Hatred, Bigotry, and how I was Assaulted. "Can I see your vagina?"

[Anne2345]

It was a beautifully gorgeous weekend day. The sun was shining brilliantly overhead in a magnificently blue colored sky, and the temperature was just right for a late-summer August day.

It was early in the afternoon, and I was with my best friend and his nine year old son at a very well attended public festival in downtown Roanoke, Virginia.

We had just arrived, and I very much looked forward to spending the next several hours enjoying myself and the company of my friend among the festival-goers.

The festival was packed, but very well organized. The sounds of live music, laughter, and children running around here and there, having a boat-load of fun, filled the air.

The pleasing and mouth-watering aromas of various food vendors promising the offer of delicious and delightful goodies and tasty fare wafted through the breeze.

And it was one such aroma – the scent of funnel cakes being freshly deep fried – that caught the attention of my friend’s son about ten minutes after we paid our admission fare and walked through the makeshift festival gates of the downtown park.

So we dove head first into a sea of various vendors and a ton of folk enjoying themselves and having wonderful times in search of funnel cake.

With my friend and his son well in the lead, I was following behind, taking my time, and just enjoying the moment. I didn’t have a care in the world, and I felt awesome and alive. Life was good, and the afternoon promised much fun!

Kind of drifting here and there, taking it all in, and casually noticing that my friend and his son off in the distance had found the funnel cake vendor and taken their place in line, I resumed my walk to catch up.

Not two steps after I made my move towards the funnel cake vendor, however, I heard someone yell from behind me.

“CAN I SEE YOUR VAGINA?!!!”

I stopped immediately in my tracks. With a sinking feeling and a pit in my stomach, I turned around and scanned the crowd for the fellow that had yelled the question. Although I didn’t know who the question had been directed at, I had a pretty good suspicion about who the victim of such an inappropriate question may have been.

And scanning through the crowd, it did not take long at all to find him.

About twenty-five feet or so away, there he was, just standing there, glaring directly at me. Even from that distance, I could see clearly in his eyes a deep and fiery hatred, contempt, disgust, and animosity he held against me. It was unsettling.

Staring directly at me, knowing full well that he had my attention in that moment, he yelled again at me.

“YEAH, YOU!! I’M TALKING TO YOU!! CAN I SEE YOUR VAGINA??!!”

Standing with him were about eight or nine of his male companion friends. They were all looking at me and laughing. There were many random people between me and them, including children, going to and fro, doing this, that and whatever else.

These men had no qualms or any hesitation whatsoever about viciously calling me out and verbally attacking me so publicly for all to see and witness.

And in that moment, that moment of staring directly at the person who would seek to subjugate and destroy me, that person who would strip me of my dignity, self-esteem, and validity as a human being, I just snapped.

Maintaining my composure, and tightly reigning in my emotions and anger, while remaining mindful of those around me, I immediately shot back, allowing each word to drip with disgust and an empowering sense of great offense taken.

“SERIOUSLY??! ARE YOU SERIOUS??!!”

Undeterred in the least, my assailant continued the attack.

“LEAVE! GET OUT OF HERE! GO AWAY! NO ONE WANTS YOU HERE! YOU’RE AN ‘IT!’ YOU’RE A FREAK!! GO GET OUT OF HERE NOW!!!”

And with that, I calmly started walking straight to him and his buddies. Being wrapped up completely in the moment, and focused exclusively on the haters, the festival and the folks around us blurred quickly into the background.

As I continued to walk towards my assailant, how took note of a prominent bruise on my left bicep that I received from playing basketball.

“HEROIN ADDICT!! LOOK AT THE TRANNY HEROIN ADDICT WHO HAS THE TRACK MARKS!! YOU’RE A HEROIN ADDICT!!” he accused.

I completed my walk to him, and placed myself directly in front of him, with all of his friends immediately to my right.

Viscerally aware that I was in a very public place surrounded by a lot of people, yet otherwise completely oblivious to my surroundings due to my exclusive focus on the haters, I attempted to shame him by very loudly questioning him as to why he attempt to hurt me so with such hateful and mean-spirited words.

In response, he told me to leave him alone. I repeated my question just as loudly, if not even louder, several more times as he continued to tell me to leave him alone.

Getting nothing further from my assailant than continued demands for me to leave him alone, I turned from him to his friends.

Looking directly at each and every one of them, I addressed them collectively and loudly as a whole.

“DO YOU AGREE WITH HIM? DO YOU AGREE WITH HOW HE IS TREATING ME??! WHY WOULD YOU ALL TRY TO HURT ME SO??!! WHY ARE YOU ALL BEING SO HATEFUL TO ME??!” I demanded to know.

Each one, each and every one of them, averted their eyes from me and looked away. Not even one of these jerks had it in them to look me in the face. Not one of them had it in them to look me in the eye. Not one of them even had it within them to even say anything at all. They just stood there looking like big, giant goofballs. They looked as if they would rather be anywhere else on the planet in that moment.

But their leader, sensing that they had backed down and completely withered when challenged and confronted, picked back up.

In a voice much lower, and one meant only for me to hear, he threatened me.

“You better leave now or there is going to be trouble.”

With the same, low voice, he also threatened that he would beat my ass.

I looked him straight in the eyes. I could see the writing clearly etched on his face. If I didn’t leave right then, he was going to hit me.

The thing is, though, I wasn’t go to leave. I wasn’t going to back down. And I was going to let him punch me right in my face.
Because no matter what he did to me, he could not even begin to inflict the depth and the intensity of the pain and hurt I have inflicted upon myself in the past.

And in so allowing him to hit me, I was going to expose him before his worthless, shameful cadre of friends and a festival full of people for the pitiful, weak, disgraceful, hateful, little man that he was and is.

Right then, though, in that moment immediately before the situation escalated further, a warm body from behind that I could not see and was completely unaware of gently wrapped her arms around me. I turned my head around to view the person holding me, and it was a woman I had never met before. With great tenderness and an unexpected depth of compassion, she led me away from the hateful bigots, all the while telling me that *nobody* around us agreed with them and their vile brand of hatred.

She also told me I am a beautiful woman, and that no one can take that away from me.

When we were a safe distance away, she gave me a big, giant, long hug. I hugged her back, all the while fighting back my tears. I did not want to let go of this angel ever. She was so sweet. She was so kind. She said all of the right things. She treated me as the person I am. And she risked inserting herself into the confrontation to help me out. She was a complete stranger, a person that I had never before met. I don't even know her name. Yet there she was, representing all that is good in the world in opposition to all that is bad in the world.

Unfortunately, though, this is life. These things happen, and much, much worse things this happen all throughout the world everyday. Fortunately such a worse result wasn't the case here.

Still, as far as I am concerned, all of these jackholes, and everyone like them, can go **** themselves.

Besides. They ain’t got nothing on me anymore, anyways. I am not afraid of them because I finally believe enough in myself to stand up for what is right. And god damn it!! At least on *this* issue I am on the side of right!! I mean, I have worked my butt off to get to where I am at right now, and I am not going to allow anyone to take this away from me.

Even so, it did hit me and shake me up some after the fact. But not so bad, though.

And although it may be true that I did allow this experience to ruin the event for me, and I will admit to replaying the incident in my head about a gazillion times up until about 3:00 am in the morning when I finally was able to feel asleep (lol), I did manage to put it behind me when it counted most. And as a result, the remainder of the weekend was absolutely outstanding, and I was able to have a great visit with my best buddy and his family.

But just in case anyone was wondering where my friend was during all of this, well, he showed up late, and right as the woman who had pulled me out of the fire and I had just parted ways. His son was right by his side, and had a big, giant, sugar-powder covered funnel cake in hand.

“What was that about?” my friend asked me, having missed it all for a funnel cake . . . . :-P

[GabbiSophia]

That sucks anne sorry to hear that the event took suck a crappy turn. I am glad you didn't get physical harm.

[Brianna_H]

Wow. Just wow.

I'm so proud of you for standing up to them. That took a lot of courage, even more to keep your cool enough to handle it so well. I would have either run in fear or gotten just as filthy as them. You stayed classy and just shamed them. So strong.

It's good you were in a public place. The news has too many items about transsexuals who get assaulted and killed with little inquiry. Sounds like you have a basically good community, but please watch out for those assholes. I'm a little scared for you. Young men can be really vindictive snots when they get their blood up.

Very clearly written, too. My heart was racing as I read.

Stay safe.

Edit: Also, on behalf of decent people everywhere, I'm really sorry assholes like this still exist and that you had to experience this.

[Suzanne F]

Anne
Thanks for sharing your painful experience. I know that feeling and the fear of being pointed out and made fun of by men. That fear had kept me in the closet for my whole life. Your story reminds me that I will face those ugly men from this point forward. I will not let those kind of people make me hide myself anymore. I will look them right in the eye. I will give everyone around me the choice of how they will treat the real me. Not the made up version I presented all of these years. I hope you realize that you were a courageous human being in that moment. You should be applauded so don't beat yourself up!
Love
Suzanne

[RenneB]

Wow... what a wow event. I'm not sure I could have restrained myself. From where I'm from, there would have been some serious issues going down with that moment. Thankfully you were rescued... what a great moment that was.

Thanks for sharing...... I'm sure it would have taken a lot longer for me to calm down.....

Renne.....

[LeaP]

As it happens, the last time I went to The Big E (Eastern States Exposition) in Springfield, MA, there was a knock-down, dragout fight hard by the funnel cake stand. I didn't recognize you, though, and I think I'll avoid funnel cake stands in the future.

If there's one thing that's crystal clear in this incident, it's that the membership has been dead wrong in the frequent assertion that you will never be subjected to a panty check. It seems that to certain carny-goers, it's a thang.

I'm truly delighted for you that violence was averted AND that the (potential) resulting incident and arrests didn't make the news. It's the kind of story that gets widely disseminated, you know? "Giant Tranny Defeats Rowdy Punk Crowd at Carnival!".

Don't discount the possibility that your angel was an actual angel. EVERYONE likes a fair and even angels get a break once in a while.

Ya done good and I am impressed in so many ways it's hard to list them. You rock!

[Bria]

Anne, your story brought tears to my eyes, I'm so sorry that you were subjected to common vulgar stupid idiot (can't think of any more ) a**holes. I thank god for the lady that threw her protective arms around you!!

I also must commend you for taking control of the situation to the extent that you were able, I also thank God that you were not physically hurt and I hope that the hurt to your inner self will heal quickly.

I think that all who water here need to take sober notice of this event and do as Isha advised us some time ago to have your escape plan in place at all times.

Hugs, Bria

[Cheyenne Skye]

While the others may be applauding you for your actions, I believe you took a great risk in confronting those troglodytes. If that woman hadn't stepped in when she did , you might have wound up in the hospital. I am glad no one got hurt, but if I were in that situation, I would have turned and walked away.

[Angela Campbell]

Not good, but hard to avoid sometimes. I am not sure how I would have responded to the request, then again if it was boobs they wanted to see. ......

[steftoday]

I'm so sorry this happened to you, Anne.
We have some real assholes around certain parts of this state.
My sincerest apologies on behalf of the non Neanderthal residents of Virginia.
Amazingly enough, the Richmond area is one of the most tolerant around for gay and trans folk.

[Jill_cd]

Wow! Despite this being the 21st Century there is still the hatred and bigotry from 100 years ago. I've been out a few times, but I've stayed away from public places, except for a now closed fetish-lingerie store, for fear of the very same experience you've described. Thank you for confronting these idiots. They're cowards and don't like it when someone stands up to them. I'm planning on living my femme life to the fullest and I hope and pray that when out and about dressed as Jill I never experience what happened to you. I'm in the Washington DC/NOVA metro area, so maybe the knuckle-draggers won't give me any grief. If so, I pray I have the guts you showed to confront. I'm very happy that a total stranger came to your aid. In spite of her intervention, you ARE my heroine.

[Jorja]

How many times have I told you to keep away from the funnel cake stand, Anne? Well, at least you let them know who is the T-1000 Killer Dinosaur! Glad you didn't get hurt in the altercation and can live for another day.

[Dianne S]

Wow, that was an awful experience, although the actions of the woman who helped you restore my faith in humanity.

I think the transgender movement is about where the gay rights movement was 30 years ago, so we have a lot of hard work ahead of us and will probably suffer a lot of hatred on the way.

[Leah Lynn]

I think you are amazing! No doubt the gang had to retreat to a watering hole to bolster their manhood, and imagine a different ending to their embarassment.

Perhaps you could light a candle and thank your angel....

Leah

[whowhatwhen]

I just want to say I admire your colossal metaphorical balls for standing up for yourself.
:)

Can you describe him?
How old was the woman who intervened?

[LeaP]

Not good, but hard to avoid sometimes. I am not sure how I would have responded to the request, then again if it was boobs they wanted to see. ......

That COMPLETELY cracked me up!

Cheyenne, maybe so, and you can't count on outcomes, but you need to know that Anne is very tall, rock hard fit, and can project a commanding presence. She can take care of herself, and she can take it. One of the most impressive things in this story, however, is that she did NOT resort to male aggression. She projected a woman's outrage.

[RADER]

Anne;
You are a brave person to walk up to a bunch of Knuckleheads like that.
You did a lot more than I could or would have. I most likely would have looked
for a security type person to try for some form of help.
You are the best.
Rader

[Dana does shopping]

You are a brave woman firmly on the side of 'right' bravo to You!!!!

[flatlander_48]

Sad to say that there's too many people out there with the intellect of a bread crust. And even sadder, they seem to be multiplying...

[Marleena]

Anne I'm sorry you had to endure that disgusting behavior and glad it ended well for you. That lady truly was a "guardian angel" and diffused the situation. This is also a sad reminder that we can be easy targets for these intolerant aholes. I fear this guy and his buddies would not have let up on you had you just ignored them. I think I would have crapped myself if this had happened to me.

[arbon]

Yikes! What a hard thing to go through. So many mean people in this world. Glad you are alright.

[GenieGirl]

So sorry to hear about your experience. I'm glad you were strong enough to stand up to the ignorance and hate and glad you ended up ok. It is so great to hear that there was someone brave enough to show their compassion towards you out of a crowd who would do nothing. I would have done the same if I were in your shoes or the female bystander. I hope those idiots or at least the silent spectators gained something from that experience and I am glad you were ok and hopefully you become a stronger woman from the experience.

Ginger

[Princess Grandpa]

Hug

I'm so sorry you had to deal with this. I'm so glad you didn't get hurt!

Hug
Rita

[Andy66]

So sad that this sort of thing happens. Im glad youre okay, and so proud of you. Its clear that youve come a long way. :hugs:

[Badtranny]

This is why I make a distinction between those who transition and those who don't.

It ain't about what's on the inside. It's about those *******s on the outside.

[Rachel Mari]

Jeez, what an intense moment for you. I’m glad that physical violence didn’t happen and you weren’t hurt.

I do the same thing after experiencing something that has a strongly felt impact on me. I keep replaying it in my head over and over and over, and have the hardest time trying to sleep. Usually takes me about a day before I can drop it and let it go.

It was absolutely beautiful that a woman, who you’ve never even met, stood up for you, pushed them out of the picture and then focused on your feelings. She was truly an angel.

[PaulaQ]

I'm really sorry this happened Anne, but I think the way you handled it was empowering. It was also kind of dangerous - thank God that there are good people in the world, and that one showed up right at that moment!

I don't blame you one bit for confronting them, I'd have done much the same.

Some people are so cruel, while others are so kind. It's astounding, isn't it, how often we inspire both the best and worst of human nature?

[Stephanie47]

And, your story is exactly why every state should pass hate crime legislation to make it an offense to harass or worse a person for their sexual identity. In Washington State gays, lesbians, transgenders and cross dressers are covered by hate crime legislation. Even if a person does not agree with a person's personal lifestyle that does not give him the right to infringe upon your person.

[stefan37]

Unfortunately this is a common occurrence. Anybody that is actively transitioning has had to deal with very similar situations. Prejudices and hate will be with us for a long time. Had this occurred in a more private venue and could have ended very tragic.

Anne I will tell you as you progress these occurrences will become rare. Early transition is a very brutal place. As you become more confident, and polished you will mostly go unnoticed and those that do notice may not know for sure and will stay quiet. I say this from experience.

As far as being commanding and rock hard fit. Unless one is highly trained and experienced in martial arts. Taking on multiple opponents will not end well.

[donnalee]

I think that at one point or another in our lives we reach a point where we realize that we are done putting up with it, we are done with ignoring trespasses against us for the sake of peace and choose to face it head-on and not back down or ignore it anymore; it's like a switch flips on inside us. This is not exclusive to males, but essential to any of us.
You have made that decision, Anne, and I applaud you for it. I also think the woman who swooped in to help you was wonderful and must have made a similar decision.

[PretzelGirl]

Anne, I hurt that you had to go through that and am very happy that you got to experience the tenderness of the lady. The tide is turning and the numbers that become bullies are less, but they will never go away. I am proud of you as this speaks to where you are in self acceptance. Would you have done this 1-2 years ago? Only you know.

[kimdl93]

There is a certain subclass, or subspecies, that seems to feel that it has a right to impose it's venal, narrow minded, hatred on the world. Crude, simple minded thugs...I bet that guy felt really powerful when he was shouting out his crude remarks. But your willingness to confront his evil and the woman's the kind and courageous have changed the world. Sure, that cretin will still be out there looking for Someone else to bully, but his associates, those bright enough to perceive, saw him exposed for what he is.

Thank you for standing up to him.

[Julie Denier]

Good for you for standing your ground. The zenith of colossal idiocy is someone who has nothing better to do than to harass and threaten someone else who is not causing them any harm, or even has any impact on how they go about their own daily life. Someone who considers their lot in life so bad that they need to terrorize others would do better to channel that energy into improving themselves.

[Patty B.]

Just like to say well done and a guardian angel also, brings me to tears. Best wished in the future and this kind of treatment subsides as time goes on.

[trisha kobichenko]

well played. some things will change, some won't. all we can do is be who we are.

[Sara Jessica]

Good gosh Anne. It isn't often I read any thread here and find my heart rate increasing seemingly exponentially as the events unfold. I felt as if I was there, mostly because your initial reaction was exactly what was racing through my mind. From there, it becomes a blur as fear took hold and I cannot say if my own choices would have been the same as yours. I was truly afraid of what the outcome might have been.

Regardless, thank God you came through physically safe. Emotionally? This will be a difficult one to shake off. I guess one way is to chalk one up to experience that should make you stronger for it. Your Angel was just that, a wonderful example of humanity who demonstrated such strength to match yours in the face of such hatred. She rescued you but as I'm sure you are well aware, there is no guarantee she'll be there if there ever is a next time. Please be careful out there.

[Rogina B]

I will play the "contrarian"[?]...Had you not turned around to see the source of the verbal assault,do you think he would have chased you through the crowd shouting about a vagina? I kind of doubt it.Had they followed you and continued shouting,probably someone else would have gotten offended and it probably would have stopped.I am not sure how many GG's would have turned around and turned against someone for words alone..I am quite sure that I would have kept on my course.

[Eryn]

Rogina, I agree. Life is too short to validate the thoughts of bigoted people by engaging with them.

Folks are free to do as they wish, but I'd much prefer to interact with the 99.9 percent of the public that accept me than the 0.1% who do not.

I'd have just kept going and enjoyed the rest of my day. Escalating the situation through public confrontation put the idiot in the spot where he had to himself escalate the situation to threats of violence. It could have ended very badly.

[Anne2345]

I am not sure how many GG's would have turned around and turned against someone for words alone..I am quite sure that I would have kept on my course.

I can tell you *exactly* how many GGs would have turned around, Rogina. Zero. Exactly zero.

Because those weren't calling out a GG. They were calling out a tranny. They were calling out me. They were calling me out precisely because I am *not* a GG.

There were a bazillion GGs there, Rogina. Although I didn't conduct an exit poll, I doubt even ONE GG who attended the festival (of the thousands and thousands of GGs that day came and went), were asked by some random douchebag to show their vagina.

As for how an actual GG would have responded under like circumstances, how completely presumptuous of you to assume it would not be as I did. From what I know of you, you yourself are NOT a GG. But if it makes you feel *more* like a GG to ignore it and walk away, then by all means do so.

It is also naive, though, and completely unreasonable, to believe and suggest that all GGs would simply ignore crap and walk away. Just like the reactions of men vary widely, so do those of women. Different strokes for different folks, my friend.

Still, WTF??!! This is basic prejudice, discrimination, and assault 101. Should I just roll over, give in to their hatred, and let it go unchecked??! Should I let them have their fun at my expense??! Should I let them point me out in front of all those around me as different?!!

What about blacks, Hispanics, the elderly, gay folk, GGs, the poor, the handicapped, the big, the small, the green, the purple, and whoever else is perceived as different??! Should they also rollover and not fight for themselves??!! Or is it just ME that shouldn't?!!

God forbid the trannies rise up and actually fight for their humanity, their rights, and their place at the goddamned table!! Because that's not what GGs would do. They would ignore shit and walk away.

Except that is NOT what they would do. Women's rights. Voting. Pay equity. Birth control issues. Leadership positions. Math. Sports. And so on and on. GGs fight in our world for their rights. They fight for their families. They right for their careers. They fight for equality. They fight for themselves.


And besides, it's not like I confronted some drunk dudes at 3 AM in the morning in some drunk alley. I'm not stupid. I'm not going to take crazy stupid suicidal risks like that.

To me, the risk of calling them out and fighting for myself was COMPLETELY WORTH IT. And if I had it to do over again, I would do the same damn thing!!

You know WHY I would do it, Rogina??! I would do it because they HAD IT COMING!!!


And if this disqualifies me from the ranks of GGs, then so be it. But I'm not a GG to begin with. My life experience is different. How I view the world is different. How I view myself is different. And how the world views ME is different.

But if I can do anything to change anyone's unfounded negative perception of me, or take action that likely results in thinking twice about doing shit in the future, or do something that empowers me further and validates more my sacrifice and my existence, then it's all cool by me in the end.

Walk away if you choose, Rogina. That's fine. There is no shame in that. It's safe. It's smart. It's all good. But don't you DARE judge me for not doing as you would do. I am not you. I am my own person, and I am good with me.

[larry]

The major concern I have when reading stories like this is ---Why is there not 4 or 5 of Us Girls in drab that show up and Kick A--!!

[Badtranny]

Great response to Rogina Anne, though I don't think she meant any offense. (Lord knows I could be wrong)

I would have done the same thing if they caught me on the wrong day. A lifetime of getting my ass kicked has kind of inured me to fear of an ass kicking. Or I may have just walked away like I've done a hundred times, it all depends on how saucy I was feeling. I'm proud of you for following your heart and transitioning. It's a shitty life, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do right? You are also right about not being a GG. None of us are, and the weirdo contingent that likes to pretend they didn't spend a lifetime as men are frankly just embarrassing.

Larry, the answer to your question is simple. The 'manly men' CD's that come on this board and talk about how tough they are and what THEY would do in a given situation will NEVER stand up for an obvious tranny in public. From what I can tell, (from many comments on this board), doing such a thing would immediately out them to their buddies as a Nancy boy.

[Eryn]

...Because those ****ers weren't calling out a GG. They were calling out a tranny. They were calling out me. They were calling me out precisely because I am *not* a GG....

Unless someone presents as a total "bearded guy in a dress", nobody knows for certain if that person is TG. If they cat-call and if there is no reaction there is no way that they could determine your birth gender unless they are stupid or drunk enough to pursue and assault you. Even if that happened the crowd wouldn't stand for a man attacking a person who is, on the surface, a woman.

Escalating the situation didn't improve anyone's perception of TG individuals. The verbal assailant saw his position vindicated by the fact that the "tranny" he had called out turned out to indeed be a "tranny," and one who was looking for trouble.

In his eyes you backed down because of his threat, aided by the woman who rescued you and that is the story that he will be telling for months to come.

Innocent onlookers also saw your actions and they will have their own stories to tell which won't be very favorable to us either.

If you had ignored him he would have just been a loudmouth yelling something crude. By reacting you gave him validation and power over you and us.

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” ― Eleanor Roosevelt

[arbon]

Why does what she did need to be judged? There was no "us" there, and its not her responsibility to worry about how the world is going to perceive "us" when she is being verbally assaulted and threatened. She was pretty brave to confront the person I thought, way more so then I could have been.

[Badtranny]

People who aren't willing to hang with us, don't have any right to hang with us.

((see what I did there? If you're not willing to 'hang' with us in the sense of being attacked (hung) for the crime of being authentic, then you don't have the right to 'hang' with us, in the sense of hanging out))

It should be patently obvious why I don't allow non transitioners into my circle of sisters. They simply don't get it. How could they?

[Anne2345]

@ Eryn: You are right. In defending myself, in standing tall and not backing down, I empowered my attacker. I emboldened him. I made him stronger. I grew his ego. He probably went home and immediately jacked off drunk with power I so unwittingly gifted him.

With all due respect, Eryn, WTF are you talking about??!! You either do not get it, or you are completely naive, or both.

Did you even *read* my post for comprehension??! In what way did I back down??! How did I give him power over me??! Would laughing it off and letting him get his jollies over yelling out to see my "vagina" *really* strip him of his perceived power over the situation??!

And how do YOU know what was going through his mind?!! You make a TON of assumptions here. Quite frankly, I am extremely disappointed in you that you would not support me for doing what was RIGHT and what was in my HEART.

You know, it's pretty damn funny and ironic. Over the years here, I have been criticized (and rightfully so) for being weak, for giving in, for be scared, and for having little conviction.

Now that I have worked my ASS off acquiring some of these things, I am now being criticized for utilizing these powerful tools that are new to my tool chest!!!

So what the hell!! I am damned if I do, and damned if I don't!! I guess I can't win no matter what I do, right??!!

Sigh. You know better than this, Eryn. I don't know what is up with you, but you are WRONG here. You are DEAD WRONG, and you have NO idea what you are talking about . . . .

[Eryn]

I read your entire post and think that I understand it pretty well.

The woman who allowed you to back down by leading you away rescued you from a no-win situation. Her smart and brave action might well have saved your life.

In my testosterone-ridden youth I put myself in similar situations a few times by letting my anger get the best of me. Yes, I felt that I was in the right, but could have ended up on a slab, right or not. Hindsight allows me to see that there were better ways to handle such situations than to descend to the level of my verbal assailants.

[Ann Thomas]

Having been in a couple of nasty situations recently, I have to respond. In the first, as it began to unfold, I found the quickest and most effective response was to pull out my camera and begin recording, without saying a word. The thugs beat a hasty retreat, yelling more obscenities and throwing quite a bit in my direction, which I simply sidestepped.

The other event was a bit more recently in the shop where I work. One guy came up to me and asked if he could see my boobs (I'm well past an A cup now, having been on hormones for a while now.) I tossed back at him one of the more choice questions from a thread a friend and I have had on Facebook, for good comebacks to obnoxious people. He turned red and turned around and walked away. (I don't really want to repeat the question I asked him, as it's very inappropriate for this forum, but it sure did he trick with this nosey jerk!)

Yours sounded really over the top and I really feel for you.

Avoidance is the best option - always is. Years ago my late ex-wife's best friend's husband was a Navy Seal. He told me the best defense was to always confront on your own terms, when the opponent least expects it. Oh, and don't go by the book - because they have it too. The element of surprise is best. Since these dudes at that event had the upper hand, walking away was best.

I'm honestly surprised I've gone so long without such a conflict as yours, as I live "behind the Orange Curtain" in one of the most conservative parts of California.

*hugs*
Ann

[Eryn]

...the best defense was to always confront on your own terms, ...Since these dudes at that event had the upper hand, walking away was best....

That's pretty much what I was thinking, and much better said.


I'm honestly surprised I've gone so long without such a conflict as yours, as I live "behind the Orange Curtain" in one of the most conservative parts of California.

Don't mistake conservative for uncivilized! Quite a few of those conservatives in the OC have pretty clothes in their closets. :)

[jaleecd]

Anne,I feel that a person who has decided to follow the hard choice to become a woman, and not retreating from that choice, but defending the new person that they are growing into, with all the extreemly hard choices they have made, could not help but defend that hard won personhood from small minded homophobes, who are very insecure about their own sexuality.
You have agonized about you journey to this place in your life, and, my opinion, only some one who has the scars of that trip, can really opine on how They would have handled it. Well done.

[Rachel Smith]

Anne

As a fellow Roanoker, Hardy actually, I am sorry to hear about your experience. I have experienced bigotry but not hatred like you did. For the most part I can read when someone is not happy/comfortable with me just be watching the expression on their faces. The ones that you just know will talk about you as soon as you are out of earshot.

I am glad you stood your ground it was much better then what I would have done which would have been simply to ignore the asshat. I am also glad that you came out of it physically unscathed. Thank you for letting others/me know that this happens here just as every where else. To me it comes down to manners and apparently this bigot has none.

Hugs
Rachel

[Aprilrain]

It's not for me to judge Anne or how she chose to deal with these anti social Cretans. Thankfully the situation was diffused and Anne is ok.

[KC Samanatha]

Anne,
What a powerful story. You are very courageous to make a stand like that. Your narrative had me on the edge of my seat.
The silver lining is that the world is so more full of the "angels" then the jackholes. The words and temper of the jackholes is so hurtful tho.
Way to stay strong.

[stefan37]

Those of you that are criticizing or judging Anne for her actions should keep in mind a couple things. It was an agonizing process for her to accept herself for what she is. It took a tremendous amount of self fortitude to continue in the path she has embarked. She is living her daily life as her. Early transition is a brutal time. There is a lifetime of male socialization we need to drop, as we learn unfamiliar to us female socialization skills. Making it more difficult the majority of us learn those socializations from our male or our trans friends point of view. We tend to lack especially in the beginning female friends to help.

Unlike a part timer. We do not go out dressed to the nines in a group, or wear heavy makeup. That in itself opens us up to getting "clocked" and ridicule. In more drastic cases that means physical harm and possibly death. You endure this ridicule and at some point it pushes you over the edge and you lash out. Whether her response was appropriate or not, I wasn't there so I wouldn't know. Those that live as male the majority if the time cannot know what it is like to live as female after living so many years as male. There are many comfort zones we need to leave to live as our authentic selves.


The concept we should alter our behavior for the good of the community and how people will think of us is BS. The tg community especially the TS community is one I want no part of. It is highly opinionated, elitist, fractured, and god forbid your opinion or actions are contrary to the so called self appointed TS elite trans activists. Our best option to living an authentic life is to get through this n brutal transitory period, integrate into mainstream society and leave the trans community far behind. It is one reason we have so many TS members visit this forum for support during transition and after their physical transition is complete and they begin integrating into society. They leave the site never to return. I personally know 6 members that no longer log in.

So before you judge a TS's actions. Try living their life. You will certainly see how difficult and dangerous it is without altercations similar to want Anne experienced. Her experience is something all us TS experience at least once and in many cases multiple times. In some cases and geographical locations daily, at work, at play, and socially.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

That's exactly right Stef...

its breathtakingly arrogant for somebody to jump on the OP and second guess Anne.....

The sense of real danger and the possibilities of a bad outcome are real. Only an idiot would think otherwise...it is not a newsflash to a transitioning transsexual woman that she puts herself at risk.
it does not require a dissertation on the risks or preachy admonishment that somehow she is filled with testosterone rage or doesn't understand what she did.

this was a story about being your authentic self and being assaulted because of it... anne's reaction was in the moment, it was visceral... days later I am sure there is a relief that nothing terrible happened...

but here's the thing...you weren't there... you can't say S$$T
Just like people that have a moment where they can jump in front of a car to save a toddler or jump in freezing water to save a friend (or they don't) you have no fricking idea what you would do, you can say you know, but you don't.

also you can't presume this guy would have backed off... who is to say that anne walking away would not have resulted in a worse outcome...a hand on her back, "hey i'm talking to you" or stalked from afar and attacked later...anyone capable of mouthing off like that is capable of worse... there was no easy answer... I love the fantasy assumption that walking away from someone trying to hurt you will make them stop ...its ridiculous...

[Kathryn Martin]

.......and god forbid your opinion or actions are contrary to the so called self appointed TS elite trans activists. Our best option to living an authentic life is to get through this n brutal transitory period, integrate into mainstream society and leave the trans community far behind.

So before you judge a TS's actions. Try living their life. You will certainly see how difficult and dangerous it is without altercations similar to want Anne experienced. Her experience is something all us TS experience at least once and in many cases multiple times. In some cases and geographical locations daily, at work, at play, and socially.

Anne, I wasn't there, so I am not sure what would have done. I usually don't go to places where the potential for this kind of exposure exists. I know for certain that during transition my family and my friends were very afraid of something like this to happen. One of the most valuable lessons I learned from the women in my life (not trans-women) was that a woman will always be much more acutely aware of her surroundings and potential for violence. Having a rape and violence culture leaves marks especially on women even if they have not encountered such. In this sense your assertion that a GG would not find herself in such a situation is really not reality. Just swop out a few words and something like this is what GGs do experience and often.

Stefan, I agree with some of what you have said. However, you will find that there are no trans elitist activists on this forum. Most of them would tell something similar to what I said above. Moreover, if you are what you call a trans elitist (whatever the hell that means) you will find that those that are, are never under any circumstances activists, and for good reason. Activism does not match well with integration into the life we want or the society that we live in. If you would like to discuss this further please pm me so this thread doesn't get closed.

Living a TS life means that you attempt to cross the bridge that separates you from who you are as quickly as possible and begin living a normal life after that. It is that place during transition that is so difficult and often so dangerous. I disagree with you that what Anne experienced is something we experience quite often. The level of aggression Anne experienced is quite beyond anything that I have ever experienced. What we do experience is micro aggression. Unless we get beaten and raped... and that is something women have experienced since the beginning of time. Welcome to reality........

[Sara Jessica]

Great response to Rogina Anne, though I don't think she meant any offense. (Lord knows I could be wrong)

I don't think Rogina meant any offense either. It was simply looking at the other side of the coin, another way the situation COULD have been handled.


Escalating the situation didn't improve anyone's perception of TG individuals. The verbal assailant saw his position vindicated by the fact that the "tranny" he had called out turned out to indeed be a "tranny," and one who was looking for trouble.

I disagree. I hope that everyone who witnessed the exchange went home feeling a need for a shower, that they witnessed an utter waste of humanity in their immediate presence. Although discrimination still exists on many fronts, in this day and age, scenes like this are not very common so hopefully those witnesses have at least an ounce more empathy for what dangers still lurk out there for transgendered individuals.

Where I really disagree though is the statement that Anne was looking or trouble. One who is on the receiving end of such an assault is rarely the one looking for the trouble. Her reaction was simply one of a human being who was pushed a bit to far at that particular moment in time.


Larry, the answer to your question is simple. The 'manly men' CD's that come on this board and talk about how tough they are and what THEY would do in a given situation will NEVER stand up for an obvious tranny in public. From what I can tell, (from many comments on this board), doing such a thing would immediately out them to their buddies as a Nancy boy.

I'm not a particularly 'manly man' but as you know, I present as that gender most of the time. I can tell you that if I were witness to Anne's situation, I'd have likely intervened in a heartbeat no matter who I was with. Then again, this is coming from someone who is decidedly non-confrontational and has never hit anyone in my life so my own adrenalin would be skyrocketing at just the thought of being in a potentially physical altercation which certainly could have arisen out of this situation.


Don't mistake conservative for uncivilized! Quite a few of those conservatives in the OC have pretty clothes in their closets. :)

Although most of OC is part of my personal no-fly zone, I've been out & about quite a bit in these parts and have never had an issue. OC may be conservative but this isn't redneck land by any stretch of the imagination.


That's exactly right Stef...its breathtakingly arrogant for somebody to jump on the OP and second guess Anne.....

If Anne would have presented this scenario responding that she backed away without confronting the idiot who assaulted her, I don't think anyone would have said "she should have gotten in his face and gave him a piece of her mind". Choosing not to confront the situation was nothing more than another option.

I already said that my gut reaction as I read Anne's post for the first time was that I was waiting for her to turn around and say something like "really? Is that the best you have?" as that is likely would likely been my response. But I would not have faulted her if she had done nothing and walked away with the support of those who were with her.

[stefan37]

I made no mention of elite trans activists on this site, but the so called "trans community" generally. My comments were directed to comments that we should be act a certain way for the benefit of the "TG" community.
Have you never gone to a county Fair, or festival of some sort? That was the venue Anne attended with a friend of hers and his son. She went to have a good time with friends and was verbally and capriciously assaulted with extreme prejudice and malice.

What a boring life if we can't go to wine, music or art festivals because they are the wrong venue for us to attend. She wasn't visiting some seedy section of town late at night. But a friendly family event in the middle of the day. Minding her own business enjoying the day. Until her peaceful day was shattered by some crude lout who most certainly was emboldened by the presence of his friends.

[Badtranny]

you will find that there are no trans elitist activists on this forum. ..

Stef and I are FB friends who chat a fair bit, and she was probably referring to the nutty broads she sees come after me on the regular. (not anymore though, I've retired) There's not a lot of that here for some reason.

...Come to think of it, I wonder why? I'm not being sarcastic, I am seriously wondering why we don't get more of an 'activist' crowd here.

[stefan37]

Lol, Retired. Accurate though.

[Nigella]

I will not condone, nor condemn Anne for her actions, she did what she felt was appropriate at that moment in time, exactly what we all do when confronted with a situation.

The outcome could have been so different in so many ways, as each "chapter" unfolded a new avenue of response opened. The bravest part of Anne's story is not what she did, but the fact that she came onto this forum and told her sisters about it.

Anne has been through a load of personal grief on her journey and has aired her suffering, to be told she should or should not have done this or that in a situation that only she has been through, is so wrong of anyone here. And before anyone says "but I have been there, done that" think again, you may have been in a similar situation, but not in the SAME situation.

[Rogina B]

What a boring life if we can't go to wine, music or art festivals because they are the wrong venue for us to attend. She wasn't visiting some seedy section of town late at night. But a friendly family event in the middle of the day. Minding her own business enjoying the day. Until her peaceful day was shattered by some crude lout who most certainly was emboldened by the presence of his friends.

And you have just reinforced my opinion that Anne should have not turned around and should have continued on her merry way...I really doubt they would have followed her or continued to yell out in the crowd.By turning around and getting up close and personal,it confirmed that she probably wasn't a GG. None of that would have been possible if she just kept walking away.

[stefan37]

And again you are not full-time and really have no idea what it is like to live 24/7. Only Anne knows why she reacted like she did and I for one will not judge her for her actions. Thankfully it turned out and she was not injured, but had she not confronted them, they may have viewed that as a sign off weakness and continued.

Just a couple weeks ago a forum member posted about a very scary incident her friend experienced that would have definitely resulted in harm. And she took the course of fleeing. All situations are different as our response to them. You will never know how you will respond to them until faced with the situation and effect a response.

[Kathryn Martin]

By turning around and getting up close and personal,it confirmed that she probably wasn't a GG.

THAT is really funny, because it is in so many ways completely off the mark. let me tell you what my likely reaction could have been:

- walk away

here is the more unlikely but possible reaction:

- lift my skirt and show him and tell him to get a life

Here is what my spouse would have done in that situation:

-told me to hang on and walk right up to him, get in his face (all 5'3") and and ask him if he had something to say. She is brilliant, she can intimidate guys in ways I can't even fathom. She has done this .... I have seen it......

So tell her that she is not a woman (she is FAB) and she would likely get into your face and let you have it. Devil's advocate in this situation is not helpful. What happened, happened. Hindsight is always 20/20 and what any of us would have done is about as relevant to this discussion as rock in the Arizona desert.

;

[Kaitlyn Michele]

what is it with this "what would a gg do??" "confirmed she was not gg"...

We live our authentic lives... full stop...

what anne confirmed is she wouldn't take crap from this loser... its a given that it could have gone wrong..that's not the point...

saying what would a GG do comes from a place of someone that is pretending to be a GG, not from a place where people are living their authentic lives as women

[LeaP]

Couple of things:

Anne is not full-time yet.

What makes the story so compelling actually isn't either the risk or outcome. It's the inner place Anne came from. As I said, I'm impressed so many ways it's hard to list them. Foolish or not, it was a woman's outrage and appeal. THAT'S why the angel responded as she did.

Anne, your irritation at some of the responses is understandable ... even if the language was a bit salty.

[Badtranny]

THAT is really funny, because it is in so many ways completely off the mark. let me tell you what my likely reaction could have been;

There is the extremely rare occasion that I agree with every word in one of your posts.

This is one of those occasions.

[stefan37]

While Anne may not be completely full time. She was certainly not there as her old male self. She was there as her true self. She's committed to her future and it's only a matter of time when she will be full time.

Early transition as I said earlier is a brutal awakening. There will be much unease interacting with the public. It is and will be for a long time in the back of our mind. Do they know or think I am trans? How are they going to react? The thing is though until you truly start to live your life authentically will you understand what it is like. And Anne is doing just that.

My point is that living a life in transition is way different than living life as a part timer where you get to pick and choose which situations you want to face as a male or female. Just as living as a transitioned 24/7 is different than living you life on hormones but still working or presenting as male.

[LeaP]

While Anne may not be completely full time. She was certainly not there as her old male self. ...

Yes.

Re GGs, I'm tempted to ask "what would Jesus do?" rather than what a GG would do. But since neither Jesus nor the reference model GG is here, what's the point? After all, the external reference is largely irrelevant once you've internalized your Christianity - or your womanhood. And the point? Oh yes ... it's rhetorical.

[Michelle789]

Yes.

Re GGs, I'm tempted to ask "what would Jesus do?" rather than what a GG would do. But since neither Jesus nor the reference model GG is here, what's the point?

Jesus would tell you that you are part of his kingdom, and would stand right by your side.

[Rogina B]

I believe that nothing was gained in your confrontation other than a vent for you,Anne. Someone heckled you and you flew off the handle. You could have kept walking,but your maleness took over.

[Danielle11]

Seriously, Regina, with your perspective on life. women could not vote. slavery would still be in effect. gays could not marry. we are different so we should just slink away and hide?????[I] have been asked many times why I don't let what I have be enough? it isn't enough. Simply, cause my life can be better. I'll fight for that.

[LeaP]

They say the best stories are those that reveal the reader more than they illustrate the writer. I'd say on the basis of this thread that Anne's OP qualifies. Fascinating set of responses.

[Anne2345]

I believe that nothing was gained in your confrontation other than a vent for you,Anne. Someone heckled you and you flew off the handle. You could have kept walking,but your maleness took over.

I gained more from that exchange than you will ever know or begin to understand or appreciate in your limited and sheltered existence, Rogina.

This is not about "maleness" or "femaleness." This is about life. It is about authenticity. It is about what is right. And it is about LIVING.

That you would presume to be in a position to judge me for "flying off the handle" is absolutely insane and ludicrous in the extreme.

But I also can't help but note there is an ironic twist to all of your posts in this thread. You claim that I couldn't walk away, you claim that my "maleness" took over (whatever *that* means), yet it is YOU that keeps HECKLING me within my own thread here, and it is YOU that can't walk away from your baseless and ridiculous accusations.

I gain much from my experience out and about doing my thing and trying to authentically live my life. What do do you gain by your constantly attacking me on this forum, Rogina?

Does it make you feel better about yourself? Does it make you feel important?! Does you feel some sort of perverse pride going after me?

I mean, you have never met me. You have never talked to me. You don't know me at all, other than what I let you know. So how is it that you have all of the answers when you have so little to base it upon?!

In your own way, by and through your insessent attemtpts of calling me out on this forum, you are just as much the school yard bully as any of the haters out there in the world. Except you attempt to hide and mask your own particular brand of mean-spirited aggressiveness and ignorance under the guise of an internet transgender support group membership.

But guess what, Rogina??! It no longer works. Folk have begun to catch on to you. Just a quick, cursory review of the responses on this very thread belay your true nature and lack of understanding.

I am not a GG, Rogina. And neither are you. So why don't you do us all a favor here, and step down from the high pedestal you have placed yourself on. It's quite unbecoming, you know? And it serves NO ONE well here. Least of all, you.

[Danielle11]

Girls.........who would think it. :love:

[Eryn]

Unlike a part timer. We do not go out dressed to the nines in a group, or wear heavy makeup. That in itself opens us up to getting "clocked" and ridicule.

And who is stereotyping "part-timers" here? I qualify as a part-timer and I wear what GGs of my age wear, both clothes and makeup. I'm seldom in a large group either.


but here's the thing...you weren't there... you can't say S$$T

Actually, we were all there, through the eloquence of Anne's original post. And, since this is a forum, we are expected to comment on what she wrote.


also you can't presume this guy would have backed off... who is to say that anne walking away would not have resulted in a worse outcome...a hand on her back, "hey i'm talking to you" or stalked from afar and attacked later...anyone capable of mouthing off like that is capable of worse... there was no easy answer...

There isn't, but the one way to virtually assure a violent outcome is to approach and engage the verbal assailant nose-to-nose. What outcome could one expect other than violence? The only thing that prevented a tragedy in this case was the courageous woman who intervened.

Not engaging with a verbal assailant is almost certainly safer and even if one were pursued it is more likely that others would come to our assistance.


Where I really disagree though is the statement that Anne was looking or trouble. One who is on the receiving end of such an assault is rarely the one looking for the trouble.

I made that assertion and perhaps it was unfair. A better way to put it is "willing to engage in antisocial behavior if provoked."


And again you are not full-time and really have no idea what it is like to live 24/7.

And that is a crock. This has noting to do with living full time. I'm a lowly part-timer, but in that sort of situation I am just as vulnerable, perhaps more so as I don't have as much experience and stick out more in a crowd. What I do know is that it isn't smart to engage a hostile verbal assailant on their own terms. Some battles should be joined, but only when the conditions are favorable. This isn't a TG/TS thing, it's simply common sense with dealing with any hostile and unpredictable individual.


yet it is YOU that keeps HECKLING me within my own thread here, and it is YOU that can't walk away from your baseless and ridiculous accusations.

You may have started it, but it isn't your thread any more than it is mine. What did you expect, everyone to say "You go, girl, you should have punched his lights out!"? Sorry, but that isn't the way public discourse works. If I write about doing something inadvisable on a public forum I expect that another member will probably point it out. Disagreeing isn't heckling.

I've made similar reckless actions in my youth and in hindsight I realized that getting in a loudmouth's face wasn't a good strategy. I didn't change the loudmouth's mind and I ended up getting hurt.

You probably don't agree with me at the moment, but in the fullness of time you'll figure it out. I know that I did.

In the meantime, this discussion might prevent another person from needlessly endangering herself.

[kittypw GG]

No stranger has asked to see my vagina in a public place so I am not sure how I would react. I have, however been groped in public and been very angry indeed. I can't for the life of me figure out why men think they are entitled to grope a women with lovely breast like mine used to be in my teens and 20's. I can't tell you how many times I was in a crowd and some gross dude walking by grabbed my boob. It made me so mad that the very next guy who did that to me got a grope to his balls he will not forget. :devil::devil: Will this guy learn a lesson from your confronting him? Probably. He might think twice next time he calls a "tranny" out in public. I totally understand the anger you felt Anne. It happens to women all the time all over the world. In the moment it probably made you feel better to confront those bullies but you put your self in danger. I suggest you get involved in educating the public through activism instead of confrontation. I'm sorry you felt the underbelly of humanity.

[Kathryn Martin]

Actually, we were all there, through the eloquence of Anne's original post. And, since this is a forum, we are expected to comment on what she wrote.

Eryn, I think that is nonsense. Yes we are expected to comment but to understand the full measure of how this transpired you would have to be there and BE in Anne's situation. This part of your comment is just taking license to impose your situational judgement on someone else.




There isn't, but the one way to virtually assure a violent outcome is to approach and engage the verbal assailant nose-to-nose. What outcome could one expect other than violence? The only thing that prevented a tragedy in this case was the courageous woman who intervened.

Not engaging with a verbal assailant is almost certainly safer and even if one were pursued it is more likely that others would come to our assistance.


And when is there ever a line that needs to be drawn. This is a very dangerous path to go down - essentially you are suggesting that male violence must be submitted to. Kitty essentially made it clear that this not a reality that women wish to live in.



A better way to put it is "willing to engage in antisocial behavior if provoked."

You are just making it worse. You are suggesting that social behavior means that we must allow males to say whatever they want no matter how hateful it might be, and submit to it. You are becoming the bystander who watches someone being beaten up without intervening.


You probably don't agree with me at the moment, but in the fullness of time you'll figure it out. I know that I did.

In the meantime, this discussion might prevent another person from needlessly endangering herself.

This is very condescending and paternalistic, you know.

[donnalee]

Courage is not an exclusively male prerogative. If the women in my family had not had the courage to come to this country, we would have died in the showers before I was born. I have so much admiration and love for those who have gone before me it's hard to express.
Anne acted in the best tradition of these women in confronting that scum and used good sense as to where, when and how.
Bullies need to be confronted as a public service and the most effective way is in front of as much public as possible. She offered no violence, did not threaten any and confronted a bully in the way she had been confronted; that deserves applause, not criticism.

[becky77]

Intriguing responses!
First off Anne I'm truly sorry that your day was ruined like that.
Such an event happening to me is a fear you have reiterated, as a woman you need to be responsible in where we go, we are vulnerable. But a county fair? No one would expect that?

Myself I truly have no idea how I would have reacted, I'm non confrontational and would have been scared, but I won't be bullied either.
I have never been in such a situation and wouldn't presume to know how it feels, your reaction was genuine to you.
Anyone that thinks they would stop and consider the implications on the TG community, are simply not living in the real world. Situations like these your adrenaline kicks in and everything happens so fast.

I'm really glad you are unhurt Anne, and I for one am proud of you.

Could it have gone bad?
Yes, they could have taught her a vicious lesson or they could have followed her till she was in a much quiter place and the result could be worse. You can neither guess the actions of the bully nor the actions of yourself, till put in that position.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Eryn thank you for responding but I do think saying things like "you will figure it out in time" is really hard to take...in fact, I would turn that on you and shake my head and say..."I guess you will never figure it out"

I know its a comment section...my statement isnt' that you can't comment...its that your comment about what a person SHOULD do in that situation is hopelessly detached from the reality of a situation...you can't say what you'll do in a dangerous moment..
if you think you know then I guess you'll never figure it out...

you know I read the Game of Thrones books... they are incredibly detailed and well written, but I've never been in a sword fight or fought a dragon... and I can't say what i'd do if confronted by a white walker...
I was not actually there..

[Pink Person]

It’s tough to endure all of the assaults on our dignity. When people annoy me with their disrespect, I prefer crushing their heads (a la the old comedy bit from the Kids in the Hall).

Seriously, I don’t think I would have taken the bait and confronted anyone. I have expensive dental work that would be costly to repair. However, I’m sympathetic to the strong reactions that people feel. A careless gender-based remark about me from a stupid coworker sometimes makes me see red. I have also been groped in a bar by a stranger, and it is extremely offensive.

Anne has proved that she is a sensible person by some of her remarks in this thread. Sensible people don’t need much coaching. I’m glad things didn’t turn out worse, and the unsolicited aid and comfort she received from a woman who didn’t know her is priceless. My only advice to people in a similar situation would be to take care, keep calm, and carry on. Sometimes ignoring problems does make them go away, but results do vary.

[Krisi]

I agree with Cheyenne in post #8. Ignoring the guy and walking away is by far the safest thing to do. When you decide to confront someone you have to be willing to take it as far as necessary and this could easily have ended in a physical fight with all the participants being arrested. Nobody wins in these fights.

Thes festivals usually have a lot of police walking around so I would have kept on walking and found one and if they were still following me I would have asked the officer for help. That's what they are there for.

[Sara Jessica]

Kaitlyn, everyone who has read Anne's OP is technically 'hopelessly detached' from the reality of the situation. As has been said, none of us were there. But many of us have paid Anne the well-deserved compliment in that she has written about it in such detail to make the reader feel as if they were in fact present. But this doesn't take away from the fact that the minority opinion that Anne could have/should have/would have simply walked away is not a valid one. Instead, this has disintegrated into the usual spitting war between various camps of gender expression.

It's kind of bizarre that speaking of pacifism as a choice in a situation such as this is met with quite the barrage of aggression. AGAIN, if Anne had walked away, I doubt the majority would have responded that she should have kicked some redneck a$$ but it seems she is being lauded for being ready to do so. Almost like Anne is being made out to be some sort of symbol who stood up to trans hate, being rallied around as a reaction to a community's collective frustration with continued discrimination. Anne is not a symbol, she is our friend and this could have turned out very bad. Based on how she conveyed the tale, I dare to say the odds of this positive-as-can-be outcome would have been 25% at best, violence being a more probable outcome.

[stefan37]

Those are the points I was making. You don't know how you will react until confronted n by the situation an react to it. And. Reacting one way to a situation may not necessarily get same reaction in a similar situation.
I can remember going to an event very similar. It was about a year and half ago as I was just starting to go out regularly as Stephanie. I had many people stare at me. I had 3 separate occasions where they actually pointed at me, ridiculed and laughed at me. Two of those I was away from my wife getting some food. The one she was with me. I defused the situation by l laughing at them. It stung and hurt deeply. My wife was thoroughly embarrassed and it took awhile for her to go out me to public places. Had I been in a bitter mood, who knows the reaction would certainly have been different. Had they showed the malice shown to Anne, I might have reacted much like she did.

Most bullies when confronted will back down because they prey on the weak. Anne showed tremendous courage in confronting him. Yes it could have gone south quickly. And listening to Anne's words. She didn't feel an overwhelming sense if accomplishment but was haunted by the experience for most of the night.

I am not condoning or condemning her actions. Nor will I judge her actions as she handled the situation in her own way. Willing to accept the consequences of her actions. Just as open confrontation may not be the best course of action. Neither is ignoring it and running away putting our head in the sand enduring the abuse.

And for the record add to being a flight or fight individual. Most of the time I will flight. But there have been rare instances where flight was not the appropriate alternative and I stood my ground. Thankfully this few times proved to be the right response as the other party seeing my resolve backed down. But it also could have gotten very ugly

[LeaP]

Seems to me the exchange is important. While there are some ad-hominems flying around, there is a lot of anti-trans violence out there and no consensus on how to handle it. Yet here is a case in-hand where it didn't escalate. Surely reasons for the outcome is worth some discussion? In the end, with a real instance and not a theoretical one, the only rational judgement that can be made is that something went right. That doesn't invalidate points about risk or wisdom ... but some combination of events and circumstances came out for the best.

[Badtranny]

This thread is a spirited discussion and as far as I know, those are still allowed. I hope the mods agree, though ironically one of the participants is an ex-mod who I know would have already shut it sown and possibly banned a couple of folks. lol

Second, NOBODY here is advocating violence. Anne was not 'ready for a fight', she was talking back to somebody who was talking to her. Most of these things don't escalate from verbal exchanges because most people aren't that violent, though they talk about it a lot. Some ass said something rude and she called him on his assery. She could have gotten hurt, yes. Maybe it wasn't smart, but who among us would say that transition was a smart thing to do?

I challenge anyone to live everyday of their lives dressed like an obvious MTF tranny and endure the constant stares, or giggles, and double takes. Do that for a few weeks and then tell me how you would react when ONE more asshole says ONE more thing.

[stefan37]

There have been no real blatant personal attacks. There are however different points of view. Even if those guys are highly opinionated. Violence against trans individuals is very real. Those of us that are out and about are exposed to it. As have man my of my friends. While I am not advocating confrontations. I know a girl personally that was out a couple of years ago. She was accosted and walked away she was followed and best to an inch of her life. There is a member of this forum that recanted an incident about s friend of hers sailing home and getting clocked by a group of individuals. She walked faster and they followed. She ran home locked the door and they followed her to her apt. She was stalked for 2 days getting called names and threats. Finally her friend got her out to a new place.

Nobody really knows what the right response is until confronted by it. And having a discussion about it is very valid. Especially since all of us that are out as our authentic selves are potentially exposed to it.

[Anne2345]

Instead, this has disintegrated into the usual spitting war between various camps of gender expression.

SJ, you know Iove you to death, and you know I enjoy healthy debate and civil discourse just as much as the next person.

Also, I detest and absolutely abhor violence. I do not go looking to start fights, and I do not looking for fights to get involved in.

As for my reaction, you disagree with the manner in which I conducted myself. You put forth your reasons, and you made your arguments. And that is fine. It's all good. We can go back and forth on the merits of the argument.

MY issue in this thread is NOT that some folk here disagree with me. Because god knows I have been wrong about a great deal many things I have written about on this forum.

Rather, my issue is how some here have the arrogance and gall to actually JUDGE me for how I held myself out.

For example, Rogina has created some mythical, arbitrary, non-existent standard to which she is holding me to - the GG standard (whatever THAT is). But let's say for the sake of argument such a standard DOES exist, who is she to apply it to me? Besides, I AM NOT A GG, nor do I presume to be. So such a standard (that doesn't exist anyways) is completely inapplicable to me, it is irrelevant, and it is of no consequence whatsoever. Yet Rogina feels compelled to fling baseless and unwarranted accusations against me that my "maleness" took over and was controlling of my actions? What the hell does that even mean?? But again, she is creating arbitrary non-existent, convenient standards in which to judge me by.

Another example - Eryn's statement suggesting that my actions where "testestorone-fueled." Quite frankly, Eryn, your comments to me within this thread I have found to be quite personally offensive. You know you have my respect, but YOU should know better than to say to things in this forum. Testosterone-fueled?! Are you kidding me?!! What's really funny about this is that I have 20 months of testosterone blockers under my belt. My T has been tanked now for well over a year and a half. I basically have no testosterone to fuel much of anything, much less some deep latent male caveman macho fight response to jack up some bullies. You are no less guilty of judging me and my actions, with no real substantive basis, than Rogina is. Except you are holding me (presumably) to your former male-ego T-driven standard (whatever THAT is), and that is also a standard tha simply does not apply to me. Argue the merits all you want, but please leave behind careless, judgmental words in which you have cloaked your "arguments" in. Although I expect such words from some here, I do not expect them from you. Not like this.

As far as the issue itself is concerned, if I should walk away every single time, and never confront an assailant under any circumstances, what will this accomplish, other than the ability to live out the remainder of my life wrapped in some insulated bubble-wrapped cocoon in hiding from the realities of the world?!

Even more, what if no one anywhere stood up for anything at all?? What if everyone just simply walked away from any and all confrontation? This world is already screwed up enough as it is, but how much worse would it be if everyone backed down from those who would seek to oppress others and invalidate the existence of those who are different? Who is allowed to stand up, and under what circumstances? Where is the line drawn? Is there anything in this world, or as merely an individual, that is worth *fighting* for at all?? I am not advocating voilent confrontation here. I am not advocating violence at all. But I also think I stand to lose much as an individual if I just sit back and allow folk to shit all over me without response. THAT simply empowers the aggressors even more. That they know they can act against me (or those like me) without fear of consequence or confrontation - how does THAT benefit me? Who does that serve? How does that play out in the long? And at the end of the day, this is MY life. I have to be able to live with myself. If I am unwilling and unable to express myself and act upon those issues that are important to me and that I feel a great deal of conviction over, what does this say about me as a person?!!

I did not confront those jackholes looking for a fight. Not did I threaten physical retaliation. Even more, I was aware of my surroundings and location. And I had a pretty good idea of the risks involved. In this regard, I am neither careless nor naive. To me, the potential reward was worth the risk.

Last, how different would the lyrics to Bob Marley's classic "Get Up Stand Up" be had he believed that the walk-away was the appropriate course of action in the face of all controversy and oppression?!

"Get Up, Stand Up"

Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!

Preacherman, don't tell me,
Heaven is under the earth.
I know you don't know
What life is really worth.
It's not all that glitters is gold;
'Alf the story has never been told:
So now you see the light, eh!
Stand up for your rights. Come on!

Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!

Most people think,
Great God will come from the skies,
Take away everything
And make everybody feel high.
But if you know what life is worth,
You will look for yours on earth:
And now you see the light,
You stand up for your rights. Jah!

Get up, stand up! (Jah, Jah!)
Stand up for your rights! (Oh-hoo!)
Get up, stand up! (Get up, stand up!)
Don't give up the fight! (Life is your right!)
Get up, stand up! (So we can't give up the fight!)
Stand up for your rights! (Lord, Lord!)
Get up, stand up! (Keep on struggling on!)
Don't give up the fight! (Yeah!)

We sick an' tired of-a your ism-skism game -
Dyin' 'n' goin' to heaven in-a Jesus' name, Lord.
We know when we understand:
Almighty God is a living man.
You can fool some people sometimes,
But you can't fool all the people all the time.
So now we see the light (What you gonna do?),
We gonna stand up for our rights! (Yeah, yeah, yeah!)

So you better:
Get up, stand up! (In the morning! Git it up!)
Stand up for your rights! (Stand up for our rights!)
Get up, stand up!
Don't give up the fight! (Don't give it up, don't give it up!)
Get up, stand up! (Get up, stand up!)
Stand up for your rights! (Get up, stand up!)
Get up, stand up! ( ... )
Don't give up the fight! (Get up, stand up!)
Get up, stand up! ( ... )
Stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up!
Don't give up the fight! [fadeout]

[becky77]

No one condoned violence as an option?
We simply defend Anne from those judging her on hindsight.

I was picked on throughout school because I was different, I was bullied relentlessly at art college for ironically, not being different enough.
Bullies prey on weakness, the day day I did walk away I got attacked from behind.
I can't help feel you are bullying Anne with some passifist ideology, to prove a point?
She did what she did in a unique situation, where logical thinking wasn't really possible.
I find fight (goes bad), flight (can work but like a Dog when the Cat runs, its sets in motion a bullies conviction).
There is a third option and that is using language to defuse a situation.
In essence that is what she did and it was actually successful, even though very scary. So who is anyone to say Annes reading of the situation, wasn't the correct one?
When only she was there.

As for the Angel, yes she may have come to Annes rescue. But is it also possible she was inspired by Annes conviction?

[Marleena]

What would you do? I'll share this video I saw on TV to show how onlookers might react to a verbal attack. Some of you may have seen it already. The woman that came to Anne's aid was a gem.:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBQl7vmcrbk

[Sara Jessica]

As for my reaction, you disagree with the manner in which I conducted myself. You put forth your reasons, and you made your arguments. And that is fine. It's all good. We can go back and forth on the merits of the argument.

Actually Anne, I didn't disagree with you at all (see my first reply, you replied much like I think I might have if placed in a similar situation).

My point has to do with there being a valid alternative way to have handled the situation which was getting trampled in the rhetoric. The aggression I was referring to was how doing nothing as a choice was being attacked, so to speak.

When all is said and done, the only that matters is that you came through this without any physical bruises (assuming your Angel's hug wasn't too tight ;) ).

[Bria]

I think what Anne did was very brave. I don't think would have done what Anne did, but that's me, I have always shied away from confrontations and fights from the time I was a skinny kid with glasses, as they say "your mileage may differ".

What I am sure about is that if I had been at that event and seen and heard what went on, I would have taken action to lend protection to Anne, It might not have been the same as her guardian angle did, but I won't stand by and see that happen to any one regardless of who they are or appear to be. I have way to many friends in the LBGT spectrum to do other wise. I maybe a part timer, but I think I do get it.

Anyone that thinks that T is necessary to be firm, maybe confrontational, never met my first wife, our two daughters, or my mother. Standing up for what is right doesn't involve T, it involves inner strength, integrity, and a belief that we were all created equal and should be accorded equal rights.

Hugs, Bria

[LeaP]

Here's my guess as to some of the factors that influenced the outcome:

Anne confronted - but didn't threaten.
She spoke to, and appealed to more than the attacker.
She shamed, which introduces doubt.
She appealed to basic decency and for decent treatment, not to tranny rights or some such.
The wide appeal and it's basic dignity is what brought the angel in.
Purely guessing here, but Anne is likely taller, which introduces doubt in the attacker.
A fairgoing crowd was a somewhat advantageous locale, with police, women, and children present.

[CONSUELO]

You were incredibly brave to face down those disgusting cowards. The woman who came to your aid is an angel and I hope she feels very good about what she did because she should. I am so pleased that the incident did not end violently. A fist to your beautiful face would have been an awful ending.
Now I hope that you can push this memory away along with all of the hurtful emotions.

[Nicole Erin]

Everyone assumes Anne would have got hurt. I would put my money on Anne if things got nasty. The friends were obviously shaken once Anne stood up for herself. The MOST emasculating thing a man could go through is getting his ass beat by a transgender. None of them wanted to risk that. Anne might have been bouncing the guy's head on the ground.

Some good was gained. First, Anne learned she does have the nerve to stand up for herself even with the rudest pricks. Anne is now a little stronger.
Second, the guy thought twice about messing with Anne. He didn't follow Anne after she left with the older lady.
Basically, that guy just made himself look like an ass.
People, you are forgetting that if you stand up to a bully usually just once... JUST ONCE and they tend cool their crap.

The guy probably talked about the incident afterwards. Don;t you imagine people are telling him "Dude, you could have got your ass kicked".

Sometimes we are left with no choice but to stand up for ourselves, no matter who we are. Anne didn't really have a choice. I think things would have got worse if she had just cowered away like some of you are suggesting.

[Eryn]

And when is there ever a line that needs to be drawn. This is a very dangerous path to go down - essentially you are suggesting that male violence must be submitted to.

I do not condone "male violence", but one loudmouth saying something offensive is not worth taking on a heap of emotional baggage and risking possible physical injury. There is a choice to be made in handling such a situation. I can ignore the idiot and get on with having a pleasant time at the event, or allow the idiot to manipulate me and make an ugly situation for everyone.


I know its a comment section...my statement isnt' that you can't comment...its that your comment about what a person SHOULD do in that situation is hopelessly detached from the reality of a situation...you can't say what you'll do in a dangerous moment..

Actually, I have a very good idea of what I would do since I've experienced the pain that resulted from similar encounters. I've learned that my anger isn't productive and confrontation ruins the day for both myself and for those around me.


These festivals usually have a lot of police walking around so I would have kept on walking and found one and if they were still following me I would have asked the officer for help. That's what they are there for.

A very good suggestion! Even if he wasn't following me I would point out the offender and tell the policeman that he was trying to cause a disturbance. Unfortunately, the old adage of "there's never a cop around when you need one" probably applies here.


ironically one of the participants is an ex-mod who I know would have already shut it sown and possibly banned a couple of folks. lol

If you are referring to me then you don't know me very well. No rules have been broken and there's nothing wrong with a spirited discussion.


I challenge anyone to live everyday of their lives dressed like an obvious MTF tranny and endure the constant stares, or giggles, and double takes. Do that for a few weeks and then tell me how you would react when ONE more asshole says ONE more thing.

Y'know, I pretty much do that. The only place where I present male is at work. Outside of that I'm always in casual female clothing. At 6'2" I stand out and I get quite a few stares and occasionally someone snickers or points. Rather than storing up anger, I've simply become used to the fact that there are a few people out there who aren't pleased with me. I'm not going to change them so I'm satisfied with not allowing them to live in my mind rent-free.


Another example - Eryn's statement suggesting that my actions where "testestorone-fueled."

Anne, please read what I wrote again. I was referring to myself in my own youth, not to you.

The way I reacted to verbal attacks back then wasn't smart and I'm not proud of it, but it does mirror the situation we are discussing

Anger, whatever its source, is not our friend. It removes our power of reason and forces us down paths that are best not taken.

[Rogina B]

I challenge anyone to live everyday of their lives dressed like an obvious MTF tranny and endure the constant stares, or giggles, and double takes. Do that for a few weeks and then tell me how you would react when ONE more asshole says ONE more thing.
I have the "public experience" to back up my opinion that Anne should have continued on her merry way through the crowd.

[GinaD]

Your courage is admirable. I have not had such a traumatic experience, but have suffered looks, muted comments, and other insults that have been annoying. That woman has a heart of gold.

[Rianna Humble]

I have the "public experience" to back up my opinion that Anne should have continued on her merry way through the crowd.

Actually, Rogina, all you have is "public experience" to back up that you did things differently in dissimilar circumstances.

You can share your experiences and even sugegst that you believe you would have done things differently.

What is becoming tiresome to all the regulars here, is your insistence that only your viewpoint can possibly be valid.