Microagressions at the mexican joint

[PaulaQ]

Me and two of my trans friends went out for dinner at a local Mexican restaurant. (Manny's Uptown - really good Mexican food!) The staff there is really nice to us (I am a good tipper), and it's in a mostly accepting part of town. So one of the waitresses comes over to the table, and with a very concerned look on her face, and points out that two women in a table behind us were laughing at us and taking photos of us on their cell phone's.

Hilarious - I get the joke - we're something to share on instagram or twitter: "Trannies at Manny's." Har dee har har.

We get this from time to time at various places - it's happened at Walmart and a couple of other places as well.

My friends wanted to go say something to these women, but I told them not to. Really, what can be gained by that? They'd just draw even more attention, and it would disrupt the meals of others at the restaurant who weren't being jerks. We were all pretty angry about it though.

I dunno, I've been in transition for 11 months now, so I've had enough incidents like this so that it doesn't really bother me that much anymore. (People staring at me I don't even notice now.) The only thing that really bothers me about it is that I won't bother talking to my family about it. They really don't believe stuff like this happens. I've tried telling them before. They don't get it. They try to explain it away, or deny it. That lack of understanding frustrates me way more than the event itself, at this point.

I know most of us have had stuff like this happen from time to time. Anyone have any especially memorable microagressions? What'd you do about it at the time, if anything?

[Eryn]

I don't know if I would call such incidents "aggressions," micro or not.

Younger people will see something interesting and whip out their phone. Not much you can do short of grabbing it and dunking it in their soda!

Frankly, life is too short to concern myself with such people. The people who count, my friends and acquaintances, treat me as I present. If I happen to give a teenybopper with a cameraphone a thrill so be it. I've made their life a bit more interesting and perhaps made the TG world a bit less remote to them.

[arbon]

that is pretty rude...some people are just not to bright and don't really understand what they are doing or how it makes someone feel. Sorry you had that happen.

[whowhatwhen]

I had a couple stare at me and talk in another language while going up an escalator.
It wasn't that upsetting but damn at least make it look a little less obvious.

[Ineke Vashon]

Perhaps you could fight fire with fire, whip out your own cell phone and take their picture. Then you and your partner can point at the picture and crack up laughing.

Or, have the waittress bring them a couple of margaritas with your compliments :drink:

Ineke

[PaulaQ]

@Eryn - they weren't teenagers. These were grown women, late 20's, early 30's I'd guess. They were old enough to know better. Look, I don't really mind going to Uptown, the nearby neighborhood where all the straight folks live and providing some local color for them to gawk at. ("Look Martha! Transsexuals!")

Pointing, giggling, and taking and posting photos is definitely rude and mocking.

Most of the folks in that neighborhood are a lot cooler than that. Maybe they were slumming from Plano?

The sad part is the straight folks over in Uptown are starting to encroach on the gayborhood, where I live. So this type of stuff will eventually start happening over in my neck of the woods. For example, some fool opened up a straight bar down the street from me. Me and my friends went in, and were steadfastly ignored by the staff for about 20 minutes before we got the hint and left. Eventually, their tavern will be a good idea. Right now though, opening a straight bar in the middle of gay central doesn't seem really bright.

I don't think it'll be too many more years before this manages to push all the LGBT residents and businesses from here into Oak Cliff. (This process is well underway, and the city of Dallas is masterful at this type of gentrification.) It's kind of unfortunate, because I imagine the historical heart of the gay community here will eventually be gone. But hey, at least there'll be plenty more bank branches, Starbucks, and a whole slew of chain restaurants and chain retail stores.

[Eryn]

I use the phrase "Teenyboppers" but there are plenty of 20- and 30-something people who grew up with digital photography who have no sense of etiquette. The expense of film photography seemed to be a moderating influence on all but news and paparazzi photographers.

I tend to stick with mainstream venues and feel that going there decreases my chances of being made versus that of LGBT venues. People at LGBT venues, gawkers or not, tend to be more savvy and on the lookout for unusual people. I still get made, but people are less blatant about expressing it. I don't recall having anyone take my picture at a mainstream venue, but it has happened at "LGBT-friendly" venues.

[Persephone]

Pointing, giggling, and taking and posting photos is definitely rude and mocking.

Absolutely! Age does not always alter stupidity and poor behavior. Leo Buscaglia once said, "Some of us mature, some just grow taller."

I'm not sure what I would have done. On an intellectual level I totally believe that Eryn and Ineke are right, but I'm not sure I could react with the grace and ladylike behavior that they display.


Maybe they were slumming from Plano?... (This process is well underway, and the city of Dallas is masterful at this type of gentrification.) It's kind of unfortunate, because I imagine the historical heart of the gay community here will eventually be gone. But hey, at least there'll be plenty more bank branches, Starbucks, and a whole slew of chain restaurants and chain retail stores.

Hmmm, so now it's everyone else's fault? Since they were in this supposed gay enclave is it possible that they were simply rude lesbians? I'm sure that you know that some of "them" have no love for some of "us."

Let's see -- Plano, Dallas, Starbucks, lesbians, "them," "us" -- gee, there are quite a laundry list of people we can make into "others," class warfare at its very best.


Or, have the waittress bring them a couple of margaritas with your compliments :drink:
Ineke

Ineke, I definitely think that you and Eryn are on the right track.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[LaurenS]

Let's see -- Plano, Dallas, Starbucks, lesbians, "them," "us" -- gee, there are quite a laundry list of people we can make into "others," class warfare at its very best.

Ineke, I definitely think that you and Eryn are on the right track.
Persephone.

Enlightened as I think I am, I still have to kick my ass for labeling others when they label me. Stereotyping and bigotry are hard shackles to break free.

[kimdl93]

I've been very fortunate. No one has done anything that I noticed in over four years of being out in public. But then, maybe I just don't notice.

[I Am Paula]

Ironically, the only places I've met finger pointing, rude remarks, or scowling has been in gay bars, from the gay (mostly lesbian) clientele.

[Anne2345]

Some people tend to look, gawk, stare, point, or whatever no matter where I am or where I go. Being unusually tall, I tend to stick out anywhere and everywhere I go.

I used to really let this bother me. I mean, I just wanted to fade into the background under everybody's radar and be invisible.

It's impossible for me, though. I can't undo my physical presence. So what's my alternative? To not go out? To not be me? To not live my life? To sit it all out on the sidelines?

It took me a long time to grow thicker skin and become more confident in myself, but now that I have developed both, and continue to develop these things more and more everyday, I don't let other folk's crap get to me like I once did.

There are a lot of uneducated idiots and hateful, hurtful people out there. That's just a fact of life, and nothing any of us do or say is going to change this. So the way I see it now is that if I let them get to me, then that's on ME, not them. Because if I let them get to me, they win, and I lose.

Regardless, I have worked much, much too hard to get to this place in my life where I believe in myself and the potential of my future. The last thing I'm gonna do right now is allow some random moron strangers who I have never met and will never see again take any of that away from me.

But yeah, it can be hard, and it can really suck if you let it suck. It's really funny, though, how perspective can change. I wanted so much to be invisible before. I would've given anything for it. Now, I could really care less about being invisible. And by taking ownership of myself in this fashion, it is those others who have become invisible to me.

[typhoidmary]

I get people being rude to me all the time. I know england is nowhere near the worst place to be trans, or a CDer or even just effeminate, but the town I live in (andover) is not one of the more LGBT friendly places. The most common ones I get are middle aged men shouting things at me from their vans, and people, again generally men, talking loudly about me behind my back when I'm in town, usually pointing out that I'm a "bloke" (hate that word), and the laughter and jokes ensue because a man not looking like a man is the funniest thing ever or something.

Like, if I wanted people to think of me as a man, I wouldn't go around wearing heavy makeup and women's clothes. That's just common sense, not that I expect it out of most people. and yeah I guess it's pretty obvious where I came from being that I'm tall, flat chested and have big feet, not to mention my facial hair which sometimes is still visible, but it should be pretty obvious that if someone's taking lengths to hide masculine/feminine traits, then it's pretty rude to point said traits out. I can't stop people thinking these things but it's not hard to keep one's opinions to oneself.

[Michelle.M]

I don't know if I would call such incidents "aggressions," micro or not.

“Microagression” is the actual, legitimate term for this. It’s a term used in therapy, diversity training and in equality issues.

Don’t confuse your willingness to let a microagression slide with the legitimacy of the experience (or your perceived lack of that) and its impact on PaulaQ.


The only thing that really bothers me about it is that I won't bother talking to my family about it. They really don't believe stuff like this happens. I've tried telling them before. They don't get it. They try to explain it away, or deny it. That lack of understanding frustrates me way more than the event itself, at this point.

And that, my friend, is the worst part of this episode. If you can’t count on your support network, then - what? You probably ought to rely more heavily on those who know you and love you and who have your back. Perhaps your family will come around, but plan for the possibility that they won’t and find your strength elsewhere.

Just my 2 centavos.

[becky77]

Some people tend to look, gawk, stare, point, or whatever no matter where I am or where I go. Being unusually tall, I tend to stick out anywhere and everywhere I go.

I used to really let this bother me. I mean, I just wanted to fade into the background under everybody's radar and be invisible.

It's impossible for me, though. I can't undo my physical presence. So what's my alternative? To not go out? To not be me? To not live my life? To sit it all out on the sidelines?
It's really funny, though, how perspective can change. I wanted so much to be invisible before. I would've given anything for it. Now, I could really care less about being invisible. And by taking ownership of myself in this fashion, it is those others who have become invisible to me.


Anne how do you perceive yourself now you are at that place.
I want to just blend in with the other woman and never look back, however realistically I know this isn't the case. Sometimes I tell myself it's ok to be trans and nothing wrong with being different. But thats a small lie I tell myself as it hurts too much to admit I most likely will never be accepted as a true woman.
I really waver one to the other, one day feeling strong as a woman, another day a few odd stares and I question if i'm falling into delusion.
I know this will go once I am living fulltime and it becomes the norm. But the question is for those who are at that stage is it possible to feel a woman when there are so many reminders we are different, or does that difference manisfest in another way?
Is it possible to be proud of being trans and accepting you are different, while at the same time allowing your female identity to flourish?
Does my question make any sense?

[PaulaQ]

@Michelle M. - Thanks hon, you are absolutely right. I stopped looking to my family for support a while ago, and I look to friends I've made in the trans community.

@Persephone - I'm really not quite sure how you got the message you seem to have gotten from what I wrote, but OK, I guess. I don't really know what else to say.

Edit: I meant to mention that I ignore micro-aggressions. The great thing about being handicapped my entire life is I grew up with pretty constant exposure to micro aggressions for my whole life. So it all rolls off my back - I don't care what they think.

It really upset my friends though - this type of occurrence is a new thing to them.

[stefan37]

Your friends will need to develop thick skin if they are transitioning of plan to go dressed often. It gets worse before it gets better!!

[Lorileah]

somewhere in this world (the cyberworld) there are hundreds of photos of me and I have no idea how they are being used or labeled. I see people taking pictures of me all the time and I have built up this story about how they post to Youtube or twitter or pinterest with the captions "Pretty woman I saw today" or "Wow what a set of pipes this woman has" or "This is the kind of skirt I have been looking for." Maybe even a guy who posts "Does anyone know this beautiful woman and can I get her number".

I just cannot worry about photos now. If it did bother me I guess the correct reaction would be to ask the manager to move me to a new table away from them. If I did decide to encounter them maybe I would say "Please not pictures. My agent says I can't have that published before the movie comes out" Or "I have to ask you to not take pictures as you are compromising the investigation" and if I wanted to be really rude "Your husband has asked that you don't take pictures before he serves the divorce papers."

[Eryn]

“Microagression” is the actual, legitimate term for this. It’s a term used in therapy, diversity training and in equality issues.

I wasn't familiar with this bit of jargon. I did some reading on it and the breadth of application is considerable. For example, a woman deciding to pursue a career in nursing, a traditionally female profession, could be termed an act of microaggression as it serves to perpetuate a perceived inequity. A person can be labeled as microaggressive by the simple act of stating that he or she is unbiased!


Don’t confuse your willingness to let a microagression slide with the legitimacy of the experience (or your perceived lack of that) and its impact on PaulaQ.

What is the alternative? Should every perceived slight result in a scene of retribution? The fact is that there are rude and unthinking people among us and all the sensitivity training in the world won't change that. I don't want to see anyone go through life being controlled by their actions.

And what of the waitress in the OP's situation? She's the one who made Paula aware that she was being photographed. Is she being microaggressive by telling Paula of a situation that she knows would cause her distress and might possibly result in an ugly scene? One could speculate that she wanted to stir the pot and see what happened for her own entertainment!


And that, my friend, is the worst part of this episode. If you can’t count on your support network, then - what? You probably ought to rely more heavily on those who know you and love you and who have your back. Perhaps your family will come around, but plan for the possibility that they won’t and find your strength elsewhere.

Part of support is helping a person to decide which battles are worth fighting and which are not worth wasting one's emotional capital. Is it really worthwhile letting a microaggessor live rent-free in one's mind when they are better ignored and forgotten?

[Michelle.M]

Should every perceived slight result in a scene of retribution? The fact is that there are rude and unthinking people among us and all the sensitivity training in the world won't change that.

You make a good point in that we need to pick our battles. Of course we simply cannot throw down every time someone crosses us. There are many factors to consider, chief among them being personal safety. And if you do challenge the person, what is the reasonable outcome?

I have let some things slide because my actions would have either been dangerous, harmful, or would have had no effect. But that doesn’t make the microagression any better, it just means that someone had to back down and I decided that someone ought to be me. But I have also acted on some incidents with devastating results to the jerk who thought I was an easy target. It’s a case of pick and choose.

In my opinion, the default position isn’t “I shouldn’t act” with a justification for inaction, but rather “I should act” with a mitigating reason why you should change your mind. We ought to take acceptable risks for the sake of social justice. Just standing up for what is right might be your own little Rosa Parks moment that changes something for the better.

But in every case the decision is personal and situational. Be safe, but recognize discrimination for the evil that it is.

[PaulaQ]

The fact is that there are rude and unthinking people among us and all the sensitivity training in the world won't change that.

Well really the problem isn't one of rudeness or someone who isn't thinking. The problem is that many simply don't view us as being human beings. Rather we are objects to be feared or ridiculed.


And what of the waitress in the OP's situation? She's the one who made Paula aware that she was being photographed. Is she being microaggressive by telling Paula of a situation that she knows would cause her distress and might possibly result in an ugly scene? One could speculate that she wanted to stir the pot and see what happened for her own entertainment!

I don't really think that's the case. I'm a regular customer at this place, and I tip well. The waitress looked pretty concerned and kind of freaked out about it. My read was that she was worried about it. I don't think she was stirring the post. The little mostly concealed smirk was missing, for one thing. Anything's possible I guess.


Part of support is helping a person to decide which battles are worth fighting and which are not worth wasting one's emotional capital. Is it really worthwhile letting a microaggessor live rent-free in one's mind when they are better ignored and forgotten?

My family would simply spend the time trying to argue with me that the entire event never happened. Much as if I'd claimed I'd seen a UFO. I don't even bother talking to them about stuff like this - or increasingly, with anything related to my transition, because they tell me how easy it all is - just like they've seen on TV. That is, when they aren't uncomfortably silent about the whole matter. They weren't much help to me either, when I was a kid dealing with similar stuff because of my legs.

[LeaP]

I think that if I were in the joint in Mexico that I'd have a lot more to worry about than rudeness!

[Eryn]

...My family would simply spend the time trying to argue with me that the entire event never happened....

That's another issue, and one that is not easily addressed. They seem to be taking the easiest path, not one that is most helpful to you.

I won't try to argue that the event did not take place, but I will offer that it is probably not one worth addressing. If you had approached the offending women with some sort of rebuke they would be telling everyone about the "nasty tranny who accosted them." As it is, they took a picture that will be quickly forgotten as the next target comes into their sights.

In an *ideal* world, the waitress would have acted pro-actively by having her manager tell the offending women that their actions were not appropriate, but this is a tall expectation for a typical bar manager, even in a LGBT venue.

At times I've felt like I've been under scrutiny, such as a situation where young women look at me across the room then giggle among themselves. The bottom line is that I don't really have any idea of what they were giggling about. They might well be looking at my height, or my clothes, not my gender. If I notice them looking at me I will return their gaze and give them a nice smile. It's rather hard to think ill of someone who is outwardly friendly.

Oh, and older people also people-watch, but they hide it better. Can any of us say that we haven't looked at other people and commented about them among our friends?

[PaulaQ]

@Eryn - yep, my family tends to take the path of least resistance, and to avoid talking about hard stuff.

We didn't address the issue with the women - I stopped my friends because I just didn't see the point in creating a scene. In general, I don't say anything unless someone says something really rude and inappropriate to me first. I don't care that much when people do this stuff - like I said, I'm used to it.

I dislike it more when places refuse to serve me, because that usually takes longer to figure out, and just wastes my time.

[stefan37]

If restaurants are refusing you service. Maybe think about moving to a different states. I have never, ever been refused service at at any place I would be spending money. I know if I lived in an area where being accosted, ridiculed, running for my life, refused service is a weekly or daily event. I would most certainly do out a friendlier place to live.

[PaulaQ]

Must be a "photograph a tranny" contest going on this week, some jerkoff at the restaurant where we were eating was giggling and snapping photos of us. Not our week, apparently...

[mechamoose]

Pay attention to who you are trying to please and why. If some stranger has a problem with you, then *they* have a problem.. with YOU.

Their issue, not yours.

You don't *ever* have to apologize for who you are, and if someone expects that of you, stick a beautiful, sequined, 4" heel up their nose.

<3

- MM

[Rogina B]

Just ignore them about pictures...But refusing service is a different matter...

[Nicole Erin]

There will always be pricks. It is annoying to deal with them but you just kind of have to see it as an annoying part of life.

The ones taking photos -
They are probably the SAME ones who clog the web with photos of every single thing they see everyday. Photos of some trans person will get lost in the shuffle before they are done even uploading.

Incidents at Walmart - It is Walmart. It is the cesspool of the economic world. Last time I was at walmart, some big ol fat woman and some old lady were laughing and Miss Fatso said, "Now I have seen everything". That cow probably hasn't seen her own feet in years and she is entertained by a TG? Oh well, it is Walmart.

[arbon]

Must be a "photograph a tranny" contest going on this week, some jerkoff at the restaurant where we were eating was giggling and snapping photos of us. .

Again? Sorry this keeps happening to you.

Its been quite a while since I had the experience of people being so blatantly rude. I used to try and ignore it, but I am not so sure I would today. People don't intimidate me so much anymore.

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Theresa. Crap like this two days in a row is a new record for me. Just bad luck I suppose, or maybe the recent exposure of trans* in the media has made certain rather mean spirited people try to spot us for ridicule.

It really doesn't bother me, it bothers some of my friends more. Some people are just mean, and that's really all you can say about it. I only really worry about physical threats. Petty little things like microagressions aren't really worth that much worry.

I started this thread just because I was curious how often stuff like this happened to others here.

[Persephone]

Me and two of my trans friends went out for dinner at a local Mexican restaurant

Persephone's Law: In general, the obervation and attention of others will increase by the square of the number of CD/TG/TS people present; so two are four times as likely to be noticed, three are nine times as likely to be noticed, etc.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[PaulaQ]

@Persephone - I realize your law is pretty accurate, but to me, good times with friends I love is more important than stealth, even if it means we get harassed at times.

[becky77]

Nothing like that has happened to me yet, its bound to at some point.
I don't go to LGBT places or spend time with TG/TS/TV people generally, not sure if that makes a difference but going by the replies it seems that it does.

Next week I'm seeing a friend and she has some other friends coming along (all trans). We will be going to a restaurant so I will see if there is any extra attention, I highly suspect there will be.

[LaurenS]

Michelle.M,
Thanks, those are good points.

[Kali]

A few weeks back I was in a local town renown for it's arts and alterative lifestyle communities (New Hope, PA). As I walking back to my car after a fruitless hour trying to find the perfect anniversary gift for my wife, I notice a 20-something couple staring at me while I walk up the hill to the parking lot. The woman starts fumbling for her purse and pulls out her phone, and I say to myself, "she really wants a picture of me."

She sees me looking at her and immediately turns to take a picture of the blank wall next to her. Obviously a master of subtlety. As I reached them (they were walking the opposite direction from me) I almost turn to say something; there was a time when my reaction would have been fairly hostile, but I chose not to and just kept walking while she took pictures of my back.

I was telling my therapist that the next time this happens I may just confront the gawker and ask exactly what it is about me the find amusing, threatening, scary, funny, etc. Or just comment on their usually exceptionally poor fashion choices.

[Persephone]

@Persephone - I realize your law is pretty accurate, but to me, good times with friends I love is more important than stealth, even if it means we get harassed at times.

Yes! It doesn't stop me either! Enjoy your friends!

Hugs,
Persephone.

[PaulaQ]

Just to clarify a couple of things - the places where we've been harassed have not been LGBT friendly venues here in the 'hood where I live. Everyone here is really sweet.

The encounter in Uptown, which is really mostly straight folks, young professionals, kind of surprised us, because most of the people over there are really pretty cool. (Many of them hit the gay dance clubs too, because they are fun.) I feel I add local color there, and having someone like me show up who's queer as a pink three dollar bill with RuPaul's portrait on it gives 'em something to talk about and helps them justify the inflated rental prices they are paying.

The one yesterday was in Highland Park - which is an extremely conservative part of Dallas, on a par with Plano.

As long as nobody gets violent, it doesn't really bother me, but I feel bad for my friends. I guess they'll eventually get used to it.

Dallas as a whole is a fairly safe place to be trans, but there are just a few areas you have to avoid. If you are passing by a Baptist church large enough to be seen from earth orbit, you are probably not in a safe area. Likewise, a couple of the minority neighborhoods aren't safe either. But in fairness, they aren't safe for the people who live in them, either, unfortunately.

edit: I only mention the minority neighborhoods because one of my friends has this insane desire to try on a Quinceanera dress. Every time we pass a shop that sells these gowns, she wants to stop and try 'em on, and we have to convince her of two truisms:
1. They'll probably kill all of us.
2. There is no 15 year old Hispanic girl who's as big as my friend is. There's no way any of 'em will be her size, even were they to let her try one of them on.
This happens to us, a lot.

[sandra-leigh]

I don't know if I would call such incidents "aggressions," micro or not.

I on the other hand would not hesitate to call it a distinct aggression.

I can suggest a bunch of "What I would have done" (e.g., ask them to produce the Model Release Form required to take your picture), but I don't know what I would really have done in response. I have not had that kind of thing happen to me for a good six years now.

=====

I could say some good and bad things about Plano vs trans people, but it's really not my story to tell.