After my rant, but can some explain this please ?

[Teresa]

OK so this isn't a rant but need it explaining please !

I've been sleeping badly for some time, maybe toss and turn for a couple of hours but eventually get up and make a warm drink. I then find then if I put a nightie on under my PJs I usually sleep fairly well, obviously my wife isn't aware of this.
She has to work late twice a week so I go to bed in just a nightie and no PJs, I usually wake before she gets in at eleven and slip my PJs on top, last night I didn't hear her arrive home but heard her moving about downstairs but managed to cover up !
She commented with a wide smile how sound asleep I was, and how I hadn't noticed she was home almost as if she had seen me in the nightie !
I asked this morning why she commented on it, all she said was with the racket you made most of the night I knew you were flat out !
I then went on to explain that I was wearing a nightie under my PJs to help me sleep! She didn't get upset, but said that if helped me that's what you'll have to do but don't flaunt it.

She's left me in mid-air again ! I asked what do I do about it ? I got a non committal do whatever !
I assume that I carry on the way it is but the nightie can now reside under my pillow with my PJs, but if the situation arises again of me wearing it unaware she's home what will she do about it ? She knows I'm desperate to get my sleep pattern back !

[Annaliese]

Teresa I have followed your posts, with interests, she going to get mad, So if it helps you sleep, end of story if she asks.

[Amanda L.]

Hi Teresa
Reading your last few,posts it seem like you have quite a conundrum on your hands. You and your wife have been together for a long time and she has known about your need to dress for twenty years I believe. It seems to me that thismisma DADT type situation and I am not going to make any other assumptions than that but it seems to me that you want your wife's approval to be Teresa and after all those years she is somewhat reticent. You also seem to be attune to when your wife come home so out can cover up the nightie and this can't be helping your sleep pattern. so why not just wear the nightie freely if it helps you sleep and see where the conversation goes from there. I can somewhat understand or sense some frustration on your part as I thnk it is comforting to have the SO involved in decisions but sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. If you are getting some mixed signals then it is understandable that you may be confused so the line ine the sand might need re marking.
I wish you all the best.
Luv
Amanda

[Rachael Leigh]

Well my wife doesn't like me sleeping in gowns either or panties for that matter, so many months ago she went to the guest bed. Mostly because of that but not totally

[Shelly Preston]

Teresa Your wife obviously understands you need to wear a nightie if its going to help you sleep. She just does not want to see you on a morning wearing it when your making breakfast.

If it does not work you will have to explain that too so be careful what you wish for.

[Kris Avery]

Once again, I feel blessed that my SO is not concerned what I wear and doesn't tell me what to wear...only to get naked on occasion when the clothes are on her nerves. She doesn't abuse this either. :battingeyelashes:

She said to me when discussing this situation that she wants me to be her mate...not control me or tell me what to wear.

That said, I do show much discretion when the kids are home and when they get up in the night.

[MsVal]

It appears that your wife is concerned about your well being and is more willing to make concessions than to talk about making concessions. My wife and I agree that you should go ahead and dress comfortably for bed.
You may be able to get additional opportunities by telling her something like:
I would really like some time to dress at home without feeling uncomfortable or afraid of criticism.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Tinkerbell-GG]

I then went on to explain that I was wearing a nightie under my PJs to help me sleep! She didn't get upset, but said that if helped me that's what you'll have to do but don't flaunt it.

She's left me in mid-air again ! !

Theresa, there's nothing 'mid-air' about this. She's said you can wear a nightie under your PJs because you sleep better. Don't flaunt the situation by strutting about in said nightie or adding heels and a wig! Don't even draw attention to it. Just go to bed and sleep. The end. I don't see any other meaning to her comment.

Your frustration is complicating things. I can feel her frustration also, through your words as she really does sound like she wants you to just get on with DADT but you won't leave it alone. If you really need to say things to her and she really won't listen, maybe you can write everything down and ask her if she'd like to read it? If she says no, I think you have your final answer on this. I'd even consider therapy to help with the trapped feelings and frustration you're living with.

I feel both your pain, Teresa, after so many years together and so much love. This is hard on you both, and I'm sorry you're suffering so much.

[Jenniferathome]

I'll agree with Tinkerbell on the "mid-air" comment. But, if you really want a direct answer, how about talking to her. "Sweetie, I am going to start wearing a nightie to bed instead of pajamas from now on. Let me know i that bothers you." That would be unequivocal.

[Anna H]

It seems to be agreeable that there won't be any outright "approval"
so i'm guessing *tolerance* is likely the best you could hope for(?)

Then, tolerance has many different levels too. For example...what does
this nightie look like? If it's all fetishy with feathers and poofiness
and frills and lace...that could possibly do some damage to any existing
tolerance.

If you dress like any normal woman would, that's quite different from making
sexy, kinky (even mildly) types of presentations. I wouldn't imagine there
are many women who would accept that...even on any level of tolerance.
(with the exception of those who are "into it")

While i'm sure that's not the case, i also don't know you and her. I have
no idea of whether she may find it all mildly amusing at times, or
is completely horrified...(and then horrified at herself for having any
tolerance at all.)

I've gathered from your posts that there's the occasional bit of
humor involved, but that she doesn't want to have any kind
of in-depth conversation...which to her...may make her feel like she
is "approving"

It may be best to just accept the tolerance she's willing to give and
be conservative with it.

I honestly do feel for you...i like you very much...and i wish there
was something i could say or do to be helpful.

I hesitate to post this...mine is OK with what I do and I have no
idea of how it is for those who have to be DADT. I just hope it'll
be taken as trying to be helpful.

:)

[suchacutie]

25 years before Tina arrived my wife and I were shopping in the men's section of a large department store when we spied a Dior sleeping gown made for men. It basically deep blue, quite substantial,and feels wonderful. I've owned it for 35 years...so very warm. I wonder if this could be a compromise?

P.S. Below I was asked to add an image of the Dior sleeping gown.....

[Charla McBee]

I could never live under DADT and I have no idea how so many of you do it. I was up front with my wife before we even started dating again and she has been nothing but supportive. She can see the psychological torment I go through and tries to convince me it's not that big of a deal, if wearing a nightgown to bed is going to calm me down, she is all for it. I ask for total honesty from her in return for my own and while I'm not judging you or your marriage I can't imagine living any other way.

At the end of the day, it's a piece of fabric and it helps you sleep. A good night's sleep is essential to your health and well-being (as is crossdressing evidently). It should be as simple as that.

[UNDERDRESSER]

we spied a Dior sleeping gown made for men. It basically deep blue, quite substantial,and feels wonderful. That sounds fascinating, any chance of a picture? Not necessary to model it if you don't want to. I just want to see the style.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm shocked, Teresa! That u, or any adult would wear manjamas. Especially during the heat of the summer?

I gave up wearing them when I was what? 15, 16?

[Roxie]

Teresa,
I've also have followed your post for sometime now,you are a vary frustrated girl.It seems your girl side wants out in a vary bad way.Wear the nightie at night if that's what makes you feel better.However I would think you have to work this out with your wife.AS I had to hide my dressing from my former GF ,All this does is drive a wedge in your relationship which is never a good thing.I wouldn't tell you to just "own it" as this doesn't seem like it would work in your case. However you do have to think about your own mental health.Maybe work on some common ground? Maybe some joint counseling ?Go slow and steady ,but it sounds to me like your wife is in complete control of your dressing.Being someone that has been in your position ,never a good thing
Keep us posted and good luck
Roxie

[Teresa]

Kate, Thanks for your reply you have it about right with your comments !
The nighties were my wife's she'd pushed to the back of the airing cupboard, I probably bought them for her in the first place for Xmas presents which I did every year until she started wearing PJs . I always bought tasteful ones but she wouldn't wear frilly .

[Rhonda Jean]

Teresa,
Isn't this a compromise that that's really unacceptable to both of you? Surely you can't really be happy or satisfied wearing a nightie under your pajamas. It seems like you're trying to find any little outlet, and she's resists all of it. When this one doesn't work you try another, and another. She pushes back on all of it. Most of us have been there. This, and probably other things, are compromises born of desperation. It's unending. It can cause you (us) to do things that from the outside look silly. We can't see it because we're too mired in the desperation.

I'm not coming down on you, really. I've done worse. It takes one to know one, as they say. When my first son was born my hair was about bra strap length. My wife and I both thought (hoped) that being a parent would refocus me to the point that I could put the cding away. For over a year I tucked my hair down in my shirt. Like that was fooling anybody! It was just stupid, and I'm sure it looked stupid. I'm embarrassed that I ever did it, but at the time it seemed like a reasonable compromise.

There's no solution to this. Either you give up or she gives in. What will probably happen is that you'll move on from this to the next thing, and the cycle continues. I don't know where you are in all this. I assume you've had some little "victories" along the way. Little feminine touches that she's mostly OK with. It'd be nice for both of you if you could just rest on those for a while. It's good to just take a breath every now and then. I think as long as you're on this endless pursuit it wears everybody out. The harder you push, the harder she pushes back.

Enjoy what you've got. Keep communication open, or establish more open communication. You seem to be in a constant stare of turmoil. That's bad for everybody. It's possible, maybe even likely, that she'll resist anything that hints of femininity, but it's also possible that she won't. But, it's unlikely that you can predict what's acceptable to her and what's not. Maybe you're beating your head against the wall wanting to wear a nightie under your pajamas, and unknown to you she'd be just fine with you getting your ears pierced, or getting your brows waxed, or wearing nail polish.

Several years ago a friend of mine retired from the military. He soon started growing his hair out and got his ears pierced. Everybody commented on it. He said that he'd looked forward to being able to have long hair for his whole career, but the earrings were his wife's deal. She'd wanted him to get his ears pierced for a long time, but wasn't all that keen about the long hair. Their compromise was if he was going to let his hair grow he had to get his ears pierced. You just never know.

[JillyJones]

"She's left me in mid air again" - I find that to be a typical female trait. Why does she have to agree or disagree to your wearing a nightie to bed? It sounds like she has no problem with it and is happy for you to continue as long as it doesn't affect other aspects of your lives.
As for getting your sleep pattern back, does she think you only wear the nightie for bed time?

[Teresa]

Rhonda and Jilly I would prefer to wear the nightie without PJs, I do sleep better, I guess we're back to clothes relieving stress !
Her comment about don't flaunt it well I'm usually the first to be about so I put a black silk wrap on to do a few jobs and make tea to take up to her, but back in my PJs.

[devida]

"Don't flaunt it?" There's only one person you could be flaunting this to, and that is your SO. So your solution seems just fine. Just wear a nightie in bed, put on your robe when you go around the house.

The power dynamics in this relationship have me a bit puzzled. Do you require your SO to wear certain clothes when she sleeps? I simply do not understand why you couldn't wear a clown suit (with a honking big red nose) as your sleepwear if that's what you need to sleep well.

After I recovered from a terminal diagnosis I discovered that I could not sleep naked, as I had all my life, I had to wear a night gown. Although this was before I realized and declared to my SO that I was transgender, she helped me buy some bamboo night gowns which she said were close enough to nightshirts that nobody would care even if they saw me wearing them. Actually they were obviously women's nightgowns. My SO was just being kind to me in my somewhat dazed state. She knew how important it was for me to sleep.

She was right about the nightgowns, BTW. Nobody who has seen me wearing them cares. Of course I also wear much shorter nighties now with panties. I might get a few raised eyebrows about those. Though certainly not from my SO.

Sleep is actually one of this non negotiable issues. It is so important to physical and mental health that if you have to use a penny hanger to sleep, your SO should help you to string up the rope.

[Teresa]

Devida I think she may come to that decision gradually, a nightie is not the end of the world ! One decent nights sleep in seven is a bit draining !

But really a clown suit and honking red nose that's just silly, especially as I insist on still wearing the big clown shoes !!!
That's another point a nightie with drab slippers ? I really could do with...............! Lets not go there !

[kittypw GG]

Well my wife doesn't like me sleeping in gowns either or panties for that matter, so many months ago she went to the guest bed. Mostly because of that but not totally

First she is in the guest bedroom then the intimacy slows to a stop then what do you have? A roommate, not a partner. Cross dressing is like a wedge in a marriage, as a wife you have to compete with this other weird female that once was your husband. It's too much for many of us especially since many of you have to keep pushing for more. I can't for the life of me understand why wearing a night gown to bed would help you sleep better. Perhaps counseling is a must? Teresa, I seriously think you have lost perspective. Your wife has drawn the line in the sand and told you what she can accept. It's you who can't accept things the way they are. You either have to get some professional help or eventually you will be out of a marriage in my opinion.

[Teresa]

Kitty,
Obviously no two wives are the same, some accept dressing and nighties in the bedroom some do not ! I'm only assuming that my wife will object but I'm not going to upset her by just doing it . Most of us accept that clothes have a calming effect they relieve stress the nighties have that effect and if I get a decent nights sleep it's better than medication !
Maybe I have lost perspective but a lack of sleep doesn't help to see things clearly, it's only a small way to try and help myself !

[Kate Simmons]

CDing is an emotional process. Next time you wear the nightgown to bed, honestly ask yourself why it calms you and analyze the feelings.Taking part in the process is okay but realizing why you feel better will go a long way in terms of understanding it.:)

[Marcelle]

Hi Teresa,

I can see your confusion as the conversation just ended . . . "If it helps then that is what you must do, just don't flaunt it". I would take the direct advice of others here . . . ask her what she meant and get a confirmed committed answer. "Can you wear the nightie by itself? What does "don't flaunt it" mean to her?" Sweetie, direct communication is the only way to resolve these types of statements. If you don't then you are left to interpret what was said and that never goes well IMHO.


. . . I can't for the life of me understand why wearing a night gown to bed would help you sleep better. Perhaps counseling is a must? Teresa, I seriously think you have lost perspective. Your wife has drawn the line in the sand and told you what she can accept. It's you who can't accept things the way they are. You either have to get some professional help or eventually you will be out of a marriage in my opinion.

Kitty,

It might be hard for you to understand but unfortunately, not all people tick the same way. If we did it would be a boring old world :). Sometimes things (yes inanimate objects like clothing) make us feel better about ourselves. I am sure you have an outfit or two that you wear which makes you feel like you can tackle the world on your own terms. Sometimes it is about feeling good and sometimes it is about relieving stress . . . that's all.

Actually, Teresa's wife has not drawn a line in the sand she said "Do it, just don't flaunt it" Teresa is just trying to ascertain what "Do it" meant (nightie by itself or under PJs) and what "flaunt it" meant. Once this is ascertained then there will be a boundary/compromise established IMHO :)

Hugs

Isha

[Lynn Marie]

Teresa, I bet your wife just loves you putting the private life you share on the Internet.

[Vale]

First, my sympathy and support. I was once in a similar situation. What finally worked for me was to say honestly, "thank you very much, and please tell me if something I do seems like flaunting to you, otherwise I won't know." Then kiss her. Then relax and do what honestly works best for you. IMO This works because now it is not your job to guess what her definition of flaunting is. After all, that responsibility rightfully belongs to her anyway.

Vale

[Teresa]

Isha your comments as usual are spot on ! Knowing how far to push a conversation especially CD related is tricky !

Lynn I have to trust the integrity of members ! I do also realise M-F section is open to guests ! Maybe I should have posted on Loved Ones ! Perhaps M-F should be split between open and members only !
Some of the questions on the surface appear trivial but getting to the meaning sometimes takes the help of members, without information they can't do that ! At the moment I have no other way of moving forward !

[donnalee]

Hi Teresa
So sorry to hear of your troubles.
Do you enjoy the softness of the material or that it looks feminine most? You may want to try a nightshirt, or pajamas made of a softer material (personally, I prefer rayon) and see if either option is tolerable to both you and your SO. Discuss it first, if possible.
Personally, I hate to see anyone in this situation; no good can come out of it, but I keep seeing this happen to many on this site and can only attribute it to a deep sense of personal guilt over something you cannot help and failure to establish a balanced relationship early on.
Unfortunately, I don't know the cure.

[devida]

I can't for the life of me understand why wearing a night gown to bed would help you sleep better. Perhaps counseling is a must? Teresa, I seriously think you have lost perspective.

Oh I can certainly answer that. In my case after I recovered from heart failure, which is also a failure of the circulatory system my skin became very, very sensitive. I could not sleep naked and I certainly could not sleep in constricting pajamas. I had to wear bamboo based women's nightgowns. Unfortunately for Teresa she might be in the same situation. She may not have had a catastrophic illness but there is a huge change happening in her life even if it is or appears to be more psychological than physical: she is learning to be transgender or to be a functional human being who cross dresses if you prefer.. In fact the whole separation between body and mind is silly since it is one organism that expresses itself through the whole organism. So Teresa, like me, may have to wear a nightie in order to sleep. Being unable to sleep causes a cascade of physiological changes, including heightened nervous sensitivity, which may make it even more difficult for her to sleep without a nightie.

I know if I keep banging away at this I will sound like an old drum but everybody is different, everybody's experience is valid, nobody has grown up with kind and accepting parents who taught them the right way to be a cross dresser or transgender, we are all making it up as we go along, we don't have the same bodies or the same minds or, certainly, the same pattern of relationships. We have some commonalties which is what most find most helpful about this forum but we also have differences which, in their own way, can be just as helpful as our similarities.

We all have different ways of negotiating similar needs in our relationships. If my wife were to draw a line in the sand for me or I were to to the same to her the first thing either of us would do is jump up and down on the line and the second would be to have a huge screaming fit because the other person had the audacity to issue a command. This certainly does not mean either of us can do what we want it just means that in a household with two alphas, even though she may be more of a male alpha and me more of a female alpha, everything has to be negotiated from a place of love and sensitivity to each other's feelings. We don't argue much any more but when we do it is always, and I mean always, a result of one or the other being peremptory and authoritarian, being pushy and inconsiderate. I know in many households there are clear areas where authority is ceded to one partner or another, but not in ours. We are and always have been in constant negotiation, or if you like, constant communication. This can be exhausting but not nearly as tiring as the raging battles of our early marriage.