bearded dude in a dress, not a crossdresser ??? .....dang rant....

[mykell]

this was directed to crossdressing....so im addressing it as one....i didnt get a handbook when i joined and didnt know i was doing it wrong.

just read a thread and found a comment that if you sport a beard you are not a crossdresser "just a dude in a dress"?? but i grew a beard this summer and have dressed a few times and posted some new avatars and shoe selfies, but according to this post im "just a dude in a dress."

now im not a seasoned veteran here but i have felt comfortable in my time here since ive joined, this statement did not make sense to me, kinda offended me....
padding, wigs, painted nails, clothes, and shoes the full compliment, we are still just dudes. i dont have all that.

does the amount of preparation change what we are, does our monetary capabilities to commit or invest in our dressing change who we are.
i dont think it does, i have been told i would pass, i doubt i would but have felt confident of my accomplishments on some occasions, others not so much but i felt comfortable feeling like me and after years of being judged by society i felt comfortable here, so why would we judge each other.

is it from being here so often and honing our skills that we feel superior to others, unrestricted resources to attain the finer things to use and perfect our look make you better at being a crossdresser? i dont think it does.

i remember seeing a post here about a crossdressing singer on a talent show, she had a full beard and i was jealous of her make up... and her voice was beautiful....

why cant we all support each other.....can we do a refresh....

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Mikell, RE: Facial Hair,I checked my copy of the Crossdressers Handbook and it says,

" If It Feels Good Then Do It."

Meanwhile I'm trying to get rid of all facial hair.:daydreaming:

[Andy66]

Hahahahahahaha! Sorry, did we just go from being self conscious about being a crossdresser, to being angry when someone says youre NOT one?

I think most of us know that persons remark made no sense. Dont let it ruin your day. :love:

By the way, I get it alot, being f2m, that Im not crossdressing unless Im trying to fool someone yada yada... Well, I couldnt fool a blind guy in a dark room, I just like the clothes that I like, so whatever. :tongueout:

[lisalove]

As long as you're wearing the clothes meant for the opposit sex, then you're a crossdresser.
It doesn't matter if it's only one article of clothing or the whole shebang.
It doesn't matter if you're covered in hair or have none at all.
Just tell the offender to kiss your dress covered butt and mind their own business.

[Tina_gm]

CrossDRESSER.com or so it says. unless you plan on or in the process of transitioning, or are going out and attempting to pass or blend, what you do with your clothes and facial hair is YOUR business. I guess I am a crossdresser DUDE in a dress, so be it.

[Leahann]

When my wife found out I shaved my pits, wore panties, slept in a nightshirt, and wore a lounger from an online women's site, she said I was a crossdresser. I had to agree with her. If you feel you are, you are.

[Adriana Moretti]

....you do your thing....we are all at different places with this.....if it makes you happy...do it....

[Maria Blackwood]

I follow the wisdom of Cartman on this one.

233999

You have my full support.

[Stephanie Voorhees]

Member of the "dude in a dress" club right here. I have a goatee that I am quite fond of and have no intention to shave. I also have a bald head that I do not cover with a wig... Don't even own one. Dressing the way I do is what makes me happy and that's all that matters.

[Greenie]

Oh mikell,

There are people in this world who will continue to think they are better than everyone else. Especially when people can hide behind the cowardice of a computer screen, typing away their idiotic thoughts and opinions, the rest of us will continue to have to read them.

As the future wife of a "dude in a dress", who gives a flying f what anyone else thinks.

But true, I wish those who held those opinions kept themselves off the internet. Alas. Our world. :/

[Lvjim]

Everyone has different ways to express thier femininity and different degrees of femininity.
Its all good

[NicoleScott]

Beard or not, if you dress in women's clothes, you are a crossdresser. But if you have a beard, you will appear to outsiders as a dude in a dress. No big deal. Don't let others define you.

[Beverley Sims]

Mikell wearing a dress and supporting a beard means you are a crossdresser but just a little different in your following.:)

[Rachelakld]

Disagreeing, because I can.
I mean would you call a Scotsman in a tartan pleated skirt a crossdresser, or the Samoans in my city when they wear their traditional clothes that look and function like a skirt
In my city, there are a few dudes in dresses (and some look good). When talking to them it's like talking to any other dude.

For ME, a crossdresser does it to emulate what being a female, means to themselves.

So if your wearing a skirt and repairing a diesel motor, I'd call you a mechanic.
If your wearing the same skirt and trying to be feminine, then I would consider you a crossdresser, if you also wore makeup & tried to look "pretty" they I would know you to be further up the crossdressing scale

But really - do you need a label? Just have fun, beard or not

[ReineD]

Everyone has their own definitions. This is not surprising, since we have multiple layers and flavors of cross-gender expression that we all try to describe with mostly three words: "crossdresser", "transgender", and "transsexual". So, people usually use one of these words to define themselves and some of them tell others who aren't like them, that they don't belong.

Until we come up with more descriptive ways to define individuals here, we'll keep going 'round in circles about what these words mean.

Also, there's a segment of our membership that doesn't want to be linked with anything to do with "fetish", which was the way that many (most?) people thought of the crossdressing decades ago. People used to think that men who put on dresses and who didn't try to pass as women, did so for kinky reasons. So these members feel that every time the public sees an individual who is obviously a male wearing a dress, that it casts an unfavorable light on the crossdressers who do try to blend in. I suppose the idea is that if someone tries to "pass", they are more serious about it (or more of a woman?) than someone who doesn't.

Just ignore these people.

[KittyD]

Hey mikell :)

I think I came across this post...! I wasn't overly happy either reading it... and like you say this dosen't come with a handbook or rule book etc...
The clue is in the name "Cross...Dress"
Pently of guys keep their breads and dress - Why not, right?
Wear what you want and look how you like and feel great on the outside and on the inside :D

KD

[Amanda M]

Rachelakid - you could call a Scotsman in a tartan pleated skirt a crossdresser, but probably only once! Dae ye no' ken that when we put on the kilt, we instantly become Alpha males, Braveheart and Sean Connery all rolled into one?

[Talisker]

I find it interesting that crossdressers really do come from all walks of life and different type of people....... unfortunately that also means there are some damned stupid crossdressers :doh:

[bridget thronton]

Enjoy it and ignore folks who tell you "you are doing it wrong"

[vicky_cd99_2]

I don't have a hair from my nose to my toes. When I do dress as a girl with makeup and wig the whole lot. I am still a dude in a dress. I am the size of an NFL linebacker and close to the same build. Size 22-24 top, 14 bottom. Sister don't worry about labels. If it makes you feel good.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

It's really no more or less confronting for the rest of us (the non CD/TG population) to see a bearded man in a dress or a man fully presenting as a woman. Both are a head spin! Both are equal and normal forms of human expression. The term 'crossdresser' just means wearing the clothing of the opposite gender. You can interpret this as you please, as can this forum and everyone on it. Heck, my H dresses like a hooker so he can get his rocks off, yet he still connects with y'all! :eek: In the end, unless you're TS and taking hormones or blessed with a naturally feminine build, most here are 'dudes in a dress'.

Just be you. x

[donnalee]

You get to define yourself; what others choose to define you as doesn't matter and is their problem, not yours.
I'm afraid that, as in any other group, there are those who believe their definition applies to everyone; in fact, it applies only to themselves and is an extremely poor way of judging others. It's called prejudice.

[jaleecd]

I went through the FB offering of the faces of walmart. the examples of semi feminine dress was Far out and a hoot. the {dressers} did not deserve the title crossdresser, unless it was the Barnun and Bailly clown attempt. We would like to think that in our dressing, we are giving honor to our vision of femininty. I dont have a beard, but am built like a pregnant fullback, so what fills my minds eye does not jibe with the actual presentation. This is why this act will never play outside my fortified closet walls. No brag, just fact. So dress and play to that theater of the mind and enjoy.

[Zylia]

I'd say "dude in a dress" is an apt description of any kind of cross-dresser :D It's up to yourself and (unfortunately) mother or nature whether or not you look like one.

[Katey888]

I find it interesting that crossdressers really do come from all walks of life and different type of people....... unfortunately that also means there are some damned stupid crossdressers :doh:

:D

Mikell - I don't believe you stop becoming a crossdresser just because you grow a beard. In fact, experience here shows that if you purge all your femme clothes and accessories, put away dressing for years at a time, go off and have kids, play golf, sail, do a day job, retire... even after all of that, you're still a crossdresser - as many of us are so acutely aware.

As for the beard thing... ignore it.
There are bearded ladies - and some women can be quite hirsute without artificial aids (my sister-in-law could probably sport a better 'tache than me... :eek:) - there are some very smooth-skinned men... neither changes what they are.
Some folk look like dogs or other animals (I think...) - it doesn't make them the animal they resemble...

I suspect with some folk, not being supportive to others is a kind of subconscious insecurity - "if I can justify to myself that others look worse, that makes me better..." Some people only understand a zero-sum game - I don't believe that's the best use of our energy.

Your avatar is a devilish red right now... is that because you're so angry...? ;)

Katey x

[Kate Simmons]

Whoever is criticizing you probably needs to take a good look in the mirror themself. We usually see what we want to see, however. There is no wrong way to do it.:)

[~Joanne~]

I strongly believe, there is no right way to cross dress, nor is there a wrong way. You dress the way you want and forget the nonsense brought to you by others. One thing I have noticed about this forum is that others, like the general public, want everyone to conform to the way THEY do things, like their way is the right way. The only right way is to be true to yourself. period.

[Tonya Rose]

I have been a cross dresser as far back as I can remember. And have had a beard as far back as well. I shaved it off once. And think I looked a lot more rridiculous without the beard than I do in a dress. When I look in the mirror and see that beautiful woman looking back at me. It doesn't matter what others think. I know how I feel... :hugs:

[LilSissyStevie]

Rejoice! You're cured. If I knew that growing a beard would make me "not a crossdresser" I would have done it long ago. I never wanted to belong to a cult with a bunch of rules. I just like to dress up in frilly clothes sometimes.

[docrobbysherry]

Mikell, I'm wearing a beard and stash in nearly every pic I post here. And, that's A LOT OF PICS! Someone said, "There r no rules". This is your hobby or life and no two of us walk the exact same path!

Have a beard and stash on here.
234023

[taylormercedes]

I think most people have it right. It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you're happy and it doesn't hurt anyone else why not?

[Jorja]

OMG, a beard and a skirt! At the same time? Really? Really. Who cares? As long as you are being the true you and you are comfortable with it, it is fine by me. Do your own thing. So what if you don't color within the lines in someone elses coloring book?

[natcrys]

I love seeing how the overwhelming majority of the comments in this thread are on your side, Mikell! :)

A beard, a moustache,.. heck.. if you want to sport a mohawk B.A. Baracus style.. go for it! :D

[Rachael Leigh]

Mikell you are so right we all have different ways we express this part of ourselves I mean thats really what this is an expression.
I know for me I like to dress just about everyday but rare is it I go all out with makup or wig I just love the clothes and how they look.
Now I dont go out dressed enfem without makeup and such but dress in my girly stuff at home but without a doubt Im a CD all the way.
Yes we should all respect each other for sure.
Leigh

[Teresa]

Mikell,
No one can stop you wearing whatever clothes you choose and with a beard if you also choose to !
The comments you get especially if you are out are made out of utter confusion by the public and some members !
MM posted a while ago complaining about some bad reactions when out !
The problem is CDing confuses people enough, why does this guy want to wear a dress ? When you go out dressed but with a beard people don't know if you're taking CDing seriously or playing at being a guy in a dress ! They are too confused to know how to react !
MM chose to make the point in an aggressive way, it didn't make any difference to the confusion !
I guess it's also why some CDers also take exception to it, they have worked hard on their appearance and tried to pass in public and a guy in a dress with a beard comes along and muddies the waters for them ! The public just shakes their heads and calls us all weirdos !!

[SherriePall]

Looks like I didn't start crossdressing until I shaved off my moustache (which sometimes was a full-blown fu-Manchu). All those wasted years!

[Jennifer W]

Okay I'm going to put in my 2 cents. I'm a guy. I have a mustache. In the colder weather I grow a goatee. I don't wear forms, a wig or makeup. My female wardrobe consists of yoga pants, leggings, tank tops, T's, jeans and panties. Am I a crossdresser? You bet I am! And proud of it! I go in public places "dressed." I am who I am. Not going out of my way to tell friends that I do. If they find out, good for them. My wife isn't keen on that idea but I don't go out of my way to broadcast myself. Bottom line is be you.

[Jenniferathome]

Funny thing is that crossdressing literally means the dressing, not the female illusion.

[Marcelle]

HI Mikell,

This is precisely why I don't like labels as everyone things they know how to pigeon hole people into them. We are people plain and simple . . . we just have different ways of expressing ourselves. :) So don't pay much attention to those naysayers who think they can fit us into a what constitutes a cross dresser or not . . . they just don't get it.

Hugs

Isha

[heatherdress]

mikell - Who cares about definitions? Who cares about arrogant or narrow-minded people?

Wear what you want. Feel good about it.

Bearded/bald/big/tall/short/tattooed/thin/heavy/beautiful/ugly..... We are who we are. Most of us accept all of us.

Glad you are a member of this forum.

[Krisi]

I don't get the point you seem to be trying to make but if you are a "dude" and you wear a dress, you are a "dude in a dress" and a "crossdresser". If that floats your boat, fine, do it.

I do have trouble undestanding why a man would put on a dress, blouse and skirt, possibly women's heels and then venture out in public as "himself" with no attempt to appear female or at least disguise his face. People are going to view him as a freak or a nut case and of course he risks his job and reputation in the community (if he has one).

There was a post on this forum a while back where a member put on a skirt and panties but made no other attempt to look like a woman and went to a fast food restaurant and asked the young male worker if he wanted to see his (the dude in a dress) panties. To me, that's wrong. Really wrong. That could have been considered sexual harassment.

It's a free world (at least in the USA, don't try it in the middle east) so if you feel like going out and scaring the masses, go right ahead. Me, I'll do my best imitation of the woman I would have been if I had been born female. That's what floats my boat.

[Jamie001]

I don't get the point you seem to be trying to make but if you are a "dude" and you wear a dress, you are a "dude in a dress" and a "crossdresser". If that floats your boat, fine, do it.

I do have trouble undestanding why a man would put on a dress, blouse and skirt, possibly women's heels and then venture out in public as "himself" with no attempt to appear female or at least disguise his face. People are going to view him as a freak or a nut case and of course he risks his job and reputation in the community (if he has one).

If a woman were to put on mens pants, mens shoes, and a mans shirt and go out in public, would she be viewed as a nutcase?

There are also men that just like to wear skirts while still appearing as a man. And yes, they are accepted in society. See the following link:

http://www.skirtcafe.org

There are also folks like myself that are "feminine men" that like to incorporate items from women's fashion such as capri pants, shoes, purses, nail polish and other items. It is called fashion freedom!

Not everyone needs to pass as a woman. I wish some of the folks here could get a grip on this simple concept and stop being so judgmental.

[mykell]

I don't get the point you seem to be trying to make but if you are a "dude" and you wear a dress, you are a "dude in a dress" and a "crossdresser". If that floats your boat, fine, do it.

I do have trouble undestanding why a man would put on a dress, blouse and skirt, possibly women's heels and then venture out in public as "himself" with no attempt to appear female or at least disguise his face. People are going to view him as a freak or a nut case and of course he risks his job and reputation in the community (if he has one).
It's a free world (at least in the USA, don't try it in the middle east) so if you feel like going out and scaring the masses, go right ahead. Me, I'll do my best imitation of the woman I would have been if I had been born female. That's what floats my boat.

my point was the OP of that thread was relating a story of getting caught wearing the clothes, you instead decided to question his ability to crossdress correctly and how to deal with his SO about it, its a support site, i didnt want to hijack his thread and started this one, here in this thread your post applies and most dont agree with your opinion but it didnt deserve to be in the other thread, passing or not passing isnt the end game for all who venture here, most i assume are just relieved to find that they are not the only ones who do this weird thing we do, yes i think its weird but have come to embrace it since ive been here and feel normal when i visit.

i try to go daily to the intro section and welcome the folks that post there, i havnt checked but i may have welcomed you here. i remember how good it felt for people to genuinely greet a total stranger who was feeling very strange about themselves and always try to pay it forward.

like iv stated earlier some dont have the resources to "pull it off" some will never leave the comfort of the closet, some no matter how much they want cant "pull it off" and does not mean they very much desire to and are maybe envious of those who do so easily.

so my point of the thread was to show some compassion and understanding, less judgement, more support, more encouragement.

sometimes the duckling is ugly, doesnt mean it doesnt feel pain, doesnt mean it doesnt want to feel love.

like i said lets click on refresh.....

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?219918-whew-or-dang

[MelanieAnne]

I dunno. Technically, if you wear womens clothes, you're a crossdresser. If you wear womens clothes with a beard, you're one of the Budweiser boys!

[docrobbysherry]

Funny thing is that crossdressing literally means the dressing, not the female illusion.
That is true, Jenn. Yet the "female illusion", is so important to many of us. I count myself as one of the lucky "illusionists" that can succeed. Maybe not like u, out in public. But, at least I can make myself happy looking at Sherry in the mirror at home now. There was a time I couldn't even look in the mirror until I finished every last detail.


I dunno. Technically, if you wear womens clothes, you're a crossdresser. If you wear womens clothes with a beard, you're one of the Budweiser boys!
U r entitled to your opinion of course, Melanie. I dress bearded all the time. I am in this pic. Do u see a resemblance to them in it?

234100

For the record, I don't wear masks to cover my beard but to cover my wrinkled, old man face. Not having to shave is just a pleasant bonus!

[heatherdress]

I don't understand why anyone here would want to know why someone crossdresses with a beard, and criticize them.

Or those of use who crossdress and do not wear a wig, or makeup or breastforms or a dress.

Some of us may pass, or think they pass, or blend. Unfortunately, even if we do pass or blend - many people may think we are a freak or a nut case or a Budweiser boy no matter how good we look or what we wear. Will you ever really know or should you really care about what they think about you?

Even if we do pass or blend or follow all the "rules of crossdressing" that some of us apparently think we should, we still have the same risks of non-acceptance and work-place difficulties no matter how feminine we appear - because some people are narrow-minded and judgmental. It's our choice - how we dress and where we go and risks we are willing to take.

As long as someone is not dressing or behaving in a lewd manner, no one here should care or judge.

[Melanie B]

I work on the assumption that crossdressing is exactly what the words say -- wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. In 21st century western culture, I don't think a woman wearing trousers is crossdressing, but a bloke wearing lacy knickers or a bra or a dress definitely is (but I accept that different people/times/cultures may have different opinions.
Personally, I hate being a crossdresser. If there was some elixir that could make me all woman or all man, and make crossdressing go away, I would take it straight away.
But without that magic potion, I always found that having a full beard was a big help in suppressing my CDing.With a beard, I didn't have the courage to go out into the real world, so the Mel me was effectively under house-arrest.
Without a beard, Mel is able to get on with life in the real world -- not passing, but not making too much of an exhibition of myself.

[charlenesomeone]

I agree we should not judge. If the OP wants to go out with a beard and "stash" that is up to them.
I wouldn't but that is me. I know some call facial hair "fetish" dress, I don't like that term either.
Like Heather says, even if we think we pass, beard or not when read, we are subject to societies view of
us. Advancing the "cause" will not be affected either way.
Char

[Ressie]

Like most guys, I tried different facial hair configurations starting at adolescence. Beard, mustache - still can't grow sideburns! I also started crossdressing about the same time. So I've seen myself in the mirror many times wearing women's clothing and sporting facial hair. I never liked the combination myself, but it would be hypocritical for me to say it's wrong since I've done it many times.

Since I'm from the '50s I still go with the old school definition of crossdresser or transvestite. That is, if one habitually wears even one article of clothing of the opposite sex, it's cross dressing.

Before I joined this board I noticed that most of the members were geared toward female emulation which is fine, but panties and a beard still = CD.

[mykell]

so i just wanted to thank all who replied and showed support for this, although i have grown a goatee the initial comment was not to me but i was trying to stick up for a sister in another thread, then the comment came here also, so thanks for having my back, we are a kind bunch for the most part...

found this on the web and wanted to share.....

[Rachelakld]

Question then to the term crossdressers,

so a female in cowboy boots is a crossdresser?
a daughter who borrows "dads socks" on a cold winter night is a crossdresser?
a female in jeans in the 1880 is a crossdresser?
a female in tights in the 1600 is a crossdresser?
a female in the 1500 with make up is a crossdresser?

a female this year, in any of the above is a crossdresser?

Should I mention it to the 150Kg dude in the Lava-lava (island skirt), that his woman in jeans is a crossdresser- I don't think so, nor would I call him "Miss"

And here was I thinking the crossdressing LABEL was an attitude, a state of mind, regardless of facial hair or any other physical feature.

Thanks for the update on the meaning of the label, but I ain't calling anyone with a beard "miss" until I know them better

[ReineD]

Rachel, females in cowboy boots are socially acceptable, as is a daughter who borrows her father's socks. I'm not sure what the social repercussions would have been for a woman in 1880 to wear blue-jeans, likely it would have been acceptable if she lived out on the frontier.

Men who wear women's clothing that are obviously purchased in women's stores regrettably do not fit under the umbrella of what is currently socially acceptable in our society, whether they have a beard or not. Herein lies the difference. Beards just make the men who wear them more noticeable because the visual cues are more starkly conflicting. I don't think it matters much to the general public what the state of mind or motive is. They just see a physical looking male who is wearing women's clothes. I hope that one day it gets better.

[Jamie001]

I don't think it matters much to the general public what the state of mind or motive is. They just see a physical looking male who is wearing women's clothes. I hope that one day it gets better.

It will only get better if more guys get out there and incorporate feminine articles of clothing into their everyday presentation. For example, presenting as a feminine male, without trying to deceive others that you are a woman. The reason that women wearing men's clothing is acceptable is because when women incorporate items from men's fashion, they don't try to deceive others into thinking that they are a man. They are just women incorporating men's articles of clothing. Men can do the same by incorporating women's articles of clothing into their presentation without attempting to deceive that they are a woman, however, most men are of the herd mentality and and are too afraid to think and act out of the box.

[Rachelakld]

I agree Reine,
fashion changes over the years, and it would appear that girls have always been "toughening up" in to mens clothes but does them wearing guys clothes make them crossdressers as people have suggested here, "that to wear ANY of the opposite sex clothing is termed crossdressing" (Okay technically yes, but then it becomes normalized in our society - look at Angelina Jolie in the tux - would you define her as a crossdresser - I think not).

Again from my point of view only - the guy on his stag night who ended the night dress like a girl is NOT a crossdresser, but a guy just being a drunk rebel
The guys in my city who wear dressers, mostly DO NOT intend to be feminine, DO NOT intend to be crossdressers, but just rebels against the norms imposed by society or following their cultural norms.

My litmus test is - if a male stranger came to and asked for the time, and he was wearing a skirt, would you address him "Miss"? In my society, for every 100, you would be punched about 95 times.

This is why my definition differs of from those who maybe don't interact with many skirt wearing males.

Sorry if this upsets anyone who opinions differ, I mean no disrespect, I just see the world differently and live in a place where guys can wear dresses without being issued a label.

[Melanie B]

I'm no historian, but my understanding is that it was the wars that made trousers acceptable for women. Without such a powerful driving force, the acceptance of "female" clothing for men has been more gradual, and with some backward steps. But long hair, earrings, pink T-shirts, necklaces and bracelets, etc.. are all far more acceptable now than they were 50 years ago.
I vividly remember my dad accusing me of "dressing like a girl" in about 1970-ish because I was wearing a lilac shirt with a high collar and back zip fastening, white flared trousers with no pockets, and boots with zips and 2-inch heels! Oh, I had a very tiny ponytail, and was wearing what he called "perfume" (aftershave). But everything I was wearing was completely in line with teenage male fashion at the time. To my dad back then, and probably to many people now, the shirt and trousers would probably look at least a bit camp, if not downright effeminate.

[Seana Summer]

I have seen very few men who can look like a genetic women no matter how much hair is removed. All of us have telling features whether we like it or not. We are all a dude in a dress to some degree if we were born with male anatomy. There is just no getting around it.

As a large man with big feet and large hands who likes to wear dresses, Thanks for this thread!!

[Vieja]

It is just one guys opinion. Right? Ignore it.


Vieja

[Taylor186]

To belabor Heather's excellent point.

You can crossdress without being a crossdresser,
You can be a crossdresser without crossdressing.

I am (since I realized it at age 6 or 7) a crossdresser and I am a crossdresser 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I am a crossdresser when dressed in male clothing (most of the time), I am a crossdresser when dressed in female clothing and I am a crossdresser when completely unclothed. My world is colored by this fact. I think of it as my brain is "hard wired" with the desire to crossdress, as it is with every crossdresser I've ever encountered. A simplistic dictionary definition has no meaningful place in this conversation.

And to the original post, I was an active crossdresser at 7 when I didn't need to shave. I was an active crossdresser in my 20s when I grew a beard, I was an active crossdresser in my 30s when I only had a mustache and I continue to be an active crossdresser today even though I shave every day.

I am for celebrating the diversity of our crossdressing expression and not judging those who express it differently than myself. Let's face it, we're all different, and that is a good thing.

[Rachelakld]

Thank you Taylor, exactly my point - It's the intent (what is inside a person)

I can now relax knowing the 3 x John Rambo I see often who wear camo jackets and floral dress are in fact non-conformist dressers and NOT actually cross dressers, because they don't actually want to cross dress

[Wildaboutheels]

Obviously men and women who dress "normally" don't have a lock on being clueless. I could fill several pages with some very strange quotes from this watering hole. And many here DO post under the influence so that's to be expected. Maybe a rule forbidding posting under the influence...

The #1 rule for any Forum of any type is to not let any of the words of ANY of the participants annoy you. They are after all just letters arranged in particular sequences.

There are plenty here who have no need or desire to "pass as a woman".

I think the name of the site is perfectly explanatory.

[ReineD]

The reason that women wearing men's clothing is acceptable is because when women incorporate items from men's fashion, they don't try to deceive others into thinking that they are a man. They are just women incorporating men's articles of clothing. Men can do the same by incorporating women's articles of clothing into their presentation without attempting to deceive that they are a woman, however, most men are of the herd mentality and and are too afraid to think and act out of the box.

I understand your point, but the issue is numbers.

Nearly 100% of women adopted wearing pants in western culture. And they didn't just wear men's pants with confidence, they actually adapted men's pants and made them feminine. This is what made the pants acceptable and why the fashion became wide-spread. The waists got smaller, the pants fit their derrières better, the designs, patterns, fabrics, etc were more feminine. I think you'd be able to tell if a woman was actually wearing men's pants. But, only about 1%-3% (or 5% if you want to be optimistic) men are willing to wear women's clothes in public, plus most CDers (at least on this site) are not interested in adapting the skirts to make them masculine like kilts, they want to wear the skirts that women wear. The vast majority of men are not interested in doing this, nor will they ever be.

There was an attempt a few years to popularize the wearing of man-skirts by the designer, Jean-Paul Gaultier. But, the look was NOT feminine. The models were manly looking men who wore a modern version of a kilt or a utility skirt, paired with men's shirts, socks, and manly looking shoes, and showing hairy legs. It wasn't an attempt to feminize men, it was rather an attempt to redefine men's fashion … in much the same way that women redefined women's fashion by adapting men's pants to suit their feminine styles and bodies. Gaultier's idea didn't become popular.

[Taylor186]

Designer Marc Jacobs (right) tried too and walked-the-walk for several seasons. You won't see him wearing a skirt today. My impression was that most women didn't like the look any more than most men.

[ReineD]

I've always LOVED the look. Think Liam Neeson and Sean Connery. :daydreaming:

http://professionalfangirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Liam-Neeson-Rob-Roy.jpg
http://professionalfangirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Sean-Connery-Kilt.jpg

[Jamie001]

Reine,

You summarized the problem, but probable didn't realize it. When a women's fashion article is imported for use by men, the designers goal is to masculinize it. That is the problem! The article of clothing is fine staying feminine and being mixed with other masculine and feminine items. We need to learn that it is perfectly fine to express both masculine and feminine in the same person. Women do this all of the time, while men follow the herd mindset and are terrified of anything that even appears remotely feminine. I have even seen articles in the NY Times regarding how women can wear large clunky men's watches like Rolex Submariners, and I have seen supermodels doing just that.

A good concept is to create a mix of feminine and masculine characteristics in an overall presentation. For example, a woman can wear makeup and a feminine skirt while masculine shoes such as combat boots. We have seen this look quite often. A male could wear a normal shirt, jeans, and wedge high-heel women's shoes. There are a lot of workable combinations of mixing masculine and feminine looks, however most men are deathly afraid of adding anything even remotely feminine to their look. I have seen many articles in women's magazines about how to add masculine items from their boyfriend's closet, but I have never seen an article in a men's magazine about how to incorporate items from a girlfriend's closet. We all are a mix of different quantities of masculine and feminine characteristics and should not be afraid to express the masculine and the feminine regardless of our biological sex. Will men ever get over the fear feminine? On the positive side, there was an article in the NY Times last year about the increasing number of men wearing nail polish even if only on their toes. I guess any progress will be very slow because boys are conditioned from the time that they speak their first words that emulating anything feminine is abhorrent behavior. That is the root cause of the problem perpetuated by our patriarchal society.

[vicky_cd99_2]

Jamie,

At the same time you never see any articles on how to get your guy to wear more feminine clothes in girls magazines either. Most women want a masculine male. Again I say most not all.

[shayleetv]

I haven't read all the comments on this thread but I have a question that comes with the original assumption about not being a crossdresser if you have a beard. Does that mean a woman that does not sport a beard likewise can't be a crossdresser. Ive seen a few drag kings who are bare faced but were passable. I guess they are just girls in pants. Go figure!

[Karen kc]

Guilty dude with a beard in a dress!! lol

[bobbimo]

Personally, I wont wear any of my girl clothes until I can look in the mirror and enjoy the girl looking back.
Wearing a pretty dress and a 2 day beard is just not me, and I feel like I have offended the dress and the designer that made it.
Just me
Bobbi

[Sarina Curtis]

Nothing could make me give up my Movember 'stache. The facial hair has little if anything to do with crossdressing. If you like your whiskers just look at them as a different kind of accessory, just like any other hair that may be on your body you can colour it.

[jjjjohanne]

I used to have a school teacher who was a GG. She had a beard that grew down her sides of her face and started to curve under her chin before the hair stopped growing. She was totally not a dude in a dress. However, she could probably kill a man with her bare hands...

[mechamoose]

Dude in a dress? How about a girl stuck in a bull-male body?

It is about who you are, not so much what you look like (or can 'pull off').

<3

- MM

[Tamara Croft]

and I feel like I have offended the dressOMG that made me laugh.... infact I'm still laughing :lol: my OH just asked me what I was laughing at... I said 'I'm laughing at Bobbi and her offended dress' :D

To the OP, I know others have said take no notice, however comments like that 'dude in a dress' is insulting and can hurt more than people think. If people here can't be accepting of others, there is something very wrong there :(

[drushin703]

"Never for society
he shall seek in vain
who his own acquaintance
cultivate of men
wiser men may weary

but the man within never knew
satiety"


This coming Wednesday is Emily Dickinson's birthday but I am sure she didn't write this with crossdresser's in mine. If an un-bearded, smooth presentation is what you think of as overindulgence, then whatever disgust we have
when seeing you gratifies us, not you. Like others have said, be your own person. Do your own thing. Just be mindful and respectful of the protocol that others have followed......dana

[AprilMayy<3]

And so I'm sitting here, dressed, with full blown goatee :brolleyes:

[Seana Summer]

In thinking about this, a thought came to mind. I was once told that the definition of good manners was acting in such a way that those around you would feel comfortable.

For example, if your wife has invited guests from the Ladies Tea and Crumpet Society to your home, it would be consider good manners to not do things to make their visit uncomfortable. For example don't pick your nose (past the first knuckle) with your elbows on the table just as tea is being served.

It is perhaps also bad manners to appear with facial hair and womens clothing in certain situations. However if a kid with purple hair and a nose ring the size of a silver dollar can walk around in public, I can walk around wearing a dress even if I have not shaved.

When in Rome do as the Roman do. I choose not to be in Rome. I choose to be in heels, skirt and nylons as I type this........and I am wearing a mustache and 2 days of stubble...... I hope you are not offended

[CorsetsnPetticoats]

I am also a bearded one most of the time, however when NOvember started, I shaved mine. Just to do the opposite. I like my crossdressed look much better without the beard. However, my wife likes my beard more!

[Mikhaela]

Well said Mikell. I I too was a bit repulsed by that comment you refer to. Like so many have already said ... are all CDers men in women's clothing?
It's not what you look like outside that is so important as who you are on the inside.

[Rachelakld]

Walked past a dude, with beard in a dress last week.
Sorry he wasn't a female.
He was a dude, doing his own thing, being a bloke, while wearing a dress.
I would say, alternative lifestyler.
But absolutely nothing about his manor said "female"

He was happy, and I liked that

[ReineD]

I saw this exact ad, but in magazine format, in the New York Times Magazine Dec 7/14 issue.

http://blog.parrot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/parrot-zik-2-conchita-wurst-muse-450x253.jpg

Conchita Wurst is the new face for the headphone company, Parrot Zik. The caption is "Create Your Own World".

I'm not sure what to think of it. Knowing what I know of advertising, the goal is to create an ad that people will remember so they will recognize the product when they see it ... a sensationalism of sorts. A lot of companies go for controversy in order to accomplish this, and this ad definitely pushes the boundaries.

But is this the message that transfolks want for themselves? To be in a world of their own, rather than being accepted in everyone else's world?

[Leslie Langford]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter one bit how we define ourselves, and we can debate ad infinitum as to what constitutes a "crossdresser", the same way that medieval scholars used to debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. What really matters in the end is how others see us, and in line with the old adage that "perception is reality".

The other point is that we here on this forum are a fairly inclusive bunch, and most are inclined to give our fellow participants some degree of leeway in the way we practice our "craft" - particularly when it is in private and/or in the presence of consenting partners or other adults. So if you want to wear a dress, 6" stilettos, and a sequined Armani gown around your home while sporting a Duck Dynasty or ZZ Top-style beard , then IMHO opinion, go for it. However, when it comes to going out in public, that becomes a bit of a game-changer for me, because then your behavior ("guilt by association") can be reflected back on me in terms of how well I am accepted when out in "Leslie" mode.

Despite much pro-TG education by the media in recent years (ABC and NBC specials on transgender children and their parents, Laverne Cox, Janet Mock, and Carmen Carrera interviews, Barbara Walters specials, the Time Magazine cover story on the "Transgender Tipping Point" etc., etc.), we still represent a little understood mystery to most "muggles", and unfortunately, it is human nature for people to fear and reject what they don't understand - and sometimes violently so.

We are also in the process of a prolonged "re-branding" exercise at the moment, for lack of a better word. Time was, we were "transvestites", with all of its creepy, pervy, fetishistic connotations. Then we morphed into "crossdressers"...a more benign species of weirdos who at least could be trusted (somewhat) to behave properly in the presence of children, although the jury was still out as to whether or not we went into womens' washrooms to get our jollies at the expense of unsuspecting GG's, or simply to do our business there. Now we are lumped in among the "transgender" folk, and as such, the TG activists have seen to it that rather than being defined as something to be feared and reviled, we are now regarded as victims of biology who cannot help being what we are. Part of this narrative is the realization (finally!) that trans people suffer from an extraordinarily high per capita rate of suicide, homelessness, and joblessness, and often lead diminished lives due to this as well as the generalized discrimination that we still face. So yes - some progress has been made overall, but we're still not there yet in terms of full acceptance.

I can't speak for the others here, but I, for one, have a real issue with those among us who choose to go out in public and deliberately present themselves in a way that John Q. Public finds jarring - and that includes those crossdressers who deliberately seek to stand out by presenting as the proverbial "man in a dress" or the like. Sure, flaunt convention, stick it to "the man", and assert your right to self-expression, but don't for one minute presume that you are speaking for me, because you aren't. And don't wrap yourself in the cloak of righteousness and pretend that you are doing this to drive change in outdated societal conventions. In my view, those types of people are simply self-centered narcissists who will do anything to attract attention, and the "man in a dress" schtick is certainly a good way to do this - just like having one's whole body covered by tattoos, multiple piercings, or else dying one's hair (preferably spiked, Mowhawk-ed, or half-shaved off) in every color of the rainbow. Anything to stand out in a crowd...

When I go out in public in "Leslie" mode, I aim to blend in (if not downright "pass"), and try to dress in a manner that is both age-appropriate and respectful of women. This has always served me well in the past, and has even garnered me compliments at times. Yes, I, too, would like to see changes in how we are perceived and accepted by the public at large, but I prefer the non-confrontational Mahatma Gandhi type of approach to achieve this, and win people over as opposed to the in-your-face, Black Panther-style mindset practiced by the "man in a dress" proponents. As the saying goes "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"...

[AlanaG]

We are all entitled to our own opinion. And none of us should take anyone's opinion as gospel. We all have our own reasons for doing what we do. I for one go out in public wearing a skirt with out any other indication that I'm trying to be female. Because I'm not.