together and I have been with him every step of the way. I do not see anything wrong with it, he was always open and honest about it and that all you can really ask.

[sometimes_miss]

Cross dressing may be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back but read any GG's comments here are you will understand that it is NOT cross dressing but the lying or hedonism that causes the chief problems.
The whole concept that lying, deceit, etc being the major cause strikes me as just one way that GG's want to avoid the argument that the crossdressing is the cause. Women like to be seen as tolerant too. However....there are multiple millions of women all over the planet that stay with, or even start dating men that they don't trust. The whole bad boy phenomenon is an easy example; they know going in that the guy is a liar and a cheat, yet find him attractive anyway, and THAT happens all the time, every day, in every town on the planet. Now compare: Because that's not a common occurrance with crossdressing though, now, is it? NOPE. Crossdressing is the relationship killer. It's one thing that the vast majority of women simply can't accept n 'her man', because, well, he's no longer ALL man in her mind.

It's sexual attraction. With it, women (and even men) will very often do anything to stay together, even going back to the man they love even knowing that he's going to kill her. Without it, and it's splitsville.

Take away the sexual attraction, THEN add in the lying, deceit, etc. to create anger, and she's free to hate, because you've destroyed the life she thought she had, and very often, there's no way to find another guy to start over again. Makes for one very pissed off woman.

Anyone doesn't believe that they'd leave once the sexual attraction is gone, well guys (especially everyone who considers himself a straight crossdresser), consider this.
You come home from work, and find your wife has cut all her hair off, and has a crew cut. Has thrown away all her bras and panties, all her feminine stuff, every dress every skirt every slip is gone, replaced with flannel shirts, jeans, jockey shorts, work boots. She's decided to wear men's clothing exclusively for the rest of her life, because she's been hiding her feelings from you for such a long time. She has entered the local vo tech school to become a plumber. She will wear traditional old spice after shave, and use topical rogain so she can grow a nice mustache which will help her feel like who she 'really is'. No more shaving her legs. She will live her daily life in 'guy mode' just like we enjoy our days when we can be in 'girl mode'. She is, however, adamant that she's not gay, she still wants to have sex with you, but she simply want's the roles reversed so that she can feel normal.

How long would you remain in that relationship? Forget that you don't feel that what you are doing is the same because you don't do it all the time; because it's not about how you look, it's about how she feels about you, and once she's seen you in a dress, you're simply no longer the manly man any more. She is really the same women you married, just being honest about who she really is, after all. She's still the same woman who will continue to take care of her children, care for you when you're sick, etc.. It's just the sex side that will be different, because now YOU'RE in the position so many women have lived with, sex now sucks to be you, she finishes, gives you a quick kiss, and then rolls over, tired from being the active one during sex, and goes to sleep.

I don't think I have to add any more.

[donnalee]

My disagreement is with the whole idea that SOs of any kind have no right to personal privacy. When I was brought up, there were 2 things a gentleman did not ask a lady:
1. Her age.
2. Her weight.

It would be he height of rudeness to do so.
I knew my SO was older than I when we first got together. This was insignificant beside the facts:
1. She was drop dead gorgeous.
2. Very smart and artistic.(and a fantastic cook; any cuisine, including her native Japanese)
3. Totally charming.
4. Dressed well with great taste in everything.
5. Loved and understood the music I played, listened to and loved.
6. She had the most melodious voice I've ever heard, before or since.
When she retired and turned out to be 5 or maybe 6 years older than previously stated, I didn't even blink. She was who she was, the person I loved most in the world and it made no difference to me.
When I discovered I was TG at age 60 she was the only person I let know and it never affected our relationship in any way (by that time we had been together nearly 40 years).
Conclusion (yeah I know, small sample): If she really loves you, it will make no difference in how she feels about you.

Mmmm I tend to think that if a marriage splits up there is something else in the back ground not quite right too. If you really love someone you will accept them for who they are not who you want them to be. Cross dressing really isn't the big deal people make it out to be and if you think about it rationally why wouldn't men want to look like us. We are just flipping drop dead gorgeous.I agree with the entire statement, especially the last sentence. The one thing I never got was how women could be attracted to men in the 1st place; how men can be attracted to men passes my understanding even more, yet it occurs, none the less, quite frequently.

[Jenniferathome]

The whole concept that lying, deceit, etc being the major cause strikes me as just one way that GG's want to avoid the argument that the crossdressing is the cause. ....

You've gone off the deep end. I can't even quote the nonsense you wrote. You failed to include that they also become Nazis! Come one. Any extreme, ridiculous, and nonsensical examples are just a waste of electrons. You are in denial. You WANT cross dressing to be the source of your issues but it is your narcissism, not the cross dressing. OUT!

[Nadine Spirit]

I don't think I have to add any more.

I am bothered with myself for taking the time to read your ridiculousness.

Come to think of it, I probably should have just stayed out of this thread entirely. To the OP, your entire premise is completely off base, women are not quick to kick us to the curb.

[Katey888]

Keep it clean everyone.... :rulez:

This thread might be seen as controversial but it's raising some interesting points and perspectives without it getting personal and it's right on the edge now.

Everyone has a right to their perspective and opinion here - if it gets any more personal and pointed those posts will be deleted.

Katey
Moderator

[Ressie]

Isn't it possible that some women go along with the CDing at first because they're not ready to end the relationship instantly? Add two more strikes against the relationship along the way and you're outa there!

It's true that everything about one's outer appearance is about sex appeal. That includes hairstyle, clothing, physique, facial and body hair etc. If your SO found you sexually attractive as a man it's understandable that she would dislike the female side. "Kick to the curb like garbage" sounds extreme but apparently that has been the experience of some. Sexual attraction is an important ingredient in a relationship.

[Nadine Spirit]

It has been the experience of some, but it is doubtful that we know their full stories. And just because it may have happened to some does not mean that is what happens with everyone.

It is concerning, in my opinion, for those sisters who are in the closet. This idea is what keeps many of them there. They are positive that is what will happen, because it has happened to some, thus that is the way GGs will respond.

I ate a carrot once, and then got into a car wreck. Thus we should ban carrots because carrots cause car wrecks.

[Tina_gm]

My wife has not kicked me to the curb. In fact she is working real hard as am I to build a better life for us with our move. By putting such an effort in it appears she is not looking to jump ship in the near future. My wife by the way came from a very religious conservative background. Yes this can be difficult for her at times. But I am not curb bound.

[Badwolf]

I agree with everyone who doesn't see the competition argument.

While the "guy in a dress" argument has it's weaknesses. Some that present well, some GG's might not even know it. In the end this just comes off as a derogatory comment.

But in the end CDers are a drop in the bucket, plus in terms of a relationship, you two are in theory a partnership. Especially if your interested in her exclusively there is no one you could steal, and you'd hope there wasn't any potential candidates anyways.

[sometimes_miss]

You've gone off the deep end. I can't even quote the nonsense you wrote. You failed to include that they also become Nazis! Come one. Any extreme, ridiculous, and nonsensical examples are just a waste of electrons. You are in denial. You WANT cross dressing to be the source of your issues but it is your narcissism, not the cross dressing. OUT!

I understand that as someone with a supportive spouse, you find it hard to believe that there are any women out there that would find crossdressing to be completely unacceptable in a husband, but I assure you, a huge percentage of them do. Otherwise many of us here would still be married, or gotten married again. While you may think me a narcissistic ass, most women do not. I've never had any problem attracting women, I simply cannot find one who likes and is sexually attracted to crossdressers. And I don't think my experience is at all unusual for other crossdressers.

[Melissa_59]

Right you are Kate . . . got my umbrella and rain jacket.

Phffft! I'm getting my rocking chair and popcorn!

~Mel

[PaulaQ]

I understand that as someone with a supportive spouse, you find it hard to believe that there are any women out there that would find crossdressing to be completely unacceptable in a husband, but I assure you, a huge percentage of them do. Otherwise many of us here would still be married, or gotten married again.

That's one of the astounding things to me - there is a big disconnect between the perceptions of those with accepting spouses, and those with non-accepting (ex)spouses. I haven't seen any research on this that I believe in terms of statistical evidence, but peruse any dating site that allows searches for TG folks and you'll find very few women who actively seek a transgender partner. (Be they CD / TS / whatever.) You can find plenty of lesbian women who seek other women. (And some of them are OK with TS women.) But given how few straight girls seem to be interested in us, I'm inclined to believe that non-acceptance is the more common reaction.

[Angie G]

My wife now knows for the past 8 years how out of 46 years married. And is so O.K. with it she buys me little thing like earrings blouses she even ordered my breast forms.:hugs:
Angie

[Ressie]

WfT on Craig's list is barren. Zero women looking for TG in my area.

We all have different life experience and some of our stories may seem unbelievable to those that can't relate. So they say nonsense, ridiculous etc. There's been generalizing on this subject by the OP and others with the opposing view.

How many people lived a few years of their life in St. Louis (for example) and loved it, while others had the worst experience there? A lot would depend on what your neighbors were like, what your coworkers and boss were like among many other variables. But it would also depend on yourself, how people react to you and how you react to others. Trying to simplify or generalize CDing and relationships isn't gonna work.

[kimdl93]

Ok, my turn. Here is another possible factor in why some marriages survive the revelation of CDing, or even that a partner is TS: some couples may have better communications skills, are more open minded, are simply more in tune with and kinder to each other, unburdened as a result of upbringing or experience by rigid gender definitions, emotionally self confident and self assured, and I could go one.

And if either partner lacks these and other capacities, then any marriage, whether it involves CDing or transgenderism or not, can fall victim to its inherent flaws. Let's not forget that in our society, perhaps 50% of all marriages fail.

[MatildaJ.]

sometimes_miss wrote (roughly)
I assure you, a huge percentage of women find crossdressing to be completely unacceptable in a husband.

I think there are plenty of women who can handle their husband wearing panties. I think there are plenty who can handle a husband who dresses for a sexual thrill when he's by himself, a couple of times a month. But when people jump in with comments like:

very few women actively seek a transgender partner

and


Zero women looking for TG in my area.

That's not really the same thing. I don't think we would keep having this debate if people would stick to reasonable positions.

A reasonable position is: most women can put up with a small amount of CDing in an otherwise attractive husband. But for most of those accommodating women, the CDing is still a negative (so they don't post ads looking for it!) and the more time the guy wants to spend dressed as a woman, or involving her, or potentially getting caught out in public, the more likely the woman is to walk away.

An unreasonable position is: No women are actively seeking CD/TV, therefore only a tiny minority of women will put up with a man wearing panties.

Most straight men will put up with their wives doing a small amount of decorating & redecorating the house. And some will even get excited and participate with her, strengthening the marriage. But most men don't go looking for wives who redecorate, and most men have a breaking point, when too much time & money is being spent redecorating and the man can't handle it and leaves.

[PaulaQ]

A reasonable position is: most women can put up with a small amount of CDing in an otherwise attractive husband. But for most of those accommodating women, the CDing is still a negative (so they don't post ads looking for it!) and the more time the guy wants to spend dressed as a woman, or involving her, or potentially getting caught out in public, the more likely the woman is to walk away.


How do you get "most?" Do we know any actual statistics? I've never said that only a tiny minority of women can put up with a CD - there's plenty of evidence to the contrary. My only point is that I think it's reasonable to draw the conclusion that very few cis women view being TG (either CD or TS) as a desirable trait in a partner. This suggests to me that many women likely view this as an undesirable trait, really.

I don't see how this suggests that most women can ultimately tolerate a CD partner. With enough emotional investment, many women can put up with a CD - at least for some value of "put up with", that seems clear - there's evidence of that. (Women put up with a LOT from men, actually.) How many women struggle with this seems fairly evident to me - most of the sites I've looked on do not seem to feature as many women who are really happy with their CD spouse, as opposed to those who struggle with it. They may stay married - but how happy are these relationships? There seems to be lots marital strife around this issue. ("DADT" seems particularly unpleasant to my mind.)

I think there are plenty of women who have a pretty strong negative reaction to CDing. There would almost have to be, given how few seek this out. (BTW, some women do seek out MtF TG's - usually TS, but sometimes CDs. It's just seems to be really rare, and often associated with specific fetishes.

[MatildaJ.]

Yes, CDing is generally undesirable to women, but that just makes it a handicap. It doesn't make it an automatic deal-breaker.

[PaulaQ]

@JessM. - fair enough I can agree with that. It's a pretty sizable handicap though, seems to me.

Oddly enough, it wouldn't bother me to date a CD. I think it could be fun. I don't know if I'll ever have that opportunity, though.

[Aprilrain]

I started dating my ex boyfriend knowing he was a CDer, I didn't have a problem with it, I just didn't want to go out on the town with him dressed as a woman. He was upfront with me about the CDing and I was upfront with him about my boundaries. He, like a lot of CDers, had very mixed emotions about the CDing. On the one hand he was compelled to do it, on the other he was ashamed and just wanted it to go away. This ceaseless battle reared it's ugly head in other aspects of his life. Even though I knew about the CDing and was generally ok with it he still lied about it and tried to hide it. Even that was tolerable as I figured he was just struggling with shame. I'd bring up the topic on occasion and try to reassure him, I'd ask if he wanted to dress, if he wanted to go out (he had another CD friend he could have gone out with), if he wanted to wear girly things to bed. He would get all embarrassed and change the subject or just refuse to talk about it. He basically refused to deal with it. I suggested therapy, nope. I suggested a support group, nope. I'm sticking to the CDing specifically but this type of undealt with issue weaves it's way into every aspect of a persons life and it showed in his. It just got tiring. It wasn't CDing really that drove me away it was how it affected him and his unwillingness to deal with it.

[Badwolf]

See April and all the GG's commenting:

While you are completely right to view this from the outside, that we sometimes start not talking about certain emotions. If you were to put yourselves in our shoes there is a very different set of mismatched signals that makes it hard to really feel comfortable. These signals send out opposing messages that make it hard to really resolve.

To be honest one of the root emotions is the fear of losing someone we've probably already grown to love, or at least care about. They are also telling us they really care about us as well. Then comes the biggest problem which is a lack of real empathy when a person who says they will share their life with you, won't be seen with you in a situation you're already stressed about. It feels like a lack of support. If the situation were to be presented to the world at large may not actually help, because the average public still has the gut reaction of "oh you dress as a woman, so you like men". So they will focus on solving the cross dressing as the problem and not the relationship itself. The times where I've felt this I honestly feel like we BOTH need to resolve issues in order to have a long term supporting relationship, and while the SO is so ready to jump on me going to find counseling, she sits on a high horse of "normality", and only puts in the effort to placate me without showing an appreciation for the COMPLETE version of myself.

Personally I have patience waiting to see if we can start working it out before I know it's over, but sometimes it just won't work. That is because it isn't really only our shame that is showing, it is also a mirror of the shame our SO's have in not wanting to really love parts of us. It means that when we buy something new, in the back of our minds we're worried if our SO is going to say we're spending too much money on something that is for our respective pleasure only, or even worse that our SO may think we're suddenly "going too far" and break it off. Sometimes waiting for that, is easier than you going first and then dealing with the angry EX with unresolved issues about our private life.

Just a quick anecdote to cap this rant off. With my SO I once asked her if I could wear a pair of heels to a concert while presenting fully male. She said ok. In the end she worried so much about being "found out" that she didn't enjoy it, and now I feel bad to ask her if I can do ANYTHING similar. This was all in contrast to how many people were surprised, but generally gave positive comments throughout the night. She now asks me why I don't tell her about certain things, or why I don't just simply get dressed, when I have the urge as if it's me who's frustrating myself. She is taking steps forward in accepting the whole me, and we are defining our lines so I still feel like applying my patience to the overall problem, but by no means will I ever accept that I don't dress just because I'm ashamed. I do it to make sure we have room to work on our lines, while we figure out if this can be a permanent thing.


Yes, CDing is generally undesirable to women, but that just makes it a handicap. It doesn't make it an automatic deal-breaker.

Yours is one of the few that doesn't even fit with my rant; so I just wanted to say I agree completely. It's a handicap, but we can also be handicapable by being that much more awesome.

:daydreaming:

[Frédérique]

Why are women so quick to kick us to the curb like garbage?

Perhaps, just perhaps, LOVE isn’t all it’s cracked-up to be? :idontknow:


My wife told me she probably would have divorced me when she realized I was a cross dresser, except for the fact she had disclosed to me her life prior to she and I meeting. It was not pretty.

Case in point. Every young person I meet I tell them to NOT get married. Stay an individual, I say. Don't tell them that at school, BTW... :naughty

PS - At times like this I always revert to the OP...

[JamieG]

I think we all need to understand that we cannot generalize from our own experiences. Each person on this site has their own true story: some (very few) wives actually like the crossdressing, some tolerate it, and some can't get past it. It's also true that some CDers are very kind and respectful of their spouses, others are narcissistic A-holes, and many of us fall somewhere inbetween.

I don't think the OP meant to imply that all "wives will kick us to the curb," but it seems clear that at least some will. If you doubt that, take a look at the forum on the "crossdressers' wives" site (*). Many of these women refer to crossdressing as an abomination, as an addiction, that thinking about it makes them suicidal, that CDs are "repellent, damaged people", etc. the negativity makes me want to puke. These are not the words of wives who are likely to tolerate any CDing at all. Instead, either the marriage is over or the CD goes underground and pretends that they have "kicked the habit," spiraling into depression.

I am one of the lucky ones. My wife is very supportive these days, but when I first told her (a year after we married) there was a dark period of a few months where there was a good chance that we would separate. Even though my wife was basically a tolerant person (she had two close gay friends), she had trouble dealing with a husband who was a CD. She even said, "If you were just a friend, I could deal with this, but not in my husband." Fortunately, we kept talking and I eventually regained her love and trust.

* To clarify, I am not talking about the SO forum here, which of course I am not privy to. We are fortunate on this forum to have SOs who are at least trying, and of course many of them are some of our biggest allies.

[Stephanie47]

Thank you Jamie. Even in my original post I annotated as Frederique highlighted (#79) that my wife did not "kick me to the curb." It was a lure to get some responses, which it has.