Understanding TS vs CD

[Rachael Leigh]

Hope this wont be to long but since joining here almost a year ago Ive been trying to understand those here who choose to go the TS route and HRT and all that. You see Ive never given thought to it other than briefly way back in my life when I thought maybe I should have been a girl. Going through counseling I realized that was not the case and since then even understand in reality to truly become a women is not possible.
However as I read here many of those threads so many here seem to go through this process and knowing how difficult it is still go ahead with it.
So I guess for me I dont really understand why you feel this desire to change how you were born, and dont get me wrong I know its not just something you wake up with like a head cold,its a very deep personal journey.
You see I try and look at everyone as one who is to be loved no matter there circumstance or situation, many of you know Ive faced a lot of issues with my dressing and trying to stop it for better or worse but have tried now to balance it better.
Many here also know Im a person of faith and no I will not discuss that here but feel free to pm me if you like. I just feel we all here have a decision to make are we going to learn to live with what we have or do we have to alter who we are by taking chemicals or what have you. I again want to understand Im not trying to say anyone here is wrong.
I want to be able to see people for who they are and love them interact with them no matter what.
I hope no one here takes offense to this because this for me is all about education.
Thanks for letting me ramble on have a great day.
Leigh

[Annaliese]

I am not Transition, tho I would like to, it not a mater of alter who we are, its a matter of change to what we are, to match the body to the mind. I have heard it said, not so much here, you can never be a real girl. I am all ready a real girl, I just need that body to match the mind. Being raised a boy, makes it harder for us, but none the less you can't change who we are. You can't become the real you.

[Kate Simmons]

Hi Leigh, It makes a big difference when we truly get to know ourselves and who we are. When I was very young I always felt I wanted to be a girl as my behavior and desires seemed to gravitate towards genetic girls and the things they did.To look like a girl I wore girls clothes when I could. At the same time I was a "roll in the dirt rough and tumble" young boy. I secretly considered myself a female who was a tom boy though. Even back then you might say I was my own unique person and it didn't set well with me at all to bend to the will of the crowd. As things continued I felt that I needed to get a "sex change" as they called it back then and quite a few men had successfully accomplished that. That being the case I was determined to get the operation after I got out of the Army.

Before I did that, however, I met a woman and got married and decided to give the guy thing a chance. It was okay for awhile but despite raising three kids the CDing came back and was there all through my marriage. I went to a number of therapists but never about the CDing itself, rather trying to figure out how to deal with family and friends that did have a problem with it. I finally ended up living it by dressing 24/7 for almost half a year which in effect ended my marriage as well. Even so I realized I didn't need to transition to express my feelings as I was no longer afraid or ashamed of them. So at this point I can present as a guy or girl and it's all according to my own choice. With TS folks I'm told however that they have no choice but to transition. That to myself is the biggest difference.:)

[docrobbysherry]

Some things I learned from the girls on this site:

I'm not TS. Altho I once thot I was. I'm a CD.

There r VERY MANY TS's that do not transition. And, there r a zillion reasons why they don't. Every person here has their own!

[Lorileah]

I wish I could explain it is simple terms. I wish there was a way to convey how or why. There isn't.

I guess the real answer is, it is because of who we are and how we feel about our lives. I cannot possibly speak for the thousands out there going through this. But one day I woke up and said "You have only one person to be responsible to. Life is short and you don't know when it will end." I decided I needed to be happy (something I now question, because it seems my life is about keeping others happy at my expense...). But I won't quit, it is who I am. Even with all the train wrecks that occurred when I chose to continue, being me is far more important than what others think.

We have to be true to ourselves. At the end of the day we have to look at ourselves and see who we are and be happy. My mistake was waiting, and don't get that wrong I had a wonderful life. But years went by with me thinking I didn't need to I could just push it away. I didn't realize how unhappy I was inside until I decided to "come out". Could I have gone on? Yes I could have. Can I go back, no because I now see how I should be.

On the broad spectrum of TGizm (and don't start arguing with me on semantics, read the sticky about definitions and that is what I am going by), I knew for years that I was different inside. I thought CD would be good, it wasn't what I needed. When I dressed and went out things changed and everyone around me could see it. When you are close to something you tend to not see what the big picture is. I don't really care where on the spectrum others are, it doesn't matter how they see themselves. They are who they are. But I am a TS. I would love to be a post-op TS but there are obstacles that stand in the way; ones I am unwilling to tackle at this time (money and age...I know I won't get younger).

So how do we explain why we do what we do? I don't know. Why is the sky blue or the water wet? Why do you like red or blue but not Yellow? Why are you attracted to certain traits in a mate? You can say "because I like it" but that doesn't explain it. There are some things in life you just need to go with your gut on. I know I am happier as me. It came it a cost though as it always does. Us who have decided to follow that path decided what we are willing to give. No one gets through it unscathed. But we have to do it.

[Daisy41]

The thing is, I see a lot of discussion about how there's a distinct line between being transgender and "just a crossdresser". What astonishes me is that those I've talked to those who are transgender and they don't even make a distinction between being transgender and being just a cross dresser. I know some transgender girls who simply decided one day that they wanted to be a girl, a few weeks later they're on HRT. While that's not very common, it blew me away to know they went through that process so quickly. What even amazes me more is how I go out presenting female more often than some transgender girls I know who have been on HRT for months. People often see HRT as the line you cross that really starts transitioning, but the thing is, HRT is only one part of a much bigger change. I consider myself transgender and a crossdresser and I pretty much stand with feet on both sides. Being a cross dresser doesn't mean you ARE trans, but being trans doesn't mean you cross dresser. They're neither inclusive or exclusive.

With all that said, I consider myself as bigender, part of the transgender pool. I could be happy transitioning, but I am also happy not transitioning. I know a girl who lives full time as a female and isn't on any hormones and lives quite successfully as such. I think the true transition is moving away from an identity that's bound by social stigmas and self shame and more into full acceptance and expressing yourself in a manner that you feel comfortable. I don't think it's defined by how you look, but more so how you live and isn't bound to people who identify completely as the opposite gender.

[arbon]

So I guess for me I dont really understand why you feel this desire to change how you were born,

Transitioning to me was accepting the way I was born.

Prior to that I always felt like I was living a lie because I was not really a guy.

[Suzanne F]

Leigh I now understand your response to my post in TS section concerning my insurance covering HRT and SRS. I disagree with you in that it is possible for me to be a woman. I have fought it all my life and I am now moving toward being the real me. Which is a beautiful complicated person that identifies as a woman. I am balancing my future decisions about hormones and surgery with my family's needs. I am in many ways a real woman and will increasingly look like one. I too am a person of faith. He has been with me every step of this journey.

I wanted Crossdressing to be enough. However, it is not. Once I let go of the suppression the need to be me was overwhelming. Each next step toward transition has called for another. I have done this in conjunction with both my therapist and psychiatrist. Both of who believe and support that I will fully transition. I love all of the women I have met here on the crossdressing portion of the site. I still want to be part of the community. I also want to be here for the person who realizes they need more than occasional dressing. Though rare, it does happen.

Anyway that is my little rant!
Suzanne

[PaulaQ]

Q: "What's the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual?"
A: "About 3 years..."

OK, so that's an old joke.

On some level, I always identified as being a girl. I played with girls, mostly, I didn't understand why my parts were different from a girls. I didn't like myself or my body - at all. I crossdressed from about 10 years old on. Unfortunately, I knew I couldn't possibly be a girl, because everyone told me I wasn't, and all the evidence suggested that I was male. I mean - I had guy parts, started developing body hair, and other things that freaked me out. I was told though that people who felt as I did were some kind of horrible perverts.

Then I heard about the early trans women who underwent gender reassignment surgery. I was really attracted to this idea - but it seemed like something only the very wealthy could aspire to.

By the end of highschool, I was so miserable and hated myself so much that I wanted to die. I thought about suicide a lot. I desperately wanted to be a woman. That seemed impossible, so I tried plan A - alcohol. I drank, a lot.

Years later, I got sober, still didn't deal with my gender identity, and swore off those thoughts forever. That lasted for a while, and I remarried.

Unfortunately it didn't last forever, and by last year I was ready to kill myself again. So I gave up trying to be a man, and accepted myself as a woman, and began my transition.

My gender has been a lifelong source of mental and emotional anguish for me. It's a LOT better now.

So I guess that's the difference a TS vs a CD. I needed to transition, or I'd surely have died at my own hand. A CD doesn't.

[KellyJameson]

You are a crossdresser if you experience women as "the other gender". This is a very male thing to do. In general men who are not misogynisitic and who are or have been sexually interested in women relate to them in very specific ways.

I cannot imagine someone who hates women being a crossdresser. Men who crossdress seem to idolize women. Crossdressing seems to be almost a form of worship but where the person uses their own body attempting to turn it into an alter.

Crossdressers are chasing after something they want to capture . Transsexuals are not chasing but being pursued as if they are being haunted.

I constantly tried to escape my actual gender identity. I moved away from what I knew I was because I did not want to deal with the consequences if I accepted what I knew to be true.

I have always related to women as a woman and never as a man. Crossdressers are clearly men and you see it in their adoration of women.

Certain men really torment themselves when it comes to hurting a woman and you see this very clearly in their guilt.

It is instinctive in men to protect women. This instinct is missing in me because being a transsexual means that you do not share in the same instincts that men do so my guilt and motivations are very different from men.

Being a woman or a man starts in the most primitive parts of the brain. My brain at a primitive level works like a womans brain does.

Transsexuals are guided by the same instincts that women are guided by. Men operate on instincts very specific to the male gender and this influences their behavior toward women.

Perhaps it is the worship of feminine beauty mixed in with the love of women as mothers, sisters and wives.

I have never idolized women and for a long time I was not sure I even particularly liked them but that was coming out of the pain of my gender dysphoria.

Men are willing to die for women. I have never had this urge because I have never experienced women as "the other gender"

I experienced women as equal (sameness) to me and not different. Men don't do this. Men very much see women as being different from them and this is very important to men.

It is easy to know what you are as your gender. All you have to do is compare yourself as your instinctual behavior to men and women.

Crossdressers talk about how dressing calms them. Maybe because it calms their instincts as those relentless drives.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Crossdressers are chasing after something they want to capture . Transsexuals are not chasing but being pursued as if they are being haunted.


Wow, your entire post is really enlightening and honestly, you should write a book about this stuff! I think many a wife would read it and feel empowered to understand all this. The quote above really hit home for me as this is my H. He WORSHIPS women. He thinks we can't do any wrong and that females are the most beautiful humans alive. As his wife, I think he's nuts, lol. I know plenty of females who do wrong every day and I sure don't put women on a pedestal. I actually find many are really annoying. My H doesn't understand this!. And you're right...it's like he's trying to capture something that he wants to fully possess but doesn't know how. He apparently never feels like a female when dressed, and the visual woman he creates turns him on and makes him happy. He basically wants a woman who will do what he wants when he wants and who is literally under his skin. This is the ultimate in worship, isn't it?

I think many who post here feel quite differently than this though, as I think TS is possibly quite common here? Even the way many write their posts here; it's like a fellow GG writing. I sense a kinship with women more than worship. I sometimes have to remind myself that I'm actually chatting to men and when I remember this, I freak out a little, lol.

Anyway, on a side note, I read something the other week that mentioned the male identified crossdresser is actually more masculine in appearance when crossdressed than not. Male features often stand out more in female clothing than male, and really, this can be true. Apparently (and this is just what I read!) many quietly enjoy this outcome as they KNOW they're male and that's pretty much the point - accentuating the gender/sex difference. I'd guess this is largely a sexual dresser thing. On the other side, I'd bet a trans CD would hate to be reminded of their masculinity (because it doesn't exist!) so surely that's the BIG difference, and this answers the OP's original question: People transition because they're correcting what is essentially a birth defect. These things can't be ignored - if the options are there to fix the defect...why wouldn't you?!

Always interesting topics here :)

[noeleena]

Hi,

Some times understanding comes with a price and some people dont wont to pay .

This is about acceptance and many dont wont to accept that for what ever reason some few of us world wide are in fact born different , Its not a to choose or a decision that i made, because i never wonted to be a female or a woman doubt i wonted to be a male ether,

any way i was born both did i transition nope how could i from what to something else , maybe i have a name for it , any way, no matter,

Yes i,v had quite a few surgerys over the years, hope fully no more .

To understand who i am is not so easy though many try just its like you see , you are born a full male or = female, most likely not a female , so how do you go about understanding why we are the way we are,

ill stay with how i think as a normal female would and does and i dont know any other way ,

I,v spent most of my life 57 out of 67 years looking at thinking why are men like they are and do what they do , thought i sort of had a good idear yet 21 years ago i knew nothing about men apart from what i had seen and been told, so really i knew nothing ,

Strange as i had two people say to me men , why dont i just dress as a male and be one .

oh Dear, so i said i am actauley a female i doubt he belived me so i tryed to explain though i doubted he,d accept because of his background so i just said i was born female just not a complete one and left it at that , most if not all my friends dont really care i dont look feminine or like a female should facial wise ,

..............THEY really dont care..............

They accept what and who i am as a person first and 2 nd as a normal female just because i cant have or would have liked to my own children does not change who i am .

I struggle with how i look , though you have to remember thats .....ONLY ..... one part of what makes me who i am i have lots of other aspects about my self that people and my many friends see they know me very well i work for some help them and spend a lot of time around them and with in our many groups ,

If it were not for the fact of they wont me around them and be involved they would have soon made it plain they did not wont me to be with in a mile of them , its just not the case,

I like the word desire in your words to change, did i oh, in what way surgerys dressingin womens clothes, or how i have grown in to being - becoming a woman , i had to grow, to be able to express myself in a way that was not possiable for much of my life ,

yet in small ways i did and that was picked up on by friends going back to the 60,s and they knew more about who i was than i did, they saw in me what i was, and later told me they knew i was female , and were not at all surprised that i was expressing who i was and becoming a normal woman.

Im an intersexed female, whos totaly insane weird as yet others see a normal woman who has lots about her self that they like being around, oh yea im usefull as well, with my background id have to be,,

Mentalally , Psychlogically , and Emotionally ,all female /woman , and a little extra of masculineity that makes up for some of my lacks ,

I would say were it possible for you to meet me face to face then as i interact with you in talking about different things youd pick up from my body language that i am who i say i am its not an act or put on youd find im real ,

and as you see past my facial features youd see ....not .....what is reflected in a mirror, just a normal person , like as my friends do , and youd meet them as well .

So hope fully i,v given you some about my self and who i am .

...noeleena...

[ColleenA]

Leigh,

At the biological level, studies long ago proved there are differences between the brains of women and the brains of men. More recently, scientists have been finding that transsexuals often have brain structures that are actually different from their genetic gender; thus, many do self-identify as female, although they otherwise have the biology of a male (or vice versa).

At the social level, though, most people are raised and enculturated according to their apparent gender. To deviate from expected behaviors is to draw ridicule, outright hatred, and punishment; for instance, boys who are not athletic and boisterous are often criticized as being effeminate. As a consequence of such social considerations, many who are TS do not receive any support in coming to terms with who they are and quite often repress this for years, even decades. To "fit in," many try to hide or deny this side of themselves, even going so far as to work at appearing hyper-masculine - going into the military, becoming firefighters, turning to fighting and hard drinking, etc. (and of course, marrying and having children) - to throw suspicions away from them.

(Fortunately, times are changing - somewhat. Before 50-60 years ago, people had few if any options for addressing these issues. Now, many begin dealing with them before they marry and have children, which affect so many other lives.)

Eventually, though, people come to realize, as Lorileah said, "You have only one person to be responsible to. Life is short and you don't know when it will end." This is why so many TSs begin to consider transitioning only after the age of 35 or 50 or 65.

While not universal, this is part of the back story of many who are TS.


But this is different from someone who is CD, like you, Leigh, or me. I have interacted with enough TSs in my life to know that they actually have the minds of women, something which is not true about me. One eye-opening moment for me was reading a letter to Ann Landers years ago in which the person said they were embarrassed having to use the boys' room at school - I never would have imagined such a thing before then and it drove home to me that this is someone with the mind of a woman.

For me, although I had dabbled a bit before puberty, my cross-dressing did not really take hold until I was in 7th grade. A few years later, I remember, I sat down and seriously thought about if I was meant to be a woman. I realized then that I was not and could not be a woman (to be blunt, I, like many CDs, was initially drawn to women's clothes for their erotic appeal). And this realization has held true the few times during the subsequent 40 years when I revisited the question.

And it's not just in the brain ...
I joke that the only way I would want to be a woman is if I could only have the good parts of a woman's life. What Kelly Jameson said earlier is true for me:

Men who crossdress seem to idolize women.
Sure, I want to wear bras, pretty clothes and heels, but I know clothing is merely one aspect of women's lives. I readily admit that I personally am not equipped to deal with so much that are regular parts of their lives:
- preparing breakfast for the kids,
- getting them off to school,
- dressing to certain expectations for a job,
- being disrespected by too many of the men they work for and with,
- being responsible after work to: plan meals through the weekend, shop for the groceries, change out of work clothes, prepare dinner, feed the dog, make sure the kids are doing their homework, get the laundry started, remind the kids to bathe before bed, check on how your aging mother is doing, listen to her concerns about your father's health after his doctor appointment today, move the laundry into the dryer, do the breakfast and dinner dishes, tell your son for the third time to move the garbage cans to the sidewalk, walk the dog (a happy task as it allows for some quiet time), go over notes for a meeting at work tomorrow, fold the laundry, sew a button on your husband's shirt to replace the one you noticed was missing, listen to your daughter as she defends why she should be able to stay out until 2 a.m. this coming Friday night,

and finally ...
get ready for bed and lay down, but then have to deal with not only your hubby's advances but also his suggestion that tonight would be a good night to wear that skimpy piece of lingerie he gave you on Valentine's Day.

Nope, I do not have what it takes to be a woman. God bless them all - GGs and TSs.

[Samantha_Smile]

The only thing in my eyes that a TS and a CD/TV have in common is that they were born in a male body and wear clothes designed for females.

The motives for each are so different it would need a whole internet forum to discuss... HEY-WAIT-A-MINUTE!!! :D

[Eringirl]

[QUOTE=ColleenA;3584926]Leigh,
"Sure, I want to wear bras, pretty clothes and heels, but I know clothing is merely one aspect of women's lives. I readily admit that I personally am not equipped to deal with so much that are regular parts of their lives:
- preparing breakfast for the kids,
- getting them off to school,
- dressing to certain expectations for a job,
- being disrespected by too many of the men they work for and with,
- being responsible after work to: plan meals through the weekend, shop for the groceries, change out of work clothes, prepare dinner, feed the dog, make sure the kids are doing their homework, get the laundry started, remind the kids to bathe before bed, check on how your aging mother is doing, listen to her concerns about your father's health after his doctor appointment today, move the laundry into the dryer, do the breakfast and dinner dishes, tell your son for the third time to move the garbage cans to the sidewalk, walk the dog (a happy task as it allows for some quiet time), go over notes for a meeting at work tomorrow, fold the laundry, sew a button on your husband's shirt to replace the one you noticed was missing, listen to your daughter as she defends why she should be able to stay out until 2 a.m. this coming Friday night, "]

Hi Colleen:

For years I had to do all of the above as my SO worked shifts, so was often not there when our kids (two girls) were very young (babies up to middle school), so it was just me a lot of the time. To this day, I get home from work, walk the dog, plan and make dinner, clean up, etc, do the grocery shopping, laundry sometimes, (my SO does it normally, but sometimes life gets in the way and it gets backed up), my share of house cleaning etc. Yes, it is a lot of work for sure! My friends (both men and women) often joke that I am a good "wife" ;). To tell the truth, I look back on all of that and glad that it happened as my daughters and I are extremely close as a result. Even though they are all grown up with lives of their own, we talk often and about everything....that is awesome!

However, I do take your point, for sure. And yes, god bless women!

[Rachael Leigh]

Im really enjoying all these post and it so wonderful to see how many here have similar thoughts on this part of our lives. I know it is part of my brain and who knows why I love putting on a dress over pants or skirts and shaving my legs, I do and it feels good being here and able to say it.
Im so glad this group is here at some point I hope I will be able to actually meet some of you here for a girls night or day but my circumstances prevent that for now.
I made a promise to my wife about things like that and I will keep it.
Hugs to all and keep posting your thoughts
Leigh

[sometimes_miss]

Yes, science has discovered that MOST Male and female brains have specific differences. However, SOME do not! There are males who have 'female' brains, yet are perfectly normal males. And women who have 'male' brains who are normal females. So much for that theory. So, there's more going on there. We still don't know exactly what.
The most interesting thing that I see on these forums, is the wide variety of people who are transsexual, and the wide variety of their past lives experiences. Some are born, then know that something's wrong as soon as they become self aware. For others, it takes years, or decades. Why? Maybe there is something genetic there, but it doesn't always get triggered. Perhaps an infectious disease makes some gene become active. Or makes one gene act on another to cause it. Or even a life experience, because as we now know, our experiences make changes in our brains, as new thoughts and memories do make physical changes in our brains at the molecular level. So basically, for transsexuals, there are lots of different ways to get there just as there are lots of different ways to become a crossdresser. It's like, how do you get from New York to LA? There are lots of different ways. Some people will have some things in common, like some will all take cars, planes or trains. Others will all travel an night. And others will all stop over in Chicago. But we all get there with an ever so slight different combination of ways. Same with where we wind up identifying our gender, at whatever age. It's a combination of everything we started with, along with everything we've experienced, psychologically and physically, along the way.
The most difficult thing is to be able to examine yourself honestly, without letting wishful thinking get in the way. All too often I wind up reading about someone's transgender tale, and the thing that sticks out the most is that they want so much to be female....just because. Without much self introspection at all. Just that they really believe that they feel like a female. When, exactly, how could they know that? They've never been a female. What I hear most often is stereotypical beliefs of what men think females feel. Which, if you ask any real woman, is usually very wrong. So that brings up the question; Why do they think they're feeling like females? The answer is, we really don't know. Usually, anyway. I'm one of the fortunate ones who managed to figure out where my gender dysphoria came from.

[PaulaQ]

All too often I wind up reading about someone's transgender tale, and the thing that sticks out the most is that they want so much to be female....just because. Without much self introspection at all. Just that they really believe that they feel like a female.

Actually, some of the most believable and authentic stories I've heard are from trans* people who've always just "known". No questions, no introspection - they just know who they are really supposed to be.

One only needs a lot of introspection if you are massively in denial about who they really are. (Don't feel bad, if so, because society gives you lotsa reason for denial!)

[Thea Pauline]

I sometimes have to remind myself that I'm actually chatting to men and when I remember this, I freak out a little, lol.

I guess one way of looking at this would be to recognize that with a TS, you're not talking to men and this comment might be seen by some to be trans phobic. On the other hand, would it make sense to examine what constitutes ones' filters for male and female characteristics? Perhaps, like a Turing test for a computer, what specifically allows a conversation with no gender cues to pass the GG to GG communication criteria without detection?

[Jorja]

Crossdressers are chasing after something they want to capture . Transsexuals are not chasing but being pursued as if they are being haunted.

In all my years I do not think I have heard it explained so accurately.

[Zylia]

Anyway, on a side note, I read something the other week that mentioned the male identified crossdresser is actually more masculine in appearance when crossdressed than not. Male features often stand out more in female clothing than male, and really, this can be true. Apparently (and this is just what I read!) many quietly enjoy this outcome as they KNOW they're male and that's pretty much the point - accentuating the gender/sex difference.
Interesting side note nonetheless. One would think that a more masculine appearance is caused by the cross-dresser's skill level and how pronounced the particular masculine features really are, not so much by how they identify. However, it rings true in the sense that those who dress "for the clothes" might care more about wearing certain items and care less about conveying their (nonexistent) femininity.

As for the umpteenth attempt to specify this whole TS vs. CD thing: I don't feel like they're two sides of the same coin, insofar that many cross-dressers have more in common with cisgender people in terms of gender, or can be considered cisgender for most intents and purposes.

[flatlander_48]

Many years ago psychological research led to the discovery that there is a spectrum, regarding sexuality, with completely heterosexual at one end and completely homosexual at the other with an infinite number of stops along the way. Similarly, we could apply this to the transgender spectrum; crossdressers at one end and post-op transsexuals at the other. There would still be an infinite number of stops along the way.

While all of us have gender disphoria to some extent, for crossdressers it is satisfied by underdressing or being completely en femme and going out in public or somewhere in between. However, at the other end of the spectrum, there is a severe psychological/physical mismatch that MUST be corrected. Mere crossdressing will not satisfy this need.

In most places, the process of transitioning requires considerable time, reflection and evaluation. For some it is obvious as to what needs to happen. For others, going through the process helps to clarify and crystalize what living as, and being, the opposite sex would do for them.

Anyway, this is what all of us probably face at some point. Are we comfortable as we are, or do we need to align the person we are with how we present? There is no shortcut to this answer and everyone's situation is just a bit different so it is hard to generalize.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Leigh, To each their own, I never had any thoughts about TS, I am absolutely happy just being a CD, I feel that I have the best of both worlds.:daydreaming:

[cassandra54]

I've looked through a few responses to this post and decided to edit mine. I was the only boy when I lived with my mother and two older sisters, and the only boy when I lived with my father, stepmother and four stepsisters. I remember when I was four or five, my older sisters dressed me up. I thought it was great and wished they never stopped. Later on, I would try on my stepsister's clothes from time to time. But there was more about me than just that.

Like some others, I was never really happy about my identity as a male. I believe in reincarnation and believe that 1. I was a female in a previous lifetime and 2. I would like to be a female in my next. I think it would be awesome if I just woke up one morning and was female. I would also consider the possibility of having the bottom end of a female transplanted into my body if there ever was such a thing. With the advances in anti-aging, it would be cool to have lived the first sixty years of my life as a male and the next 40 or 50 as a female. But.

But, but, but, but. While I was never happy with my identity as a male, who I was or how I fit into society, it took me many years to realize that I was a very unique and special person. I realize that I don't fit in as "one of the guys" and never will. I'm not good at or into sports, I'm not full of that masculine bravado that many men have and while I've been in charge of people when I worked, I could never be a dominate person. In a lot of ways, I act like a woman, but I've learned to embrace that. I think it's very liberating to have traveled to the very ends of one's soul and discover who you really are. Yes I love acting and dressing and acting like a woman, but at the same time I've learned to love the very special male that I am.

I started cross dressing on a very regular basis about four years ago. What I realized is that it's just fun. Pure and simple. I don't get dressed unless I dress all the way. A lot of times it takes an effort to do it, but I feel good about the result. I've gotten pretty good at makeup and putting outfits together. I plan on going out in public a lot more this year, since I am retired and just find this part of life so enjoyable.

My last girlfriend passed away in January. We weren't really a couple, we were more like brother and sister, or actually like sister and sister. She was not happy about me dressing, but she was certainly supportive of it. She helped me with a lot of things, including how to look, dress and act like a lady. Mind you like a lady my age and background would act. She didn't do it so much by telling me anything, but I learned watching and learning her attitudes. I learned how to manage money, take care of a home, shop, travel and do so many things that women seem to have a lock on. I kept some of her clothes that fit me. I had some of her rings re-sized and wear them in her honor. I also had my ears pierced and wear some of the earrings she go while we went on vacation in Mexico.

The last thing I can tell you is this. Be honest about who you are, what you believe in and your desires and dreams and above all keep an open mind. I was and still am. And because of that 2014 will be the best year ever of my life. I met a new girl and I told her about myself after about a month. She is accepting so far, and even encouraging me to get my ears pierced and so on. She even did my makeup and nails this week. But as the old saying goes, "If something is too good to be true, it usually is." I could be very lucky to have met this lady, but then again she might have ulterior motives. In the meantime, I'm being cautious with my hear and keeping an open mind and enjoying the time we have.

[JamieG]

You are a crossdresser if you experience women as "the other gender". This is a very male thing to do. In general men who are not misogynisitic and who are or have been sexually interested in women relate to them in very specific ways.

...


While I agree that there are some good nuggets of wisdom here, I think some of the comments about crossdressers do not ring true for me (speaking as a CD). The problem is that the realities of gender are not as simple as most of the world would like to think. A great model is the "genderbread person" ( http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/03/the-genderbread-person-v2-0/ ). This breaks down our understanding of gender into four components: gender identity, gender expression, biological sex, and who one is attracted to. Each one is a sliding scale, not a binary distinction.

Now what follows, is just my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt: when we use the word transexual, we mean someone who's gender identity is strongly opposite to their biological sex. They may or may not choose a very feminine gender expression. A crossdressder is someone who's biological sex is on the male end of the spectrum, gender expression is (at times, possibly only behind closed doors) very feminine, and who's gender identity is either more man or somewhere near the middle. Personally, I feel that I fit in the middle, and have come to think that the term "bi-gendered" describes me well. I think a lot of the other CDs on this forum are in a similar place, and this may be what Tinkerbell is noticing when she says it feels "like a fellow GG writing."

Jamie

[sometimes_miss]

, we could apply this to the transgender spectrum; crossdressers at one end and post-op transsexuals at the other. There would still be an infinite number of stops along the way..
This is what so many simply cannot accept. It seems that almost everyone wants to define exactly what makes someone a crossdresser, and what makes someone TG/TS. As if you can't be anywhere in the middle. And yet, there appear to be so many of us in the middle somewhere. There are clearly feelings and thoughts that put me on both ends of the spectrum. So why must I decide to be either one or the other?

[MonicaJean]

In all my years I do not think I have heard it explained so accurately.

Where is the "like" button?

[Tina_gm]

Or...... maybe CDers are in the same basic spectrum but not fully on the female side. For many of us, perhaps we are somewhere in the middle and incorporate both genders?? @paulaQ#9 this illustrates how there is a difference between CDrs and TS's in that TS women talk most about what they don't like about being male vs how much they do like about being female, or feminine. @Tinkerbell#11.... then again, your husband and me are quite different also. I do not idolize women much. I admire them, sometimes even feel jealous and envious of them in ways, but they can irritate me often times too, the way women irritate men. My wife finds that I can irritate her by both being too much like a woman and being a regular guy. She also has stated that certain aspects of both she finds tolerable and even attractive. (not in a physical sense) but there are certain feminine aspects she does actually enjoy. and masculine ones as well.

[Aubrey lee]

Love this thread! Such a topic is near and dear to my heart. I have dressed from a very young age up to now 28. I always knew there was something different about me. At a young age I often wished I had been born a girl. I had no clue what was wrong with me and why I had these thoughts I just felt so out of place in my body. As I aged I began to feel a great amount of shame and buried my thoughts and feelings under my male persona. College, Hunting, fishing, sports, girlfriends.... None of which I particularly cared for. I just participated because I thought that was what was expected of me as a MAN. After college I struggled to find my place in the world. 6 years later I am finally in a stable career I love, with a very loving and accepting girlfriend. Yet I still feel something is missing. I am still not happy with myself as a man. I am currently stuck somewhere in the middle. I now know and have accepted I am female at heart. I recently came out to my gf as trans and there has been some difficulty with the topic. How far will I take this I don't know. Cd or trans the line is blending more and more with each passing day. I'm hoping to start hrt soon!

[devida]

As far as I am concerned the difference between me and most cross dressers is that I feel and have felt since puberty a discomfort with and dislike of identifying as male. From my reading here it seems most mtf cross dressers are content with being males but have a need to present sometimes as female. The reason I did not cross dress most of my life and did not consider myself trans anything but just suffered what to me was the ugliness, psychological and physical, of being a man, was that I did not realize until a few years ago that there was an alternative that did not require I become or even present as a woman. I never wanted to be a woman, I disliked being a man. I tended to prefer women to men and I certainly preferred the way women dressed and presented their gender to the way that men did but it seemed to me there were as many problems with identifying as a woman as a man. Well, maybe not quite as many.

Fortunately I was not alone and over the last couple of decades a vocabulary, a theoretical base, a psychological approach and even fashion has developed to recognize, identify and even celebrate people between the binaries of male and female. As far as the general population recognizing non binary, genderqueer or bi-gendered folk it might be a race to see who will be accepted first - cross dressers or the non binary. Transsexuals, to whom cross dressers and the non binary should be forever grateful, are working extremely hard for transgender rights and transgender acceptance. We all benefit from this even if we do not identify as trans.

I am very curious about the conceptual invisibility of non binary people on this forum. Very few posters seem to realize that gender identity really is a spectrum and to think and to talk always in the phrasing of the binaries of male and female skews the discussions continuously towards stereotypes. The way that very many people, particularly women and nowadays many young men present their gender identities is a mix of male and female in dress, gesture and psychology. As GGs on this forum frequently note, the way that many mtf cross dressers regard femininity has little to do with the actual lives of women and a lot to do with their conceptualized ideals of what a woman is.

The OP's question, and forgive me LeighR if this is not true, seems to presuppose that discomfort with one's gender requires acceptance and transition to another through gender reassignment surgery and/or HRT; or a dogged acceptance and resignation to one's gender as described by what one has between one's legs. But I would suggest that the majority of people who feel gender dysphoria go as far as they need to to overcome this dysphoria and that increasing numbers inhabit a gender and express a gender that is not quite at the binary. I think you will find this more common with ftm trans people than mtf but I read of and see images of trans people all the time who who are not presenting or trying to pass as a gender that was not the one assigned to them at birth. Even in this little town I see plenty of people like this although doubt that if I pull them to one side and demand to know if they are trans they will be anything but baffled. When I go to cities I am surrounded by young people of indeterminate gender and more than a few older ones.

Gender identity and expression is much more subtle and complicated than many of the discussions here would suggest. Perhaps this is a result of the population posting here being over 35. Perhaps it is a normal result of a certain exclusionary thinking that often occurs when people closely identify themselves with a group. Perhaps cross dressers are actually highly gender conforming within their cross dressing. I don't know.

[Tina_gm]

It seems to me that the simplest breakdown of the difference is cd's are interested in doing things or adding things to increase femininity. Ts women think more about removing that which is masculine. At least this is my observation.

[Angela Campbell]

Just a few points,

1 a ts isn't a man who wants to be a woman. She is a woman. (Or a man if f2m)

2 if you aren't ts you cannot understand it at all.

3 if you aren't ts thank your lucky stars

[Nadya]

In light of what others have said, I had been obsessed with trying to understand what category I fall under or what group of people I should socialize with here. My personal experience has shown me that this isn't something that really matters to me. I am grateful to all of those that are more open to the public about what they do and I hope to be in that position someday. I am grateful to all of those on this forum for the kind of acceptance I can't get in my own personal life regardless of where they may fall on the gender spectrum. Maybe it is my own ignorance but I don't understand why we obsess over our titles or categories anymore. We are all on the same side here. We can all fight for rights of this community at the ballot box or promote understanding without outing ourselves by treating everyone with respect and courtesy. Uniting is a far better idea than trying to define these categories that are dynamic and come in such a diverse spectrum. Was I ranting? I think I was ranting. Haha. :P

[Tina_gm]

Angela, I disagree that not being a TS leads to no understanding at all. Granted, there are certain things about TS that I will not be able to understand, like how almost all TS have a strong dislike of their genitalia. Or how many will go to any length in order to become the opposite sex that they were born as. My observation has been that generally it seems that TS are more concerned with shedding the male, whereas CDers tend to desire to add female elements to their existing existence. Probably because internally TS are already comfortable about their internal femininity, so it is a matter of shedding what they do not like or want.

With Gender lets say men are RED and women are YELLOW, But then some have a little bit of yellow to mostly red and they are red orange. Then an equal mix and you have orange, then mostly yellow and you have yellow orange. I think that those of us who have varieties of orange, will have some understanding. Maybe not a full understanding, but some.

[Michelle789]

The reality is that gender dysphoria can manifest itself in many ways, and all our stories are different. There are lots of common things we share, and any one of us who are TS will share lots of things in common with other TSes when it comes to GD, but not necessarily everything.

Also, it often takes lots of introspection and hindsight to break down the walls built as we were in denial to see the truth about ourselves.

I announced to my parents at the age of 5 that I was a girl, and my parents made it very clear to me that I was a boy. I learned from that day onward that I should never vocalize anything with regards to my gender identity.

I wanted to grow up to be a woman at age 8, but I never felt I could tell anyone because I thought people would think I was crazy.

At the age of 8, I became jealous of girls. I wanted to be seen as one of them, and to dress like them. I wanted to wear pretty dresses, makeup, and women's shoes.

From age 13 onward, I identified with female characters on TV shows and movies, but I could never talk about that with anyone because I felt like they wouldn't get it. Afterall, I am supposed to be a boy, and boys and girls are fundamentally different, so if I felt like a girl no one would get it and they would think I am crazy.

From age 13 onward, I had recurrent deep feelings that I am really a girl on the inside, but once again could never talk to anyone about this. Everyone would think I was crazy, and no one would understand. If I told anyone they would be very worried about me that something was seriously wrong with me.

From age 13 onward, I hated my body hair, my beard, and thought my body was the most disgusting, repulsive thing in the world. I felt that even if I could be hairless, that my body would still the most repulsive thing in the world.

I wore women's clothes privately from the age of 13 onward. Once again, I took every effort to make sure I would never get caught, and I never got caught.

From age 13 onward, whenever I saw a good looking girl, I wished I could be her. Unlike men, who want to sleep with her.

My parents noticed feminine mannerisms in me when I was a kid and a teenager, and I learned to repress those so that no one would ever figure out that I had gender issues.

When I had crushes on girls, I felt an emotional attachment to them rather than a desire to have sex with them. I felt like and wanted to be equal.

I would frequently fantasize about being a woman having sex with a man, yet I would claim to be a straight man.

I didn't even know what the word transgender was until the age of 22. I became fascinated with sex changes when I first heard about them as a teenager, although my first impression of a sex change was Liz Carmichael, a wanted fugitive featured on Unsolved Mysteries, so I thought that I must be a con artist in order to transition, so I shoved it down even more.

Every time I bought men's clothes, which were obviously from the men's section, I would have to ask my mom or the store clerk if they were men's clothes. I was so afraid that if I chose women's clothes that people would figure me out.

Every time I heard a story about transition, from age 22 onwards, I felt like I understood them, they understood me, and that I seriously wanted the opportunity to transition myself. I felt like transition was not in the cards for me due to life circumstances of being financially dependent on my father while in grad school.

I got my own apartment at age 22, and continued to dress as a girl privately, behind closed doors, for many years. I thought I was a closet crossdresser, and I hoped to keep it that way.

At age 30, my mom once told me that I had a deep man's voice. I was internally crushed. I looked down my hands and fingers and I felt like I saw slime pouring down my hands and fingers. My hands and fingers looked and felt really gross at that moment. A similar moment happened in 2013 when a GG kept pointing out how she's a woman and I'm a man.

Every time I read about crossdressers, I never could relate to the part about crossdressers being men who like to wear women's clothes.

Society told me that I am a man, and I blindly accepted what society told me. It was like society handed me a script, and said to follow it. I followed it as best as I could, but it was incredibly difficult for me to do so. I especially couldn't follow the lines about dating, relationships, and marriage.

When a psychic I used to consult for personal help started pressuring me into dating and marriage, I buckled. I became suicidal and prayed to God every day that I would die and be reincarnated as a woman in my next life and all lifetimes thereafter - every day from November, 2011, until August, 2013.

I dreaded having to "man up for real" and being a married man without even occasional crossdressing would be torture for me. Even the thought of being in a relationship with a woman who accepted CDers didn't appeal to me, because I would have to pretend to be the man that I am not, and go against my own fundamental nature.

Even though I fooled many people and people took me for being a regular man, I feel like some people subconsciously sensed the girl in me, leading some to tease me about being gay or a girl. This also lead to men not asking me to sponsor them in AA. This lead to women feeling a level of comfort around me that they would normally get around another woman. They might have not seen anything overtly feminine, but I feel they sensed it on a very subconscious level.

When I came out to my home group on Friday and showed myself as Michelle for the first time, three people told me that I was the most relaxed they had ever seen me in the entire 7 years they had known me. When one of them, a middle aged man, saw me for the first time as my authentic self, he told me that I "look real". The same guy later told me that in all the years he knew me, he felt that I appeared stiff, unrelaxed, and as if I was hiding something; as if I was keeping some big secret.

So yeah, I always knew, but I was in denial. I built up walls to repress myself, including the closet CDing wall. Now I am tearing down those walls and realizing that I did in fact know all along. But I did what I had to do to adhere to the script. I guess I could follow the male script until I got to the romance scene, then I realized I could no longer fake it.

I am in my first ever relationship, with a transgender man, who knew me only as Michelle. Sometimes I doubt if he is the right man for me, but at least now I am willing to try a relationship. If he's not the right one, I will find someone else.

Now I am no longer following any script, and I refuse to follow any more scripts. This includes the "soccer mom" script.