Guess I need to vent...

[Elisa Lace]

So well... all this halloween thing has really gotten under my skin for some reason. It might just be the pink fog since I've had an almost home alone weekend, but the thing is that I see all these pics on facebook, threads of halloween outings (you all rock some serious outfits and costumes!) and I'm here kinda trapped in my own house, under my body and facial hair (due to prohibitions from my gf). I mean, I was able to dress up, but being unable to get rid of my hair, my feminine side doesn't feel complete at all. How would I loved to just convince my gf to go to a costume party or something without all the negative weight on the subject. I just feel all this to be unfair somehow.

And now, while writing this down I realize I don't have anyone close to me talk about this or my cd'ing freely, can't really let my fem side breathe, so I guess that's why I'm just ranting here. It's kind of a desperation feeling I've got which I can't quite put into words. I just want to be able to walk that guy/girl continuum somehow, but just can't find the way and I also feel selfish at the same time since I know this is putting some distance between me and my gf even if I've talked about it with her.

Anyway.. I'm not even sure I'm making much sense now. Guess I have a couple of bourbon glasses to blame lol

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Elisa, a costume party with you crossdressed is rarely fun for the reluctant partner who knows you're a crossdresser. It's just a public declaration of something she would rather forget. So you're not on the same page at all with that and you'll have to accept this for now.

I also think it's forgotten here that if you start a relationship with a beard and other masculine attributes, things said woman clearly found attractive about you, you're really asking for trouble removing these things, even temporarily. It's a bit like a super buff body builder immediately letting himself turn fat once the relationship is serious. Women rarely enjoy these changes. Remember, if she liked men without beards and body hair and preferred they wear dresses, you'd have been out on Halloween with her! Did she know about all this from the start? Or later on?

The real question is why are you (or anyone else here, for that matter) having relationships with women who dislike crossdressing??

[Persephone]

Halloween can definitely be a bit rough on those who find themselves in your situation, Elisa.

This is the perfect place to vent.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Beverley Sims]

Elisa,
Tinkerbell has outlined both sides of the story for you and her closing sentence is something you have to consider.
Being controlled by someone else is a recipe for disaster.
Oh! Bourbon does not work well and the solution is not at the bottom of the glass either.

I know and I don't drink. :)

[Vickie_CDTV]

The real question is why are you (or anyone else here, for that matter) having relationships with women who dislike crossdressing??

Remember, the percentage of women who actually like crossdressing is almost zero. This life can be very lonely without some form of love and companionship (I know this all too well!), so in order to have what they need many have to compromise. I don't think I could compromise like that, but I certainly understand why many do. I wish it wasn't this way, but it is what it is.

[Teresa]

Elisa,
You don't say how long you've been in your relationship and how committed you are to it ? I'm not sure if I agree with Tinkerbell on the point of facial hair ! Really you have the right to alter your presentation as a guy, you could say the beard is giving you a skin problem and need to shave it off !
If you're having problems presenting yourself as a guy with your GF, maybe your relationship will get more onesided as it progresses, as for CDing issues you are probably going to be closeted forever !
At the stage you're at tell your GF staight about your needs, you will be happier in the long run ! Please believe me on that one !!
Reading your OP again, you don't say if your GF knows about your dressing ! So do you know what thoughts she has on CDing at all ?

Vickie' I had two consecutive GFs that were OK with my CDing so in my case the figure was two out of three !!

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Really you have the right to alter your presentation as a guy, you could say the beard is giving you a skin problem and need to shave it off

A non crossdresser can do this and get away with it. (unless the girlfriend has a particular beard fetish or something lol)

Once we know you're a crossdresser you can't fool us with such excuses and in fact it becomes all the more painful and insulting as we know you're feminising yourself. Remember, I'm only speaking for those women, like Elisa's gf, who don't like CDing. Anything that even hints at feminisation, even small things like body hair, are enormous to the unhappy partner.

Hence the reason I asked why crossdressers always seem to end up with non-accepting women like Elisa's gf (and me!) Surely there's a better fit than men who want to feminise themselves dating women who love masculinity. How does this keep happening?!? Do opposites really attract? Because it's the same painful story told here, over and over, yet it could be avoided if crossdressers only dated accepting women. And yes, even if that means narrowing the dating pool to only three prospects. Living an authentic life is surely more important than such enormous compromise. Believe me, the non accepting partner feels as much like a fraud as the repressed crossdresser and both can feel like the relationship is built on a lie. I still look at friends who think my H and I are this super great couple and think: 'if only they knew'.

[Marcelle]

Hi Elisa,

I feel your angst but unfortunately this is something only you can resolve. I see this type of post a lot and while I count myself luck my wife fully accepts this in me and looks past the superficial aspects of a relationship (her words not mine before someone goes all ballistic :)) I understand how others will wish to maintain acceptance in a relationship at all costs and all demands. However, I do have to point out . . . it is your body to do with as you please IMHO. Surely your relationship must be built on a more solid foundation than facial and body hair. Oh don't get me wrong, I understand that she may see this as you trying to feminize yourself so a compromise will need to be reached. Perhaps just the beard can go . . . After all beards can be quite uncomfortable (for those who have never had one). So, unless you can live with this angst, I would do some serious talking to your SO and try to strike an accord (body hair stays, beard goes - plenty of guys don't have beards and they don't look girly).



. . . I also think it's forgotten here that if you start a relationship with a beard and other masculine attributes, things said woman clearly found attractive about you, you're really asking for trouble removing these things, even temporarily. It's a bit like a super buff body builder immediately letting himself turn fat once the relationship is serious. Women rarely enjoy these changes.

Tink,

I normally agree in principle with most of the things you write but seriously . . . CDing aside . . . this is as ludicrous as me saying that when a man starts a relationship with a woman who is fit, firm and dresses all girly for her to gain weight, start dressing in sweats and acting less than a supermodel he (the man) has the right to demand she correct these things less he throw her to the curb for a newer more feminine woman. We all start life differently with our respective partners. Yes CDing is a bit of an odd card but if the woman does not want a CDing husband then my advice is move on . . . why try and correct what most likely will not be resolved.


A non crossdresser can do this and get away with it. (unless the girlfriend has a particular beard fetish or something lol) . . . Once we know you're a crossdresser you can't fool us with such excuses and in fact it becomes all the more painful and insulting as we know you're feminising yourself.

Again, you are stating this as if we (CDers) are bad people who are purposely trying to hurt those around us. This is not a choice it is something that has to occur on some level or serious emotional trauma can occur and that will bleed over into any relationship in some form (anger, frustration, depression). Seriously . . . a non cross dresser can do what he wants and a cross dresser has to watch his step? So if you like facial hair and body hair on your man and he (non CDer) tells you he is going to remove it because he wants to get into competitive fitness competitions you are fine with that. But if you know your husband is a CDer and he says the same thing (wants a smooth appearance for competitions) you will demand he doesn't because he is only trying to look girly? This makes no sense to me Tink.

Hugs

Isha

[mykell]

hi elisa,
it is unfair that you cant go out together, all the negativity....society's stigma, what will people think of me being with a CDer, what if i see someone we know, what if....

you do have some one close to talk about this with, your GF...and if she wont listen you have friends here....virtual ones-but friends just the same....
its overwhelming stuff to cope with but it needs to be done......just dont drink and talk.....and get it all worked out before the nuptials.....you'll both be better for doing it....

vent anytime you need....

[sarahcsc]

Hi Elisa,

Of course you can vent. I feel sorry for you especially with the facial hair! Nothing threatens my femininity more than facial hair and I hate them!

Venting manages your feelings for a while (although I doubt the drinking does anything) but you can't expect your feelings to go away if you and your GF don't sort things out. Read the Would You Have Married Your Husband If You Knew He Was A Cross dresser? (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?214458-Would-You-Have-Married-Your-Husband-If-You-Knew-He-Was-A-Cross-dresser-(GG-s-Only)/page2) thread and you will learn that most GGs would NOT have married their current partners if they knew earlier or if they knew what crossdressing entails. So Tinkerbell raised a good question when she asked,


The real question is why are you (or anyone else here, for that matter) having relationships with women who dislike crossdressing??

We can't make all the mistakes in our lifetime so please learn from others who have been through it. Having said that, I know that sometimes we have to make some mistakes ourselves before we know what is right for us. Vent to us if you think it will make you feel better. But you need to be able to speak with your GF too, otherwise, she isn't much of a GF isn't she?

Love,
Sarah

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Elisa, I really hope you can find a way to communicate with your gf so that you're both living a happy balanced life together and not just compromising yourselves into misery. x

[susan54]

I think there are merits on both sides of this discussion. A man should be allowed to change his appearance within a relationship to the extent of removing a beard - a beard can be unpleasant and makes you look older. But if removal really is a relationship disaster - come on, it does not take long to grow back. For anyone over 40 or so removal of body hair is a different thing - it has negative associations - but again - it grows back.

It is one thing to wear skirts and dresses at home. For a partner, seeing her man out in public in a dress can cause real distress and people should not submit someone they love to public distress. Compromise works both ways. I have had partners who don't mind me dressing at home but as soon as they learned of my cross-dressing, sought assurance that I did not go out in public dressed like that. At the time i didn't. Also I would not expect to spend all my home time in skirts and dresses (as I do now) because being in a relationship means doing things for your partner.

I am not currently in a relationship but would not try and hide my cross-dressing from a new partner. As I already have hair-free legs and armpits my naked body will first be encountered like that and it will be explained, and I will insist on spending SOME time wearing what I want, but I will also be happy to spend time being what she wants. If that means not going out then that is OK - compromise, compromise, compromise. Both opinions count, and some things in relationships might not be logical or even fair- it can work if the compromise is equal but not if it is all about you.

[iGenny]

I mean, I was able to dress up, but being unable to get rid of my hair, my feminine side doesn't feel complete at all.

I know that the other replies are more about the relationship side of your post, but I just want to let you know I sympathize about the facial hair.

[Maria 60]

Well one thing is for sure, you came to the right place, this is my favourite place to vent. So go ahead you have great listeners here.

[kimdl93]

It's not selfish to want to express a part of yourself. One might reasonably argue that it's selfish for a GF to place restrictions on you...it's your body hair after all. Relationships are certainly based on compromise, but one would hope they also are based on an appreciation of the whole person and a long term relationship should provide each partner with room for self expression and growth. You and your gf need to discuss this and see if some mutual accommodation can be achieved.

[Tina_gm]

Tink- remember that many of us, definitely me don't really wish to have any type of gender crossdressing issues. So many stories here of the years of denial, repression, trying to make it go away so that we don't have to deal with falling in love with someone who doesn't like our gender issues. And, a vast majority of women will not ever choose it over non cd's. At best, they either have a casual whatever floats for you attitude or works to cope with it. Then there are a good many others who simply will have nothing to do with anything Transgender.

The fact is, there just are not nearly enough women who are out there looking for it, or truly liking it. For me this clearly is the hardest part of being Transgender. It is why so many of us hide lie deny, repress and hate ourselves.

[Nadya]

Elisa,

I've definitely felt like I've needed someone to talk to who've I've developed a close friendship with. It can be especially difficult if you live in a place much more conservative than others. I know many people have already said this but if you ever need someone to chat with on this kind of stuff, you can always message me. It's definitely not fun to feel alone when you are trying to get through a confusing part of your life. :)

[Diane1950]

Elisa, I'm right there with you, having tried to cajole my wife into letting me dress up on Halloween and having been solidly shot down. She knows Diane exists, but does not care to see or, most of the time, hear about her or my "feminine side".

I'm not here for a long rant, but I'm in the same boat with you, having nowhere else to express myself. I'm glad I found this site.

[Kelley]

Elisa
You have a tough situation for sure. I feel that some wives and SOs use the facial hair as a means to insure their CD will not step over the boundaries when they are not around. I'm not saying this is right or wrong it is what it is. I think you need to evaluate your situation and decide if you can live with your urge to express yourself and not be able to express. You have to look at the relationship and decide if maintaining it is more important than your expression. And most important how does it affect your mental health. I firmly believe that selfe-expression in a very important aspect of humanity, we all need it, not just us CD.

Kelley

[Elisa Lace]

Wow... didn't expect this amount of responses. I thank you all for them too. And forgive me if I don't reply in specific to each one of them...

First of all, context: my gf has been aware of my cd'ing since the second month of our now 3 year and 8 months relationship. For the first 3 years though it was a DADT thing... she knew, she didn't like it and she wanted it to be buried from sight. We broke up on march due to a series of problems, my cd'ing among them. We got back together two months later after having a deep talk about it, mainly the CD'ing subject in which I told her that while I didn't need it to be an "in your face" thing whith me dressing up in front of her or have sex while in femme or whatever since I know it just isn't fair for her. I told her I needed some leeway at least to talk about it more freely. Now almost everytime I get some fem clothing article, I will buy something for her too (recently ordered a bra set for her and she knew and asked about mine with no problems). She made it clear though that she didn't want me to get rid of my body hair. The beard is something she and I like though since it makes me look somewhat my age, instead of giving me a 17 year old face, but which I told her I would like to shave sometimes. That part of the conversation fell to the side somehow and it's now a gray area.

So, moving on with the matter, as Tinkerbell said, no excuse will make her actually believe that I somehow *had* to shave. Unless that is, they make me do it at work (I've survived 3 months now with a beard and no problems now though so it will make her suspicious anyway).

I always think that this all might be different if I was more sure about my CD'ing back in the beginning of the relationship and would have brought up the subject in a more possitive way instead of presenting it as some kind of drug addiction or alcohol dependency lol. Guess I'll never know.

So anyway, compromises must be made if we both care about each other, that's for sure, the thing that hits me though is that not even on halloween, a time for fun in which everyone just pushes it can I opt for anything somewhat feminine since that will sure get her "spidey senses tinkling". To be honest though, I didn't even bring up the possibility of doing it this time (since I had a negative from her on another occasion). Can't say I don't understand her or that I am mad at her, that would be really selfish from my part, it just feels like a struggle.

So I do think a conversation is at hand... not sure when, not sure how. Guess time will tell, but I'm not really thinking on moving on with our relationship to a different level before getting the subject clear as a glass of water. I've already read too many stories about it to make that mistake. ]

Oh, and lastly, I wasn't drowning my problems in bourbon, It's just that I love honey flavoured bourbon and two glasses are enough to get me tipsy lol. Thanks for the worries on that matter though! :)

Thanks again everybody for your views and opinions :)

[Tina_gm]

Good for you Elise that you are trying to look at the big picture. That I am sure is what keeps me sane amongst the whole CDing thing. It can be confusing as heck. Life has all kinds of struggles, and we compromise and sacrifice much of what we desire, not just CDing but of all that we desire. We do so for a greater good. I look at CDing in the same context. I strive to balance out everything in life. My gender issues are among all the struggles , sacrifice and compromise I make.

[CarlaWestin]

Yea, so, once again, the classic portrayal of women that lay down the rules of, "These are the rules for me allowing you that coveted privilege of being with me!"
Tink, I agree. Why would any man cower and do the, "Anything you say, Honey. Because I Loooooooove You."
Right. That's not all I'm shaving!

[Katey888]

Well done Elise also... :hugs: I don't think you're being unreasonable about this at all - relationships are about compromise and while our little passion offers tougher negotiations than most, if you're already out to your GF there should be give and take both ways.

I also don't get the beard thing... so if I met my wife when I had long hair and a beard that has to stay for ever...? :BS:

I don't think so...

I do feel sure you would have a lot to gain by having some local support but in not being able to magic that up from nowhere, your best bet is to just come back here and vent... you know you'll always get some friendly and understanding ears.. with people attached... :D

Katey x

[Andy66]

The real question is why are you (or anyone else here, for that matter) having relationships with women who dislike crossdressing??

Tinkerbell said it way more kindly than I could have. I spent five years of my life with a control freak who would always argue with me about my clothes, so its a sore spot for me. Do you tell your girlfriend what to wear or what to shave? Im guessing she would have some choice words for you if you tried.

[docrobbysherry]

Elisa, I don't choose to comment on your situation with your SO. Other than to say we all walk different paths and dealing with our dressing/gender issues is difficult enuff without it affecting other folks.

However, I CAN tell u this. I attended half a dozen public events in female costumes this Halloween. And, never had to shave off my beard and stash! Including one big event rite in my home town. (Photo)

For those that like their shrubbery AND anonymity? Consider a mask next Halloween!:devil:

235280

[Sonya]

Hi Elisa, I think you have a good head on your shoulders and you will sort your relationship with your GF one way or another. Along the way mistakes would be made but hey that’s part of living and learning. We all know that denying this part of yourself is not going to work, you first have to work out what level of cross dressing would you be happy with in the near future and further down the years and communicate these with your GF and find out what she would be happy with. The problem is dynamics of our life and circumstances constantly change with that our and our partner’s desires and expectations change as well. I am out of a long marriage due to many issues including my gender expression. When I was in my relationship, I never did any kind of body hair removal and maybe I was clean shaven few days a month. I still love some facial hair in boy mode, what really hurt me the most was after my wife found out about my cross dressing the way she would come up so close to my face (when kissing and hugging) and I just knew that she was examining my face to see any trace of make up after I had a clean shave. I don’t blame her for opting out of our relationship, credit to her she just didn’t like it or wanted to deal with it and she had enough of her own issues to deal with and I wish her the best. For what is worth having a loving partner is awesome but I need and want the freedom of expressing myself without feeling guilt and shame.


The real question is why are you (or anyone else here, for that matter) having relationships with women who dislike crossdressing??
Tinkerbell I think most of us here have a LOVE/HATE relationship with cross dressing especially earlier in our lives. I think you know some of the answers to your question. In summary most here genuinely believed that they could suppress and got rid of cross dressing in our lives and we are more than just cross dressers; most of us are good parents, providers and have good morals. Most of us are more than happy with our male expression and role in our community. I really think the new generations cds will be a lot more wiser in relationships than us (lets say pre GOOGLE generation) with all the information readily available, and I sincerely wish no one experiences what you or my ex wife went through. I said my SORRY to my ex wife, I can not do much more, life has to move on...

[Melissa_59]

... my body and facial hair (due to prohibitions from my gf)...

Seriously? Do you prohibit her from wearing anything other than mini skirts and six inch heels everywhere she goes? Do you prohibit her from wearing underwear when she's wearing those skirts?

Elisa, it's your body and your choice. If you have someone prohibiting you from dressing how you want or shaving if you want, you SERIOUSLY need to reevaluate that relationship. If you tried to do that to her she'd rebel. She wouldn't let you do that to her, why do you let her get away with it? And if it's one of those "make or break" things in your relationship, your relationship is in serious trouble.

SERIOUS trouble.

You two need to discuss this, because this isn't right.

~Melissa

[Lorileah]

Once we know you're a crossdresser you can't fool us with such excuses and in fact it becomes all the more painful and insulting as we know you're feminising yourself.


Sorry Tink, love ya but... wow So everything from point A on will be scrutinized by the SO as possible CDing activity? How about if the CD goes almost bald and decides to shave their head. Now we can see how this could be more comfortable but would the SO think "You did it to wear a wig"? What if they decided they wanted to take up a new hobby...say the stereotypical cooking or sewing? It seems that if the SO doesn't like the CDing, the CD is sort of between a rock and hard place forever.

Isha already covered the fact that people change. Beards get grey and don't look good. Eyebrows get bushy. Faces get wrinkled. All of these may require some sort of "correction". After all...hair on the back wasn't there when you were 23 and now at 50 yo look like a silverback gorilla.

I have been here long enough to know that either fear of being alone or honest love on the CD's part will keep them in a not ideal relationship. Sometimes hurting is the only feeling you can have in a relationship and you stay there because it is better than feeling nothing at all. We see this with a lot of relationships, especially with women who are in abusive situations. I agree the best choice is to walk away. That is the ideal choice but it often isn't that easy when you have been together for awhile (thus why I say tell early tell often).

I feel for the OP. I really does suck to be where you don't want to be. But venting here may make it more tolerable

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Elisa, You are way to young to let your body be controlled by someone else.

[Sonya]

It seems that if the SO doesn't like the CDing, the CD is sort of between a rock and hard place forever.



I think this really summarises the harsh reality :sad: but regardless the OP should not lose all hope, somethings are worth fighting for and people's likes and dislikes can change with time, life experience and knowledge. There are no guarantees in life and none of us can predict the future we just have to choose our path and see where it leads us.

[MatildaJ.]

Crossdressers always seem to end up with non-accepting women like Elisa's gf (and me!).

Not all CDers end up with non-accepting women. There are also many women like me who don't love the CDing and wouldn't look for it in a mate, but who can accept it as part of a whole package that is appealing. I put up with my husband's CDing like I put up with his bad puns. And he doesn't expect me to adore either habit.

I think CDers should look for women who accept that real life is different from the "happily ever after" promised by Disney movies; who have unconventional needs of their own; and who appreciate that gender roles aren't set in stone.

[Allisa]

Elisa, I had to read your 2 posts at least 2 times and you said that you liked the beard and looking at your profile pic you are clean shaven did she not know you then? Also you said that you presented you CDing as a form of addiction or dependency a bad light to say the least I believe you are having a problem with your CDing which you passed on to your girl and now you want her acceptance. Sorry for being so blunt but this is just my take on your post and I am probably way off base and far from an expert but please feel free to post anytime it's good to vent and this is a good place to do it. Good-Luck.

Allisa(Lisa)

[Tinkerbell-GG]

It seems that if the SO doesn't like the CDing, the CD is sort of between a rock and hard place forever.


It seems that way, doesn't it? Especially if the partner is less than thrilled to have a crossdressing boyfriend like Elisa's clearly is, though time can temper all this if both parties can find an agreeable balance. And I had a longer think about this body hair issue and I realised it's probably a way for a wife/gf to feel some sense of control over something that scares her. There's probably an element of hope that body hair makes escalation more difficult, and maybe for some it's also compensating for some of the attraction that was lost upon discovering her partner dresses. If a woman starts seeing her bf/H as too 'girly', it's possible the beard helps with these intrusive thoughts?

But Elisa is right to talk with her and figure out what's going on. I was where Elisa's gf once was and I admit I still balk a little when my H changes something physically, even temporarily (which is all he does) but I can now take a deep breath and remind myself that it's nothing more than other men do and not some pathway to transition (body hair might also bring this worry up!), that these things come and go with the trends, and below it all is still my masculine, loving and slightly annoying H, lol. But Elisa's gf is still in the early days and despite some of the amazing acceptance stories we read here, the journey for many others is far less simple. I hope you work things out, Elisa, even if this means you're not destined for a long future together. There is someone out there who is x

[DebbieL]

Elisa,
You bring up an issue that is too common to just leave sitting.

Your GF claims she loves you, yet she can't accept something so important that it's tearing you apart, sending you for "A couple bourbon glasses".

Suppose you were transsexual, would she stop loving you? If that were true, did she ever actually love YOU, or just an image you created.

Your next big question is whether you want to spent your next 30-40 years with someone who can't allow you any degree of your feminine side, won't allow you to shave, and more.

You may be a cross-dresser, but you are also transgender, maybe not transsexual, but still, there is a part of you that needs to be allowed to live, or you will die.

If you had a disease with a 30% mortality rate, a 70% morbidity rate, and high risk of permanent adverse side effects, and you could be 100% cured with some pills, and maybe a surgery, would you GF expect you to die?

30% of all transgenders commit suicide before they are 30. Half try to commit suicide. 70% become drug addicts and/or alcoholics. Of those who transition, at least with HRT, 95% report being happier, healthier, and more productive.

You language also sounds a bit like domestic abuse. You're a psychologist, you know the pattern. The perp finds ways to tear away the victim's self esteem, pushing them to feel shame, guilt, fear, and that they are unworthy. Then they can take control of the victim, force them to do things that make them even feel even more guilt, shame, and fear.

Would you rather spent the next 30 years of your life with a woman who hates you, because you are a cross-dresser and transgender, or would you rather have a woman who loves you because you are transgender? Change is hard, letting go of the past, the familiar, is the hardest part. Even when it's ugly, we'd rather cling to familiar garbage than give it up so we can fill the space with wonderful people, places, and things.

[Stephanie47]

It's refreshing to have Tinkerbell on this site. She offers a woman's perspective of one who is not too thrilled with a cross dressing husband. I said husband, and, not boyfriend. If you, the cross dresser, are so entrenched into cross dressing you are only on a course of misery. Misery for you and your girl friend. Hopefully, you do not have a child(ren) with the woman. You're into the belief you can have your cake and eat it too! Well, it's not going to happen. You're going to butt heads with her. And, if you marry her, it will get worse for both of you. If you were up front with her before really getting entangled, then, I foresee a lot of turmoil. Any woman who thinks she likes what she sees except for what she feels she can change, well.....just run away.

Yes, a girl friend or a wife will know and may feel going out in public is nothing sort of rubbing her face in cross dressing. I tend to be a realist and not a dreamer. I do not do things that upsets my wife. Perhaps you and your girl friend need to have that "talk."

[Marcelle]

Stephanie . . . seriously. You truly believe that we are all so irreprehensible that we should not dare to seek a relationship or have children. My wife is fully supportive . . . does that make her flawed. I am glad that you have found solace in your compromise to do whatever you are told. However, there are those of us who will seek to have a loving relationship with a caring SO and seek compromise as the way ahead.

Isha

[Stephanie Morgan]

I have to say I completely understand the OP's feeling of angst over presenting "en femme" with facial hair. Whenever I dress as Stephanie, I have to shave completely or it just does not feel right. As for the relationship with the girlfriend, I wish I could say something to help. Everyone has to determine their own path and what will or will not work for them. I do applaud the OP for deciding to not take the relationship to the next level until these issues are resolved with the girlfriend. I wish you the best on your journey and hope it is a happy one.

PS...Like so many others have said, if you cannot vent anywhere else, you can always come here. Its one of the reasons I love this place!!

Hugs
Stephanie M.

[Elisa Lace]

Elisa,
You bring up an issue that is too common to just leave sitting.

Your GF claims she loves you, yet she can't accept something so important that it's tearing you apart, sending you for "A couple bourbon glasses".

Suppose you were transsexual, would she stop loving you? If that were true, did she ever actually love YOU, or just an image you created.

You language also sounds a bit like domestic abuse. You're a psychologist, you know the pattern. The perp finds ways to tear away the victim's self esteem, pushing them to feel shame, guilt, fear, and that they are unworthy. Then they can take control of the victim, force them to do things that make them even feel even more guilt, shame, and fear.


Thanks for your reply Debbie, but that line of thought seems to be somewhat extreme (maybe the bourbon phrase just gave my first post a much negative feeling than how it really was). The point is that I know for a fact she does love me, but there IS after all a big boulder between her and myself. As far as I'm concerned, she IS trying to cope with it even if that means for her to be all restrictive in some aspects which relate to my crossdressing. She could perfectly be a jealous person, or an unking b*tch, but she's caring in everything BUT this aspect of myself which implies a big piece of beef to digest.

Guess what I want to say is that, while I AM struggling with the expression of my feminine side, I do so so she can somehow be able to manage her own struggle as well. She probably is asking herself if she can find someone who isn't a "perverted/mentally ill" dude as I'm asking myself if there is a girl who will enjoy applying makeup to her man. I could probably just walk away and dismiss her for not being able to deal with my problems, but what about her problems?

I think we crossdressers may *sometimes* fall into this "she should love me the way I am" and we end up being kinda self centered on ourselves and our struggle in the way a teenage kid would do... Kinda the way our feminine self grows from wearing 10 inch high stilettos to get to a point in which flats fit just fine, we also have to deal with this teenage girl inside of us and her hormone induced tantrums.

I do appreciate your thoughts though Debbie :)

Thanks again girls for your views, insights and support! It's really appreciated and it definitely helped me getting over this little "teenage crisis".

[ChrissyW1]

I'm another one who just doesn't feel right trying to go femme with facial hair -- I kept facial hair for over 20 years, even over the objections of my first wife, as a sort of suppressive measure to stop my dressing desires. Now, my second wife, who knows and tolerates my dressing actively likes me bearded, but she's tolerated me going clean-shaven because it allows me pleasures. Ahh, the vagaries of life...

[mykell]

Wow... didn't expect this amount of responses.The beard is something she and I like though since it makes me look somewhat my age, instead of giving me a 17 year old face, but which I told her I would like to shave sometimes. That part of the conversation fell to the side somehow and it's now a gray area.

what some here would do to have a 17YO canvas to work with, we do everything we can to look younger, you should enjoy this part of yourself as it will fade as you age....i have just made some conversation time with my wife from a DADT relation so that their are no gray areas....


I always think that this all might be different if I was more sure about my CD'ing back in the beginning of the relationship and would have brought up the subject in a more positive way instead of presenting it as some kind of drug addiction or alcohol dependency lol. Guess I'll never know.

so now you know and have much more information at hand and if like me you have learned more about yourself and the urge to dress and present feminine here you can now educate your GF and share that information with her and it should presented in a transgendered format as something that is not going away, there is no TG anonymous groups but their is AA.....its different then you knew about at that time......

[Judith96a]

I also think it's forgotten here that if you start a relationship with a beard and other masculine attributes, things said woman clearly found attractive about you, you're really asking for trouble removing these things, even temporarily. It's a bit like a super buff body builder immediately letting himself turn fat once the relationship is serious. Women rarely enjoy these changes. Remember, if she liked men without beards and body hair and preferred they wear dresses, you'd have been out on Halloween with her! Did she know about all this from the start? Or later on?

Seriously, Tinkerbell?? So if, on my wedding day I'm sporting a dodgy 70s mullet and a long beard woe betide me if I ever cut the hair or shave off the beard? And especially so if my wife knows that I'm a cross dresser and doesn't approve? That's rather controlling don't ya think? Perhaps Lady Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham was correct when she said on Downton Abbey last night, "Men don't have rights" ;)



The real question is why are you (or anyone else here, for that matter) having relationships with women who dislike crossdressing??

I can't speak for anyone else but, funnily enough, I love her! When I met her and married her I thought that the cross dressing was a thing of the past; that it was done, finished, history! And, truth be told, my own dislike for cross dressing was, at that time, pretty strong. Several years into our marriage I discovered that the cross dressing wasn't a thing of the past and never would be!
I honestly think that it's a real toss-up as to who has more trouble understanding this cross dressing "thing", those of us who cross dress or our (perhaps long-suffering) wives! I certainly struggle to understand it.

Elisa,
Feel free to vent. I don't have the facial hair issue to deal with (at least not in the same way as you - I wouldn't mind growing a beard for a while but 'er indoors won't hear of it, says that she'll refuse to feed me until I shave it off!) - in my case it's furry limbs! But yes, I understand - it's frustrating and limiting. And, sorry, I've no answers. Just talk and see where that leads!

Best
Judith

[Eringirl]

Hi Elisa. Glad you posted, vent away! We all need to do that sometime, and this is a good place, with so many caring people. You will certainly get a great number of opinions and perspectives which is a good thing. Remember, one size does not fit all. Each situation is unique. I don't speak for all CD's/TG's, just as others don't speak for all GG's, CD's, SO's etc. But you will usually find something/soneone that resonates with you.

As for the body hair, that, to me, is such a personal thing. I mean....really??? If my wife was a brunette when we married and I like brunettes, and she changes her hair colour to blonde do I kick her to the curb?? That is just ludicrous. Her body, her decision. Half the guys at my gym have no body hair. Some have removed it at the behest of their SOs. Some on their own. A few were given No No's from their wives so they could remove their body hair, some chucked them as they said, "no friggin' way, my choice".

We, at least I, didn't choose this. At times I feel more like it was thrust upon me, leaving me to deal with it. What fun...not. :Pullhair: We all have our individual situations and deal with it in various ways.But one thing that seems to be a common thread is communication and access to a place/person to speak to about it. Having said that...I am off to another session with my therapist this morning. A great way to spend your birthday...sigh.

Keep in touch with us!!

Erin

[Brianna_H]

Be yourself first and foremost. Love will follow. Is your love for your partner as conditional as hers is for you? You have to decide what you want more, a partnership with benefits or acceptance and twue wuv? Believe in yourself.

[Elisa Lace]

Thanks a lot girls for your support! :)