Ultimatum or Fair Deal?

[Wildaboutheels]

As quite a few here seem to feel they should have no restrictions whatsoever from their SOs...

I believe the vast majority that water here are either in a "SO does not know" situation or some degree of DADT. Most seldom post/are professional lurkers.

What if your SO came to you out of the blue and proclaimed, "I know how much you enjoy dressing, so at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But NO makeup, wigs or padding or shapewear".

1] You immediately reply with ____________________________________?

2] You are too stunned to say anything and have to chew on it a bit before you are able to react.

3] You race to her just as fast as your feet can carry you and simply say "Thank You" and leave it at that.

4] Other?

I have a feeling "most" GGs might have an "easier time" with "just" clothing?

[Emi_]

My SO gives me total freedom, but I hadn't told her about my dressing at the start. She found out about 2 years into our marriage and immediately had no problems with it.

My reaction at the time was kind of like #2. I was surprised and relieved and just a bit nervous as to what it all meant. My bigger concern was that she did not fully understand or foresee the possible ramifications of this decision and we did have a few bumps in the road as a result. Ultimately, communication and mutual respect enabled our love to win out.

[cdterri]

I wear dresses,skirts,tops,panties and once in awhile a bra if the dress needs it. No makeup or wigs.The SO has no problem with it.Early on She did remark that she probably would not like to see me in makeup or a wig. Why should I spend half the day applying make up, sweating under a wig and risk upsetting Her just to hang around the house and back yard?

[Jodi]

I learned a long time ago to watch ever giving anyone an ultimatum. There can be two responses--the one you desire and the one you can't live with. Be prepared to get that response you can't live with.

Jodi

[Linda E. Woodworth]

I tend to think it would be more of an ultimatum. Especially as it is very one sided and didn't take the spouses feelings into consideration.

While on the outside it might seem like this is a very good deal, in reflection it is far from it. As a Cross Dresser I'm trying to portray as good a feminine image as I possibly can. That requires all the items that are on the supposed "off limits" list.

It's all about the clothes and other goodies that goes with dressing as a woman. Just part of it is OK for a while, but eventually the overwhelming desire to dress fully breaks out and won't be denied.

[Zoe B]

This seems like a good question for me to start my time here with :)

My fiancée is very relaxed about my dressing to the point she likes to give me make-up tips (even tried new ideas out on me first - bit like a test bed). We have always been open and honest about everything between us and I think that is the key.

I don't know how I would reply to the question you posed as I have had no real restrictions. I can tell you I was nervous at first that she was only doing it to please me (fall out from a previous marriage) and that made me nervous. I guess answer two would have been my initial reaction followed by relief.

[Amylou2014]

Is this post because of me?

I'm sorry but wives of cders are suppose to set rules and boundaries. The wife is the one thats understanding and accepting, if there are a few things that are hard for her to deal with, then so be it, at least she didn't leave you. I found out 2 yrs after marriage and that hurt, so any accepting coming from my end should be respected not scrutinized or tested.

My husband is completely fine with the no wigs, no makeup, and no fake boobs intimately.
I still do his makeup for him and I still take him shopping and by his wigs. I just do t want to feel like a lesbian while have sex.

[Rachael Leigh]

First after I wake up from the dream I would embrace her and make sure thats really what shes ok with and do my best to make her always feel special.
Im not sure how much I would dress much in front of her if she was good with it but since I do enjoy some of the styles that are more generic than out and out feminine it might be great. I for one would have a drawer full of night wear since I love that so much

[Confucius]

I would agree with your wife. The wife sets the boundaries.

However, I would not consider it an ultimatum. If your wife loves you and knows your CDing makes you happy, then you are free to discuss it with her. For instance, you may respond by saying, you will not wear a wig, make-up, pads or shapewear without her permission. After you discuss it then tell her that you love her more than anything. You even love her more than your CDing. My wife sets my boundaries and I am grateful for it - without her boundaries I would be a mess.

Always recall that your wife has needs too. She needs to feel held and loved by a man. She needs to feel secure and protected by a man. And she needs to love a man she can respect and honor. Show her that you are that man.

[Teresa]

Wild,
I would initially accept the offer to dress but the stage on offer is just a guy in a dress ! OK your partner may be comfortable with it but it's also the level that gets sniggered at, some guys may accept it others may get pretty upset because it's not what their dressing is about !
I posted a thread a while ago called , " Calling you bluff ". I suggested that your partner says its OK to dress and when you have , she asks OK what now ?
These scenarios are just cruel to a CDer, this is a point Isha made in a thread, it's controlling and lacking in understanding !
Most of us have struggled silently for years it's very hard for an average guy to admit he's a CDer ! When he does come out he doesn't deserve the cruel hardship that he's often forced to accept.
He certainly isn't doing it to intentionally hurt his partner !

[Amylou2014]

Always recall that your wife has needs too. She needs to feel held and loved by a man. She needs to feel secure and protected by a man. And she needs to love a man she can respect and honor. Show her that you are that man.

I love this! Soooo true! As a GG I completely agree! And that's what I was trying to say!

[Zylia]

I don't have a SO in the first place, but that would be a no deal for me. I dress for the 'complete illusion' (whether I succeed or not), not just for the clothes. I don't want to dress all the time, I just want the time to do it right (or at least how it's right for me) every now and then.

[Donnagirl]

I love this! Soooo true! As a GG I completely agree! And that's what I was trying to say!

My dear SO would say exactly the same...

[Katey888]

It's a good question Wild - and while you didn't constrain the question to those who were just Closeted or DADT, the question clearly only really makes sense to us folks in those apparently unenviable states... so, as an FC (Fully Closeted) member... ;)

Yes, I'd be stunned.. :eek:

Yes, I'd be grateful that we now have an opportunity to talk...

No, I wouldn't think it was a fair deal - but it would be a great chance to talk about how and why I personally, am afflicted the way that I am, and why I seem to need more than just a nice Laura Ashley dress and a pair of slingbacks... As Teresa rightly said, now I'm a DiD (Dude in Dress) - there's little point in that for me - I need the whole transformation...

Of course, it's another fantasy scenario - and I wouldn't be responding with my own ultimatum, but I might just end up being elevated to DADT from FC... Progress of sorts, I s'pose... :)

Katey x

[NicoleScott]

I would reply with "that doesn't work for me".
I guess a wife can set boundaries, but they have a better chance of working if the rules are negotiated and agreed upon. Without an agreement, the boundaries are doomed if they don't adequately accommodate the CDer's drive. Throwing on a dress doesn't do it for me - I like wigs, shapewear, makeup, fake painted nails, jewelery, and perfume. I can agree to confine my dressing to the home, in private.
Be careful about ultimatums. You don't give someone a choice you don't want him/her to take.

[Marcelle]

I guess a wife can set boundaries, but they have a better chance of working if the rules are negotiated and agreed upon. Without an agreement, the boundaries are doomed if they don't adequately accommodate the CDer's drive . . . Be careful about ultimatums. You don't give someone a choice you don't want him/her to take.

I agree with Nicole. My wife is fully supportive of my dressing and any compromise I have made or she has made are negotiated between two consenting adults. She is not my parent nor am I hers. I would never demand she do something as she would never demand I do so. Demands lead to bitterness and that will definitely lead to a strained relationship.


. . . Always recall that your wife has needs too. She needs to feel held and loved by a man. She needs to feel secure and protected by a man. And she needs to love a man she can respect and honor. Show her that you are that man.

Interesting assertion. Does this mean because I dress like a woman from time to time I cease being a man. :confused: If I took the meaning the wrong way, I apologize but it seems to me that is what you are saying.

IMHO, I am quite certain that being a man or more precisely a good human being in a loving relationship is about more than clothing. If I am mean, selfish, angry, harmful . . .then I am not being a good man (dressed or not). If I am being loving, nurturing, caring then I am being a good man (dressed or not). However these are all traits I expect in my wife as much as she expects them in me. :)

Hugs

Isha

[Wildaboutheels]

But, but, but but...

Doesn't the fact that she knows but didn't immediately pack her bags and leave you a farewell note account for something?

Or that if she's partially open, she can't be "worked on/negotiated with" a little at a time?

Of course I am not talking about what seems to happen here so often that ladies report. The GGs gave an inch or several but the CDer wanted a foot or a yard and pushed too far too fast and got themselves into boiling water. It's what many GGs report.

Aren't most people flexible about "most" things if done at a slow steady pace? Seems to me that's how many here got to the point where they are with their SOs?

[NicoleScott]

Of course I am not talking about what seems to happen here so often that ladies report. The GGs gave an inch or several but the CDer wanted a foot or a yard and pushed too far too fast and got themselves into boiling water. It's what many GGs report.

Shame on the CDer that does this. Rules should be re-negotiated, not broken. And neither the wife nor the CDer should agree to terms they know they won't be able to keep. That's why re-negotiation must always be in play.

[Stephanie Julianna]

My immediate reply would be that I really appreciate the thought but I could never go that route. The last thing I want to do is look like a man in women's clothes. Lets just keep things the way they are. I'll dress completely when I can and not do it around you. But I love you for the thought.

[typhoidmary]

I don't personally agree with anyone giving ultimatums in relationships, but then what the hell do I know, all of mine have been trainwrecks. I also sympathise with women finding it hard to accept this kind of thing especially when generally it seems to be something that gets sprung on them, so whether or not it's fair, it's definitely understandable. You could argue it's not fair that they have to accept this new part of you into the relationship just like that either. I guess in that way I'm glad this is a full time thing for me, anyone entering into a relationship with me knows what they're getting into right away on that front and if they don't like my hair or my makeup or my clothes, without which my life wouldn't seem worth living, then they know I'm not the one for them.

[suchacutie]

I'm closer to Nicole on this one. I don't know that I can agree with the initial premise. When my wife and I discussed everything about Tina, we brought all the thoughts out into the open and then tried to be sensitive to each other. Tina is much more than clothes. In fact, she is a whole other personality and it is that which drives our curiosities.

It seems to me that ultimatums are the beginning of the end.

[Laura28]

My wife has known for years, she is very accepting, and supportive. Her only request and yes it is a request that i dont do make up and wig in front of her, she is fine with me wearing anything else at home or in the bedroom. She does like to see my pictures i take while i am traveling for work, but just not in person. She also has no issue purchasing me clothes or make up i cant tell you how many times i have called her when she is out and ask her to pick me up some eye make up or mascara.

I can live with that, and hse has said some day she will meet the full laura when she is ready.

[MatildaJ.]

The initial scenario makes no sense to me.

Does your hypothetical SO mean A or B?

A. "at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But if I find any wigs or padding or shapewear in the house I will throw it out and throw you out."

Or the much more reasonable:
B: "When I'm around you can wear any clothing you want, but I don't want to be around you in wigs, makeup, padding, etc. So do that on your own time."

To me, it feels like another person is in the house when the wig is on, so I have a right not to hang out with that new person if I don't feel like it. That doesn't mean the CDer can't be that person when I'm out -- or even when I'm home but then deal with me retreating into a book and not being social that evening.

[Lorileah]

awesome, you get something you would have asked for if you negotiated prior and instead of taking it as a win (or partial win) you all want to pretend it is a Tijuana market and dicker.

Here is how I see that going

You: "No, I don't think you have the right to make the rules for me. I will take dressing and makeup and a wig but not out of the yard"

Her: "my counter offer is you can dress once a week."

You: "But you said 'at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But NO makeup, wigs or padding or shapewear' there was no time limit on it"

Her: "You are absolutely correct, but you turned down that offer so here is the new offer."

You: "I'll take the initial offer"

Her: "That has expired, how about you can wear panties?"

Of course you could just walk out then..after all you are the one who is in charge of your marriage. Right? How many times have we seen that work?

[Amylou2014]

I still think if your SO, accepted the fact that you like to dress(your should already be really happy), but gave you a "list" of things she was not comfortable with, you should respect that. Later down the road things can be rediscussed.

But as a man with a SO that didn't leave you, you should comply with the things she says. It's probably already hard to just think of the fact that your a cder. So whatever makes her more comfortable....you should do....IF it is a SO that you really care about or want a future with.

If you have a lifetime with that person why push it on day one so to speak.

[Zylia]

But, but, but but...

Doesn't the fact that she knows but didn't immediately pack her bags and leave you a farewell note account for something?

Am I supposed to be grateful if this hypothetical significant other (or, I guess in this case, 'other') thinks that my cross-dressing might be something worth leaving me for? I wouldn't start a serious relation with someone who doesn't know about it anyway, but people don't own each other and you're not supposed to pressure someone into agreement as a cross-dresser OR a partner. Boundaries can be reasonable, but so can certain wishes.

[Alice Torn]

I am getting to the point of being glad i am a lifetime single. If i could not dress to the nines, with wig and jewelry and stuffed bra, I would not put on a dress at all. If i married, i would have to negotiate, and do my best to comply, though.

[Amylou2014]

Am I supposed to be grateful if this hypothetical significant other (or, I guess in this case, 'other') thinks that my cross-dressing might be something worth leaving me for? I wouldn't start a serious relation with someone who doesn't know about it anyway, but people don't own each other and you're not supposed to pressure someone into agreement as a cross-dresser OR a partner. Boundaries can be reasonable, but so can certain wishes.

I get that you wouldnt start a relationship with someone if they didn't accept you cding. I think that should def be discussed before a serious relationship stArted, but if in fact it wasn't and If you married someone then later told them your a cder, then hell yes your supposed to be GRATEFUL!

Sorry but finding out a SO Is a Cder is a life changing event.....

[Mimi]

I agree that finding out one's spouse is a CDer is a life changing event. But for the CDer, especially the one who identifies later in life, it can be equally life-changing and terrifying. The concept of boundaries, to me, is controlling and would make me feel as though I'm treating my spouse like a child. The CDing needs to be managed, not controlled. Managing it may mean compromises, negotiations, discussions, and the willingness of both parties to be flexible without resentment from either side. For some, the idea of any boundary immediately makes them want to stretch the boundary, having a counterproductive effect to what the wife had hoped for. Mutually agreed upon policies are much more likely to work.

[ShelbyDawn]

Why does this have to be a conflict?
I would answer, "Thank you. It means so much to me that you are open to a workable solution between the two of us concerning my need to dress. Lets sit down and talk about what my dressing means and our feelings about the different specifics and then we can agree on what boundaries work best for the both of us. I love you."

How does that sound?

[Kate Simmons]

Just one thing to point out. Agreements may work just fine for both partners but ultimatums never do.:)

[Marcelle]

I get that you wouldnt start a relationship with someone if they didn't accept you cding. I think that should def be discussed before a serious relationship stArted, but if in fact it wasn't and If you married someone then later told them your a cder, then hell yes your supposed to be GRATEFUL!

Sorry but finding out a SO Is a Cder is a life changing event.....

Amylou while I agree with your sentiment in that if I know I am TG/CD before I start a relationship and it is necessary for my emotional well being. Specifically I know I will have to do it in such a way that it may bring harm to my intended then yes a person should be up front. However it is not that simple and you cannot lump all into one category. I did not discover Isha until I was 24 years into my marriage and I was emotionally confused to the point where I was in a very dark place. There was no malice on my part. I told my wife then and there for if I did not it would destroy me. Was I grateful that she accepted Isha into our lives? Yes I was. However, you cannot equate grateful to giving up control of your life to one person . . . relationships are about working together not one party having all the power to make decisions for another. If both parties cannot agree then it is time to move on. If you had done something that was so unforgiving by your husband and he agreed to stay with you on the condition that he could decide what, when and where you can do things . . . would you accept those conditions knowing full well you will be miserable? I would venture most people would not and compromise would have to be struck or the relationship would falter. It is not as simple as some might think it is.


I agree that finding out one's spouse is a CDer is a life changing event. But for the CDer, especially the one who identifies later in life, it can be equally life-changing and terrifying. The concept of boundaries, to me, is controlling and would make me feel as though I'm treating my spouse like a child. The CDing needs to be managed, not controlled. Managing it may mean compromises, negotiations, discussions, and the willingness of both parties to be flexible without resentment from either side. For some, the idea of any boundary immediately makes them want to stretch the boundary, having a counterproductive effect to what the wife had hoped for. Mutually agreed upon policies are much more likely to work.

Mimi . . . thank-you for this I could not have said it any better.

Hugs

Isha

[Zylia]

Mimi and Isha are infinitely more eloquent than I am and I couldn't agree more with their posts. Many SOs think they are given a raw deal and I can relate to that, mostly because I sometimes feel the same about myself. I did not choose to do this either, I just found a way to deal with it constructively. My life is not without what some may consider compromises, but those came naturally, not by force.

I agree that a known cross-dressing habit should be discussed way before marriage or any other serious form of commitment is even considered, but as Isha pointed out, it's not always that clear. Not all cross-dressers are created equally. I have had other issues within relationships but I never turned them into transactions, e.g. "you kept this a secret for me for two years, so now you're only allowed to do this and that". Despite my obvious and less obvious flaws I'm still a whole person and if that's not something worth fighting for there's not much I can do about that.

Anyway, boundaries shouldn't be based on doing as less cross-dressing as possible, it should be based on finding a comfortable situation for all parties involved.

[Wildaboutheels]

I was under the distinct impression that the vast majority here [presumably single or with knowing SO's] sleep in a nightgown or some type of female garments? Certainly no one sleeps with forms, wigs, padding, makeup etc.?

Or does "presentation" not matter when asleep or under the covers?

[Teresa]

Wild, I don't care what I sleep in as long as I get a good nights sleep, which happens about once a week !
Usually a nightie under PJs but I'm working on that one !

[Eryn]

Healthy relationships are not built on ultimatums. They are built on mutual respect and communication. Both parties have to be willing to be flexible and to understand that situations are always going to change with time.

Not understanding this is a quick path to divorce.

[Beverley Sims]

I would not agree but maybe there would be a compromise worked out.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

. The wife is the one thats understanding and accepting, if there are a few things that are hard for her to deal with, then so be it, at least she didn't leave you. I found out 2 yrs after marriage and that hurt, so any accepting coming from my end should be respected not scrutinized or tested.
.

So true! I had never thought of it that way. After the big 'reveal', the wife is the one left doing all the 'understanding and accepting'. The weight of change is pretty much placed entirely on us...yet some of the husbands here post often that they think they should also be able to make demands and have all their needs met??

Ha! Has no one here met the wrath of an angry woman?? Are you insane?!!

Amy, thanks for that reality check. I hope other GG's remember that bending until they break isn't necessary; they can and SHOULD set boundaries for THEIR emotional well being, and if their H can't handle this, he's likely to become the mess Confucius mentioned and will soon be without a wife.

For the rest, I know you love your wives and that their boundaries are honoured and welcome. Thank you for being one of the good guys :)

[Maria 60]

I would of course ask if this was the best she could do, and I would except because I usually don't wear make-up, but I think I can do without the wig but the wig is a very big part of who Maria is.

[Secret Drawer]

I think we might be missing an important piece of Wilds initial post, which is for those in the closet or DADT situations. If you consider that as already in a compromised situation, then any acceptance to "wear what you will," is far better then the current scenario now. It isn't about rules, etc. it is about an SO's personal tolerance. (It actually has little to do with us!) I am also speaking from a very specific point of veiw, in which I am gender fluid, thus not directly manly, nor a woman. Thus for me, while many here consider it a joke to be a man in a dress, I consider it a man in a dress by appearance only, but internally I am how I should be. So if my wife suddenly was OK with that, as opposed to her dislike of anything CD, that would be great!

[Amylou2014]

I agree with what Yal are saying, but if you knew prior, it should be discussed.

I don't control my husband, and I never would, however, the point is, he respects me enough to not do want I feel uncomfortable with.

If you wanna call that controlling then idk, respect is love.

I have never felt I was asking to much from my H, I say no wigs, make up or forms DURiNG intimate times. Sorry I don't wanna feel like I'm having sex with a women.

Tinker bell,

It sounds likes the wives aren't respected there forced into uncomfortable situations. Which is sad....

We are the ones that take the blunt hit. It's something new to OUR LIVES not theirs.
A big adjustment(if the SO loves you enough to adjust, which you should be grateful for and respect!).

[kimdl93]

As I said in another post, I'm leery about the use of terms like most, or even many in characterizing the extent of anything related to CDing. We here are at best a highly selective, and self selected sample, not reliably representative of "most" CDrs or SOs. So take the responses to this query with more than a grain of salt.

To the question: just wearing the clothes wouldn't do anything special for me. I am not comfortable presenting in women's clothes without the various accoutrements. I am striving to present as a woman...not a man in women's clothes.

[trishacd]

If my wife told me that i would be a very happy gurl.if she let me dress whenever i wanted to i bet she would come around sooner or later and let me do it all.

[devida]

Since I am not interested in trying to pass as a woman the original question does not apply to me. But the topic of negotiation in marriage as opposed to ultimatums applies to everybody in a relationship. In fact I think this may be one of the advantages of being in a relationship with someone who is not presenting their gender in a way that is the norm. It provides both partners with an opportunity to discover what their relationship is based on (mutual love and affection or stereotyped views of what men and women should provide for each other). For someone breaking gender norms, as the numerous threads about pink fog and other obsessive phases shows, cross dressing can be an almost manic experience. Having a partner who can help moderate dress crazed behavior is as valuable to the CDer as it might be to the GG, don't you think? For me I can recognize when I've gone off the transgender diving board into the deep end when my wife starts looking bored and uninterested. I've learned how to shut up. It seems to me many CDers are pretty obsessive and one track minded so having someone around who can tell us that we're going over the top is pretty useful. I am also grateful for having an expert on women's clothes around and someone who can tell me that I am achieving the effect I want from my make up. I'm not trying to pass as a woman but I also do not want to look like a man. Make up used subtly is a great way to achieve that effect but I need something more than a mirror. I need someone to tell me how I look. I can and do ask: Do I look fat in this dress, dear? My wife is quite happy to say that I do. She will also tell me I look a bit too chesty if she thinks my boobs are too big.

Also I think that husbands get away with a lot that perhaps CDing husbands do not wish to. There is considerable privilege stereotypically granted to men in marriage. I know this is less so these days but I never saw my father do the dishes, do any cleaning, cook a meal or help around the house. Many men still regard all that as women's work even if the women have full time jobs. I think CDers and gender non conformists like me may, as a result of declining to identify ourselves as stereotypical males, be less likely to avoid the household chores that men have no right to refuse to do. I do the cooking, half the shopping, clean the floors as well as doing the handiwork that men are meant to do (and taking out the garbage). My wife does as much as I do. This too is a result of ongoing negotiation. But only in my early and stupid twenties did I think that certain jobs were women's work and frankly, I was just lazy.

So I know that we have a lot of threads by CDers and GGs complaining about each other, but there are some advantages too, don't you think? My SO thinks so. A few months ago she told me she though it was all pretty exciting to be with me as I explored my true gender. Wasn't that a great thing to hear?

[Wildaboutheels]

This q is about perspective. I think maybe some forget about how many shades of gray there are. Just have a look at the grey/gray paint chips alone on your next visit to Wally World. SEEING them is a good reminder.

And am I hearing that possibly someone who told prior to marriage and was informed in so many words that the GG simply was not interested at all in that "facet" of her partner...

She comes to you out of the blue, maybe after many years, willing to BEND somewhat, but you are going to tell her she is being unreasonable and/or that it is all or nothing for you?

[Meg East]

As quite a few here seem to feel they should have no restrictions whatsoever from their SOs...

I believe the vast majority that water here are either in a "SO does not know" situation or some degree of DADT. Most seldom post/are professional lurkers.

What if your SO came to you out of the blue and proclaimed, "I know how much you enjoy dressing, so at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But NO makeup, wigs or padding or shapewear".

The above is the agreement in our home. Skirt, tops, bras and even a little jewelry but no makeup shaved legs or wigs. It is an extremely workable arrangement.

[Di]

I think maybe some forget about how many shades of gray there are.


On both sides:D
Each couple has to find what works for them. Both have to be honest.
If the wife ( wanting to be supportive says nothing when something really bugs them it ends up being oh G no here we go again) instead of moving forward together in the relationship.
Also the hubby needs to speak up and not agree if something will not work for them because end result they will be back doing it in secret again.
Couples can just figure it out....and like JessM said....if the wig ect bothers me....then do that when I am not home.
Things can be always be worked out.:hugs:
The end result you want is where cding is not the elephant in the room.....you just are living your life....no drama.

In our case....no boundrys .... but mutual respect and I feel with freedom there comes a calmness and not this frantic thinking all the time when can I dress again I see some go through.

AGAIN it is what works for us....and every couple has to find what works for them:hugs:

[Vala]

I agree with what has been sad before.

I would say: thanks dear that means a lot to me, but no make up, wig, etc is like a hamburger without meat, it ain't the same. So I will continue to dress up when I'm alone.

[DonnaT]

I can wear what I like, however, I do not wear makeup or a wig very often, just mainly if I'm going out.

My wife has not asked me to forgo the wig and makeup, but I can tell what she's comfortable with, or not.

So, it's my choice, and I choose what is most comfortable for my wife.

[Tracy Hazel Lee]

1 . I immediately reply with 'You understood the situation before you locked into the relationship. Please do not make me choose between you and my dressing, because I can not guarantee that you will win. If this is not something you can handle, or want to deal with, then we need to end this relationship now.'.

About 2 years into our relationship, she found out about my dressing and this is exactly what went down, and we moved on... If an ultimatum came after this event, this is exactly what I would say. Fortunately, she understood that this is not something I can just 'switch off', and agreed to maintain the relationship......That was 12 years ago... so I guess things are still okay. We're still together.

Also, I don't make it a habit of being in her face with it either. Actually, she rarely sees me when I'm dressed.

[Angie G]

I can go all out dressing as long as I don't go out. Makeup is a go but not everyday. I have forms that she orderdfor me.The only thing I can't do is shave the mustache.And I gave her a very big "THANK YOU":hugs:
Angie

[Chardonnay Merlot]

What if your SO came to you out of the blue and proclaimed, "I know how much you enjoy dressing, so at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But NO makeup, wigs or padding or shapewear".

1] You immediately reply with ____________________________________?

I'd immediately reply with okay, you want to change the terms of our agreement, please explain why you wish to change the terms?

I understand this goes beyond the basic question, but this raises a lot of points.

1. When I engage in any relationship, I state it point blank up front. "I'm a crossdresser. I enjoy it. I go out dressed from time to time and I have other friends who do...and I belong to a support group."

At that point my potential significant other can "deal" or "no deal"...It's her choice.

If she chooses "deal"...At that point I am more than willing to negotiate. And I usually start with the Tri-Ess "Rights" template...Tri-Ess.org Bill of Rights (http://www.tri-ess.org/Wives_CDs_BofR.html) It's not 100% perfect, there may be some points of contention, but it is a good starting point.

2. My personal policy going forward.

-- 1. Discuss everything -- If there is a concern on other side, we talk it out like two adults and we make a compromise together. I believe that 99.99% of any problem within a relationship can be solved with two people having a real conversation coming from a position of love and understanding. More "we", less "me".
-- 2. No Presentation With Request -- This is the policy I have mainly with my parents, and that goes for questions as well. If they want to know, they can ask. If they want to see me in something, they can ask. I have found that more often than not when you give the option and not force the option, its possible. But I do have a corollary to that. PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! Educate yourself in the issues involved! At the beginning, I would point a potential partner to a lot of information. I'd invite them to my support group meetings etc. A little knowledge goes a long way.
-- 3. DADT=DEALBREAKER -- In the past, I've dealt with a few people who say, "I don't wanna know, and don't wanna see it!", and I've had others say, "I can understand, but I need some time to digest it before I see "femme you".
The latter case is NOT DADT on it's face, it can get that way if its used as a "hedge" to avoid the issue. Again, see the corollary, a little knowledge goes a long way. At the beginning at least, that second case is a fair compromise. My response is "That's fair. When you are ready, let me know. But realize for us to make it, at some point you have to be ready.


A note about something:
"I know how much you enjoy dressing, so at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But NO makeup, wigs or padding or shapewear".

My response would be: "Why would you want me to do anything half-assed?" :)

[Wildaboutheels]

So it would appear that many of you sleep with forms, wigs and makeup? And maybe padding too? Wouldn't that make it awfully hard to sleep or be bad for some of it?

[Zylia]

Nope, just boxers for me. The whole 'sleeping en femme' thing is just silly in my opinion.