For those considering going out enfemme but wondering about the risks

[BillieAnneJean]

Almost all the time there are threads or posts about how someone wishes or wants to go out in public while enfemme. Frequently they discuss the fears, dangers, or why they haven't tried it yet. I have been having so much fun with this that I want to share the joy with others. I have taken quite a few CDers on their first OUTing. It is a thrill to do so. If I can help someone get past the threshold, help them get OUT, then that is what this thread is about.

I have been crossdressing for almost two years now. For most of you that is but a small portion compared to your experiences. I feel humble in my craft compared to the more experienced. From the very first time I dressed, I went OUT in public. So I don’t know CDing as anything but OUT Enfemme. It has always seemed for me the reason to dress. Like building a hot rod and taking it out of the garage, taking it to see how fast it will go, the natural thing to do for me. So for me, crossdressing has always been OUT enfemme. I have been OUT enfemme in Austin Texas, Cincinnati Ohio, LA California, Ann Arbor Michigan, Saugatuck Michigan, Douglas Michigan, Milwaukee Wisconsin, Grand Haven Michigan, and Grand Rapids Michigan. About once per week in Grand Rapids, Michigan. That is maybe over seventy five times so far but I am really not keeping track, I am just having FUN! Of all the places, Grand Rapids has consistently been the best. I see others are concerned about going OUT. Although I have been OUT a lot (for me anyway) I have had no bad experiences. One time a guy whispered to his buddy and he tore himself away from texting for a whole five seconds. Another time a guy propositioned me in a bar, asking me if I would let him tie me up in bondage. Let me see,,,,,,, I just met you and you want me to let myself become helpless with you??!?? No and more NO!!!!!!! Another time the fire truck tooted their horn and waved, but my mini skirt was kind of short that day, the lace tops may have been peeking out, and my heels were kind of the fv<k me look. A guy approached me on the street and propositioned me. A guy in a gay bar wanted to feel me up. No and NO! Unfortunately, probably not much different that the sad usual that real women have to face. On behalf of the male population, ladies, please accept my apology.


For well over a year The Grand Rapids Crossdresser Social Group has been going OUT enfemme in Grand Rapids. We are selective about where we go and when we go there, like real women must be, unfortunately. Thus far we have had no incidents that were a cause for concern. We have had panhandlers or beggars approach us twice in the parking lot next to Rumors nightclub but they moved on when we told them no. One night an obviously drunk guy was yelling from about a half block away, just before he all but fell down. Another night a guy was begging on Ionia outside McFadden’s nightclub. All were no different than what a real woman has to deal with from the lower forms of the male gender. Again, sorry ladies.

Otherwise the people have been overwhelmingly accepting. Like the Pizza Hut manager and staff near The Network. The staff at Vitales. The ladies at Mikes Liquidation. Many stores and many restaurants.

Some have been accepting, although appearing bored. Like at The Bob, MoJo's, Olive Garden.

The Grand Rapids metro population, thank them all. Maybe I gave them something to laugh about, wonder about, or talk about. But I was having FUN! And maybe so were they. Mostly they glance, smile, and have a private laugh. Perhaps thinking either “glad it isn’t me” or “danged I wish I was doing that”.

So our experiences have been not unlike what a real woman has to deal with in her every day life. This has been an eye opener for me. I have always made it a point to be polite, respectful, and helpful to women. One time I was next to a woman who was obviously concerned about some guys making a fuss. I whispered to her that I was going to escort her to her car. When we reached her car, she thanked me. I told her that I hoped, should my wife, sister, mother, daughter, aunt, be in the same situation, that someone would do the same for them. At the time I never would have guessed that it would be ME. Another time at a club in Chicago two hic guys were somewhat aggressive in their approach to two women who were sitting at a table near me. I could overhear the conversation. The two women jumped up and walked to my table, ploppong themselves on either side of me. I said that I knew why thery were there, why they came to sit with me, that I knew it didn’t mean anything, and that they were free to go when they wanted to with no obligation. They thanked me and told me what the guys had done. This was years before I started CDing.

My point is that we as crossdressers have about the same risk as a real woman if we control our risks. Not just appearing as a guy who threw on a dress and a wig certainly helps. Buy avoiding dark isolated places, avoiding places that are frequented by a mostly male crowd, avoiding groups of males, frequenting places with larger percentages of women, picking known safe places, all stack the deck in our favor. Behaving like real women, looking like women, taking the same precautions as real women, we have successfully enjoyed ourselves over the last year and a half, with all but complete safety. And we have had SUCH FUN!

So if you are wishing to try getting OUT enfemme, from my (limited) experiences, it is well worth it. Last Friday we took Tammie out for her first time. She was with a group of more experienced CDers and we took her to a known safe place. She had a great time. We had a great time as her mentors, protectors, and friends. Find a support group. It does not have to be a formal minutes and dues kind of group. Our Grand Rapids Crossdresser Social Group has no dues, no meeting minutes, no gavel, no meeting. We really are just getting together to gab, share help and advice, and enjoy each other’s company.

If you want to, find a way. It is SUCH FUN!!!!!!

BTW my Avatar is now of me sitting on a bench on a Friday right in downtown Grand Rapids. No one is paying any attention.

[Katey888]

Nice post Billie Anne... :)

Your philosophy is right for me... sadly your geography is not... :cry: (Grand Rapids is firmly on my bucket list!)

But it's all good advice and I and others in my position will take encouragement from that, I am sure.. :cheer:

Katey x

[BillieAnneJean]

Katey,
I have been to the UK many times. It would be a hoot to be Billie there some day and have a night out with someone from the UK.
So I have one bucket list item.

[Isabella Ross]

This is such a great post -- it's exactly the reason why I came here. The "stepping out for the first time" scenario that you describe is exactly what I will seek when my heels (modestly sized, of course) hit the pavement for the first time. Thank you.

[Jenniferathome]

Billie, I don't think your typical cross dresser is in fear of violence, rather, it is simple embarrassment. We do not go through what the average woman on the average day goes through. They are not embarrassed to be out. No one will giggle at a woman going out.

While dangerous situations IS something about which women must be more vigilant than men, violence against a cross dresser for being a cross dresser is such a remote possibility that it can reasonably be ignored. Just stay clear of dangerous areas.

Embarrassment, on the other hand, is a real possibility. Possible but unlikely. I think the message to all is the normals don't really care that we are out. It may be comical to some and abhorrent to a few but mostly, everyone goes about their lives. If you are dressed appropriately for the venue it is highly likely that an outing will be stress free and embarrassment free. Our greatest barriers are built in our own heads.

[Danitgirl1]

THIS! I like! <3

[Kylee-Blackstad]

Billie, I don't think your typical cross dresser is in fear of violence, rather, it is simple embarrassment. We do not go through what the average woman on the average day goes through. They are not embarrassed to be out. No one will giggle at a woman going out.

While dangerous situations IS something about which women must be more vigilant than men, violence against a cross dresser for being a cross dresser is such a remote possibility that it can reasonably be ignored. Just stay clear of dangerous areas.

I must wholeheartedly disagree with this. Our gender presentation is what is clearly visible to people. It is our sign of dress that signals to others of our apparent sex, which they see as being congruent. There is the same level of potential violence/threats for transgender people or those that experience a transgendered reality on a somewhat frequent basis as we do. Embarrassment when I go out isn't much on my mind, or for my partner who is transgendered. It is a fear of harassment or potential violence for being gender-variants both in terms of expression and identity.

Walking home the other evening two gentlemen around my age passed me on the bridge in my city. I heard them immediately turn around after they walked a good 10 feet behind. I hear them muttering nonsense about "man she's got good legs, is that a chick though?" Then one of them tried to get my attention rather innocently about it by saying "excuse me." I keep walking and turn my head around to say "can I help you with something, sir?" and the one guy irritated says "what you don't want to talk?" Then with the most gruff guy voice I could muster I sad "No." I heard a bunch of laughs and "****ing bitch" as they went the other way.

My partner's mom lectured me at great length about what I did. Though I'm sure I could have put a stiletto in each one's head had they jumped me, the possibility of saying the wrong thing where they guys wanted to pick a fight or follow me further is not far out there to consider.

Most of the women at clubs I dance with know I'm a CDer and are the only one's to compliment me in a sincere way. Most of the men either cat-call me or give me weird/disgusted glances.

My partner has been misgendered, harassed, and more or less ignored by her father simply because she has a dick. Which apparently women can't have either.

I've been given very strong glimpses as of late into my partner's reality and the realities of women. Before I hadn't a shit clue on any of it or will claim I now know (I don't). It's been extremely disheartening. So I'm quite taken aback that violence/harrasment against a gender variant for simply being a gender variant is something we can ignore and that it's all in our heads mostly. Sure the world is full of wonderful people who will go about their business, but it doesn't mean assholes don't exist either.

[CynthiaD]

Let me add my two cents to that. You know that peaceful, relaxed feeling you get when you're dressed? Going out is that same feeling times ten. Or a hundred. You just have to get over that little speed bump at the front door.

[BillieAnneJean]

Jenniferathome,
I do not believe that my post specifically said anything about violence. I re-read it. Even did a word search for "violence". No that was not what the post was about. If anything it was more about intimidation, getting hassled, and inconsiderate actions by others against women and CDers. Things that would leave a woman or CDer feeling violated and embarrassed.

The average woman is not likely to be embarrassed about being a woman. I don't think that was in my thread either. She might become embarrassed by someone else's inappropriate and inconsiderate interaction if she is dressed like a man, short hair, a fake package, breasts bound tight. But that was also not what my thread was about.

Since you brought up the subject of violence:
I do get feedback from women about the improper advances and impolite aggressive behavior of some men. They DO have to deal with that but it is embarrassing and humiliating, not violence. But totally unacceptable. Violence against women is rare (should be non existent!!!!!!!!!!!) but all you have to do is read the papers or go to CNN.com to see the violence against women. Violence against women is becoming a focus and needs to be stopped. Like some women, some CDers DO suffer violence, Atlanta, LA, Detroit, all within the last few months against someone dressing "inappropriately". I believe that there also was something that happened to a CDer or TS person in Pennsylvania and Florida in the last six months or so. I believe there was even a thread on this forum about a CDer or TS friend who was beat senseless, I believe in Florida. Yes it is rare, but it does happen. I wonder if you asked someone who was a victim, if they felt that we could reasonably ignore the risks. I choose to be proactive about the risks, even the risk of embarrassment. But violence wasn't what my thread was about anyway.

And I absolutely disagree with you that "violence against a cross dresser for being a cross dresser is such a remote possibility that it can reasonably be ignored". Even flying commercial air carrier is safer than driving a car but we do put on our seatbelts just in case. Yes the danger is very remote but I always use due diligence. In order to have a good CDing experience every time, using caution and diligence is essential. Just ignoring danger or embarrassment is foolish. But following the safety practices that any real woman would use is about all we have to do to be safe. Like have your keys ready, park in a well lit not isolated place, do not walk down a dark alley, avoid venues that cater all but exclusively to young males, go out with a friend. Not excessive but almost intuitive. Ignoring any danger is foolish, even if ignoring it is reasonable. That does not mean we have to focus on it. But taking appropriate measures for self preservation is HIGHLY favorable to ignoring anything, even embarrassment.

Perhaps you were trying to be encouraging to those who hope to one day venture OUT enfemme. Perhaps advice to ignore the source of any danger or embarrassment is unwise.

So I and our local CDer social group will continue to use good judgment, avoiding places where embarrassment and yes, potential violence (however remote it may be) is more likely. But then that may be why we have had so many good times and no times where we were embarrassed, no times where we were afraid, no times where we were unsafe.

Keeping it SUCH FUN!!!

[LeslieSD]

BillieAnneJean, that is great and inspiring. Thank you.

[Ricki Dove]

I enjoyed reading your article on getting out in public as a cross dresser. I am new at this ( less than two months ) My concerns are how do you go to the bathroom in a public place? Men's or women's room? What happens it a policemen stops you while you are driving and sees your male name and picture on your drivers license? I appreciate you, Ricki Dove

[Amanda L.]

Thanks for the post BAJ
You write with such passion and conviction. I have gleaned much from this. I also subscribe to Jennifer's point about our fear of embarrassment , perhaps this is why so many girls post pictures and ask if they will pass.
I have been out late at night on my own and all I can say is who needs to jump out of a plane to get an adrenaline rush. It was so fearfully intoxicating. I am planning on more adventurous outings and already have the anticipatory butterflies in frenzy. I am not so much concerned about passing, I don't think people will take that much notice unless I draw attention to myself.
So onwards and upwards. In the words of Doris Day " whatever wil be, will be"
Amanda

[BillieAnneJean]

Ricki,
To go to the can you first have to go in the little room. Find a stall, enter it, close the door, and latch it. Hang your purse on the hook on the door or loop it over the corner of the door. WITH YOUR BACKSIDE to the ceramic bowl, lift up your skirt hem. You must gather your skirt around to your front and hold it with one arm. You will need both hands soon so you have to manage to keep the skirt from falling in the bowl with one arm. Then fish around in the umpteen layers at your crotch and pull those layers down with one hand while NOT clawing the device. Find the device. Using your false fingernails, CAREFULLY extract the device. OMG be CAREFUL when you do that!!!!!! Sit DOWN. Knees do not have to be together but feet should be. Relax but not so the flow is unladylike. When empty, use a small piece of paper to dab, and toss it in the bowl. Stand up. VERY CAREFULLY pull the crotch layers out. Insert the device back under the layers. Attempt to re-distribute the crotch layers over the device without any damage. Do not let out any deep howl when the device is inevitably injured by the fingernails. Smooth your skirt down, and flush. Open the stall door. Get your purse. Walk to the sink like ya own the place. Daintily wash your hands and dry them ON A TOWEL or UNDER THE DRYER. Do NOT just wipe them on your thighs. The open your purse. Dab a little lipstick on. Put it back in your purse. Readjust your clothes. Pat your hands over your hair. Brush if remotely needed. Rotate your body to see if your blouse is properly tucked in all the way around, if applicable. Then exit the little room like it was an every day occurrence.

WHAT!?!? You thought that using a women's toilet was dangerous? They all have stalls right? Pulling the device out and getting it back in place with false nails on is the real danger here, GF. BUT WHEN YOU DO GO, MAKE SURE THAT YOUR CELL PHONE/CAMERA IS TURNED ALL THE WAY OFF BEFORE YOU GO IN. IF YOU HAVE A REGULAR CAMERA, PULL THE BATTERY OUT BEFORE YOU GO IN. An unreasonable measure, sure, but that way NO ONE can say you were in there taking pictures. And do not dilly dally in front of busy stalls. Do NOT look through the open spaces between the door and the panels. Better to look slightly up as you try the doors. You are better off to not make eye contact with anyone in a stall.

For the first few times you go out, even as a general rule, you will learn how to manage your urges. You will find places with one holer toilets. Places with "Family" toilets, the kind with one toilet and a lockable door.

As for interactions with law enforcement, the officer will likely have seen far more ridiculous attire than anything you can come up with. Be polite, smile, comply with everything the officer requests. "Yes officer." "No officer." It may very well be the first respect that officer had all day. Better to observe every traffic law you can think of. But if you get stopped, don't worry. Unless you live in Podunk and the local jailer is a known CDer molester.

For the risks, using due diligence, using one holer cans, you will have a great time with little risk. Unless you live in Podunk. Better yet, go OUT with another more experienced girl or even better, a group of more experienced girls.

Keeping it SUCH FUN!!!!!

[Ondine]

BillieAnneJean, thanks for this. I've been thinking along similar lines lately.

After a long period of only going out en femme at night, I spent an entire day--about eight hours--out and about last week. It was great: I went shopping, walked through a park, went to Starbucks, a movie, a restaurant...and nothing happened at all. I was dressed appropriately for the weather and time, and had no difficulty blending.

Did anyone clock me? Sure. A helpful SA at a department store while I was looking at dresses, my server at dinner, an older guy on the street, a kid in the park. Did anything untoward happen? Nope. Everyone I interacted with was friendly and polite. The whole experience was an incredibly happy one, and it has totally muted my fear of going out in the daytime. I spent much of the day enjoying the feeling of the sun and the breeze on my (SPF-45 covered) arms and legs thinking: "OMG, this is EASY. I should have done this sooner." The idea that I no longer have to limit myself to just going out to bars and clubs in the dead of night is so liberating that it's almost unbelievable.

So, anyway, yes: be careful and smart when you go out. But there is so much less to be fearful about than you think!

[BillieAnneJean]

Oh PLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
Someone that looks as good as Amanda L. is even thinking about whether or not she passes????!!!!!
If an old goat like me can pass, honey, you can!
Geeeezzzzzeeee!

No need to read any further than Ondine's post. She sums all of it up in such a few words. Makes me feel like a blabber.

I am doing this and writing this trying to help others find the FUN that I have found. Oh sure I know this is not for everyone. But it sure is:

SUCH FUN!

[Ondine]

You're too modest, BillieAnneJean, and not a blabber in the slightest. And I agree with you completely about the perils of false nails.

[Renee Elise]

Billie, this is an inspiring post! I've been warming up to the idea more and more...just need to overcome those internal barriers and do it at my own pace...the thought is both thrilling, intoxicating, and scary all at once!

Crazy, compared to some of the stuff I've been through that appearing in public en femme should arise so much fear...ah well. Beautiful post and thanks for relaying so much practical advice and experience to us!

Xoxo,
Renee

[Rose]

Those outings sound like a lot of fun. I'm glad you have had a mostly positive experience. I look forward to being able to go out someday, but I'm definitely not ready for that yet.

[visualkei]

The only thing I'm afraid of or apprehensive about when I go out is if I'm alone at any time really. I live in Los Angeles, and while a lot of people are used to seeing "freaks" out here, any stretch of 50 feet walking can present a problem with asshole men.

Luckily my three closest friends don't think anything of my crossdressing so I go out with them. Of the 5 times I've gone "OUT", 2 of the times I've been harassed with more persistence than was comfortable.

So my advice = Don't go "OUT" alone until you know the lay of the land. Find out where it's safe to go. You can test the water by going out with friends dressed up.
Last tip, but this is only applicable to how you choose to carry yourself when dressed, use your normal voice. It helps if you even have a 10% passing rate.

[KaceyR]

And I agree with you completely about the perils of false nails.

Or any longer nails (I let mine grow out a bit more than 'manly' :) - this one time I needed to adjust my gaff while in the loo....yeowtch! :D Actually left a mark for a few days :)
Other than that, good post. I've seen GR to be a great place for a lot of things. Been too long since I've been over there.

[Pink Susan]

Let me add my two cents to that. You know that peaceful, relaxed feeling you get when you're dressed? Going out is that same feeling times ten. Or a hundred. You just have to get over that little speed bump at the front door.

You are so right Cynthia

I am going out dressed tonight , the heartbeat races faster (even though I've done it for many years now) nerves jangling , all that ..but once you're out and about the feeling is just sublime

[jjjjohanne]

From my experience, the fear is not violence (when I am out in public in stores, etc. during the day). My fear is being seen the first time by someone. Once they have seen me and know what is going on, they get over it and so do I. But that first sight and the realization... that is what seems to be tough for me.

[BillieAnneJean]

Pink Susan, using no words at all, very clearly illustrates the one true source of embarrassment for all women and CDers. I again feel so inadequate in blithering on.
It is her avatar.

Having SUCH FUN!

[Claire Cook]

BAJ, You've summarized what many of us feel about being out and about and why we do it. Your posts in this thread indeed are encouraging and inspiring. As to unwanted attention and situations, I avoid them whenever possible. There is much more for us to enjoy in the world than clubs and bars, at least for moi.

[MelanieAnne]

My absolute favorite place for going out dressed is Key West. The mayor and police chief are both gay. Nobody cares what you do! Tourists expect to see crossdressers. And just Google "Fantasy Fest" to see what goes on in Key West. The only dresses some women wear are body painted on! :D

[lexivanderpump]

Well the closest i have come to going out all dolled up is my front patio at night. Was dressed "to the nines" but i am not brave enough to go further than that.

[StaceyJane]

Yes, going out is so much fun. I have met so many here who are scared but taking that first step out the door opens up a whole new world.

[Sophie Yang]

BillieAnneJean,

My wife and I had a good laugh to your response to Ricki in post #13.

[Samantha_Smile]

Great post.
Although your capitalization of 'OUT' was jarring, made it difficult to read in my head. Maybe I'm just soft headed

[Clodagh]

I find that every time I go out it gets easier.I started by going to secluded areas, but realised that you actually draw more attention if you are seen dressed up in a place nobody expects to see a woman in a shortish skirt. Of course in hindsight the first few times I went out my limited wardrobe meant I was dressed like a cheap hooker, which resulted in cars driving by slowly to get a better look.

Now I usually go wandering around the streets at night, call to a supermarket, go to the ATM, etc. I generally wear flat shoes, so that I do not appear unduly tall, a dress, a jacket and dark tights. I don't get any strange looks and it has even got a little boring.

[jjjjohanne]

At first, I too would sneak out at night and go where few people were. That is very risky. I was acting like I was up to no good and went where other people who were up to no good would go. A safe place to go is a grocery store. Well lit and crowded. That is very scary to a newly out crossdresser. An even safer place to go is most places during the daytime. The problem is that people will see you. But that's OK. ...as long as they aren't anyone you know. :)