Who said Cross-dressing was evil?

[ReluctantDebutant]

Do you remember your younger days when you would sneak into your sis' or mom's room to try on their clothes? Why did you sneak? Why didn't you ask if you could wear the clothes? Did you have very proactive parents who laid down the strict gender apparel rules the moment you could understand? I am going to go out on a limb here and say very few of us ever thought of seeking permission first or ever got the "rules" laid out to us until after we got caught. So how did we know to sneak?

Must of been TV. C'mon who remembers all those episodes of Howdy Dowdy, Captain Kangaroo, Sesame Street, Mr. Roger's, Barney, Teletubbies and Yo Gabba Gabba that warned of the evils of cross-dressing? No? I do remember a lot of time given to 123's and ABC's, being polite, being honest, sharing, not hurting others, not hating those that are different etc... I just can't seem to remember an episode that told me not to cross-dress.

Must of been the books. You know Dr. Seuss's "The Boy in the Dress Makes Life a Mess." and "Man with Stockings Makes Suzy Lou's Face Shocking"? No those books weren't written. We got plenty of trains that could make it over mountains by trying, inquisitive chimpanzees, large crimson canines, families of bears, learning to like strangely colored food, and so on and so on. But no tales warning us the dangers that cross-dressing may bring to society.

All the classic tales that are told over and over seem lacking in the evils of cross-dressing. Aesop's fables, Biblical tales, Greek and Roman myths, 1001 Arabian nights, Beowulf, Arthurian Legends, Robin Hood, Grimm's fairytales, and many more have very little if any cross-dressing in it and if it does the CDing isn't the evil of the story and if it is the evil those tales aren't the popular one that are told again and again.

My point is that society transmits its values through time via the stories it tells. The same vices are fought against over and over again by heroes showing the same virtues over and over again. I can't think of one story that holds cross-dressing as the evil to be vanquished. And even not cross-dressing as the absolute virtue to be upheld.

We have often seen the protagonist cross-dress in the story; Huck Finn, Thor, Achilles, Hercules, Jimmy Olsen, Dick Grayson, Archie Andrews, Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker and many more have donned a female guise once or twice and society continues to enjoy their tales. Society doesn't seem to mind seeing men in dresses on stage and screen. Men have played women's part since the beginning of theater and films like, "Some Like it Hot", "Tootsie", and "White Chicks" have continued to fail at offending society (though "White Chicks" did come close but not for the cross-dressing):).

We often say that society is against us. I don't think it is society. I think it is something different. Something that is more encoded into humanity. Something that is only triggered when provoked. That same something in us that told us to sneak ourselves into that dress rather than ask. That same something that fight with the cross-dressing side early in our lives before one or the other wins.

[JayeLefaye]

Thanks for posting this RD....


My iPhone and & cramping thumb prevent me from responding more in depth at the moment.

I'm looking forward to seeing the initial responses in the morning , but I wanted to at least take the time to thank you for initiating a discussion with a very thoughtful post .

Thanks again

Jaye

PS...The literary examples, actually all kinda go against your initial observation...The cross dressing in them were ALL used as means of deception...ie: cross dressing=deception, not the acceptable mode...OK, thumb's giving out:-) Thanks again!

[Kate Simmons]

In all honesty, most of the potential "evil" of CDing is not the CDing itself but what others fear it may lead to and those fears are the fears of those individuals, not the CDers themselves. :)

[AngelaYVR]

I think I only sneaked because they weren't mine, just as I would sneak in to borrow a toy from my eldest brother. At 5yo I didn't know it was wrong (my mum caught me and from that point on I suspected it was something I shouldn't do). I remember my dad's troubled face at Beavers one day when I got to pick an enamelled mug from dozens of designs and chose the one with flowers on it. I definitely was learning to suppress things after that.

Angela xx

[ReluctantDebutant]

PS...The literary examples, actually all kinda go against your initial observation...The cross dressing in them were ALL used as means of deception...ie: cross dressing=deception, not the acceptable mode...OK, thumb's giving out:-) Thanks again!

The deception is the evil, cross-dressing is just a vehicle. Think of the evil queen in "Snow White" disguised as an old woman, Not CDing, it is the use of any disguise to do nefarious things. But good guys can cross-dress if it is needed to save the day. Some tellings of Robin Hood have if him and his merry men dressing as maidens to rescue Maid Marian. Cross-dressing is a deception and a deception is usually bad unless it is used for ultimate good in these stories. But the bad guy's badness never stems form cross-dressing, It is a real evil he does to be the villain.

[sometimes_miss]

Do you remember your younger days when you would sneak into your sis' or mom's room to try on their clothes? Why did you sneak? Why didn't you ask if you could wear the clothes?
I already had that discussion when, around 4, I put on some of my sister's old clothes in an attempt to be more like her and go to school too. Mom was not amused, and her tone indicated that it wasn't acceptable. Which was weird to me, because she had been dressing me in sis's old clothes only a year before. But I knew how they all felt about what I had done, neither parent would tolerate the idea, and my sister of course would have killed me. And I had no desire to piss her off any more than she was already; I was getting hit pretty often by her as it was. 'Dethroned monarchs' are a bitch.

[Maria Blackwood]

Eh...

(Puts on some lingerie like a boss)

[AletaHawk]

Like Kate said, I think it's more the societal (or at least old society) fear that you might like wearing girl clothes, which of course equals gay, which equals the destruction of the human race.

Obviously not my personal feelings, but that's how I always interpreted the negative feelings on the subject. That and this idea that a "straight" man could be "tricked" into homosexual acts. We all know that in 99% of the cases, that's BS, but it's used as a defense.

[JayeLefaye]

The deception is the evil, cross-dressing is just a vehicle. Think of the evil queen in "Snow White" disguised as an old woman, Not CDing, it is the use of any disguise to do nefarious things. But good guys can cross-dress if it is needed to save the day. Some tellings of Robin Hood have if him and his merry men dressing as maidens to rescue Maid Marian. Cross-dressing is a deception and a deception is usually bad unless it is used for ultimate good in these stories. But the bad guy's badness never stems form cross-dressing, It is a real evil he does to be the villain.

Exactly! You and I are on the same page:-)....Which is why I'm glad you started this thread...The "Bad Guys" are bad guys, and are NEVER cross-dressed(well maybe somewhere in Aristophanie's plays but my Ancient Greek is a little rusty)...But in your examples, it was the GOOD GUYS who used cross dressing to defeat Evil and the Village was saved! YAY!!!....

But what if, in the next Woody Woodpecker or Bugs Bunny cartoon....OR... what if in the other legendary tales, after the Village had been saved , the Good Guys, Robin Hood etc, showed up still wearing skirts and working on their make-up?...What would the Public's reaction have been to them???

Good Guys cross dressing to defeat evil=Good...

Good Guys cross dressing to defeat Evil, and then showing up the next day still dressed??? Not so acceptable....Feed that to Aesop & let him think about the next chapter...."Happily Ever After" isn't always the end of the story...

But now that I have access to a laptop...Maybe you should have titled this thread "Cross dressers as Heroes"....:-)

Thanks again!

Jaye

[ReluctantDebutant]

My assertion is not that cross-dressing is loved by society but that it is just not hated. If it was hated by society as a whole you would see more proactive efforts in the culture to fight it. You would see Anti-cross-dressing PSAs, Children would be taught not to cross-dress in schools, books, films, video games would have cross-dressers as the bad guy for the act of crossdressing itself. Human culture tells all sorts of morality plays against drug dealers, murders, robbers, wife beaters, child abusers, terrorist, dictators, rapists, corporate cheats, or just plain jerks. Why? Because Society as a whole has a real problem with those kinds of people. Society's "problem" with CDings is a discomfort when a person starts to blur the gender lines. I have had many discussions with my friends who do not cross-dress. they all pretty much say the same thing "Hey if a guy wants to wear a dress, or be gay or whatever. That's fine by me. I don't want to see a law against it or nuthin But just do that some where where I ain't gotta see it." This shows me that these kinds don't care enough to make a big deal over it they just don't want to have to deal with it. While not anything near a warm embrace of this lifestyle it is far from what society wants done to those people on my earlier list.

Yes there are those that do violence against CDers in the world But Society as a whole makes an effort to punish those who do violence in other words society hates the violent haters.

[Dorit]

I believe that societies attitudes towards cross dressing, and for that matter all sex and gender issues, are largely formed by their cultural-religious heritage. In the west it is the Judeo-Christian religious tradition that for thousands of years was clearly against any behavior that differentiated from the polar male-female behavior. Any such deviance was branded as evil. Children's literature and fables did not deal with the subject because the religion clearly did. So when I put on my sister's skirt at six years old, danced in front of the mirror and loved it, it was everything in the society that told me NO, even though at the time I did it openly and not sneakily. Later as I realized what the attitude of my religion-culture is to my desire to be a girl, I got sneaky! So I believe that that for us in the west, society is against us! However, we are all witnessing a tremendous on going change in the religious-cultural values of the west towards gender and sexuality. We are privileged to be part of this change, but there is still a long way to go towards societal acceptance.

[Beverley Sims]

Cross dressing is evil, because it sucks money out of your purse when you least expect it.
I was on the Magnificent Mile, N State St. looking in Nordstroms and Forever 21's windows tonight, tomorrow I will examine them more closely.

Yes dressing can be an evil past time. :)

Other than that I would not dwell on the evils of dressing.

[Melissa73]

actually in my teen years, my dad (who was divorced/separated from mom since i was like 3 yrs old, told me not to wear my sisters clothes! (it was inferred that id get in trouble). Did i continue? heck yes! i was at dads house everyother weekend. and mostly dressed at moms house! how was he gonna punish me????

[Teresa]

There are so many reasons why we CD but if we do it as a young child parents have so many thoughts why ? Some start to blame themselves because they have brought them up wrong ! Some panic because they have concerns about the child's gender ! Often they try and pass it off as something they will l grow out of !

I had a GF at a very young age and the feelings for her made me sneak off and wear a shapely swimsuit ! For starters other kids would tease me for having a GF ( which I didn't mind !) girls were actually worse than boys for that ! I certainly wouldn't have asked to wear the clothes because my dressing was sexual ! To most of us our sex lives are very private so even at the age I was ( 8-9 yrs. ), my sexual thoughts and actions were already private to me !

The comic book heroes actually wore pretty stupid outfits ! If it wasn't for the bulging muscles you would say some were slightly effeminate which is fairly obvious when they show the female counterpart, all they do is stick a short skirt over an almost identical outfit !!

Is society against us ? Not really, the herd instinct in us doesn't always want to accept something slightly different !

[Dorit]

Cross dressing is evil, because it sucks money out of your purse when you least expect it.
I was on the Magnificent Mile, N State St. looking in Nordstroms and Forever 21's windows tonight, tomorrow I will examine them more closely.

I like your humor! I have the same problem with the emails from ASOS! (The UK girls will understand this)