New understanding for wives of CDs

[Dorit]

I had an experience that really gave me empathy for wives that do not accept their husband's en femme. My wife and I had a costume idea that we wanted to try at our at home; Bonnie and Clyde from the 1967 movie. Of course I would be Bonnie, and my wife Clyde. Well, after 45 years together I had never seen my wife present "in male" and I was upset when I saw her. I did not the least bit like how she looked, as a matter of fact, it made me very uncomfortable, and I could not wait until she took off the costume and returned to her normal, womanly appearance! I would never want to see her dress as a man again! So I can completely understand those SOs who do not want to see their husband dressed as a women.

On the other hand, I can sympathize with those here that have a non accepting SO and the pain it must cause. I have the most accepting, encouraging, wife you could ever imagine! Has anyone else had a similar reaction to seeing their wife dress as a man?

[Tinkerbell-GG]

I'm just always perplexed that crossdressers can't see our POV more easily. I guess a love for femininity can cloud the obvious fact that women love masculinity just as much. You got a glimpse of my world Devorah, but imagine your wife dressing like this on regular occasions for the rest of your life and now you understand why I no longer participate in my H's dressing. I don't think I'd still be married if I did! :)

[Katey888]

Interesting perspective Devorah - probably a real nightmare for many of us... :eek:

No - I've never experienced it... nor would I probably want to... :straightface:

And Tinks, I think many, many of us see your POV - and many of us would can the whole barmy thing if we could... but it's not like we have a choice about whether we do it, although the extent to which some of us choose to do it is probably a different thing... and that is one reason why my wife will probably never be told...

:)

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Hi Devorah,

I can't say I had that exact experience. On a distant Halloween planet long before Isha, my wife and I went to a party in reverse gender mode (her suggestion not mine) she was a male pirate (beard, eye patch, etc) and I was a bar wench. While I am sure on some deep level I enjoyed my role I can't say I looked at horror at my wife as I knew below the costume she was still her and the costume would come off at the end of the night. Now if my wife suddenly took up wearing guy clothes, sporting a costume goatee, using a deep voice and stuffing her pants . . . how would I feel? I am not going to lie and say . . . "Oh I would immediately accept that on all levels as she accepts me". What I can say is that I consider myself a reasonable person and while I might be put off at first (as my wife was initially by me) I would take the time to get to know the new her and I am sure I would find "her" below all male trappings much the same way she has found "me" below all the female trappings. IMHO the person does not change . . . just the presentation. :)

Hugs

Isha

[Dorit]

It is hard for me to completely understand or make sense out of the fact that I had such an extreme negative reaction to my wife dressing as a man, while she has such a positive attitude about me as a women. For me, if think it has to do with how emotionally I am supported and attached to her all these years, in all her femininity. For her, she has always known me as a sensitive, loving man with a deep streak of femininity in his personality. So for her, me presenting as a women doesn't radically change who I have been all those years. Just my thoughts for now, she also reviews these posts.

[Rachael Leigh]

Devorah a very interesting observation and I dont think I would like my wife doing the same either. I think for the CD one of our main reasons for dressing is we love the feminine look and even to an extent we love it in our wives as well, so to see her look as a man well that just throws us off.
So yes it helps that if we can put ourselves in the reverse and see what she sees in us then its a good way to look at things especially for those like me who's wife doesnt care for the fem me.

[Isabella Ross]

To play the devil's advocate, GGs crossdress all the time -- with impunity. Many women wear men's shirts and jeans, manly footwear and sweat pants; tie their hair back severely or wear it very short; forgo makeup. My own wife goes this sometimes, despite being a real girly girl most of the time. Many of you are married to women who present themselves like this all of the time. I realize this is not the same as a GG presenting herself as a man via an elaborate costume of the sort that Devorah is referring to, but think about it...it's pretty much crossdressing, or at least straying away from the feminine presentation that most of us got used to seeing while we were growing up. Do I, or do you, find women who choose to present themselves as manly and downplay their femininity repulsive? I can only speak for myself, but I don't. I just think that we get way to hung up on this...

[carahawkwind]

My wife and I did a gender swap halloween costume this year, her suggestion, definitely wasn't into how she looked, especially the fake facial hair, without that it might have been ok enough though. I felt a bit guilty because she is generally very supportive of my dressing.

[Stephanie47]

I do not agree at all with Bridgette's perspective that women cross dress all the time. Yes, there are styles of women's clothing that may be copycats of men's clothing. Yes, I see many heterosexual women who wear jeans and flannel shirts and they may even wear work boots. How are they acting? Are they trying to emulate men? No, I can see the feminine woman and not a woman trying to be a guy. My daughter when she was younger on occasion did buy men's jeans because the designers of women's jeans never would put pockets on the jeans so a young women could put a slim wallet in a pocket. Sensible. But, if you looked at her, the rest of her was all feminine women. There was no attempt to deceive society. There was no attempt to take on the personna of a male. That's the problem with your analysis. Heterosexual women may wear styles that designers co-opted from the male clothing racks, but, the women are NOT trying to pass themselves off as guys.

Me? When I decide to be en femme, I am trying to at least present the illusion that I am a women. I can't figure it out! My wife said to me decades ago that she totally lost the concept of a guy (me) cross dressing when she found a red Vanity Fair bra and said, "Why would a guy wear a bra when he has nothing to pack into it?" Valid question.

I never saw my daughter when wearing men's jeans for the pleasure of having a pocket to put her slim wallet in then "roll up and pack a sock down the leg of her jeans!"

As far as the Halloween gig goes, I suspect Devorah may still have some lingering troublesome thoughts of a guy cross dressing, even with an accepting wife. The wife may be more accepting of his cross dressing than he. Next Halloween I'd suggest the couple go as "Double Mint Twins" of the old chewing gum commercial. Then both spouses will be ultra feminine.

[Kate Simmons]

Although we do have our transmasculine guy friends here, the fact seems to be that most women have no desire to be a man or even look like one. That seems to indicate that being a woman is the way to go, not from any sense of "easiness", far from it as most women lead very busy and much fulfilled lives, especially in view of family and friends.The smart guy if he has any "moxie" whatsoever wants to get in on some of that fulfillment, even if it's only the "glitter" part. That is the least of being a woman, however, when considering the fulfillment factor. :)

[larry07]

My wife's usual attire is jeans and t-shirt or sweat shirt and athletic shoes. She never uses makeup or paints her nails and she has short hair. She is not crossdressing; she wears what she is comfortable in and what is appropriate for the activities she participates in. This doesn't make her any less feminine or less of a woman. She and I both consider ourselves feminists and believe that women don't need to fit the stereotypes created by men in order to keep them in "their place". Pants are not gender specific. Neither are skirts (Ask any Scotsman).

[Lorileah]

For me, if think it has to do with how emotionally I am supported and attached to her all these years, in all her femininity.

Can I say BINGO?!?. Change one word then you have what a lot of women think of TGs

[Isabella Ross]

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with me about GGs crossdressing, you're missing my point, which is that we just get way to hung up on this. What's wrong with seeing a GG present herself in a masculine or a less feminine way? Absolutely nothing; and I love looking at them as much as I love looking at a well-dressed, feminine GG (well, almost). Similarly, I think everyone, including GGs, shouldn't be too hung up on seeing a man present himself in a feminine way. After all, it's just the wrapping on top, isn't it? And finally, I'll put it out there again: some GGs DO like to downplay their femininity and embrace a more masculine look...they just do it in a more subtle way than the average tgurl attempting to downplay their masculinity.

[CONSUELO]

When a woman is attracted to a man who turns out to want to spend a lot of time dressed and acting like a woman, it is a deep shock. That is why I am strongly in favour of people knowing themselves before they commit to another person. Honesty and knowledge early in the relationship would prevent a lot of the situations described in numerous posts on this site. The more we know about ourselves, our sexual needs and how they might evolve over time, the better we can avoid many of these stressful and unfulfilling relationships. I really like the Internet and sites such as this that make a lot of information available to young people who find themselves liking to cross dress but don't know the full implications of their deep desires.

[Tina_gm]

Tis one of a few reasons why I do not push for my wife's participation. Another big one was that I did not disclose my gender issues until after marriage. I feel a sense of responsibility because I could not bring myself to be comfortable enough to divulge my issues and desires, when shortly after getting engaged she point blank sat down and said to me " is there anything I need to know before we get married." I took a pass on this question. So between the fact that I would not be in any way thrilled if my wife was to dress in guy clothes, or make changes that would make her more masculine and how I feel about my own responsibility in not telling her about this side of me, I do not push for her participation.

[NicoleScott]

I could understand Devorah's reaction if the wife was really crossdressing, but she was just wearing a costume - big difference. Most definitions of crossdressing include a motive (sexual, emotional...), not just the wearing of the clothing. Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire were not crossdressing as they were not driven as we know crossdressers are. They wore a disguise. Not a costume, but not crossdressing nonetheless.
Knowing that, I don't think I would have had the same reaction. I hope I would be as tolerant/accepting/supportive as my wife if she was really driven to crossdress.

[sometimes_miss]

Hi Devorah; while I understand how you feel, and thereby, how women feel about it, unfortunately for a lot of us here, you're 'preaching to the choir'. Many of us are very well aware of the difficulties people in general have about separating what we wear, with who we are. So I, for one, would have no trouble having a girlfriend who liked to dress up and play around behaving like a guy, or whatever she imagined it would be like to be a guy. I'm one of those crossdressers who doesn't feel the need to separate male and female feelings; I don't have a so called other, female personality that I change into when I dress in girl clothes, and change back again when I take them off. In fact, I'd support a girlfriend's desire to play dress up as a guy, because that way she'd be able to get a better idea of what it's like, and what it ISN'T!

[Matia]

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with me about GGs crossdressing, you're missing my point, which is that we just get way to hung up on this. What's wrong with seeing a GG present herself in a masculine or a less feminine way? Absolutely nothing; and I love looking at them as much as I love looking at a well-dressed, feminine GG (well, almost). Similarly, I think everyone, including GGs, shouldn't be too hung up on seeing a man present himself in a feminine way. After all, it's just the wrapping on top, isn't it? And finally, I'll put it out there again: some GGs DO like to downplay their femininity and embrace a more masculine look...they just do it in a more subtle way than the average tgurl attempting to downplay their masculinity.

the thing is, women wearing men's fashion manage to style it in a way it still shows her feminine side. They only take some maleish clothes and make it to work for them. We don't do that with female clothes, we want to blend, we want to be taken as another girl and that's a reason why so many CDs over do it.

I don't think that's a problem, it's just that it's not the same at all.

About the whole topic - just my two cents. Femininity and Masculinity and Androgynous way are different things, all people prefer one or the other to some degree. Basically, if you like femininity you probably won't enjoy seeing your gf/wife loose it, but personally I always look for girls, that like femininity at least to some degree, and I look for this before I start any relationship. In this case when I turn into me, the girl I am with takes it positively, I don't think it's fair to me or to someone I should be with, to be in a relationship where this just doesn't work. So I try the girl I am interested in get to know both sides of me before we move it further with the relationship and then crossdressing is not really an issue, basic relationship things are ;)

[Cheryl T]

Never had that experience. My wife has done all kinds of costumes and none have ever bothered me.
I suppose it's just in my nature that I am accepting of the differences that we all possess and never been judgmental in that regard.

[Anna H]

my first really serious girlfriend had some guy-ish qualities about her.
the influence of her father could be noticed....they way she moved
and talked. i did love her just the same

i wouldn't like my wife to dress man-ish, but she's a real girly girl
and wouldn't want to anyway. we both like girly stuff....♥

i'm just not attracted to guy things at all. else, i'd be out catching
bears and snakes and rassling them into submission. it's all just too
dirty for me. too may bugs involved. i'd rather be shopping.

:)

[Nadine Spirit]

the thing is, women wearing men's fashion manage to style it in a way it still shows her feminine side. They only take some maleish clothes and make it to work for them.

Have none of you actually seen FtM cross dressers? They are out there. I frequently point them out to my wife. And no, they are not just fem women wearing a traditional masculine item, they are cross dressing. They are dressing as men and emulating men. It does in fact happen. As far as women wearing men's clothes and continuing to act like women, I do the same thing in reverse. I occasionally wear women's clothes and go out as a man. Who do you think get's more looks? I think I do. But I could be wrong.

To the OP - I have seen my wife dressed as a man in the same scenario you described. We went as each other one Halloween. Did I find it disturbing? Nope. I was not totally put off. I knew what she had going on underneath it all. And that is kind of what our particular agreement surrounds. We support each other in what each other wants to wear and how one wants to present oneself, as long as we don't physically alter our "bits" we are accepting of each other's choices.

[Beverley Sims]

Not with my wife but with others before I was married.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

The smart guy if he has any "moxie" whatsoever wants to get in on some of that fulfillment, even if it's only the "glitter" part.

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of it this way, but sort of like wanting to be included in our 'club', even just for a bit? I guess men really can be excluded from all things feminine, whereas we girls have well and truly broken the masculine barriers. And we do have some awesome clothing choices.

I often feel I don't learn anything new here any more, Kate, so thanks for the interesting perspective, and the brain workout :)

[Kate Simmons]

My pleasure Tink. You have interesting perspectives yourself. ;):)

[Babbs]

Nicole, you're right it was just a costume with no meaning, emotion or drive behind it. Nothing that would concern me at all.

[CherylFlint]

Gee whiz, relax.
No big deal. Like making a mountain out of a mole hill?
"The world's a stage and each must play a part".
Don't take everything so damn seriously.
Learn to sieze the moment and...
ENJOY LIFE! HAVE FUN! RELAX!
I tell you, being superfiscial doesn't do any of us any good. We're the same INSIDE irrespective of what we put over our hides.
Take a deep breath and let it out slowly. There. Feel better? Relax, it just isn't that big a deal getting upset about.
And I agree what Nadine Spirit says.

[Maria 60]

It's one thing and understand if a women doesn't want to see her man dressed like a women, but it's another when a women forbids his husband not to dress. My wife also doesn't care but if she did she would have to give me some space. I wouldn't ask for much, that's why I don't see why a women can't give her man space and not see it if she doesn't want. I don't understand why the can't meet there husband half way.

[Jenniferathome]

You know, my take on this is that it's a costume and it would not creep me out at all to see my wife dressed as a man for such an occasion because i KNOW she has no interest in being such. If on the other hand, she dressed as male in the way that I dress as a female, I would be perplexed. I get that I am a weird visage to her. So, as I have written many times, I am astounded in her ability to see me as Jennifer and be ok with it!

[JocelynRenee]

I'm just always perplexed that crossdressers can't see our POV more easily. I guess a love for femininity can cloud the obvious fact that women love masculinity just as much. You got a glimpse of my world Devorah, but imagine your wife dressing like this on regular occasions for the rest of your life and now you understand why I no longer participate in my H's dressing. I don't think I'd still be married if I did! :)

I don't think it is the case that CDs don't understand that heterosexual woman have an attraction to masculinity. Nor do I think we don't understand why CDing makes some women uncomfortable. Not only do we understand women's point of view, most of us spend the majority of, if not our entire lives feeling the exact same way. We know, better than anyone, how our desires impact the way others view us; how we view ourselves.

Obviously appearance plays a a rather large role in initial attraction, but surely a long-term relationship evolves to encompass more than a hairy chest, a beard, and a flannel shirt. I am a supportive companion, a good father, and a caring lover. Plus, both my wife and I look damn good in a suit and tie OR a little black dress. What could be better than that?

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Wow- that's a fascinating insight and the first of its kind I've read of here.

I lived with a very beautiful Spanish girl for a time, with long black wavy hair. She let me buy her a tailored brown tweed trouser suit which she wore with heels, the pseudo-masculinity of the suit only made her femininity more apparent. I found it very exciting. Totally opposite experience to yours.

[Dorit]

That seems to indicate that being a woman is the way to go, not from any sense of "easiness", far from it as most women lead very busy and much fulfilled lives, especially in view of family and friends.

I too like Tink, think that Kate's perspective is insightful. For me and probably many of us it's way more than just the clothes, it is being able to participate in that "club" called womanhood. As I often tell my wife, she is so lucky to be a women! That is why I relate to myself as someone more on the TG spectrum rather than a CD.

[charlenesomeone]

A costume for one night, I'd like to think it would be ok.
My SO is not comfortable with my CD/TG so this topic is very thought provoking.
Gender role reversal in a relationship would be different, but depending
on the feelings of both and the love could be done. The "club" is way more than
clothes for sure, just don't start any restroom questions.

[Jenniferathome]

... Not only do we understand women's point of view, most of us spend the majority of, if not our entire lives feeling the exact same way. ...

JocelynRenee, I think you missed Tinkerbell's point. It's really about the shoe on the other foot idea. What you read in many, many posts here is that the cross dresser can't understand why his wife doesn't want to see him dressed, in other words, participate. How many cross dressers want to hang out with their wife in a fake beard and mustache, crew cut wig, and bulge in her baggy pants? It's this juxtaposition and what Devorah stated in her opening statement that Think was hitting on.

[Tina B.]

Been there, wife has done that! Years ago, we went to a Halloween party, I as a military officer, and she went as a solider, with mustache.
I though she looked very cute.
But then my wife has very short hair, wears shirts that look just like a guys, if the buttons were reversed. I haven't seen her in a skirt in years, and she wears very practical shoes. I not sure I would notice her being cross dressed unless she told me. But if it made her happy, I would like to think I could be as good about it as she has been to me all of these years.

[JocelynRenee]

JocelynRenee, I think you missed Tinkerbell's point. It's really about the shoe on the other foot idea. What you read in many, many posts here is that the cross dresser can't understand why his wife doesn't want to see him dressed, in other words, participate. How many cross dressers want to hang out with their wife in a fake beard and mustache, crew cut wig, and strap-on packed in her baggy pants? It's this juxtaposition and what Devorah stated in her opening statement that Think was hitting on.

I understand the point of the thread: When the roles were reversed Devorah had an uneasy reaction to the gender switch her wife displayed and Tinkerbell wondered why more CDs don't understand a wife's feelings upon seeing her man in a dress. I'm simply asserting that the majority of us do understand exactly how our wives feel because at one time or another we have felt the exact same emotions upon looking in the mirror. How many of us have loathed the "sissy" inside? How many of us hide our true nature lest we become unemployable, unworthy of simple respect from strangers and co-workers, and unworthy of love from friends and family?

For the record, my comment was not an indictment of either the OP or Tinkerbell, who has earned respect from everyone here for her support and honesty. This thread opens up a discussion of honest feelings and there is nothing wrong with a wife finding herself turned off by the image of her husband in a dress. At the same time I don't find it surprising that a husband would desire to share this most intimate and vulnerable side of himself with the most important person in his life. And so we are left with a conundrum that we gather here to discuss.

Personally, my wife and I have gender-swapped and I did not have quite the same reaction as Devorah, but it did enhance my appreciation of my wife's support. How would I feel if my wife told me today that she was a MtF CD? I would be challenged by it in the same ways she is challenged by me. The challenge for all of us is can we find a way to compromise and overcome the obstacles that this life presents?

[JenniferR771]

Deverah,
there is an additional aspect that I would like to mention. Suppose when you wife dressed like a man--you were repulsed because you are not gay. If she looked convincing, the idea may have been very difficult for you if you do not date men.

Likewise women may have big concerns with a crossdresser, if they never dated a woman. The shoe is on the other foot.