For the "I dress to pass" crowd...

[Wildaboutheels]

The "I dress to pass" when I GO OUT into the RW crowd. It's often accompanied by "I want to be treated like a lady" or something to that effect.

Besides someone opening or holding a door for you, what might be some of the other ways people would treat/interact with you differently as a lady instead of a man?

I've read many a story [in the Dating Forums] where females complained because a sales person [usually a man] treated them more or less like a clueless bimbo merely because they were a female.

[Julogden]

It's mostly to do with dressing in a manner that shows that I have self respect and expect respect from others.

Carol

[PaulaQ]

A "thank you, ma'am" goes down real smooth...

edit: BTW, being treated as a clueless bimbo still beats being treated as a man in a dress. I can speak from experience.

[Judith96a]

Anyone who treats me like a clueless bimbo clearly needs glasses! (And is likely to need a new jaw!)

[Simone's Lil' Sis]

We DO get treated like a clueless bimbos. Esp. men who think they are SUPERIOR over women. Happens ALL the time.

[KittyD]

Funny I was thinking about this the other day...!
And I thought to pass is to go unnoticed in the crowd, not to stand out but to blend in...

KD :D

[Kate Simmons]

Some folks can't seem to win. They either do pass as a woman and then complain about being treated like a clueless dummy or being hit on by a guy or blend in with the crowd and aren't noticed anyway. Here's a radical idea. Why not just be yourself and not care what an umpteen number of strangers think?:)

[PaulaQ]

Why not just be yourself and not care what an umpteen number of strangers think?:)

Yes, this is the key to happiness Kate. I only care what others think when they are trying to physically assault me. Although I have to admit, giggling groups of women with cell phone cameras pointing, laughing, and taking photos they post to instagram are really annoying.

[Persephone]

Besides someone opening or holding a door for you, what might be some of the other ways people would treat/interact with you differently as a lady instead of a man?

Well, it IS really nice when a gentleman holds a door for me!

But, for me, I am "just one of the girls" in lots of situations, a member of several women's groups, etc. so I'm involved in a female lifestyle. The conversatioins are different as a woman, the things we celebrate and the things we laugh at, the details of life (it is very different to hear the woman's side of the dating world, for example). We hug each other, bond with each other, and share our lives in different ways than men share theirs.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[BillieAnneJean]

I have been propositioned by a guy out on the street.
I have been honked at by truck drivers as I pass them in my sports car with the top down.
I have been asked for directions as maam.
I have had the fire department give me a wave and a honk as they pass by.
I have been referred at as maam by people in passing.
I have had the door held for me.
But the best thing? Passing by a reflective window outside or mirror in a store and seeing my reflection. That is the best.

[carhill2mn]

This post quite closely describes me except for the last paragraph. My experience has been the exact opposite. I get much more attention when presenting as a woman than
as a man. One time at Lowes there were three men trying to find the correct light bulb for me. Many times I have asked a man for assistance in finding something and they have gone out of their way to take me to where I needed to be.

Another difference is that I get many smiles, nods from other women. I never would get those if I were presenting as a man.

[Michaelasfun]

I notice that guys let me merge into traffic more often. Nice practical aspect of CD'ng ;)

[Lorileah]

I only get the bimbo treatment at car repair places. They assume I don't know that you have to replace your muffler bearing every 30000 miles... well duh doesn't everyone? I must be doing it totally wrong because I don't want to fade into the crowd. I want people to notice.

[Simone's Lil' Sis]

......Although I have to admit, giggling groups of women with cell phone cameras pointing, laughing, and taking photos they post to instagram are really annoying.
Paula, since you wanted to be a woman so badly, then WHY did you post such a sexist comment? It's puzzling as well an oxymoron to moi.

[CynthiaD]

People are always nicer to me when I'm en femme. Female clerks are more chatty and helpful. Male clerks are gentlemanly. Yes, I like it when men hold the door for me, and I love being called ma'am.

Yes it's true. If you want to present as a woman, you have to take the bad with the good. There are some fellows out there who feel that they're superior to women just because they're male. We know better. I've tried to support equal treatment for women whenever I could. The best we can do is try to lead by example. After all, we have a stake in this too.

[Kris Avery]

My SO says that en femme I'm DEFINATELY a clueless bimbo - so I guess I'll own it.

I guess she should know. She is often totally clueless herself...:D

[Felicia Dee]

Hmmmm. Never actually considered this... I suppose, as long as people are considerate and respectful of me and how I am presenting at the time... it doesn't actually matter to me...

[Sarasometimes]

I think by passing you are being treated as a lady or else you haven't passed, right?
I love when another woman compliments my on some aspect of my appearance or just says a kind passing word. Women do this with each other a lot more then men do. I now do it en male to strangers with great responses. Something Sara taught me.

[candykowal]

I have been propositioned by a guy out on the street.
I have been honked at by truck drivers as I pass them in my sports car with the top down.
I have been asked for directions as maam.
I have had the fire department give me a wave and a honk as they pass by.
I have been referred at as maam by people in passing.
I have had the door held for me.
But the best thing? Passing by a reflective window outside or mirror in a store and seeing my reflection. That is the best.

The cat calls and fox whistles are nice...like BilleAnneJean, those are the things I cherish too!

[Lillyasia]

I sure get treated a whole lot better going out en femme than I do as a guy. The first time I had a man hold a door for me was when I was coming out of Kohls. I didn't know how to react.

[ReineD]

Yes, there have been rude men who have treated me like a brainless woman, but less than a handful that I remember, out of the hundreds and hundreds of interactions I've had with men all my life. There have been some women who treated me rudely as well.

I don't present as a male so I don't know if I would discern a difference in treatment. But, I do notice the people in the service industry deal with others and I can't say they treat men and women any differently. Staff in restaurants and retail stores just do the same job whether the customer is a man or a woman.

I've had doors opened for me by both men and women, and I've done the same. Things are more equal now than they used to be. I do get called "ma'am" sometimes, but most of the time I get, "May I help you?", "Excuse me", and "Thank you".

The one way that I do feel "treated" like a woman is when I feel vibes from men who notice me in the way that men notice women. Not every man, mind you ... lots of men are past that or there are no vibes at all. I should think that a CDer would have to pass perfectly in order to get the same vibes?

[noeleena]

Hi.

Sarah.

= By passing you are being treated as a lady or else you havent passed ,

and, or would you say not blended in .

Hmmm.....or.... heres another side, one is well known what if you dont pass or blend in or .

cant because of another reason and its not possible what then , how should one take that what can one do yet no full well one cant change that detail that would help you pass,

Ill use one word .....Acceptance.....will cover any diffficultes, and how one looks or not.

...noeleena...

[Kate T]

I'm not so obsessed about being "treated like a lady" per se as opposed to being treated respectfully.

I think there are subtle differences between the way men and women are treated in society, and not all of them are "bad". As a general rule I have found that female sales assistants tend to be far more conversational, interactive and relaxed with a woman than a man (curiously generally I have noticed them to be more relaxed with me when presenting female versus male despite there being no doubt they know I am not genetically female and am likely CD). A woman is far more likely to receive a compliment about anything from their shoes to their hair or necklace. Interactions with male customers tend to be very focused on specifics, how much is the item, performance characteristics etc. and the sale process is typically resolved much quicker however they tend to have far fewer add on sales. These are of course generalisations and also it must be remembered that the behaviour of men in social interactions also influences and probably reinforces these stereotypes.

Like I said, I'm not obsessed about how people treat me as long as it is with respect. However that joy of self validation when someone genders me as female (i.e. with a Miss or Ma'am etc.) is hard to describe :)

[Claire Cook]

My experiences have been much like Carol's. Especially the interactions with other women. As Persephone has said, the interactions and conversations are very different than I would have if presented as a man. I don't know if they realize I'm a guy, but for me this is one of the genuine joys of being out and about.

[mariehart]

I can't really relate any experiences of going out as I haven't done anything like that in years. To me the most important thing is to pass and as I don't believe I can I don't go public. But then again even when I did pass I didn't go out much. I didn't really have the nerve.

One point, I hold the door open for men or women and have often had the door held open for me. It's the polite thing to do. Is it different in the US?

[kimdl93]

This question goes off in two directions. So to the first one. Yes, I want to be treated like a woman. Getting ma'amed , having doors held for me, sure I like that. And when I engage other women in conversation, I enjoy feeling part of the conversation. But I mostly want to be able to go about life without disruption. If I blend in, get few notices and experience the world around me on my terms, it's all good.

As to how some women are treated by men...that's another matter. I don't expect or for that matter tolerate condescension or attempts to exploit me because of my TG status. Im sure most women would feel the same about such treatment. Is someone behaves in appropriately towards me or a GG, it's on them...not on us.

[Leslie Langford]

Well, for me a couple of instances stand out:

- Browsing among the bras in a La Senza lingerie outlet and having a GG come up beside me while doing the same, and then offhandedly remarking in passing "If there's one thing I hate, it's shopping for shoes and bras!" As I smiled back knowingly, I thought to myself "Isn't that funny? If there's one thing in the world that I love more than anything else, it's shopping for shoes and lingerie!" ;)

- Fixing my hair and make up in a ladies' washroom and having a GG call out to me for assistance (I was the only other person in the washroom at the time, and didn't realize at first that it was I whose attention she was trying to attract. She had run out of toilet paper, and was asking if I might be good enough to pass some more to her under her stall door. I have since learned that this is quite a common occurrence in women's washrooms, and they typically take such requests in stride...the "sisterhood", and all that...

I now know that there is at least one GG out there who will be eternally grateful for having run into a CDer in a women's washroom, even if she didn't realize it at the time - LOL!

[Candice Mae]

One thing though, when you pass you get to deal with guys and even worse the creepy ones... :Angry3:

[PaulaQ]

Paula, since you wanted to be a woman so badly, then WHY did you post such a sexist comment? It's puzzling as well an oxymoron to moi.

I missed thus reply and I omitted a word or two. I get annoyed by groups of women who point at, laugh at, and photograph me and my friends. "Ewwww look at the big ole Trannies!!!!" This has happened at least 3 times in the past month alone. It's not pleasant to be treated like a circus freak on display for their entertainment. It is definitely annoying.

I don't know that only women do this, but every time this has happened, its been women. (Harassment from men has been different.)

[michelle64]

some will never pass..its just the fact..i always dress to pass (short, small head, thighs and a butt helps)..it has caused me some trouble especially with the perfume ladies at macy's..i do enjoy that shock value...dress to pass can be expensive..cheap forms are junk..cheap wigs are junk..and the good stuff is expensive..

i

[susmitha]

If you dress to pass, naturally you need to be treated as a normal GG, without a clue or doubt that you are CD. Human respect, decent behaviour etc. are basic requirements.

[NicoleScott]

Does saying "I want to be treated like a lady" imply that men and women should be treated differently (other than using proper pronouns)? As others have said, I hold door open for all others and have doors held for me by men and women, it doesn't matter, it's about courtesy.
I recall a story I heard about a woman shopping for a new car, her husband going along for the ride. It was for her, she would pay for it herself, and she made that clear to the salesman. She asked the salesman several questions about the car, and in every case, he directed his answer to the husband. I wonder how many lost sales it took for the salesman to figure it out.

[Dianne S]

I don't really want to be treated in any specific way when I'm out dressed. But I do want people to perceive me as a woman, and when I get ma'am'd I really like it. It means I have been perceived the way I want to be perceived. Or it means the other person is being polite, but either way I'm happy.

[Tina_gm]

I missed thus reply and I omitted a word or two. I get annoyed by groups of women who point at, laugh at, and photograph me and my friends. "Ewwww look at the big ole Trannies!!!!" This has happened at least 3 ut times in the past month alone. It's not pleasant to be treated like a circus freak on display for their entertainment. It is definitely annoying. This here is the number one reason why I do not go out in public. For TS in or having done transition, not really much choice. Most will still have a look about them. With surgeries and HRT it may be lessened but for many, the physical male can only be erased so much.

For CDers not wishing to transition, while for many good experiences going out, this that Paula speaks of will undoubtedly happen and many posts here reflect the negative experiences that do happen. Though we may be able to tell a CDer from a post op TS a little easier, for most, they will not know the difference, and also to them, there really isn't a difference. It is all one big LBGT blob to them. At best if they just don't care that is what we should strive our society to be.
We are definitely farther along than we have been, if still behind other minorities. At the same time black people were not allowed to drink out out of the same faucets and had to ride in the back, guess what would happen to a CDer walking down the street in broad daylight in a downtown district?? any guesses?? Today, more people than not will just not really care. Still some that do and may act upon it, but today CD's can and do walk down mainstreets in daylight. We are making slow progress.

[wanda66]

3times this month i have been address as a woman..i wasnot dress as one but my hair style from behine easily can be mistaken for a female . Honestly i was flattered . In each case i smiled and moved on with the situation. It has given me confidence to move along with my passion.

[typhoidmary]

I don't want to be treated any differently, just to be acknowledged as being what I feel i should be acknowledged as. That said it would be nice if less people used the way I look as a reason to be rude to me, i get that I live in quite a backwards town and my flat chest and clown feet and square jaw are a bit of a giveaway but it's not necessary. I'm not "asking for it" by dressing this way, it's not for other people at all, it's for myself.