Bit of a rant about stepping back !

[Teresa]

I've managed three occasions to talk to my wife and thought we were moving forward, she knows where my stuff is but as far as I'm aware hasn't had a look, she obviously knows about my dressing and why I do it, and she knows I shave my legs.

So today I collected the post and made a coffee and we both sat in the garden to sort the post. The large box contained some new work boots, I said that's great they've come, the old ones were getting uncomfortable. She said , "I hope they haven't got heels on ! " I replied with a smile, " Well they could have, would you mind ? " " They ****** well better not have ! " she replied . I asked, " What's your objection ? " She turned and said, " You don't need them, they're not necessary !! "

I just felt I'd taken two steps back in my steel capped work boots ! Progress ! What progress ? I'm just going round in ever decreasing circles!!!

[Barbara Ella]

Teresa,

Yes, it really seems like that at times. But then, out of the blue there will be a positive ray of sunshine. My wive went full circle about 4 times in the past three years before getting to the realization that it really isn't about her, but about finding a happiness level for both.

Now we go out together dressed for shopping drinks and dinner, and to group meetings. She wants me to start electrolysis, and attend SCC this year, so I will!

Give it time and keep on talking, The dialogue is what will keep her involved.

Barbara

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Teresa, It all depends on a womans mind set as to how they will ever accept us.

[Bootsiegalore]

I'm just going round in ever decreasing circles!!!

I believe Aviators call that a "Death Spiral". Sorry to hear your woes.

[Amanda L.]

This I guess is part of the transitioning process for any wife that has to deal with being part of her husbands secret. Teresa if I may ask how long have you been married and how long had you been married before your wife was invited to share your Teresa side?
I am very hesitant (to put it mildly!) about coming out to my wife even though I think the fork in the road is getting closer than I want to admit.
Amanda

[MatildaJ.]

Teresa, have you and your wife had a conversation about budgeting for your purchases? Her statement "You don't need them, they're not necessary !! " sounds like someone who is concerned about where the money is going to come from to pay for your extravagances.

After all, you agree, presumably, that you don't need high-heeled work boots, right?

http://www.charlotterusse.com/product/Lace-Up-Hiker-Heel-Bootie/242323.uts?cid=ps:nonbrand:Google&adpos=1o1&creative=50228802664&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CJP9lKSSoMACFQGMaQod2LQAMA

So maybe you were joking about getting them, but it's hard for her to see the humor when she doesn't understand why you buy, say, fancy outfits for wearing around the house, or other things that you want but don't necessarily need. If you could reassure her that you aren't lost in a pink fog, and you still understand the value of money and saving for retirement, that might help her stay more relaxed.

[Gretchen_To_Be]

Theresa, my wife's acceptance has had ups and downs. I try not to push things too much, and she appreciates that.

[Kris Avery]

Hang in there Teresa.

My SO has had many ups and downs but the important thing is that we both continue to try our best to remember what is important to the other and put the other first. If both do that...the rest is easy.

[Teresa]

Amanda I've been married forty years, I came out to my wife twenty years ago but I'm afraid there's no shared Teresa time !

Jess since coming out and our more recent talks my wife does have the odd jokey comment about wearing inappropriate shoes ! She does know where my stuff is kept but I made her promise she wouldn't look unless we talked about it first, from her comments I have a sneaking feeling she has looked unless she's just fishing for me to say something ! On that basis she doesn't know what clothes I have, apart from things she thought had gone to charity shops which I've admitted I have sorted and kept things I liked, we're only one dress size difference on most things. She was OK with that and now offers me things, the only clothes I refused were my daughters, I've never touched her things, it just doesn't feel right !
I haven't spent a fortune and I only use cash to restrict my spending and also not using credit cards for my stuff doesn't leave a trail ! Her lack of humour some days would only be because she having a bad day otherwise and CDing then ceases to be funny !

[Rachael Leigh]

Teresa I feel for ya hon, our SO are very special to us and when we try to get them to understand but don't is very hard.
Hope things get better

[NatalieBliss]

Teresa, have you and your wife had a conversation about budgeting for your purchases? Her statement "You don't need them, they're not necessary !! " sounds like someone who is concerned about where the money is going to come from to pay for your extravagances.

After all, you agree, presumably, that you don't need high-heeled work boots, right?

http://www.charlotterusse.com/product/Lace-Up-Hiker-Heel-Bootie/242323.uts?cid=ps:nonbrand:Google&adpos=1o1&creative=50228802664&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CJP9lKSSoMACFQGMaQod2LQAMA

So maybe you were joking about getting them, but it's hard for her to see the humor when she doesn't understand why you buy, say, fancy outfits for wearing around the house, or other things that you want but don't necessarily need. If you could reassure her that you aren't lost in a pink fog, and you still understand the value of money and saving for retirement, that might help her stay more relaxed.

Thank you for posting this perspective. It's always nice to step back and consider a bigger picture.

[CynthiaD]

Something I learned very quickly is not to ask for approval. My wife is accepting virtually all the time. But if you asked her whether she would rather I were a crossdresser or a non crossdresser, her answer would certainly be "non crossdresser." Acceptance is one thing, approval is something else.

It sounds to me as if your wife thought you were asking for approval. In that context her answer isn't all that surprising. I suspect that you will find that you haven't really taken two steps back. You just stepped into some dangerous territory.

[Christie ann]

Yes, sounds very similar to our conversations. If there is forward momentum it is pretty slow.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Something I learned very quickly is not to ask for approval. My wife is accepting virtually all the time. But if you asked her whether she would rather I were a crossdresser or a non crossdresser, her answer would certainly be "non crossdresser." Acceptance is one thing, approval is something else.

It sounds to me as if your wife thought you were asking for approval. In that context her answer isn't all that surprising. I suspect that you will find that you haven't really taken two steps back. You just stepped into some dangerous territory.

This is a really insightful answer and made me realise this is true in my marriage. I can accept my H needs to do this, but if he was still seeking actual approval from me I'd feel pretty annoyed, too. (He did this in he past and it grew old very quickly!) I've said time and again here that approval is something we give children, not grown men who should already have figured themselves out!! Dangerous territory is definitely the word for this. If you seek approval you might instead hear the words you've been avoiding - that even the most accepting GG can still prefer you weren't a crossdresser and yes, deep down might even disapprove of the behavior. Do you really want or need to hear this? Isn't self approval the only kind we should seek?

Teresa, next time, don't add the 'would you mind?' comment to your joke. It adds a weight of seriousness and desperation that ruins the humor (it might have been funny otherwise!) and you know full well your wife will never openly love this side of you or prefer you in heels over work boots. Her acceptance has already been given - she understands that you need Teresa in your life. If you need more than this, the issue is more about you than her and you may still need to decide if this marriage is worth it. x

[Sometimes Steffi]

Ah, the ever decreasing circles.

I think my wife is Pluto and I am the sun. She's in a stable elliptical orbit that sometimes comes a little bit closer to the sun, and other times move a little farther away, by even at the closest point, we are still pretty far apart.

[Nyla F]

I sympathize with you Teresa. I got the "why would you need that" comment with regards to the bras I have. And a recent attempt to joke about crossdressing just got me a snarky response. All I can say is, make sure you are at peace with yourself, and find some way for your needs to be met. If you want acceptance and approval and support, that is what we are here for.
-Nyla

[Teresa]

Cynthia I'm not avoiding straight talking but sometimes you can make headway just through a few jokey remarks ! I guess I'm using them to fish for more comments and questions, to come out in small ways !

[Jenniferathome]

Teresa, is that where the conversation ended? You need to know the "why" of it. Is it possible that she objects for the financial reason? Might she think it is excessive for the amount of time you dress/go out? "Honey, why are you upset about this?" seems a good place to start. Sleeping dogs in the cross dresser's world should not be left to lie.

[Suzanne F]

This is a really insightful answer and made me realise this is true in my marriage. I can accept my H needs to do this, but if he was still seeking actual approval from me I'd feel pretty annoyed, too. (He did this in he past and it grew old very quickly!) I've said time and again here that approval is something we give children, not grown men who should already have figured themselves out!! Dangerous territory is definitely the word for this. If you seek approval you might instead hear the words you've been avoiding - that even the most accepting GG can still prefer you weren't a crossdresser and yes, deep down might even disapprove of the behavior. Do you really want or need to hear this? Isn't self approval the only kind we should seek?

Teresa, next time, don't add the 'would you mind?' comment to your joke. It adds a weight of seriousness and desperation that ruins the humor (it might have been funny otherwise!) and you know full well your wife will never openly love this side of you or prefer you in heels over work boots. Her acceptance has already been given - she understands that you need Teresa in your life. If you need more than this, the issue is more about you than her and you may still need to decide if this marriage is worth it. x

Tinker Bell
I wanted to point out that all grown men or women do not always have themselves figured out. Coming to terms with being TS for me has been a process. My wife is going through a process to see where she stands in relationship to me being a woman. We both are at a different place than we were 18 months ago. We all grow and hopefully learn to accept what we cannot change or find the strength to change what we can.
Suzanne

[mariehart]

I believe Aviators call that a "Death Spiral". Sorry to hear your woes.Good allegory but a good aviator can recover from a spiral by levelling and the wings and pulling out of the dive gently. Pull too hard and the wings come off, too little and you go straight in.

Essentially doing nothing is not an option but reacting rashly won't help either. You have to keep things going in small gentle movements. I realised that my wife isn't going to suddenly wake up one morning and tell me she's happy with it. On the other had she isn't going to turn around and tell me to never do it again. But a few years from now I hope it will all be normal for her.

Basically keep the wings level and don't slow down or speed up too much. That's all we can do.

[Christie ann]

Ah, the ever decreasing circles.

I think my wife is Pluto and I am the sun. She's in a stable elliptical orbit that sometimes comes a little bit closer to the sun, and other times move a little farther away, by even at the closest point, we are still pretty far apart.

Great illustration

[Stephanie47]

I have to agree with Cynthia and Tinkerbell. I have been married for over forty years, so I'm in the same boat. My wife has been aware of my cross dressing tendencies and has seen how they have grown over the years. What started out as "bedroom Play" with a nightie and stockings grew to full blown attire and wigs. I believe she is not aware of the extent of my wardrobe and wig. I have my attire stored in plain sight in Xerox boxes. If she knows, she knows. It's truly DADT. We have not had a discussion on the subject for over twenty-five years.

Years ago I realized two things. First, and, most important is she is not accepting of men wearing women's clothing. Cross dressing is something she did not sign on for. I'm fortunate that she has realized my cross dressing is a very small part of who I am. I am not a womanizer. I am not a user of alcohol, drugs, etc.

Secondly, I realized any attempt at trying to "force" my cross dressing on her is nothing short of mental or emotional abuse. She and I went once to Meryn's to buy me some panties. In my mind it was really an attempt by me to have her accept and participate in some manner. The trip was so stressful for her it bordered on abuse. Sure, no one but she and I knew the panties were not for her. But, she knew they were for me! At that moment I realized my attempt to have her engage in conversation was an attempt for me to gain self acceptance.

"If my wife were to accept my cross dressing, then it must be OK!"

I choose not to engage her in conversations because she is not accepting of cross dressing. To "push" it on her in any manner is nothing more than abuse. And, I am secure in how I see myself.

[Coping2014]

Cynthia I'm not avoiding straight talking but sometimes you can make headway just through a few jokey remarks ! I guess I'm using them to fish for more comments and questions, to come out in small ways !

It's just my take on this scenario but I know I don't like the snarky, jokey remarks, and fishing. I'm a spit it out kind of girl. My husband found this out early as I would get annoyed with his hem hawing around and tell him just that - spit it out already. It would seem to me that if you have been married for 40 years that just making a comment here and there hasn't worked so far. Maybe you should try a different approach?

Coping2014

[Kate Simmons]

If course she looked at your stuff. Women are naturally curious. If she didn't she would have to have her "woman's club" card taken away :heehee: but that's part of why we love them, right because they care. Tink is right in that she will probably never approve of this part of you. It gets annoying when they think that the man they married (their complement) jumped out the CD window again. Work with what you have Hon and do your best. At least your wife accepts this part of you, mine never did.:)

[Teresa]

Coping much of this is new to both of us, I came out to her twenty years ago but it's only since joining the forum eight months ago that I've manged to read and learn from other members how to approach talking to her. She is the sort that doesn't mind jokey remarks but obviously I have to pick the right moment ! She does the same to me maybe with a touch more sarcasm !

[MsVal]

I wonder what is going on in your wife's mind? She's part of the DADT arrangement too.

Is she in denial, dreading what she believes will be the inevitable escalation and demise of your marriage?
Does she believe that things will remain as they are, providing no one spoils the status quo by talking about it?
Is the fear of examining her own beliefs and biases keeping her from talking?
Could your wife be quite insecure and believe that she would have to address her own issues?

My wife has some insight in this matter.
She believes that since there is no requirement to provide a real answer to a hint or a joke, you won't get one. Instead of the indirect approach, she believes you would have greater success with a direct approach. Make sure that she knows you love her, respect her, and want to spend the rest of your life with her. Let your wife know that hiding and sneaking is tearing you up inside. Tell her that you want to be up front and honest about your crossdressing. Say that you don't expect her to embrace this part of you, but that you want her to accept that it is as much a part of you as your eye color, and like your eye color, it won't go away. Let her know that you want to have a frank, open, totally honest, and ongoing conversation. It bears repeating that you set her mind at ease regarding your love, respect, and commitment to your marriage. Without that, she is right to expect the worst.

Expect the conversation to be difficult, maybe painful, and lead to a better understanding.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Di]

i am just guessing here from your posts lately that your wife is thinking one thing and you are on another page.
From your post about getting new clothes and you wish is was womans clothes.
From your thread Do they know how bad we feel
And your leg shaving thread with this......

I asked if she minded me wearing shorts, she said no why should I ? I said well haven't you noticed ? Oh she said those few marks ! No I said there's no hair ! She asked why I shaved and I said I preferred it ! She gave me a funny look and asked if I was getting worse ! Since then she made some sarcastic remarks about getting a nice tan on my legs and being careful not to scratch them !
Her saying is it getting worse sounds like she does not understand
and I keep reading the jokey comments you make. Is that your way of explaining things but making silly comments?
Or do you really talk and explain how you feel. Maybe share these threads with her ?

Or do you have a real dadt deal where she does not want to hear or see anything?

You seem frustrated so my advice is really talk and not jokes
or leave it as a dadt if that is what she wants.
......
I am just trying to help and I am not in YOUR relationship so you know it better BUT I am also a straight shooter and all this would have me running for the hills.

I just feel frustrated for you:hugs: but just from these posts it seems like you are thinking xyz and she is thinking ABC.
:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

[Teresa]

Msval,
She knows and has admitted how much it's hurting me and she also knows I'm trying to be honest and open but I can only do that if she wants to hear it.
She knows I still love her but she often casts doubts that she feels the same. When we talk of downsizing I ask her straight if she loves me enough to want to continue to live with me, last time she said angrily that she was sick of me asking that and then calmly added beside how would I manage without you.

[Teresa]

Di,
The problem for me is realising CDing is for life, I've been in the closet for fifty plus years, I'm now in my early sixties and It's getting ridiculous hiding behind closed doors, my brain is mentally tired of it ! Our talks have progressed slowly but well and my wife has admitted that our lack of intimacy is hurting me ! Reading between the lines she is just letting me get on with it, but in our last talk I said I felt in limbo because there were no ground rules ! I don't know how far is too far !
Yes you're right we are obviously on a different page she either doesn't understand or doesn't want to !
The jokey way of doing things seems to aggravate some people but it might be the way with our relationship to move it forward !

Sharing the threads with her would be wonderful for me but in your words have her running for the hills !!