Headline! Tranny Walks Away Unscathed After Bus Accident!

[LeaP]

TS responses only. I.e., if you are post-op, post-transition, on prescribed hormones, or in active transition (meaning in RLE/pre-op).

Sounds the same, but it's a different thread!

The question - at what point can someone abandon transition without damage? For this purpose, the timeline may be considered as any point after the transition decision has been made ... that is, as long as that decision was communicated to someone.

Unlike my prior thread, I'm not going to start with my opinion or offer a conceptual framework for answering. I will state that I passed the no-damage point long ago, and that it would now extend into finances, permanent physical changes, and implications for my marriage, family relationships, and work relationships.

[Angela Campbell]

I would think that time is when you come out to everyone. That is something you cannot undo.

[LeaP]

So one answer is that risk of damage is incurred from communication itself. But how bad could that be? Logically, that depends on what the relationship is, doesn't it?

[Anne2345]

I have already suffered "damage" and consequences, and am well beyond the point of being able to safely abandon my transition without having paid a price for the actions I have taken to date. However, for the sake of this exercise, I think it may be helpful to narrow down the definition of "damage."

[Megan G]

I would have to agree with Angela, once you are out to everyone then it is too late. There will be damage of some sort..

If you are only out to immediate family members (mother,father,wife) the damage will most likely minimal and you would be able to abandon transition easily..

Megan..

[stefan37]

Nobody escapes unscathed. You can do facial hair removal, hrt and even some wardrobe change without consequence. Not saying there won't be, but it's possible. Once you disclose you are transitioning there will be some type of damage. In many cases the farther you travel the more losses will pile up. I have had a relatively easy transition to date. My clients, employee, friends and family have been accepting. My marriage is toast, and although we are business partners, we are drifting apart very quickly.

We all transition to a comfortable waypoint wherever that is. There will be some type of damage and much of it is uncontrollable.

[Kathryn Martin]

You cannot abandon transition without damage - ever.

You anticipate transition and (as we discussed many times) the gate is open, the road is clearly visible and mapped but you haven't taken a single step! Consider closing the gate - what injury will follow?

You have begun to prepare your social environment for transition (you know THE day) - what will be the consequence of retreating - what is that injury?

You have stepped on the path - you are in reality - you turn and walk it all back - what injuries will you suffer?

[PretzelGirl]

My first thought was that I agree with the thought of telling people as when damage started. But as I thought about it, two things affect the answer.

One is what you consider damage. Someone may consider it damage to start laser and then after backing out, they can't grow a beard or mustache. So damage is relative to the person's thoughts and wishes.

The second is the sequence of transition. My damage was that I started telling people close to me right away because I wanted them to have all the time they needed to come to terms with it. Others may have the affects of HRT do the damage first as they hadn't told anyone yet. Once I started seeing someone post here that they were almost ready to transition but they had never been out their door in their preferred presentation, then I knew there were no good assumptions about sequence.

[Jorja]

Abandoning transition was never a thought I had so I cannot give you a good answer.

[ptp009]

I don't think you can abandon without damage. The most impotant problem is not the damge others see but what you percieve. Starting transition is a committment so be thought out well in advance, but once you start soemtimes the damage you percieve is really your guilt getting to you. Hopefully you can back up a little but dressing less publicly but the cat's out of the bag and she an't going back in. Jenn

[KellyJameson]

If someone transitions that is not biologically and psychologically a woman they will experience damage. When I say biologically I'm talking about a brain and mind meant to live as a woman as how hormones affect the brain and subsequently the mind and the structure of the physical brain such as cross talk between hemispheres along with the make up of white and grey matter.

The damage from abandoning transition would be different between a transsexual and a non-transsexual and for opposite reasons and it would happen at different points in their transition but also the damage for both would also happen at different points depending on individual circumstances such as the age transitioning is begun.

No two transitions are alike but most share some similarities and the age someone transitions is probably one of the biggest differences. In my opinion the sooner the better to avoid many of the problems inherent in transitioning later in life, such as greater health risks and social entanglements.

Early transitioning is in itself a form of damage control or it could destroy a life that is only begining to live.

[Rianna Humble]

I'm sorry, but to me the question makes no sense. If someone has started transition because they absolutely must, which is the advice given all the time here despite the suggestion of certain trolls, they would not even be able to consider abandoning the steps that are necessary to their very survival.

Even in my darkest moments - and there have been a number of those - I knew that the only way for me to survive was to see my transition through.

I know that some believe that the WPATH's mention of hormones as a diagnostic tool is license for a "suck it and see" pseudo transition, but I don't believe that that is the only possible interpretation of WPATH.

[celeste26]

To put it into different words:

Living with GD damages the body/mind daily. Starting on HRT reduces/eliminates that daily damage. If there is no true GD starting HRT will not solve the problem and it will eventually become very clear, possibly creating more/different damage. But being "clear" is a reward of itself.

Stopping HRT after coming to this clear state leaves some changes but call them the "price for being clear." Without the continual hormones, things will be more fluid and repairable and the "clear" does not go away.

[LeaP]

Consensus - damage after start. This tells a different story than "the system worked as designed." Yes, I know they aren't mutually exclusive, but the message here doesn't get told often enough.

[Kimberly Kael]

I don't think there's a line in the sand, exactly. The goal should be to make responsible, informed decisions that stand the best possible chance of improving your life. If de-transitioning is what accomplishes that then it's because it does enough good to balance out any harm done, and there's no fixed timeline attached. I would hope that in most cases this would means that the decision to transition in the first place was based on an assumption that proved to be false. If depression was misinterpreted as dysphoria, for example, then transitioning would likely just pile gender dysphoria on top of the depression and reversing course would make a ton of sense.

On the other hand, if the goal is to "un-ring the bell" and take a relationship back to what it was before? To recapture a career gone wrong? I suspect it never works that way. Disclosure is irreversible, and the loss of trust combined with compromising on a matter of identity is likely to be painful and messy.

[whowhatwhen]

I don't see it as grim as you all are.

Hair removal: Lots of guys don't naturally have lots of hair to begin with.
Breast growth: Lots of guys already have gynocomastia, unless you grew B+ you're not going to be that bad.
Coming out: You be honest with them, your relationship has changed but in the end you're living for you not them.
Imagine a bi guy coming out as gay and later on coming out as straight/bi, they did honest soul searching and how your friends/family take that depends on their character.

There are other physical effects that may or may not reverse in time, but they're not life ending either.
Honestly it's better that someone say "My path ends here, I need to stop" rather than trying to fudge their way through.

Detransition is not ideal and no one wants someone to start if they don't need to, but I'm not sure it's as life ending and destructive as you're all picturing.
Or maybe it is, how about some real people telling us their actual experiences?

[LeaP]

This isn't about detransition. It's about the implications of exposure and change and investment.

[whowhatwhen]

Post still applies.
You might say it gets real difficult after surgical procedures but even then men appear naturally with feminine features but nothing that's going to cause you difficulty fitting back in.

Maybe it's just me but the general attitude of having someone as a victim that will never recover is kinda sad, people are more resilient than they get credit for.

[stefan37]

I think you are missing the point. It's not about detransitioning but do any Ts go through the process unscathed. No matter where you end up you will have experienced some pain. I stand by my experience and those I know, once you disclose to live as female you will experience some degree of damage. In many cases the spouse suffers the most as they watch the person they know and love change in front of them.

[whowhatwhen]

I read the question as being what point during transition does abandoning ship cause damage, imho that falls into what I posted.

I never denied that there would be damage done do their relationship as well as effects from the hormonal changes, what I contested was the whole air of lives being irreparably destroyed leaving behind a hollow husk of a human being so disgusting they only emerge from the sewer at night to scavenge from dumpsters.

Shit happens, people will move on, including you (not you directly).

[stefan37]

It doesn't matter at what point you find comfort and abandon transition. Once you disclose your intentions you will incur some damage.

If a person doesn't disclose that they are transitioning and abandon it before the physical changes are permanent, then yes I would say no harm no foul.

[LeaP]

I don't see it as grim as you all are.

Hair removal: Lots of guys don't naturally have lots of hair to begin with.
Breast growth: Lots of guys already have gynocomastia, unless you grew B+ you're not going to be that bad.
Coming out: You be honest with them, your relationship has changed but in the end you're living for you not them.
Imagine a bi guy coming out as gay and later on coming out as straight/bi, they did honest soul searching and how your friends/family take that depends on their character.

There are other physical effects that may or may not reverse in time, but they're not life ending either.
Honestly it's better that someone say "My path ends here, I need to stop" rather than trying to fudge their way through.
...

I'm not reading the grimness you are. The point of the OP is to assess what level and kinds of damage are incurred. THAT would be a useful outcome of the thread.

On your themes:

Hair removal - completely irrelevant, in my view, unless you come from a culture that values facial hair (e.g., Middle Eastern).

Breast growth - lots of older guys have gynecomastia. Younger, not so much. Not is typical male growth the same as breast growth. This can EASILY be very limiting (beach, pool, tees, etc.)

Coming out - I disagree strongly with you here. Coming out as female - that's what we are talking about here - is very different! You WILL undermine your credibility in a fundamental way.

[whowhatwhen]

It's gonna suck for sure but it's not going to be the end of the world, lots of people make life shattering decisions that bite their ass in a big way yet manage to come out on top.

Maybe not this thread specifically but I've read a few posts where the general tone is that it's all over for that person, not relevant to this thread I guess but the perpetual victim thing irks me.

[becky77]

Coming out - I disagree strongly with you here. Coming out as female - that's what we are talking about here - is very different! You WILL undermine your credibility in a fundamental way.

I think this is the main one as it comes down to society and stigma. Once out no one will view you the same again, to admit to being female is to admit to being weaker in the eyes of most men. Failing that they may just think your odd, either way you can't take that back.
Someone that has put their depression or some kind of mid-life crisis down to GD and transitions will suffer massively, but then you would wonder how they got that far in the first place.
I'm generally uncomfortable in male company eg Beer in the pub with the guys scenario, added to that I have few of those types of friends so little has changed for me socially. If you was one of those guys, (transition it didn't solve the problem so de-transition), those guys will never accept you as the same, you will always be different.

[stefan37]

@ whatnot,

How many people are you out? I will tell you from experience it changes how those you disclose to view you. Many may accept and the relationship won't change. But to many it will. And usually not in good way. It will most certainly change with you family and if married the relationship with them will definitely change and not for the better in many cases.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

If you tell all your friends you are a woman and that you are transitioning, and then you don't, you will have a lot of very relieved friends and family..., and all of your friends and family will think you are nuts to varying degrees...
and god forbid you do what happens more often than not and decide you need to transition anyway...

end of the world?? of course not, but who said it was??

[whowhatwhen]

@ whatnot,

How many people are you out? I will tell you from experience it changes how those you disclose to view you. Many may accept and the relationship won't change. But to many it will. And usually not in good way. It will most certainly change with you family and if married the relationship with them will definitely change and not for the better in many cases.

I'm out to a few and yes those relationships have most certainly changed forever.
I've never said that they wouldn't, what I'm saying is that people will get over it and if they don't then it's their own problem.

There are a few life changing things that will forever alter people's perception of you but it's not all doom and gloom, people move on and get over it.
I can't speak to those in relationships though, identity is an all or nothing thing so I can't imagine making compromises in that regard. Honestly I think more people should split if it causes problems, I've seen enough unhappy sham marriages.

Of course this is all meaningless theory without having someone who has actually stopped transition weighing in.

[LeaP]

There are two sides to the "it's their problem" response. There is no reason to take in people's judgments or guilt. On the other hand there is real impact to your life when people involved in your life make things difficult. At worst, that triggers divorce and custody issues, work problems, inter-family relationship issues, etc. Those are losses, not just a matter of dismissal.

Views differ on relationships. Part of my identity is wrapped into and taken from my marriage. No, not gender, but it makes the idea of splitting over even serious problems more involved than you suggest. There are few (if any) absolutes in a good marriage. I don't blame anyone for making choices and drawing lines where they will and I'm no different in that regard. I will say that I'll go through hell before I'll give up. And most of those I know will, too.

The other thing to consider is not just failed and broken relationships, but those that are compromised. Reaching accommodation, truce, tolerance, etc. is something you and they live with, not get over.

[Starling]

It's horrible to be outed involuntarily, yet not moving on with transition. It's was one thing for me to confide in a few people who I really am, as I did when I came to terms with my transness and began making transition plans; even when my high hopes started to curdle a bit, they stuck with me. But it sucks when the word gets out more broadly (not from the people I told, by the way), and through the lens of anger. This happened to me, and involved people very close and very dear to me. I can easily imagine that in their eyes, I'm no longer a man, but I'm not a woman, either. These were people who liked me and respected me a lot, and who now the consider me a pervert. "They still love" me, I hear, but the last time I saw them there was a glass wall between us.

It's the worst of both worlds.

:) Lallie

[arbon]

I don't know the answer to the question, or if it is even a relevant question. If you are transsexual it seems to me eventually, one way or another its going to create problems in your life. And even if you were to decide to transition and then abandon the idea before things got to interesting, your still going to have to live with yourself.

It was something that haunted me my whole life and regardless of any decision I did or did not make it was having a negative impact on my life.

[LeaP]

Theresa, you are correct ... as long as a TS continues down the path, there will be issues somewhere, with someone,mover something.

The point of the thread is to articulate the risk of getting ahead of yourself. One way is notifying people (other than your SO) prematurely. Completely unnecessary, yet it happens all the time.

[SassySal]

The point of the thread is to articulate the risk of getting ahead of yourself. One way is notifying people (other than your SO) prematurely. Completely unnecessary, yet it happens all the time.

It sounds like to me that you are suggesting that people "engage brain, before releasing mouth". Good advice!

[LeaP]

Oh, I understand the internal pressure to come out! For the most part, I've managed to have my brain running my mouth and not the reverse.

But I think the likelihood of someone coming out over time goes up not just because they are, shall we politely say, ill-advised, but because people move from excitement and newness to simply not thinking about it at all. I.e., from such things as self-assurance and comfort.

One common response is that there is a generational difference that is relevant. Specifically, that young people don't have an issue with this … that it's an old person thing. To which I respond that this is true to a degree. The same revelation that would have resulted in my being a pariah in my 20s would not necessarily come down that way today. There WERE things in my 20s that would have been unacceptable to my parents.

Still-a few cautions. One is that the things that are acceptable at one age are often not at another. A second is that if things can change rapidly socially, it can go two ways. Acceptance can unravel socially as quickly as it can come together. Yet another is vested interests. Someone just establishing himself in life has no idea how much these will influence acceptance.

[Rogina B]

Still-a few cautions. One is that the things that are acceptable at one age are often not at another. A second is that if things can change rapidly socially, it can go two ways. Acceptance can unravel socially as quickly as it can come together. Yet another is vested interests. Someone just establishing himself in life has no idea how much these will influence acceptance.
As I read some threads,I often think about the differences between a young,unencumbered person and an older,burdened person.It is clearly two very different worlds.Very nicely said!