Women relating to women vs. to men

[Dianne S]

Yesterday, I went out as Dianne to a mall with a trans friend of mine, and later on met another trans friend for coffee. I think it was one of my more successful outings because everyone referred to us as "ladies". But anyway...

One thing I found was that female sales clerks and waitresses were far more friendly and talkative to me than they ever would have been had I been in guy mode. They were really friendly and chatty. Has anyone else noticed that? I wonder if women are less threatened by other women than by men and are more likely to chat to strangers? Whatever it is, I felt happy and privileged to be part of that world. (Now I sound like Disney's Little Mermaid... :))

[CynthiaD]

Absolutely true. On virtually all my outings I've found the female clerks to be much more friendly and chatty. It only makes sense. If they acted that way with men, there's a good chance it would be taken the wrong way. Women are safe, so they can relax and be themselves. It works the other way too. You can strike up a conversation with a female clerk, and have a nice friendly chat without them suspecting ulterior motives.

Male clerks react differently too. They're much more cordial and gentlemanly, instead of being abrupt and macho.

I absolutely love being part of that world. I feel like I can relax and be myself. In male mode, I constantly have to worry about whether I'm acting in an appropriately manly fashion.

[Katey888]

I'm sure that GGs and trans* presenting as women are perhaps more approachable and less threatening than men... yes.

I suspect the bigger reason may be that women (including trans* women) are more likely to buy and spend more and probably tip better... :)

Call me a cynic, but the world pretty much revolves around peoples' self-interest - however, when those things and your own objectives align, then that is a happy place to be... :D

Katey x

[Dianne S]

I suspect the bigger reason may be that women (including trans* women) are more likely to buy and spend more and probably tip better... :)

Yes, could be. Although I'm trans, I'm not much of a shopper. My friend went to some high-end stores and I'm a thrift-store kind of gal, so she spent about $100 and I spent nothing. However, I did take her to a shoe store where she got a bargain. I told her she needs to come shopping with me to save money. :)

[Nadya]

Could that also be a reflection of your own happiness showing? Happy people are easier to talk to. :)

[Kate Simmons]

I find that when I'm en femme I seem to automatically be more of a people person, more approachable and talkative. Perhaps by dressing we unintentionally strip away the facade that men are supposed to be intimidating and aloof and when some women see a CDer, they feel less threatened from the fact that we humbled ourselves to do that.:)

[bridget thronton]

Most of my virtual world friends are female and we form a pretty tight support group for one another and generally enjoy simply chatting with each other while we build things or just relax

[ReineD]

I wonder if women are less threatened by other women than by men and are more likely to chat to strangers?

I often hear on this board, the idea that (some?) women feel threatened by men. I can't speak for everyone, of course, but I do know that neither I nor my female friends feel threatened by males. I've actually asked them. lol

I was also a SA as a very young woman years ago, and I can tell you why I didn't chat up the men who came into the store: they just wanted to buy the clothes (gifts for wives, etc), and get out of there. They felt uncomfortable and they weren't interested in chit-chat. I would have chatted with them just like anyone else, had they wanted to take the time to do this.

My impression is that we women will be friendly to anyone who reciprocates, whether they are male or female. I've often been in line waiting, or sat at an airport gate, and chatted with people next to me of all ages. It didn't matter if they were males or females, there's always something to talk about.

So I think this is more about you than about them. You want to be chatty, and they are happy to oblige. :)

[Leslie Langford]

I don't think that "fear" is the appropriate concept here, except in extreme cases - such as perhaps when a woman is walking alone through a dimly lit parking lot late at night and sees a strange male approaching. That's when the "fight or flight" adrenalin rush sets in as a subconscious defensive reaction.

No, I think the proper term to use within the context of the original question is "sexual tension"...the kind of sexual tension that will always exist between the opposite sexes because we are programmed that way. Biology 101, and it is imprinted in our DNA that way...survival of the species and all that.

I think that if we are honest with ourselves, we will find that whenever we interact with the opposite sex, on some subconscious level - even if we are not attracted to the person in the conventional sense - something inside of us compels us to be on our best behavior and to try to put on the best possible impression since fundamentally, all of us want to feel liked, worthy, and attractive to them. The real fear here, if any, would be the fear of rejection and the resultant shame and embarrassment. You know, like the old song says: "You're Nobody Until Somebody Loves You".

Of course, in extreme cases of misogyny and misandry, the exact opposite phenomenon takes place, and it is dislike (or hate) at first sight, but that's the exception. I am also commenting here within the framework of typical heterosexual relationships...lack of experience within the greater LGBT domain precludes me from extrapolating how this plays out for gay, lesbian, bi-, or transsexual individuals.

This is one of the reasons why I enjoy going out en femme as much as I do...the ability to relate to other women on the same level and as people without all that sexual tension B.S. getting in the way. That, and without falling into the trap of objectifying them subconsciously the way my male brain - part of which Nature has decided should reside in my nether regions - is sometimes biologically programmed to do...

[Richelle]

I agree with Riene on this. I think it is more on us. For me, I seem to be more open to having conversations and making friends when out as Richelle. So all the SA and staff at the hotels are more willing to talk about personal items with me when enfem.

Richelle

[susan54]

I tend to go to the same small shops over and over again, but more often dressed now than in the past. Only one owner treats me differently - she is significantly nicer and smiley when I am dressed as a woman. I asked her about this and she said she felt far more comfortable when I am dressed as a woman (she is in her 30s, married with children). Out and about in the real world it varies but you get couples where the man engages you in conversation (without ever rererring to your gender) while his wife ignores you and other times women seem to want to chat about cross-dressing.

[noeleena]

Hi,

okay a little different over here or down under ,

In the main we are more open towards each other , and we can talk about any subject ,

Now that changes when a male comes in to our circle you see we talk about very sensitve matters . yes of cause we can talk about cars or work or did we have a nice week end just normal chit chat , when the male or males go we go back to ...our ...talk , many males lack that senitivity ,

at our Museum we have our commitee meetings 10 of us most of us are women three of us out side of commitee were talking about one of us had a breast removed due to cancer, and was meant to be having breast surgery some months ago and was put off till last week and has had it now,

so while we were talking a male comes over , now would he be interested in our talking and would know what its like no of cause not so we just change subject till he goes,

For us this is a very sensitive matter i know whats its like iv had breast surgerys , so we understand each other. really this is womens talk .

I know i would not be talking to males you know its very private and just to close to home ,

Now that does not say we dont invite men into our talk its just some subjects are ours alone

Are we chatt,e in the main yes and it depends on theres lots we have in common we dont have with men ,

Dont get me wrong i talk with a lot of men concerning work and just normal day to day detail ,

Okay the thought has just come to me a ? for you , would you and i have things in common or would we relate to / with each other .

Such as Im a Brass Band member and at a dinner we 4 of us and 4 others sat at our table and chatted the two i talked with were not members even so we talked a little about music and other detail s now the others it was all band related ,

And at the end i said Band members should ...NOT.. sit at the same table because it will allways revolve around bands and music,,,,,,,oh , 4 of us were women .

This is of cause another difference between men and women .

you look at your self truth here, how talkitive are you as a person , as a male and dressed like a woman . and see if you can see those difference,s im not saying youll understand us , just it may give you some idear .

When your with other dresser,s what do you talk about , and then say your with us there will be subjects or chit chat you would not be a part of because your not a female ,

Its like put me with a group of men and trust me i have many times and that covers dressers, i feel out of place i dont relate to or with men as men do , though i get on quite well with in my fields of work and the like, what im saying is wheres that common ground,

...noeleena...

[Princess Chantal]

I do notice that people, most generally women, do become more chattier when I am all prettied up. Even more so when I am attired in my Victorian era dresses.

[mariehart]

I remember once in my old office job, standing chatting with the (other) girls, instead of working. The usual gossipy talk. Then one of the other guys appeared and the tone of the conversation changed abruptly. He then left and the conversation returned to normal. I realised something at that moment. I was one of the girls. Yet I never explicitly came out to them.

But I also realised that women relate differently to other women or men they perceive as effeminate like a gay man which I later found is what they believed I was. Men of course also relate to each other differently when no women are there.

This was confirmed for me later again and again.

So yes female SAs treat female customers differently and it's not fear of men or greed. It's just normal.

It's something I miss actually. I find men's company excruciating but since I married I have little contact with women other than my wife or her sisters and the dynamic with them is not conducive to intimate conversation.

Very frustrating.

[Marcelle]

To be honest I don't really notice a difference. If I interact with people (males or females) "en boy" they normally reciprocate with friendly conversation much the same way they do when I am "en femme". Now women SAs I have met while I was "en femme" are more likely to compliment my choice of clothing, nail polish, hair etc than if I were a guy but that is because they are most likely looking to be kind to the dude dressed like a lady. However, the actual conversation regardless of which gender I am presenting is congenial.

Hugs

Isha

[Ms Deidre]

As a waitress I can tell you I will generally chat up whatever patron I have, obviously hoping for a better tip. While I and other waitresses will "flirt" with the guys, especially the regulars, it is more guarded. Conversations amongst women, even those crossdressed obviously or otherwise, is a more laid back an open exchange. We have had "girls" come into the restaurant where I work although I have never waited on them personally, not by choice just a matter of they were seated in someone else's section. They have always been treated with respect and dignity as far as I have seen. If one of them should ask where the restroom is we always direct them to the ladies room. How friendly your waitress is generally a reflection of how you are with her.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Dianne, They are more in their comfort zone talking to the ladies.

[Dianne S]

I do know that neither I nor my female friends feel threatened by males

You are probably right. "Threatened" was the wrong word. I think maybe it's more along the lines of not wanting to be misunderstood. If a woman is very friendly to a man, there's always a chance the man could misinterpret it as romantic interest, whereas that's less likely with another woman.

I don't think it's me. :) I'm still somewhat nervous when out en femme and tend to be even less talkative than in male mode until someone else gets the ball rolling. Then I calm down and open up.

[bridget thronton]

I have been watching the annual debate of the exclusion on tg/ts folks from the womyn's music festival and "threatened" by us seems to be a theme. I do like Reine's explanation of reciprocating chattiness in most situations.

[Lorileah]

You are an oddity also, so many will "chat you up" just to get to know you.

[sometimes_miss]

It didn't matter if they were males or females, there's always something to talk about.
This is normal female behavior. Women will chat endlessly, perhaps all day. It's how they bond with others. Men, on the other hand, speak for a particular reason, with a goal in mind, either stating an opinion or problem solving, and when they speak with women, that reason is about 99% going to be about trying to get to have sex with them. Hence, why a lot of women don't always want to continue conversations with guys once it's clear what the guy is talking to them for. Indeed, in the past decade or so, there has been a tremendous increase in the number of men who have taken special pick up courses where they learn language tricks in order to subtly manipulate women into having sex with them.....especially, because these tricks often work surprisingly well when used on unsuspecting women. So I think it's pretty natural for women to be cautious whenever a man unknown to them spontaneously starts up what seems like a friendly conversation, for no particular reason, because they know that a man doesn't usually do that.....unless he wants sex.

[suchacutie]

I must admit that my attempts to be "Tina-chatty" with SAs when I'm in male mode are generally failures (except in SF where everyone seems to be chatty!). I do think Reine is correct but would add that since SAs expect not to find men chatty they also just don't think to reciprocate.