Does Shaving EVER End?

[Debglam]

Hi All,

I'm following up on a conversation I've had with some of my girlfriends in various stages of transition / post-transition. The issue was how common is it to have to shave (face) occasionally AFTER permanent hair removal (laser and/or electrolysis); AFTER HRT; or AFTER surgery (orchi or SRS)? For what it's worth, the small sample I've spoken with directly is all over the place.

Thanks for your input.
Debby

[Frances]

I don't shave. Please define "permanent hair removal" in your hypothetical exemple. If the hair is removed, what is there to shave?

Also, HRT is an ongoing process. Do you mean "after starting HRT?"

[Debglam]

Hi Frances,

I am well into "permanent" hair removal and am skeptical. Electrolysis is pretty permanent but do they ever get everything? Others I know have done the full course of electrolysis and still get hair sprouting up.

Yes, after starting HRT. Again, I've talked to women well into HRT that still get facial hair popping up.

Regarding post-op, I imagine removal of the testes in any form has to help but is even that a total ending to facial hair growth?

Does this make sense? I know women who have ended up with "baby's bottom" skin and other that still need to shave. I'm speculating that there is probably a big genetics component to this but I don't know. I would really love to hear that the majority of women down the transition path never need to put a razor to their face again, but. . .

Deb

[AllieSF]

Well, I recently celebrated my third anniversary with my electrologist. I, as a TG, am a very small minuscule part of her total client list. That means that a lot of genetic women have facial hair issues on a regular basis, enough so to keep her busy 6 days a week. Tie that in with normal life stresses, cortisone shots and other factors the encourage hair growth in males and females, and it seems that there will always be a few stragglers that will pop out on the face every so often. I have come to accept the fact that my permanent hair removal will require occasional on going maintenance, just like my growing and recently dyed head hair! Such is life. Actual shaving for me stopped well over a year ago with the weekly hour or so of electrology every week serving as a painful substitute.

[Aprilrain]

I've been on hormones for 3.5 years, I've done hundreds of hours of electrolysis, I go for laser about every 6 weeks and I just had SRS. I don't shave my face at all anymore, I only shave my legs about once a month. I'd like to do more electro on my eyebrows they are still pretty bushy. My face could use some more but it's all white or blond hair. I do the laser on my body, mostly legs, arms and bikini, at this point it's prett much just maintanence, the bulk of the hair is gone.

[I Am Paula]

Laser on my face did wonders. There's still a few blonde ones that pop up, so I shave every few days. I'm going to get them taken care of with electro, but after getting boobs, and new teeth this year, I must let the bank account regroup for a few months.
HRT took care of all the body hair issues. They went to female patterns almost immediately.

[Debglam]

Thanks! So far sounds good! I hope that this is the more common experience!

[Frances]

The short answer is that they have not done the full course, otherwise they would not shave. SRS, and even HRT for me, have not changed anything about facial or body hair. I put about $20,000 in laser and electrolysis and did not stop until it was done. And done like a genetic woman, which a full covering of velus hair all over my face, which I don't shave. Women are not hairless.

[Angela Campbell]

I don't shave anymore after 158 hrs of electro. I still go in every couple of weeks for about an hour. Even after completion there will be hairs popping up every once in a while.

[Jorja]

This is something I have to think about. I can't tell you when the last time I had use a razor on my face. At an estimate I'll say it has been 25 years or better.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

not for me!!! (so far)

[Melissa Rose]

Electrolysis took care of all of my facial hair and I did not have regrowth once the entire process was completed (~75 total hours for me). I have not shaved my face in about 4 years. A few strays popped up within a year, but once treated they never came back. A lot depends on the skill of the electrologist and whether they completely kill the follicle. It is not unusual to have a hair or two spring up after quite a while, but some cis-women have the same problem. I have 1-2 fine hairs appear each year, but plucking them seems to get rid of them.

I had full leg, underarm and a few small patches on my back cleared by laser about 3 years ago. I shave my underarms about once a week depending on what I am wearing. It is more of a fine fuzz that I remove more due to the feel than the appearance. The small patches of hair on my back have completely disappeared. I shave a few small areas on my legs about once a week. It is a finer growth than original and probably 25-30 hairs total for both legs. I seem to have experienced better than average results with laser. HRT has made the body hair I still have a bit finer, but none of it completely disappeared.

[LeaP]

Such a silly question! Transition doesn't end shaving. It adds electrolysis ….

And electrolysis, of course, never ends. That's why you work.

[whowhatwhen]

Isn't there some level of facial hair on all human beings?
All I'm mostly worried about are the dark manly ones.

[Nicole Erin]

Whatever hair removal method you use will certainly help.
YOu probably won't get rid of it ALL but the object is to keep it to a point where you don;t have this dark shadow showing through makeup.
Me, I just epilate my facial hair and tweeze the few that are stubborn.

Beauty is pain. You want to look good, there is going to be daily hassle no matter what. Genetic women have to go through a bunch of junk to look good. Why should we be any different?

[Frances]

There are also white manly ones. Once I was finished with laser, my inner Grizzely Adams came out. That took hundreds of hours of electrolysis to finish.

[Eryn]

Even electrolysis isn't 100% effective. Some of the hairs will simply be "stunned" and may take months or even years to recover and start growing again. Just like a genetic woman you'll likely end up plucking a few stray hairs now and then. If they get to be too numerous, back to electro you go! It's a bit like Whack-A-Mole!

My electrologist of two years has been on vacation for three weeks and I'm going through withdrawal. I hadn't shaved for months but I had to shave off a dozen or so hairs that were getting too prominent on my chin and lips and I have a couple of bothersome ingrowns. My cheeks and neck are fine.

[allisonagain]

Can anyone tell me if they used "blend" electrolysis to clear their face? It's what I use because it's gentler to my face but much slower than the "pulse" technique. I have had great results with laser leaving me with the white hairs for electro. FYI, "blend" is when you hold a ground 'lead' for the machine to complete the circuit.

[Eryn]

Can anyone tell me if they used "blend" electrolysis to clear their face?

Never used it, but here's an explanation of the two types:

Traditional Galvanic Electrolysis is the application of a small DC current through the stylus, which is why you need to be grounded. The current creates a sodium hydroxide (lye) solution in the hair follicle which kills it. The downside is that it takes time for the electrochemical reaction to occur so it is very slow, on the order of 15-30 seconds per hair.

Thermolysis is the application of a high frequency current through the stylus which electrically heats the follicle. The heat is what kills the follicle. This is much faster, requiring a fraction of a second after the stylus is positioned. This is the preferred method now because it is so fast.

Blend is a combination of the two. It's a "belt and suspenders" approach that attacks the follicle two ways. By chemically and thermally poisoning the follicle it is more likely to be killed, but one might get equal results simply from zapping the follicle twice with thermolysis.

[Promethea]

"blend" is when you hold a ground 'lead' for the machine to complete the circuit.

Ouch! That sounds like something they would use on my dad in the 70's...

By the way, how long does electro really take, as opposed to laser or pulsated light? I've read people saying they've been getting electrolysis for months, but some SRS surgeons say they remove hairs from the penis shaft right before surgery. That's supposed to be a one time thing, I guess, nobody wants a hairy vagina.

[PretzelGirl]

You are going to have a vast difference between the face and other body parts. One time on the shaft may be enough while the face requires pass after pass.

I get to be grounded for my treatments. It isn't anything like it sounds. You don't feel it going through your body. It just isnt't efffective if you let go of it.

[gonegirl]

Shaving can end, for me it stopped after 130 hrs of galvanic electro... but the hair keeps coming, albeit less numerous and less course. I just recently surpassed 200 hours and the end is finally in sight. (maybe another 50 hours)

Just put your head down (on the technicians table, LOL), your wallet open, and keep at it.... You will get there..... eventually. :)

P.S. Just read a previous post stating 15-30 seconds per hair for galvanic treatment. My experience had been about 5 seconds per hair.

[Sarah Ellis]

Having refrained from laser since just before my srs, I've found that the hair is sprouting even more now. But what comes through seems to be very light or white, but is also quite coarse too. Not having any funds or income at present means I'm unable to finance any electrolysis that I'll need. But I will be having a word with my practitioner to see if funding can be provided in some way. I only have one laser session remaining (for those darker hairs) from those that were previously funded, by the health service, before my surgery.

Having said all that. i may add that shaving is not each day. It can be every 3 - 5 days before I really have to reach for the razor.

A hell of a lot better than when I first started my transition, when I was shaving 2 - 3 times every day.

[Debglam]

Thanks Ladies for answering what is kind of a personal question!

Laser did little or nothing for my face but worked very well on my body hair. I've had maybe a dozen hours of electrolysis so far, thermolysis as Eryn explained above. It is going to be a long haul. :sad: I've always had a baby face and couldn't grow a beard to save my life when I was young. Now that I want to get rid of the damn thing, I end up looking like Grizzly Adams as Frances put it. :cry:

It sounds like nothing beats the weekly torture sessions (I feel like I'm on the Addams Family when I'm holding that electrode!) and HRT which is in the future won't make a significant difference on my facial hair. Sigh.

Have a lovely Thanksgiving!
Debby

[Paulette]

As a survivor of both Laser (whole body) and electrolysis beard removal with over 280 hours of treatment all of it with blend it still have a few hours to go. I had to stop for awhile while i built up my courage (spelled wallet). Senzo Pela Med Spa in Phoenix for marathon sessions (80 hours with two technicians) and of course Julia Peterson at aboutfacesalon for weekly zapping sessions. Body hair greatly reduced and with HRT has become manageable. The short answer is that all of the electrolysis practitioners have more natal female client than TG which is a clue that all women have hair issues that need a professional help or the ability to braid face and body hair.

[Barbara Ella]

I am on HRT for 24 months. At 68 I have no other choice but electrolysis, as i am all grey. I have had two sessions of full clearing (24 hrs first, and 19 the second) and have seen positive results so far. Going in for my third session Dec 6, so will see how much reduction I get in clearing time with that one. Using the thermolysis method to date, will go to blend after another full session or so, as the blend method does increase the kill rate, but takes longer per hair to treat so there does need to be some permanent removal to keep the time down.

It does take perseverance to get it down to the point where shaving is no longer necessary. Just hang in there girl.

Barbara

[Kathryn Martin]

I started electrolysis on October 2010, I went for 2 one hour sessions a week until March 2014. I now go once a week, but am slated for every two weeks by Christmas. I stopped shaving altogether in October of 2013. I don't shave my legs or body but use an epilator every 6-8 weeks to remove very sparse unwanted hair. I am supposed to be done in March 2015.

[Angela Campbell]

I started 18 months ago, did 5 hr sessions every week for a long time. clearing the face and neck each time. After a while the time went down to 4, then 3 then 2.....still do 1 hr every two weeks and a little time down below in prep for srs.

I am at 160 hrs now and it is doubtful I will get to 200

[LeaP]

I'm at 80 hours. My cheeks and chin are essentiallly clear. The rest has been considerably thinned. For what it's worth, I can shave, pain and irritation-free, in about a minute or less with just a razor (no water or shaving cream) if I need to.

[PretzelGirl]

It is interesting not only the differences in our results, but also approach.

In 2011, I started laser and went once a month for 19 months. Then I started eletrolysis at 2 hour sessions. It was weekly at first and now is monthly and not quite getting 2 hours in as the hairs run out. So I am at 104 hours and I hope to get no where near 150.

[ClaraKay]

I am on HRT for 24 months. At 68 I have no other choice but electrolysis, as i am all grey. I have had two sessions of full clearing (24 hrs first, and 19 the second) and have seen positive results so far. Going in for my third session Dec 6, so will see how much reduction I get in clearing time with that one. Using the thermolysis method to date, will go to blend after another full session or so, as the blend method does increase the kill rate, but takes longer per hair to treat so there does need to be some permanent removal to keep the time down.

It does take perseverance to get it down to the point where shaving is no longer necessary. Just hang in there girl.

Barbara

Hi Barb,
I'm being treated by the same electrologist as you. I've had one full face and neck clearing so far which took 32 tech-hours. That's 16 hours in the chair over 2-days with two techs working on me simultaneously, one on each side of my face. They used a 27 MHz Apilus Platinum epilator set to do 'flash thermolysis'. I learned quite a bit talking to Belle about hair removal over the course of those two days.

At birth, a baby has all the follicles it will ever have (about 5 million) covering his or her body. The body cannot create new follicles. To permanently kill a follicle, you have to cut off the blood supply from capillaries that nourish the follicle's hair root (papilla). This is done by heating the cellular tissue in the vicinity of the papilla. The electrologist treats each papilla with a short burst of microwaves to destroy the cellular tissue in the vicinity of the papilla and then pulls the hair out with a tweezers to keep track of which follicles have been zapped.

Laser also works by heating the cellular tissues near the papilla so that the blood supply is cut off. The only difference is that laser uses the hair shaft itself to transmit heat energy to the hair root. That's why the hairs have to be dark against light skin. The dark hairs absorb the light energy of the laser producing heat which travels down the hair shaft to the papilla and the surrounding capillaries. Unless enough heat is produced, the follicle will not be killed. Electrolysis will work on any color of hair because the energy is delivered with a needle inserted to the depth of the hair's root. Electrolysis is more effective (higher kill rate) than laser because more heat can be delivered where it is needed on a consistent basis.

Mature, course hairs are harder to kill than young, thin ones. That's why the kill rate is so poor the first time a hair is treated. Some of the blood supply is still present to nourish the follicle, so a germ cell grows to produce a new hair in place of the one that was destroyed. The key to permanently killing a hair follicle is to zap it when it's still a young, tender hair with few capillaries in place. That means going to your electrologist or laser clinician at regular intervals. If you skip a week, many hairs will strengthen and have to be treated additional times to kill them. Often these young hairs are colorless, so using a laser on them is ineffective. It's important to switch to electrolysis to kill these colorless 'baby hairs' when they are very vulnerable. How many laser treatments you do before switching to electrolysis is going to vary from person to person.

Men and women have approximately the same number of facial hair follicles. The coarseness of the hair is determined by the presence/absence of DHT. A transman call grow a full beard by taking testosterone supplements, but a transwoman, after full facial hair removal, can never go back to having a beard. The reason some girls never seem to totally rid themselves of facial hair is simply because they have not killed every last follicle. As I said, the body does not create new follicles to make up for the ones that are lost. So, yes, it is possible to get to the point where you never have to shave.

Clara

[VickyMI]

Closing in on 400 hours after 3 years.
The best part was about a year ago I could go all day enfemme and not worry about a shadow.
Like they say start yearly.