How can we say it's not a fetish

[2B Natasha]

How can we say it's not a fetish?

I read lot's and lot's of post's here about getting dressed. Most of them describing in great detail what sort of unmentionables they are wearing. How big their breasts are. How it feels to slip on a pair of nylons ( Bleech! ) We post about the brand, the color, the denier stay up, garter belt, control top, sheer, seamed etc etc. What brand make and model their bra is and on and on.

If it's not a fetish then why do we need to know about your underthings? Why do you feel WE need to know? Your shell, IE top skirt or dress or trousers and shoes I get that. But have you ever heard a clutch of women sitting around discussing ad nauseam their underwear? Me either.

I don't need to know about them. Why not just say. I got dressed in this outfit and went to place X.

PS. This does not include discussions on how make, tuck etc etc etc. Those are very specific craft post's.

Now I feel better

Cheers!

[natcrys]

Uhm.. glad you feel better now, I guess. :p

I'm probably one of the few CD's for whom underwear is just that.. underwear.

Having said that, I do understand why the stuff has a higher-than-average attraction for a myriad of reasons. So, I'd say if you're not interested in the extra detail given to panties, bras, etc., then just skip it or just don't read the thread.

And why is a shoe-fetish (guilty as charged!) different from an-"unmentionables" fetish? And why do we call them unmentionables.. we're all adults, right?

And why did they cancel Full House???

[Confucius]

Generally speaking a fetish is using objects as a substitute for our need for sexual intimacy. If a person is using cross-dressing to sexually stimulate himself, then "yes" that would appear to be consistent with a fetish. To be honest there are characteristics of a fetish that are consistent with cross-dressing, but it may well be that cross-dressing goes beyond the confines of a typical fetish.

For instance, many cross-dressers do not use cross-dressing for sexual stimulation. For many (especially older cross-dressers) it is used for reducing stress, generating sensations of well-being, and for personal comfort. They find it relaxes them, makes them more social, easier to get along. This is not consistent with the general understanding of a fetish.

Many cross-dressers also report that they have been cross-dressing since they were 4-5 years old, long before puberty, and long before they had any sexual interests in females. At the same time, they report that cross-dressing just made them happy.

Personally I do not feel I need to know about your underthings, nor do I need to see your photographs, or hear about your latest adventures.

So, many cross-dressers see their cross-dressing as going beyond a simple fetish, and prefer to see this condition as an orientation intrinsic to who they are.

[me]

according to Freud, isn't everything a fetish? :P

[Kate Simmons]

Well, it's better than talking about flatulence (which some people do a lot). Seems to me it's time for a new panty thread, or maybe a slip thread or girdle thread, camisole thread. You get the picture. ;):heehee::)

[Katey888]

How can we say it's not a fetish?

Easy! For me, it's not a fetish... (I have other fetishes MUCH wilder than this condition, but not connected with it and not for discussion here... ;))


I read lot's and lot's of post's here about getting dressed. ....

I don't need to know about them.
You don't need to read them - reading every post is NOT a requirement of being a member here.. :)



Why not just say. I got dressed in this outfit and went to place X.
I agree - recognise this....?

I don't have any pictures of what I was wearing but I can tell you it was 2 inch tan heels from nine west, ultra sheer panty hose from Nordies, ( That's for you Marla ) a knee length cream colored pencil skirt with just the slightest shimmer in it, and a blue-ish crepe style top with just a little bit of shimmer in it as well. Looks better n in person then in words. At least I think so and it feels super sexy to wear.
TMI...? I guess we all go through phases... :eek:

Live, and let live, Natasha... :)

Katey x

[natcrys]

^^ Busted! :p

[Betty Jean Blose]

Ahhh yes....the undies thing. Let me share a small story:

My involvement with one of the local LGBT groups came about as a surprise to them and to me.....and most likely from my volunteering with the local food bank. Strange how these things happen.....and how life-changing it can be. I have been into public speaking for years, speeches and talks to large and small groups, fund raisers, that sort of thing.......so it was easy to transistion to giving video presentations for the food bank.....and led to me becoming a ‘star’ for a special little group of males....wishing to be females.

The food bank is one of a number of ‘volunteer’ groups under the overall umbrella of the local Community Services non profit corporation, it keeps an eye on the various groups. Of course I knew what LGBT meant, the letters anyway, and I had vague ideas of gay people....live and let live I thought. So I went to their next meeting. My goodness, I had no idea that their meeting was not.....like a meeting I was used to....like a meeting to make plans, go over finances, like that. Not. This was their time to......display themselves, some of them anyway.....and to meet with like minded. You might say I felt out of place in my black leggings and comfy top......but I was very welcomed and put to ease. My presence did change the dynamics and the leaders took me aside to explain what they had in mind......a training video to teach feminization! As they put it. Imagine. Could I do it? Well, I did not say no.....

Honestly, I think most women have no idea just how our underwear has been eroticised. I mean, we all understand men are visual creatures, but, until I met men who wanted nothing more than to wear my underwear....well....it was a lesson for sure.

Can you imagine just how I felt?

[2B Natasha]

Your right katey

That was awhile ago and I moved on. That was a phase. Like acne. I moved on. I learned that that is not me. I thought I needed to post like that and it turns out. I don't. Besides. It's not the new ones that have me scratching my head it's the longer established ones. I probably should have made that clearer. BTW. It's not the posting that intrigue me. It's the statements that it isn't a fetish. By reading some of they accounts it is like very mild porn sometimes. I feel like asking my computer if it wants a cigarette after Reading them. And your right. I don't have to read it and I don't always. I skip it and move to the body of the thought or story. End of the day. I don't care if you have that as a fetish or not. I agree that we all have something. I just wonder why we as a group or individually, don't or won't admit it. You yourself admit to having one that you won't mention.

I think they cancelled full house because it was just bad IMHO.

[Wildaboutheels]

Um.. you left out HOBBY which IS an accurate description for the vast majority.

Might as well through in ADDICTION for at least 99% of the CDers on the planet. Having a few Os here and there while "dressed" WILL do that to a fellow. Those silly male BRAINS of ours seem to have a mind of their own.

FACT: [Though I have not a clue how many search engines there are] Google alone showed 28 pages of results currently when I type in the word CROSSDRESSERS.

My "guess" is that few of them are talking about or selling granny panties and flats.

[bimini1]

For what it's worth I have heard women discuss their drawers. Well, the drawers in their drawers or what kind they have on/like to wear. Hell, Victoria's Secret would not exist if women didn't at least want to wear something "sexualized" every now and again.
So all of women's bodies are fetishized. Why I don't know, chalk it up to the very nature of things I guess. That's why they can't go topless. What started at 4-5 years old may very well have not been a fetish then but what today is like what it was then? Where something starts is not usually where it ends up.

I think all or most of the talk of de-fetishizing it comes from plain old guilt. If I can make it into something not sexual I don't feel so bad or weird about it. So many of us at least will make an attempt to move beyond that and try to have some real experiences with it. But how many of us who have moved to a more "cosmetic" phase can truly say it's no longer a turn on in the least, not even a teentsy weenie bit?
C'mon be honest.

[kimdl93]

We is a sometimes overly inclusive term. We are all CDrs, or lovers of CDrs. Some of us are here for purely sexualized experiences with CDing and that's ok. It's not my thing and I frankly don't care to see many of us in our lingerie...there are a few who can really look good to my eye anyway. I don't dress for that reason, and other than for sarcasm, I won't inquire about the color of anyone's panties.

[UNDERDRESSER]

Well of course it's a fetish, for some, in some ways.

I definitely had a fetish thing going on in earlier years. It's still there, a little bit. It was mostly about close fitting clothing, underwear (obviously) sports clothing, usual things. These days, the fetish aspect has mostly retreated to the background, comfort in underwear is much more up front, womens underwear is far superior to mens, I even find the right styles fit better. I can find some very comfy mens if i go hunting, but dear god the good stuff is expensive! Much easier and cheaper to find womens ones that fit and buy on sale!

A lot, (maybe most) guys have never considered underdressing, but many have. The honest ones have realised that its superior, and the taboo aspect adds to the simple sensual pleasure of it. Whooppeeedo! It fulfils the function required, it's more comfortable, and it gets your crank turning, what's not to like?

These days I realise that part of the "thrill" is the idea that this is someting that I can do that is about sexual , physical display. Men "aren't supposed to do that" in current mainstream society. Phooee to that!

Given the level of liquid refreshment that I have taken, this post may or may not make sense.

[Sara Jessica]

While I generally agree with you Natasha, I also follow the practice of steering clear of these discussions.


But have you ever heard a clutch of women sitting around discussing ad nauseam their underwear?

Hmmmm? I have one example...

I was talking to a friend several years ago, a young woman (as in younger than my own springtime youth ;) ) who worked in a boutique that I shop at. She was talking about this site, having explored here a bit and as I was lamenting about some of the content (admittedly feeling as if I had to distance myself from "those" threads), she said "I'm always talking with my girlfriends about our panties".

Seriously, some people simply enjoy those threads and seemingly get a kick out of simply typing out certain words (cue Beavis saying "eh um eh...she said panties!!!"). There's nothing really wrong with it and like the common theme goes, if we're not so into those discussions, they're pretty easy to avoid.

[Lucy_Bella]

For many including myself, it's possible that the clothing ( including the unmentionables ) can be sexually arousing and yes even for the older dressers..To be sexually aroused doesn't mean physically going through the motions all the time ( that's mostly saved for the younger dressers who are aroused by the clothing)..In fact even for some, to even talk about the items they have on can make them sexually aroused ( as a fetish ) or be a form of being sexually aroused just like going out could be.. To define being sexually aroused doesn't always mean you have to go through the physical act of sex..Being sexually aroused makes you feel good or better and relieves stress as well..I can understand and appreciate the OP's POV if one is talking about what they are wearing and getting a kink out of it ..

[docrobbysherry]

Unfortunately, Natasha, u have stumbled upon one of my pet peeves.

Even more unfortunately, I've had my evening glass of wine!

Ever since I first arrived here about 7 years ago, I suffered the slings and arrows of being a "fetish dresser" simply because looking like a female excites me.

Thru the years I have also suffered thru the countless "pantie" threads that r posted here. Panties not being one of my fetishes, I don't take part in them.

Why would ANYONE be so interested in clothing no one ever sees unless it arouses them? And yet, I'm the "fetish dresser"?

[PinkCDgirl34B]

Well, it's better than talking about flatulence (which some people do a lot). Seems to me it's time for a new panty thread, or maybe a slip thread or girdle thread, camisole thread. You get the picture. ;):heehee::)

What Kate said. I LOVE foundation wear! It's what entranced me into crossdressing.

[JessMe]

It's important to note here just how much variation there is between members just what "being a crossdresser" means. ...there are those that just want to feel normal (their posts are usually more along the lines of: got dressed, bought groceries. ), those that will tell you directly that they are fetishists (wore my new VS thong for my SO and enjoyed lovemaking)... annnnnnd those who fall somewhere between the extremes. We are all unique human beings, and we are very diverse. ...myself; I won't talk about my undies (they're called "unmentionables" for a reason)... but I'll be the first to talk outfits. Lol

[Ressie]

Even though I don't participate in "what are you wearing" threads I don't deny that I'm a fetish dresser all the way! Love blue panties BTW!

[samantha rogers]

With understanding and respect for your view, I just want to point out that there are many places along the road to self discovery. Some among us are indeed purely fetishistic, and will never be anything else. But others, though they may pass through that as a phase, eventually move on to dressing and going out and even beyond to full transexual status, all in the quest for self expression and authenticity. It is a big world. All are cds of one stripe or another, at least, for the most part, at some point. In a society that all to often groups us all together disparagingly as supposed "deviants" and "freaks", is it too much to ask for a little compassionate inclusiveness amongst ourselves? I really don't mean to seem harsh.

[AllieSF]

You may not need to know about those details, but others may enjoy reading about them. If women do not talk regularly about these topics, who cares? We are men who like to dress in women's clothing, that gives all of us the right to talk about them. It, as can be seen in the number of these types of threads, is only natural for some of us to celebrate what we buy and wear, outer wear and underwear. Just because some people, including me on rare occasions, participate in pantie threads and talk about their lingerie does not in any way indicate or mean that we are fetishists. Some are, but I doubt that the majority are. Hell, a fun thread is just that, whether it is "another" pantie thread or it is about something else. When I read some of these personal opinion rant threads, it is not that I disagree with one's right to start this type of thread, but they really make me wonder about the OP. On a support site like this for the whole spectrum of TG oriented members and their SO's and others, it appears, whether intended or not, that the OP's are looking down their long noses at those that are different from themselves. Sounds familiar when looking at how the outside world sometimes looks at us. Whether one admits or denies that it is a fetish to them should mean nothing to us. Do we really need to always correct what they think when it is not really relevant to them enjoying themselves? If they are having fun, acting legally and not harming anyone else, then why make a big deal about it. Sure we all have bad days when we then read something that pushes a hot button or two. That happens to me sometimes. I normally just ignore it at first, as hard as that can be sometimes when I really want to reply. I may respond later hopefully in a more reasoned way. I have even wanted to start a rant thread about these types of useless and sometimes denigrating threads. Fortunately, so far I have been able to control that. There, now I feel better too!

[ME2.0]

If it's a fetish for you, then it is. Everyone has a different reason for dressing. I have about 8 dresses, but only 2 bra's and one gaff pantie. I also have about 6 skirts and 4 tops. Hardly the underwear fetishist. But sex is not why I do it. I do it as a form of escape. When my skin gets to tight as a guy, I'm free to become Staci for a few hours. There's no guilt, there's really no sexual turn on, I don't like guys, I'm married, and my wife approves. I don't consider it a fetish, I consider it a form of therapy. I look in the mirror, and I'm not me anymore. At least until I wash it off.

Hugs
Staci

[mariehart]

Of course it's a fetish for many. I do think perhaps we dance around the topic sometimes. But this forum is more broadbased than others, maybe a little conservative. But there are plenty of CD sites with a lot more fetishism going on.

Sadly I don't have a fetish unless occasionally feeling sexy counts. I am too boring. As for women not talking like that. I'm not so sure. I've often being among women accepted as one of them. The frankness of the discussion would shock most men. Even panties. I remember being shown one in wear to general approval. To be fair the talk was more about comfort and style in this case.

So let's be upfront about it. For some it's a fetish.

[Teresa]

Natasha,
Just a comment about women discussing underwear, a female work colleague commented on my wife's bust, she had just had her measurements checked and was wearing her new bra, she then lifted her top to show everyone, ( all females !) So who knows what else women talk about when they get together and why were underwear parties so popular at one time ?

[Seana Summer]

For some it is a fetish and for some its not.

I almost always read the threads about shoes but I do not consider myself to have a shoe fetish. I am simply looking for better fitting shoes. If I were unhappy with my panties I would read every panty thread to find out what is working for others.

I tend not to read the threads about whether or not you are attracted to men, sleep with men, hook up with men etc. . Maybe no one talks about that any more I don't know because I avoid those threads. I also do not read the threads about transitioning or taking female hormones. I am just not interested.:notlistening:

That dose not mean that I don't want those folks to post about it!! Just don't expect me to read or respond............... but please carry on without me

Some of you just get your panties in a knot too easily!! We are all different and have different interests and yes, fetishes whatever they may be.

BTW I just woke up after a long night.......still cranky......I am wearing my red silk nightie and Warner panties.......very comfy, I'd really be cranky if I wasn't...........In case one of you is interested...

and NO I am not going to post a pic

[Lynn Marie]

I have a couple of other hobbies that I've actually made spreadsheets of my collection. They help me keep track of where I spent all that money!

My lingerie isn't catalogued, nor do I brag about it. I don't even know what brands I'm wearing. I do know that my lingerie is attractive, sexy, and feels fabulous on my body even if it is all pretty tight. That's my fetish, and I truly love it!

[Rhonda Jean]

I think all or most of the talk of de-fetishizing it comes from plain old guilt. If I can make it into something not sexual I don't feel so bad or weird about it. So many of us at least will make an attempt to move beyond that and try to have some real experiences with it. But how many of us who have moved to a more "cosmetic" phase can truly say it's no longer a turn on in the least, not even a teentsy weenie bit?
C'mon be honest.

Well said.

[2B Natasha]

I think we have gotten off topic. This was/is more about the writing about underthings people wear. Not so much the fetish as the need to wax poetic and almost soft porn or erotic litaricure that lands on this pages.

Ya got a fetish. Great! Good for you. Everybody needs something. I have mine to.

But we as a community wrote about it. Then turn around and say it's not a fetish. Could've fooled me.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Natasha, this 'community' reluctance to admit when it's a 'fetish' when clearly the writing is on the wall (or the forum!) almost destroyed my marriage! For years my H denied what I knew at the pit of my stomach, denied over and over again despite me begging for real communication, finally culminating in me threatening divorce and he sitting down and admitting what dressing means to him. Yes, it's sexual and he was ashamed.

That's incredibly sad in my mind, and I know he had been 'advised' by others at forums he'd apparently frequented to play down the sexual aspect. But we wives, we just want honesty. I'd say society as a whole wants that, too, so there's little to gain by calling it one thing while behaving another.

I think this 'community' crossdressing idea is dangerous. You're all too different and your reasons for dressing too unique to box each other in like this. Many days I read here and women's clothing seems the only thing you all have in common. Surely this alone speaks volumes that there is no right or wrong way to crossdress? There's just men dressing like women for as many reasons as there are stars.

Tink's two cents...worth about half here these days, lol :)

[Teresa]

Tinkerbell please don't underestimate your contribution, we may not all agree with you but your comments are worth far more than that !!

[Melissa_59]

But have you ever heard a clutch of women sitting around discussing ad nauseam their underwear?

Actually, I have. Many times. It made me grin because I have my opinions on some of the brands and styles they were discussing but it's not like I could join in.

~Mel

[CONSUELO]

People who have made it theie business to study cross dressing say that fetishism is involved. They even call it transvestite fetishism. It certainly fits me despite all of the other "drivers" including feeling less stressed.
I think Natasha has a point as we do love to share all sorts of details about clothing including how it feels and looks as in slippery and shimmery.
That said, I say "so what!". Its what we like to do and what we like to talk about.

[Katey888]

Natasha - I think a lot of folk here would agree with you... and looking back through the posts here only a couple have specifically said it's not a fetish, me being one, and I readily admit that it used to be that way for me... (but I don't think I've ever eroticised any of my posts... not here, anyway... ;)) but I take your point and would agree with you that there is sometimes a degree of gratuitousness about the level of... inappropriate detail, let's say.. ;)

Some folk are a bit more exhibitionist than others... that's also the nature of an open forum... I would remind everyone that if they believe the rules have been breached, any one of you can report a thread or post if it's straying into space it shouldn't (Bottom left of every post - the warning triangle/exclamation mark activates the Bat Signal in the Moderators Cave :D) and y'all know, we do take action...

But we do also need the latitude to discuss gender, sexuality, and aspects of fetishistic stuff - I don't think it would be real life if we couldn't or didn't do that... I get what you're highlighting is also the slight tinge of hypocrisy that comes through sometimes...? But that's people too - raging hypocrites on the whole... we respond to what makes us tick, who we affiliate with, who we relate to and our self-interest...

At least you can have a safe and comfy rant here and feel better for it too... :cheer:

Katey x

[Barbara Jo]

What is one to wear.....male underwear?

I can only speak for myself but..... wearing female underwear (no matter what I wear over it) is the first step in dressing female.
It's the foundation of any female dressing . So. why shouldn't it it be relished?

Also, personally I have had females tell me that they prefer one article of underwear/stockings over another simply because of the way it feels and makes them feel more feminine....and they are constantly reminded of what they are wearing under their outer clothes.
All the lace and silky feminine underwear that is not meant to be seen is for the benefit of the wearer. GGs enjoy wearing feminine undies also. All the feminine undies/lingerie that we wear are meant for GG who love them. Why shouldn't we?

Don't most males dress to feel more masculine?
Could the average male feel his most masculine wearing panties?


BTW, I one met a CD (at a CD gathering) who told me that they always wore male underwear under all their female clothes as panties made them feel too feminine
Well.... yeah...... that is exactly the point! :)

[Kylee-Blackstad]

But have you ever heard a clutch of women sitting around discussing ad nauseam their underwear?

I giggled quite a bit as several groups of my lady friends have on a number of occasions....it usually comes up if someone happens to be wearing satin that day lol.

Anyway...so the point of explaining how it's not some sort of fetish...It reminds me in a way how some BDSM and other kink-centered subcultures (even some geeky) spend a massive amount of political capital trying ever so much to stamp out the fetish stamp boogeyman amongst each other repeating the mantras: "It's a lifestyle!" "It's nonsexual in anyway!" I know an individual in a kink-centered one who spends much of his time trying to distance himself from the people that do going so far to say he is oppressed by the sexual kinksters.

The sort of infighting and trying to successfully stamp it out is frustrating to me as it's entirely useless. If there's some social conservative out there giving someone like us the third degree I doubt saying it's nonsexual is somehow going to make any of that better. As far as partner's and friends are concerned, if I say "It's this to me" and give rather nuanced explanations, then it should be enough. People that have the patience and time to understand will understand what it is too you. It's the greater society having a lack of it is the problem to me. But there's nothing much there I can do about it to effectively combat that. In the end, I wonder how much of it matters as it will be sexual, non sexual, and slightly non sexual for some.

In summary, whoop de do if is for some, isn't for others, or somewhere in between.

[CynthiaD]

The simple answer is that I can say it's not a fetish, because it isn't. Not for me. There are people for whom it is a fetish. These people tend to talk more about their sexual responses to dressing than the color of their underwear. There are threads about underwear that are purely technical, like how to put on pantyhose without ripping them. I happily participate in these threads, because these are things that every girl needs to know. Most other underwear threads are not interesting to me, so I skip them. I'm much more interested in threads about interacting with the general public as a woman, because that's what makes crossdressing interesting to me.

[Lorileah]

according to Freud, isn't everything a fetish? :Pno sometimes a cigar is just a cigar


Well, it's better than talking about flatulence (which some people do a lot). Seems to me it's time for a new panty thread, or maybe a slip thread or girdle thread, camisole thread. You get the picture. ;):heehee::)
Do NOT make me hurt you :heehee:

One thing you need to understand here, there are a group who like to discuss underwear, or stockings, or shoes. The majority may join in from time to time, but the fetish isn't the big group here

[PaulaQ]

I always like to point out one thing about fetish dressers. Up until last year, I never fully dressed. I was into panties and stockings. It was highly sexual, and when I was done, I took em off immediately. That's it. Lot so' people on the forum swore I was just a fetish dresser.

And yet here I am now, a year into transition.

Your current CD behavior is not a predictor of anything.

[skirtsuit]

Unfortunately, Natasha, u have stumbled upon one of my pet peeves.

Even more unfortunately, I've had my evening glass of wine!

Ever since I first arrived here about 7 years ago, I suffered the slings and arrows of being a "fetish dresser" simply because looking like a female excites me.

Thru the years I have also suffered thru the countless "pantie" threads that r posted here. Panties not being one of my fetishes, I don't take part in them.

Why would ANYONE be so interested in clothing no one ever sees unless it arouses them? And yet, I'm the "fetish dresser"?

I'm with you Doc. It's absolutely a fetish for me.

Also -
This is the MtF discussion page of crossdressers.com. Thats right, crossdressers.com. For MtF crossdressers, underwear is a cause of a great deal of discussion and long and abiding interest. Complaining about underwear postings on a crossdressers discussion forum is a bit like complaining that people on a car forum seem obsessed with gasoline.

I for one have participated in and started many threads over the years on underthings and what to stuff them with to look my best. My best always includes hosiery, heels and a dress or skirt for otherwise I wouldn't feel like I was crossdressing.

Best,
SS / Ms. Wedge. Check me out on facebook- Richelle Wedge

[Alice_2014_B]

I never really felt the need to wear women's underwear, not an under-dresser I guess, so I guess I really do not know. I guess a stuffed bra is as far as I go, but that's it for me.

[devida]

So it looks like this thread, which began as a complaint about the obsessive way that some members discuss their panties, has become a survey. OK. I wear panties (at night) and shapewear during the day because I feel comfortable wearing them. I do also wear some men's compression long athletic underwear, especially when I exercise, which I also find comfortable. I wear women's very short shorts on top of them. Is this fetishistic? I doubt it. None of it turns me on but the underwear makes me happy. It makes me smile. I like putting it on. I like the way it feels. I cannot say the same of any normal men's underwear I ever wore. Liking my underpants was a completely foreign idea to me. I haven't liked clothes as much as I do now since I was a teenager. It isn't sexual. It is the sheer enjoyment of wearing something that feels good, looks good, flatters my body and helps to make me feel comfortable with my gender. What is not to like? I am delighted after all those years of not really caring what I wore I now am really interested in the way I look when I see myself in the mirror. I think it is a sign of good mental health!

[Sara Jessica]

Many days I read here and women's clothing seems the only thing you all have in common.

That may be true on a very superficial level but IRL, the reality is that it take more than this thing of ours to nurture and cultivate a true friendship. I have been blessed to have met and become friends with some of the most amazing people who I may not have met otherwise. But our friendships go well beyond the trans. We don't sit around and talk about our undies. In fact, I'd be surprised if trans-related conversation has exceeded 20% and that would be a generous estimate.

[Lucy_Bella]

But how many of us who have moved to a more "cosmetic" phase can truly say it's no longer a turn on in the least, not even a teentsy weenie bit?
C'mon be honest.

It's odd isn't it ? That this can grow from simply trying something on and then we add to it and what was once simple can no longer be complete ( for the fetisher not all cders are this way)..You are not satisfied anymore by just under dressing and all of the earlier phases no longer do nothing for you ..So the additions such as cosmetics have became a must, this cding is like cancer it really can consume you ..

[ophelia]

Nope, today I bought two pairs of Maidenform "Flexies" panties and let me tell you that the way they grab and press my "package" I don't think I'll need a tuck in the size 12 Liz Claiborne poweder blue shift I also bought today....really.BTW...god bless Value Village! the fabric is so super sexy but the big kicker is that just about anyone who discovered my new skin-tone Maidenforms would have a genuine xxit -fit is somehow titillating and therefore...fetishist.
May it ever be so!

[docrobbysherry]

What is one to wear.....male underwear?

I can only speak for myself but..... wearing female underwear (no matter what I wear over it) is the first step in dressing female.
It's the foundation of any female dressing . So. why shouldn't it it be relished?

Also, personally I have had females tell me that they prefer one article of underwear/stockings over another simply because of the way it feels and makes them feel more feminine....and they are constantly reminded of what they are wearing under their outer clothes.
All the lace and silky feminine underwear that is not meant to be seen is for the benefit of the wearer. GGs enjoy wearing feminine undies also. All the feminine undies/lingerie that we wear are meant for GG who love them. Why shouldn't we?------------------------------------
There's a river in Egypt some of u r sailing on. If wearing panties is exciting or makes u feel fem, it MAY be a fetish. Just look in the mirror and tell yourself, "---they feel more comfy, etc., is the only reason I wear them". But, don't try to convince me.:brolleyes:

I tried women's panties on when I first began dressing when EVERYTHING turned me on. I found them hot, uncomfortable, and they promote fall out. The ONLY reason I have ever worn them is because they hold my tuck. My comfy, cool, tidy whities can't do that job or I'd wear them every time I dress. From time to time, nylons, heels, skirts, prosthesis, pads, and forms, etc. have turned me on. Because those items make me LOOK and occasionally FEEL fem. Tite panties only accentuate the feel of my male part. That's NOT fem, only necessary to complete my look. Period. :straightface:


It's odd isn't it ? That this can grow from simply trying something on and then we add to it and what was once simple can no longer be complete ( for the fetisher not all cders are this way)..You are not satisfied anymore by just under dressing and all of the earlier phases no longer do nothing for you ..So the additions such as cosmetics have became a must, this cding is like cancer it really can consume you ..
That is SO TRUE, Lucy! There was a time long ago when I found just nylons, then underdressing, exciting. Didn't last long, tho. My first silicone breast forms turned me on for quite some time. Then, my prosthesis. But, now? It's become all or nothing. Sigh!:sad:

[LelaK]

If someone identifies with being a baby, I'd say they may then have that as their identity, not their fetish. Same holds for CDs et al.

[Frédérique]

How can we say it's not a fetish?

I guess some people are afraid of the word fetish, eh? :idontknow:

If you worship your femme clothes, over or under, you are engaged in fetishistic behavior, the same way a man who worships bacon, or a motorcycle, or certain female body parts is engaged in fetishistic behavior. In our case, the objects of veneration, objects that possess magical powers, are largely hidden from view, lest they be seen by non-believers…

:praying:

[Crissy Kay]

In my case, it is guilty as charged!!!

[sometimes_miss]

It really depends upon what definition of fetish you're using. Most people consider it a sexualized term, an item or a piece of clothing that a person needs for sexual excitement. So if that's what you're using, there are a huge number of us who don't connect being dressed as female as something distinctly for sexual reasons.

[Nadya]

I'm not sure I understand why describing the brands, colors, and other properties of clothing is a fetish. If I see a look that I really like or an article of clothing (such as pantyhose or tights), I would want to know where that person got it. Knowing brands of underwear could also help others find something that fits them better. It may not necessarily be a fetish, just girls trying to help others out. Sure, there may be an erotic trigger to it for people but it can also be very informative.

[ReineD]

But we as a community wrote about it. Then turn around and say it's not a fetish. Could've fooled me.

I suspect this is because people aren't keeping up with the redefinition of the term "fetish" among therapists. For most of our lives for many of us, it meant something depraved, something to be ashamed of because it wasn't "normal". It's in the DSM as a paraphilia, which is something to be cured. There also seems to be a very narrow definition of what it means to have a fetish. I suspect a lot of people here think that it necessarily means dressing or wearing a certain thing to have solo sex each time.

Actually, a fetish is increasingly being thought of as a natural and healthy alternative sexual interest, part of the many sexual interests that people have. We've discovered that not everyone is vanilla, in fact many people aren't, and it's OK ... as long as it hasn't got to the point where it has a negative impact on the person's life, for example if relationships are ruined because of it, or the person increasingly isolates himself in order to engage in the behavior, or it gets to the point where it is difficult to concentrate on work. There are gradients to everything. The very best way to have a fetish in any relationship, IMO, is if both people are into it. :)

Also, a fetish needn't mean engaging in it to have an orgasm each time. But it IS an alternative interest if it brings a thrill or a euphoric feeling … that little shiver down your spine. Sex is in the mind … like new lovers who reach highs just thinking about each other in the very beginning of their relationships, without necessarily having solo sex or sex together, but who definitely feel that tingle. It IS sexual even if does not culminate in a sexual act. Also we all have different libidos especially as we age, and the natural highs a CDer may feel when dressing may only culminate in an orgasm occasionally. This does not make it any less an alternative sexual interest. But, a fetish IS something people like to talk about, think about, wax poetic about.



Also, personally I have had females tell me that they prefer one article of underwear/stockings over another simply because of the way it feels and makes them feel more feminine....and they are constantly reminded of what they are wearing under their outer clothes.
All the lace and silky feminine underwear that is not meant to be seen is for the benefit of the wearer. GGs enjoy wearing feminine undies also. All the feminine undies/lingerie that we wear are meant for GG who love them. Why shouldn't we?

They're actually meant for GGs to impress the males in their lives. Women know that men are visual and they want to be attractive for them. And we are not constantly reminded of what we are wearing under our clothes when we have them on.

If we do talk about our lingerie, it is because someone mentions having found an underwire bra brand that doesn't pierce the underside of her boobs, or a brand of pantyhose that won't run the first time they're worn. It does make sense to talk about practical matters in this forum, if CDers want to know which brand is likely to keep the boys in or won't ride up in the back, etc. But I don't think these are the type of posts the OP meant at all.

Also, GGs do enjoy wearing the sexy panties but for entirely different reasons than do the crossdressers who talk about them in a certain way. And as mentioned above, there is nothing wrong with having an alternative sexual interest, so there is no need for the argument, "If the GGs wear them, it must mean they feel like I do, and so why can't I wear them as well".

[NancyJ]

Okay. I have a fetish for feminine underthings. So what? Yes, I realize that these items have more meaning to me than they do for GG's (btw thanks Reine for your comments--helpful as always). However, I don't have female body parts or outward appearance to help me feel feminine, the underwear that I love to wear is symbolic of my femininity and my 24/7 underdressing is not erotized, but essential to being "Nancy" on the inside when I must present to the world as a guy in day-to-day life. I do not think that having a "fetish" for the underwear in any way diminishes the gender dysphoria that I also feel. I know that I feel differently about all female clothing than guys who do not have gender "issues," and I also feel differently about female clothing than virtually all women. I have fetishes for certain female clothing items, and I like to dress as a woman, and my dressing is far more than sexual; in fact often not sexual at all. Nancy

[suchacutie]

Fascinating thread!

Is Tina a fetish dresser? No. Maybe starting at age 55 is part of it, but I feel the main part of it is that she is too darn busy trying to figure out her life to be worried about the sexual part of things. Her male side takes care of that very nicely, and that's the way my SO likes it.

Is dressing a sensual situation? Sure. But so is dressing in a well-fitting tux!

[giuseppina]

I agree with your OP, Natasha. That said, I haven't read the rest of the posts.

While there is a small sexual component to my dressing, I doubt it qualifies as a fetish. I lose interest rapidly when people post TMI about what they are wearing.

[Lucy_Bella]

Reine, thanks for redefining the definition and you are spot on although it's still barely just began .. I wholly agree but I differ in the sexual aspect and here is to why... True with the female genetic ( being a GG) that the sexual attraction is for the male benefit ..No argument there and that is what makes SOME OF us males turn to x dress ,that drive... I have zero doubt on that...But the question is and always has been why? Why do we continue to x dress during a relationship with our genetic female partners?

Good question huh?

Why do some people breath from their nose while others from their mouth? Sex is a strong factor in a males DNA so strong in fact that the mans man would most likely be a fetish dresser ,you know that guy that every macho man looks up to..Yeah sure ...Lucy pat yourself on the back and lets roll onto the next thread..But putting myself a side ,there has been studies done on this very subject although rare,,Why? Because your not going to get many " manly men" to out themselves to be studied.. I'll leave this alone for now as food for thought with a tag line..

What I just wrote was in no way placing any type of x dressing above any other type of x dressing and what I have wrote was not directed at any type of xdressing and was in no way placing any type of x dressing above any other..

[Badwolf]

But how many of us who have moved to a more "cosmetic" phase can truly say it's no longer a turn on in the least, not even a teentsy weenie bit?
C'mon be honest.

Fetish has a few definitions. If the desire to dress is based on sexualized feelings, it is a fetish. The merriam webster definition goes as far as saying it is "necessary for sexual gratification". Being turned on by it as long as it isn't the motivation does not make it a fetish.

There is another definition that makes it more likely we all fit into. "An object of irrational reverence or obsessive devotion", but this one removes sexual feelings from the definition. Everyone has this in one way or another.

Just read a post earlier today where someone said they got turned on by both women and hot rods.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetish

ReineD's definition, while not recognized by most official sources, is a common movement in society. BDSM and the Japanese leading the charge. The use seems to suggest more like sexual play that deviates from the norm.

[Lorileah]

Or as Freud once said "Sometimes a fetish is a small object you think has special powers" well he would have said that if he was still alive

[ReineD]

This is one of the best, rather short articles I've read on fetishes, from a therapist in California. The message here is to accept and work with it rather than try to cure or squelch it, and to get over the guilt. I dare say that most therapists (if consulted), will follow this approach, providing the person who has the fetish does NOT feel that his life has been negatively impacted with it (see above for the ways that it can go overboard for some people). So basically, if the person has a happy and productive life, he should just relax and enjoy his alternative sexual attractions! :)

http://www.therapywithcare.com/Article_Fetish.html

There is even a new, 2013 textbook for therapists on Counseling LBGT Clients (http://www.amazon.com/Counseling-LGBTI-Clients-Kevin-Alderson/dp/1412987180), that has a chapter devoted to crossdressers including those who dress for fetish. The message there is the same … help your clients come to terms with who they are and get over the guilt.

[NicoleScott]

Reine, I think the article was pretty good, even with a flaw in the opening. It says he was fixated on the contestant's shoes, and then that he has a foot fetish. A fetish for feet isn't the same as a fetish for high heels, and the author should have known that. Of course, there could have a fetish for both, but that wasn't said. Anyway, it made me question the authority of the author, but the article after that was generally pretty good.
Discussions about fetishes, like other topics, go nowhere because there is no agreement on definitions. Yes, some definitions are about fixations and magical powers that don't involve anything sexual, but it seems to me that when we discuss fetishes here it is about the sexual response many crossdressers have to certain items of women's wear. Maybe it's necessary to say "sexual fetish" when we mean just that.
I remember a thread a few years ago: "What's Your Fetish?" Some responses were "I like pantyhose" or "I like [whatever]. That doesn't fit the definition. Many responses were "I don't have a fetish" which makes me wonder why such a response was necessary at all to the question, except to send a message that they dress because they are girly-girls and not men getting off on objects, an indication that they see it as a bad thing.
Maybe threads like this should begin with "for the purpose of this discussion, a fetish is defined as ............"

[Lucy_Bella]

I like to think of my experiences as a" sexual stimuli " and the attraction really isn't to the clothing but one might think it started out that way at first..It may have always been a mind stimulation because for me the real attraction was to " femininity" which may or may not be an object ( femininity is best known as a gender but can be related to the objects or qualities of being a female such as high heels ,make-up or clothing)..Maybe some of you have read this and I know it doesn't fit the majority of the trans people here on this site but I find it helpful..http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Fetishism.html

[ReineD]

It may have always been a mind stimulation because for me the real attraction was to " femininity" which may or may not be an object ( femininity is best known as a gender but can be related to the objects or qualities of being a female such as high heels ,make-up or clothing)..

I think an attraction to femininity qualifies. I don't think descriptions of fetishes can possibly include everything but generally it is becoming aroused over anything that is not a sexual partner: objects, specific body parts (like feet), or specific situations (like the thought of specifically being a sexy, attractive woman … as opposed to just wanting an average, feminine version of oneself). But before naysayers respond to this, I am speaking strictly of individuals who do get that tingle, that high, even if it doesn't culminate in sexual gratification every time … meaning that for a 20 year old it may culminate, but not necessarily for a 50 year old.

Anyway, hopefully people know when the excitement is of a sexual nature or not.

Nicole, this definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_fetish) says that foot fetish is defined as a pronounced sexual interest in the feet or footwear.

[PaulaQ]

How does one distinguish between "fetish," "gender identity," or "something else" for the following:
1. MtF heterosexual CDs
2. MtF homosexual CDs
3. Drag Queens
4. MtF transgender woman - pre-understanding her gender identity

That is, I'm asking how does one examine individuals in the above categories, and determine, based on their behavior and feelings whether they are not members of the fourth group I list, MtF transgender women who don't yet understand their gender identity?

[Lucy_Bella]

How does one distinguish between "fetish," "gender identity," or "something else" for the following:
1. MtF heterosexual CDs
2. MtF homosexual CDs
3. Drag Queens
4. MtF transgender woman - pre-understanding her gender identity



Paula ,

A fetish dresser can also be any of those you listed I just so happen to be a heterosexual and a non professional X-dresser who has no GID..

You would have to understand that being a fetishist and having gender identity are two different things but it is possible for one person to have either or both..

Just like some people might call their dressing a" hobby" or an" addiction" because you do enjoy wearing some of the items and we seem to collect them but unlike someone who may have a drug "addiction" ( you do not want to become heroine ).. A fetish is something you sometimes emulate ( some people have extreme fetishisms and do surgical changes) like a person who may have a animal fetish will do in costume.. A "sexual fetish" ( yet different in some ways as other fetishisms ) can sometimes include like the "animal fetish" emulating, like wearing the high heels or admiring shaved thighs with stockings on for sexual arousal or gratification.. This does not include the reason for others who may x-dress..

[PaulaQ]

A fetish dresser can also be any of those you listed I just so happen to be a heterosexual and a non professional X-dresser who has no GID..

You would have to understand that being a fetishist and having gender identity are two different things but it is possible for one person to have either or both..


Ok sure, but objectively how can you tell those groups apart? I know several transsexuals who identified as fetish dressers, myself included. What's the litmus test that separates these groups? Every GG on this forum would like to know it to be sure that one day their spouse / SO won't transition.

That can't be that hard, right?

[devida]

So it seems the consensus on this thread is that a fetish is anything that gives you pleasure, mostly a sexual pleasure but maybe any kind of good feeling. I think this pretty much deprives the word of a precise meaning. Somone did mention another, perhaps more useful, definition, that of a fetish as a magical object that facilitates or eases a kind of transformation. If we use that definition fetish applies to each of Paula's four categories, though in somewhat different ways. For straight cds and drag queens the transformation is more performative while for mtf homosexuals and trans women it may be more an expression of core identity. In other words both drag queens and straight cds do not use womens clothes to confirm their gender identity. They are performing rather than identifying. Paula missed me in her categories although I would suppose for non binaries wearing clothes not of our assigned gender would be similar to that of trans women. It would be related to gender identity and related to core feelings of gender identity rather than performative.

But I do think all of Paula's categories are part of a non normative gender spectrum so maye we are all dancing on the head of a pin.

So the litmus test would be, Paula, is the use of clothes performative or an assertion of gender identity?

The gay man wearing women's clothes does kind of puzzle me, but maybe it shouldn't. There is no reason a gay dmab has to identify as male any more than I, a bisexual dmab has to so identify. Wearing women's clothes for a dmab who dislikes identifying as male gender could certainly be an expression of gender identity without suggesting that that person's sexual preference has or is changing. I think we might have a couple of examples of this among our members.

But all this, because of our conditioning, is difficult. Even for someone like me who has a quite radical view of sexuality and gender it is difficult not to default to the old, tired, and inaccurate ways of looking at the incredible diversity of human beings.

[PaulaQ]

@devida - my point exactly

[Lucy_Bella]

Ok sure, but objectively how can you tell those groups apart? I know several transsexuals who identified as fetish dressers, myself included. What's the litmus test that separates these groups? Every GG on this forum would like to know it

It's fairly simple if you are not trying to paint us all with the same brush.... The "attraction of femininity" or the "desire to be feminine" you pick.. You can have one of the two or you can have them both but they are separate .. Why? Because some x-dressers have a desire, even a little amount to be" feminine" that's G.D. ..While the other is the attraction to "femininity" ( or the fetish aspect of it) while some may even have both or could have had one and grew into the other but that isn't often or is rare as a whole ..Does that help?

[NicoleScott]

Nicole, this definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_fetish) says that foot fetish is defined as a pronounced sexual interest in the feet or footwear.

OK, there's a definition that includes both, but there is a difference. So I guess shoe fetish falls under the foot fetish umbrella. Yay, we love umbrellas, don't we? I do agree with you that if you have a sexual fetish, you know it.

[samantha rogers]

It might be mentioned again, as Paula did already, that we are not necessarily talking about a constant here but rather something which can be a moving target. Early on, before recognition of a GID is recognized and accepted, an individual may experience conditions that qualify as fetishistic but may also move beyond that as a true gender identity mismatch becomes apparent.
Years and years ago I would have considered my own situation as a fetish, but that would have betrayed ignorance, I believe, knowing as I do now that it was and is far deeper and stronger than that.
There is no longer any connection for me between sexual arousal and clothing but rather just a deep satisfaction in knowing things are closer to what they ought to be. More and more, when I present male, as my situation still requires much to my frustration, it is in this male mode that I feel I am in some kind of costume and playing the same tired old artificial role I should rightly have moved beyond years ago.
Sigh...
But, my situation is less relevant I am sure in comparison to those whose Cross-dressing is strictly static.
I just wanted to reiterate that what is true today, or seemingly apparent, may be different tomorrow.

[PaulaQ]

@Samantha Rogers - yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

@Lucy Bella - yes, I can agree that there is a difference between a need for feminine expression, and a need for feminine identity. If there weren't CDs and DQs wouldn't exist, and we'd all just be trans.

My point is that trying to say there's thing thing called a fetish for feminine expression that appears to be exactly identical to the behavior of many who also have feminine identities, but don't know it yet, is a very questionable proposition. Because you, me, or the best therapist or neurologist on earth can't tell whether or not someone will transition until after the fact.

It's reassuring to think "no way that could happen to me." And for most of you, that's probably true. But not for all, and no one will no for sure until it's rather late in the game.

[Lucy_Bella]

My point is that trying to say there's thing thing called a fetish for feminine expression that appears to be exactly identical to the behavior of many who also have feminine identities, but don't know it yet, is a very questionable proposition. Because you, me, or the best therapist or neurologist on earth can't tell whether or not someone will transition until after the fact

You are exactly correct Paula .. However that would be extreme and as posted earlier very few are extreme ..Rare in the general population but maybe not so rare on this site, perhaps? Please also keep in mind ( as you suggested ) that some do not recognize or have come to terms with having GID and the sexual aspect of their earlier dressing might not have always been a Fetish ( puberty maybe ?) ..Only you can determine that ...Am I saying I will never transition ? Hell yeah I am saying that..For one I love women more than I adore the image of myself as one( beer goggles on of course).. I love being a male more so than the thought of being a female ,I do not ever see myself living my life as the opposite sex.....Can I say that about anyone else ? Of course not and I will never be foolish enough to try.. We all have our reasons for what we do and some may have multiply reasons because no REASONS are prejudice and everyone is acceptable to be or become a T.F.

But if you ask me, I believe that just as being gay isn't a choice neither is being a T.S. or T.G.

[Mia27]

I agree that it is a fetish. Well for me at least. I get such a rush dressing up!! i feel sexier and way more sexually driven!! i love wearing cute panties and matching bras. It just makes sense for whatever reason. And i love to look as feminine as possible!! The sexier i look the sexier i feel. So guess since i get such a rush, it must be a fetish

[missVS]

I definetely think it is more of a fetish for me.The stimulation I get from dressing as a woman. As Mia27 wrote I like being sexual when I dress up. Right now I have on beautiful glamour sheers lace top stockings from Victoria'S secret. Vintage lace front panties V.S. Beautiful V.S. gown black with rhinestones in boob area. De blossom beautiful satin heels. Transform forms perfect for 38D. Lots of jewelry. Victoria's secret color drama lipstick in fiery red. smoky eyehadow set from Victoria's secret put on with sephora brush set. All these hot woman things help create what I become. Call it a fetish, alternative life style,crossdresser, transgender etc. It works for me when I transform at the time.
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[ophelia]

Our brains say "do it again, we like it, do it again we like it!" Of course it is a fetish. I got horny the first time my mom parted my longish 70's hair down the middle and put it in a ponytail while I was painting the floor in the pantry. And 45 years later it is still a sexual turn-on to look in the mirror after a makeover and see me enhanced and focused as a beautiful she. Every dressing session for me must end in sexual "release". And what's so wrong with that?
And it is a completely different feeling of release than orgasm with a woman.

Playing the girl once in awhile is always a turn-on. And maybe 24/7 would be interesting... for awhile, but saying goodbye to my male identity both mentally and....physically...not a turn-on in the least.

[Barbara Jo]

They're actually meant for GGs to impress the males in their lives. Women know that men are visual and they want to be attractive for them. And we are not constantly reminded of what we are wearing under our clothes when we have them on

Actually,studies have shown that not to be the case.
Also many older women wear fancy bras and panties who are not even in the dating pool.

In any event it has been shown that it is actually men who dress for the opposite sex but women dress to impress each other and also wear what they enjoy wearing .
Let's not loose site of the fact that most GGs like to wear clothes that make them feel feminine also.

There are also thee main popular colors for bras and panties and woman have given their reasons for liking them.
1) White.....It makes the feel virginal and pure.
2) nude.. It make them feel naked .
20 Black.....It makes them feel sexy/wicked.

So, yes, most females are conscious of the underwear and wear what they enjoy .

BTW, you are not reminded what you have on under your dress, etc?
Try wearing men,s cotton boxers under you dress and tell me that! :)

[ReineD]

Whitey Tighties? They'd create a bulge under my jeans. No way! lol

But I would wear my SO's tiny, satin male underwear. They're not that different from female underwear. They even have an animal print. :D