Well, I had a good run... :cry:

[Eringirl]

Good morning ladies (or evening for my friends down under!)

First, apologies as I have not been around here for the past 5 days or so, as I was not in a frame of mind to positively contribute. I also needed some time to gather my own thoughts so that I could at least attempt to post something articulate. I will try not to whine or ramble on....

So here's the deal. My wife totally blew me up last Saturday. Moved out of our bedroom stating that if I was going to wear women's underwear, she was not going to share our bed. Also told me that if dressing as a woman made me calm, relaxed and happy, that I would have to leave. When I asked her if she enjoyed the "happy" me versus the "tired and grumpy me" she said it was great, just do it without wearing women's clothes, or make up, or shaving my legs etc...you get the idea. She doesn't understand how simply wearing women's clothing etc can make that happen. "Just do it" (apologies to Nike...) without the clothes etc. How hard can that be?

She supports me continuing to see a therapist, but when I asked if she would like to go, the message I got back was Nope, I am fine, I'm not the one broken. Fix it. This from someone wearing men's football T-shirts and jeans, spending Sunday afternoons and evenings watching NFL... Meow...Sorry...

So needless to say, I was a mess, and still am a bit. Felt/feel like a failure as a man, as a woman, felt like I let everyone here down, it was nasty, nasty nasty. I don't think I have ever played so much Carol King in my life...just about wore out the enamel on the piano keys! (But I digress...).

So, from minor acceptance to complete disapproval. Subject is closed. She is now happy as a lark, chatty and smiling all the time. I know that as Erin and I much more "girlie" than her...She rarely wears make up, I wear more jewellery as a male than she does, her hair is as short or shorter than mine as a male, and the last time she wore a dress was probably 2 years ago, to a friends wedding. Always pants. And more Cotton than the state of Georgia. As Erin I have more silky clothes than her, and I am in much better shape. My guess is that maybe she felt threatened as a female and chose "fight" over "flight"?

So there you have it. I am trying to get into see my therapist, but the earliest time is next week.

I am hoping to get back to my "A game" so that I can get back to contributing here, but bear with me as I recover for this "full on frontal assault".

Erin

[Roberta Young]

Erin, Remember You have friends here that listen and care for You and Your problems. Hang tough, give it time, take care of Yourself. Hugs Roberta

[Jenniferathome]

So Erin, what happened? Something "happened" to cause her to gt pissed off. Be objective. Did you cross a boundary? You need to look from the outside and really critique the relationship.

Without knowing the breaking point you can't address this. Certainly the "fix it" request is misinformed. Dig deep. Find the source. Good luck

[Tina B.]

Wish I had more to offer than, sorry to hear she is taking it so hard, hope it gets better for you and that she will realize, in this case, it is the clothes that makes the man. I know without dressing, I'm not a person I even like.

[Annaliese]

You can't fix what not broke, the therapist will or should help you understand this side of you, that is why your wife must go with, you so she can learn that there is nothing wrong with you, she might find out something about her self, and that is the problem. You can't stop being you, before I started to be more me not just at home, but at work, there was time I was just mean. My boss has noticed everyone has notice. No one should have to be who their not.

[mechamoose]

I'm sorry, hon.

Keep in mind that you and she are approaching this from two *entirely* different perspectives.

YOU are trying to claim/adjust to part of your personality.

SHE is seeing that somehow you are changing, and doesn't like the change.

As much pain and flack is it may cause to stick to your guns and be YOU, pretending NOT to be you will end up costing more.

<3

- MM

[Bria]

Erin, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife as you try to work though this.

Hugs, Bria

[Di]

I hope your wife will go to your therapist with you.:hugs:
Maybe join here to talk to other GGs and understand this is not a choice. But a part of you.


BUT this part of your post kinda worrys me.

I know that as Erin and I much more "girlie" than her...She rarely wears make up, I wear more jewellery as a male than she does, her hair is as short or shorter than mine as a male, and the last time she wore a dress was probably 2 years ago, to a friends wedding. Always pants. And more Cotton than the state of Georgia. As Erin I have more silky clothes than her, and I am in much better shape. My guess is that maybe she felt threatened as a female and chose "fight"

I would hope you support and love your wife just the way she is....... just like you want to be loved and supported for yourself.
I worry from your words maybe you made her feel made her feel less than... since you think you are more girlie than your wife.? Just you saying that is unreal....just wow.

[Katey888]

Poor Erin... :hugs:

I think MM's observation earlier is a good one... it does sound that your wife wants to or does think that this is some sort of optional pastime for you and not a fundamental part of your persona. I don't think you'd be well advised to go challenging any of her views right now as she seems to be sending 'trench warfare' signals to me... I can't imagine how hard it must be for you but you mustn't think or feel that you're a failure over this - it isn't about failure, it's just about a part - a very key part - of who you are.

I think deep breaths and a period of stability are called for... let this settle down for a good period of time (weeks...) until the present emotion has run out - then take stock and see how she feels. I think you also have to be prepared that this might well be her last stand position, or very close to her ultimatum.... that's people, I'm afraid...

And as always: Keep Calm & Carry On... :) :hugs:

Katey x

[Kate Simmons]

Your friends are here for you Erin, regardless of presentation and that is the bottom line. :hugs::)

[Tina_gm]

Take a breath, a pause, and just slow everything down. While there may or may not have been a line or boundary that was actually crossed, I wonder if sometimes if we continually ride that line, that can become an issue. At times I think our wives need us to be the man they married voluntarily, without feeling like they are pressuring us to be the man they married.

I would let the dust settle, and then try to talk to her and see where it is or what it is that is bothering her the most. One thing that definitely stands out is the underwear, as she mentioned it. While trivial to many of us, not something which is seen, the fact that you are wearing women's underwear on a regular basis I am assuming means a lot to her. Just because some wives are ok with it doesn't mean all will or should be. To some, while not necessarily a boundary, it signifies to them perhaps a way of CDing 24/7. Not saying you should give it up entirely (womens underwear) but it sounds like that is something that needs discussion. Is women's underwear truly that important to you? is it worth the marriage? It may be trivial to us, to many, but just as we are all unique and different, so are our GG S/O's and some will have a comfort for things that others won't, and it may not always be uniform. My wife does not mind me being shaved.... Doesn't mind the feel of my shaved legs. Doesn't want to see me dressed. Does that make any sense? Not to me, but I don't put one on the other, or even try to make sense of it. If she was ok with dressing in front of her but not ok with shaving, I would dress in her presence and stop shaving. Maybe the current boundaries or the way you guys are approaching CDing needs to change a bit. That's ok too.

[Wildaboutheels]

As with a great many Relationship "issues" posted at this Forum, if not most, the "answer" is pretty clear and obvious and can be found amongst YOUR postings. In your case I did not even need to look beyond your very first one. Sounds like your wife has simply thrown in the towel.

For good reason?

[mechamoose]

Katey:

I thought it was
And as always: Keep Calm & Carry A Matching Purse...

}:P

(I feel bratty today.. [sort of] sorry)

- MM

[hope springs]

Anyway, Erin.. Sounds like you have been served an ultimatum. Only you can decide if living without your other self is worth your marriage. I dont know which i would choose if my wife forced me to stop. But people change, and sometimes spouses cant handle your new identity. Im spiteful, so if delivered that choice in such an abrupt manner, id pack my bags. But please try to get her to talk. There has to be some underlying issues for her to lay down the law. Good luck, big hugs

[Princess Grandpa]

Hug

I'm really sorry Erin! I can only imagine how badly you feel right now. Do you know how you're going to proceed from here? I'm going to suggest you immediately consult with an attorney. If she moved out of your room, if she's emotionally done, things could be moving ahead much quicker than you know. I'm not suggesting you put any wheels in motion just don't be caught unprepared.

If you need an ear feel free to pm me. Imot super bright but I'm a good listener. You will be in my thoughts. I will be watching for updates. I'm hoping for the best.

Hug
Rita

[Jennifer-GWN]

I know I'm new here but know that you have a local shoulder if you need it. Life if full of ups and downs. They are often out of our direct control. Just have had roll with the punches often they work themselves out.

cheers...
Jennifer

[samantha rogers]

Hey, Erin, Im sorry, really sorry for what you are going through. I know there really isnt much anyone can say or do to help, since only you really know your wife. But, no therapist or counselor can fix you, since there is nothing wrong. The only thing that I know of that a therapist can do is help you learn to be comfortable and happy living your life on your terms with who you are. A good counselor can help a couple work throught issues but if she has rejected that then you are on your own. My wife was the same, refusing to see the value in counseling that way. But with a lot of work, for now, we are coping. Still, everyone is different. Maybe your wife will change, but maybe not. I hope she does, and I hope you can help her to adapt and understand. Regardless, you are in my thoughts. None of this is easy, but you are not alone, honey. All the best.
Hugs

[Rhonda Jean]

Sounds all too familiar, Erin. Hope however it plays out that you're in a better place. I never got an ultimatum. I just got a divorce. I would have done anything to prevent that, including giving it all up. I was WAY out there. Looking back I can see that I made a lot of mistakes and pushed too far. I looks quite different from 7 years down the road. Hope y'all work it out.

[JamieG]

Erin, know that we are here to support you. My wife and I have had some nasty spats over the CDing, so I have some sense of what you are feeling now. However, I have to agree with Di:



I would hope you support and love your wife just the way she is....... just like you want to be loved and supported for yourself.
You might do that...but DID your comments or actions made her feel less than?

Maybe your comments are just retaliation against what you see as her rejection of you, but if you truly feel the way, that could be part of the problem. Try to see things from your wife's perspective, and when things have settled down a bit, open up a conversation. Perhaps you entered the Pink Fog, or did you somehow hint that you didn't think she was feminine enough? Are you being a good husband otherwise? I suggest you try to find if there's a way for you to CD without putting it in her face.

[CherylFlint]

Wow! Your wife ought to have a long talk with my wife. Maybe she'll learn the facts of life.
Way, way overboard. Look, no amount of therapy is going to change the fact the you're a CD, however, you can still be a CD without actually "dressing".
It's a state of mind. Some of us are CD's 24-7, while others are CD's only when they dress.
It's complicated, but your wife over-reacted. You're not like mean or you don't hit her.
Seems to me she's the one with the problem.
I'd have her read some of the SO's write about their CD boyfriends and husbands.
My wife is supportive yet still thinks I'll "out grow" being a CD someday.
Good luck.
ps, I'm like you. I'm more girly than my wife. I wear slips, my wife doesn't even own one. I wear garter belts and ff stockings, my wife wears pantyhose sometimes.
my wife is the boss, I'm the maid. That's just the way it is.

[Beverley Sims]

Erin,
I see it as a power play, a way of controlling you.
It is a very unhappy situation that you are in.
Talking to the therapist may help but somehow I think you have to make yourself more interesting as a girl.
In order to get back to the status quo I see a lot of small steps over a long time.
I really have nothing concrete to offer.

[Jean 103]

sorry to hear your situation . I have been there. in. my case we separated a couple. months ago. it sounds like you are at a cross road.. for you me both roads ended in the same place or maybe it's that I could not stay on the one she wanted.I hope it works out for you . ♡ jean

[Rachael Leigh]

Erin sweetie I've got similar issues going on hon and I feel for you, if you need a friend feel free to send a PM.
Hang in there

[Shelly Preston]

I agree with Di you really should get her to go with you to the therapist.

It may help her understand that you did not choose to be a CD its a part of your personality. This may go some way to setting boundaries that you can both live with.

I can hear the anger in your words because of the ultimatum she has given you. It may not work out but you owe to yourself and her to at least try.

I wish you both the best of luck in finding a resolution.

[lexivanderpump]

Erin,
Why do you need to see a therapist? There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with you girlfriend. I wish you the best hun.

Love,
Lexi V.

[charlenesomeone]

Erin,
So sorry. Seems maybe accepting was more like tolerating.
Good Luck whatever you decide.
Hugs

[Chari]

Great advice from all previous posts Erin! Will only add YOU must decide & live whatever it takes to be comfortable in YOUR life. Knowing through experience, no matter where you are on the gender scale, no matter what the therapy - CDing is now and will always be a part of you! Wishing you a positive resolve.

[Yoshisaur]

That's kinda sad to hear Erin, but remember if you need people to talk to a support you we're here for you -hugs Kira :)

[Cheyenne Skye]

Sounds a lot like what happened to me. Except my wife was going to therapy with me. All within a few days she cancelled all future therapy appointments and moved into the spare bedroom. But we talked and both came to the realization that it was over and started discussing the terms of the separation. Three weeks later she served me with a restraining order (based entirely on her twisted perception of things) and I was forced to move out. I was completely blind sided by it. I appealed the order and won. I got back in the house five months later. By then she had failed to pay the mortgage, home equity loan or the HOA dues even once. And because I couldn't be present when she moved out (terms of the order and subsequent appeal), she made off with half of my (women's) clothes and about an eighth of my Compact Disc collection that I've had for over twenty years (I only knew her for 16). Point is, she went from apparently accepting for a long time to spiteful and vindictive. I just want to caution you to watch your back.

[LeslieSD]

I feel for you. I have been in similar situation, and haven't completely solved my situation yet. But I have gotten to a semi-equilibrium. Some call it DADT.

So basically, let's start with a non-working situation. You want something called A, and she wants none of A. A could be crossdress, or golf, or traveling, whatever things that caused problem. There are only a couple of solutions: (1) you change, (2) she changes, (3) both of you change somewhat. Which way it goes depends on a few factors, a) if the issue is intrinsic, and b) for non-intrinsic issues, if the party is willing to make the change.

This issue is usually that most women assume CDing is a choice (there are a few threads on this earlier), so they apply pressure (such as ultimatum) trying to get the change scale going their way. This has been the built-in way of negotiation for some people. The first approach to solution here is to make the point clear that CDing is intrinsic (just like being gay). You may be surprised that many women did not know that. Once you get the basic assumptions agreed on, the discussion may become a bit easier.

This does not mean you can always get her to go your way. I now fell that for some women, not wanting CDing in their husband may be intrinsic too (or close to intrinsic), as their emotional stimulation is tied to physical appearance. Not wanting CDing in their husband may be in some way similar to that a heterosexual man would not want to date a man. In some way such a women marrying a CDer is a sexually incompatible situation (which usually got blamed on the deception of the CDing party. This itself is a long topic). If the emotional connection is strong, they may both compromise, which leads to DADT situation. If not, then it probably leads to dissolution of the marriage.

[ReineD]

I'm sorry you're going through this, but I have a few comments:



I know that as Erin and I much more "girlie" than her...She rarely wears make up, I wear more jewellery as a male than she does, her hair is as short or shorter than mine as a male, and the last time she wore a dress was probably 2 years ago, to a friends wedding. Always pants. And more Cotton than the state of Georgia. As Erin I have more silky clothes than her, and I am in much better shape.

Why are you comparing yourself to your wife? There are many different ways that women choose to present depending on their personalities, and all of them are valid. "Girlie" is just one way to do it. When I walk around my local mall, I'd say that only a small percentage of women choose to adopt what I consider is a girlie style.



My guess is that maybe she felt threatened as a female and chose "fight" over "flight"?

My guess is that she does not like the girlie style on her husband. And I wonder if the "less than"/"better than" attitudes I am picking up in your first quote are showing through even though you do not say these things to your wife.

I remember years ago, I read an interesting post from a GG who was a member here for a short time. I've no idea how she looked or how she presented in her day-to-day life, but she said that she had never chosen to become friends with girls who were "girlie-girls". I immediately understood what she meant. When I was younger I did know some girls who seemed to really be into makeup, clothes, hairstyles, polished nails, etc., but I had nothing in common with them. I liked friends who could ski, who were into concerts, art, photography, among other activities. I might have shopped for clothing with a girlfriend if I needed something special like a prom dress but other than that yearly occurrence, grooming activities were not central to my life. By this I mean that if I wanted to wear makeup, I'd spend the few minutes it took to put it on, and then I'd forget about it, not unlike having breakfast. Anyway, this GG member said that if she was not choosing to hang out with friends whose priorities were clothing, hairdos, makeup, and nails, then why would she enjoy spending time with a husband who was into this?

I honestly don't think it has anything to do with your wife feeling threatened.

I don't know what to suggest other than to try to put your focus on getting in touch with your femininity without making clothes, hair, nails, jewelry, makeup, and clothing central to the process. You can wear these things, but they are just tools, not the main event?

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Erin, It just breaks my heart to read a story like this I wish I could tell you what you want to hear,
Please keep us advised as you know that you have thousands of friends here for you.:hugs:

[Tracii G]

Seems like she wants her way and you can't have yours. A power play indeed and she want to control you.
I would tell her why don't you leave?
If she won't go to the therapist with you it throws up a red flag to me.
1. She doesn't love you or care about you.
2.Your happiness means nothing to her.
3.She is blaming you for her shortcomings.
I guess I'm a bit jaded by women having been used and abused mentally I will not put up with their BS anymore.

[Melissa_Rose]

I had a similar experience.. but currently a happier resolution.
My wife was initially supportive. Took me shopping
Encouraged dressing at home but not out. I thought we were fine.
We got into an argument one day and she said something about my dressing. She said she felt as if I pushed it too far too fast and it was too much ( never mind at this point she was taking me shopping at her own suggestion).. I let the comments go then brought it up a few weeks later. Turns out she was ok with some things not other aspects. Our talks continued and I ended up moving out for 6 months. We talked often about our issues and dresing. Over time she came to understand more about me and realized this is something I have been doing since childhood. I refused to move back in until I felt totally accepted. And while she still has more to come to terms with, she is much more open and accepting to why this is a need for me.
Now we are talking about full dressing vacations, I get my nails done with hers in a salon. We are back to making shopping trips and I believe she is much happier. More importantly, we talk about things and express our feelings good and bad to each other.
Hopefully you can use this as an opportunity to talk and discuss things with your SO.

cdn

[jayme357]

"Subject is closed. She is now happy as a lark, chatty and smiling all the time".

You can rationalize all you want. She has made a decision and it is not likely to change. She has decided without reservation that life with a CD is not for her. Accept it.

Your task is to dig deep and find a way to protect yourself. Be comfortable with who you are and do not look back but focus on your future. This is a lot easier said than done, but your survival must be your top priority.

Good luck. You have a lot of friends here that will help you in every possible way.

[suchacutie]

One has to wonder how these abrupt changes occur. Is there some confidente involved? web search information? something you changed?
You might be well served knowing the source of the change in order to anticipate the next step from her. Seeing a lawyer could also be prudent. Sorry if this sounds negative, but it seems time for you to look for some security.

[Stephanie47]

Reine made some comments at #31 before I could. As is my custom I went back and read some of your comments and posts. You definitely need to not compare yourself to your wife. Wives come in all shapes and sizes that are subject to change. Your hair is longer. So what! I see may really sexy women with short hair. She has gained weight. Yep, everyone seems to be subject to that these days. Been to the mall? Been to the local bar. You have a lot more sexy clothes than her. She hasn't worn a dress in two years. A wedding it was? It sounds like my wife. She has a BMI over 30. She wears a touch of makeup, lip gloss and that's all! She cannot wear heels anymore because of a foot operation, fused toe. Yep, forty years ago I could carry her up four flights of stairs to our walk up apartment. She was 115 =/- pounds. She was a ten. She still is a ten in my book.

I look in the mirror and my wavy blond hair is gone. The hair that remains is grey. I have put on some pounds. Yes, I went from 175 military weight to 215 and now down to 190. I've lost an inch in height. My back is a wreck. I have peripheral and autonomic neiropathy that hurts like hell sometimes. War wounds are killing me.

Neither she nor I have dumped each other. There must be something else happening in your life beside her looks.

Yes, I now have 107 dresses and over 400 slips. I have more bra, girdles (she has none), and panties than she has. Yes, I present myself as the man she married, but, with the signs of aging. Decades ago she told me cross dressing was not her cup of tea. She loves tea! So, I have long hair when I wear a wig. I dress up when she is not home. Right now? I wearing a black tee shirt. Gym shorts. No socks. I haven't shaved in three days. I need a hair cut. I actually feel comfortable sitting here banging away on the keyboard.

Over the years I've read too much crap on this board that the wife is suppose to bend to the husband's cross dressing desires. It is shoved in her face! Take it or leave it! I've always have respected my wife's views. Yes, it is DADT. And, that includes the visual trappings of cross dressing.

I suspect there is a second side to the issues in your marriage. You definitely have stated how much "girlie" you are than she. Yes, I suggest marital therapy for both of you, and, individual therapy for both of you. Of course, you'll relish the thoughts the therapist will tell your wife that you are who you are. But, will there be an accommodation for who you wife is? I suspect from your post that is not on your agenda.

[Eringirl]

First off, thanks so much to all of you for taking the time to comment. I cannot begin to express how much that means to me. Thanks for the support and pearls of wisdom. And thanks for asking the tough questions. Trust me, I have, and still am, asking all of those questions of myself and of the situation, but good to know that they are the right questions to ask.

As for meeting with my therapist, that is for me, to work through this and get myself on an even keel, so to speak. I know that I don't do well with ultimatums. I have a reputation for not dealing with threats or ultimatums. You better be ready to do what you say if you do give one. So that is a bit of my personality that probably gets in the way sometimes. For now I am letting things sit. It is still pretty raw, so I think it needs to heal over a bit. For me, I need to take a breath. If I decide to open this up again, I need to do so from a position of strength, not mental frailty. And I honestly don't know what I am going to do at this time. My wife has made it very clear that she will not participate in therapy. Case closed on that for now.

Ya, I know women come in all shapes and sizes, and all are beautiful in their own way. I get that. The "girlie" comment was more around what my wife doesn't deal with. She's a professional and in her mind she doesn't think that anyone would take her seriously if she wore make up, dresses, etc, etc. I, on the other hand, work and interact with women everyday who wear makeup, hair and nails done, wearing dresses and skirts, killer shoes etc. They are lawyers, engineers, CEOs etc and are very bright...I mean scary smart. So, we come at this from two different points of view. My wife thinks that she would be perceived as a "bimbo", trying to compensate for lack of "smarts". Which is not the case. My wife is one of the brightest people I know. She can hold her own with anyone. But that is the way she was brought up. Her mom is the same way. So she has a hard time with that.

I am not trying to be defensive, so please don't take offence. I value all of our comments and thoughts. Just as everyone has their own world, circumstances and thoughts, so do I, right or wrong. I am just glad there is a place for us to share them and have open discussions. This place is awesome !!

So, enough ramblings for now. I am hoping to get back to clarity of thought as I am working through a bit of stormy conditions in my fury little brain, so bear with me. I will keep posting updates, and you can PM me if you like. Happy to correspond.

Thanks again to all !!! :hugs:

Erin

[Sharon B.]

Been down that road once before, I feel for you. Hope you and the spouse can even ground to stand on.

[Marcelle]

Hi Erin,

Firstly sweetie, I am so sorry this has happened. To be honest those of us who are open with our wives and they are supporting are all just one step away from complete reversal should things go awry. I am not sure what happened to change her mind so abruptly but is quite obvious she is very upset and you are now in turmoil.

It is possible that she just got to a saturation point and her knee jerk reaction was to stop accepting everything. Give her some space, take it easy on dressing for awhile, see your therapist and then begin the road to communication. I would not recommend trying to get her to talk right now as she is probably still very confused and in turmoil herself . . . breathing space is a good thing. However, we all know how hard it is to bottle this thing we do and it will seep out in other ways should you just stop complete (frustration, anger, hate all come to mind). Let's see what your therapist says and ask her/him the best way forward in dealing with this. I do believe you are going to have to come to some sort of agreement in the end and hopefully common ground can be found.

Again sweetie, sorry to hear this . . . please don't hesitate to reach out should you need a sounding board.

Hugs

Isha

[Sissyboy2]

Ask her what she wants to get out of therapy, because therapy isn't meant to change people it's to accept of yourself.

[Alice Torn]

If she is going to be this controlling, and giving you ultimatums, and will not go with you to therapy, and it all has to be her way, no compromise, and she refuses to see she has issues, too, it may be time to have a long talk. I f she continues to attack you, it may be best to leave the toxic situation.

[bobbimo]

Its time to point out how disappointed you are in her MALE attire and MALE habits of watching NFL etc, Short hair to boot.
If she want to be alpha male then there is no room for 2 alpha males, and you will to take the feminine roll to balance out the house.
Good luck and keep those panties waving high
Bobbi

[Tina_gm]

Does anyone remember the game spill the beans, or don't spill the beans?..... It can handle 10 or 20 or whatever, and then one more little bean and over it goes. It could be rather than some big thing you did or didn't do, it was something trivial to you, something said, or implied. Some little action, comment, reaction.

My wife has told me in the past that CDing is easier to handle for her when there is not a lot else going on in our lives. Stressful things that is. She called it the full plate. Whether or not this is the case with other GG's?? but it is with my wife. So, I know that when we are in times of stress, I am careful not to get into a discussion, unless she brings it up, which I usually allow her to do anyway, but occasionally I may say something off handed that may or may not start a convo. When those stressful days or times are occurring, I try extra hard to steer clear of anything that is CD related.

We CD's often have a tendency to ride the line of whatever limits or agreements we make with our S/O's. I think that that in itself can be a stress for them at times, because we are always right there on the line, and they are waiting for us to either attempt to move the line, or step over it. I sometimes remind myself to not ride the lines. Not that I am always not up to them, but I do try to voluntarily pull back every now and again, and especially during the stressful times.

One last thing, I would suggest not taking Bobbinos advice here. I believe that while technically it may be fair, please please do not attempt this. I would put up hard cash that doing something like that will come back real hard on you. If that is the way she has typically been, that is who you accepted and married. Don't go rocking the boat on this. Her lack of feminine attire is not a reason to dress in of itself, there is no justification by how SHE dresses.
Best wishes.

[Teresa]

Erin,
I guess your blow up is something most of us dread ! It takes possibly years to make head way and get to a workable situation and for some reason it all goes wrong !
Your wife says she doesn't need therapy, she's not the one that needs fixing, but something has snapped and perhaps she does need a session to sort things through !
I found myself in the same boat, my wife refused to attend therapy with me ! In the back of mind I can't help thinking perhaps they're worried they might be told something they choose not to hear !

I'm glad to say my wife still dresses feminine, If she started to go frumpy on me I would ask if it was reaction to my dressing and try and persuade her that I'm not competeing with her !
I really hope you can get it together again and pick up where you left off so you can get you life back in order.

[Julie Denier]

So sorry for this turn of events. Dressing is not a subject for debate in my marriage either, which is why I do it secretly. Hate that it has to be this way, but, oh, well ...

[Lidea]

I am afraid this post will put me on the naughty chair, but really.... do you guys hear yourselves???


Will only add YOU must decide & live whatever it takes to be comfortable in YOUR life.
Now that is selfish, isn't it. As one of my favourites (Emi) always says, you are foremost husband, and then crossdresser. I realise it is about compromises, but to say... whatever it takes...... ouch





This does not mean you can always get her to go your way. I now fell that for some women, not wanting CDing in their husband may be intrinsic too (or close to intrinsic), as their emotional stimulation is tied to physical appearance. Not wanting CDing in their husband may be in some way similar to that a heterosexual man would not want to date a man. .

I can agree to this. Why are some of you just too blind to see this???




Seems like she wants her way and you can't have yours. A power play indeed and she want to control you.
I would tell her why don't you leave?
If she won't go to the therapist with you it throws up a red flag to me.
1. She doesn't love you or care about you.
2.Your happiness means nothing to her.
3.She is blaming you for her shortcomings.
.

Well, who married who??? He married her and knew what he gets, she married him, not knowing everything... unless they were open about it....
I went with my husband to therapy, but going to therapy as an unsupportive wife, trying to cling to the idea of the man she married... well it ends up feeling bullied by the "CD-therapist" team... so that is why I won't go to therapy again.



There must be something else happening in your life beside her looks..........

Over the years I've read too much crap on this board that the wife is suppose to bend to the husband's cross dressing desires. It is shoved in her face! Take it or leave it! I've always have respected my wife's views. Yes, it is DADT. And, that includes the visual trappings of cross dressing.

I suspect there is a second side to the issues in your marriage. You definitely have stated how much "girlie" you are than she. Yes, I suggest marital therapy for both of you, and, individual therapy for both of you. Of course, you'll relish the thoughts the therapist will tell your wife that you are who you are. But, will there be an accommodation for who you wife is? I suspect from your post that is not on your agenda.

Hats of to you.... at least not all of you are so selfish.




Its time to point out how disappointed you are in her MALE attire and MALE habits of watching NFL etc, Short hair to boot.
If she want to be alpha male then there is no room for 2 alpha males, and you will to take the feminine roll to balance out the house.
Good luck and keep those panties waving high
Bobbi

Oh my goodness!!!! Are you serious, or are you just being sarcastic?
What a foolish comment...
So if my husband gets too girly, then I have to put on some male attire to balance out the house ????

I experienced this first hand... if I don't go all girly, my husband feels that I don't make use of my oppertunity as a gg, and it makes him want to do that instead.
When I do go all girly, my husband gets 'jealous' and wants to do it even more...
Your urges for dressing can not be blamed on your wife's dressing and habits.




I just got a divorce. I would have done anything to prevent that, including giving it all up. I was WAY out there. Looking back I can see that I made a lot of mistakes , pushed too far

Why can you not see this earlier, with the early warning signs... read Gendermutt again.... always living on the line, and then very upset and hurt when you fall off that line....





We CD's often have a tendency to ride the line of whatever limits or agreements we make with our S/O's. I think that that in itself can be a stress for them at times, because we are always right there on the line, and they are waiting for us to either attempt to move the line, or step over it. I sometimes remind myself to not ride the lines. Not that I am always not up to them, but I do try to voluntarily pull back every now and again, and especially during the stressful times.

One last thing, I would suggest not taking Bobbinos advice here. I believe that while technically it may be fair, please please do not attempt this. I would put up hard cash that doing something like that will come back real hard on you. If that is the way she has typically been, that is who you accepted and married. Don't go rocking the boat on this. Her lack of feminine attire is not a reason to dress in of itself, there is no justification by how SHE dresses.
Best wishes.

Thank you for speaking some sense here. Another husband that actually gets it. As WAH and wise Jennifer said.... be objective, what did you do to upset her?

I know us GG’s can sometimes make it hard for you men, but neither did we choose it. If we wanted to be with a women, we would have married a woman....
So please, be true to yourself and be the man that you said you would be when you married a girl.
Thank you for the men (like mine too) who actually get it and who try to put their wives and families first.

[trisha kobichenko]

seems it is always OK for GG to effect male behavior, jeans, football jerseys, no makeup, just a tomboy, etc.,....but not OK for a TG to effect female behavior, i.e. clothes, mannerisms, fashion interests, grooming etc. Hardly seems fair. Seems as though girls can enjoy the best of both worlds with no consequence, while males suffer the consequence of any gender variance. Hmm....
Hugs,
Trish

[Badwolf]

The "fix it" attitude is something I've taken issue with before on these forums and is the biggest issue that is a clear divider in between tolerance and even minor acceptance.

She needs to understand what therapy is for. Her behavior is not that of a person making a calm rational decision. While you may need some time with a therapist, it sounds like she needs some as well.

None of this means she doesn't have a right to her own feelings, or that even your relationship will be fixed just by her going. She might just figure out how to end this more calmly. You really never know how people are going to react until they do, as the OP already demonstrates.

[sometimes_miss]

You can't fix what not broke, the therapist will or should help you understand this side of you, that is why your wife must go with, you so she can learn that there is nothing wrong with you, she might find out something about her self, and that is the problem.
See, that's just it. There's nothing wrong with either him or her. It's a simple matter of what we're attracted to, and you can't change that. You can learn to accept stuff, but what's bothering most women about us is that it's a sexual turn off for them to observe a man behaving/dressing as a female (and once they've seen it, often they can't get it out of their heads). And in most cases, they didn't find out about it until after they were married to us. So they feel we cheated them out of having the normal masculine male husband that they worked so hard to 'catch', and are now stuck with something less than what they bargained for. So she gets three emotions at the same time; disappointment, sadness, and anger.
I don't know the answer; my own marriage fell apart from my wife discovering that I was a crossdresser. We had been going to therapy, sort of making some progress or at least not getting further apart, until my wife started going to support groups that fed her all kinds of nightmare ideas about me being gay or eventually transitioning to TS. Once those other women got it into her mind, nothing I could do would change how she felt, she just wanted out.
My only suggestion would be to offer some consolation to her of some sort; take her out more, take her dancing if she likes that and if you don't know how then take her to dancing school. Give her more reasons to want you again; take a class on massage, and give her a massage OFTEN. When you leave the house, kiss her, and linger a bit, hug her and hold her close for at least a minute or so to make her feel that you'll really miss her, and do this every time you go to work or out with the boys. Same when you come home; treat her like you haven't seen her for a year. Once a week, bring her flowers or candy on the way home from work. Remember little things she mentions that she likes, and get them for her (excuse yourself if necessary to write it down in your phone notes when you're out shopping). In short, do everything you can to make her life wonderful. It doesn't really take that much. Vacuum the house for her. Takes all of maybe 15 minutes once a week, but it will make a tremendous impact. Going to the kitchen for a beer? Wash whatever's in the sink. Oh, buy a heated toilet seat or a japanese toilet with all the toys. Do the laundry. When she's cold, don't give her a blanket, give her yourself and a blanket. Treat her like a princess. Let her know how much you care.

It might seem like a lot of work. But it's worth a shot. Because the only other option is your right hand for the rest of your life.

[Lidea]

Aaaaah. Sometimes-miss. I see you are also wise.

:heehee:

[Joni Beauman]

In early years (after revelation), my wife seemed to have wider swings of tolerance to intolerance. A bit more unpredictable. I think she needs to compartmentalize this and sometimes when out of the box, it can be unwelcome. The degree of her horror and swings have lessened in recent years. Its a gradual process aided by respecting boundaries.

[Marcelle]

I feel obliged to kind of jump in here as the OPs thread meanders down the "shame on you" versus the "you go girl . . . kick her to the curb" path. I think a lot people here have missed the point . . . the OP is hurting and her SO is hurting. Laying blame on any one party is counter productive and only serves to polarize the issue "you are right she is wrong" versus "she is right . . . fix it". The OP has some legitimate concerns about a sudden full stop reversal and her SO has the right to do so. We should attempt to be supportive without being judgemental on either side . . . once again your experiences are not the same as the OPs and we don't know the full circumstances. Please try to be cognizant of that when dispensing advice which is extreme in either direction. Yes the OP said a few things which she qualified in a later post as not being derogatory.


.... So please, be true to yourself and be the man that you said you would be when you married a girl.
Thank you for the men (like mine too) who actually get it and who try to put their wives and families first.

Lidea,

I fully understand your angst in this thing we (husbands) do when we have wives who are accepting/tolerating or whatnot. My wife supports me 100 percent and has never stopped thinking of me as a husband/man regardless of how I am dressed. Perhaps that is just her or perhaps it is the type of relationship we have. I always put my wife first but we compromise because she is also cognizant of how hard GD can be to deal with. The key word is compromise not "my way or the highway" in either direction. I find that some people here assume CDing is a hobby or fun thing we do with reckless abandon and little thought given to those around us and, something we can easily give up at the request of our SOs. In some cases that may be true but in others there is true emotional turmoil and just shutting it down can have serious ramifications on a person's psyche. The spill over affect into a relationship should a TG just stop is not going to be all sunshine and lollipops. Emotions of the repressed TG can run from silent anger to outright bitterness/resentment to self loathing, depression and doing something seriously bad. So yes, a TG should put their family first in the sense that they should be there for them in everyway a good person should be . . . supportive, loving, caring, strong. Does it truly matter how they are dressed? Does the person change? Are they less of a man because they wear women's clothing at times? If they are decent, caring and strong . . . presentation should not matter . . . they are the same person whom you married. Now if they are being selfish (i.e., wanting to take it to the bedroom when that is a no play zone or are spending the family fortune on dresses) then yes there is a problem. We all have to make decisions in life, if a GG finds out her husband is TG and an accord can be reached to keep the relationship moving in a positive direction then good. However, if she cannot get past the "dressed as a woman, not the man I married" then perhaps it is time for her to move on and many do. There is no harm no foul in either direction. But to expect the TG to give up everything and truly believe in some Polyanna sense that all will be right as rain . . . not going to happen as we have seen time and time again here.


... So they feel we cheated them out of having the normal masculine male husband that they worked so hard to 'catch', and are now stuck with something less than what they bargained for. So she gets three emotions at the same time; disappointment, sadness, and anger . . . Treat her like a princess. Let her know how much you care.

Sometimes Miss . . . not all women think this way and yes some will. However, that does not make us "abnormal" or "something less of a man" . . . I take exception to those statements and I expect you are just quoting and not believing these statements. However . . . "treat her like a princess" . . . that just smacks of gender stereotyping and sexism. I would never handle my wife with kid gloves. She is a strong person not some frail emotionally unbalanced person who needs to be coddled and handled. We interact like adults, I am there for her in everyway a partner in life should be and she is there for me. If we take exception, we don't tip toe around, we tell each other. I think a lot of times people miss the point . . . relationships are about communication, understanding and compromise. One party can't have it all and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work and exit visas are sometimes the only way forward.


So Erin, what happened? Something "happened" to cause her to gt pissed off.

Jennifer . . . why do we always assume it is the CDer who is to blame? Perhaps it was just a saturation point on the part the SO and she has had enough. Perhaps she thought she could deal with it and realized she can't. Laying blame almost feeds into the whole stereotype that we (TG/CDs) are always hiding something, doing something immoral or bad and we better sort ourselves out so we can be accepted. Sometimes relationships are about hard work for both parties and sometimes an impasse is just reached.


Its time to point out how disappointed you are in her MALE attire and MALE habits of watching NFL etc, Short hair to boot.
If she want to be alpha male then there is no room for 2 alpha males, and you will to take the feminine roll to balance out the house.

Sorry Bobbi . . . I can't agree here. My wife is not girly girl when it comes to clothing, make-up and whatnot but that is not how I define her as a woman or a partner. To me she is a strong, vibrant woman whom I would love regardless of how she presents or how much weight she gains . . . funny thing we all change over time from the person we married both in looks and personality that is not grounds for kicking someone to the curb. This type of ultimatum never goes well . . . it is best to work forward from a position of compromise and understanding not throwing down the gauntlet.


If she is going to be this controlling, and giving you ultimatums, and will not go with you to therapy, and it all has to be her way, no compromise, and she refuses to see she has issues, too, it may be time to have a long talk. I f she continues to attack you, it may be best to leave the toxic situation.

Hi Alice . . . I don't believe the SO is attacking the OP but more so has gone into a defensive posture in order to deal with an impasse. This does not make the relationship toxic but it does point out a serious problem which needs to be discussed. There is still room for discussion, I just believe both parties need some "cooling" time to deal with very huge emotions.


Hugs

Isha

[Angie926]

I must say I fel really sorry for you that she has turned and ran. Perhaps your getting to close to the woman she wants to be but doesn't know how to be? You say she just wears pants and has short hair. Has she ver looked at a woman and been attracted to her? She may be questioning her own feminity at the same time you are threating it. Fear is a great motivator to stop someone from doing something in a relationship. Be it change carreers, start a reckles hobby or just do what she think is outside the "normal" events or your relationship. Have you ever talked with her about why she wears and has the short hair. I must say that I don't buy into the story that woman cut off most of their hair because they are tired of it and it takes to long to deal with it. Whenever I hear that I always wonder what the real reason is?? Just a thought

[Lidea]

Isha, as usual your post makes a lot of sense.
Maybe my post should have been divided into several PM or visitor messages, since I basically reacted on the posts that other members made. I don't have an answer for the OP. Neither can I say who is right or wrong and who needs skme fixing, so to speak.
As a GG I can just sometimes shake my head at some of these posts, and yesterday I actually felt obliged to not only do the head shaking, but to speak up.

Oh, and being treated like a princess doesn't have anything to do with fragility. I am too a strong woman and I can stand my ground etc, but my husband treats me like a princess.... and I love it :battingeyelashes:

Angie. I can just say that I have had my hair in a lot of different styles..... one of my favourites is very short, almost like Demi Moore in Ghost. Currently it is still short, but not that short. And I definitely don't have uncertanties about my femininity. It is just personal preference, since my hair is super fine and when long it tend to look neglect....

[MissTee]

I am saddened to hear you are having such a tough time, Erin. I hope in time you and your wife can work it out. For what it's worth I am in a relationship where my wife fully supports me. I often think that's because I only dress at home and I only dress around her. The kids don't know (though one I think suspects) and Misty remains a secret to the outside world.

In doing so, I get what I need out of dressing and I do it in a way my wife is able to deal with. Something in me says that if ever I were to go public then she would likely not be as supportive. She might even do as your wife and suddenly reject the whole concept. As a result I will likely never cross that line. More to the point, I am not driven to need more "outing" than I already have.

To all that, I have to think of more than myself. As long as I am chief provider for my family and head of household I will do that. It is my belief that it would be incredibly short sighted and selfish for me to put my entire family through the pain of rejection and ridicule (even though much of it would be in a passive-aggressive sense) of me being more out. I know the people in my community and in my life (family too) and this thing we do is not embraced. That's sad, but it is what it is. I will remain a part of the Underground Railroad of support, but I am not an open crusader because my family and my ability to support them means more to me than "the cause."

Again, I hope you can work things out. Best of luck to you!

[Alice Torn]

Erin, I understand about your wife, and the NFL, and wearing team shirts, and also the short hair. Around here, Chicago Bears and Green Bay packers land, i see MANY ladies , and men wearing the Bears or Packers jerseys, hats, t-shirts, sweat shirts and pants, and jackets. And, i see the majority of women over say, 45, with very short hair, in this area i live in. I think it is just a trend. But, like old Johnny Cash sang, in a 1950's song, " I don't like it, but I guess things happen that way."