Late transitioners

[Marleena]

Jorja raised a great question in another thread. There are many late transitioners here which begs the question, why? Why did it take you so long?

Here Is Jorja's original question: " I really cannot understand how many of you could wait so long. For me, it was a driving need, a must, I simply had to transition as soon as possible or die. How did you manage to put off the intense feelings for so long? I understand family obligations, career obligations etc... Was it that you just did not realize it at that time? "

I won't bore you with my story again other than to say I was going it alone thinking I was the only person dealing with it. It was pre-internet. I did not know where to get help and was afraid. I only knew I had gender issues. So it became "mind over matter" so to speak and suffering in silence.

I think for many of us we "hit the wall" later in life, possibly after a life changing event or the feeling we are running out of time.

I'm quite sure that had there been support groups and the information that's available today I would have transitioned in my twenties. I live in a city of about 200,000 and only in the last year has trans health care/help become available here.

[VanTG]

For one thing, and I am just taking a guess here, but I think the internet had a huge impact on it. I think it made things so much more accessible than ever before and allowed people to connect on other levels.

Just my guess and something I would like to study some more.

[Dianne S]

There are many reasons it took me so long. First, I thought I was "just" a crossdresser. I thought getting married would cure me, but of course it didn't.

Then we had three kids, which I thought would cure me. In a sense, it was a temporary cure: We were so busy raising our family that I pushed all transgender issues aside.

Then in 2013, I did have a life-changing event; my father passed away. My father had always been slightly eccentric and marched to his own beat. He always told us kids to be true to ourselves and not let others influence who we are. I guess when he died, I simultaneously realized I had a limited time on this earth, and that I really should follow my father's advice. The barriers of repression and denial fell away.

It is not a steady path. I started spironolactone and then stopped because I had severe doubts. I thought about things for 8 weeks and now I'm back on spiro. I'm slowly coming to peace with the fact that I need to transition.

[samantha rogers]

Marleena, your tale is exactly like my own. I grew up in an extremely macho and homophobic environment when there were zero examples, role models, or support groups. The denial and self repression was extreme and coupled with a strong ability to role play (Im an actor by profession) led to development of a male mask I still struggle with. The "running out of time" business resonates strongly with me.

[PretzelGirl]

I originally thought I was a late bloomer from the perspective of even having feelings. But once I started looking back and understanding that what I was seeing more clearly now, was a fog when I was younger and I just stuffed it because I didn't understand it. I benefited while I was young by it not being at the level that caused me stress. But once I started exploring and learning, the feelings took hold. It is an evolutionary thing in some "late bloomers" to me. Others try to hang on and it overcomes them. Either is the same result.

[becky77]

What age defines a late transitioner?
For me I would say the internet made a big difference, before that I felt like a freak all on my own. Also it didn't seem possible and I didn't want to live such a hard life. I tried everything to bury it, managed a spell of ten years being the proper guy and husband. Now that feels like such a waste of time, a time that I was living in total denial and keeping my mind in the present at all times.
Then it just became too unbearable being that person, I had zero self esteem, no confidence at all in the end I was desperate for therapy. The therapy helped strip away the denials and face the truth. After that a new fear took place, the fear of regret and not transitioning.
I don't want to be that person that is riven with bitterness, because they didn't have the courage to do what is necessary. Also once you open yourself up to transition, it feels like a natural process. You can't explain it as everything in your life is crazy, but you just know you are on the right path finally.
Should I have done it sooner? Probably, but then the time is right when the time is right.

[PaulaQ]

They murdered the one openly gay kid in my high school. That sends a message of conformity like no other.

It was illegal for part of my life here in Texas to even crossdress.

Alcohol and drugs are marvelous for surpressing these feelings, although rather quickly they become a problem in and of themselves.

After that, by that point I'd really screwed up and had a kid I had to take care of. I wasn't going to get work as trans in Texas.

So I immersed myself in being a workaholic. Software design for me was a wonderful way to distract myself from my feelings. Especially when I did it 12-14 hours a day.

And I really did love my second wife. I knew she'd never accept this, but losing her was unthinkable.

[savannaxdrsser]

I understand all the different feelings expressed. For me, wearing my sisters and mothers things when I was young was about getting aroused. I did feel like a girl somewhat, but could never share that, always thought I was just weird. Now I think that maybe inside I had those gender issues and dressing was a way to express it at the time. In other words, I dressed because I felt like a girl, not I felt like a girl when I dressed. Of course those feelings came and went, but were always there, just got pushed back with other life issues. The internet certainly made a big difference, suddenly there were others just like myself, with very similar stories and it felt just natural. I am still very much in the closet, but at least there are outlets, like here, to express and explore all these feelings.

[Thea Pauline]

Most of what has been said here applies to me as well. I was never satisfied with myself but I didn't know why; cross dressing off and on, preferring the company of girls, all since age three should have been an indicator, but as I grew up, openly transgender didn't exist in society.

I did the same things as many, military, marriage, divorce. Tried to conform and figured this was my lot in life. Then the million to one survival of a medical event caused by stress; therapy, realization, self acceptance, transition. And on life goes.

[Nigella]

I'm a late transitioner, but then again, I'm not.

My transition started when I was young, when I first looked in a mirror and thought, you're a girl. However, the gender dysphoria did not kick in till my late 40s. I was able to lead the life of a GM, doing all the things that were "normal" for a male. Dated girls, joined the military, got married, had kids, none of it felt wrong. I don't know why the GD kicked in when it did, but all it did was bring back the thoughts and feelings of first looking in the mirror.

I don't regret my past, any of it, it has made me the person I am today, if I had transitioned early, I would not be the same.

[Angela Campbell]

For me it was a little different from that Nigella. I also knew from early childhood but I was tought quite young to never let anyone know. I never liked playing with the boys and never fit in. I tried very hard to seem like a normal boy but everyone could tell i was different. I did what I had to do,
over the years it was always on my mind, along with the fear that someone would find out. In a small town in south Georgia the results of someone finding out would have resulted in similar circumstances as Paula described in Texas. Not good.

So I blundered along trying to survive until the pain was more than the fear. At that point i began to transition whether i wanted to or not.

Wish I had so much earlier but looking back it would have been impossible.

[GabbiSophia]

I really relate to you Nigella. I have no idea why mine has come on but I do not hate my past. I am not late per say as i was 35 but i have always felt like I haven't fit in. I came to grips with it and my gd took over. As i grew up i always wondered what was wrong with me. It was a story of a ts that made me realize that I wasn't alone in the world and it wasn't a jerry springer type. Once I knew that then it really come on hard ever since.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I was 48 ..I transitioned early hehe

[Marleena]

Hmmm.. it a appears somebody did not define what a late transitioner is. Cute..:)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

to be less silly if you've invested a lot of time and energy in a male life, your transition will be impacted by certain issues ...unwinding the investments can be brutal and some frankly just can't do it..
isn't that all that really matters?

the specific age seems irrelevant to me...

and rather than use the idea as a club to disbelieve and bash us, how about realizing its pretty much proof that its real... the upheaval of later transition can't really be understated...its hard enough to do it young..
but it gets incredibly difficult ...and yet we do it...and we universally say it was worth it... (Assuming being ts as a given...Charles kane et al doesn't count)

[Marleena]

No bashing was intended when I posted this Kaitlyn, nor should there be.

We'll be seeing less late transitioners due to the fact there is help readily available. The youngsters are being believed and getting help at an early age.

[Jenessa]

I think for many of us we "hit the wall" later in life, possibly after a life changing event or the feeling we are running out of time.


This sums it up for me, there was an event in my life and it made me realize I had to stop living for everyone else and do what was right for me before I got to old.

[GabbiSophia]

No bashing was intended when I posted this Kaitlyn, nor should there be.

We'll be seeing less late transitioners due to the fact there is help readily available. The youngsters are being believed and getting help at an early age.

I am not sure about this. I never thought I was ts or tg or anything till my mid 30. Yes I knew I was different but that wasn't a path I had looked for. If as Nigella also indicated it just hits you. I know it smacked me. I bee I've you are correct and that it will help some.

[Marleena]

Fair enough Gabbi, I'm sure not judging anybody here. I'm struggling with all of this myself.

[LeaP]

Here's the deal: There was an implication – or at least a question – in Jorja's original comment that implies that intensity wasn't sufficient to drive transition at an earlier age in the (now) late transitioning population. Her comment carried special weight in this regard, I think, because she transitioned during a period in which it was extraordinarily difficult TO transition. I.e. she is a contemporary of the current crop of late transitioners (especially the really old ones ... :devil:). And so if she transitioned, had to transition, then… um, how can you possibly say, late transitioners, that your situation is equivalent?

People argue different constraints. A murder is a pretty strong one! But you know, people transition in the face of that anyway. You think people didn't get murdered back in the day? They argue acceptance. But things were even worse in that regard back in the day. They argue the difficulty of unwinding ever-accumulating investments. That carries a lot of weight as regards the difficulty of transitioning now, but it doesn't address why someone didn't transition early at all. Some are talking about what they knew as opposed to what they did. All that does is lead to weight to Jorja's question, frankly. Illegalities. Really? Do you know that in some jurisdictions doctors could be prosecuted for mayhem for performing SRS in years past. And if one doesn't like the situation where they are, it is always possible to move. (Possible, not necessarily practical. I hope no one is going to hang their hat on the necessity of practicality given the subject matter.).

My cut at it is a little different. And that is that intensity can manifest in different forms, the drive toward transition being just one.

The second part of my response is on the concept of late transition itself. I think anything short of growing up in your true gender is a late transition! If you accept, as I do, that it is possible for transsexuals of the same level of intensity to transition at different points in their lives, then the differences are in the details, not in kind.

[Rianna Humble]

My story is a matter of global public record. I knew I was meant to be a girl from a very early age, got mixed up with a group that persuaded me that Gender was a matter of choice, Was unable to marry the woman I loved when I was in my twenties as I knew I could not play the role of a husband but tried everything to sublimate the knowledge that I was living a lie. Told myself that I could never transition and later told myself that in any case I would be a lonely, ugly, woman and that no-one wants to know someone like that. Got to a certain point in my life where my depression was such that I had to choose to act or kill myself. Began transition at the ripe young age of 54.

I have occasionally wished that I had had the strength and the financial resources to transition when I was younger, but such regrets serve no useful purpose.

[Marleena]

Here's the deal: There was an implication – or at least a question – in Jorja's original comment that implies that intensity wasn't sufficient to drive transition at an earlier age in the (now) late transitioning population. Her comment carried special weight in this regard, I think, because she transitioned during a period in which it was extraordinarily difficult TO transition. I.e. she is a contemporary of the current crop of late transitioners (especially the really old ones ... :devil:). And so if she transitioned, had to transition, then… um, how can you possibly say, late transitioners, that your situation is equivalent?


Interesting... I saw/see her question as harmless since she is a member of our own community. I see it as her just wondering out loud how we managed to hold off for so long. In fact I was happy that she managed to transition at an early age.

[PaulaQ]

Although it will be hard for some here to believe, I'm quite good at ignoring even rather intense personal pain, both physical and emotional. It stems from my early childhood in the hospital. I spent 5 if my first seven birthdays in a children's orthopedic hospital, and expressing fear, sadness, and pain were VERY strongly discouraged back then.

So at one point, they tested me to see if I felt pain. I did. I just didn't express it.

I shoved this stuff down until I simply couldn't live any longer. It was stupid - I waited too long and attempted my own life.

I could've died.

Look, I thought about transition when I was younger. Frankly, at the time it seemed impossible, like I'd need to be a millionaire. I had NO idea where to find out even how to begin in Texas in the 80's. It just seemed hopeless - an impossible dream. The therapist I see now wasn't even in practice yet - she worked in a local lesbian bar.

I dunno, I guess I was weak. I couldn't even imagine what else to do but shove these feelings down with as much alcohol as I could swallow. Others managed to do it. I didn't. Once I had a kid, I felt obligated to take care of him.

Anyway, it's water under the bridge. There's no changing the past.

[BOBBI G.]

By all standards, I am a late transitioner. I'm 71 now and was 70 when I took my first medication. I always felt different and knew I didn't fit in, but I just thought they weren't happy around me. Never called names or made more fun of than most. Just your normal screwed up kid. All I knew is I wasn't happy. Tried to be the male and had a child in 1972, and hid myself until in the late 90's. Found the internet and and a magical word "transgender". I now knew who I was but kept it under covers until my wife and I divorced in 2010. Then I came out as a crossdresser and in February of 2013 I started living full time as a woman. Started therapy in Sept and in October started HRT. And here I am today, living the life I always should have. This is just a synopsis, but pretty concise.

Bobbi

["BRANDY"]

Bobbi, I am so proud of you, I am at 57 years old........and people like you inspire , me , thankyou from the heart

lol Brandy

[Jorja]

First off Lea my dear, there was no hidden agenda, no malice, no contempt, no anything in my question. I know how I felt. I know how the drive to transition consumed me every breathing moment. I could not do anything or go anywhere without this damn need surfacing every time I even moved. I tried with all of my might to find distractions. I tried to bury it. I tried to over compensate and do manly things. I tried marriage and kids but that didn’t work out!

All I wanted to try to figure out by my question is, what is/was the difference between me and so many of you? Why did I need to transition at 22 and so many of you are well into your 40s 50s and 60s even your 70s yet most of you report having the need in your 20s or earlier too.

[LeaP]

I assumed no malice and no hidden intent. No reason whatsoever to do so with you, Jorga. In fact, it is a terrific question and nicely asked.

[Lisa O]

Interesting question. Thinking about it, I think that until I was about 38, I just didn't know that you could. Apart from drag performers in Sydney (some of whom it turns out are/were transsexual - so long ago many have died!!!), there weren't any people out in the open. I am talking about country New Zealand in the 60s and 70s.

I was raised to conform in my family. 4 older siblings who almost always tried to control me. Then boys boarding schools for 6 years. Talk about a repressed upbringing! One book I had said that transsexuals were mentally ill so I wasn't going to own up to that! All this was well before the internet in a rural part of New Zealand - not exactly at the forefront of gender expression.

Marriage, kids etc might have been used as excuses for not doing something but really they just impacted timing, not acknowledgement. Once I was aware of what needed to be done, pragmatism took over but not without extracting a price - I suffered for a few years. In this, I waited way too long.

[Dianne S]

Bobbi, thank you for your inspiring post. At 47, I was afraid I had missed my chance, but I see you're never too old to be true to yourself.

[Heather25]

Maybe it is a bunch of BS, but I believe part of my problem with regards to recognizing and beginning to accept this in myself is that my nature is to be a but of a conformist. You know, I'm a good person and a good person follows steps a-m and as a result is successful and has a good life. I knew I had this in me but I was a good person and therefore I wasn't going to accept this in myself. You can blame it on societal influence and associated shame. You can blame it on fear, I wanted a happy life and being a successful male was the path to a happy life as far as society is concerned.

I believe some people are more individualistic and some are more conformists. The individualistic individual I believe has an easier time disregarding societal pressures while for the conformist those pressures carry far more weight over their choices.

At least, that's sort of how I view it right now...

[Kathryn Martin]

As I said in the last go around on this question, the problem is that this is something where individual biography plays a significant role. Intensity of feelings about yourself and acting by way of transition to overcome the disconnect between your brain and your body are not necessarily a seamless cause and effect. Biographical events and issues as well as medical biography will invariably impact the progression from those feelings to transition completion. For some of us it is more a matter of surviving to transition and be whole.

I have always done everything ass backwards. I was born that way. For me there was never a question of who I was really and what I suffered was mostly the dissociation between my brain and my body, between who I was and my bodies incapacity to express who I was. The times I have been called a girl, effeminate, not a real man, a woman before I transition far outweighed the times I was called a man.

[JohnH]

Let's make it succinct - maybe there is the mid-life crisis when you really get sick and tired of doing things the same old way and it's time for a change!

I find finally my body matches my mind, and I really want to live my life to the fullest instead of wishing I was dead.

Johanna Anna

[Angela Campbell]

I don't think it has anything to do with any"mid life crisis".

[VanTG]

Totally and 100% agreed with this


I assumed no malice and no hidden intent. No reason whatsoever to do so with you, Jorga. In fact, it is a terrific question and nicely asked.

[LeaP]

Let's make it succinct - maybe there is the mid-life crisis when you really get sick and tired of doing things the same old way and it's time for a change!


The implications of mid-life crises are desperately trying to recapture youth, a breakaway from responsibility, abandoning restraint and judgement, and tilting at windmills.

A TS discovery crisis is about as far from a mid-life crisis that I can imagine.

[KellyJameson]

It seems like most who transition late in life were or are married. I tried to use relationships as a proxy to replace my identity. It is a type of second hand living through another. Similar to crossdressing for relief.

For me it did not work early on but I could see how for some this may bring relief until later in life when that sense of living falsely finally becomes to much to ignore.

My sexuality was never defined but for those who clearly wanted to be sexual with women and have a family this combined with living through their wives for gender identity could work, albeit temporarily.

Once the kids are grown and the sex wanes the gender dysphoria would raise its ugly head again.

[PaulaQ]

@Kelly - my sex life was fine. I don't think that had anything to do with it.

I can remember two thoughts that really started to crack through my denial.

1. I lost a huge amount of money in the crash of '08-'09. I felt my life had failed.

2. When my kids were old enough to be on their own, after I'd helped them through school, I had the thought that I could die at that moment, and my family would continue on ok.

I felt useless, purposeless, and finished. There seemed to be no point to my life.

Shortly after that, my gender issues kicked back into gear.

[mbmeen12]

I understand all the different feelings expressed. For me, wearing my sisters and mothers things when I was young was about getting aroused
Then with my wife "hey hun how about wearing this during play time?" One thing led to another and Kara emerged. I have a great councilor(transgender advocate in our community) and when I spilled the beans of my life events, she confirmed my GID and I qualify for the letter etc. I have been a member of this site 2012 and learn everyday I am not alone at 51+.

[Jaclyn]

Here is my theory as to why I secretly dressed when I was young, then stopped, and now dress all the time. Testosterone levels. I think it played a big part in being able to suppress my desire to be a women. I couldn't control it before puberty and I can't now that I'm 50 and believe me I try. As much as I love dressing up and there is a side of me that's tries to make me stop. Thankfully he doesn't stand a chance against her. :)

Jackie

[sarahcsc]

Jorja raised a great question in another thread. There are many late transitioners here which begs the question, why? Why did it take you so long?


Why not? hehe. :p

[Emma Beth]

To start I would love to thank Marleena for starting this thread and making me think deeper about some things that I had thought about before.

I would also love to thank Jorja for the same thing by stating her thoughts in another thread.

Now, I could go into detail and talk about my story and parallel bits and pieces of everyone else's stories. But I'm not going to do that simply because I had a thought that I think might strike a cord of understanding.

First of all; I can empirically say that in my case, ignorance of what was really going on inside myself allowed me to suppress and follow the expectations of others around me with regards to how I lived my life.

The Internet did play a key role in helping me understand what I was feeling and come to terms and realize that I need to seek my true path.

I can look back at my life as I am now and see the sign posts that point to where I am going and I can't help but wonder something.

Jorja, I wonder and pose this thought; I think that people sometimes forget that how they see the past from where they are now is quite different from how they experience the present as it happened in the past.

I think that when one looks back they can't help but to look at their past through the looking glass of the present and forget that they sometimes need to look at the past through the frame of the past with the help of the looking glass of the present.

I hope this make some kind of sense for everyone else, because it makes perfect sense to me right now, LOL.


Liz

[Rogina B]

It seems like most who transition late in life were or are married. I tried to use relationships as a proxy to replace my identity. It is a type of second hand living through another. Similar to crossdressing for relief.

For me it did not work early on but I could see how for some this may bring relief until later in life when that sense of living falsely finally becomes to much to ignore.

My sexuality was never defined but for those who clearly wanted to be sexual with women and have a family this combined with living through their wives for gender identity could work, albeit temporarily.
I think this is all very true and at the same time makes it appear to those around you that you are a "normal"male,satisfied in your life. In fact,most of us were just the opposite.I had constant internal turmoil combined with enormous pressure to remain on top in my business[commercial fishing]...I suppressed my internal struggles with an outwardly appearing life of a "deadliest catch" sort of guy...Until a life changing event caused me to blow a gasket..

[Donna Joanne]

My story is a matter of global public record. I knew I was meant to be a girl from a very early age, got mixed up with a group that persuaded me that Gender was a matter of choice, Was unable to marry the woman I loved when I was in my twenties as I knew I could not play the role of a husband but tried everything to sublimate the knowledge that I was living a lie. Told myself that I could never transition and later told myself that in any case I would be a lonely, ugly, woman and that no-one wants to know someone like that. Got to a certain point in my life where my depression was such that I had to choose to act or kill myself. Began transition at the ripe young age of 54.

I have occasionally wished that I had had the strength and the financial resources to transition when I was younger, but such regrets serve no useful purpose.

You have for the most part described my journey "spot on" as well Rianna! And if you count when I first began to seek knowledge and professional intervention about my Gender Dysphoria, my transition actually began 38 years ago, but only began HRT this year at 54 as well.

So does that make me a late transitioner or a long term transitioner? I'll let y'all be the judge of that.

I also agree with the futility of the "woulda-coulda-shoulda" discussions. While we should never forget where we have been, let us never lose focus on where we are going! Godspeed and good wishes to all my fellow sisters and brothers on this journey!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I always say "events conspire" for us..

For me it was a combination of my wife dumping me and my boss of 20 years retiring and having to compete for my job... the crazy thing is that I was clearly winning and was going to get a promotion that would have made me responsible for a huge part of our company's financial business...all that did was make me feel trapped in my life worse than ever!!!!! that's when my roller coaster started...

[Pink Person]

Physicists have persuaded me that I have already transitioned in a parallel universe and am FAB in another one, so I don't need to do anything here. It’s a relief since I am somewhat of a TG naturalist and prefer letting nature have her way with me without much interference.

I will observe that transitioning isn’t a contest. No one gets a prize for crossing the finish line first.

[Marleena]

Why not? hehe. :p

Sarah you're being a bad girl! lol. :spank:

[Kimberly Kael]

The implications of mid-life crises are desperately trying to recapture youth, a breakaway from responsibility, abandoning restraint and judgement, and tilting at windmills.

A TS discovery crisis is about as far from a mid-life crisis that I can imagine.

Really? Everything you've described is either commonly expressed or essential to transition. How often have you heard transsexuals lament not transitioning earlier? Or missing having the experience of growing up perceived as a girl? How much of the struggle of transition has to do with reconciling responsibilities, financial and emotional? Isn't the conventional wisdom that transition is worth avoiding of anyone who can, suggesting that restraint and judgement would tell us not to? And what would you consider "tilting at windmills" if not trying to convince an entire society that their long held definition of sex and gender is simply wrong? Even other aspects of a mid-life crisis, like splurging on something expensive you've always wanted seem to apply.

In practice, I suspect the mid-life crisis really is a matter of looking back on one's life, finding it wanting, and deciding not to live with regrets. Some people deal with it more positively and gracefully than others, but it does bear a lot of similar hallmarks even though the typical mid-life crisis isn't about anything nearly as fundamental.

There seems to have been a progression of common times in life to transition: at one point the most common story was at retirement when financial stability has been achieved and the burden of responsibility diminishes somewhat, then there seemed to be a surge around 40 when most of our careers have peaked and we're taking stock of our lives, and now there are getting to be more and more around 20 when they're establishing their independence. Hopefully that trend continues down to puberty and earlier, which we're certainly seeing with some of the more enlightened parents of trans kids. Not everyone fits one of these stories, of course, but I've heard each of them over and over.

[LeaP]

Yes, really. Totally.

Doing something later in life that you should've done when you were younger is not recapturing your youth. Frustrated middle-age men try to go back in time, acting as if they were younger than they are. It is not the same thing.

One of the major differences in my life at this point is how much reality and responsibility play out. Responsibility is something I have avoided throughout my life. There is no way, in no sense that I am avoiding responsibility with transition! Quite the opposite!

It is similar with judgment and restraint. I am exercising judgment – carefully and realistically assessing my needs, feelings, options, and circumstances, making informed decisions based in reality. My life prior to this point was reactive, ceding decisions to others. (And then complaining, I might add…)

Tilting at windmills, of course, is a metaphor for doing that for which you are not suited. To be unrealistic. Surely if there is one thing that should guide a transition, it is that you are doing something for which you are eminently well-suited.

[Michelle789]

First, I'm not sure if I quality as a late transitioner. I probably qualify as neither late nor early transitioner, but rather a mid-transitioner, as I am 34 and beginning transition.

I feel like no matter how long we wait or not, we could have always transitioned younger. Someone who is 74 wishes they transitioned at 54. Someone who is 54 wishes they transitioned at 34. Someone who is 34 wishes they transitioned at 24. Someone who is 24 wishes they transitioned at 14.

No matter what age we transitioned, there were reasons we didn't transitions sooner.

I feel like because of the internet and increasing trans acceptance and trans legal protections, we're experiencing the "transition boom" right now, and people of all ages are identify as trans are transitioning in the recent years.

Why I didn't transition when I was 14?

When I was in high school, I never heard the word transgender, knew nothing about trans people, and no idea that transition was even an option back then. I had these feelings that I was really a girl on the inside, I hated my body hair, I hated my facial hair, and when I saw an attractive woman rather than wanting to sleep with her, I wished I could be her. I also felt like my body was the most repulsive thing in the world and was being poisoned, but not sure by what. I also felt like if I say anything, that everyone will think I'm crazy and no one will take me seriously. So I blindly accepted myself as a man, since my body said I was male and so did society. On top of that, my parents sent me to a born again Christian high school, in spite of the fact that they seriously oppose religion of all sorts, and my father is an agnostic.

Even more ironic is that I now am a regular churchgoer, although the church I belong to is a very liberal church accepting of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgender people, and they preach love not doctrine. No one is going to hell. It's called Metropolitan Community Church.

Oh, and I felt like I had no choice but to please my family and make them happy. Hey, I wanted to be the good kid. My father scared me about ever getting into any kind of trouble, and I certainly felt that even telling my parents about my gender issues would have lead to MAJOR trouble.

My parents raised us to believe that if we do anything wrong, and that includes being gay or trans, that we will end up in the gutter. It wasn't an issue of the soul, salvation, karma, or bringing positive energy to the table. They're concern was ending up on the streets, and that doing just about anything that goes against them would inevitably lead to that. Even if they don't do the job, which they probably won't, someone else will finish the job of putting us on the streets for us. My parents were terrified of that, and so was I, so I learned to repress everything about myself. Gender related, and everything that was not gender related as well, out of fear of something terrible happening as a consequence.


Why I didn't transition when I was 24?

By the time I was 24, in fact at age of 22, I first learned about transition. I really knew that I wanted to transitioned and wished I could have the opportunity to do so back then. However, I felt like transition wasn't in the cards. I was in grad school. I had very little work experience. I was financially dependent on my parents. My parents, who oppose religion, actually oppose everything. My father became convinced that I was a gay man in the closet, and told me and my brother that if I actually am gay that he would be crushed, and would totally disown me.

There were no trans anti-discrimination laws back then, not even in California. I was stuck living in a bad neighborhood in south central L.A. and even venturing outside of the house as a woman (or a dude in a dress if I get clocked) could mean instant physical assault or death in that neighborhood. My parents were friends with the landlord, so if I ventured outside of the house as a woman I would risk getting caught by my landlord and having him tell my parents.

Transition is incredibly expensive, and I didn't have the financial resources to do so. I thought that transition meant that I had to go all the way, and that I could not even dare present as a woman until I was on hormones for at least a year and went through a year of electrolysis. I was myself very ignorant in spite of the information that was available back then, and the early 2000's was the very beginning of information being available on the internet. There was just no way I could ever dish out $100,000 to complete transition.

I was in the middle of my heavy drinking days, and I was completely numbed out to my gender issues. I just liked to cross-dress in private sometimes. It was "just a kink" to me back then.

Today is a very different world. People are more accepting of trans people, especially in California. We have anti-discrimination laws in many states including California. I am 7 years sober and have reached a point where I wanted to end my life in 2012-2013 and be reincarnated as a woman in my next life, and for all lifetimes thereafter. I learned that there is no right or wrong way to transition. I learned that I could present as a woman in public before even starting on hormones. I have friends who went full-time before starting hormones. I actually worked my way up to living 165 before I started hormones. Laser hair removal is an option for me. I do not have to get SRS, and if I decide that I need SRS, there is a possibility that insurance might cover it for me in California.

So I guess the circumstances, combined with me accepting my own reality, are what finally drove me to transition at the age of 34, in an age group that according to Blanchard no one really transitions at this age.

My parents, again

They have come a long way on gay rights, and I'm not convinced they would disown me when I come out to them in November, but I could see them trying to talk me out of transition, and be worried about my safety as a woman, financial future as trans, and the physical side effects of estrogen, hair removal, and surgeries. But I really won't know how they're going to react until I come out to them.

[KaceyR]

I'll throw my own situation here..even though I'm only just starting this path for me (getting my letter Monday).

As it turns out.. I've had pretty much my entire life from youth on affected by GD.
I didn't really realize that's what it was.. I just had issues that to a gender psych might have recognized but likely not for the time. The last couple of decades of...I wanna say "gender tech"... have brought a lot of great strides in this recognition and more therapists that can tell it. If my young self had access to today's therapists..possibly things would've been started earlier. But no psych work was ever done-we were never a strong family financially and outright poor at times. So...I just lived with my GD-sourced issues.
Left home, and while over the decades things increased, because one of my own effects is a heavy social anxiety, and depression, I just sat around home just "existing". That's about it. While I'm now 49, this condition had led me to seclude myself, not date, and not really be social..so in my case, there's been no wife or GF in my life to affect any transition decisions. But to be honest... I can honestly say the transgender condition was totally off my radar altogether. Fully unknown of by me. And I just stayed complacent with my life suffering it out as if that's the only way I'll be, no fix and such. Until it really woke up last year..and finding what was missing which was the biggie which triggered my investigation, and then to finally go see a therapist. And now things will be starting soon.

So my case it was really not realizing my GD or the severity of it being realized to be big enough in order to finally get me into that therapists office..(or possibly the depression side keeping me from really taking any sort of action). Otherwise I possibly would have started things sooner. (Sure wish I'd figure this before my male pattern baldness kicked in :) ) Others may "tough it out" due to involvement with family,wife,etc.. But mine was pure inactivity to investigate my issues in my life. Yeah there's regrets now for so much wasted time. But that's water under the bridge. At least I'm starting things now before I'm trying to jump off that bridge into the water.

On the plus side..this is probably a more of a right time to do it due to support within my workplace, and the potential to have a lot of this stuff insurance helped. A few years back, maybe it wouldn't have been as good.

Anyways, that's -my- excuses for a late transition.

[Diana L]

I fought gd for almost 64 years I decided to try one last thing and got on hrt. Within a few days I felt like a new person. I don't think transition is in my future though. I just waited too long.

[Barbara Ella]

I had no choice but to be a transition late. I have told my story before, but nothing happened until I turned 65, three years ago, and first started dressing. Out of the blue I have these feelings which manifest as a recognition of GD. Now I am on HRT for 22 months. Wife accepts as fact that I was meant to have been born a woman, but something happened. I go in for my 23 hour electrolysis session on tuesday. How far will i be able to go? At 68 now there are no guarantees, but I am in it til the end.

All I know is that at SCC last week, Dr. Leis stated that his oldest GRS patient was 77. So never give up hope.

Barbara

[SassySal]

Sarah you're being a bad girl! lol. :spank:

Indeed the seriousness of this condition should not be made light of. For those that are young and secure in their sexual identity, (not gender identity which is totally fungible and varies according to mood or day of the week)...transition is a 'no-brainer'. It is just a matter of getting it one and over with.

For those older folks, for whom perhaps the intensity of the need was not so acute, and who seem to constitute the majority population on these "support" forums, the question is huge and fraught with all manner of dire consequence.

A clear example is seen here:
I'm unable to think clearly and am worried for our future.

I think that perspicacious observation about the internet "rabbit hole", with its morass of conflicting inaccuracies and petty political intrigues merits greater scrutiny.

[Rianna Humble]

For those that are young and secure in their sexual identity, (not gender identity which is totally fungible and varies according to mood or day of the week)...transition is a 'no-brainer'.

Observations like this prove that you do not have a clue what you are talking about. Gender identity is not a commodity that can be exchanged for another and Gender Identites are not mutually exchangeable, neither does a person's identity vary according to mood, day of the week or any other such rubbish.



morass of conflicting inaccuracies and petty political intrigues

But those of us who are TS try to counter these things when you post them.

[Kathryn Martin]

Indeed the seriousness of this condition should not be made light of. For those that are young and secure in their sexual identity, (not gender identity which is totally fungible and varies according to mood or day of the week)...transition is a 'no-brainer'. It is just a matter of getting it one and over with.

For those older folks, for whom perhaps the intensity of the need was not so acute, and who seem to constitute the majority population on these "support" forums, the question is huge and fraught with all manner of dire consequence.

I find it most interesting that identity seems to be so involved with late transitioners generally. While I am clearly a late transitioner this has never been an issue. I often find myself wondering about this and about the whole gender construct. In so many ways much of what causes the fear fraught with all manner of dire consequences appears to be about gender expectations of family, friends and the rest of the world and last but not least the person itself. Which leads me to believe that it is about doubts and expectations about acceptance. I consider this the hallmark of gender variance.

The internet is just a bunch of bs all around. While it might allow for some information, the majority of that information is tainted by viewpoint rather than fact.

[LeaP]

The internet is just a bunch of bs all around. While it might allow for some information, the majority of that information is tainted by viewpoint rather than fact.

Yes. And the more factual the argument, the worse the outrage in response. People are wedded to their viewpoints.

[Eryn]

It may be, for some of us, that transitioning is not as much of an imperative as for others. For some people transition is the only option other than ceasing to exist. Others may handle their GD differently and find that they can walk the middle path. Later in life the things that prompted them to walk the middle path might change, leading to a reevaluation of priorities and perhaps a decision to transition.

[Rachel Smith]

All I wanted to try to figure out by my question is, what is/was the difference between me and so many of you? Why did I need to transition at 22 and so many of you are well into your 40s 50s and 60s even your 70s yet most of you report having the need in your 20s or earlier too.

Jorja,
I think we had the desire and the knowledge but not the need or the courage. You on the other hand had all of those and that is what it takes. I wouldn't even watch anything on television with other people around because I knew what it meant for me. I would however watch all that I could when alone.

[Dianne S]

I think we had the desire and the knowledge but not the need or the courage.

I'm not sure about this. At 22, I honestly had no idea I might be transsexual. I really thought I was a crossdresser and that was it.

This is causing me quite a bit of anxiety because most of my transsexual friends say "Yes, I've known my whole life" and "I had absolutely no doubts transition was the right thing to do." Well, I haven't known all my life and I still have lingering doubts, or possibly just fears.

It could be that I unconsciously suppressed the knowledge. This is something I'm planning on working out with my therapist: How do I know I'm really honestly truly TS? I'm 99% sure, but I'd like to be 100% sure.

There were a few isolated incidents in my younger days when I though I might be TS, but it wasn't anything like the overwhelming, constant dysphoria of the last few years.

[Nigella]

Mod note

Please refrain from directing any replies to SassySal, they are no longer able to respond to any posts on the forum, thank you :)

[Ann Thomas]

This original question of this thread is one I have been pondering for quite some time. The answer I had arrived at (prior to reading this thread, and the thread hasn't changed my opinion, but has given me some insight) is that it's based on the intensity of how the person feels, and that changes throughout life. But it also is impacted by knowledge, and whether that was pre- or post- internet is not my focus, as that fact has evidently had a huge impact on people, as it has for myself, but it's not the sole source of knowledge.

The periods I've felt the most intense need to transition has been later in life, and that's been problematic for me. By this time I've established my life and identity, and to reestablish all that is difficult. I built roles for myself for decades, and now I'm trying to redirect those roles differently, and lose as little as possible. Those that transition younger have less of that to face, and an easier time with looking like the gender they feel they are.

One good example is a good friend of mine Pat, who transitioned Female to Male 25 years ago. Pat is absolutely passable as a male, and no longer feels it necessary to even address that about himself at work. He's really worked on all aspects of himself, and with that many years of testosterone, all the physical signs I normally look for in F2M's aren't there anymore. I see the same in many M2F's I know - the younger ones can completely fool me, as well as those decades past their transition, and it's getting pretty hard to fool me anymore.

But why did they transition younger? I think it's the intensity of the desire and need to match their inward feelings. I've seen people in really rough situations go either way - stick it out until later in life, or go for it sooner than later. The ones who've had great support from family and close friends do exceedingly well, and statistics show that, with reduces suicide rates and better success in life.

Yesterday I was at the PFLAG Southern California Regional Conference, and watched the presentation done by one of the Trevor Project people. The presenter, Liam, did a wonderful job, and showed all kinds of information about how they're making an impact on LGBT youth, including trans* youth. Liam is a young transman himself, and you can see why he's so articulate and successful - his mom was there supporting him, and she also spoke earlier in the day, during a panel discussion about trans issues.

In the end, we just need to be respectful and supportive of each other. Whatever timing fits our lives is fine for us, and we all need all the support we can get. I'm happy that more and more, trans* needs are being met medically and covered by insurance in more and more places. It's made a huge difference for me, and that's the main reason I waited until now, was that it was not affordable for years. But, last year transgender coverage became mandatory in this state (California) for all insurance policies, with no exclusions allowed. I took advantage of that and became the first person in this state to get that coverage from the insurance carrier I have through the union I'm in. So far, I've had no troubles with getting everything I need paid for (of course there's copays, but they've been very affordable).

So, in summary my conclusion is that when we transition comes down to how strongly we feel we need it, how much knowledge we have, how much support we feel we have, and whether or when we can afford it.

I'm always happy to hear of someone transitioning at any age, and hope the best for them.

Ann

[celeste26]

Is it possible that our own acceptance of the idea of being TS sometimes takes awhile. That and denial are the twin towers of late transitioners.

[Eryn]

Is it possible that our own acceptance of the idea of being TS sometimes takes awhile.

That, and simply realizing what GD is. For me at age 50 TS people were ultra rare and the only one I knew by name was Christine Jorgenson. CDers were kinky and of course I couldn't be one of them since I was "normal." I knew that I had an inordinate interest in feminine things but I didn't dare to look up any information on GD because all those sites were p***. Nice people didn't talk about such things and people with sensitive jobs didn't even dare think about such things.

What a difference a few years makes. Laverne Cox is a major TV actress and on the cover of Time. Kristen Beck is out there with her story. Suddenly being TG is, if not "cool," at least publicly acceptable as something other than a Flip Wilson character. I am, at least on paper, protected in my job against discrimination for being TG. There is so much more information out there and our stigma is now lessened. The day is coming where we can all walk the path we desire and the number of "late transitioners" will drop.

[LeaP]

I agree with your first paragraph, Eryn, although I would add Reneé Richards. Your post brought back some of my thinking from that time period - in particular your comment about CDs. I was aware of CDs, though I don't think I ever heard any term other than "transvestite." What strikes me now, given today's "transgender" usage, is that it never occurred to me to associate transsexuals with CDs. The difference was crystal clear.

Your second paragraph ... not so much. There is some more acceptance and legal protection, but I think perhaps you overstate it. Media coverage is still sensational in nature, even if there are more transitioners. Will there be fewer (proportionally) late transitioners? I would say maybe ... the presumption that there would be fewer relies on assumptions about psychological dynamics that may only apply to a few. It is just as likely that suppression will continue to play out in many lives.

[Lorileah]

Other things to take my time. Military, college (8 years), marriage, GF, building a practice...

More was money and "knowing" that I would lose it all if I transitioned (Now I am OK losing some) and the fact that the surgery wasn't up to what I wanted.

[Jorja]

Lorileah, I agree that the surgery wasn't up to what I wanted either. That is why I waited 10 years before having SRS. Still, compared to what is done today, what I had done was very basic and required several additional surgeries over the years to make it look.... real. But that nasty birth defect was gone and I was at last all girl.

[samantha rogers]

I think we are all on our own paths. We all possess different tools and resources both mental and tangible. We all face different situations in our lives and the tools and resources we have allow each of us to do the best we can at any given moment. The value in these threads and discussions is in being able to read accounts of how others have dealt with similar albeit unique and different situations, isn't it? The advice, admittedly, is usually worthless, but the examples, for better or worse, can be helpful in enabling each of us to envision a better path forward for ourselves. The key is finding the courage, clarity, wisdom and insight to accurately assess ones own needs. That courage and clarity comes to some early and others later and to some never at all. Each path is unique. Isnt it?
Compassion rather than judgement seems to me a great virtue.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Please flesh out what you are seeing as judgment..

Judgment has its place. Especially in the context of something so life changing...at its simplest level, a person who comes here bragging about panties and transition in the same breath is gonna get judged as clueless....there are lots more less obvious examples and of course making judgments expressed as name calling and personal attacks are totally out of line

The most ironic part is that its almost always the person complaining about being judged that is doing the name calling and the "judging"!!! I'm no psych doctor but "feeling judged" seems to be a terminal condition around here.

[Kathryn Martin]

Compassion rather than judgement seems to me a great virtue.

Compassion without judgement is the cop out position of everyone who doesn't want to be judged on their own merits.

It's like saying the guy who hacks his arm off because he felt like it needs our compassion. A lot of nonsense that.

[samantha rogers]

Kaitlyn,
I thought my meaning was pretty clear but I guess not. I think this whole thing is pretty tough for anyone to wrestle with in a very judgemental world full of stereotypes and little compassion for anyone outside the lines of established narrow conformity.
Not all are blessed with great intelligence, strength or wisdom. Even those who do possess some of those qualities do lack others. And each of us face obstacles in our path that our unique to ourselves. What we share is our humanity.
It is easy to judge.
It is easy to throw stones and feel superior.
Its an easy way to feel better about ourself, but it comes at the expense of someone else, likely making mistakes, but doing the best they can, with what tools they have.
I cannot speak for anyone but myself, of course, but it has always been my way to do my best not to judge, since no matter how smart, pretty, wise, talented, successful or whatever each of us may be, there is always someone better.
In a career as an actor, I always found the most talented actors to also be the most humble and self effacing...the least likely to judge lesser actors as untalented, and the most likely to reach out a helping, and kind hand.
I took that as a lesson, and it stands me in good stead still.

[Frances]

It's like saying the guy who hacks his arm off because he felt like it needs our compassion. A lot of nonsense that.

Actually, he kind of does, on account of his mental illness. Compassion does not equate enabling.

[LeaP]

One of the reasons I liked Jorja's question so much was that it facilitated talking about the difference between varying levels of intensity versus different manifestations of intensity (e.g., even at comparable levels). Having that conversation explicitly sidesteps the judgment points that are cropping up as well as the discomfort that underlays them.

Transsexual intensity is a theoretical measure of transition need. Manifestation is how that need is actualized (i.e., manifestation is not intensity in itself). The problem at hand is that a certain combination of intensity, manifestation, and (early) timing is assumed to equate to some sort of grand judgment about intensity. And it doesn't!

It is perfectly plausible for a given transsexual individual at any level of intensity to manifest that need in different ways, at different times, for an incredibly complex set of reasons. That's not to say that there aren't different levels of intensity. There certainly are and that observation was made in the earliest days of modern analysis and treatment. In fact, it is just as plausible to suppose there are individuals who transition quite early despite having a somewhat less intense need to do so, assuming their personality, psychological makeup, circumstances, and opportunity make that path straightforward.

As I said before, I would characterize any transition that didn't start in the preschool years to be a late transition. Why, because some of the arguments that are often advanced against late transitioners are just as applicable to those who are transitioning in their 20s. If, for example, you can challenge a transitioner in their 40s as to what took them so long with questions like "how did you hold it off," "how did you keep from killing yourself," "How could you avoid coming out," etc. – you can just as easily ask a twentysomething the same questions, or challenge them as to why they didn't run away, why they didn't buck their parents, why they weren't out at school, why they didn't go live with a relative, etc. After all, you might say, there are people out there who have done all of those things. The level of your transition must be less!

To which I say BS.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Samantha
you didn't answer my question..i understand not everyone shares the same blessings...i'm not stupid.

I responded to you because I find the idea of "compassion" vs "judgment" to be a self serving strawman....and what you are doing is exactly what you are finger pointing about
....so compassion beats judgment?... compassionate people are better than judgmental people?
..it feels good to judge all the judgers as not compassionate enough, yes?

The things you are saying are Pollyanna statements......I vote for world peace, infinite food, perfect understanding, unconditional love of all mankind and no more violence too... now what??


It's interesting to me because you threw out a lot of descriptive adjectives in your notes.... I find every person to be filled with strengths and flaws to varying degrees...

and I absolutely reject the idea that the best actors are the humble and self effacing ones...how can anyone possibly know that? the best actors are the best actors.....and the worst the worst...all of them infinitely different...this goes for any trade, any student and any person..

I am bringing this up to point out that your thoughts are judgmental in the context of your own post..you clearly lay out your standards for what is good...everything else being not so good..

.....I guess the less humble and self effacing of us do not make the cut...luckily for me of course, like you, I am incredibly humble and self effacing...although I am a terrible actor. hehe


and btw...I am not denying my own judgmental nature...I value pragmatism and personal responsibility over most things, to make that work it requires lots of judgement on my part.....and I don't find that it conflicts with my ability to be compassionate at all...

[Starling]

Are there any actual judges here?

:) Lallie

[Carlene]

I am a late transitioner and for my own personal reasons I am finding it to be a difficult but rewarding time. It doesn't seem to me that there is a right way or wrong way, a proper time in life, nor do I believe that there is an acceptable end point to transition. We are all very different people who share a commonality; on some level we identify ourselves as women. For a variety of reasons we may fully transition or decide not to.

With respect to the question of, "Why so late in life", I often ponder this without finding a clear cut answer. Perhaps life got in the way, or maybe denial of inner self allowed for gender socialization to mask my true identity. I don't know. What I do know is that I am here now. I am here, I am enjoying being here, I am growing emotionally (more than at any time in my life) with every passing day, and I am grateful for my self discovery.

Carlene

[MatildaJ.]

What I do know is that I am here now. I am here, I am enjoying being here, I am growing emotionally (more than at any time in my life) with every passing day, and I am grateful for my self discovery.

Beautiful. Yes. I find it makes more sense to look forward and be the person you need to be now, rather than to fret about what happened in the past and how you felt about it then.

[samantha rogers]

Kaitlyn, I fear you mistake me. Haha
No, obviously you are not stupid, and I never implied that you were. If you knew me, you would know I am far more likely to accuse myself of that than anyone else. I am keenly aware of my own shortcomings.
Nor was I finger pointing at anyone, not specifically. Nor, further, was this in any way about me “feeling good”.
Rather it was merely an appeal for kindness in how others are treated on this board. Is that presumptuous? I guess. But my concern is not for me. As I said, there is nothing easy about gender issues. Many of those who find their way to this relatively anonymous board do so from emotionally fragile and unstable places, where an unkind or callous word may set off negative repercussions no one else can predict. Kindness costs nothing.
Obviously we all make judgements everyday, in our own lives and about decisions relating to our own situations. I thought it was clear those were not the “judgements” to which I referred. I expect I value in my own life many of the same positive attributes you do. Rather, my objection is to what I have observed here as a trend toward judging the decisions of others in their lives and making those judgements known, voiced in what is often a hard, not to say nearly mean fashion, often filled with sarcasm. But, I expect you knew that.
So, is that a judgement, too? Yes, but one concerning manners and kindness. In that context, yes, I would say compassion does “beat” judgement, at least in terms of interacting with others. If that makes me a “pollyanna”, I will take that over the alternative, and happily. I prefer kind over smart any day. Another judgement? Why yes...but one that hurts no one, perhaps excepting myself, lol, and I can live with that.
And, if you go back and read over what I wrote, I spoke only of my own experience with actors, not of all actors everywhere. I stand by that experience and that appraisal. In an art form filled with insecurities, I have always found, in my personal experience, those actors most secure in their own abilities to be the kindest and most generous and the most honestly self effacing. Your experience may differ.

[LeaP]

And here we go again ...

But what the heck.


“When kindness comes at the expense of truth, it is not a kindness worth having. And when generosity leads to silence or abuse, it is not a generosity worth giving.” Rachel Simmons

There's an aphorism, platitude, or proverb for everything.

[samantha rogers]

Cute, Lea :heehee:....but irrelevant.
No one said anything about sacrificing truth. There is a difference between honesty and brutal honesty.

But nevermind...haha....I said what I had to say.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...:heehee:

You ladies have fun!

[sandra-leigh]

I grew up an outsider, but an outsider within the male group. I kept being a male outsider. If you are a perpetual outsider, the biggest most immediate "transition" is to change to be more mainstream. And I couldn't do that. If you already know yourself to be a perpetual outsider, it becomes difficult to separate "I don't seem to belong to society" from "I don't seem to belong to males". Not until you start developing a "female identity" that cannot be rationalized away as "unusual male". That did not hit me at all until I was 43 and was under treatment for Major Depression. And it kept growing. I didn't spend time denying it, but I did spend a lot of time trying to figure out how far along I was, what I wanted to do about it, and what price I was willing to pay. Oh, and wavering...

I did go through a period of badly understood compulsions, and risks taken. Those, with the totality of the other things I was going through, led me to start HRT, which calmed down those internal compulsions greatly. But if your medication keeps you "under control" then do you still need to transition? Somehow the HRT allowed me into the space where living as female "just becomes right", "just what you do". You stop "hiding yourself", you stop "explaining yourself", you just live what feels right. And for me once the HRT had calmed me down, it just evolved, no "plan", no "do this or die!", no "study study study": you just flow and become.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Cute, Lea :heehee:....but irrelevant.
No one said anything about sacrificing truth. There is a difference between honesty and brutal honesty.

But nevermind...haha....I said what I had to say.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...:heehee:

You ladies have fun!

I just reread the thread...I have to admit...I find your whole set of posts really rude..

Lea's post was totally relevant.


+++++
The thing you did , and I am being specific, is that you attempted to create an issue by hiding behind generalities. you came out of nowhere..

All you did was jump into a conversation, you made negative stuff up...and then you attacked the general made up problem....
in this thread the only mean post came from a person that is banned...

then when you were engaged in a conversation, you were asked a very simple reasonable question..you wouldn't answer it..

then when there was some back and forth you just said "have fun ladies"..."haha"...how condescending...
you belittle the efforts of dozens of people here that come to try to help people going through or contemplating transition...ugh

in the end...all you accomplished was messing up a perfectly good interesting thread...you butted in...it was rude...

If you want to be relevant, if you want to matter, you are going to have to do better than that.
if you don't care if you matter, then that's ok too.

[abbyleigh001]

Why??? The social tolerance level has become more liberal and many of us were always there: however, it was never prudent to come forward... It was a most difficult time... Having said that many of us are now enjoying the change in social attitudes and are now coming forward... What a breath of fresh air...

[Kathryn Martin]

Rather, my objection is to what I have observed here as a trend toward judging the decisions of others in their lives and making those judgements known, voiced in what is often a hard, not to say nearly mean fashion, often filled with sarcasm. But, I expect you knew that.

Since this a board for those who are transsexual and seriously consider transition, the last thing anyone needs in that situation is what you describe as kindness. What you actually mean when you talk about kindness is permissiveness. You support no matter what, whatever a person might want to believe about themselves against the odds of reality. Very often this approach originates from a desire of the individual to not have to face the hard questions that come with what transitioners have to do. Not to have to live with the social consequences of transition built on some some dream, some fantasy or in the case of older transitioners on comfort. There is research out there that older gender variant transitioners are often motivated by a comfort factor naturally flowing from years of crossdressing. But this has little or nothing to do with transitions that originate from moderate or high intensity needs occasioned by transsexed conditions.

Time and time again on this board we see people who strike me as of this type. Commentary and support given to them is often to exercise caution, not to throw everything in the wind, not to destroy their family, jobs etc. The reason is that once you have done that, you can never get it back. The other reason is that we see time and time again those that have transitioned as a result of a fantasy, dream or comfort back here complaining incessantly about the unfairness of it all, the treatment they receive, the lack of love, the loneliness.

Now ask yourself who lacked judgement when they decided to fuel the ill conceived notions of future happiness against all odds. Those that end up in the hell hole of their post transition take cold and bitter comfort from Samantha's kindness that may have at a crucial point just have been enough to make a fateful decision. What you call kindness is permissiveness, and it is never support. It leads people down the wrong paths at great costs. Real kindness, especially when you have older transitioners is to ask the questions that engender brutal self reflection about transition motives, about what the desired outcome is and if it is achievable, and finally prepare them for the world after, which as we have seen here time and again is not what they expected.

[Frances]

Kathryn's post should be a sticky.

[LeaP]

Cute, Lea :heehee:....but irrelevant.


With all due respect, I don't think it is. As with so many things in life, this is not so straightforward as people would like it.

I am not defending or advocating being unkind. I don't think anyone else is, either. Kindness has many faces. And whether or not kindness is intended, it may not be perceived or received as such. Hopefully this is self-evident.

While there are examples of unkind intentions here, as anywhere in life, I don't believe the issue that crops up here so often is so much unkindness per se as it is misunderstanding of tone ... and need, frankly. A matter-of-fact statement, an observation, a direct comment, a targeted response - the sorts of things which make up much of the content people seem to find "unkind" - are not unkind in and of themselves, nor are they made kinder by couching them in soothing language.

I'm not particularly receptive to certain kinds of moral correction. Kindness, for example, is inculcated by being kind – not calling others on their unkindness. Love by loving, not by condemning others for not loving. Charity by being charitable. It often seems that those who are nominally the most focused on certain moral, ethical, religious, and philosophical ideas are the ones who are the least tolerant. The same thing characterizes them all. They condemn others for not believing and practicing as they would like them to. And they condemn themselves by so doing in stepping outside of their proper role.

[Jorja]

Oh that Samantha, what on earth was she thinking? Doesn't she know kindness is not a topic for a TS forum? Doesn't she know that we are not happy unless we are clawing the eyes out of each other? Silly girl! :)

There are different types of kindness. You didn't know that, did you? In a perfect world, talk of cute cuddly puppies can elicit shrieks of joy from even the most hardcore person. In a forum where we are talking about major life changing subjects like transition, GRS, FFS, being straight forward and telling the truth even if it hurts can be the most kind thing that can be done.

Way too many come in this part of the forum with delusions of grandeur. They have a notion that they want to go full time and take the steps to change their genitals because it would be so cool. To be completely honest, there is nothing cool about having your penis turned inside out and stuffed up inside of you. Having your face carved and dismantled like last years Christmas turkey is not cool. Being insulted and humiliated with every step taken is not cool.

Yes, we can get kind of testy with you in this part of the forum but we are not being mean or nasty. We are being kind to you and that is cool.

[PaulaQ]

@ Jorja - transition is a terrible process, but it beats being worm food. At least so far from my perspective.

[Michelle789]

Just because transition is a terrible process, and all of the realities that go along with it, doesn't mean that we need to show harsh attitudes, nor beat up on people because they're being kind as in the sense that Samantha is talking about.

Now let me ask you one question, about a similar process. Alcoholism recovery, which I have a lot of experience in. I have 7 years sober so I am definitely qualified to speak about alcohol recovery.

Imagine what it would be like going to an AA meeting or a sober living or alcohol treatment center, which is supposed to help you stay sober. While there

1. Other people tell you that you are not a real alcoholic, so go drink on. Reasons people might tell you that you are not a real alcoholic.
a. You are too young
b. You were never married
c. You never got fired from work
d. You didn't start drinking until after 6pm
e. You don't have problems or weren't addicted to drugs other than alcohol
f. You are female - only men can be alcoholics

2. They serve alcohol at the meeting or treatment facility, openly tempting you to drink the entire time you're there

3. People pushing your buttons so they drive you to drink.

4. People discouraging you to stop drinking because you won't get the wife, car, house, kids, or anything back. You might even lose the wife, car, house, or kids in sobriety.

5. People telling you there is nothing cool about going to a meeting where there is coffee, cake, and a bunch of dudes who talk about their drunkalogs.

6. People telling you there is noting cool about being an alcoholic.


Btw, not everyone who is an addict loses their wife, car, house, money, or kids while active in their addiction. I have heard stories of people who lost nothing before they got sober, and lost a lot of or everything after they got sober. But that doesn't mean we encourage you to go back to drinking, does it?

Well, duh, there is nothing cool about being an alcoholic. But AA certainly helps me, because I am an alcoholic, because I need to stay sober, and because we maintain a positive attitude even during dark times.

There is nothing cool about getting your body mutilated either. There is nothing cool about wanting to commit suicide because of the misalignment between the mind with body and social role. But me being a TS, I need to transition, and feel much better about myself because I am free to be myself. And in spite of the fact that some people may feel a need to be harsh, I find that many people in the trans community try to maintain a positive attitude even during dark times. Does this sound familiar?

[Kathryn Martin]

Just because transition is a terrible process, and all of the realities that go along with it, doesn't mean that we need to show harsh attitudes, nor beat up on people because they're being kind as in the sense that Samantha is talking about.

I don't know if you have ever noticed, but those that have transitioned successfully have not described transition as a terrible process. We say it's not easy, it needs to be planned, don't rush in like a fool, be prepared, and reflect, contemplate and make sure this process is for you. Terrible, not so much, for those that truly need it, it is life affirming, it is authenticating, it is beautiful and it is the most important step in our lives. And those that have taken this step and succeeded have nothing to complain about once it is done.

It is one of the reasons why we are horrified but the terrible stories people tell about their process. You can read this over and over again on this board, the crie the coeur, the horrible suffering, just read the damn thread titles. The reaction by and large is nothing but soothing tsk, tsk, the "kind words" which reek of "I am so glad that this is not me" but are there any lessons from this?

So when then is it appropriate to talk about the realities of those that are about to create this so often repeated suffering for themselves. The lessons of reality, which are not about the time after someone has found themselves in the hell hole, should be learned long before, long before you actually make your first steps. That is the time to challenge.

[LeaP]

Does this sound familiar?

I've read through your list,
In fact, I checked twice,
Trying to see who's naughty, not nice,
But all I can come up with,
Is zilch.

Seriously? No. I find very little of what is in your post to be comparable.

[Kimberly Kael]

I don't know if you have ever noticed, but those that have transitioned successfully have not described transition as a terrible process.

To be fair, it is frequently described here by successful transitioners as being painful, sucking, and destroying lives. It isn't a big stretch to interpret that as being pretty terrible. I do see a strongly negative tone being used frequently here, and those who don't adopt a similar tone are sometimes treated pretty disrespectfully. Your underlying message is perfectly sound here: it's not a game, nor something to be approached without a lot of caution and preparation, and people do need periodic reality checks. They also deserve to know that there's something to hope for on the other side and that there are some experiences that aren't unrelenting tales of woe.

An array of viewpoints helps a great deal, and piling on to reinforce a monoculture doesn't allow for that. On occasions when we get a real case of pink fog or an imposter around here we do tend to see most of the regulars arrive at similar conclusions even if they come at it from different directions.

[DebbieL]

There are many reasons why many of us transition later in life. Here are a few of that I personally had to deal with.

Even as young as 3 years old, I preferred to play with girls instead of boys. I literally didn't have the instincts to safely play with boys, even boys my own age. i didn't fight back or push back when pushed, or when my toys were taken. As a result, I often became a target of EVERY boy who simply took EVERYTHING and pushed me into the corner. It was only when there was no way out that I would scream and lash out, and then break down crying.
On the other hand, playing with girls was natural. They types of games we played encouraged cooperation and sharing conflicts were rare and easily resolved.

It wasn't until I was in 1st grade and told that because I was a boy and couldn't play with girls, that I could verbalize "I want to be a girl!".
When I did tell them, several times, they didn't take me seriously, until one night my mom caught me in the bathroom wearing her clothes.
I also came home with bruises on my chest, waist, legs, any place covered by pants and shirt. Often, I would come home crying loudly, and between sobs saying "I wish I was a girl!"
Mom was seeing a therapist herself, and asked her therapist what she should do about my desire to be a girl.
He told her "We treat that with electroshock, aversion therapy, and if that fails, a lobotomy.
He went on to explain that aversion therapy was essentially torture, a combination of electric shocks to genitals, visual stimulus, and drugs to induce fear, nausea, vomiting, and pain - all at the same time.
Mom had been through shock therapy - she once described it as 90 seconds of agony that seems like hours, followed by oblivion for a day.
She was determined that she would keep my desire to be a girl a secret until she could find some REAL help.

By 4th grade, my asthma was so bad I was put into a research project. For six weeks, I stayed with the girls' house mother and spent weekends and evenings with 30 girls - it was supposed to stress me out.
Instead, my asthma recovered so dramatically they were thinking about having me live in the boys dorm.
When they had me spend 6 weeks with the boys' house mother, and spend weekends and evenings with boys, my asthma got so severe I almost had to be hospitalized twice.

They had me see a psychologist, at first almost every day. It took a while to build up enough trust to tell him I wanted to be a girl.
He wasn't surprised at all, he even said "we know that, it's pretty obvious, but it's not something we can do at this point, we can't even discuss it".
He taught me biofeedback techniques, learning to control my emotional state to reduce the severity of the attacks. From first grade to sixth grade, I was hospitalized 64 times.

Mom did what she could to support me. She taught me to cook, clean, sew, crochet, knit, do needlework, beadwork, and various other crafts.
Dad took me to symphonies, ballet, and opera, as well as learning to sing, and play the clarinet. He even told me that according to a test he took in college, he was 75% female himself.
When mom and I were the same size, she would take me shopping and let me pick out her clothes for church and for work. I had a real talent for fashion, and she always got compliments.
She also told me when she was putting these clothes into the good-will bag. I could take clothes from the goodwill bag, because she didn't like it when I would steal her clothes.
She would also tie her hose together after she wore them. I could wash them and keep them if they had the knot. I noticed that many didn't even have runs.

When I was 10, my father took me into his bedroom and started reading books about the biology of sex. The books were technical, not erotic, and used the proper medical terms for everything.
He then explained that I didn't have testes like other boys because mine were up inside me like ovaries - I hoped that they really were ovaries - he told me that if they didn't come down by the time
I was 12, they would do surgery to bring them down. The books also described puberty of both boys and girls, including periods, wet dreams, and the usual stuff. As he read the parts about how girls change, he could see me getting interested, excited, even wishing for it. When he read about how boys change, he could see my looks of disgust and could see me getting upset.

When my testes did come down, I was furious. I read what I could about castration, and tried "do it yourself", using a bunch of rubber bands to strangle them, even using a hammer and a 2x4 to try and destroy them. Nothing worked. When I turned 14 a music teacher told me I had a Bass voice, I went into self destruct mode, turning to booze, drugs, and even being suicidal. As a result, I was misdiagnosed with epilepsy and couldn't drive for 2 years.
When I was in 8th or 9th grade, they did the movie about Christine Jorgensen, and Myra Breckenridge. I learned that it was medically possible to be a girl. I also learned that it was incredibly expensive. My parents found out that doctors could lose their medical licenses and hospital priviledges for such things. I was trapped, I was changing, and I knew it.

Because I was so feminine, I found that more and more of my male friends were approaching me romantically. My cousin tried to kiss me, other boys wanted sexual favors. As Rex I wanted nothing to do with sex. In my fantasies, I was always a girl, with another girl. When I would dress up and watch TV or read magazines, I would find certain men attractive, but after being violently attacked so many times, I wanted nothing to do with them for real. Still, I began to learn who actually was gay, and after a while, I just started introducing my would-be suitors to each other. The gay jocks protected me, and I was encouraged to get involved with theater. Maybe they could even teach me how to act more like a boy or a man. By default, everything I did was feminine, gestures, walk, sitting, standing, giggling, covering my mouth when I laughed. It was all obviously girl even when I was trying to act like a boy.
I got into women's college, because they needed some guys for the choir and theater. But socially, I was almost always "one of the girls". On Stage crew, I took a lot of abuse from the other guys. They could see that I was girlie, and would give me the worst possible jobs, hoping I would quit, but when I came back smiling and said "That's done, what's next?", they finally started treating me like the other girl tom-boys on the crew. These girls took me under their wing and stuck up for me. In college, I was officially a virgin, even though I had a lesbian lover for almost 9 months.

When I had to drop out for a year because my dad drank the tuition money, I went to a community college and got cast in a show there. An 18 year old girl, a professional fashion model, decided to seduce every member of the cast, and I was turning out to be a bit difficult. I was her last one, and she figured it would be a one night stand, but when I told her I was a virgin, she set up a meet at her house. Now that I had more time, I did my "lesbian thing", and the one night stand ended up lasting 6 months. However, the moment she found out that I was transgender, that I might enjoy wearing her sexy lingerie, and more, she dropped me hard. When combined with a number of other upsets and traumas, I ended up in a mental health program.

When I told them I wanted to be a girl, again they weren't surprised, but they told me "we can't even talk about that". The good thing that came out of the treatment program was that I got clean and sober, I had a few relapses, but had my last drink 3 years later in may of 1980.

When I met Leslie, I told her I was transgendered, about 3 weeks after we moved in together. She tried to be nice about it, but made it clear that she was only comfortable with it at home in the bedroom. So of course I didn't tell her that what I really wanted was to transition. Even before the wedding, she began to balk, and we suffered through 8 years of painful marriage. The best parts were our two children. I loved taking care of them, holding them, feeding them, changing their diapers, giving them baths, being a mommy. On friday night, when I came home from work I would go "My Baby", and would do everything so Leslie could relax for the week-end. On Monday morning, She would say "my baby", so I could work my long and crazy hours.

In sobriety, I did the 12 steps several times, and eventually found a sponsor who wanted to work with Debbie. I wrote it out in my inventory, about how I wanted to be a girl. He asked "What's her name", and he gave me a week to come up with one. He told me to write several pages of inventory, as Debbie, fully dressed, at home. He was surprised at the neater hand-writing, better grammar, and more personal details. There were also more feelings. He also noticed that I came up with far more than expected in far less time than usual. He pointed these things out.

He then said "So when do we meet Debbie". It was early August, and I said "Halloween?". He said "OK, that's a start". He then gave me little baby steps, like changing in the car and driving a few blocks, the next day a few miles, the next day putting on make-up, the next day walking in an isolated park, one step at a time, helping me to become confident enough to wear the dress on the appointed day.

In the mean-time, my marriage was getting ugly. We went to couple's counseling. Leslie was quite happy to tell him I dressed up and expected him to villify me and vindicate me. Instead he set up private sessions for each of us. I recognize a few of the questions he asked me from the COGIATI but there were more. He was also interested in how I answered as well as the answers themselves.
When he saw us together he explained to Leslie that I was a type 6 transsexual. He went on to state that he was surprised, most transsexuals as extreme as me that he had worked with, had either transitioned in their mid to late twenties, or had committed suicide. He suggested that one possibility was that the marriage had sustained me enough to keep me sane and healthy.
I was referred to a new therapist for transition coaching, the official diagnosis was "battered spouse syndrome", it didn't make sense until I read the description, and realized it was a perfect fit. The therapist was surprised at how quickly and easily I took on the Real Life Experiences, and within a few monhs I was living primarily as female other than work. He was ready to reccomend me for hormones.
It finally came to a point where my wife showed me a letter. Her husband's sister told a friend at her church about me, the friend introduced Leslie to a social worker who was a member of this fundamentalist Christian (Nazarene) church. The letter stated that my visitations were detrimental to the kids and my visitation should be revoked or limited to 1 hour of supervised visitation every 2 weeks. Leslie also pointed out that this would not reduce or eliminate my need to pay child support. I also knew that her husband had been whipping my son with a belt. She told me that if I didn't stop transition immediately, I would never see my kids again.

I moved from Colorado to NY in hopes that she would at least let me continue to talk to them on the phone. Then she demanded that I send her pictures of Debbie so she could prove to my son that I dressed like a girl. Instead, I had her put my son on the phone, told him I had wanted to be a girl for a long time, that Leslie knew, and that I didn't tell her until after we were living together. I also told him that it didn't change the fact that I loved him and wanted him to be happy.

I knew that if I ever wanted to see the kids face to face again, I would have to abort the transition, at least until they were 18 and could make their own decisions.

When my youngest turned 18, 14 years later, i had gained a LOT of weight. I remarried, but this time my wife knew that I was transgender, and "in the ideal world, I'd transition in a heartbeat, but it's not an option right now". My daughter finished college, and I was free. At that point, I had a stroke that took out my left side. I went to my daughter's wedding sporting a cane, and accepting all the "special assistance" that was appropriate. I was quite shocked to see that her step-father, who was 10 years younger than me, looked 30 years older than me. Leslie was even friendly toward me.

It took about a year to fully recover from the stroke, and it was a wake-up call. I realized that I needed access to many things that only seemed to be available to me as Debbie. In fact, much of the reason I recovered from the stroke at all was because Debbie had taken over. I took on getting back into gender therapy, dressing, and losing weight. I went from a size 24 to a size 16 in less than 14 months. Debbie was good for me.

When my wife began to realize that I was seriously considering transition, and was about to start hormones she said "I'm not OK with that". We had talked, but not enough. I literally went nuts. I'd wake up at 3 AM with suicidal thoughts. I was watching "1001 ways to die" and cold case files to see which ways were most effective. I was scaring myself. When I talked to my doctor about these feelings, she gave me 30 minutes to get to the local psych ward - she told me that if I wasn't there when she called, she would call the police and have THEM take me.

It was a wake-up call for everybody. I agreed to go to more 12 step meetings, get back into gender therapy, and have Lee come with me. Lee also insisted that I tell her how Debbie was doing and even encouraged me to get back on RLE. She began to realize that she actually liked Debbie more than she liked Rex. She could see that I was much happier. The therapist recommended that I start hormones. Within a year, I had to start working as a woman because I couldn't hide it anymore. This spring, I got my legal documents changed so I am now legally Deborah, and I am legally female.

I can't tell you how much happier I am. I still have things to deal with, challenges at work, irritating people, and so on, but I just seem to enjoy everything so much more. Furthermore, everyone who knew Rex and now knows Debbie, likes Debbie MUCH more. Rex was a loner, isolated, even a bit anti-social. It was an obvious strain to try and maintain the mask. I'd do "factoid dumps", to avoid talking about real feelings. Debbie on the other hand generally loves people, she's happy and it shows, she's patient, she listens more, and doesn't feel as threatened by confrontation.

What's really interesting is how little the physical things changed. I had a bass singing voice but my speaking voice was always high. Most of my mannerisms were feminine as well, not like an effeminate gay man, but like a woman. When I put on the dress, wig, and make-up, I actually look normal. When I took my wife's coaching and dressed age appropriate, situation appropriate, and weight appropriate, I found that I blended in so completely that people are often shocked when I tell them that I was a man until about 2 years ago. Several people have asked how Lee and I could possibly have been married in 2006 since gay marriage wasn't legalized until a few years later. Lee gives the cutest little grin and says "He used to be my husband, but now she's an even better wife".

When you see a 50+ year old MtF, and they are finally in transition, just remember that they have been on the front lines, they are the hard core survivors, they are the miracles who somehow managed to keep their sanity long enough to see the day when they could be themselves. We beat incredible odds. A recent study done in the last few months got responses from 9 MILLION transgender and transsexual people. The results confirmed previous research and showed the staggering reality of how much of a difference transition can make. Current estimates are that nearly 30% of all transsexuals actually commit suicide when they are unable to transition. Nearly 75% of the survivors have attempted it at least once by the time they were 30. Most of those who did not transition suffered persection, were forced out of their homes, had to resort to illegal activities such as prostitution and drug dealing, and host had been the victim of violent crimes.

On the flip side, those who did transition were happier, healthier, more successful, experienced less discrimination, and were satisfied with their lives.

Imagine that you had a disease with a 35% mortality rate, a 75% morbidity rate, and all it took to cure it was some pills and maybe some surgery. If it was cancer, would they tell you to get out of the house and die? I think not. This is why the American Psychiatric Association and the American Medical Association have now declared that it is UNETHICAL for a medical practitioner to try and convince a transsexual who meets the criteria to NOT transition. The AMA is even advocating that all insurance plans cover HRT and SRS.

We've come a LONG WAY in 50 years.

[arbon]

All I wanted to try to figure out by my question is, what is/was the difference between me and so many of you? Why did I need to transition at 22 and so many of you are well into your 40s 50s and 60s even your 70s yet most of you report having the need in your 20s or earlier too.



In the other thread my answer to this question was that it was mostly fear, which is true but still only a part of it.

Really I find it very complicated and difficult to answer. How do you compare what was going on inside one person to what was going on inside of another person? You can't really.

Why it took me so long, I don't have a definite answer. I did not have any real clarity about the issue. I had the body I had and thats how I was identified by everyone else - as a boy. Yet I had a deep wanting / wishing / need to be a girl. It was very conflicting and confusing for me even when I was really young, and it was my secret. I would not talk to anyone about it.

The way I internalized that was to think of myself as bad, or wrong, or sick, or perverted, someone even god could not love. I had a lot of self loathing, a lot of shame about it. I did not consider the idea that I could really be a girl that just ended up in a male body. My mind did not make that leap. However I did suspect I was transsexual or transvestite based on the few clips about such people on tv way back when but I did not know the differences or what either really meant, I was just relating somewhat to the people I saw (and I really did NOT want it to be true that I was like them!). But I could not get my mind around it all.


My late teens and early twenties were a very interesting time. That gender issue was very much there. In my heavy drinking it did slip out, my secret was not as well contained as I liked to think that it was. One night, a holloween, I crossdressed and went out. My first time in public crossdressed! It was pretty horrific though, not much fun. I wanted it to be real so badly, I was very drunk, and feelings I had been trying to keep stuffed inside came gushing out. It was very embarrassing and it was ugly, and it really messed with my head. it sent me running to a psychiatrist. During my time with him we did not not get deep into the gender issue though, he was mostly focused on my drinking, depression, relationships and figuring out what medications i needed to be on (what an amazing cocktail of drugs he had me taking!).

Maybe if we had been able to focus more on the gender issue, if I could have gotten past the shame and fear and if he could have helped me understand it better then things would have been different? But it instead once I was sobered up I had greater resolve to stuff what I felt down and try harder to accept my life as male. I found god. Over the next 15 years I kept it somewhat under control but there was a lot of self hatred, depression, self injury - yet there was some sort of balance to it all. Sometimes I would scream and hit myself, punish myself - like all that internal pressure just had to get out somehow. It was kinda crazy.

My second great crossdressing event in public in 2008 mucked up what balance I had. Like the first time it just overwhelmed me how much I wished it were real! that I was real, and not a guy in a dress. That was the tipping point that sent me spiraling down into the worst depression for the next couple years as I tried to figure it all out, and eventually to seek professional help from someone who seemed to know a lot more about the issue then the first person I had seen years ago. I also started to come into more contact with others via the internet and in RL. Thats how I ended up here in 2009 and the time I was grasping and one of my ideas was to learn to enjoy and control crossdressing. But I quickly gravitated to the TS section. Things finally started to become more clear to me.


So it took me more years to reach some understanding about what was really wrong with me, to change my thinking of it as being a sick perverted person to thinking of myself as a woman that just ended up with a male body,

You had that clarity a lot younger then I did.

[PaulaQ]

I don't know if you have ever noticed, but those that have transitioned successfully have not described transition as a terrible process. We say it's not easy, it needs to be planned, don't rush in like a fool, be prepared, and reflect, contemplate and make sure this process is for you. Terrible, not so much, for those that truly need it, it is life affirming, it is authenticating, it is beautiful and it is the most important step in our lives. And those that have taken this step and succeeded have nothing to complain about once it is done.


It's nice when you have the option to plan for this. Some of us don't really get that chance. We sit in denial of the reality of our misery until death seems like the only, and possibly best, alternative. At least that's how it was for me. There was no "plan" - there was "do this NOW, or die."

As for being a terrible process, I've lost many things - my marriage to the love of my life, the home where I wished to retire, my observatory (a lifelong dream and hobby), my kids, most of my prior friends. I'm one of the lucky ones. I still have a career. I have money. And I'll get through this - of this I have no doubt. (Actually, at this point, struggles or no, I'm much happier than I've ever been.) These were grievous losses though, and I feared them. It was only when I realized that I'd gone through and survived similar losses before that I had the courage to go forward. I knew I could survive transition. I sure didn't want to repeat the experience though.

I've watched others endure far worse - assault, rape, loss of their career and livelihood, terrible loneliness, poverty, all because of transition. Those are pretty terrible experiences.

Sure, this stuff isn't so bad if you are financially well off, white, and have a profession where people don't generally care whether or not you transition, and you have SOMEONE in your life who's supportive. If you don't think transition is a terrible process, try doing it when you are dead broke, uninsured, with no job, no vehicle, and no friends or support. (Add in being a minority, for extra suffering.) Unfortunately, GD doesn't much care for your life situation.

The main thing I often don't see mentioned here is the notion that there really is hope on the other side of transition, and that it gets better.

Hey look - it's really great if you can plan and organize your life and situation so that you have the best opportunities for success in your transition. If you can do that, then by all means, you should. Congrats - you didn't wait too long to start transition. Some of us do wait too long, and the process can be much harder.

[MaudeB]

A couple of things: The Internet, 50th birthday coming, being w/o mate finally and the realization that life is short and there is a definite end to it. I didn't want to grow old mumbling "I should've..."

Maude

[arbon]

I don't know if you have ever noticed, but those that have transitioned successfully have not described transition as a terrible process. We say it's not easy, it needs to be planned, don't rush in like a fool, be prepared, and reflect, contemplate and make sure this process is for you. Terrible, not so much, for those that truly need it, it is life affirming, it is authenticating, it is beautiful and it is the most important step in our lives. And those that have taken this step and succeeded have nothing to complain about once it is done.

My experience was not much fun, it was rather terrible at times (but necessary). I have seen others go through much worse then me to. Lose your job, family, get alienated in your community. Things can get very ugly in a persons life, fast.

Peoples experiences are different. You may have breezed through it, some do, but not everyone is so fortunate.

[LeaP]

Imagine that you had a disease with a 35% mortality rate, a 75% morbidity rate, ...

Debbie, you need to get your facts straight.

Here's one: there are no figures available on actual transsexual mortality rates.

Where you go from there is extrapolation from other data. There are many different approaches possible. But even using the most aggressive attempt rates, intersecting those with available statistics on suicide deaths associated with attempts in other populations and across demographics, then applying them to the most conservative estimates of the transsexual population doesn't get you to a 35% mortality rate.

You've quoted these sorts of statistics before. Do you like their drama for some reason? (If so, you are not alone in this.) In my opinion, it hurts more than it helps by overemphasizing the focus on suicide and away from the aspects of the condition that need relatively more attention. As the latter includes things like comorbid conditions and pain, people often take these concerns to be one and the same with suicide prevention. They are not.

Taking this specifically to the concerns of the OP, there are some useful observations to be made along the lines that I suggest above. First, suicide attempt rates are lower among older people. They are much more efficient at killing themselves then younger people, however. Some subgroups have death to attempt rates as low as 1 out of 100. Older people as a group have rates that are more like 1 out of 10. And, of course, a lot of late transitioners experience a lot of pain and conflict. "Holy moly," you might say. "That must mean we need to scramble on suicide prevention for late transitioners"!

To which I would say no. Suicide prevention is education and contact focused. Awareness programs. Hotlines. Pattern recognition training. Crisis intervention. Etc. What many late transitioners (and potential transitioners) need more then anything else is the facts on what is going on inside them, contact with other transsexuals, and a healthy dose of reality-based planning.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Being TS lays your life bare
no bs allowed. reality only please...

the whole kindness thing is not reality based...
the "accusation" is not real...the "solution" is hopelessly trite... there is simply no time for it if you are for real....


There is no reason to be mean to someone just to be mean... altho that has happened on occasion, its just a personal thing between posters..its intermittent ...it happens...but we are a big group talking about massive life changing issues...

The only real meanness I've seen here comes from the very folks that whine the most about how they are treated and how people respond to them....

recently the most viciously mean statements all came from the same place...they came from being challenged by reality

....the frustrating thing about reality is that there is nothing you can do to change it, you can only respond to it.
and feeling helpless against something you can't affect is a big source of anger ..

[Cheryl123]

With all due respect to everyone here (and I mean this sincerely) I don't really care about why I'm a late transitioner (and I am really really late .. I began when I was 66). All my life I've been emotionally-mentally screwed up, and I've always know I've wanted to be a girl. But until recently I have never associated one with the other. At various times in my life I've been diagnosed as mildly schizophrenic and maniac-depressive. When one psychologist asked me what I most wanted to be or do in my life, I replied I wanted to be a girl.

"But you know you are not a girl, correct?"
"No, I don't know that. I feel that I am."
"You know you have a male body, correct?"
"Yes, but that doesn't change how I feel."

From that brilliant conversation, I was diagnosed as having a "Borderline Personality Disorder." When I told another therapist I found it impossible to form emotional attachments with others, he said I had an "Attachment Disorder". Great. I'm paying $50 an hour for someone to place a label on what I already know is true about myself. I did get a prescription for Prozac out of that session, and that helped a lot.

So I remained dumb and crazy until last year when I had a chance encounter with one of my departed wife's old friends. I asked her what it was like growing up trans. The words she used to describe her experience described my life as well. She gave me some of her hormones to try and from that day on my life changed for the better. I knew I was trans and I saw a way out of my craziness. |

Fast forward 14 months later, I take my hormones under my doctor's care and I have a therapist who is coaching (more like mothering) me through transition. Miraculously I've lost my fear of appearing in public as me and I spend far too much money on clothes. Although I'm not out to everyone just yet, I plan to have surgery in a year. So, like I said, I don't care why it took me so long. It is what it is and I am what I am. I do know that I've never been happier in my life than I am now, and that's what matters.

[Marleena]

This where I say there are no hidden agendas with the reposting of the question. The question was originally asked by a well respected senior member that transitioned fully at a young age. I found it a good chance to share how people arrived at the decision to transition and when. It is not a competition nor was asked to be degrading or judgmental.

It has been a good thread (I think) for TS members to share their stories and I can see where it will help others to understand why we eventually decide to transition. It shows that we are all human.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Cheryl i get that looking back you may not care but i believe sharing your experience is a wonderful thing..

it helps other people who may be in a situation that is similar to yours... your success in dealing with this has the power to help other people.

[Jorja]

I agree Cheryl, it is important to share your story with others here. There are a lot of new girls (not in age but just coming to the realization) just lurking and might feel that there is nothing in common until one person posts their story and there it is in print in front of them. It allows them to see that it is entirely possible to make the change and be successful. That it is not just a pipe dream. The reality is that it is happening every day. Young, older, it has been happening for a long time. They are not the only one with these feelings, wants and needs.

[Rachel Smith]

I agree too Cheryl. If I had not found this site and read about the transitions of others who knows where I might be now. See signature below.

Now to kindness and compassion. When I first came here I ask a myriad of questions. Did I always get the answer I WANTED? No. What I received was knowledge from those that went before me and that knowledge was oh so helpful as well as invaluable to me in my transition. No one however told me it would be terrible. Difficult, yes, costly, yes, but I never took it in a mean spirited way. As for the quote that was posted saying "you can practice being right or practice kindness". That may be true when some one asks you if they look fat in this dress or some other trivial thing but give me right and honest when it comes to life changing things like transition.