Uncomfortable

[mechamoose]

I have posted more then a few links on this. But I'm finding it particularly frustrating at the moment.

I'm a big furry dude who feels like a little bitty girl inside. I'm blessed in that my wife likes me playing the female role, as she is very much the "boy" in our 30 plus year relationship. She accepts me. She supports me. I like wearing frilies, and she *loves* that. It fits her counterpart male side vs mine perfectly.

So, in my daily life situation, I find I have to hide behind my fur. I'm in NFL ranges for body and weight, but I internally identify as a tiny thing with boobs & hips.

I'm never going to be one of you girls that can 'pull it off'... one who can wear a short skirt & heels and have it look *right*. The few trans events I have attended have been super cool, and just as isolating. I can't go to where you go. Sure, I'm 'accepted as a sister, but I don't *FIT*. 'Accepted' isn't the same as thing as 'one of us'.

I did a CD event a few months ago. I was accepted, but I was the subject of a ton of private whispers. "Look at that, she has a beard!" "It is just a guy in a dress." Sure, I hadn't worn forms. My 52" male chest filled out my dress quite well, thank you. I wore dangley earrings, eye shadow and mascara, sequined heels.. but nobody would have ever sen me as anything but male (which is disappointing, but understandable)

I'm a GIRL, dammit, trapped in a bull male body. I *like* my bull male body. It is strong and capable and can do all kinds of cool stuff. I still wish I was different inside.

Nobody came up to talk to me that whole night. I spent the night jamming to music and dancing with random T-girls who seemed to appreciate the attention. (Props to the sweetie who let me grab her by the hips and rock it out dancing!)

The acceptance (non rejection?) felt great, but I still felt like an outsider. I was a 'gurl', but not quite a 'girl'.

I'm FEMALE, inside dammit. I happen to live in a very masculine frame. A *nice* one. I really enjoy what it gives me. But it doesn't allow, even in the slightest, to wear anything from VS.

"Gender identification" is a (convenient) lie.

It has nothing to do with what your chromosomes say you are, It has nothing to do with roles or destiny. You are *YOU*.

Forgive me, I'm kind of hacked off at having to be 'deliberately' male for job interviews, (other threads) rather than being who I really feel that I am. I'm 6'2", 235#, 'V' shaped. That is my 'outside'. Inside, I'm a pear shaped thing with hips and a swish. I'm sad that it has NO connection to who I am ''inside'.

I'm a GIRL. Beard be damned.

(confused, frustrated, annoyed)

Thank you for all you do sisters!

(Gripe, moan, complain)

- MM

[Nadine Spirit]

Sorry Moose, that sucks.

I showed my wife a picture of some smokin hot woman today at lunch and said, the only time I ever even feel the slightest hint of wanting to transition is a ridiculous fantasy that I could look like something like that woman. She looked at the photo, laughed, and said "yeah, I'd look like her also if I could." We both laughed. Such is life I suppose.

[Sarah Doepner]

MM, this is probably the thing that most of us could agree on about our self perception. In fact, there are probably a lot of GG's who don't have the reflection in the mirror that they would prefer. So I guess the trick is finding that occasion, that set of conditions that allow us to celebrate that inner girl without feeling like we are something odd. It seems that you've done a great job of recognizing your feminine side and need to be congratulated for that, a lot of us fight that for years. Now it's time to work on the rest of it and try to find peace in the contadiction you find in the mirror. In the meantime and from here, you look like you are 5'2", barely 100 pounds and have great, smooth skin and features. I'm jealous.

[Candice Mae]

Hey Moose, There's nothing wrong with wanting to be who you are and I am happy for you to have accepted your inner/mental self. But you also have to accept your physical self, what limitations or problems you see also need to be accepted. Some can be changed to match your inner self, body hair, weight ect. Somethings can not be changed Height and hand/foot size that you just have to learn to live with.

And being 5'7'' and 130lbs is nice, but the grass really isn't that much greener on the other side of the fence. I really have to watch what I eat and exercise a lot to maintain where I'm at.

[Teresa]

MM I'm sorry being biased but I would dump the beard !!
My father was about your size unfortunately we didn't get on but I hated his beard because he hid his aggression behind it !

I think quite a few people have problems with beards, I know you don't want to pass but maybe your image is a little scary when the one inside is totally opposite and you want to show more of that !

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Hugs, Moose. And can I give you a little perspective? Most of society will see little difference between a crossdresser who is 5' 5 or 6' 5'. The only critic you need to confront is yourself. No, you're not a small, pretty little thing...but neither is most of the female population!

Embrace the body you've been given as it might very well be the only one you get. x

[Donnagirl]

MM

In reality we are all nothing more that men in dresses... All but the minutest few of us can actually 'pass', the rest, well if you don't look girly a little or don't look girly a lot, not looking like a girl is the common denominator. C'est la vie...

[Katey888]

Bless you MM - I do feel for you and others like you... :bighug:

Fate can be cruel the way it divvies out good and bad things in life - we all have a bit of a burden to shoulder and it seems unfair that someone like me can be satisfied with just a few hours of expression every so often but you need and would benefit from much more... It makes me wonder more deeply about what makes up the human personality and spirit and affirms my belief that we're a lot more than just a collection of water molecules and minerals... :thinking:

But - you have a great relationship; not all of us have that... You and your family have their health; again, not all of us have that... And you can express yourself out in the real world; not all of us get to do that... yet... ;)

So focus on the positives... and if it's any consolation, I'd dance with you and you could bump my hip - but no hands! :D

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Hi MM,

Sorry your are feeling down and frustrated and going to an event with fellow TGers only to be isolated well just saying . . . not cool :Angry3:. It is funny that while we CDers come is all shapes and sizes we are all just men in dresses and it is also amazing how some loose sight of that fact. IMHO there is no right way or wrong way to do what we do. Some can blend/pass in society some cannot but is it really about blending/passing or just being who you need to be to make you feel good? You have a lovely wife who accepts you for who you are and from what I have read, you have no issues being who you are to the world around you and that is a good thing :)

Feminine/Masculine is not defined by what a person wears, how good their make-up is, type of facial hair or body size. Feminine/masculine is a collection of qualities (e.g., kindness, strength, caring, daring) which all people (males and females) should aspire to in order to be a decent person. From what I read of you sweetie you are a caring husband and a good person and regardless of the fact you are NFL proportioned on the outside your inside is what defines you as the person you are and that person is good. You could be a CDer who passes without a worry but if you don't have the inside traits we should all aspire to . . . then you are just a jerk in pretty clothes and make-up.

Hugs

Isha

[JessMe]

Moose,
When you dress, who are you dressing for? When you dress for YOU, something nice happens... that swishy girl with the hips has a little bit of time to enjoy herself! As for the hushed whispers of the others, well, "haters gonna hate." (As an aside; I have never understood all of the judgement within the community.)
For the record, you and I are of very similar height, build, and weight. Though I am a bit smaller in the chest, and logic would dictate, larger around the middle. I have to accept certain limitations about my body, and make certain changes that I can make (I.e. exercise more, drink fewer sodas/beers, watch what I eat.) To make my body fit my expectations. As far as the beard goes; if ya like it, keep it! If ya don't, shave it. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to CD. Do what makes YOU happy.

[mechamoose]

Thanks all!

I know that I'm unusual in that I push gender boundaries in a different way that most here. I'm willing to go out in *obviously* cross-gendered clothing and presentation. I do have a serious issue with not being able to wear skirts day-to-day. Why should it matter? Why is it disruptive?

Not just 'non-traditional', but 'disruptive'.

Is it just because I live in the US and not the Middle-East or Asia? Really?

Is it so ingrained that a big person like me should be in big, heavy boots and a stained t-shirt, who doesn't give a damn about how they look?

I get that people are not used to it, but why should it make them *uncomfortable*? I'm just being ME.

Again, thanks to all of you for your kind words.

- MM

[CynthiaD]

I think your feelings of being isolated at CD events may be a problem of attitude. If you're waiting for others to make the first move, expecting to be the odd woman out, others can sense your attitude, and will tend to leave you alone. If you walk in like you own the place (you do, don't you?), say hi and wave to everyone, give lots of hugs, blow kisses, and insert yourself into conversations, your experience might be very different.

[Stacy M.]

MM, since you're looking for a job, you should really consider losing the beard, at least until you find a job. Or trim it extremely short. As big as you are, you may intimidate people in interviews. The beard adds to that. I work in IT also, and there are some beards, but not many.

Try a goatee, maybe. That will look eccentric... Perfect for IT. :)

[Rhonda Jean]

MM, I know this is going to come across as insensitive. I don't mean it as such. It's just perspective. Just as you gave us yours, here's mine.

Height and weight aside, the beard just comes across to me as "not trying at all". How hard is it, and what possible problem could it cause to just shave? I don't get it. It comes across to me as flaunting the "man in a dress" thing. Kinda like, "Yeah I'm a man in a dress! What are you going to do about it!". Maybe not the way you mean it, but the first impression would already me made.

I think we all appreciate effort. It takes a lot of effort for all of us. Some more than others, but it's not easy. About a year ago I saw a sister who was about your size in Walmart with a GG. She rocked the hell out of it! The hair, the nails, the makeup, and clothes that fit and made the very best of what she had. She was awesome!!

So, if you want to be accepted, try fitting in. That doesn't mean just putting on a dress and some blue eyeshadow. Start by shaving. Everything. Or at least everything that shows. I don't get what's the big deal about shaving. I do get the big deal if you don't. Find clothes that make you look like a woman. If you're dressing like that "tiny thing with boobs and hips" in your head, that's not going to ever work. Find clothes that fit! Learn how to do makeup. Not screwing around with whatever you bought on clearance. Buy foundation that matches your skin tone. Learn how to contour. Learn how to do your eyes. Don't just plaster on some color on your eyelids. Stay away from the bright red lipstick. Get your nails done by a pro. Get your brows done by a pro.

Maybe it's a little scary to try that hard. You know that no matter how hard you try you're never going to be that "tiny thing", but you can do a hell of a lot better than you're doing. I think for many of us it's a little scary to immerse ourselves in it. It's a little less scary to half-ass it. You can pretend you're just doing it as a joke. Put on your big girl panties and quit half-assing it. Own it!

[NicoleScott]

I'm with the "shave it off" folks. It's better to be a dude in a dress than a dude with a beard in a dress.

[Krisi]

I would guess that you wern't accepted at tge CD event because it appears you didn't even try to present female. Sure you wore a dress, but you wore a beard. You didn't wear breast forms and I suspect you didn't wear butt and hip padding. Did you shave or cover your arm and leg hair?

Do everything possible to look like a female and I think you'll do better next time.

[mechamoose]

MM, I know this is going to come across as insensitive. I don't mean it as such. It's just perspective. Just as you gave us yours, here's mine.

Height and weight aside, the beard just comes across to me as "not trying at all". How hard is it, and what possible problem could it cause to just shave? I don't get it. It comes across to me as flaunting the "man in a dress" thing. Kinda like, "Yeah I'm a man in a dress! What are you going to do about it!". Maybe not the way you mean it, but the first impression would already me made.

I dropped my beard twice. Once when I was in the USAF, and once while working for Monsanto.

"Conchita Wurst". You can rock a dress with fur and still be hot.

It isn't about 'trying', dear. It is about being who you ARE and not being sorry for it. I'm *never* going to be a convincing girl. 'Trying' is pointless.

It is about me being a human being who feels more female than male, who lives in a bull male body. It is about me being looked at funny for wearing a cami & skirt. It is about gender assumptions. Why should facial fur matter, hon?

GirlBeards (https://www.google.com/search?q=beard+girl&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=HRvqU_pOz4vIBJvVgpgH&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=632)

- MM

[Sara Jessica]

Stay away from the bright red lipstick.

But I like red lipstick sometimes!!! ;)

MM, I really enjoy reading your words here. Your perspective is truly unique. I also appreciate that you are willing to put yourself out there to share how you feel. This post in particular does so on many levels.

My opinion is going to pretty much align with what Rhonda said but with a caveat. You describe inner turmoil but I am reading more into the socialization angle.

It is easy enough to be the pretty little thing at home with your wife. You will be loved unconditionally rather than judged.

Stepping outside, alone or perhaps with your wife, she'll still love you for everything you are but some (many?) of the Muggles will find your presentation a bit jarring. They may let this be known to you or simply say things behind your back. Either way, I see your strength as being able to overcome such criticism.

Going into trans spaces with your presentation takes things to an entirely new level. You become an outlier in a community of outliers, most of whom either cannot or will not get their head around the furry bearded guy in a dress that they perceive. Sometimes those who are already marginalized can be the best marginalizers out there.

So then comes the question as to where said "CD events" are held. If you attended a gathering in a mainstream environment, the participants are likely trying to fit in as a group of women despite the reality that a gaggle of trans-women are likely to be read in a heartbeat. Your bearded presentation likely flies in the face of what many are trying to accomplish, hence the cold shoulder.

My opinion may not solve anything in the grand scheme of things but I hope it helps you feel better in some way. :hugs:

[Andy66]

Whoa, a whole lotta tough love going on here. MM, even if you dont agree with alot of these comments, its obvious that you are much loved here. :hugs:

I can relate, even if Im at the other end of the spectrum, so to speak. I like to think if I were genetically male I would be some sort of cool nerd, like a cross between James Bond and a chemistry professor. lol! In reality I look like a fat, middle aged mom. :facepalm: Thats not how I feel. But I have had short hair and hated the way it looked on me, cant seem to lose the weight either. It is what it is, as much as it does suck at times.

The cool thing about your build is that, in the business world, people who look like you, as long as they dress in a nice suit, have a career advantage because of the way others perceive them. Business is very much about others perception of you.

[mechamoose]

My opinion may not solve anything in the grand scheme of things but I hope it helps you feel better in some way. :hugs:

Thank you Sara. I know I'm an odd fish. I wish there were more like me here. (Frankly, I'm surprised that I'm so unique)

I want to *belong*, in the same way that you folks who are pretty do. I'm your sister, and I will use my fur and muscle to defend and protect you. I'm ashamed that 'civil' society has such a hard time finding a comfortable place for you/us.

The person who organized the TS/CD events I have gone to was psyched that I was there, and was able to 'let my hair down'. I tore my dress, mangled my sparkley heels, and had a WONDERFUL time.

I just want to fit in, you know?

- MM

[mechamoose]

The cool thing about your build is that, in the business world, people who look like you, as long as they dress in a nice suit have a career advantage because of the way others perceive them.

And that is wrong...

(squee!)

- MM

[Andy66]

Yes, it is wrong. Anybody with a soul and half a brain knows that, but these are corporate managers were talking about here.


(squee!)

Lol! Kitty hugs!

[Katey888]

Andy - can I carry that thought a bit further in defence of my fellow corporate managers... :) They're not all bad folk...

I think this goes full circle back to what society is accepting of... corporate managers have to be cognizant of who their managers will be interfacing with and the presentation of the individuals is one aspect. Rightly or wrongly, OTHER folk (clients, suppliers, partners, shareholders, employees etc.) are influenced by the nature of your organisation's presentation (viz: IBM 30+ years back and the white shirt, dark blue suit and tie uniform) and who you select for a role has to fit in... You may have a very liberal-minded individual in a selection role, but if they make the best choice of individual they will in all likelihood choose the one that fits with the image they expect the other stakeholders to accept... I've had to face this in a slightly more extreme way deciding who to send on support assignments to the Middle East - your best staff member may be female, but you don't send them on assignment to Saudi...

If broader society were more accepting, it would obviously be easier to be different... How great would it be in a world where you MM, could work in a skirt all the time, and I could decide some days blue suit and male; other days black skirt and female presentation... but oh, how that would royally mess with the muggles' minds... :eek:

That doesn't excuse other girls not being more hospitable... but society is what it is, conditioning and all...

Katey x

[DonnaT]

I do have a serious issue with not being able to wear skirts day-to-day. Why should it matter? Why is it disruptive?
Not just 'non-traditional', but 'disruptive'.

I've seen guys wearing skirts out and about. I've not seen any public disruption because of it. Most people just go about their business, others stare, and occasionally there are spoken comments. Depends on where you are at times too.

With your size, how many are going to accost you? Very few, I would assume.

[mechamoose]

f broader society were more accepting, it would obviously be easier to be different... How great would it be in a world where you MM, could work in a skirt all the time, and I could decide some days blue suit and male; other days black skirt and female presentation... but oh, how that would royally mess with the muggles' minds... :eek:


But that is kind of my point. Why are we so judged/ruled by Muggles? Where does that come from?

Who are you/we trying to please? Why should we be 'sorry' for being ourselves?

Sure, I can play a part... why aren't "they" interested in what I can do *beyond* that? My affinity for skirts and painted nails has *nothing* to do with my skills. I'm *awesome* in my field, Why should my choice of shoes/clothing have *ANYTHING* to do with that?

We should be free to be OURSELVES, honey. We shouldn't be penalized for it.

<3

- MM

[Andy66]

Katey, I was actually planning to edit my reply to add something similar to what you said. It really boils down to having an image that inspires customers to give you their money. Doing great work is the most important thing of course, but customers can be VERY critical and judgmental of everything, including what they feel your appearance should be. If you dont look the way they think an IT person should, they are likely to make a snap judgment and take their money elsewhere. Its not right at all, but its business.

[DonnaT]

Yes, we should be free to be ourselves. However, since the dawn of mankind, judging others has been a human characteristic.

Being thinking people, you'd think others would be reasonable, but history has proven otherwise.

There is no such thing as a perfect utopian society.

[PaulaQ]

Thank you Sara. I know I'm an odd fish. I wish there were more like me here. (Frankly, I'm surprised that I'm so unique)

I want to *belong*, in the same way that you folks who are pretty do. I'm your sister, and I will use my fur and muscle to defend and protect you. I'm ashamed that 'civil' society has such a hard time finding a comfortable place for you/us.


It's ironic, but so many of us who are gender variant are some of the staunchest defenders of the gender binary. We may cross the lines, but we are damn well certain that those lines exist! Perhaps it's because we so desperately need our bodies to conform to what our minds tell us we should be seeing. The pain from that makes us not understand others who don't suffer from the exact same discomfort. Or, perhaps we are all really conditioned to follow society's norms, with the exception of ourselves and others who look like us. If so, that's kinda short-sighted, if you ask me. (And rather judgmental.)

I do know that what you complain of is very real. One of my GF's (the butch), would have no problem with how you present. The other one (the femme), would totally freak out about it and not understand it at all.

Anyway hon, I'd talk to you at an event, and I'd hang with you. There's nothing wrong with being a big strong furry girl with a beard. Just not one thing. I love all the wondrous variations on gender that exist out there, and make us all so unique.

I may be just weird, but what I do, kind of automatically now, is when I look at one of us, I try to figure out who that person is on the inside, and then kind of see them that way when I look at them. Anyway, it's the stuff inside that I really care about.

[mechamoose]

Thank you, PaulaQ. May I buy you a drink?

I'd LOVE to hang out with you sweetie!

- MM

[MsVal]

Unfortunately there is a vast gulf between "Should be free.." and "Are free...".

On second thought, we ARE free to be ourselves. And so are 3 billion other people. They are free to accept or reject, to hire or not. So we certainly may be ourselves, accepting whatever benefits and disadvantages that may entail.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Tina_gm]

These are the cards you have been dealt in life, and unfortunately, you have been dealt the joker gender card. Most of us have in some sort, yours maybe moreso than others, but............................................... ...

You still have many great things going for you! Think you have it bad? I know a woman who lost her husand to alcoholism. A once great man who just lost it totally and she had to watch him for 5 years drink himself to death. I know another woman who lost her 18 year old son to a car accident. And he was truly a good kid. It was one of the hardest funerals I have ever attended. Imagine how she feels every time someone talks about how their son is going off to the military or off to college, or lands a good job, or whatever. Or they are now grand parents. She has to think, that would have been me, but no. There is a teenager who has Duchenne muscular dystrophy. The 1st 2 years of his life were normal. Then odd things were happening and pain began. By 6 he was using walkers and canes. By 10 in a wheelchair. Now today, every moment is pure agony. His mother is distraught and helpless, who would do anything to take her sons pain and misery away, including taking it on herself, because that is what most parents would gladly do if they could. the family is torn apart by this kid who will never reach adulthood and will suffer horrifically every day until he dies which is not much longer now.

I know this post is a bit different then the rest. And I am not making light of how you must feel inside. I feel a version of it myself at times. But I think of these things I mentioned and others I haven't, and realize things could be a lot worse, and I have no idea how those people get through what they do. They do though, and if they can than certainly I can.

[kimdl93]

I wish I had some brilliant advice or insights to share with you. I have some common perspective since I'm 6 foot 2 or a little more and presently weigh in at 230....and I'm not blessed with the most feminine facial features. I don't let it keep me housebound, however. And I really don't have any problems with the reactions of people around me. Maybe they're scared

[stefan37]

You can be of present anyway you want. The secret to wearing a skirt or makeup or nail polish is to own it. It may take a while to feel comfortable, but your comfort level is key to you being you. Be who you want, display confidence, own it and you will be accepted.

[devida]

i have been trying to think, moose, why I don't feel the way you do. I think it may be because I am perfectly content being my own gender. I really do mean my own gender. I do not consider myself to be male. I don't see a man when I look in the mirror. I also don't see a woman, or a man who wants to be a woman. I see someone who is quite happy being neither male nor female but free to adopt whatever he or she likes from either binary. It was a huge relief to me when I understood that I wasn't a man. It seemed like a great weight fell away. A lot of the conflict I had experienced with maleness throughout my life just vanished. I am enormously reluctant to pick up another weight, this one labelled female. I am afraid that I would end up just as uncomfortable and have just as much difficulty in synchronizing the way I looked and the way I felt.

I am very grateful to have discovered my real gender in a time when a vocabulary that describes people like me has been developed (by people like me). But I have no expectation of anyone else, that is anyone who is not non binary, whether cisgendered or trans, understanding this. Why would I? People are so complicated that almost everyone uses a binary gender shorthand, and that shorthand has only just begun to include mtf and ftm trans people, that is people who are still partcipating in the binaries of male and female, just not the genders they were assigned at birth. I would certainly like it if more people would understand that there are genders beyond the binaries of male and female but making this a requirement in my interactions with others would just make me shrill and unhappy. I will certainly educate people if that is what they want but I refuse to allow their lack of understanding to be a reason for my unhappiness. I recognize that most people have a great deal of difficulty thinking beyond the binaries. That is okay. It is complicated.

I abandoned my identification with the male gender because it was making me depressed, agressive, violent and anti social. I see no reason why would I find something else to make me unhappy. Trying to be perfectly feminine would probably make me as crazy as trying to be perfectly male made me. Demanding that other people accept me as I accept myself would also make me crazy. Most people can't accept themselves why would I get my panties in a twist because they don't know how to accept me? Why would I do that to myself? For the first time in my life the face in the mirror and the person I feel myself to be are the same. I plan on holding on to that experience as long as I can.

[visualkei]

Hey man, I think you have an angle there though. There are some women that are serious competitors in figure competitions and some of them get quite large on the outside. A lot of them feel like you in terms of being a little girl on one side of their personality. Some of those women have people whispering when people pass wondering if she's a woman or a man.
You gotta own it, man. How you feel can't always express itself on the outside physically.
It's the same for biological males and females trying hard just to represent their own gender.
I've seen some large drag queens pull off some pretty astonishing looks. And I know you're not going for that, but I think you can make do with what you've got and grow into it.

Also you might want to see if you can compromise with your lady. Beards grow back. XD

[susmitha]

Dear Mechamoose, I can understand your situation. But you are lucky in one way. Your wife is ready to be the "boy" in the relationship. My condition is opposite to your condition. I am only 5 feet tall (same as my wife) and 120 lb, about 5 or 6 lb more than my wife. I have a hairless body. During my childhood, when I crossdressed, my mother told me I looked more beautiful than my sisters. Even now, when I crossdress, nobody can make out that a male body is hiding inside the clothes. I do not like the male role in the bed room. I want my wife to dress as a man and make love to me assuming that I am the woman. She will not accept anything; she is not even ready to accept my crossdressing and she is not ready to dress as a man when only both of us are around. I know that she used to play male roles in college dramas. But she won't do it for me.

[KellyJameson]

My gender identity has always been a constant even when I refused to admit what that identity was and it existed independent of my body because it was learned by my relations as a child with boys and girls leaving me with a deep sense of what gender tribe I belonged to. My gender identity was created because of others and by others in relationship to how I experienced myself contrasted against them and it has always been this way.

I largely ignored gender roles until I could change my outward appearance to than more comfortably step into these roles and to eliminate the dissonace my body caused me by being "foreign to me" as "unnatural" and this was always felt at my deepest core.

You want to be sure your identity comes from some place other than gender roles because otherwise what you feel may be the desire to rebel against the constraints of gender roles but without the actual gender identity to support this rebellion.

Feeling like a little bitty girl inside could be the contrast between your physical form that limits how you want to express yourself but this may have nothing to do with actually identifying as a woman. Gender identity is formed in the first years of life and unless you have always felt conflicted than I would urge caution because you may simply be making yourself miserable by desiring something impossible to attain while also not being suitable to obtain it as that inner person you were born as that must now live with what you have created.

I have seen some transsexuals become socially isolated because they transitioned but could not lose the physical features associated with the male sex and they had the unmistakable air of a man around them so they become gross caricatures of something abnormal that people find repellant, so avoid.

Someone that needs to transition will transition regardless but they than must live with the consequences of the physical limits placed on them by the limits of medicine.

You can do whatever you want if you can live with the consequences.

Extreme gender dysphoria will take you to a place where you do not care about the consequences "at the time" but this comes with huge risk.

In my opinion no one should ever transition unless they have always, since their earliest memories, identified as opposite their body and than secondly the social roles we perform with these bodies.

It is very easy to destroy your life. Please be careful and be sure what you are suffering from really is gender dysphoria and not fantasy and the social limits imposed on everyone in one form or another.

Rebellion, fear and fantasy can be a toxic mix.

[Sara Jessica]

Andy - can I carry that thought a bit further in defence of my fellow corporate managers... :) They're not all bad folk...

Katey, you bring up some great points. This coming from a fellow corporate manager-type who has been bucking the trend for several years by way of my hair which has likely contributed to some career stagnation.


It's ironic, but so many of us who are gender variant are some of the staunchest defenders of the gender binary.

Sign me up, I've already admitted this. But let the record reflect that I too would also love to hang with MM at an event, should the opportunity ever arise.

One of my best friends is Sherry, she of the mask who is often misunderstood by many until they take a moment...a mere moment to get to know her. Like you, she may be an outlier in our community but this doesn't diminish how awesome she is. But as uncomfortable as it make her, she knows when to go without said mask and when to bring it out. That is kind of like your own presentation, MM. But unfortunately, growing face-fur isn't as easy as going without for certain situations and plopping it back on for others. Yours is a tricky situation I must say.

[natcrys]

Hey MM!

I always love your posts.. and I'm sorry to hear about experiences at some of those get-togethers. Perhaps some of the girls didn't know how to react or what to say to someone who expresses femininity in a non-binary-gender way.. or perhaps they were just straight-up stuck-up b****es!

If you love your beard, I'd say keep it.. society already tries to determine how we should act, dress, etc. We don't need that crap again in the world of crossdressing/transgenderism.

And I think I've said it way back in another thread.. you seem like a fun cool person, which is the only thing that matters.. if we're ever regionally close.. let's hang out! :)

[noeleena]

Hi,

M-M you know somit not so easy for some of us who are female, just its when your not born as fully - complete as most other females, and that allso brings with it other issues ,

I know some who will never accept just because im born different that im a female , you know my fail points to dam obvious as you look and others my photo, yes i get on well with those many who know me and they have accepted yet on first aproach what is seen a normal female doubt it hell no , or a male looking ..... what the hell is this, trying to figure me out,

a male dressed as a woman,,,,, even so for all that ill get accepted by inlarge by most people , And the funny side to this is im not a threat to the womens husbands as they know they would never look at me as a mate , come on theres gota be an up side to being odd,

the other part for me is i accepted my differences and live with it and yes i can laugh about it part of being weird if you like, or insane ether way , makes life Fun

...noeleena...

[Krisi]

You can be who you ARE and not be sorry for it, that's your right, but you shouldn't complain when others don't accept you. That's their right. If you want to be accepted by a group, you have to try to fit in with that group. That's pretty much how groups work.

[atlflygirl]

So, in my daily life situation, I find I have to hide behind my fur. I'm in NFL ranges for body and weight, but I internally identify as a tiny thing with boobs & hips.

I'm never going to be one of you girls that can 'pull it off'... one who can wear a short skirt & heels and have it look *right*.

- MM

Moose, I have many of the same issues you have. I love shaving my body, but the men in my world want a hairy guy. I want to shave my face, but my eyes tell me no, grow the beard out and don't worry about it. My beard seems to be a manifestation of my biological maleness as well as the subconscious desire to be attractive to gay men who want a man with rough masculine features. When I put on my makeup, my girl shirts and shoes or even my dress, I feel 100% better. I don't know why, I just accept it. I may never pass, but at this point, it is a luxury to have access to female clothing, makeup and perfume, and it feels right. Don't let anyone tell you that you have to shave to wear feminine clothing. Enjoy yourself for who you are and others will too.

[Tracii G]

Moose shave the body hair and beard then maybe you will feel better about yourself.
Don't worry about your body shape just dress to accentuate your positive attributes.
Like you I will always be the girl I am inside and will never really look like it on the outside.
Once I shed the facial hair a big part of my struggle was over.

[lexivanderpump]

MM,
If you like the beard, keep it. Now let's talk about the real issue here. The other "girls" seemed to have avoided you like the plague according to your account at the CD gatherings you have attended. Personally, I am very disappointed in those girls. Why? As I have mentioned in other posts, we girls seek "tolerance and possibly even acceptance" from others, yet some of us don't "practice what we preach." I will, however, tolerate those "girls" behavior, but I will not accept it.

Beard or no beard, they should have made an effort.

Love,
Lexi V.

[mechamoose]

Hi all, thank you for all the encouraging comments!! You girls are awesome!

My beard is a non-issue in my field. I keep it neat and trimmed and nobody blinks.

When I grew a pony-tail?? *SCANDAL!!*

I worked in IT for many years with a 2 foot+ rat-tail. It didn't get half the comments that the pony-tail did. :/

I want (and my wife wants) me to have long hair. I have had interviews go bad over long hair.

Beard? Not an issue. Honest.

/kisses

- MM

[sometimes_miss]

Dear Mechamoose, I can understand your situation. But you are lucky in one way. Your wife is ready to be the "boy" in the relationship.
^this. You need to learn to look at the glass being half full instead of half empty. You're in a situation about 95% of us would give our right arm for (alright, right nut after all we only need one, whatever can't be seen and wont' spoil the 'look' we so desparately want). In my defense, I'm bigger and taller than you are. Feet huge, 16. Don't even start me on hat or glove size. So what if you have five oclock shadow at 10 am. if you want to shuck the beard to enjoy a slightly smoother face you can do that, too.
Enjoy what you can in life. It's far too short to let frustration over what you can't have bother you; Enjoy what you do have. Now, there are vendors on ebay that will sew any style dress you want, in any style, in any size. All you need are good measurements, and it seems you have a mate who will accomodate that. Have some fun. Forget the rest. And don't worry about any GG's that don't want anything to do with you; most don't want anything to do with 90% of men out there, no matter what we dress like; women are real picky that way.

[Samantha_Smile]

I'll be frank with you here Mechamoose.
I think the reason your described appearance may rattle people, myself included, is that wearing a pretty dress with a beard and body hair is not the common trait, even amongst CD/TV/TG folk, you are an exception to the 'norm'.
We won't go into what's normal, but I feel safe in saying that most of us (Probably over 95%) are dressing with an idea of emulating girls/women.
So when a male who feels female to whatever extent, has a beard, body hair and overtly manly man appearance and chooses to wear attire designed for girls/women, it gives of the 'bearded lady' impression.
Bearded ladies aren't known for being extroverts, women who are plagued with facial/body hair opt to bleach, laser or electrocute that hair away. The ones who don't are often found in old school circus side shows.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with the above, but lets be honest, it is how society at large views women.
And while the hair may cause a limit to what you wear - its a limit you sorta need to obey, its one I have to obey. Its agreed with my Mrs that i cant shave my legs, but everything else is fair game, so bare legs are a huge no-no - Multiple layers of tights to hide the hair.
There are plenty of big 'gurls' here and around the web who do a great job of looking the business.

I get your frustration - I don't fit either at 7' tall in my heels, size 11 feet and a huge man-jaw and nose...

The question is - Do you want to fit? Or are you happy as you are?

[ThiHi]

Hi MM. One who rarely posts here, but your story touched me.

It is about the binary, isn't it? I'm small, apparently pretty feminine looking. Especially when my hair is longer I get 'Ma'amed" all the time, regardless of what I"m wearing. Not sure where I fit in either. I don't do make-up or forms. I wear women's pants almost exclusively, same with shoes, many tops as well. I have ventured out in skirts, but always out of town. I'm comfortable where I am, mostly. My wife accepts who I am as well, which s the greatest gift I've ever gotten in my life.

I feel for you. Your disconnect is greater than mine by a long shot, and like you, I've gotten the 'stink eye' more than once from people in the LGBTQ community for not conforming to what I'm supposed to be and how I'm supposed to look or act. Makes me shy away from so many activities, to be frank, as I just don't have the strength to overcome that 'look' most of the time.

No advice here, but I really LOVE how you love your body and your internal self, as much confusion and angst as it may be.

Much Love to you and Ms Moose.

[Robert]

Hi MM,

You are not the only one here that is a big, hairy guy who likes wearing feminine clothes. I'm 182cm and 90kgs, and was a body builder for 25 years. My shoulders and arms are massive and totally non-feminine. I also have a beard.

Further, I just have to look at delicate clothing items to totally trash them. I'm also totally crap at walking in heels.

I have no solution for you, just wanted to let you know that there are others here like you.

[Gardener]

I feel for you MM. I am tall, chunky, hairy all over, except the head ,and the beard I grew when I hospital I decided to keep. When I was young there were times when I felt I should have been a girl, or at least wanted to have been. Now I am content with what life dealt me but equally desirous of expressing my feminine feelings. I dress when I can and would like to do more so. My wife knows and is not happy but neithor has she left the relationship. She knows and I thinks understands my need for personal honesty. I feel quite comfy reading and occasionally contributing by posting but I guess I do feel a bit intimidated as so many of you, or those that post, have engineered and worked on an appearance that is so authentic. That some can live lives openly as women is way off the scale of my possibilities. So MM as many have said you are not alone although being alone is something I feel quite often. In fact in many ways on the spectrum you have a confidence tested by exposure that I may never have. So well done, feel good about yourself, your honesty, your complexity, you are special.

[Beverley Sims]

Moose,
I can see how it is for you, dress in private seems to be the best outlet, try to meet others in male mode, there is gratification in doing that as you can talk about each others activities without being busted.Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and why not engage in your own private fantasy.

Don't get too frustrated about it.

[flatlander_48]

It is what it is.

Sort of a semi-silly statement, but it does describe the reality. What we're talking about here is Life and how our Lives fit into the World. In all of our Lives, there are things that we are thankful for and things that we despise to the core. But the question is: How much of ourselves are we willing to invest in trying to change what we despise?

Further, I would not say do not try to change a source of aggravation. But, are you prepared to invest that energy in view of a wide range of possible outcomes? It becomes a question of what we are willing to sacrifice. While we can manage our own behaviors (hopefully!), the behavior of others is beyond our direct control. The reactions you might get if you present as you would like creates the distinct possibility that there will be consequences. Never mind your whizzing and moaning; are you prepared for the probable consequences?

That is the question that only you can answer.

[mechamoose]

Thanks Flatlander,

I *have* been living with the consequences of being 'off gender' for quite a while. I guess at the heart of it I'm bugged by the fact that it is SUCH a big deal.

I get that there is a lot of history/evolutionary things to how 'attraction' works, both positive & negative. If you don't like something, DON'T GO THERE. No need to belittle those who present something outside of what you personally LIKE.

You don't need to sacrifice anything to allow someone to be different than what you like.. there are so many other fish in the sea. Why does it generate such vitriol?

I think that a girl who presents like Ernest Borgnine should get a pass. If a person doesn't like that, then move along to someone who does!

- MM

[flatlander_48]

Yes, but you have to recognize that anything we do as crossdressers is outside of usually expected behavior as it is. What you're talking about is another layer on top of that.

You also have to think about possible reaction within our community. It would be not unlike the reaction to drag queens in pride marches. There are those who believe that drag queens present a negative image and that impacts the progress of the LGBT community at large. In both cases, the thought rubs me the wrong way, but we cannot ignore reality, or at least potential reality.

How our Lives fit into the World is a significant consideration, whether we like it or not.

And further, Passes are few and far between.