"I'm a better CDer than you because..."

[Wildaboutheels]

Or how about...

"It's more serious for me because"...

"It's harder for me because"...

People don't ever come right out and say it, but it's often intimated here that AGE is some kind of key. And/or it makes one more "authentic" somehow. "I started dressing at 4 or 5 or __________ so I MUST HAVE been born this way" or something to that effect. Others will also flatly insist that Nurture has nothing to do with CDing... in essence, declaring that the countless hundreds who have declared here over the years that NURTURE did [in fact strongly] affect their CDing... are all Liars.

Maybe some people just do not realize that it's NATURAL for "children" to be curious? About all manner of things. It's how we best learn. By DOING/trying things.

And do MOST folks really think they can "accurately" remember the where/when/why from perhaps 20, 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years ago when they can't even remember what they had for lunch just 24 hours ago?

Does it matter when someone started dressing or not?

Isn't it even POSSIBLE that some here did actually first "dress" at 4 or 5 or 6 but DON'T even remember?

[Emi_]

Cross-dressers are essentiallly males. Read any number orf threads and a lot of people claim that cross-dressing is just a "side" of thenselves and not their whole personality - hence, they are mostly male. Males are competitive - call it part of the biological imperative to mate and procreate. It is therefore not at all surprising to see cross-dressed males attempt to outdo themselves and to use any basis to prove their superiority.

In short, boys will be boys, even in dresses. Anyone for a round of "queen of the hill?"

[Samantha_Smile]

Does it matter? Probably not.
And yes, it's possible, but if you don't remember doing it then I'm not sure it will have had any effect on your psychological composition.
We are a product of genetics and memories (or should I say, alterations in behaviours as a response to memories) so while possible, I'm not sure it matters, or what you seem to be annoyed with?
:(

[Deedee Skyblue]

Samantha, I don't think whether you remember something is a major factor in whether it had an effect on your psychological disposition. I am pretty sure that my mom dressing me as a little Dutch girl before my first birthday had a major effect on me as far as my desire to dress, but I don't remember it. I think a LOT of your psychological disposition is developed in the very early years of your life that you don't consciously remember later.

Deedee

[Renee Elise]

No, doesn't matter at all. If you enjoy makeup and donning clothes typically associated with women / looking feminine instead of your traditional masculine image, than the how / when / why you started is irrelevant. You still have to deal with all of the initial fear and confusion if it's something you enjoy doing...

[kimdl93]

I do lean very strongly towards the nature vs nurture camp, primarily though, because the science leans that way. The 'evidence' of recollection is usually given for nature, for the influence of experience.

We may cite an experience as evidence for early recognition that something was different, or as evidence of some life changing event. Neither that, nor some apparently vivid recollection of a pivotal event by itself is proof. And yes, recollectionis a highly questionable data point. And some people's memories are even less reliable than others. That apples to equally to all early recollections. The evidence suggests that people's minds fill in the huge gaps in even recent memory, just as our brains fill in the blinds spot in vision where our optic nerve connects with retina.

In the endless discussion of why, recollections provide little of value and always beg the question. Why did that experience so indelibly affect person A but not 98 people who had seemingly identical experince.

[Amy07]

Very nice reading this room, you all must be friends, locked in, without much debate.
American, constitutional conservative, like to dress and chat.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi WAH, I may not remember yesterdays lunch menu, But I do remember dabbling in this program at a very early age.

[Michelle (Oz)]

How can I forget having the zipper stuck on my sister's dress with no way of getting the dress off? I had to be rescued by my sister. That was 55 years ago but indelibly imprinted for life!

That said, who cares?

[ShelbyDawn]

Memory is a very curious thing. My understanding is that we have what I have heard referred to as associative memory which means our brains puts things in categories or groups and in fact merges similar memories into one general memory. This is not to say that we do not remember specific events but rather suggest that some memories, especially the older ones are probably a collection of different similar events. As an example, I very distinctly remember, and can actually see the events in my mind, an instance of a family trip involving my older brother when he was half way across the country at the time.
How does this relate to the topic at hand, well, I also remember very clearly beginning to play with my moms clothes before I entered elementary school and also remember very clearly it feeling 'right.' I believe that the experimentation occurred and I also believe the memory is 'enhanced' with other similar events, probably later in life, that supported that behavior in a positive way or at least gave me some type of gratification for dressing.

I also believe that the ability to remember is impacted greatly by the force of the events on our lives. I was in a bus accident when I was 12 and to this day, I can remember the explicit detail of the accident and can corroborate those memories with others that I still know that were on the bus with me.

I guess my point is this; whether or not we remember when we started dressing very few of us actually know for certain after all these years and regardless of the factual validity of those memories, they have had a much greater impact on our lives that what we had for breakfast last week.

Which means:
Does it matter when someone started dressing, I'd say no.
Is it possible that some started very early and don't remember, absolutely.

What makes me a better CD than everybody else - Well, in my opinion, it would be because I am happy with who I am both as a crossdresser and in drab and quite frankly, "the global Your" opinion of me is none of my business any way which means the only opinion I have to worry about is mine. So there. :)

[Teresa]

WAH.,
I have clear recollections of my life as a child at the age of three when we lived in Malta !
Early school learning was all parrot fashion and that sticks ! The memories of my first dressing are indelible because it affected me sexually for the rest of my life ! I feel you are correct on the fallacy of nurturing, the only outside influence on me was the thought of the GF I had at that time ( 8-9yrs.old. ).

As for being the best CDer, compared with what ? I don't dress to enjoy it better or to look better than anyone else ! I don't want to be a King or Queen of any hill ! I would just like to share the intimacy and the happiness I feel when dressed with my wife, but sadly that's not going to happen !!

[Kate Simmons]

I only know that it's natural for "me" to be "me" Hon. If that includes CDing so be it. ;):)

[Tinkerbell-GG]

I like what Emi wrote. I've always thought there's a very competitive male edge here :)

And of course crossdressing can be about nurture. Any behavior we humans form can be caused by some fleeting moment in childhood that we have long forgotten. I'm sure also there's something that makes said person more susceptible to that moment over others. But it will be something broad, like a different way of processing hormones or whatever. There will not be a separate single gene that causes men to wear women's clothing. That's biologically ridiculous.

Nature and nurture surely both play a part, as they do with everything. It's when you hit that certain combination that a crossdresser is born.

[Jessica86]

Does it matter when someone started dressing or not?

Isn't it even POSSIBLE that some here did actually first "dress" at 4 or 5 or 6 but DON'T even remember?


Oh, I say it is possible someone could dress before then and not remember. When I told my sister about it, she claims I liked dressing before five, but I remember five because that is when I got a Nintendo from my brother. We made this entertainment room, and it was my room. We shared the televisions, and while he was playing, my sister and I played with her clothes and stuff. BUT, I really do not think there is a seniority level in crossdressing.

[Daisy41]

I'm not entirely sure how I should be answering this, but my desire for female gender clothing dates as far back as 4. I remember actively trying to seek out ways to try on my cousin's church clothes. My mother dressed me as a girl and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember distinctly trying on heels at the age of 6, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, and so on.

At any rate, the way I thought about it has changed over the years, but the desire to do it has been steady my entire life. Do I feel it makes it "more real" for me? Not at all. I just feel like I've dealt with it for a long time now.

I will say, I'm very competitive, but I try really hard not to compare myself to others, especially in a way that puts one below me. Instead, I compete with myself by taking pictures of the way I dress and see how much better I am today than I was years ago. I want to be approachable so if someone feels as if they're "not as good as me" they can approach me and ask for help and I can do what I can to help them get to a point where they're better tomorrow than they are today.

[Sometimes Steffi]

And do MOST folks really think they can "accurately" remember the where/when/why from perhaps 20, 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years ago when they can't even remember what they had for lunch just 24 hours ago?


Most of my early events I can't really date accurately. But in a lot of cases, I have a vivid picture of myself when the event took place, and I can say, "That boy looks about 10."

In other cases, a particular event was effectively time stamped for me. For example, there was a time when I was entranced watching my mother's sister put on lipstick. She lived on Long Island, and we stayed at her place for a few days and visited the NY World's Fair. The World's Fair took place in 1964 and 1965. This was the second time we went to the World's Fair, so it was 1965 and I was 12. Voila!

[Amanda M]

To the OP - A better CDer? What nonsense! People cannot remember where or what twenty years ago? Rubbish.

[Secret Drawer]

It does actually seem sensible to question how "serious" we are because that may be a huge thing here. Some people come here for the naughty thrills (as WAH has spoken of very loudly many times before!) and others may come here as a way to seek solace amid a devistating time in their lives. So there is that! Whether there is some base reasoning as to why someone may be more serious than another is hard to say, but completely irrelevant in any real world application. None the less, experience and wisdom typically does come with age, so I have a tendancy to give a bit of respect and attention to the older more experienced members.

[Annaliese]

I am A better CDer because of this site, and the girls here.

[Katherine_meows]

I remember the first time I wore a dress, I was home sick and for some reason found myself looking through my moms closet, I was about 8 at the time, I found a beautiful dress, white and black, fitted, just beautiful, I couldn't tell you what attracted me to it, or why I put it on, I do remember being younger watching the little mermaid and wishing with everything I had in my that I could be areal( however you spell her name) I would pray at night, that I would wake up a girl, or a dog( I was a bit of a weird child) back to the dress! So I find myself takin the dress and going I to my mothers bathroom, that was the first time I smelt foundation and I put it on my face, I did my make-up to the best of my ability. I would dress up and just wonder around the house, alone. As time would go on, I would grow embarrassed of my little secret, eventually I would hate myself for it, I thought I wasn't suppose to feel this way about clothes, or looking a certain way or even a certain sex. I didn't know any better, I would continue to try to hide the fact I loved woman's clothes, make-up, feeling pretty and feminine. As I grew older, I always found myself still hiding it, doing my make-up and dressing up to sit in the bathroom and cry because I hated myself so much, eventually I came to the age of sex, to be honest, i don't think I ever really understood the emotion tied into sex, at 14 I began having sex with woman because that's what regular boys do. I've hurt a lot of woman in my short time on this earth and it is nothing I am proud of. Emotionally, I related more toward a sexual ism, I had sex because I enjoyed it, I couldn't be gay, that's not normal, so I shut myself off to the idea as I continued to dress secretively and hate myself for it. I had so much self hatred and pity I eventually found myself a drug addict, feeding my addiction with the feelings i kept buried within. I came out this year, after 4 months of sobriety, I had told people in the past but just left it at that. Coming out was the best thing I have ever done in my life, it has also been one of the hardest things. For me, cross dressing and being feminine has been apart of me for as long as I can remember, much like using a fork or respecting others, I've stopped questioning why I feel this way and stopped hating myself for it, shit I even found other people who feel the same as I do. I currently dress publicly and am looking into counceling so I can proceed with hrt. I know that's what I want to do, with everything in my heart I know I am a woman.

[Jaymees22]

I'm a crossdresser for better or worse, I'm married to the concept..

[emily606]

I think that once we put on a skirt and realize we like it, we're all the same no matter what we're wrapped up in.

Emily

[Lorileah]

And do MOST folks really think they can "accurately" remember the where/when/why from perhaps 20, 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years ago when they can't even remember what they had for lunch just 24 hours ago?

weak argument at best. When an event is new or out of the normal realm of daily pattern, most people will remember it. In my case I remember it because there were consequences at the time. No I wasn't punished but I was made to feel shamed for doing it. That imprints on your mind. Comparing long term memory with short term is like apples and oranges. Those here who are parents will remember with great detail the birth of their child. The child will remember a special birthday. Most will remember graduation or weddings. Quite a few will remember close calls or near death experiences (especially soldiers in combat). I remember the day vividly when my dog was hit by a car. I remember vividly the first time I met my future wife (and there was absolutely no romance, she was a secretary where I worked). When something is important to your life you will remember it. When people say they remember being 3-4-5 years old and feeling they were in the wrong container, they truly do
When you drive to work the same way everyday, that becomes a melange of every trip, but the first time you wore a dress, and especially when it involves something like your sister laughing or you father taking you to the woodshed, that sticks.

The curious part I will agree with, it is how we learn. But when an event holds out of ordinary results you remember. We will never know how many boys did try a dress and then decided it wasn't them. I will never know how a truly masculine male feels. I don't remember wearing my first football uniform, or my first volleyball uniform, because they became routine in a hurry. I am sure I have forgotten my first taste of asparagus, but I do remember I hate it. Re pressed memories are not uncommon especially if guilt or punishment were involved, so yes of course there are some here who don't remember when they were 5, but hey do remember being 20.

So I don't see where your argument is going? Do you want everyone to agree some don't remember? You win. Do you want people to agree that boys do things out of curiosity? You win again. Do you want people to say that what they feel or remember is wrong because they can't even find their keys in the morning, you are dead wrong (and there is a large group of psychologists who believe we remember everything that ever happened to us but don't know how to access it.). Of course it is possible, it is likely even PROBABLE. So what is your point? Help; me out here, it seems this is like saying "The sky is blue"

[Nicole Erin]

You think it is bad here? Go take a look how some TS women act. OH gyod, sometimes they diss each other like you cannot believe.

[Wildaboutheels]

How memories are formed and WHY our Human Brains will often "doctor" those memories OR completely dismiss or bury others IS well documented and studied. Ever more accurate fMRIs have made this possible.

One need not even go to the library or consult any Mag articles.

Simply watching NGC's Brain Games helps "demystify" much of what is often discussed at this Forum. [They were even kind enough to utilize CDers in one segment to illustrate how poorly we see/notice things]

[Beverley Sims]

My memories of dressing have been triggered by events that other people have experienced.
Three years ago I had very little recall of any of my dressing.
I still look at previous posts and realise I had remembered something that I left hidden in my subconscious.
Even events of my world tours need the video playback to remind me of what I have done and where I had visited.

So posts by others here do jog my memory and I find it a great tool for memory recall.

[Eryn]

Put any group of 5-year-olds of either gender in a room with a box full of high heel shoes and within an hour every one of them will have clomped around in them.

The same would apply to any shiny, attractive toy. It means nothing as far as their gender identity, but many CDers cling to a childhood memory of this as an "origin" of their crossdressing.

I've had a poorly-defined "special interest" in things feminine all my life, but I didn't CD completely until I was in my 50s.

Does that make me a better or worse CDer? I don't care. It's not a competition. It is simply me finding out more about myself and learning to lead a happier life. I'm proud of my accomplishments and like to share with others but it is for social, not competitive reasons.

[NicoleScott]

Others will also flatly insist that Nurture has nothing to do with CDing... in essence, declaring that the countless hundreds who have declared here over the years that NURTURE did [in fact strongly] affect their CDing... are all Liars.


Saying something you believe to be true even if it isn't and unsupported by facts might make you wrong, but not a Liar.