Rebirth

[Donna Joanne]

I have a very serious question for all my friends who have transitioned. It will soon be time to address my transition with my four adult children. They all do not live in the same state that we do now. When I come out I have considered giving them my "blessing" in telling people that their father has "passed away" therefore avoiding any future issues with explaining me as their "mother". I would then be "reborn" as their father's sister, or aunt. This would keep from putting them in the position of being the child of a transitioned woman. To me it is logical, because the "male" who was their father will die and be buried once I fully become myself.

Now for my two part question:
First, what do you think of this approach?
Second, has anyone else done this, and what were the results?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[arbon]

Let them deal with it however they need to, that's their deal and you don't get to control it. But I don't like the idea of suggesting its okay to say you are dead, that's ridicules, and its a lie -very immature if people really need to do that because they can't deal with the truth. Why should they be so ashamed and embarrassed of you?.

[Donna Joanne]

Arbon, it's not because they can't deal with the truth or be ashamed and embarrassed of me I'm considering this; but rather because of the narrow mindedness of society today. After all, so many like myself have delayed their transitions because of the repercussions to their loved ones, not because of what will happen to them. I personally have suffered enough pain because of my transsexualism, and want to protect them as much as possible.

After reading so many accounts of sisters and brothers being totally "cut out" of their children and grandchildren's lives I want to do everything I can to avoid that happening to me. And that would be devastating to me. I would rather be allowed to remain in their life as an 'aunt' than to be disowned as the 'male/father' I would no longer be and really never was.

I'm not trying to control it, but rather give them viable options that we all can live with.

[Kathryn Martin]

Let them deal with it however they need to, that's their deal and you don't get to control it. But I don't like the idea of suggesting its okay to say you are dead, that's ridicules, and its a lie -very immature if people really need to do that because they can't deal with the truth. Why should they be so ashamed and embarrassed of you?.

These are very wise words indeed. Donna, don't give them the option to lie about you. It pre-supposes that there is something wrong or the matter with you for being yourself.

Although, I must admit I once introduced myself as my sister to a colleague with whom I had worked in the past and who asked me if I was related to Mr. Martin. So I said yes and that I was his hotter sister. I even wrote a little poem about:

I spread my paper on the courtroom desk
He turned to me and spoke with care turned arabesk
inquiry so delicate he had to know
“Is he related to you, if so how?”


Before I knew I answered to his tone
“his hotter sister” was my answer quick
I smiled, he laughed, I blushed, he turned aside
At my so unexpected, quickened whit


It took him 30 seconds, to recall
Our common enterprise 12 years ago and all
He blushed, I smiled, remembering the kick


While it is a lot of fun to remember in hindsight not my finest hour....

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Donna your train of thought is not constructive in my opinion. Your fear is reasonable. I don't know your family or their situation, but giving your kids a script or an option for them to use to lie to people will not protect you from this fear.

In fact, it reduces you, it shows weakness and it in turn reduces them. Arbon and Kathryn are right. It will make what you are doing bad instead of good.

Here is a slice of experience. Your life will go on. The idea that you transitioned will become boring except for the daily knowledge that you are living an authentic life.
The authentic life you earn will be priceless to you. And hopefully to those that care about you . That's what transition is.

You are not their aunt.
The dramatic convention of death and rebirth might be attractive to you but your kids don't want a dead father and a new aunt. And if they do, let them tell you that!!! And accept it as best you can.

Plus in my experience, the information needs to sink in, throwing more info and ideas at them will not be helpful. How they feel day one will change a lot over time, and part of that change will be about how you handle things.

What you are suggesting (a long term lie) would become a burden not a blessing, both to you and your children. It would create an emptiness where there should be authenticity in all of your lives. Do not do it.

+++
Another thing I would suggest to everyone is that I believe its ok to tell everyone you've been unhappy. It's ok to mention that this is a medical issue and it has caused you much distress. But don't overdo it. (I made this mistake big time)

.... Nobody wants to hear that your whole life was a lie, or that you are dead and reborn, or that you've been secretly either lonely, confused or miserable everyday (even tho its true for me at least).. people interpret that as weakness.. people interpret that as you lying to them and that the relationship you've had was false...that's not a good feeling for them, especially if they are your kids

sorry to be so blunt, but I feel strongly about this..

[kimdl93]

First the disclaimer. I'm TG, not TS. My observations reflect that perspective.

I'm troubled with this idea. Your children, though grown, still need their parent. Your transition should not and need not deprive them of that through a metaphorical death. Yes, you will have changed, but to suggest that they lie and redefine you as someone else seems needlessly cruel to me. This isn't between them and society, it's between you and your children. Each of us will be in a grave, an urn, or broadcast to the winds soon enough.

[Angela Campbell]

I agree with Arbon. I told my family the best way i could, explaining the situation as a medical condition. I let them deal with it their own way. My daughter asked what she should call me and I told her she can call me anything she liked. I will always be her dad.

I am not ashamed of transitioning at all. I am proud to be a woman. I don't advertise that I transitioned but I won't lie about it either.

I have lost two of my 3 kids, hopefully they will accept me one day but I can't control that. Most of my family and friends and society accept me as I am.

[stefan37]

When I told my kids I was transitioning and in hormones. They both said they knew. I told them I will always be their father and they could always call me dad. I was and never will be their mother. My nieces and nephews asked what they should call me. I said whatever you feel comfortable with. Many call me uncle Stef. Those close to you that are accepting have a need to be comfortable in addressing you.

[Suzanne F]

I would not ask my children to lie. I told them me truth and it has home well with all three of them. I would not want to perpetuate the feeling of shame around being TS.
Suzanne

[Donna Joanne]

Suzanne and everyone else,
You are misunderstanding what I am saying. I'm not asking them to lie; I'm giving them the option of how they address me and introduce me to their friends and acquaintances. I will ask them how they want to see me. But when I transition and become female I will no longer be their father publicly, and we can dance around this issue all day, but they will no longer have a traditional male person to introduce as their "dad" to anyone.

But this whole conversation is for naught if they opt to disown me and never want contact again.

Thanks for all the constructive comments. I'm just trying to "prepare for the worst and pray for the best".

[arbon]

You asked what we thought of the approach you were considering - which was to give them your blessing to say you were dead. It sounded like thats what you were meaning to suggest to them to do (you even said so in your response to my first post).

I understand how difficult it all is. Transitioning is full of risks when it comes to our relationships. When you transition its not just about you, its about the people close to us as well. They get to go through their own transition as they come to terms with what is happening and watching you change. Its difficult because it does not always go the way we want, but its something they need to work out for themselves. The most important thing we can do is to be confident and sure in what we are doing and not feed the idea that we are wrong, sick, freakish for doing it.


Why not wait and see how it goes after you tell them before worrying to much about how they can refer to you? Its a conversation you will have many times with them and you will be able to work it out.

I don't have adult children but my daughter (14 now), wife, mother, brother, sister have all had to work that out as well. My daughter is in the most vulnerable position because of her age and being in school, but her approach is to refer to me as her Poppy and if she is pressed further she will tell them I am her dad and transgender. Not a big deal, at least to us.

[becky77]

Hi Donna

I kinda see where you are coming from but I can't help feel its a little disturbing.
We are who we are, history is cherished if not by you but your children. I can't see anyone feeling comfortable with that idea, especially as really its a lie and lies always come undone at some point.
The whole point of transition is to be true to yourself, not start a whole new persona to hide behind. Be proud of who you are and let your family make their own choices.

[Angela Campbell]

They will decide on how they address you, if they do at all, and how they will introduce you to others, again if they do at all. This isn't your choice really.
You need to work on the relationship between you and them and help them to get comfortable with the changes.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I understood what you were saying. I understand your fear.
I do not believe your idea will help anything at all.

Your kids do not want you to be dead (even existentially)
...they want to know they are loved and they want to know you are ok... if that's not the family dynamic then that's a different issue and nothing you do is going to change how they react.

More than anything you should put your absolute best foot forward..

Prepare for every possible reaction and be emotionally ready to ride out any storm as best you can...

If you wanted real feedback, you clearly got it.

[Dawn cd]

YOU are still alive. You're not dead. Only your gender has changed. Nor is your fatherhood dead, at least not to your children. So to suggest that their father has died is really messing with their minds and perceptions. There are better metaphors. Think of the chrysalis and butterfly: the outward form is changed but the essential self is still there.

[Annaliese]

Society never will deal with us if we keep hiding, we have to be in there face like the gay movement has done, I am not there yet but getting there.

[PretzelGirl]

If you give people an out, you minimize the possibilities. You comment about the close mindedness of society, I would rather look at it a different way. I assume that all will go perfectly well. Be prepared for things to go bad, but don't automatically give it power over your transition. If you shoot for the moon, you will get more than what you will get if you start handing it all over. Be you and embrace it!

On my side, I told my kids they can call me whatever they want as long as it is socially acceptable. My daughter was talking with me not sure what she wanted to do. She just visited last week and we were trading pictures through email. I got to see her contact list while doing it and I was listed as Sue (Mom) Leighton. Open your arms and let them work through it!

[DebbieL]

I have a very serious question for all my friends who have transitioned. It will soon be time to address my transition with my four adult children. They all do not live in the same state that we do now. When I come out I have considered giving them my "blessing" in telling people that their father has "passed away" therefore avoiding any future issues with explaining me as their "mother".

Unless their actual mother is actually and already dead, and nobody knows it, you might cause just as much confusion with this new deception.

I explained it to friends and family the same way, I was ALWAYS "Debbie", she didn't have a name, people barely knew she existed. However, I show them my fingers, pointing to my longer index finger, explaining that women usually have index fingers that are longer than their ring fingers. It's especially pronounced on my left hand. Only rarely do I meet someone who is reverse. I then point out that my brain was different as well. So I was always really a girl, pretending to be a boy, so that the other boys wouldn't beat me up, take my toys, and worse. Rex was CREATED to SURVIVE. At the most fundamental level every human being creates an identity to survive in a dangerous world. By being Donna, you are finally being truly authentic. To thine own self be true.


I would then be "reborn" as their father's sister, or aunt. This would keep from putting them in the position of being the child of a transitioned woman. To me it is logical, because the "male" who was their father will die and be buried once I fully become myself.

You don't have to fabricate your death to take on a role as an aunt.

My daughter calls me "Mom Debbie", and my grandchildren call me "Gamma Debbie".
They also have "Mom Leslie" and "Gamma Leslie".

The kids grew up with "Dad Jerry" and "Dad Rex" - Jerry being their stepdad, but in so many ways, being the father I hoped he could be for my kids.

Keep in mind that this is the 21st century. It's not as unusual to have two moms, or a mom who used to be dad, or even a dad who used to be mom.

If you want to be "Auntie Donna", then they don't need to think that you "died".
You do need to be careful about any perception of you declaring yourself "dead" - especially before your legal name change.
You can say honestly "that person no longer exists" because his name was changed to Donna.
Declaring yourself dead or having other say you are dead could be construed as fraud, especially if "Aunt Donna" needs a loan, a job, or a credit card.

I was outed by my ex-wife about 2 years after the divorce. My son was being defiant, so Leslie told him I wore dresses. She was hoping he would hate me. When he didn't believe her, she wanted me to send her pictures, but I was worried that they would be used against me in court. Instead I talked to him on the phone (I was 2200 miles away on a long term contract), told him it was true, that kind of like Beauty and the Beast, I was a girl inside but had to look and act like a boy on the outside, like the beast, but that I still loved him. By the titme he got off the phone, he was proud of his mom/dad, but he also promised to hug his step-dad, tell him what he would have told me, and give him a kiss, because I couldn't be there to hold him anymore.

He told my daughter, who though that was the coolest thing on earth. She would get on the phone with me and talk to me like I was one of her little girl friends. There were even times when she would talk about boys with me. She even called me when her first boyfriend broke up and started dating her best friend because she wouldn't do PDAs with him. She has always thought of me as "Mom Debbie", even when she called me "Dad Rex". She even sends me mothers day cards.

[LeaP]

The hardest thing of all for me in transitioning isn't worrying about work, or going to the store, or to the doctor, or surgeries. It's trying to live authentically in the one place that actually matters - at home and with family. That's where I stumble again and again and again. In the end, the reason is fear of loss, exactly what you are describing. To accept the identity-compromised solution you suggest would be to lose everything I've been struggling for.

No-one is misunderstanding here, Donna. What you suggest is such a fundamental self-negation it's a wonder you don't see it.

[Donna Joanne]

No, some of you still don't get what I'm saying. The "my father has passed away" is to explain why they don't have a MALE presenting father figure in their life, not to act like I'm personally dead. And the "Aunt Donna" was to explain me now as myself. I'm trying to make it easier for them to have me around their friends and neighbors who have never met their father. And for my oldest two, yes their mother has passed away. These are all adult children who don't live anywhere near me.

Yes I want them to accept me, but at the same time I don't want them to be put through any more stress than needed because of my transition.

Thanks again for your input and opinions.

[becky77]

I get what you are saying Donna, it's just I don't agree with it. It's a little weird, deluded and an out and out lie. I think it's the wrong approach and thats my opinion which you asked for.

If your kids want to call you something else it has to be on their terms and their comfort level, telling them this concocted story might just alienate them.
Try imagine if it was your Father telling you this, you have to keep in the forefront of your mind that you are their father to them, regardless of what happens going forward.
I believe they will already have more than enough to take in.

Best of luck with your family.

[Aprilrain]

It's just rude for you to continually claim that we "don't get it" ! You have no idea what I or anyone else "gets". To be frank, this idea that you have that you can control the outcome by fabricating an imaginary family member for your children to introduce to strangers is just proposturous. IF! (And it's a BIG if) your children choose to have anything to do with you after you tell them your transitioning, it will be up to them to decide how they will introduce you to strangers. That being said, focusing on how your grown children, who live in other states, will introduce you to strangers is a total waste of energy and brain power, your worrying about Z when you're still on step A!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Do you really think people walk around looking at other people and think "hmmm I wonder why there is no male figure presenting in Bill's life???"
we are broken records here...we are trying to prevent an obvious mistake....

We do see what you are saying..stop saying that...we universally are saying its a bad idea...I believe I speak for the group
i'm glad you are responding and reading the posts, but you are just skipping over what people are saying with the same answer.

you do not control this situation.. you are not a hero that needs to save your kids from embarrassment...you are not giving them a positive message...
nobody around them really cares... and frankly have you even considered that if they "feel bad" that they'd prefer to vent to their friends about their dad...they can run their own lives..they are grown up..
have you considered there is a decent chance they respond very bitterly to any advice you give them after this bombshell

...how bout just giving them your blessing to have their own feelings about this?

and btw... its simply not ok to have someone lie about "my dad or mom passed away".....it is not a white lie..
after my mom died, her death has come up in a number of conversations...I've learned that other people that lost their dad or mom are drawn in by this information and find comfort in talking to others...we share a terrible bond..
and folks that have two parents? they avoid the topic like plague and I don't want to talk to them about my mom anyway....
anyway, those moments with other bereaved people are usually pretty powerful...hugs, tears, deep connections...have you had them??
Imagine your adult child bringing up your passing..."oh i'm soooo sorry, when?? how?? ....my dad died and I still think about it......"
talk about creating discomfort...

++++
to april's point...
one of the biggest mistakes many of us tend to make is that we worry about Z when we are at point A B or C .... that is so true!!!

[I Am Paula]

This just reminds me so much of the old mentality about the pregnant daughter. Send her out of state, and when she gives birth we'll all say that fifty seven year old grandma had a miraculous pregnancy, and birth! Oh yeah, they'll all believe that!
Sorry, building a web of lies to cover up something that we should not be embarrassed about seems so pointless.