Is the TG community accepted better now?

[Katiegirl]

If I had been asked that question last week I would have said yes but now I'm not so sure, let me explain:-

Last night there was a "Rocky Horror" theme party and nearly all the girls turned up as maids in stocking short skirts eta (Some really shouldn't have tried). Some men turned up dressed particularly or wholely as women. As I was taking 4 women to the party, I didn't dress (except I was wearing stockings suspender belt and girdle under my drab cloths.). It was interesting to listen to the comments being made about the men crossdressing, a lot was not very nice, such as " I always thought he was a bit that way" meaning gay, or how could his girlfriend dress him up like that he is too good he must have done before, I must have a word with her" or as one guy asked me "how can he wear those stocking what do you think" I just said I hadn't given it a thought. This and some of the comments made by the girls in the back of the car going home made me realise how deeply mistrusted the TG community is held in, even by mature educated people. The theme must be gay, something wrong in the head, have to be careful with him, cropped time and again. I was greatly sadden by the whole thing not only by the misconceptions held by them but also if I came "out" or outed I would almost certainly lose the friendship of most of them

I know that in many countries the law in theory protects TGs, but in practise do you think things are are better for our community as a whole?

:bs:

[KathrynW]

This and some of the comments made by the girls in the back of the car going home made me realise how deeply mistrusted the TG community is held in, even by mature educated people.
And the reality of the situation is...it's not likely to change anytime soon...not in our lifetime anyway. ;)

[Sweet Susan]

I have to believe that as a whole things are better. But be real, things are never going to be as you might like them in our life time. People are just too narrow. I have seen continued acceptance on one hand, but by and large, most people view us as freaks.

[Sharon]

And the reality of the situation is...it's not likely to change anytime soon...not in our lifetime anyway. ;)

Why not?

In my lifetme, many advances have been made by other minorities. While prejudices still exist among the ignorant, and more still needs to be done, we have seen Jim Crow laws all but disappear; we have seen a five-fold increase of women in the workplace; we currently have a movie in wide distribution about homosexual cowboys which probably couldn't have been even made ten years ago, and more specifics than is almost imaginable to someone who remembers how things were not so many years ago.

As bad as things sometimes seem as far as discrimination is concerned, it is better now than ever before. The TG community is, unfortunately, at the end of the line and we all seem to be waiting for our own Rosa Parks to get things rolling. But with negative attitudes from among our own, nothing will change.

[Amelie]

Why not?

In my lifetme, many advances have been made by other minorities. While prejudices still exist among the ignorant, and more still needs to be done, we have seen Jim Crow laws all but disappear; we have seen a five-fold increase of women in the workplace; we currently have a movie in wide distribution about homosexual cowboys which probably couldn't have been even made ten years ago, and more specifics than is almost imaginable to someone who remembers how things were not so many years ago.

As bad as things sometimes seem as far as discrimination is concerned, it is better now than ever before. The TG community is, unfortunately, at the end of the line and we all seem to be waiting for our own Rosa Parks to get things rolling. But with negative attitudes from among our own, nothing will change.

This is my thoughts as well. Thanks Sharon.


Hey, I am a gay, something wrong in the head CD.

[SherriePall]

I would have to ask if those who made the comments were of our generation (Baby Boomers in the U.S.)? If so, then I believe the comments were probably appropriate for those of our age. I believe in the U.S. those who are younger are of a different mindset when it comes to TGs. Any thoughts along those lines, girls?

[Darlena]

Most certainly, things are definitely better for us girls. Only a few decades ago I could have been arrested and thrown in jail due to my preference for femme attire. Nowadays the cops just smile in that wiley way that they have. If word got out about you then you were osterized by the entire community. Take heart my younger Sisters.., our day is nearly upon us. Beginning in the late 50's, with the civil rights struggle until the present, the momentum continues. We could very well be next to gain legitimate recognition as endowed with the civil liberty to be who we are without reprisals. Get out there in the public eye. Be an ambassador of good will. Educate the uninformed. Give a damn and try to make the difference. Nothing changes until the individual makes some kind of sacrifice. You only stand to gain dignity, acceptance and liberty. Love & kisses,

[KathrynW]

Hey Sharon...
You can call me negative if you want, it really doesn't offend me. I'm the kind of person who deals with circumstances and real life as it is for me. I don't live in PA, NY, CA, or any number of other places which are much more liberal and accepting than where I live. There is a big difference. ;)


But with negative attitudes from among our own, nothing will change..

and (you know who you are) before you get the idea, ...please spare me the details of how you wore a skirt in Arkansas and didn't get your butt kicked. ;)

[karen marie]

i think they're better now than they were 20 years ago.
there have been several documentaries on cds that i'm sure
have helped and enlightened some people.it also seems that younger
people are more tolerant of many of lifes diversities.probably won't
be where we'd like it for quite a while yet.things come in small steps.
to bad it's not like thailand.how fascinating that a culture that
is thousands of years old can be so enlightened.
hugs,karen.

[Katiegirl]

Thanks for your replies, as I thought, a varied response.

On the whole things are moving but not nearly a fast as I thought.


I would have to ask if those who made the comments were of our generation (Baby Boomers in the U.S.)? If so, then I believe the comments were probably appropriate for those of our age. I believe in the U.S. those who are younger are of a different mindset when it comes to TGs. Any thoughts along those lines, girls?

Yes SherriePall, they were all that age group


Hey, I am a gay, something wrong in the head CD.

They think all the TG community is the same Amelie, they are wrong about all being gay, but they may be right about "the something wrong in the head CD"

:bs:

[CarolDonna]

I do think things have improved, but there's an underlying level of intolerance toward a lot of things, especially crossdressers. I believe the intolerance is driven by fear -- fear of people and things that are different. The US society seems to be trying to step back into the 1950s.

Rather than mope about things, I'm taking steps to improve them. The treatment of crossdressers is just one problem -- there are many other indications that the rights of people are being stomped upon. I recently joined the ACLU. I'm looking into other organizations as well. The religious right seems to be a particular problem for us right now (and we aren't the only ones to whom they are causing problems).

On a personal level, I think there is some degree of acceptance, but I detect an underlying element of disgust in people about CDs among some people who are outwardly supportive, or who at least aren't antagonistic toward CDs.

I'm really astounded at how the Archie Bunker mentality has taken hold of so many people.

Carol

[Rachel Morley]

This and some of the comments made by the girls in the back of the car going home made me realise how deeply mistrusted the TG community is held in, even by mature educated people.

Educated yes, but educated in the ways of the transgendered mind?... no.

Things are (generally speaking) better for us now than they were in the past but there's still a ways to go...and our cause is a "slow moving animal". Also IMHO other minority groups (gay, lesbian, etc) do more in the way of being pro-active for their cause than we do. I'm talking in a general sense here...as far as I'm aware there's no such thing as a "crossdresser pride day" like there is for gay pride. Alright, I know we're now all supposed to be under the same banner of GLBT, but I hope you know what I mean.

Anyway, the sad truth is people don't understand us, and why should they? what's in it for them? Generally people don't seek out education on any subject unless they're interested in it. People tend to get educated on subjects they're not particularly interested in by either just what they've heard in conversation or by the media, tv, movies etc. And as we all know, some of the ways we are presented are less than accurate :(

[Darlena]

But, we are a somewhat invisible minority. Sometimes I wonder about the "Minority" stigma.(there are alot of repressed cases as yet unearthed out there) The African-Americans couldn't hide the fact that they're black. Jews, while going to their synagogues were out in the open. We however, are just soooo closeted! No wonder that we are so stereotyped into an unsavory image. The truth will out. And it will set us free. I think the ball is finally rolling here. I cannot guarantee the outcome. That depends on us collectively as well as individually. But we are coming into our own as a consensus to be reckoned with. Take heart. Love & kisses,

[Alystin]

Personally I've seen both sides of the coin. Right now, the people that i come out to, accept it openly and try to find out as much information about who and what I am. But on the other side of the coin, the people that aren't aware that I dress and view me as a heter-male in society, say things to me that I can't even begin to believe!!! And most of them are, unfortunately at work or from my coworkers! And that's from north of the border where we have same sex marriages across the country.

but still things have improved in the big picture I think. And things will get better like alot of people have said already! But we're the ones that are going to make it happen

[uknowhoo]

Whereas "I wore a skirt in Arkansas" got virtually no airplay when it first came out in 1973 (even in PA, NY or CA!), the re-make has been steadily climbing up the charts, up to #69 this week if I'm not mistaken.

Seriously, I think most all of us would agree that, in general, a fair amount of progress has been made over the past few decades, though not as quickly as we all might like. I think we could also agree that there is some correlation between the level of acceptance and the age and location of the individual, i.e. redneck baby boomers in red states (like AR) vs. twenty-somethings in San Francisco. Individual results may vary. :cheeky:

0.02

Hugs,

Tammi

[Lindahexi]

Educated yes, but educated in the ways of the transgendered mind?... no.

Things are (generally speaking) better for us now than they were in the past but there's still a ways to go...and our cause is a "slow moving animal". Also IMHO other minority groups (gay, lesbian, etc) do more in the way of being pro-active for their cause than we do. I'm talking in a general sense here...as far as I'm aware there's no such thing as a "crossdresser pride day" like there is for gay pride. Alright, I know we're now all supposed to be under the same banner of GLBT, but I hope you know what I mean.

Anyway, the sad truth is people don't understand us, and why should they? what's in it for them? Generally people don't seek out education on any subject unless they're interested in it. People tend to get educated on subjects they're not particularly interested in by either just what they've heard in conversation or by the media, tv, movies etc. And as we all know, some of the ways we are presented are less than accurate :(

Angel you said it so right and put it so well, I agree with you and just wanted to say so.:thumbsup:

[Karren H]

NO!!! Not better! Don't see any openly crossdressed people do you? But you do see plenty of openly gay people. Still not looked upon favorabley by society. Too bad.

Love Karren

[SherriePall]

A short geography and cultural note to Kathryn W.:
Just living in Pa. doesn't mean everything is liberal. There may be pockets of it in the state, but for the most part it is in only the two largest cities and even then not all of their suburbs. Remember, Pa. has the third largest number of acres devoted to farming in the U.S. So, we're not all sophisticated city folk.

[KathrynW]

Whereas "I wore a skirt in Arkansas" got virtually no airplay when it first came out in 1973 (even in PA, NY or CA!), the re-make has been steadily climbing up the charts, up to #69 this week if I'm not mistaken.
uh huh...#69 with a bullet...:dance:
sounds like something that should have been on the Lou Reed "Transformer" album... ;)

[paulaN]

Katie you had a very good chance to straighten them out on the tg matter. you should have blistered their a@@ es. told them how ignorant and back woods their thinking is. Set them straight with out outing yourself of course. I probley would have blown it too. I'm not that fast a thinker on my feet when it comes to stuff like that. Oh well.

[Butterfly Bill]

NO!!! Not better! Don't see any openly crossdressed people do you? But you do see plenty of openly gay people. Still not looked upon favorabley by society. Too bad.

One possible reason you haven't seen many openly crossdressed people is that too many are trying to "pass"

[KatieZ]

Alright, I know we're now all supposed to be under the same banner of GLBT (


WHY??

No offense angel. I know you weren't stating that as your belief. I just wanted to point out that that's part of the problem.

Because the gay and lesbian organizations take us in under their cause, mainstream America naturally assumes that we are all gay.

We need to be represented as a stand alone group. I know some of us are bi and a few gay but the large majority of us are hetero and we should be looked at that way.

Hugs

[CharleneCD]

Ultimately our fortunes are tied to gays. Not only are we tied to them in the LGBT spectrum, but most peoples perceptions of us come from drag queens, as that is alll that is seen in the mainstream media. I mean what is the first question asked by spouses when they first find out? ARE YOU GAY?

This is both good and bad. Good in that we have a very organized group that is supposed to help us look out after our intrests politicaly. Bad in that the religious right side of our society will always remain unacepting because of that tie.

As for whether things are better for us now, I will say yes. The mainstream media is starting to portray us in a honest and more positive light. Will thigs get better? Yes, but as with all other groups that have gone through this before, ie; blacks and gays, it will take time, effort, and education to gain more widespread acceptance. We just have to remember thatt there will always be that group of closed minded bigots that will never accept us.

Our best hope is for us as a group to be more open to the public. When people find out that they may have known and been friends with a CD all their life, it is a little harder to be unaccepting.

[Helana]

What we are talking about here are monsters from the Id. We all possess a deep well of primeval fears from where our hatred, malice and violence stems from. We learn to keep these base feelings tightly under contol and hidden under layers of rational thought but they never go away.

It is easy for me to switch off my CD mind and imagine I was just a regular guy and listen to what my demons tell me about CDing. Words like "morally repugnant, sexual perversion, deviant behavior, disgusting" etc come to mind. In essence people like to hate us because we are such easy targets, it seems almost natural to want to marginalise us because we must be sick to do such a thing. It is fun and gratifying to be able to point somebody out and ridicule them, knowing that you belong to the "normal and morally superior" group.

Moreover, because we are otherwise act and look normal, we are an invisible enemy within which makes us even scarier to others as they cannot tell us apart. It is like watching a horror movie when you dont know which character is really an alien in disguise. It is no coincidence that Hollywood has made plenty of serious films about homosexuality and transexuality but none about hetrosexual crossdressing. Quite simply, we hit too close to home and thus it becomes even more imperative to denigrate us behind our backs and snicker at every opportunity.

[TGMarla]

Sometimes I think that when people are confronted with crossdressers, it's like a wounded hen at a pecking party. One narrow minded person makes a derogatory comment, and others chime in just because they may feel that it's expected of them. Everyone piles on, because they feel that if they don't, the first idiot will think he's sympathetic to them or gay himself. (We're all gay, you know...just ask anyone....) But overall, I think the Western World is becomming more tolerant. Like the whole gay/lesbian issue, people just get a little tired of fighting it, and find that it's easier to accept. Of course, ignorance is the one commodity that this world will never run short on, so there will always be one moron around to spoil the party for everyone else.

[CarolDonna]

So what do we do about this? Let it run its natural course, and perhaps see acceptance by the general population in 50 years or more? There are dangers to coming out to the public; physical dangers. Crossdressers get murdered with much greater frequency than the general public. Do we let another group (gays and lesbians), who have been very supportive, speak for us?

Should we become more active politically, even if it is behind the scenes?

I'm not used to being in a situation where it can cause me serious problems to try to make the situation better.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

Carol

[Falcor]

Sorry,I don't see too much evidence of greater acceptance in general,maybe the ridicule is less hostile,thats about it.Nevertheless,technology has granted us the ability to search out each other,and how goodo is that?
Grow within our community,stroll into the night,look into the galaxos,let the soft breeze of distant starlight touch your face,and say;"I'm who I am and I'm bloody well lucky".
goodo..falxx

[swiss_susan]

Maybe society has a point. So many of us experience feelings of guilt and shame at what we do. Something we like to blame on society, for its stereotypes. But can we reasonably expect society at large to accept us when so many of us have a hard time doing so.

I do believe that things are easier now for us in general than they have been in the past.

However I do question our right to acceptence. People may dislike or ridicule what they want. I think perhaps what we want in terms of acceptence is unrealistic.

While yes it would be nice to be able to go out freely dressed however we want, which we can but like any choice we make in life it may have consequences we are not willing to pay.

Well I guess thats it,

Susan

[DonnaT]

Well Katie, did you try and set your 'friends' straight? Did you try and explain that issues with gender identity are separate from issues of sexual orientation? That being a CD does not make one gay?

Have any of you heard derogatory comments about the TG community, and just let it slide. Afraid you might out yourself?

We have no one to blame but ourselves, if we, as individuals, do not confront our acquaintances bigoted remarks about any issue, be it about gays, race, transness, etc. Bemoaning their comments on a forum will not educate them. Instead, they will think you agree with them.

Think about it a minute. You are in a situation like Katie mentioned. You make no attempt to confront your friend(s). They in turn think you have the same mindset. Now, you are out with your friend(s) and they make similar comments about TGs, in another TGs presence. This TG stands up for the trans community. Your friends make arguments and then bring you into it by saying "Hey, Bill agrees, don't you Bill!?" What do you do? Agree with your friends or not?

You don't have to out yourself when trying to set others straight. I've confronted acquaintances and one of my brothers on gay issues. Haven't heard any comments about the trans community.

As for society being more or less accepting, there have been a number of comments by members of this forum and other forums to the effect that they've been out and had no problems. And unless more of us are out and about, showing that we are OK, not a bunch of perverts, etc., not much is going to change.

Note also, that our ties with the GLB community came as a result of an incident with DQs in . . . NY (I believe). That incident brought the gay community together in a more open and political way. The T community saw this and joined in, since the GLB groups had the lobbying power set up already. However, there are a number of T groups with lobbying power fighting for our rights. And there are states and cities and companies slowly integrating anti-discriminatory policies to include gender.

[MsJanessa]

And the reality of the situation is...it's not likely to change anytime soon...not in our lifetime anyway. ;)
My experience is that it has changed for the better---remember the 60s and 70s---there used to be laws against crossdressing, now there are laws(in Maine at least) protecting those of Us who chose to public engage in "gender expression"---this doesn't mean that everyone loves Us but We have come a long way. BTY every time one of Us goes out in public, in a small way it is like Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat.

[Alystin]

So what do we do about this? Let it run its natural course, and perhaps see acceptance by the general population in 50 years or more? There are dangers to coming out to the public; physical dangers. Crossdressers get murdered with much greater frequency than the general public. Do we let another group (gays and lesbians), who have been very supportive, speak for us?

Should we become more active politically, even if it is behind the scenes?

Carol


I think that we should be enlisting the help from our GLB countparts. Or at least their advice on how to go about it. Gays have faced the same ridicule and dangers that we're facing right now! But we still need to be careful, even with our "friends" in the GLB. Because I heard, through the grapevine, of even Gays that aren't sympathic to our cause. Which means that we're the ones mostly in charge of getting the TG commmunity accepted by the whole of society. We can't hide behind the GLB community for protection. Which is what I think the TG community has been doing, to a certain extent!

But it's going to take a long time, because we have to change society's view of its' self. After all Western society is male focussed, and most TG's that are outted, in one way or antother, are usually M2F and it's unthinkable for anyone to want to give up the right and ability to be male. In society's eye! It's more accepted for someone to want to display the want to be more masculine. Especially since men still make more than women in almost all careers! Men are repsecting more when dealing with most situation. for example My GF and I were shopping for xmas presents and a birthday present, while in one of the "box stores" we had problems finding what we were looking. My GF went and asking one of the sales reps where we could find it and the rep (young, male) kept brushing her off to do other things, like answering the nifty little phone that they have! And as soon as I joined her from my own wondering, he ran off still with the phone attached to his ear to find someone else to help us. BTW I was dressed in drab at the time.

I have even been asked by friends (mostly male) that I've come out to, why would I want to give up my masculinity!

That's the mis-conceptions we're up against in our quest for freedom! which is a lot harder than tell people that you prefer sex with the same gender as yourself because even the romans have openly practised same-gender sex! So the predisposition of acceptance of Gays has always been ingrained in our society! But the practise of wanting to, at least, appear as the opposite gender, has yes been around for just as long. It is still looked upon in the same light. Very few people of the majority are willing to accept it openly as a part of human behaviour, while the rest remain ignorant to the whole idea!

[Katiegirl]

Well Katie, did you try and set your 'friends' straight? Did you try and explain that issues with gender identity are separate from issues of sexual orientation? That being a CD does not make one gay?

Have any of you heard derogatory comments about the TG community, and just let it slide. Afraid you might out yourself?

We have no one to blame but ourselves, if we, as individuals, do not confront our acquaintances bigoted remarks about any issue, be it about gays, race, transness, etc. Bemoaning their comments on a forum will not educate them. Instead, they will think you agree with them.

DonnaT, your point is well taken, I had considered seriously going en femme but at the last moment I chickened. My Ex-wife outed many years ago to all my friends where I used to live and I lost most of them overnight and I remember it well. I did asked the girls why they were making such a fuss, one came back what did I think about it. I just said that it didn't really matter to me if any of them were crossdresser, so what, what harm are they doing? I really didn't get a reply, then the subject got changed. It was a weak response I know, but the point was taken I think. It may be at some point I will be outed, and at the point I will make a stand.

Thank you all for your responses they have been interesting as well as varied.

:bs:

[ReginaK]

Everyone wishing for acceptance should read this:
http://genderevolve.blogspot.com/2005/12/change-we-wish-to-see.html

It was posted in another thread, but got very little attention.

[KathrynW]

Everyone wishing for acceptance should read this:
http://genderevolve.blogspot.com/2005/12/change-we-wish-to-see.html

It was posted in another thread, but got very little attention.
The Lacey Leigh perspective on things...
No big revelation there...
But hey...I guess it works for her ;)

[Glenda]

I'm afraid if we click our heels together three times and make a wish we won't even get back home to Kansas. You have to extend some effort to get somewhere. Wishing just doesn't do it. Almost everyone here wants acceptance but the majority can't even find a peaceful arrangement at home. We're hiding from family, friends, neighbors......we even hide from people we don't know and will never see again. How can we possibly go out with other people who make derogatory comments about someone who is crossdressed and not question why they feel compelled to criticize someone else for having fun and harming no one? None of us can change the world but each of us can change a little corner of it.

The public at large thinks crossdressers are weirdos hiding dirty little secrets because we are keeping dirty little secrets. I'm not saying that everyone should come out of the closet and demand equal time. It is not practical for everyone to do so. But why not stick up for the little guy (or girl)? You don't let the neighbor kid beat up on the other neighbor kid do you?

I hang out at a red neck bar and being from Texas I do know what a red neck is. In my little corner of the world, I have friends and try to act friendly to everyone. It doesn't matter whether they are lawyers or doctors or plumbers or carpenters or accountants or musicians or straight or gay. I've been a few of those things myself and could have been more of those things had I chosen to do so. The world needs all of us.

Somehow in my little red neck bar word got out that I was a crossdresser. Maybe it was my toe nail polish or those girls talking about going dancing with Glenda at Chances or maybe it was that Halloween party I showed up at. But somehow everyone found out. I still go there. I still play pool. I still dance. I still talk and drink beer. I still play golf. Now everyone at the bar knows a crossdresser. I'm not a threat to any of them. I may be a novelty but I can still rule the pool table longer than anyone else. If they're lucky, they might even be there when Glenda shows up on rare occasions.

The point is, we can all do our part. Some of us can dress. Others can defend one's right to do so. What we shouldn't do is be afraid to defend the little guy (and girl) because we're afraid of what someone will think about us.

[size7satin]

I believe every day changes for the better.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

As others have said, if you take a look at history, clearly things have changed significantly -- even without a concerted effort on our part. Yes, some places are less accepting than others -- and I don't mean to downplay the challenges folks there face -- but I've also heard many stories like Glenda's from other folks in places that where you wouldn't expect people to be accepting.


None of us can change the world but each of us can change a little corner of it.

Exactly. Gays and lesbians didn't have social acceptance thrust upon them, they've fought for it. We could learn a thing or two from our drag queen sisters about how to be out and proud. As I've said before, my experience is that if you act like you deserve respect you usually get it.

But for those who choose to remain in prisons of their own making, things won't ever change.

[Girly Sara]

I believe that the transgendered community is slowly, but surely on the road to being accepted. Don't get me wrong, i'm not naive enough to believe we will be (if ever) wholly accepted by society. This probably explains why i'm apprehensive about going shopping enfemme for the first time. Regrettably that's life!

But let's not focus too much on the negatives and drive forward the positives (too much negativity in this mental world) Since coming out as Sara nearly 3 years ago, life has been brilliant. Don't get me wrong, i've had the ups and downs of being a tranny more from an emotional standpoint, i.e. feeling low having to come back down from the high of being Sara, to being drab 'Alan'. However, i can honestly say i've not had any major problems expressing my femininity through Sara or as Alan either. 99% of people say they admire what i do and to keep up the work. In boring male mode, i keep myself sane by having regular salon treatments, i.e. manicures, eyebrow waxes, tints and so forth and keep my body hairless as often as possible. And you know what? No one gives a damn! I often get shop girls comment on how nice my manicured nails look as Alan. It's great and makes me feel on top of the world (sorry if that sounds a bit exaggerated!) Seriously! I've even had a bra fitting. As long as we remain respectful to others, we are more likely to be respected by them.

Can anyone else relate to what i'm saying?

Take care girls!

Sara xxxx