NOT Gay

[CherylFlint]

I’m not too sure how to write what I want to express, but I’ll do my best.
When I’m drab, I’m all guy in that I like women. No and’s, if’s, or but’s. JUST women.
But when I’m dressed, I like guys.
So . . . I don’t consider myself “Gay”, not in the least. I’m not concerned with “gay rights” or any “rainbow” stuff.
Either I’m a guy, 100%, or a women, 100%.
I know it’s all in my mind, but I don’t consider myself “gay” in the slightest.
How do you feel about the “gay” thing? It may not make any sense, but that’s just how I feel about it.
What about you? How do you feel about it?

[Candice Mae]

This is where you have to realize if its really just you trying to portray a female mind and image when dressed and its just in your head, or is dressing allowing your bisexual-ism to be more apparent. How you present has no effect on your true sexuality, it just may make it "okay" in your mind to explore your other urges and desires. Putting on a dress does not make you gay or bisexual.

One way to look at it is, if you play hockey once and continue to play you are a hockey player.

And if you have relations with a guy and continue to you are gay or bisexual.

[bridget thronton]

First perhaps is to realize there is nothing wrong with being either gay or bi then you might be able to analyze where you are

[CherylFlint]

Maybe, but then again, maybe not.
It's all not so cut and dry, black and white, as we would like it to be.
I never, but NEVER, use butter, EXCEPT when I eat freshly boiled lobster. So, does that make me a "butternut"?

[Isabella Ross]

Bridgette has to agree with Bridget: there's no negative about being gay, bi or whatever. Your post, Cheryl, seems subtly imply that there is.

[I Am Paula]

Society expects certain behavior from certain genders. As soon as one begins to blur, or cross gender lines, by definition, sexuality gets mixed up. If you stay one gender all your life (as do most) then we can define sex roles.
Sexuality is what makes you happy, not what the label says.

[Tiffany Jane]

Does Cheryl allow the buried sexual desires to come out? Maybe that what scares you is a preconceived notion that these feelings are not completely heterosexual thoughts, rather than you wanting to be with men?

Either way, a person's sensuality doesn't always dictate ones sexuality.

[ShannonIL]

No, that doesn't make you a butternut, but that's also probably not the best analogy. Sexuality is a messy thing, especially when it's in your head. Homosexuality is, at it's basic definition, an attraction to - or sexual activity with - members of the same sex. Candice mentioned it in her post, and I agree. It's entirely possible that dressing as a woman is allowing your brain to rationalize that attraction/interest, and it's also possible that your male-persona can't. There are a bunch of reasons why that might be the case, but in my experience (which is neither vast nor professional) it usually boils down to being uncomfortable with the idea of being gay/bi/whatever. Matters of the brain are never simple, that's for sure.

Ultimately though, I think what Bridget said is key. I feel, based on your statements, that you've probably got an idea of what being "gay" or "bi" actually means, and that idea isn't necessarily correct. Being attracted to members of the same sex isn't about rainbows, or activism, or really any stereotype. I think you've probably got some searching to do within yourself, and once you've come to an understanding with yourself, you can figure out what it really means.

[Katey888]

I never, but NEVER, use butter, EXCEPT when I eat freshly boiled lobster. So, does that make me a "butternut"?

No Cheryl - but it does make you an eater of butter... :)

Sexuality almost certainly isn't rigidly defined for most people, although their sexual preference usually falls into one of the 3 or 4 major categories. From what I've read here and other parts of the web, I believe that TG folk (including some CDs) show more propensity to variance that 'normal' folk... you may just be one of those that muses or fantasises about male attraction without ever making it reality... only you can ultimately determine that.

I do not believe any shrink would categorise anyone gay or bisexual, just because they have 'wondered' or fantasised...

One does have to ask the question: if we put all this effort into looking good as our crossgender and it isn't solely for ourselves, then who is it for...??? :thinking:

Katey x

[paulaprimo]

i know many girls who feel the same way as you, myself included.
you have the right to feel anyway you like. other people will label you but labels are for cans...
but if you have to have a label you are bi. but as long as you are happy
and nobody's getting hurt, wear it and enjoy it! :)

[Wildaboutheels]

You already answered this question [AFTER 389 other people did] VVV

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?208133-So-Just-how-straight-of-a-guy-are-you

I will never figure out why so many CDers obsess over labels.

Perhaps they have never heard this song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMdcgSi5t8k

[Lorileah]

I have a couple questions.

1) does this bother you? and why?

2) does it matter in any manner?

The first question pertains to your personal perspective. It appears that you are either someone who fantasizes being a "total" woman which would under routine circumstances cause you to want to be with a man or you are bi. That is how you imagine it should be. It isn't how you really feel inside (have you tried it? Was it all you expected. Would you do it again without reservation?). The second question is will it change your life or who you are? Will it shorten your life or extend it? Will it make you happy or unhappy. Will it clear up things or muddle them more? Does it change how people around you will perceive you?

I was a TA for human sexuality in college. One thing we always tried to tell people is that your feelings for a gender or another or both are NATURAL. We said nothing is 100% ever. (death and taxes excluded). You may be 99.9% hetero nut there is a little tiny part of you who appreciates the male in some manner (what body type are you attracted t? The swimmer the football player the movie star?...there is some type of male that catches your eye) That doesn't mean you would enjoy sex with a man,but that you do have some innate feelings toward that look. Most people will say they are on on end of the spectrum or the other. And they will live their whole life at that end. That is fine, you will live a good life. Others will question this occasionally. Most of those will decide it isn't really what they want but more what they dream or fantasize about. Trust me most fantasies are nowhere NEAR reality. Some will try it and decide it wasn't what they want. Others will try it an decide it is exactly what they want. But you will know the strength of you feelings before you dive in.

Now to give my personal opinion on this. You are probably not gay, but IF you engage in sexual activity while dressed and enjoy it and crave it (even when just dressed) you are Bi. No way around it, you can't turn it on and off like a switch. You suppress it but it is there. There is a famous phase that goes with this. "Just because you drive a race car one time doesn't make you a race driver...but " Look it up :) I would say don't sweat it. Take if from someone who played that game for years...it isn't all it's cracked up to be. All I ask is one thing. No matter who you sleep with, be safe and be smart.

[Jenniferathome]

OK, but so what? All I see in your post is some justification that you are "normal." There is still a thread running on "how straight a guy are you?" This comes up all the time here. It is always a justification of some kind. To whom is this justification needed?

Still, I can promise you that the majority of humans on earth would disagree with your premise.

[Nadine Spirit]

I never, but NEVER, use butter, EXCEPT when I eat freshly boiled lobster. So, does that make me a "butternut"?

No it makes you unaware of what an absolute is. You can't say I never, except. A better way would be "I only eat butter when I eat lobster." It does not make you a "butternut" but it does make you an eater of butter.

If you have sex with only women, that makes you heterosexual. If you have sex with only men, that makes you homosexual (gay.) If you have sex with both, then you are bisexual. It really does not matter how you are dressed or when you do these activities, if you do them, then this is how you are defined. Does the sound of the definitions upset you? Bummer. It is what it is.

A banana is still a banana even if you don't like calling it such.

There is nothing wrong with being a banana and their is nothing wrong with which gender you choose to have sex with.

[Jenniferathome]

"an eater of butter." That just sounds so funny when I say it! Well put analogy.

[flatlander_48]

As we have seen here many times, one of the first (if not THE first) questions that people ask upon learning that we crossdress is "Are you gay?". Society has a difficult time with anything outside of a binary representation of sexuality. As crossdressers, I think we often fall victim to that thought process. After all, we are also part of the population. Given that I accepted that I was a bisexual long before the idea of corssdressing occurred to me, my perspective will probably be a bit different.

Many people here STRONGLY reject the possibility that they fall under the LGBT umbrella. They want nothing to do with it, in spite of the fact that it is a broad category with many facets. As a group we're called Sexual Minorities. It is just how it is. There is some part of us that is different from most people. What you DO is just a small part of it. Most of it has to do with how you think, from which perspective do you view the world, how you align yourself politically and how you form relationships (friendships AND romantic ones). Who you are screwing is just one facet of many.

I think what happens when we dress (or even think about it) is that it opens a door to some part of ourselves that is rarely, if ever, seen. More than likely it is more in line with our true selves and not how we thought of ourselves previously. Once you open that door, it is very hard to shut it. I think only fear has enough power to do that; fear of what our lives would look like that on the other side of the door. For many, that can be a tremendous lever as it can effect your family, your job, etc. and not just how you think of yourself.

Anyway, this is a journey. There is no time table regarding at what point we reach acceptance and make decisions.

[Badtranny]

...and if any of Cheryl's friends were to find out that she "luvs doing girl stuff" then she would absolutely be gay in their minds.

Of course she isn't into "gay rights" or any of that stuff. In fact, I'll betcha a dollar she doesn't even believe in "gay rights" which I refer to simply as equal rights.

[Sara Jessica]

I guess when one defines their being, they can get by without having to do any heavy lifting.

[janetcgtv]

Cheryl:

You are BI no ifs, ands, or buts about this.
If you go bed with both men and women you are physically BI.
This is society's attitude.

You think of yourself as a women and go to bed with a man which is normal for most TG's
Whereon if you like it or not, you are a member of the rainbow coalition. and fight for your rights. Everyone should have equal rights. PERIOD.

[CherylFlint]

See, I knew I wouldn’t be able to express myself clearly.
No, I’m not “afraid” and there is no “right” or “wrong”. No being “bothered” about it.
Actually, Cheryl actually acts on her desire to be with men, for real, up close and personal.
I just wondered if any other CD has successfully compartmentalized the whole boy/girl thing as successfully as I, that’s all.
For me, it makes the whole thing so obvious, easy and straightforward.
Boys like girls.
Girls like boys.
And THAT’S it!
I’ve been a CD all of my life (30+ years), and metamorphosed (right word?) to what I am today. It suits me just fine. It’s fun. It relaxes me and I’m really happy that I have the fun that I have. If I had a wish to give you all, it be I hope you all have a great time dressing but, above all, stay safe and HAVE A GOOD TIME!

[Kathryn Martin]

Maybe, but then again, maybe not.
It's all not so cut and dry, black and white, as we would like it to be.
I never, but NEVER, use butter, EXCEPT when I eat freshly boiled lobster. So, does that make me a "butternut"?

I think from your post and comments you seem to be very afraid that someone might call you gay. If you are attracted to men and women depending on how you present maybe you're bi-sexual. That would make sense don't you think.

[Simone's Lil' Sis]

But when I’m dressed, I like guys.
Cheryl,
Being concerned with 'gay rights' or 'rainbow' stuff is not a prerequisite to being Gay. I like all animals (except cats), but I am not a Member of PETA or The Humane Society.
You might want to reconsider.

[Tracii G]

I'm totally confused sorry.

[mechamoose]

Cheryl:

If I like someone, I will play with them regardless of their bits, so that removes the 'gay' portion of this discussion. I guess it comes down to reference points, then.. where is your head parked while you admire this or that?

When I feel like a girl, I find studly men more attractive. When I'm feeling like a guy, I'm checking out those pretty, curvy bits. I *love* both, but I admit to doing more of one or the other depending on my mood. My bits or orientation don't come into it.

I know I'm an odd case, I'm an 'in between' person. But maybe my perspective can help some of you.

<3

- MM

[Zylia]

If you have sex with only women, that makes you heterosexual. If you have sex with only men, that makes you homosexual (gay.) If you have sex with both, then you are bisexual. It really does not matter how you are dressed or when you do these activities, if you do them, then this is how you are defined. Does the sound of the definitions upset you? Bummer. It is what it is.
I'd think it's about romantic and sexual attraction, not necessarily about who you have sex with. As a matter of fact (and the topic starter is a perfect example), many cross-dressers aren't really romantically or sexually attracted to men and are not interested in having a relationship with a man (unlike, say, gay men). They're mostly into having sex with men with themselves in the female role and with a female presentation (more or less). This might sound nit-picky, unless you're actually gay. Anyway, I think it's fair to say that the topic starter is not a gay or even a bisexual man, just heterosexual with a kink.

[susanmiller64]

Just my thoughts. If you have male parts and like people with female parts you are straight. If you like people with the same body parts as you then you are gay. If you like people no matter what body parts they have then you are Bi. It has nothing to do with how you dress or present yourself.
That being said what does it really matter? I am straight but I am sure 90% of people who see me out dressed and don’t know me probably think I am gay, or transsexual. Who cares what others think? All that really matters is what I think, being true to myself and who I am. I am a man who loves to dress as a woman and present that way. If people want to get to know me then they learn who I am. I gave up a long time ago worrying about labels people use.
Also one can support a group without being a member of it, I support breast cancer although I have never had it, or you can be a part of a group and not actively support it. we are who we are.

[Nadine Spirit]

I just wondered if any other CD has successfully compartmentalized the whole boy/girl thing as successfully as I, that’s all.
For me, it makes the whole thing so obvious, easy and straightforward.
Boys like girls.
Girls like boys.
And THAT’S it!



I think you are explaining yourself clearly, I just think I totally disagree with your view of success in this area.

Zylia - I agree with the idea of attraction vs sex.

[Jorja]

So the question is, who cares if Cheryl is straight, gay, or bi? It is none of our business. Cheryl will do what Cheryl likes and we have no say in that. Go, have fun, enjoy life the way you want to enjoy it.

[mechamoose]

Crikey!

If you like someone enough, why does it *matter* what gender they are or how they present? Relationships are about alignment, trust & tolerance. WTF does it matter the chassis they inhabit? Did they (or you) get the chance to pick that?

We are talking about finding a person to share your life with... that depends FAR more on personality than genetics!

I wish the world would get it's head out of it's a$$ on this one.

- MM

[cindi_in_satin]

When I'm dressed as cindi, I am a woman and desire to be with a man. In RT, I'm straight, and married. I'm comfortable with my sexuality and not afraid of labels like bi or gay. We're all human and there's too much hatred in this world.

[paulaprimo]

like the ivory soap girl from back in the day, i like to say i'm 99 and 44/100's straight :)

but i do love zylis's description...

just heterosexual with a kink.

or even better i like the phrase, heterosexual with a wink, another wink, a cough and then another cough...

does anybody really care??? just be you and enjoy!!

[Vickie_CDTV]

Strictly speaking, not all gay people are activists or are into "rainbow things" (like pride parades or gay clubs etc.) I have known gay men who live private lives and on one hand do not lie about their sexuality but also prefer not to be public about it, and there are some who are just not interested in the mainstream gay culture.

[ClosetED]

Cheryl, you need to clarify your desires in regards to men when dressed - you want to "be with men, for real, up close and personal."
Does that mean you want them to hold you, hug you, dance with you, stroke your arm, your legs, to compliment your body, or to strip off your clothes and put their male organ into one of your orifices? (I could use medical terms or vulgar, but went with euphemisms - I'm a lady)
Do you desire a man's affirmation of your femininity or to have sex with them?
Big difference to my mind.

Ellen

[Eryn]

I don't see much need for labeling, but we seem to enjoy talking about it.

I don't really see my male and female sides as separate. I'm the same person either way.

I may act differently depending upon how I am dressed, but take a refined gentleman out of his Brooks Brothers suit, put him into leathers and put a Harley between his legs and you'll also see a behavior change.

In male mode I'm hetero. In female mode I'm not really interested in sexuality. I prefer the company of females but I'm focused on socializing, not sex.

I'm not terribly worried about being slapped with a "gay" label as I've discovered that in the public view there are things more scandalous that that. Men wearing women's clothing leaps to mind... :lol:

What I do know is that all the LGBTQLSMFT community should stick together. Even if we don't have the same specific interests we have the same enemies and we need to band together against them.

[ReineD]

OK. I've read the OP's post very carefully, as well as a very similar post from June 2013. And nowhere does he (she?) suggest that s/he has actually had sex with men. S/he just likes them when dressed, which I take to be only at the fantasy level. This does not a bi or gay man make. :p


That said, of course there's nothing wrong with being gay!

I think that sexual preference should be looked on as a language. Some people speak french, some speak english, and others are bilingual. One is not better or worse than the other.

I find it odd though, that one should change sexual preference based on presentation. So what happens when the CDer is naked? Does he then become asexual? I don't think so.

I wonder if sexual preference ever changes at all when dressed … if the man himself does NOT arouse a hetero CD, but rather the arousal stems from the idea that the CD is playing the sexual role of a woman. What better way to enjoy the fantasy of being sexually female than to imagine oneself having sex as a woman with a man? I should think it would be easier to imagine this scenario than to imagine oneself as a lesbian with a woman. CDs don't as a rule have a fundamental female gender identity from which they can totally identify as lesbian.

To the CDers who say they are attracted to men only when dressed, I wonder if many of you habitually have sex with men when you are dressed (I'm not talking about having tried it once or twice), or if you are in a relationship with a male with whom you regularly have sex. To those of you who have regular sexual relations with men, can you honestly say that you are not attracted to them when you are naked or when you are dressed in a pair of blue jeans? Again, I emphasize the word "regular". Habitual. As a rule, and not once or twice two years ago that still forms the basis for fantasy.

If you don't have sex with men regularly, then isn't this discussion moot? Doesn't the notion of having sex with a male live only in fantasy? If a hetero CD fantasizes about having sex with men, then in my opinion he is still hetero. And I think he would be turned off with the actual outcome, should it ever come to pass. The reality of being two male-bodied individuals having sex together tends to shatter hetero-CD fantasies.

[mechamoose]

I *have* had sex with men. (Hot, yummy men)

Get beyond the hormonal stuff, and they are just as 'needy' as girls.

They want the same things... validation, encouragement, support.

Sure, guys are wired to be aggressive, that doesn't mean that they don't understand sensitivity.

They just need a *safe* space to express it.

- MM

[Isabella Ross]

I have to go back to Dr. Alice Novic (or Dr. Richard Novic, depending on what's being worn at any given time). You can read what Dr. Novic says about this at www.aliceingenderland.com but the essence of what she believes is in this quote below:

"Today’s first question is Am I gay? The short answer is No, you're not, but you’re not exactly straight either.

To me and to most gay men, being gay describes a specific thing. It ‘s more like saying “He’s Mexican,” rather than “He’s definitely not from around here.” As a crossdresser, you’re clearly not gay in the sense of wanting to be a man sexually with a man and all the stuff that so often comes with it, like a head-spinning appreciation for the male form, an Oscar-Wilde-like wit, and a passion for fashion and celebrities. Oh, sure you may be loving all the little nuances of ladies’ clothing, but that’s not the same thing. Just the simple fact you call yourself a crossdresser means that you’re not gay, for most people (and specifically me in part 1 of this series) define crossdresser as a primarily straight man who is profoundly satisfied to imagine himself as a woman. So, you’re fundamentally heterosexual on some level or sorely misusing the term crossdresser.

But, are you completely straight? Well, hey, to answer that question I first owe you a definition of the term straight. Completely straight, or completely heterosexual describes a man who is only interested in sex as a man with a woman. You, my dear reader, may—despite your crossdressing consider yourself such a man, only for that to change—if you’re lucky—as opportunities present themselves. What if you had the chance to make like lipstick lesbians with your wife, another beautiful woman, a breathtaking transsexual, or another nice-looking crossdresser? Or what about my favorite: getting to be a sweet, slender girl in the arms of some giant of a man?"

My take? If we're TG, we're probably bi in some way. Is there anything wrong with that, or do we even need to care about this label? I don't think so. Too many labels in this world, too many fearful people, too much hate. Live and let live.

[Katey888]

Bridgette - you beat me to the punchline with your closing para... I don't often post twice but I found a very interesting (and old!) link to an article on sexuality and gender spectrum - it is easy to read, brief and worth reading: http://lacigreen.tv/sexplus/sexuality/4502-problems-with-the-kinsey-scale

Many of the issues I think we face are that so many of us are scared to accept we just may not be an absolute 0.0000 on the Kinsey scale. In fact most researchers now accept that NOBODY is at 0.0000 on that scale... and I do think we TG folk are more likely to be 'dynamic' as far as that scale goes, than Muggles... Does that mean we're all gay or bi...? No - it doesn't... And if we could just accept that 'spectrum' for all of us, accepting what might otherwise be perceived as strange or confused sexual behaviour might become a lot easier...

I've found it a lot easier to accept my own feelings once I accepted that my CDing is part of being on the TG spectrum, wherever that may be... doesn't mean I'm wanting to run off and transition at all - but it helps me understand why I do what I do...

Katey x

[LelaK]

I've long considered myself a "male" lesbian. It's my body, not me, that's "male". I, my identity, is not strictly feminine, but largely so and partly asexual (or angel).

I'd never have anal sex with anyone, but vaginal may be acceptable, and maybe oral sex with anyone who appears feminine enough would be too.

So let's name and define all the subcategories. Okay?

[Tina_gm]

I find this "difference" fascinating. Certainly one that has been brought up before. Dressed as a girl I feel one way, dressed as a guy I feel another way....


Only speaking for myself, my dressing is for a singular purpose. to connect the inner with the exterior. Nothing else changes at all. I am not judging anyone different than myself. I merely like everything the same, including my sexual orientation. If I was single, my tastes in women would not change let alone my orientation. same food, music, sports... nothing changes other than the clothes I wear when I change them from male to female. I just connect myself to my femininity outwardly.

[Susan.]

My therapist will only say I am "dynamic".

[Jennifer Devine]

Just because you dress yourself up as a woman does not mean you are gay.
They are two completely different things.

[Kimberly Kael]

I think the sexuality aspect of this has been well covered by others, but the whole mindset of not being concerned about gay rights / rainbow stuff? All that says to me is that you're so afraid someone might think you're gay that you refuse to help your fellow human beings, not to mention yourself. The pride movement is about acceptance of sexual diversity, not promoting any one specific path as the right one. We all benefit from opening hearts and minds to alternative orientations and identities.

[Isabella Ross]

Well said, Kimberly.

[Alice Torn]

We live in "group think" times. I choose just to be me, love me or hate me. It is ok to "walk alone." I am an individual, too complex to be put in a box. So are you. Though you may fit a lot of descriptions, and labels.

[Badtranny]

We live in "group think" times..

Oh please. There has never been a time of greater celebration of diversity and individualism than today. If you don't think the '60s were suffering from a bit of "group think" than your prescription has run out, or you just have a selective memory.

There are certain people, usually a certain kind of people, who complain incessantly about everything from the internet to the economy. "these times" are the greatest times in recorded history. We have witnessed amazing advancements in medicine and technology that were actually, literally, science fiction only 30 years ago.

My people (queers and trannies) are enjoying unprecedented acceptance and equality despite a rather loud and persistent opposition from guess who.

"group think" times indeed.

[LelaK]

Group Think Indeed

There is some acceptance of diversity, but it may be superficial. Most liberals, I think, can't tolerate alternative views on global warming and most conservatives can't tolerate alternative views on terrorism. Etc. A person like me with alternative views on everything doesn't seem to fit in well anywhere.

[Andy66]

Oh, please. I never had sex with that woman (or man) only works for politicians.

If I like to get rip roaring drunk and get up to mischief every Sunday night, I can tell myself it wasnt me. It was my alter ego Aloysius Tiberius Lumpybottom... but guess what? If Aloysius gets hurt falling from a barstool, spends his last dime, gets arrested for getting sick on a cops shoes, or catches a disease, it affects Andy just as much... because we are the SAME PERSON.

[johnboy23]

I say quit worrying about labels and just be you. However if you want to worry about labels then it all depends on how you view yourself. Are you a man that crossdresses, are you a trans women? If your the crossdresser then your bi and if you are trans and haven't had gender reassignment surgery then your still bi. Until you stick with just one then you'll be bi. Like I said quit worrying about labels and just say you love everyone. That's what I would say if someone asked me who I'm sexual attracted to.

[kimdl93]

I'm not attracted to men. There was a time when I figured I must be gay...I was a CDr. Bought into the prevailing prejudice.

Now I can proudly say I am not gay....not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Darlabtg]

I find this "difference" fascinating. Certainly one that has been brought up before. Dressed as a girl I feel one way, dressed as a guy I feel another way....

I feel the same way which is why I also avoid labels.

[PaulaQ]

I don't think labels like gay or straight apply very well to many of us on the transgender spectrum.

Let's suppose one identifies at first as a CD, and is attracted to men. This person later transitions, but still likes men. She's now straight. (This may be eye opening since she may have spent little time in the straight world.) What really changed in all this? It is, after all the same people involved in the relationship.

Or consider my situation. I've always been attracted to women. I married two of them! Since I started transition, that would make me a lesbian. Except I'm attracted to men now, too. So I'm bisexual now, right? Except I'm not attracted to cisgender women, just trans. So what in the hell is that?

So for that reason, I simply use the term "queer" to describe myself. (And believe me, it applies to me.)

I think a lot of us have difficulty accepting that we aren't straight, exactly. I sure did. Heck, now I'd like to be a nice straight girl. But I am far from that.

[Joy3]

I too have no interest in men when in drab! However when dressed very definitely am interested. I consider myself bi definitely!

[sometimes_miss]

I will never figure out why so many CDers obsess over labels.
Easy. Because we're trained to hate ourselves. So our minds have to use all kinds of mental tricks to avoid feeling bad about that, such as pretending that there's another personality there but that it's not really us. Which is, of course, bullsh!t.

This phenomenon is just a perfect example of how our society infects our minds with hate, even to hate ourselves. It's simple. if you're attracted to men, and you are a man, that's homosexuality. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!!! NOTHING! You don't have to try to distance yourself from it in your own mind by telling yourself that 'Well, it's only when I'm dressed up and pretending to be a girl, I'm not REALLY gay, I'm really just a normal man' or anything like that. It's part of your personality.
It's o.k. to be gay. Repeat that 100 times. It rhymes. Make it a chant, say it silently in your head if you're worried about how the rest of the world will think.
It's times like this that I get really, really pissed off at the religious groups that tell all their followers to raise all the children to hate other people just because they're different, including hating themselves such as like what we have with this type of situation. It sucks. And it really has to stop.

[LilSissyStevie]

I wouldn't worry about it. The "bi when dressed" or more exactly "androphilia when dressed" fantasy is one of the most common emasculation fantasies that CDs have. I doubt that one in 100 ever go through with it in real life and few that do ever develop romantic feelings for the man. The man in these fantasies is essentially a living dildo. Is that gay? Who cares. It's just harmless fun as long as it doesn't negatively impact more important areas of your life.

[im-sparkles]

It seems simple to me. If you have sex with only females your straight. If so with only men theen your gay.If you do with both then your bi.If you only think about men when your dressed its just a fantasy .Even if you try it a time or two and don't like and never do again i don't think that makes you gay or bi either .I know that Im bi because i've had sex with both occasionally over the years. I've never been with a man while dressed either. Im attracted to both weather im dressed or not.However i would like to while all dolled up sometime lol.

[TanyaWonder]

LilSissyStevie, I consider myself CD and what ur saying definitely applies to myself.

Making love to a girl, she is the object of attraction.

However, Ive been with a guy twice (as a girl). It was always about me, the guy was there just to allow his toy, I was my own object of attraction. Strange, narcisstic feeling, requiring a mirror :idontknow: So, I figure I might not be that bi how I thought, even though the fantasies continue and I may end up with a guy, no arguing about that. Im just not attracted to men themselves, but to the idea of me being with a man.

Also, Ive noticed that being dressed en femme around my girlfriend makes it kind of redundant (I recall someone from here who wrote something about crossdressing emulating the contact with a real girl in CDs brains :)

Final thought: **** labels.

[NicoleScott]

I never, but NEVER, use butter, EXCEPT when I eat freshly boiled lobster. So, does that make me a "butternut"?

If so, then you may be a squash.

Crossdressing often sets the fantasy gears in motion. When transforming into the image of woman, it's fun and exciting to imagine being a woman, even knowing better than to really believe it.
It takes both the desire and the act to define a person as a crossdresser. A one-time wearing a dress as a costume or a person who may want to dress but never did can't be called a crossdresser as we know it. Likewise, fantasizing doesn't make you gay or bi - it takes the desire and the act. The act doesn't require a sexual encounter, but at least a romantic or physical attraction.
You aren't defined by your thoughts, but by those thoughts put into action.

[Tracii G]

I have dabbled with both and if I found the right guy I could be happy in a relationship.
Its more about the person.

[LesliePinky]

If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)

[Pïnk Lipton]

If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)

In my mind, there isn't a connection between crossdressing & your sexuality. I'm attracted to men, whether I'm wearing a dress or sweatpants.
So to be brutally honest, I think that you're being a bit ignorant, Leslie. Many crossdressers consider themselves straight, so I don't really see how your point is valid in any way.

Now, regarding the actual topic, I think that it's different for everybody. You can crossdress and be completely straight, -gay or have your sexuality change when you adapt the role of the opposite sex.
(Pssst, come closer. I'll tell you a secret~ There really isn't that much more to it, since you make the calls when it comes to your sexuality. No-one else can determine it for you.) :)

[Michelle789]

First I want to say that I really love this thread, and the thought provoking discussion that we're able to have.


First perhaps is to realize there is nothing wrong with being either gay or bi then you might be able to analyze where you are

Society tells us that being anything other than straight and cis is a sin, and we often convince ourselves that we must conform to the rigid boxes society places us on. The reality is it is perfectly okay to be attracted to whoever you are attracted to, and society as a whole is becoming increasingly more accepting of diversity.


My people (queers and trannies) are enjoying unprecedented acceptance and equality despite a rather loud and persistent opposition from guess who

This probably depends on where you are. I would probably say that in most of Texas, Idaho, deep south, middle east, no, LGBT people face MAJOR discrimination, even the possibility of being murdered, in those states or countries. In San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York City, and in general major cities in the western world, I would say yes it is the best time ever to be LGBT. Much of our experiences we have in being out crossdressers or transsexuals will be affected by what part of the world we live in.

In spite of the fact that some parts of the world still need to play catch up, I would say that traditionally conservative individuals and groups are becoming more and more accepting of LGBT people.

1. Several years ago, during the whole prop 8 battle, lots of gays got married legally before prop 8 and it's ban on gay marriage was passed. I attended such a gay wedding, and it was in a conservative Jewish synagogue.

2. I have a transwoman friend who told me that when she attended her father's funeral in the Mormon church, that the Mormon minister of the church was not only accepting of her being trans, but also said that he hopes and believes someday that the Mormon church would be fully accepting of transgender people.

3. I came out to a very staunch, Tea Party, conservative Republican, who was totally cool with and supportive of me being trans.


Or consider my situation. I've always been attracted to women. I married two of them! Since I started transition, that would make me a lesbian. Except I'm attracted to men now, too. So I'm bisexual now, right? Except I'm not attracted to cisgender women, just trans. So what in the hell is that?


So for that reason, I simply use the term "queer" to describe myself. (And believe me, it applies to me.)

Actually, there is a term called pansexual. I typed in pansexual definition into Google, and here is what I got.


not limited in sexual choice with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity.

My understand of pansexual is it means that you are attracted to the person or to the soul, without regards or bias to the body or body parts.

I know plenty of people in the trans community who identify as pansexual, and who feel that the pansexual orientation best describes themselves and other trans people. Sometimes I feel like pansexual has become synonymous with transgender, although that is not accurate, because sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate variables.

[Rhonda Jean]

Amusing. Amusing that a male who wears women's clothes finds it so afraid that someone might think he's gay. I'm not offended by that. I just find it amusing.

I gets a little less than amusing when it's said in condescending way. Like, "Don't confuse me with any of THOSE people". Like you're better than me. If you don't want people to think you're gay you really should re-think being a crossdresser, because that's what people think. Oh, and the whole "only when I'm dressed so it doesn't really count" thing. Try telling that to the credit card company after your next fem shopping spree.

[flatlander_48]

Yes, but you have to remember that is how society at large thinks of us. The only way that they can process Crossdresser is to link it with being gay, unfortunately. As I understand, the largest constituency among us is straight males, but what you would likely hear is: "You can't tell me that anyone who wears...". Because of this reaction, it could be that there is a backlash within our community.

[LesliePinky]

In my world and in the world of realists its not ignorant my dear its just plain up brutally honest with urself

Just simple logic , if your not gay then dnt crossdress on a cnstant basis lol, even a kid or a granpa will tell u dat

[Sara Jessica]

If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)

I don't give a hoot what people perceive of me when I'm out & about. If they perceive trans, then whatever. If that equates to gay, whatever. I'm with Rhonda and it doesn't matter in the least bit. But to make a statement as you have done, wearing a skirt on a constant basis (what constitutes constant???) = gay (no ifs, no buts, etc. yadda yadda yadda)...seriously, you have a lot of learning to do.

[Katey888]

Leslie's expressing a perspective from a different cultural background and while it may not align with yours, she's not being rude or personalising this discussion...

Try to think for a moment about her background and a culture that prominently features Ladyboys, a thriving (and foreign fuelled) sex industry and perhaps you can cut her some slack...?

It's an opinion - nothing more... :)

Oh - and stick to the OP too.

Katey
Moderator

[Rogina B]

Going back to the ORIGIN of the discussion..I only wish that people would be more comfortable with themselves and their feelings and far less worried on how others view it.It just isn't good to try to compartmentalize or justify your inner feelings..not worth it. "Bi Curious" often describes an "interest in experimenting" with it and "Pansexual" is a nice term that describes it when the "experiment" is over and you find that"you like it"...lol

[ReluctantDebutant]

If you ask the average guy on the street if he would cross-dress for a year he would probably say no. If you offer him a million dollars to do so and he does, what does that say about him? It says that he wants a million dollars. When doing something is contingent on something else it just means that what the act is contingent on is more desired then the actual act. If you fantasize about being with men only when you fantasize about being a woman and never as a man. I would say it just means you are really turned on about the idea of being a woman and experiencing things from a woman's perspective. I highly doubt you are gay, just really imaginative. I think this probably happens to a lot of us cross-dressers.

[Krisi]

Just dressing like a woman does not change who you are. Saying or thinking that strapping on a pair of boobs and a wig changes your sexual orientation is silly. Regardless of how you are dressed, if you are a male and have sex with other males, you are gay or bi-sexual. Not that there's anything wrong with that, those terms describe your sexual orientation.

I think most crossdressers fantasize being a female and having sex with a male but that's as far as we take it.

[CastleCD907]

I agree if your a guy who enjoys wearing women's underwear, dresses, etc it doesn't necessarily mean your gay. I have a few fellow CD's whom are very straight but they enjoy crossdressing for the sheer excitement of it all. I on the other hand am bi, I like women but I also enjoy being the lady and pleasing my male friends who loves his CD lover.

[NicoleScott]

I re-read the OP and can't find anything indicating Cheryl believes there's anything wrong with being gay. We should know by now that sexual preferences and gender identity and presentations aren't the polar opposites we were taught and society at large wants to believe it should be. And so we ask questions and use labels to try to understand ourselves. Have we become so PC that we can't even ask a question without someone assuming an underlying prejudice?

[LesliePinky]

Im just stating my opinion i know ur country well i know black friday sale, evrything is bigger in txas, swampy florida, so my opnion is not really bec of my background or what i see here etc... Im jst sayin tht is my prsonal opinion hehe love or hate it well we dont see women wearing shorts , mens shirt or suits,or fake beard and moustache in public just for the thrill of it dont we?

[SusanaO]

Just as I believe there is a continuous spectrum of sexual orientation, I also believe there's a continous spectrum in gender identity. However, I do think they are mutually exclusive. That said, here's my response to the original post:

I consider myself a 2 on the Kinsey Scale. Though I'm technically bisexual by definition, I still identify as mostly straight, and straight being an approximation. However, although I only date women, I have had a few experieces with men that I have enjoyed, but not in girl mode.

Though it has been few times I have actually been out in guy mode, I have noticed men checking me out, and I do find it arousing. Not that I have a sexual attraction towards those men, but it's the fact that they find me worth checking out (mini skirt and heels, and funny they pretend they're not looking hehe). I think I may end up wanting to experiment with men while in guy mode out of curiousity. But for the time being, I prefer to be girly with girls.

So, back to the OP: no, logically that does not make you gay. But let's assume it does... who cares? Remember, while in guy mode we try to pretend we're not looking at each other's penises in the men's room - but even if we do look - does that make us gay?

[Jocelyn Quivers]

If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)

OMG wearing a skirt on a constant basis really does make me gay?!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYTHING BUT THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Insert "Your Gay" Dr. Drew sound bite from Love Lines.

[mechamoose]

Crossdressing often sets the fantasy gears in motion. When transforming into the image of woman, it's fun and exciting to imagine being a woman, even knowing better than to really believe it.

If I may, a minor adjustment.

Crossdressing drops an artificial barrier. We put our head into that 'other space'

The biggest sexual organ in the human body is the BRAIN.

If putting on girly things helps us access that part of ourselves that feels like that, then so be it. It is a technique, a tool. In the same way that meditation helps us reach a new place that we normally have a hard time reaching.

It is all US, honey. No need to feel judgmental about that.

- MM

[Talisker]

Think Zyila nailed it again. You probably have common sexual kink.

If you want to think of yourself as straight again and don't like the gay thought find a woman who likes to CD to be your boyfriend on dates........ or stop caring about labels.

[ReineD]

If putting on girly things helps us access that part of ourselves that feels like that, then so be it. It is a technique, a tool. In the same way that meditation helps us reach a new place that we normally have a hard time reaching.

This is not true for everyone.

Can't speak for medication, but the CDing does help some CDers become someone else. So there are indeed two different perspectives on the matter. Likely, both are correct depending on whether the individual is TS or not … although it is my understanding that generally TSs don't become different people when they dress, with different personalities, preferences, and sexual orientations.

I used to drink a lot. I used to think that when I drank, the truth that I daren't have spoken when sober came out … a lowering of inhibitions so to speak. Now that I don't drink anymore, I see that it was all BS. The drinking actually turned me into a person who wasn't fundamentally me.

[mechamoose]

Thanks Reine, I need to think on that for a bit.

I know I'm in a different place than most members here, and I have a hard time putting myself into a more 'limited' (no slight intended) place.

To me, I do change personalities a bit when I dress. When I'm overstressed, putting on a skirt helps me relax. When I'm looking for 'receptive' intimacy instead of 'projective' intimacy, it is easier when I'm wearing frills. I still feel both parts, but the clothing helps nudge my mood.

On some levels I'd equate it on dressing for work. Your headspace is different in 'professional' clothing than it is in 'comfy' clothing.

- MM

[ReineD]

Mechamoose, if putting on different clothing changes your mood, then maybe it is not about gender identity?



On some levels I'd equate it on dressing for work. Your headspace is different in 'professional' clothing than it is in 'comfy' clothing.


About the headspace: I recently started working again after many years of wearing mostly jeans at home. So now I wear skirts and dresses a lot because this best fits the way that other women in my position dress … not too casual, not too dressy, certainly not trendy or fashion plate, in other words the goal is to not distract from the matters at hand with appearance. Truthfully this does not in the slightest degree change my mood or my headspace. The only difference is that now I go to work prepared to put in a 9-10 hour day and I'm gearing myself up for not having as much freedom and down time as I did before, which has nothing to do with the way I dress. If I was working in a creative/casual-type environment where everyone wore blue-jeans and Tshirts, this is what I would wear as well and it would also not affect my attitude or work habits.

[mechamoose]

Reine:

I get your take as a 'transformative' CD person. (please correct me if I am wrong) You are seeking to live a 'she' version of life.

That isn't where I'm coming from. I'm never going to 'pass'.. more importantly, 'passing' isn't my goal. I want to be a guy in eyeliner, toe rings and nice clothing and not have that FU#&Ing matter.

- MM

[JayeLefaye]

Reine:

I get your take as a 'transformative' CD person. (please correct me if I am wrong) You are seeking to live a 'she' version of life.

That isn't where I'm coming from. I'm never going to 'pass'.. more importantly, 'passing' isn't my goal. I want to be a guy in eyeliner, toe rings and nice clothing and not have that FU#&Ing matter.

- MM

I have to agree with MM here(dammit, I HATE when that happens)...HYPHEN ALERT: Your basic-semi-well-adjusted-hetero-CDer just wants to feel pretty sometimes. I think of us as bi-genders, at least after we get past the fetish stage...And it's not always just "pretty", sometimes actually, it's "gentle". In the real world, I am known far and wide as the gentlest dude around. When out socially(ie: church, dances, parties etc), old friends, guys, gals,& little ol' ladies, seek me out because they want a hug, and they know that I'm the best frickin' hugger in any given room....And that hugging isn't necessarily gender related. But I have to "present" as a guy out there, gentle though I may be:-)....So, dressing for me, like MM, IS a way for me to relax, in the sense that I can let my hair down...And whether I pass or not doesn't really matter...I also meditate, take long walks in the woods, and have been known to set my alarm for 3:00 a.m so that I can simply sit on the back deck and listen to the stars go by because the hour between 3:00 & 4:00 a.m. is the most magical hour in the day.

Whoops, I'm rambling....Who I am is not defined by what I wear, but here's where I agree with MM...Wouldn't it be a lovely world where what you wear isn't what defines/judges you, but is simply what you feel like wearing on any given day?

But to answer the original question...Yeah, sometimes when I dress, I fantasize about being a sl*t and think yeah, I would do anyone & everything!!!!....Not totally unlike Mick Jagger:-), but sl*ttiness isn't in my genetic makeup...Which is probably just as well...So whether I'm in drab or en femme, or a combination, I try to remember what MM says about the bodies organs; the brain is the strongest, and I try to consciously keep my blood flowing up there, because otherwise, lower chakras take over, and who needs that???

Jaye

[SO1Adam12]

Yes, but you have to remember that is how society at large thinks of us. The only way that they can process Crossdresser is to link it with being gay, unfortunately. As I understand, the largest constituency among us is straight males, but what you would likely hear is: "You can't tell me that anyone who wears...". Because of this reaction, it could be that there is a backlash within our community.

Hmmm....interesting. Although I will agree that the majority of society assumes a CDer, whether male to female or female to male is a homosexual (admitting I that until recently I was one of the majority) I think CDers are much moire likely to suffer negative backlash than gay/lesbians. My understanding is there is even prejudice against CDers in the gay/lesbian community. The truth is, this subject is misunderstood within the CD/TG group. The gay/lesbian community has made tremendous strides of acceptance. Yes, they still have a long way to go, but CDing is still a much more unclear subject to say the least. There are several sub-categories of CDing and until they become defined, it will be even harder for society to accept. The truth is I'm not sure gay/lesbian is an issue. The word I have heard most often is not one I like to share in general, let alone here.

I agree with several of the other posts, that having a desire to be with a male while dressed as a female but not while dressed as male is just a way of compartmentalizing those feelings. I would believe they exist within your mind all the time but you only allow yourself to bring them to the forefront while dressed as a female because on some level you find that acceptable. Who the heck cares anyway. I think many CDers here over-analyze their actions, behavior and appearance when dressed as a female vs. male.

A PB & J sandwich is still a PB & J whether on white bread or wheat bread.

[lpjamey]

When in male mode I truly love all things female, no doubt, 100% love'em. When I dress never think about men only women, so I guess I'm a lesbian? Hell I don't know, I have no problem with being gay I've tried oral with a couple of men and it was ok (never in female mode) but I still prefer women. I will never pass and I don't need to, I dress for the excitement, relaxing calm feeling that I get, , period. If you're gay thats ok just be it and own it.

[ReineD]

I want to be a guy in eyeliner, toe rings and nice clothing and not have that FU#&Ing matter.

I agree, it would be nice if we lived in such a society, if people didn't assign any particular looks or styles to gender. Everyone would be free to dress/present as they want. But then I suspect that many CDers would be unhappy. There'd be no particular feminine look.

[sometimes_miss]

Amusing. Amusing that a male who wears women's clothes finds it so afraid that someone might think he's gay.
The problem arises should we want to date women; women don't usually want to date bi men or a gay man who they believe may be simply deceiving himself about his own sexuality. Once you're 'labeled' as gay, there will always be the suspician, and it's hard enough to find someone to date in this world, especially as we get older, that we simply want to avoid any further difficulties. Why make things harder on ourselves? The odds of finding a woman who's turned on by a guy who crossdresses is slim enough without creating more potential problems.

[SO1Adam12]

When in male mode I truly love all things female, no doubt, 100% love'em. When I dress never think about men only women, so I guess I'm a lesbian? Hell I don't know, I have no problem with being gay I've tried oral with a couple of men and it was ok (never in female mode) but I still prefer women. I will never pass and I don't need to, I dress for the excitement, relaxing calm feeling that I get, , period. If you're gay thats ok just be it and own it.

No, I would think you are a heterosexual male who gets some satisfaction out of wearing women's clothing.

When dressed as a female, you are still a male. Your're just a PB & J on wheat. :)

[sheilagirl]

"You feel, how you feel". One of my ex-wives said that, but really, nothing rings truer. It's how you react to it that matters. I've often felt a little lonely out here in Crossdressers.comville because personally, no matter how dolled up I get, how feminine and sexy I adorn myself, I still just want to make love with women. Call me crazy but I love pussy. For me, men hold no attraction and as much as I've tried to imagine myself with a man, it just ain't happening for me. I'm not sure what that means but, I feel, how I feel. The thing is, everyone on this forum has something in common, and if you're like me, and you know you are, we love a nice pair of lace, silk panties but that might just be where we part ways. Whatever...
Thanks for listening.

[CherylFlint]

Here's some info: a number of you have responded in private messages.
The verdict is that most of you agree with me, about liking guys while dressed.

[ArleneRaquel]

When enfemme I love men, in drab not at all.

[ReineD]

The verdict is that most of you agree with me, about liking guys while dressed.

But the question is, Cheryl, how many of these members have actually done it? It's one thing to fantasize and quite another to establish a sexual relationship with a man. Would they still like it after the experience?

It would be interesting to have a poll and have absolutely everyone who participates in this forum answer, not just the members who are bi.

A lot of people are here to play out their fantasies.

Sometimes_miss, you mention a difficulty finding women who like CDers because most believe them to be gay. There is another big reason that women don't as a rule go for CDers. I'm sure that (some? many?) women would believe, once it has been explained, that their new partner is not gay. But, it's difficult to get over the fear of others finding out. There still is a stigma against men who present as women. Even the CDers who go out on a regular basis keep this private from work and the people in their daily lives.

[Adriana Moretti]

But the question is, Cheryl, how many of these members have actually done it? It's one thing to fantasize and quite another to establish a sexual relationship with a man. Would they still like it after the experience?



I did it...LOL....I am Bi............and I still liked it after........but I'm a rare breed around these parts...

[abbyleigh001]

Cheryl... Get beyond the sexual labels... They are so restrictive in allowing the individual to freely express their true feelings at a given moment...

[weyburn]

Gay Straight whatever.........Peace and good health to all

[LilSissyStevie]

I just remembered that I actually am gay. I'm just waiting for it to manifest itself. When I was 17 and in a lot of legal trouble I had to be evaluated by a jailhouse psychiatrist for the judge to use in sentencing me. He said, among other things, that I was a "latent homosexual." I was strangely proud of that. The judge must not have thought it a big deal since she sent me home with probation. I'm still waiting for the gay to overtake me forty three years later.

[mechamoose]

But the question is, Cheryl, how many of these members have actually done it? It's one thing to fantasize and quite another to establish a sexual relationship with a man. Would they still like it after the experience?

Did you 'do' them to experience a fantasy, or because you *liked* them?

If your answer is 'fantasy', then you USED them. If your answer is 'liked', then you are putting up a HUGE gender/identity challenge, but you still put those hips up in the air, didn't you?

As I have said in many other threads, this thing of ours is about being *US*, not about an act. It isn't about 'faking' or 'passing'. It is figuring out how to be ourselves without being (light) embarrassed; (heavy) getting the cr@p beaten out of us.
.

[Beverley Sims]

I have a similar outlook to you but I am not attracted to men.
When with a group of girls I would look at men slightly differently and agree about their various attributes.

[Tami Monroe]

I did it...LOL....I am Bi............and I still liked it after........but I'm a rare breed around these parts...

I am in the same boat as Adriana....exactly the same boat.

[Barbara Dugan]

How do I feel about the Gay thing?.. After reading some of the threads on this forum ....its not easy being a Gay crossdreser :sad:

[BillieAnneJean]

When in guy I am 100% my SO's SO.
When enfemme I am 100% my SO's SO.
I am 100% always the same, the guy SO for my GG SO.
She is everything I will ever need and everything I could ever want and no matter what I am wearing I am a guy in an eternal relationship with my SO.
When enfemme I feel less masculine and more feminine, but I still realize that I am a guy and that is not going to change. Maybe I can escape the pressures of my life when enfemme, but at the end, I must go back to being a guy because that is where I know I belong. It is what works for me. And being the guy in our relationship works for me too.
I LIKE being a guy. But I like it MORE because I am a guy by choice. And I can choose to be a sorta girl for a while.
But I will never find any attraction in other guys. Even when enfemme. Women are like walking breathing artwork to me.
This is for me. It in NO way is an opinion on same sex couples. Everyone has a right to be happy in any kind of mutually beneficial relationship they choose. Even though our government and laws may not reflect that, YET.

[lingerieLiz]

Why is it that most here assume that if you enjoy cross dressing you are not curious about fem experiences. If one likes to dress and appear as female why would they not be attracted to being with a guy as any girl would fantasize about it. While you could argue that they would be bi it may be no more than an infatuation.
The infatuation of being female and wearing the garb is an elixir which can and will cause many to try and fulfill the role even when under normal condition it would be considered unconventional.

[DebbieL]

I’m not too sure how to write what I want to express, but I’ll do my best.
When I’m drab, I’m all guy in that I like women. No and’s, if’s, or but’s. JUST women.
But when I’m dressed, I like guys.

It's not unusual for someone who is transgender to experience changes in sexual preferennces. There are a couple of factors involved.

In my own case, Rex was pretty much asexual and Debbie was bisexual. However, as Rex I got the flirty looks with women, a polite nod in passing usually got me a smile. On the flip side, males represented a world of hostility to me. I could find Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan attractive, but they still occurred as potential threat, rejection, hostility.

To cope with the pain of being excluded from my girl friends, and to avoid hostility and violence of boys, I would find solitary persuits. Reading fiction books was hard too, because books for and about girls made me feel so lonely, and books about boys just made me even more angry and upset. As a result, I read a lot of non-fiction. I would read books about almost everything from chemistry, to weapons, to radio and electronics to cooking, crafts, and art. As I got older, I got interested in music and theater, as well as religion, not just the Christian teachings I had as a kid, but also alternative major and minor religions. I was particularly interested in the belief in reincarnation, such as the Hindus. I had even read a book on Black Magic that talked about committing suicide to transfer your soul into the body of a child. A little too dark for me. Though I did also see it alluded to in Children of the Corn, as well as a very few horror movies.

As a result, until about 8th grade, I was pretty much asexual. Kids used to call me "Sexy Rexy", because I was so UN-sexy. Most of my friends were much older, or adults, and we talked about radio, electronics, cooking, crafts, art, and music.

Eventually, my mother FORCED me to play with kids my own age. I had to play with kids my own age. Because girls were now encouraged to socialize with boys, I had less trouble interacting with girls, but the guys would give me all kinds of grief because I wasn't "making a play'. How could I tell ANYBODy that I liked the girls, but I wanted to BE a girl too.

In high school, because I was so femme, I got approached by gay boys quite frequently. At one point, at least once a week. I was always flattered by their attention, but would they be attracted to me if I was a girl? Probably not. To further confuse things, I was enjoying the "protection" of several gay jocks. Would they have been so willing to protect their social director if they knew I wanted to be a girl. And how would the girls feel?.

It wasn't until I was fully passing on a regular basis that I begin to experience men in a different way. They held the door for me, and smiled when they did it. They gave me complements on my outfits. They were NICE to me. They didn't see me as an inferior omega male, they saw me as a demure but still strong woman. Some men my own age, and slightly older even flirted with me. As a result, I began to see men less and less as a hostile threat.
I begin to notice that some men were kinda cute. I began to wonder what it might be like to kiss them. I'd thought about such things in high school, but REX wasn't terribly responsive to men or women. I dated the girls who were "Saving themselves", and they liked that I could give them pleasure without trying to push for the kind of sex they considered "real sex".

I even tried kissing a guy I did think was cute, but when he went for my crotch I reacted exactly the same as I did when women tried that. i experienced pain at their touch. I had to tell them NOT to touch that. I could please them, but not the other way around.

Even when a girlfriend who was very determined to take my virginity arranged for a scene where we had all the time we needed, I was unable to experience the pleasure as a man. I didn't orgasm, even though she did, and eventually I was too sore to continue. It wasn't until she tied me down and blindfolded me that I could begin to get lost in the fantasy of being her woman, and finally be able to really enjoy sex with her. Even then, I was so small, that our options were limited.

When I finally came out as Debbie, I met a few women who were VERY interested in Debbie, and were also a bit masculine. They had lower voices, wore bigger sizes, often wore jeans, but also knew how to be just feminine enough to be attractive to me.


So . . . I don’t consider myself “Gay”, not in the least. I’m not concerned with “gay rights” or any “rainbow” stuff.
Either I’m a guy, 100%, or a women, 100%.

Most of use have different sexual identity as well as preferences when we are en-femme. This is even more pronounced for those who are higher up the transgender scale.
Some transsexual MtFs actually hate their male parts so much that they struggle to enjoy any kind of sex as men.
On the other hand, in feminine mode, they experience their sexuality differently.
In fact, transsexuals seeking HRT are carefully evaluated to make sure that they will be able to deal with the side effects of T-Blockers, Estrogen, and Progesterone.
Once hormones are started, even the neurology changes. I won't go into details, but it's something quite exquisite, but could be frightening to someone who still liked
their "boy parts".


I know it’s all in my mind, but I don’t consider myself “gay” in the slightest.
How do you feel about the “gay” thing? It may not make any sense, but that’s just how I feel about it.
What about you? How do you feel about it?

I will admit that I have tried to have sex with both women and men as Rex, and as Debbie. As Rex I can barely experience pleasure.
As Debbie, I give pleasure more generously, and experience pleasure more intensely.
The few experiences I've had with men as Debbie were tainted - quirks of gay men (smells, hair, ...) didn't work for me.
At this point, I have a wonderful wife who is man enough AND woman enough for me. She loves being aggresive and seducing me, being in charge of it. She also loves it when I "show my appreciation" - though I sometimes get carried away (she's had 8 hernia operations as a result of too many too intense "belly whomper" orgasms.

I think an important factor is finding partners who can be attracted to either or both people. If your wife can't stand the sight of you "Pretty", but you have a guy who thinks you are the hottest thing he could ever imagine because you look like a woman but function like a man, it could be very easy to get lured into an affair with a "tranny chaser". (hate that term).

i'm lucky because I'm attracted to big beautiful women, and many of these women can enjoy being both masculine (comfortable) and feminine together. Lee often wears jeans, sweat shirt, and boots, and even sports a buzz cut, but she'll wear a lace camisole peaking out of the hoodie. She loves to drive, unless she wants to drink, in which case, she knows i'm a reliable designated driver. She loves to hold the door for me, and she loves to help me get seated (gracefully).. We love to go shopping together, and we support each other in picking out things that really work for each of us. It gets a bit interesting when she is the same size I am, because then she likes to steal my clothes. Last week I was packing for my business trip and couldn't find ANY pants, because she'd taken them all. So I had to wear skirts and dresses all week. You can guess that I was so broken hearted. ;-)

[Aubrey Skye]

I'm definitely 100% straight as well. However, when in femme mode I do tend to have some gay tendencies (or straight depending on how you look at it). But I would still have sex with a woman while dressed over a man any time. But my curiosities about being with a guy, at least as far as oral goes, does come out in femme mode.

[AmandaM]

I've commented on other threads of this sort that a straight sexual definition of "bi" is not sufficient to explain my feelings. I have said that a better term is half-female sexuality. Let me try to define that more fully. When I dress, I dress to the nines when possible. I want to feel the caress of the clothes against my body, feel my hips, feel my "new" breasts. As I dress I slowly "become" female. It's almost as if a flower opened. The wisp of the hair, the smell of makeup, the mesmerizing trance of the transformation. I become engulfed in femininity, and it's accompanying sensuousness 'of a female kind', I have become the girl on the cover of Cosmo. I am her, I am beautiful, I am sexy, I have her face and body. At that time, I "feel" fully female. Whether I go out, go shopping, sit at home, or feel frisky, I do it as a woman, not as a man in a dress, for I am no longer he. At that time, I desire sex with women, and sometimes with a man with me of course only a woman. In my mind, I am a woman, so why wouldn't I "perform" as one? This is how I would define bi when dressed.