Going to rant a bit

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Last night I read a post in the "loved ones forum" about one ours who has decided to repress her desires rather than risk losing her SO to disclosure. Specifically she is boxing her female identity and is willing to risk the emotional trauma that goes with it. She wasn't saying that she is planning to continue dressing and not tell her SO . . . she is trying to quit, purge and so forth. She was honest in that she knows it will be hard but that is what she is willing to do for her relationship. Now for the most part the comments were supportive and/or benign but as always happens with this "tell / don't tell" polarized debate, some people latch on with hurtful and downright nasty comments. Really do terms like liar, coward, deceitful and so on do anyone but yourself any good? Is it cathartic to let loose with sniping comments without any understanding how those words can affect people's emotional being? You don't know where a person's mindset is when they post a thought or share an epiphany and the words you commit to posts can have consequences. Surely on some level you must understand that?

We all know and I am sure some of us have experienced the depths of emotional trauma this thing we do can bring us to and I am talking about a very bad place. You may be emotionally anchored in this world but not everyone is and your one misguided attempt to be snarky could throw a person off kilter and they could end up doing something very serious. However, you won't know will you? That person will just cease to exist on this forum and you'll just assume they decided to run and hide because you told them what for. Seriously, how many here wonder what happens to those who have a bad experience on this forum and just disappear. We may think about it for a second but then file it away. IMHO some here really need to learn how to take responsibility for the things they write. Before you submit words to post, try thinking of the post like an up close and personal conversation . . . Would you be that nasty and rude to someone in person? Hmm . . . I am thinking most likely not. It is easy to hide behind a keyboard and electronic devices when sending out snide comments it is a lot harder to temper your emotion with common sense and good judgement. Not to mention most people would be afraid of the other person unleashing right back at them. Here is an exercise to consider. Try writing your comments down, leave them for a period of twelve hours, reread them in the context of what spawned them, temper the emotion and then edit (BTW . . . this post looked a whole lot different 12 hours ago :battingeyelashes:). I think you will find good judgment and common sense will prevail. Then and only then, press send.

Folks, when it comes to telling our SOs, that is a personal choice and each person's circumstances are different depending on when they found out themselves, how strong the relationship is, where they are emotionally and whole host of differences. CDing is not a shower cap "one size fits all" and what works for some may not work for others. So you came out to your SO on your first date . . . good for you and I applaud your strength of conviction. But that does not give you the right to call someone who has been in a committed relationship for 20 plus years, someone who is a good person, a loving and caring partner, a liar and coward. You know everything about your own life but you know nothing about that person and it is arrogant to assume you do. You are not the poster child for all things TG or a perfect example to hold up and say . . . "Hey this is the way it needs to be done because I am perfect".

Dispense advice by all means. But advice needs to be tempered with good judgment, understanding and politeness, not rude smarmy one liners. Some will say sometimes people need tough love to understand and I agree but tough love means understanding, caring, support with an underlying message of what you should do. Tough love is not rude, condescending comments. You can make your point by simply letting the person know from your own experience how you went about it, how it helped you and so on, that is tough love and good advice and for the most part that is what is found here and that is what makes this such a great place and beacon in all this chaos.

If you think others see you as a "hard nosed gal telling it like it is" . . . well perhaps others like yourself do but I dare say most don't. So next time before you let loose with rude comments, try turning that introspective lens inward and examining your own concept of perfection.

Hugs

Isha

[CarlaWestin]

Isha, thank you for pointing out etiquette and protocol. I've had some of my posted comments met with nasty revulsion. I've also been guilty of posting about my attitude as an older CD not being the most sensitive way to mentor younger CD's. I forget that the, just go for it, if it feels good do it, what have you got to lose, attitude is just not one size fits all. Your well written and thoughtful posts are a good example for all of us.

[ArleneRaquel]

Excellent post Isha. Keep up the great posts darlin.

[Kris Avery]

Isha,

Well said, as always. :D I agree on all points 150%.

Support may not be the first thing that brought us TOGETHER HERE but in the end - support is what keeps us here.

Failure to do that for others in an obvious time of need or crisis in a meaningful way - is not something that I easily excuse.
We all need support (in one way or another - at one time or another).

If you can't show love - show acceptance for the struggle!

[mykell]

:iagree:

[Donnagirl]

Isha,

I can only agree.... We should limit our intrusion into others life, relationships and emotions to examples of experiences and life lessons. Let them take what is of value to them and discard what is not. We should be focused on support, being the friendly ear to listen or virtual shoulder to cry on. I will never accept someone judging my decisions, my negotiations, the give and take and understanding with my family. No one can every truly know the nuances, the salient points that make my relationship strong or what can tear it asunder with a careless word... I don't profess to know anywhere enough to counsel, so I don't.. And I won't....

This forum can, and does, provide a valuable tool to assist. It certainly helped (saved) me and my relationship. For that I am eternally grateful. Positive support regardless of personal judgement should be the catch cry...

[Talisker]

Isha - I think some of this is related to folks putting their own situation onto others. Some of the TS are actually the most vocal and sure that all will follow their path. It's almost self justification. Others seem detached from reality IMHO but if they ask for an opinion should you lie to keep them happy? how much should you read into a few lines of text on the Internet anyway. Another part is the site access. I use a phone so there are no novels but I do tend to stay away from the more serious topics. For some CDS it's just not as serious for others and you can't always tell from a bit of text. This site is great and full of ideas but serious problems often need a face 2 face professional.

[Nadya]

Well said. I do not care for the attitude of "manning up" and having the one size fits all approach to being a CD, TS or TV. We all have different situations, backgrounds, etc. that regardless of how you feel personally, we should maintain a supportive environment. For as long as there has been the internet/forums, there has always been people making comments without thinking of the consequences. We need to remember that many of us although feel rather anonymous, we still pour our hearts out in an effort for emotional support. People can often forget that even if they have good intentions, their comments can be misinterpreted. Internet responsibly, people.

[Laura912]

Isha, well said or written. It is the conundrum of directive vs non-directive counseling, the latter being the preferred so that the advisor does not impose their own judgements on others.

[Crissy Kay]

This is one of those subjects that I usually do not comment on. But I would like to say that Isha is very right about it. A very thought full and smart post. I agree with her statement myself.

[DanielleLee]

Very well thought out and written post. I agree with what you've said in 100% and am restraining the urge to add my own 2¢ about the nasty comments I see towards those who feel they aren't in position to tell.

[Sonya]

Very well written Isha, it is on record in this forum that one of my biggest regrets was not telling before getting serious with my ex-wife and after getting caught still promising that I will stop this illogical behaviour. After reading the last sentence, most people may consider me as a bad person but you have to consider the whole package. Our diverse personal situations, upbringing and age group all play a role in the bigger picture.

I also don’t understand the hurtful and rude comments; we hardly know each other here. I am personally here to understand myself better, get others opinions and hopefully contribute and help others as well, I don’t think any of that can be achieved without bit of understanding and compassion. Like you said there are polite ways to express your own opinions.

[KittyD]

I hear ya Isha...
As you know my arty-farty freaky ways :D with Cding can bring some strange remarks, that have hurt...
You'd think you were safe from a slap down...
Does the forum have a naughty step?

KD

[Amy Fakley]

I'll just leave this here

http://i.giphy.com/KsgLFgQp7Elj2.gif

well said, Isha!

[NicoleScott]

We like coming-out success stories, and I'm glad that members post them. My objection is when it goes too far - "it worked for me and it will work for you". Worse is when it goes even farther - "if you don't tell her, you are a lying, cowardly, deceitful slug".
The OP's admonition is for the people who post, but it should also be for the people who read those posts. Every situation is different, and nobody on the forum knows your situation better than you do. The people who gave that judgmental advice won't be there for you if your marriage goes down, except for a "so sorry to hear your relationship crashed".

[Kate Simmons]

I agree with you whole heartedly Isha. When it comes to personal decisions, I always encourage the person to do so. Really, who am I to judge anyone? My purpose rather is to encourage whenever possible. Having gone through two tours in Vietnam and coming out in one piece I am here by grace anyway. That is the way I look at things. :)

[Eringirl]

:thumbup: well said Isha. How can someone make such commons without walking a mile in that person's heels?? The only information you have is what is in the post. That is extremely limited. We don't have the entire picture and even if we did, how are such comments helpful? People come here and post here because they find it helpful, to express their thoughts and feelings in what is typically a supportive environment. If someone asks for honest opinions, should that be what they receive? Sure, but there are ways to do this. Tact and diplomacy. The old saying "if you can't say something nice, then shut up" (okay, so I modified it a bit...). I do a lot of counselling in my job. Laura's comment on directive versus non directive is spot on. And, when you want to tell someone something, before you do, ask yourself this question: "Are my comments going to make me feel better, or make the other person feel better". The choice should be obvious. If not, delete, delete, delete....

Thanks Isha!!

:hugs:
Erin

[Amanda M]

Isha - you have hit several nails on the head. Well done. It turns my stomach to see some of the know-all, "I just tell it like it is" crap that finds its way on here. Laura, I like your comment about directive counselling. When counselling becomes directive, it ceases to be counselling!

My old Mum used to say "If you have nothing empathetic or helpful to say, then shut up!"

[Andy66]

Thank you, Isha. Sometimes we need a little reminder. I feel the way I feel, but I could have said it in a more understanding way. No hate was intended though, just a possibly heavy handed way of trying to help. My bad.

[Gypsy Sam]

Amanda M ,

Your old Mum was right on the mark. Strive to only offer commentary when asked. Empathetic or helpful is the best road to follow. Majority of people want to be understood which involves listening. Also liked your by line about "always get what you always got." Former supervisor used that for motivation and enjoyed reading that again.

[Teresa]

Isha thanks for making the point in your usual to the point style !
There are two sorts of critism constructive and destructive, my father was very good at the latter and fond of the saying do as I say not as I do ! Some members have too many of those traits, if they fail to see it then it should be pointed out to them !
As you say we have seen some desperate post's from members almost pleading for help only to disappear after the one question ! I only hope they found the answer somewhere !
I'm one of those who have had a desperate rollercoaster ride over the last fifty years and can say I have very good support from members since joining the forum eight months ago !
I do feel guilty that I've been too open and honest on the forum about my life but this is the only way I have of understanding and accepting my CDing !
Some people do appear to be on a self destruct course and put it over badly on the forum , but people should see through this and try to understand and help rather than give a verbal roasting !

[Katey888]

Well put Isha... :clap:

A comprehensive reminder for those prepared to read and digest... I've had similar views myself for a while...

I'd agree that members can choose to temper their advice but I'd also like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that we (The Mods and Admin) can react to moderate intemperate comments, we just can't be everywhere at once... (No...? :eek: No... Omnipotent retrospectively, yes - omniscient and prescient ["look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls.."] sadly, no...)

So, members are encouraged to use the 'Report Post' function (bottom left corner of every post) rather than to take the matter into their own hands with a playground fight... Both parties always seem to end up in detention in those cases.. :spank:

Katey x

[Bria]

Isha, thanks for spelling out in detail what I have thought about addressing several times, but just didn't quite feel that I had the right words. I like to think that we are all friends here, although we only know a little corner of each person. But if we are friends, then we should state our opinions as we would in person to one of our closest and most valued friends. That may mean that we tell them something that they really don't want to hear, but something that in our opinion will be in there best interest. I know from my own experience, the pink fog can easily cloud my vision and get me into trouble with my wife. I did that very recently and am paying for it with less acceptance of my dressing. A friend with a detached view probably could have told me that I had a bad idea if I had only asked.

Tough love is tough, but it also involves love and I could quote some very familiar passages about love, but I'm sure that most of you have heard them. Many who water here are here to try to figure out part of their life that it painful or troublesome to them. We should not heap more pain or trouble on them, but try to help them lighten their burden.

I've spent enough time on my soap box, I yield the floor!!

Hugs, Bria

[aussie cd]

Isha , you are an shining light in this forum !
Always love reading your posts
Another good read here and totally agree with your sentiments!

[charlenesomeone]

Very we'll and thought out post. I agree we should listen, tell our stories, but each girl has to choose her way.
One thing to keep in mind is postings sometime do not convey thoughts very well.
And we have all seen things written that would not be said face to face.
Treat others as you would want to be.
Group Hug.

[paulaprimo]

fantastic thread isha. you stated perfectly what i and i'm sure most here feel.
the rude and hurtful comments are something that has been eating at me since day one.
i've been wanting to start a similar thread, not as sugar coated as yours, and since my writing
skills are somewhat flawed i would of blasted certain folks. i know i couldn't of
been able to express my true feelings as well as you have done, so my thread probably would
have been deleted, so i thank you!! :)

[DaphneMiller]

Another great post Isha. As a relative newcomer, this forum is the closest thing I have to a support group, so any reminders for members to keep advice and interactions supportive and constructive is welcome.

As Charlenesomeone said: 'group hug' :)

Daphne

x

[JessicaJHall]

Isha, Your posts really help make this place special, and I couldn't agree more!! That said, I've been amazed given the subject matter here that most posters are very respectful (as you pointed out), because so many other forums are overrun by trolls, scumbags, and psychwads (oh my!!):eek:
So a special shout out to our admins and mods here, without whom, this place would probably become a sewer in a matter of hours. :cheer:
Hip Hip...

[Amanda1128]

Isha, thank you for saying what I was thinking.

[dee anne]

A great post. I agree with what Carla said in the first reply. I have not read them all. Thanks
Dee anne

[phylis anne]

Well spoken Isha,
I too am one of those in dire fear of coming out to my family ,friends and workmates ,because mostly of the narrowminded attitudes and othe rissues so I choose to be phylis when it is safe to do so . Secrets? surely many people have them for their own reasons . I have only been a memeber here for a month or so and I have learned much from all of you even when a "mod" would chase me with a rolled up newspaper:D LOL to correct me on needed issues ,I did not feel bad from this ,instead I grew to appreciate this watchful outlook on the board as it has made it a pleasant place to be thankyou all for that. I have approached my style as somewhat unisex/blended until I get more comfy in public then maybe a little more ,so to cap this no matter who you are you are an individual and only you can decide when to tell or not tell others ,or how far in public you wish to dress do what keeps you safe ,happy and in your comfort zone
hugs phylis anne

[Rachael Leigh]

Isha thank you you are so spot on with this, for me being in such a difficult relationship because of my choice to crossdress is very emotional indeed, as many here may remember I thought I was going to let this go and try and repair things with my wife but it didn't take long to understand it was way more than just my dressing and I needed to just be honest with my wife about many things. For some who have never told their SO it has to be guy wrenching to hold onto this type of emotional issue and something that is so close to us. All circumstances are different and we need to love and care for all that are here and remember that could be us

[justmetoo]

Well said, Isha (as is your usual wont, it seems). Judge not and all that. Encouragement, advice, support, camaraderie, these are all good in my opinion. Name-calling is right out. Shaming should be, as well. We are all individuals, with various circumstances, and have to make the best decisions we can for ourselves and our own lives and repsect that everyone else has that right, too.

[vicky_cd99_2]

Isha that was a very well put post. We do need to think of the feelings of others before we open our mouths. No matter how wide our shoulders might be our psyche might not be as wide or as strong when it comes to a basic verbal smack down. When it comes from an outsider, outside of close family and friends, it can be truly painful.

[Allisa]

Isha, right-on and well said.

[ReineD]

Now for the most part the comments were supportive and/or benign but as always happens with this "tell / don't tell" polarized debate, some people latch on with hurtful and downright nasty comments. Really do terms like liar, coward, deceitful and so on do anyone but yourself any good?

[bolded font is my emphasis]

I agree that most were benign/positive and I actually counted the bolded words.

1) Two people used the word "coward" pejoratively (but not "liar" or "deceitful").

2) A third person used both "liar" and "coward" pejoratively but later recanted as far as I can tell, if I look upon the second post positively. So we can scratch that one.

3) Two others used the word "deceit" descriptively (to describe a concealment of what is known), which is what "not telling" a spouse is. This is not pejorative.

4) No one said the OP was deceitful.

This means that out of 33 responses so far, two were insulting without taking it back. So the score is, benign/positive=94% and negative=6%. So why are we focusing on the 6%? There will be insulting people no matter where we are on the internet. If this is one of our worse threads, I'd say that we have a pretty good batting average compared to other places, where the insult rate can easily reach 50% or more.

I'd rather focus on the 94% and ignore the trolls.

<edit>

Isha, I forgot to mention that I do agree with you that we should not in general use harsh words. But for the most part, I think that members of this forum do follow this principle.

[Eringirl]

This means that out of 33 responses so far, two were insulting without taking it back. So the score is, benign/positive=94% and negative=6%. So why are we focusing on the 6%? There will be insulting people no matter where we are on the internet. If this is one of our worse threads, I'd say that we have a pretty good batting average compared to other places, where the insult rate can easily reach 50% or more.

I'd rather focus on the 94% and ignore the trolls.



Hi Reine:
Thanks for the quantitative analysis, and I fully get your perspective. I always enjoy reading your posts.

In my experience, people in a "fragile" or vulnerable state will focus on the negative comments. It can take 1000 "At-a-boys" to negate one negative comment, so sometimes that 6% can cause damage. So while I fully agree that this forum is head and shoulders above virtually all others, IMHO, the OP does serve as a good reminder.

Respectively submitted,
Erin

[Marcelle]

Hi Reine,

I agree it was only 6% but my observations were not so much aimed at this one post but more a general observation about how these "smarmy one liners" tend to creep into posts throughout the forum but more so when it comes to this "tell / don't tell" debate. Yes it is only 6% but if even one of those stray comments cause emotional distress to the point of someone doing themselves harm either emotionally or physically (because to be honest we don't know how people are going to take rudeness) then the other 94% good comments become a moot point.

Advice is good, sharing is good, and this is what support is meant to do. Yes, we may have to be a little more direct from time to time but rude and hateful (even a small percentage) IMHO is not tolerable. When I go out dressed en femme, if I was assaulted (verbally and or physically) 6 percent of the time, I am not going to go home thinking "heck 94% of my outing was good so I am fine". Most likely the hate and rudeness is still going to be the salient memory of that outing. Good is good and yes, we should celebrate that as a community and that is what tends to reign here in most posts. However, rude and hate we should not ignore and we should not tolerate IMHO. :)

Hugs

Isha

[Michelle789]

Isha, I definitely empathize with your rant. I read the thread last night, and I posted a comment about guilt and shame.

When I first read the thread, I could see why some of us might be outraged by the comments. There were several that were really insulting, and after reading this thread it sounds like some of them didn't really mean that. Not all of the comments were insulting or mean, but there were several that could at least be interpreted as being insulting. Whether or not the intent is that way is debatable. Even though it was only 6% of the posts that were hurtful, it is the hurtful ones that are the ones that stand out and cause the most amount of emotional pain.

Sometimes we get caught up in the heat of the moment and it creates toxic energy. I don't like receiving or making rude or hurtful comments, because I come to this forum for a peaceful discussion of the issues, and to give and receive moral support to other CDers and TSes.

I really hope that we can in the future be more respectful of other's opinions, and remember that we're also setting an example for the trans community by what we post, and that name-calling or mean or insulting comments are setting a bad example for our community.

[ReineD]

Isha, yes, the rash words seem to creep into the tell/don't-tell discussions more now. Years ago, the battle was between going-out/staying-in. The people who stayed at home were accused by a select few of not having any b*lls. I also recall, the average CDer didn't tell his wife then, in fact I remember a lot of "Where do you hide your stuff" threads with some very creative responses. I suppose the need to tell grows along with the need to go out.

I wonder what the contention will be five years from now, by which time I fully suspect the "no-tells" will have diminished greatly compared to the "tells". I wonder if the debate will be whether to come out at work or not. I believe you, Isha, are one of the forerunners in this area.

Eringirl, you make a great point. The CDing can be emotionally sensitive and the negative comments (the actual insults … not the differences of opinion) can wound deeply. But this has and does happen in other areas too: people have been and are frequently insulted over such deeply personal things as race, birth defects, and deeply held spiritual beliefs. Harsh words belong nowhere in an ideal world. But, we don't live in an ideal world and I think this forum is one of the kindest I've been on overall.

[Eringirl]

Hi Reine. Agreed, this is one of the kindest forums around. :hugs:

Erin

[JayeLefaye]

Lovely, heartfelt rant Isha! I've never liked the ease that the internet gives us to reach out and touch someone with the touch of a "send" button, consequences be damned.

When having conversations about things that matter, (and so very very very many posts on this forum DO matter as folks try to work their way through what they're experiencing, and they've found us and want to feel safe) whether it's in real life, or on-line, I learned three simple questions that I try to ask myself before saying anything:

1. Is it verifiably true?

2. Is it kind?

3. Is it necessary?

If my response doesn't hit those three simple criteria, then my response is best just kept to myself.

Jaye

[GretchenJ]

Hi Isha,

thanks for the great post, for distinctly putting words for what I am feeling, and for just being you

[Michellegryl]

Isha this was a very well thought out and well said post. I agree with you 100% and support your leadership in making this post. I try to live by something I read once written by L Ron Hubbard. "Never evaluate or invalidate another in the name of help". Unfortunately some choose to do just that and the results can be devastating. A good friend does not tell you what is wrong with you, but rather they seek to help you find your way and your own truth.

Hugs
Michelle

[Tamara Croft]

4) No one said the OP was deceitful.The word 'deceit' was used twice, one in post #3 and one in post #21.


You're lucky if she's understanding. Not just for CDing, but for the deceit as well.


Many a crossdresser ~ person has carried the burden of deceit for years upon years, only to find that EVERYONE already KNEW!

I find it amazing how one word can change a sentence....

Anyway, I found the thread interesting and also very mean, bitter and angry people should really get a life and stop focusing on trying to destroy others or go and get some serious counseling!

[Roxie]

Good post Isha,
I know from being in the closet and now not having to hide that at times I may of been a little harsh.I don't believe I've ever called anyone a derogatory name as I don't think that fits who I am .If for some reason Roxie has ever offended any one this was not my intent.Sometimes I just speak my mind to much ie(big mouth]
I'll try to be more helpful with my post
Roxie

[Ressie]

I've seen other (not CD related) forums with much worse troll activity. There's one where I might have even had a part in chasing a member or two away by just giving my opinion. It's easy for typed out words to be seen in the wrong context, since there's no body language or other non-verbal communication to go along with it. It's refreshing to see very little trolling here.

Are some of us cowards or deceitful for not sharing this with our wives? Those are strong words no doubt that I found a bit shocking. I think many of us have the right to be frightened of what may come about by coming out to the wife.

Anyway, others can feel hurt even without the intention of hurting. We can't all be equally empathetic and understanding unfortunately.

[wanda66]

Thank you, well put

[Isabella Ross]

There's good rants, and there's great rants -- yours falls into the latter category, Isha. As a newcomer here, I have to say that I hadn't seen much in the way of insensitivity; instead, I've found it to be a pretty friendly and supportive place. Yet when I reread the thread in question, I do see what you're talking about. I'll remember your words as I write every post I make from this point on. Thank you.

[LelaK]

Isha, it sounds like you're concerned about people's insensitivity on the forum. I had a similar feeling recently when one of my carefully worded posts was deleted, not by me. It's very discouraging.

[PaulaQ]

@Isha - I think your post is spot on.

I don't post much about myself anymore, and offer no profile details mostly because while I've gotten lots of friendship and support here, I've also had people who really, really hurt me. Indeed, one prominent poster here managed to put out a post that was so triggering for me that I attempted suicide last year - it was just the last little nudge I needed to finally act.

There are quite a few people on this forum who seemingly take zero responsibility for what they post. They forget that there are some on this forum who are undergoing intense personal and emotional crises. The attitude of "It shouldn't matter what I say - anyone influenced by an internet forum deserves what they get!!!!", can be found amongst some here. Really? It doesn't matter? Then what's the point of posting your thoughts and advice then? It's a cop-out, plain and simple.

You are also right that some have difficult understanding that not everyone is in the same situation as they are. Look - all of us can suffer from this - it can be genuinely hard to look at the world from the perspective of a totally different person. Still, we can try, I think, to be open minded.

[Sandra]

People on here and that goes for GGs as well shouldn't try and tarr everyone with the same brush. If they have had a hard time doesn't mean that they have to imply that all others are going the have the same hard time, infact why they come here makes me wonder if it' just to try and cause trouble.

[SmartDomWoman]

I think Isha is spot on that there is no need or justification whatsoever for some posters to resort to cruel and insulting remarks toward another member. Moreover, I think zero tolerance is the only way to handle it. No doubt the admins and mods on this site tend to the rogue naysayers and detractors quite well (which is a very good thing).

As a new member, I find the forum boards here to be very positive and encouraging for the most part. This site is a family of sorts - one in which we are here to encourage, provide emotional support and perhaps even inspire one another.

[abbyleigh001]

Life is a very personal journey and each one of us has a uniquely different journey... There may be similar points along the way; however, that typically will be the only similarities... That is why dress makers make more than one size of each dress...i.e. "One Size Does Not Fit Everyone".

[Stephanie47]

I made a comment on that thread concerning the rude remarks made by one or two individuals. I totally agree with your analysis. I also stated, and, will reaffirm here, there are many posters who are not posting anymore. Why? Perhaps, there is too much vitriol in some of the threads. Before I posted a response to the rudest comment I went back and read some of her postings. Doing that does enlighten why such vitriol is espoused. Over the years I've seen too many posters chastising others.

Yes, one size does not fit all.

[Wildaboutheels]

Unfortunately, there are no Forum rules that prevent cluelessness as you mentioned. Or people that post under the influence of which there are many, some admittedly so. Nor are there any rules that prevent some members from basically calling [countless dozens of] other members liars with ridiculous statements such as "not telling is lying", if they love you, your partner must/will accept, DADT is just wrong and can't/won't work, and that CDing alone can't/won't ruin/wreck/derail a Relationship.

Apparently people who post such nonsense have ZERO regard for others [especially Newbies] who DO read the postings of others here. Some of the new members who join ARE looking for help. Is it any wonder that so many lurk for so long before joining? Or never join at all?

Not to mention the silly folks who don't seem to understand the simple meaning of the word ALL." We have ALL suffered the pink fog". [wrong] "We have ALL thought about transitioning at some time". [wrong again] "We have ALL thought about/want to leave the closet". [I did long ago...for my own reasons. SO what. Many here, perhaps most, have little or no desire to/will ever leave their closet. I say Bravo to them for CDing their own way and not bowing to Forumthink] "We have ALL felt guilt and shame". [nope, never] "We ALL want to pass". [Certainly you can't be serious? Are your eyes so bad that you can't read that GIANT LOGO every time you come to this site, whether you bother to log in or not? Hint: It's those giant pink and blue letters next to the pink and blue ball.]

The simple REALITY is that this is just another free Forum and only the people who do actually read responses of others will see all of the garbage that masquerades as replies/responses/advice.

The worst [?] are the members who can never seem to remember that THEY are in charge of their own "contributions". If you don't like a member and/or certain questions, it's one's prerogative to ignore and find a panty or bra thread to spend time on. Trying to irritate other members with lame, thinly veiled insults just confirms one's own insecurities.

The real Q is whether folks who have read and/or contributed to your thread will change their ways?

Not very likely perhaps, but still good of you to remind folks to engage their brains before hitting the Post button.

It never hurts to ask.

[Badwolf]

I'm going to be one of the few dissenting voices here, but only on one real point.

There is a big difference in telling people they are being deceitful, or breaching trust, and trying to injure someone emotionally.

Visibility is a big issue right now for trans individuals (and being fought quite a bit by Transgendered pretty openly just in the last year), and the only thing that solves for the individual is feelings and side effects of being deceitful. The only way for us as a community to lift ourselves up is to not justify it away too easily, especially if we dream of progress on these issues. The key thing is to strive to find a better way every time (every generation, hell every decade).

The only way to temper the extreme version of this is to leave the decision to the individual and empower people to make their own personal decision. As others have said, there are many mitigating factors to someone outing themselves (work, family, etc), and by no means do I think the "it worked for me it can work for you arguments" are really helpful. While we have to own up to the way we choose to live our lives, by no means is it helpful to make someone feel as if they are doing less than what is right for them. For starters, some of the ways these things can be said I think are the inspiration for this thread. They can leave people feeling as if they are being looked down upon, and treated as inferior. I'd add to that, that making people as if they aren't particularly capable for making their own decisions undermines their self confidence, and actually lowers people's self confidence. Confidence only found from facing the way you live your life, and knowing your doing the best to find a better way each time.

In order to achieve the first part the person needs self confidence, which means that any time you try to take the general concept of the deceit, and THEN add VERY specific conditions to it, you are doing everyone a disservice.

[Beverley Sims]

Isha,
I do reply to most posts and dispense advice in a caring manner.
I am aware of some peoples frame of mind and again I pick my words.
There are many who have come and gone on this forum in the short time I have been here and I do wonder what they are doing now.
There is an eclectic mix of personalities all requiring different replies to the same problem.
I have been accused of all sorts of things here most of which I do not understand.
I try to be caring with my comments but they apparently miss the mark often, so I don't know.
Your post needs more reading and I will reply again when I have absorbed it thoroughly.