Is progression inevitable and endless?

[Jenniferathome]

I have read a number of posts from wives where they fear the seemingly endless progression into cross dressing that they are experiencing with their husband. I think the chief problem is that when you re in a moment, the now, it is hard to get perspective on the issue. I made a graph that I think captures a timeline for the typical cross dresser. We re all in hiding, we reach some breaking point where we have to tell our wife, freedom and fog ensues. The time between phases varies by individual. Could be days or years (hence the perception of endlessness).

What do you think? Does it capture it for your average cross dresser?

[AletaHawk]

Endless progression terrifies me. Heck, just being on this forum has already changed the way I think. While it's great that I've become more accepting of who I am, I'm also finding myself mroe frustrated that I don't have the opportunities to express myself. Where does it stop? I thought I had a line for myself, but I'm already wondering if I made a mistake setting those limits.

I'm guessing I'm not the only one that's been through this?

[JocelynRenee]

Yep. That's a pretty good representation of my life, and I suspect many others as well. The problem lies with the gap between discovery/hiding and acceptance/comfort zone.

When I discovered my comfort zone I did a lot of soul-searching. I came to realize that deep down I always had a pretty clear understanding of my end point. What appeared as escalation was really just me lurching towards a level of comfort I always knew existed. How many years were wasted lying to myself? How much heartache could have been avoided?

I suppose I am lucky to have accepted my place early enough to enjoy the real me, but I can't help but wonder what could have been if I had the courage to cut out the middle.

[JayeLefaye]

hi Jennifer,

I wasn't going to respond, because the graph is aimed at those who came out after they were married, and I came out to my (now) wife on our first date. But I took some time to really think it over, and I realized that the graph pretty much lays out the five year period of being single, prior to meeting my wife, and coming to terms with myself. I went through ALL of those phases, with no one else to answer to, and except for "the low point", which I never had a reason to have, it's pretty accurate. I found my comfort zone, and may have pushed the dial up a little further if I'd stayed single, but i dialed it down for a few years so as to help my wife find HER comfort zone...Now, we're both, in a good way, just kinda zoning out:-)

Jaye

[Rachael Leigh]

Jenn I too told my wife when we married but in reality I was still hiding so yes I've been through a lot on that graph.
I think I'm getting to the comfortable part even if I don't go out but that's more about the SO than what I would like

[Jenny Elwood]

Spot on Jennifer, I recognize a lot of my path on your graph, only difference is I suffered the worst type of reveal by getting caught. You can replace the "hiding" part with the years of "repression" that followed for me though, which inevitably lead up to the "breaking point". The graph would follow the same line though. I would say I'm somewhere between "euphoria ends" and "low point found" at the moment. I, and I suppose my wife as well, have also experienced the feeling of endlessness.

You have obviously done your homework.

[Rachelakld]

Yep pretty good description, happy with the comfort zone but still mowing the lawn to often.

[MatildaJ.]

Nice graph. I wonder if you could put in more before the breaking point? From reading people's stories, it sounds like there's a burst of CD activity during adolescence and then the CDer's interest fades for a while, at least for some people, while they get caught up in dating, marriage, and having children. And then in mid-life, the interest comes back in an unavoidable way, which leads to active lying and then to feelings of guilt and then telling, or else getting caught.

At least from what my husband says, the twenty years I knew him before he came out to me were not full of obsessive thoughts about CDing.

[Jordan-NH]

Well I like anything with graphs. I think my data would overlay well. Unfortunately I'm still more to the left side than I would like. But the GF will be happy that it doesn't have a positive slope.

[NZ_Dawn]

Wow...did you over-hear my wife and I discussing this exact subject last night? Seems that from her point of view (at the start of discusdion) that is exactly what is happening. I cant measure the quantum or when but we both now understand and know that there is that point of plateau or comfort zone. (For me anyway).

[Marcelle]

Hi Jen,

That is most likely an accurate representation of how things have gone for me over the past year. However, I would also have peaks and valleys during the "rationalization" and "comfort zone" time periods as I explored various avenues of my comfort . . . some went well and created a peak, some not so well and created a valley . . . once stabilized the comfort zone was found. Now this is only year one for me so I imagine there will be peaks and valleys yet to come as the "comfort zone" stretches.

Hugs

Isha

[Zylia]

Yep, this graph pretty much sums up my (CD related) life in the last couple of years. Feelings of gender incongruence and rationalisation do cause a few fluctuations every now and then, but my 'line' is pretty stable in the long run.

One can wonder what the Y-axis really shows though. Is it time/money invested in cross-dressing per week? The level of 'femininity'? The amount of body hair lost?

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Nice graph, Jennifer.

Of course, as a wife I'm thinking 'why couldn't the comfort zone be level with the hiding zone and he can go back to just wearing lingerie.' Yep, ever hopeful. But that wouldn't be truthful and this helps a GG understand what is to come.

So, thanks. :)

[Kate Simmons]

Is there such a thing as an "average CDer"? Many of us work with our own individual paradigm. :)

[kimdl93]

Your graph seems a reasonable representation of the phases and trend lines that would be familiar to most of us. The whole concept of progression is, in my mind, more a matter of discovery of things that have always been rather than fundamental change. For someone of my age, it's rather like exposing a fossil from surrounding g sediment. It's always been ther, but unseen. As you pick away, eventually it's fully revealed.

The fear that progression will ever end...that a reasonable, and in the vast majority of cases, needless fear of the unknown.

One other thought, a qualifier. A very small percentage of us are TS. But a fair number of CDrs are emotionally unsettled, even suffering long term emotional pain. I fear that some of us may mistake that emotional high, the shot of endorphins, or whatever, as a relief to emotional problems that are rooted elsewhere.

[Ressie]

I don't know if this represents the average CD or not. Maybe it represents the average married CD that kept it a secret when they got married. I can't relate to the rationalization or low point myself, probably because the euphoria hasn't ended. Oh... must be because I'm single ;)

[Allison Chaynes]

Nice graph, Jennifer, however my experience is that it can be cyclical and we can go in and out and back to certain phases. I have yet to hit my low, and I've been fully open with the wife about Cding for six years. I'd say euphoria has hit and left, and come back more than once. Kinda like how the tgerapist explained to me that the five stages of grief don't becessarliy go in order, and can be repeated.

[Rhonda Jean]

I think it's seen as endless progression because for many it's under such micro-scrutiny. Every microscopic movement is seen as progression. I don't think that's necessarily an SO's attitude. I think many of us observe the same things, and celebrate every move while simultaneously deriding our SO's because it's "no big deal".

There are a million examples of this, but to pick one, let's say you've always worn your hair really short and you decide to let it grow. You're likely to celebrate (internally at least) every little milestone. First it touches the top of your ears, then covers your ears, the back is down over your shirt collar. When it gets to about your chin, you start trying to put it in a ponytail, and wonder how long it'll be before it reaches your shoulders. Then, you've make it! You have truly shoulder length hair. You get a few layers. You get brave enough to color it for the first time. You start playing with a flat iron, then a curling iron, then curlers. Then it's long enough to put in a high ponytail. You try braids and buns. People seeing you from behind start referring to you as maam. Your whole morning routine changes. Even in male mode, you have to spend a half hour on your hair before you go out. Friends who haven't seen you in a while are astonished. You get the feeling that they're talking about you behind your back, and they probably are. Although you never told anybody, what you really wanted was bras strap length hair. That's only 6 inches away. You'll be there in a year. And what difference does it make anyway? Just below the shoulders, bra strap length, what difference does it make? Right?

All this time your SO's is thinking, "When is this going to stop?" One way of looking at this, you did one thing. Let your hair grow out. From another viewpoint, it was a progression of a thousand steps. If you're completely honest with yourself, you know it was a progression of a thousand steps.

At the same time this was going on, other things were changing, too. Pick your favorite flavor. We've all got 'em. Maybe when your hair got long enough to cover your ears, you got your ears pierced. You started off with little gold balls, then a small thin hoop, then a little bigger, then a dangle, then a bigger hoop... you get the drift. That's progress. It wasn't one thing, getting your ears pierced. It was all the things that led up to the earring collection you have now.

Although the progression is certainly not without dips and dives, it's there at least as constant change. Each change unto itself is insignificant. Combined, it's massive. To your SO, you probably downplay it something like, "Hey, so I let my hair grow out! Big deal! Lots of guys have long hair!" All the while you know how significant it was.

I'm 56 years old. I've played all the games. I'm also divorced.

[Bria]

Jennifer, thanks for bringing these ideas forward. I'm still some where on the first up slope, so I'll see if my own experience correlates!

Hugs, Bria

[stefan37]

It's up to the individual. I told my wife on our third date I had a NEED to wear woman's clothes. The fog rolled in and out over the years. Sometimes not returning for many months. A couple years ago for reasons still understand I needed to transition to be comfortable. After 31 years of marriage transition ended the marriage.

Transition is a very difficult process I would not wish on my worst enemy. Transition has however delivered a measure of inner peace. The farther I progress the more comfortable I become, despite the losses incurred. (Which by the way was huge)

[Nadine Spirit]

Love the graph. It does apply directly to me in the context of one who came out after being married. I came out during my relationship and my wife, then girlfriend, knew of everything before or as I did it. But in general terms the graph still applies well enough to me.

To answer the question in the title of the post. No progression is not inevitable or endless.

[Samantha_Smile]

I like the way you presented your idea.
We like logic.

However I'm not sure that it speaks for the 'average' CD or that an 'average CD' even exists.
But I certainly get the point you're illustrating.

[samantha rogers]

I think its a good stab at how things are for a lot of people, Jennifer. But, as Rhonda implies, the devil is in the details, and as Kate asked..."is there an average crossdresser?":doh::daydreaming:
In the time I have been here on this forum alone, I have observed many people on many slightly different versions of this rocky road. I guess all attempts to find commonality are as likely to find success or failure as any attempt to establish differences. But, like with religion, if doing either gives you or anyone comfort then I am all in favor.:battingeyelashes:

[Barbara Jo]

I agree that the graph for the most part mirrors what most CD go through.

I would add that its often been said that often, how far a CD/TC transitions is the opportunities that they have.
"Opportunities" includes how others around them offer support, how their position in life supports them and how well they "pass".

In other words, if you pass easily and those around you support you, it is much easy to progress and, the opposite makes it so much harder.

[DebbieL]

The curve looks about right, however, I think there are similar patterns for both CDs and Transsexuals.

The hard question to answer is "Is my husband transsexual?".
And if it turns out that she is, "How do I accept".

The answers are never easy - and this is why we encourage those who are struggling to see the professional health of a WPATH qualified therapist.

Transition isn't right for everyone - even transsexuals, and often the challenge for the therapist is to determine what would be best for the client at that time.

When confronted with the choice of transition and never seeing my kids again, or being able to be for them as their dad, I had to delay for several years.
I hated being forced to make that choice, but if it had to be made, I didn't want the kids to suffer.

[Confucius]

Nice graph!
I assume that the x-axis is time and the y-axis is dopamine levels. If so, I think its pretty accurate.

It which case your question should be about finding your comfort zone. You know you can always escalate, taking greater risks and sacrificing your male side, to elevate your dopamine levels. However, can to be comfortable with lower dopamine levels. Yes, I think so. Even while your dopamine levels are important for experiencing the thrills, and emotional rush, and sexual gratification, etc... there are other neurotransmitters involved in cross-dressing. One important neurotransmitter is oxytocin. Your oxytocin neurotransmitter is associated with the feeling of comfort, love, and bonding. Even while your dopamine levels will decrease you can still enjoy your oxytocin. I believe this is where you will find your comfort zone.

Just limit your cross-dressing in accordance with your needs and your wife's tolerance. Your wife will gain a sense of security and you will find your comfort zone... Yes, this does mean sacrificing some of the dopamine excitement.

[Michala]

Like all graphs the period between the waves may change for individuals but I would suspect the terminology is very accurate. Like ocean waves they are all pretty much the same. It's only the height and length between each wave that changes dependent on the weather just as each of us is dependent on ourselves and our SO's.

[Teresa]

Jennifer,
My opening post when I joined the forum described my CDing like a rollercoaster ride, now your graph proves it !
The difference is my low point disappeared into a dark hole at the bottom of the graph from which I nearly didn't reappear and up slope should be marked medication zone !

[ReluctantDebutant]

What a great chart. What determined the Y axis? I would say my low point was reached about 3 years ago. I am just now starting into my comfort zone which seems to be devoid of dressing.

[LilSissyStevie]

Like they say: the only things inevitable and endless are death and taxes and I'm not too sure about death.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Jenn, Add a couple more hi&lo points and it would look like mine.

[Katey888]

Jennifer,

I'd totally agree that progression is neither inevitable nor endless... :)

I like the graph as to how it represents a typical scenario for:

A non-TS crossdresser that reveals post-relationship start and has an accepting or tolerant SO

I suspect there will be different sets of curves for TS, non-reveal, non-acceptance, singles and probably some other largeish clusters in our complex community... Now if you can just get a pie chart in there somehow too... ;)

Katey x

[kimdl93]

Preferably cherry...or pecan...or coconut cream...

[Janine cd]

I reached my comfort zone about a year ago and have no desire to explore any further transitioning.

[ReineD]

Nice graph. I wonder if you could put in more before the breaking point? From reading people's stories, it sounds like there's a burst of CD activity during adolescence and then the CDer's interest fades for a while, at least for some people, while they get caught up in dating, marriage, and having children.

Yes, that! Also, I think the Pink Fog peak needs to be quite a bit higher, to then settle down to the middle point between zero and peak.

After the Pink Fog, CDers may be putting on similar clothes, makeup, and shaving just the same when they go out (or dress at home) as they did at the height of Pink Fog, but the thoughts don't seem to permeate their existence as much, or so it seemed to me. Most of the time now my SO can't even be bothered, whereas there was a time when nary an opportunity was missed and it was indeed a top priority.

[heatherdress]

Jennifer - nice chart.

The chart probably depicts a lot of us - but there is obviously no single path or progression which fits everyone. My crossdressing history and progression is quite different. So much depends upon individual situations - age, maturity, living arrangement, occupation, location, economic status, marital status. I suspect there may not be an "indefinite progression" for many who may only have interest in a specific aspect of crossdressing (e.g. - underwear only). Some do not experience hiding or hide all their lives. Some never experience much of a "pink fog".

It does, however, make you think.

[Tina_gm]

It is a good graph overall. Although I think that it has a lot of a stair step type of pattern although overall from a far distance the graph is about right, for most. I do think also though that at certain points later on, things may change, divorce, retirement, kids leaving the nest etc etc, however our circumstances change, then we see a change in the comfort zone status quo. Not that I am anywhere near that, and I have tried hard to not let the euphoria and pink fog states go through the stratosphere. Had I been single when that happened, the endless progression/pink fog spike would be likely sharper and higher for me.

[Annaliese]

Now someone has put it in teams I can understand, Math, make perfect sense now. The endless progression, rationalization, and Comfort zone, x axis, could be put into an odd degree equation, with a local max and a local min for the high and low point. Hiding coming from ( x , y) where x and y are both negative. Thank you.

[KatieV]

The only thing that is endless is a Mobius strip.

[Ally 2112]

With my x wife the only prob was it just kept going up and up .With my last GF it did back off but i did not find my comfort zone until after we broke up

[Seana Summer]

I think this graph represents what many CD go through. My personal graph would be much flatter since I have really had very little "progression" over the years.

[Beverley Sims]

Unlike a lot of habit forming actions I think it is hard to break.
Looking at your graph I feel that you are on the right track.

The initial novelty does wear off and a new interest steps in where you try to refine your actions.
Wives would see it as progression down a bad road.
If you temper your actions a little you do hold the progression back.

The big question is "Where is your comfort zone"?

Find one close to what your wife or SO envisages and you may live happily ever after.

Give and take, cooperation and understanding are the key words here.

Forget tolerance, that is just an unhappy situation.

[Marsha My Dear]

Hi All, what has keyed most of our fights about my CD is 'pushing it too far'. I'm allowed to to some things (legs shaved, toes painted, eyebrows plucked, ears pierced) that are ambiguous about gender when in in public. When my pink fog clears, I realise how exceptionally good I have it. She brings home clothing for me and helps with my make-up on occasion. I've made the decision to live with-in the boundaries we've agreed to. If there's something she wants to change about the arrangement I willingly go along (it usually involves me getting a longer leash). But no more push on my part. Those fights were only outdone by the frank and animated discussions about deception- the worst of the worst. I've found contentment(except I'd like to dress around the house when she's good with it). No more progression here anymore- I'm counting my blessings.

[Giselle(Oshawa)]

if your graph is relative to my situation, then I am at my low point
out to my wife and involved with 2 support groups /clubs and I am
still not happy so I am praying to be in the comfort zone

[Claire Cook]

Jennifer,

What a thoughtful post. I guess we could all make little tweaks in your graph, but I think it covers much of what we go through. For me, it would be a continuously squiggly line that keep going up and up.