The reveal trap

[Tina_gm]

Many of us on this board have been or are still in it. The reveal trap. You meet someone, and it is going great. You don't want it to end, so you don't reveal. Time goes on, you get closer and closer, then perhaps married, kids....

It is kind of like seeing a pretty balloon and grabbing it. Only it has a lot of lifting power and begins to pull you up. If you let go immediately, you lose the balloon but you land on the ground, on your feet. Hang on a little longer, you land harder. Keep hanging on and now if you let go you are going to fall a good ways and it is going to hurt when you land, cause injury and will take time to recover. The longer you hang on, the harder it becomes to let go. But also, the harder it gets to hang on as well....

It happened to me as well, i did not reveal until several months after I got married. It was about 3 and a half years after my wife and I got together. What would have happened had I told her right in the beginning?? I am not certain, nor is she, but I can tell you what would not have happened, pain and injury. And likely for me because of the not revealing until after marriage, the possibility that my wife may never be comfortable enough with it to be with me when I am dressed.

For some, perhaps they have passed a point of no return, and can only hope they can hang on or never get discovered. I am responsible for the troubles that CDing has caused. Not that my wife and I haven't overcome most of it, but it took time away from a relationship that was healthy and growing. It stopped growing for a while and had to mend. But, there are scars.

If you see the marriages and other relationships which are in good shape overall and the CDing is not a major factor in any problems or issues, you will notice that generally they are the ones which had an immediate or early reveal. Ones where a reveal took place many years after, they may get there, but generally it took many years, perhaps as many as it took for the reveal to happen to get there, if it ever does, and it often doesn't.

I boxed myself in somewhat. Considering how my wife was raised and her life before me, for her to accept me as much as she has, I can only imagine how much easier if could have been for the both of us had I revealed early on. It likely would have altered the getting to know process, may have slowed it down, perhaps taken longer to get to where we were ready to marry, who knows. And yes, possibly she would have chosen different. I believe now though that I could have played my cards right, been truthful in the beginning and both of us would have avoided the tough times after the reveal, and she would be more comfortable, and there would be less in the way of compromise we both feel we have to make.

I am not going to tell anyone what they should do. It is your life to live. I know personally I feel that the earlier the reveal, the better things will be for you and for your partner.

[Jenniferathome]

I agree with your final point. Earlier is better even though I came out more than two decades after I was married. I think of all the years of stress simply because I was afraid.

That stated, don't assume that the longer the hiding the longer it takes to accept. My wife was surprised and adjusted to it in days. For me, the key dependency is the trust in the relationship. Hiding this violates a trust. But it if your relationship is solid in every other way, it's one that can be adjusted to fairly easily. The caveat is that cross dressng can't be all consuming. If it is just a piece in your life, it would s easily manageable.

[Sara Jessica]

There is no easy answer. I'm grateful that my reveal happened merely months into my relationship but I cannot fathom how I managed to do so then instead of years into marriage like so many in these pages. I have no clue what made me go against the hiding grain.

Opinions on whether to reveal (one should) are nice to take into consideration but largely irrelevant in the big picture because the revealer has to live with the fallout for better or for worse.

[ChrissyW1]

Personally, while I repressed and concealed all through my first marriage, my second is much better -- I opened up to her (in terms of "I'd like to ....") about 2 years in, and it's been frankly pretty great. While she's ambivalent about it (occasionally buys me little femme gifts, supports me dressing in the house a couple times a week, but is horribly worried about going out...) it's let me open up and do something I repressed a desire for for 35 years.

[Anna H]

i also believe it to be very reasonable that many of us
would think it would go away. no problems then!

when i was about 7-8 or so, that's when i first heard
of Christine Jorgensen. That was when i knew for sure
i'd be a girl one day.....it was actually possible.

but, information was very lacking....to say the least...
during most of my life. there was no place to read or ask
questions. no one to talk to.

so, getting involved with girlfriends and long relationships,
there were times i thought it had gone away. it didn't matter
anymore and was a past secret that needn't be mentioned.

but, it'd always come back sooner or later. sometimes it'd
take years.

when we got the internet, i was honestly a bit surprised to
see so many saying it always comes back. i wouldn't think there's
any real way anyone could know that. but for me, at least, it was
very true. it always did.

the only reason i have my wife of now 25 years, and she has
absolutely no problem with it at all, is that i'd reached the point
where i intended to be out of any more long relationships and
be single from then on.

we were just friends, so i really didn't care if she knew....i'd just
move on if it became any kind of problem.

but, i was able to be more open than i'd ever been with anyone by
not thinking of, or pursuing any intimate relationship with her. so we
became so close that we ended up trusting each other a true and
full 100%. there were no secrets.....so it just happened slowly and
naturally. i had never met a person that i could trust absolutely.

i could have ended up with DADT a few times, but keeping my secret
probably made me a pain to get along with. it's very painful and highly
frustrating to never be able to trust someone enough to reveal such
a deep part of oneself.

it worked out for me because i didn't want a relationship. i just wanted
one real friend....and we became close because we weren't hiding parts
of ourselves for fear of ruining a potential relationship. we were just
fully open and straightforwardly honest with each other, so we became
protective and very loving of each other in time.

i always feel terribly and honestly for those who have to hide. i could
still be there myself. i sure do know how it is....i've been there a few times.
i always wish there were something useful i could contribute.

♥

[suchacutie]

I only have one data point. My wife and I found Tina together after being married for many years. It was a tremendous surprise for both of us, but since it was both of us there was never a trust issue. We started asking each other questions. Some we could answer and some responses were simply, "I don't know".

Had I been in the position to understand my feminine side at an early age, at a time where the whole idea of transgenderism was completely in the closet, I can see where it would have been hard to present that side of me if I had had poor experiences with prior discoveries. I don't envy anyone who was put down or abused early in life because of their feminine selves, and then have to try to deal with being open with a potential mate. It was hard enough to try to come to grips with Tina when I had a very supportive wife! Doing it alone boggles my mind.

[Erica Marie]

I am so on board with ,sooner is better. I married and she found out and that did not work so well. A few later we divorced for more reasons than that. Years down the road was in another serious relationship, this time I came clean a few years in and again didnt work out so well. Now I vowed I will never start another relationship without her knowing right from the beginning. Its not fair to the other person or yourself to keep it hidden. No one will be happy in the end and that is the reason why we enter a relationship to find happiness.

[Melanie Z]

Personally, I felt I owed it to my fiance to tell her before we get married, but I absolutely understand those who just can't make the reveal. I still feel a sense of dread when I think about anyone else finding out. I knew she wouldn't be happy about it, but I was 99% sure she would accept me no matter what, as she had already stuck with me through worse. It was three years into the relationship, and I had been doing things to try and soften the blow, like "joking" about trying things on when I'd go shopping with her (something that stopped after the reveal, unfortunatley), talking about being curious how it felt to be female, and taking one opportunity to correct her belief about crossdressing meaning you're gay.

[Stephanie Morgan]

My wife and I dated for 4 years before we married. My cross dressing had been non existent for about 14 years so the first year and a half of our dating, I didn't even think of it. Then the pink fog showed back up. Out of nowhere. For quite awhile, I fought it and kept the secret to myself (like I always did before). Another year went by and the urge to dress up was still there. I was so scared of loosing my girlfriend as we had gotten quite serious by this time. But at the same time, I felt like I owed it to her to be honest about everything. Heck, she knew all my other secrets. This was the only one she didn't know. So, we had the talk. Lots of questions and lots of time. She did what she always does with things she does not understand, she researches them. Long story short, we have just celebrated our 9th wedding anniversary and she is very accepting and very encouraging. No one can tell how things will turn out when they tell someone, but I am certainly a believer in the earlier the better. But everyone must choose for themselves what is right for their own situation.

Stephanie M.

[LelaK]

The honest thing for some is to say: I have one or more minor embarrassing secrets that I'm afraid to reveal until some future time, when our love reduces my fear.

[Jenniferathome]

Kind of like saying, "Honey, you just drank poison. I know the antidote for it, but I need to use the can first and maybe read a book. You might not die while I do that. You're cool with that, right?"

And what the wife hears is, "I have some really, really serious issue(s) about me that will impact you in deep and unknown ways, but ignore that for now. You're cool, right?"

[Mink]

I vowed I will never start another relationship without her knowing right from the beginning. Its not fair to the other person or yourself to keep it hidden. No one will be happy in the end and that is the reason why we enter a relationship to find happiness.

I guess with this it's hard to see in telling in the very begin why a woman would stay when she has next to no investment in you at that point? over before it starts!

and it KILLS me often to think that if you didn't tell a GF or Wifey you could have many years or a whole LIFE of happiness and such that would be ruined by one thing that you can't control...?

madness!

so is one to accept a life of sadness and being alone if it just never works out... ?

I wouldn't want to feel like at the end of my life (not getting a wife!) thinking Well crossdressing really screwed my life over! what a damn waste

it's damn complicated!

[PaulaQ]

I certainly fell into this trap. Had I revealed my gender issues early in the relationship, my wife would never have married me. I have no doubt of this.

It's an impossible situation when the world demands we lie about who we really are.

[Marcelle]

. . . Opinions on whether to reveal (one should) are nice to take into consideration but largely irrelevant in the big picture because the revealer has to live with the fallout for better or for worse.

I could not agree more Sara and well said. Each of us has to make our own decision and nobody can say "Hey give it a go because it is the right thing to do" or "Hey, hide it as it is no biggie" because none of us has to live the consequences of that person's decision.

Hugs

Isha

[Cheryl T]

I felt the earlier the better...ONCE....
Then I told her and she turned her back and walked away.

When I met my wife I vowed not to let that happen, to stay in the closet and hide and put on a good face. All was well until one stupid little mistake and then she found out. After lot of crying and talking I went back to that darkness swearing to her I quit (knowing I had to hide better) until I couldn't take it any longer and came clean. I was one of the lucky ones that was in the right place at the right time. She's fully accepting and that elephant has left the room forever.

Every situation is different, as we are all different. There's no one size fits all in this world for us.

[Erica Marie]

I guess with this it's hard to see in telling in the very begin why a woman would stay when she has next to no investment in you at that point? over before it starts!



it's damn complicated!
It is darn complicated, and why make it worse. Is it right to give someone false expectations. Would you want the girl you fell in love with, to come along 3 yrs later and tell you that she was really not who you expected. Now here hope you like it because you are stuck with me. People dont like to be fooled. I want someone to love me for who I truly am and if I dont find that person, then I guess this is the way it was meant to be.

[Maria 60]

Well in my opinion, it's seems a little easier these days with internet and finding information about anything. A lot more things are more out in the open these day, compared to let's say twenty years ago. A few days before I was getting married I threw everything out, thinking I was never going to wear women's cloths again. The first week back from our honeymoon there I was trying on her pantyhose, and for some reason I just felt so fed up with the hiding and didn't think I could live the rest of my life hiding as a fugitive. That same night when she came home from work I took the biggest chance I ever would take, mostly knowing she was a traditional Italian girl and it wasn't going to sit to well with her, and almost thirty years ago there wasn't as much info as now, but I realized the dressing wasn't going away and that I didn't want this life again. I sat her down and told her everything, from the first time I could remember trying on women's clothing, to that same morning that I put on her pantyhose. Surprising she asked me if I was gay and if I wanted to be a women and if I would be happy with being in the closet and this was our secret. I told her yes to all three questions, and then told me she didn't want me to stretch her things and that we needed to buy me my own pantyhose and panties and her closet was open to me when ever I wanted. WOW! What a weight off my shoulders and thirty years later she believes we have a strong relationship because of the dressing, and to be honest before this site I believed every wife would be OK with it, maybe because my wife was so accepting, and I was kind of shocked that so many women are so against it and even divorce over it. I believe she was accepting because she seen how hard it was to tell her,but she was also flattered when she found out that she was the only one I trusted to tell and she was the only one who knew about it, our secret that we share together. I believed it would haven't went as well three or four years later, but then again who knows, I guess you just have to take a chance, and see what comes out of it. But would believe it would be more complicated years later because of not being totally honest and what else are we hiding. Everyone knows there wife or girlfriend and maybe have an idea how there going to take it. For me I would have never imagined it was going to go like that.

[angelfire]

I told my girlfriend somewhere in our first 4 or 5 dates. I don't regret telling her when I did. Things still haven't been easy or smooth sailing, but it was better that it was on the table from almost the start. We have been together for just over 4 years now.

[Tina B.]

I'm one of the lucky ones, I lost a marriage mostly because of cross dressing, after that the urge left me, so years latter when I found myself in a new relationship I didn't even think about those old bad days of dressing and guilt. Then after five years of marriage, the need to dress came back, and as everyone knows, when it does, it can be fierce.
I fought the urge for a long time, refusing to give into it. I feel into a real bad funk, and began to take my mood out on anyone around me. I was unbearable, I can see that now. We separated, and where apart for a week and had gotten together to talk about where we where going to go from there. There was talk about giving it one more try, but at that point I knew nothing was going to be different, unless I did something different. I was ready to be single if that is what it was going to take, but I was never going back in to hiding and lying in my own home again.
So I told her all about Tina, how she had been with me since early childhood, and no matter how hard I had tried, I was stuck with her.
I was ready to pack it in at that point, figured she would go running from the room or something dramatic. But instead, all she said was is that all this has been about. And then she said lets go shopping, she bought me my first wig, 2 dresses, a pair of shoes, matching bra panties, garter belt, and half slip and camisole, plus earring to match both dresses. The scariest part was she insisted on a fashion show when we got home with it all, I wasn't ready for that, but with that kind of acceptance, you put on you big girl panties, and show off your new outfits.
That was almost 40 years ago, and life has been good every since. I don't know if she would have married me if she had known before hand, But after dating for a year and a half, plus five years of married life, I sure was glad I told her when I did it has giving me a lot of freedom to just be me, no matter who I am on any given day.

[CONSUELO]

I am a strong believer in revealing all early in the relationship and well before marriage. Also, there needs to be a complete understanding of how cross dressing desires can change and intensify with time. The cross dressing desires that one feels at the age of 20 for example are not necessarily the same as what one would feel at 30.
Before I married I revealed that I was a transvestite. That seemed acceptable and the marriage went ahead but the reality was hard to accept and tensions rose. I thought that what I "had" was more of a fetish for lingerie and I was not prepared for the change in my desires and the growing need to dress completely and be more and more feminine.
With the Internet and sites such as this one the resources that were pretty thin just a couple of decades ago are now very rich and should be used. In particular the experiences of people on this site and their stories of how they found their feelings change and intensify over time are very useful. I know it can be expensive but I would recommend good professional counseling for all couples where cross dressing is concerned. Yes, it would be a terrible blow if the relationship falls apart with the news but how much worse would it be to find out later.

Reveal early and reveal all would be my vote.

[Lorileah]

Surprising she asked me if I was gay and if I wanted to be a women and if I would be happy with being in the closet and this was our secret. I told her yes to all three questions, This is one of those things where ONE word can change the whole meaning. Are you gay and wanting to be a woman?

Everyone knows MY story. Married, didn't tell right away but she figured it out quickly and bought me things with the only caveat "don't embarrass me" Near the end of her life when I was stressed she would say "go put on a skirt". together 32 years total. Had a girlfriend who I communicate on the internet with for a long time who didn't know. When she said she was coming from LA to visit I sent her photos and her response was "Who is that?" I said me She said "cool" and we went a lot together with me dressed. Just before she died she was wondering why I didn't dress more often (I thought it was easier for her if I didn't but she liked Lori).

Point to my story? Two relationships. Both revealed early on and both women stayed. In my opinion this is how LOVE goes. All too often I think marriages are built of falsehoods. There is an old saw that says "One partner marries thinking that they can change the other and the other marries hoping the first partner will never change" Usually both are in for a surprise. But the MORE information you supply early on, the better they can decide and that means you both can be happy. If she says "no" then figure if that was enough for her to leave over, leaving early is a lot better than leaving later because of material goods, money and/or children would be involved. It can get bloody then.

But I know that sometimes insecurities win. You think this is the ONLY one. But is it? I think when the right one(s) come along you know it. If there is any question, you should really think about it. If you can't live with changes down the road, you shouldn't get married, because it will change. And you have to learn to live with, tolerate, accept, or ignore those changes. If you can't do the above, you need to get out.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

I have read all of the thread responses & from my current uncomfortable reveal position, the best response was ' one size does not fit all". Two weeks ago I had the reveal talk: married 25 years with the cd monster unearthed last year. Timing was essential and I thought the time was right. My wife is still devastated , cannot hold / look at me as "her man " & counseling can't come soon enough!! It has been hell for both of us...

My thoughts are : 1) keeping cding a secret might be your best option if a nuclear bomb should explode after the reveal, 2) the cd reveal is a monumental set back for wives regardless of their future acceptance , 3) be so thankful if you have an accepting wife & 4) stop bitching about your wife's lack of understanding about moving a boundary IF you have an existing understanding / accepting spouse. Those with understanding spouses have little idea as to how blessed they are. The alternative is hell for both spouses.

[Lorileah]

:thinking: is hell for both spouses better than one spouse with twice as much hell?

Revealing is a personal thing. I don't like keeping it a secret (can't now anyway). How important is your being trans to you? Is it a once in a while thing you can live without for awhile? Then why tell? Actually once again, I don't like secrets between mates because it wears away the foundation of the relationship even a little if it effects the SO in ANY way. Trust me, I am no angel so I know about trust issues. But the thing is, if it will not effect the spouse then you might keep it to yourself.

However, it rarely stays private. Things have a habit of growing. I met a CD the other day. She was beautiful and I know she could attract men. In fact that is what she did. She was on the sly behind her SO's back meeting men. What could happen right? You think explaining transgenderism to your wife is dangerous, try explaining a STD...especially a non curable one. Or explaining why you have marks (hopefully with permission) on your body. Or why you need your spouse to come to the hospital, jail, hotel, to get you. So if you aren't telling and staying home totally, it could work. Home totally, no mailbox runs. No walking after midnight. No driving around the block. Because she will find out. I like the idea of being in control personally. To know when the secret will come out instead of having to play defense. What are the odds? :idontknow:

Your life, your choice. You know your SO but don't believe you know her better than she knows herself. That is a fatal mistake. You making her decisions can be dangerous. How did Harry Callahan say it? "Do you feel lucky?"

[Amy Fakley]

the reveal isn't the trap.
when you're in this situation of being married with this fearsome secret, you're already in the trap.

The reveal is the exit. Like one of these:

235959

There is one way out. No matter what happens, if you take it, there is going to be substantial damage.
You might get lucky, and it might not be all that bad, but there is going to be a cost to taking that exit.

Only you can decide if that cost is justifiable. If being on the outside of your closet (at least to your spouse), is going to be worth it (for the both of you).

Everyone's situation is different, but one thing is constant: it's always one hell of a situation we find ourselves in.

When I told, I blew all 4 tires for sure. But to extend the metaphor, the old tires were worn out anyhow. Together, we bolted new tires onto our marriage, and things are far better now than they ever were before. I wish I'd told sooner, but that's life. Everything's clear in hindsight, and who knows how it would have been if I'd told 10 or 20 years ago? We were both in very different places then. Decisions were made. I can't say they were the right ones or the wrong ones, but they were made nonetheless.

To quote one of my favorite Bon Iver songs "what might have been lost don't bother me".

... but you can't really extrapolate that to your own experience.
Only you can know for yourself, and even then, it's still a roll of the dice.

Don't let anyone ever tell you what "the right thing" to do is. Only you can know that, and even then you might not be right. But it's your decision to make and no one else's.

Best of luck to everyone in this situation, you have my respect no matter what decision you make, or if you never make one.

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,
There are several problems with the early reveal !
First we don't realise it's a problem until we get a partner that doesn't accept !
Second some get a gap after marrying and think it's gone away ! Also some think that being married will cure them of CDing ! Some are late starters and may be years into their marriage before the problem surfaces !

I fell into the first trap of having an accepting GF before I married, so I assumed women wouldn't have a problem with it ! OK I was a young naive twenty year old !
Basically CDing isn't a problem if your partner accepts it ! The non acceptance tends to get worse with time ! I've gone full circle and wondering at my age why is there a problem ?

[SO1Adam12]

My experience was an early but slow reveal. I was OK with it but after a few years when he began to accelerate and expand his dressing it got a little more complicated for me. Maybe he was in the pink fog - not really sure to see if he has come out on the other end of that since things didn't work out between us. CDing wasn't really a factor in that though.

I would say that if she can't accept it early on (and by early on when you both decide that this is a relationship you want to pursue long term) then she won't be able to accept it later. Having said that she may stay even if she doesn't accept for many reasons, but there will likely be constant resentment that you led her into something under false pretenses and quite possibly "trapped" her with children and other obligations.

How would you feel if your wife married you with the knowledge that you wanted children more than anything, then after years of trying she reveals she was told before you were married that she couldn't conceive, but hoped they were wrong? It may not be a balanced comparison but I know more than one man this happened to, even a man who neglected to tell his wife he had had a vasectomy. The feelings afterwards varied between understanding to devastation, much the same as a reveal will be.

You don't know what her reaction will be but to go into a marriage without providing this information is just plain selfish and unfair. She has the right to know what she's getting into and make her own informed decision.

[Stephanie Julianna]

After 43 years married I can tell you that the "early" reveal has only had a spotty benefit. In an argument about my crossdressing I have always been able to say, "I told you years before we married." "You used to play with my dress up games." For years she let me hang with the girls at Connecticut Outreach Society and even let me Go to Fantasia and First Event. In a spirit of trying to do right I purged and went back into the closet until last year. When I came out she was not as forgiving. It was like I had failed her. I have to try and find compromise because she will be retiring soon and my weekly dressing at home could be seriously curtailed. I don't think I could suffer not being myself every now and then. However, with 3 children, 7 grandchildren and a 43 year marriage on the line, I do not want to make this the line in the sand. There has to be a compromise somewhere.

[S. Lisa Smith]

I agree with your final point. Earlier is better even though I came out more than two decades after I was married. I think of all the years of stress simply because I was afraid.

That stated, don't assume that the longer the hiding the longer it takes to accept. My wife was surprised and adjusted to it in days. For me, the key dependency is the trust in the relationship. Hiding this violates a trust. But it if your relationship is solid in every other way, it's one that can be adjusted to fairly easily. The caveat is that cross dressng can't be all consuming. If it is just a piece in your life, it would s easily manageable. I told my wife about twenty years in as well. She was surprised as well. Perhaps she realized that the cross dressing was a part of who I am, the person she loved and without it, I would be a different person. I'll ask.

[Teresa]

Stephanie,
That sounds familiar, apart from being fully out !
Forty years of marriage, two children and three grandchildren and wife due to retire in about two years time !
We have to sit down and really talk it through, I can't keep hiding behind curtains any more !

[PaulaQ]

There are really only a couple of reasons to be out and thus tell a partner early on:
1. A life in the closet is a life that is fundamentally a lie. I'm not talking about to other people - they helped create this mess. The hell with them. No, what matters is we lie to ourselves. We don't live authentic lives in the closet. We can't be ourselves, and that robs us of our lives! THEY don't get to live your life - they have no say in it. Why do you give them such power over you? They don't deserve or appreciate it.

2. Being out as trans is hard sometimes. I won't lie about that. Indeed, those of us who are out get murdered or commit suicide in truly alarming numbers. A lot of us will hold vigils over the next week for those trans who were slaughtered by a cruel and uncaring world. But - the more we hide, the easier it is for others to view us as subhuman and worthy targets of violence. The consequences of being out keep many of you in hiding. And yet, if you don't stand up and fight for your right to simply be whom you are, no one else will fight for you either.

Look - I don't have to be out. My voice is pretty good, I look fairly passable now, and I'll look better in the coming couple of years. I could go stealth, and return back to the closet. I choose to be out because I'd rather die while living life on my terms than exist in the horrible living death that characterized my life before. My life is fuller and richer now than ever before. Yeah, I lost stuff. A lot of stuff. Relationships, material possessions, friendships. Yeah, it hurt like hell, and I know I'm one of the lucky ones. Still, I've gained more than I ever lost - because what I have in my life now is REAL.

[Tina_gm]

Thank you everyone for your responses. It is a touchy subject for many. Myself included. I wish I had the courage to be myself and not put myself or my wife through this.

For Melissa and Teresa especially, After a long time and then a reveal, or a long time without any communication on it, it is obviously so difficult. I would only remind you both, that she hasn't packed her bags because of it.....

It isn't just our wives that need counseling! We do to, or at least some way for us to get help in our own acceptance, or in learning how to deal and live in a life where this is no longer just our own little secret. HOW to compromise, how to accept our partner's limitations with this, how to express to them what we need and desire in a way which does not cause relationship harm.

It is only further obvious to me with those who talk of difficulties after many years of a non reveal, and even of ones who have early on of the trap. How we CDers get pulled into it. By our wish to be non CDers and or TG.... to the thought that we could control it. (we are told we can if we want to or try hard enough, it is a mental sickness after all) ( or so we are told)

To the later revealers, there is more than just your dressing and or your now disclosed femininity that your partner is now dealing with. While we CDers have an increased fem side, Most of us cannot truly get inside a GG's brain and understand how a lie or an omission effects them, myself included. Even if we get it somewhat, what a woman feels from this goes so far beyond the dressing. And the dressing alone is a major challenge besides. They are being hit with two bricks to the head at once, although I truly believe the one about the non disclosure hits harder.

To those who have lived many decades without revealing, I am not going to advise you at this time to disclose. Although if you truly feel the need you should. perhaps it is just time for you. To just do so because it is the "right" thing to do, no, I do not feel this way, personally. I was set to take my secret to my grave when I asked my wife to marry me. That may be the case for some of you. Although I chose to out myself, my choice to accept her difficulties, and the compromises of less dressing time, for her to not participate in it are my way of acknowledging my mistake, my fear I had and my unfairness of not disclosing. She didn't know all about me. But, I want to stay with her so I will adapt. Not even adapt really, but to maintain much of my life as it had always been anyway. Now, I actually have more than I did before.

[Angie G]

I don't know about that. I never revealed my dressing for better almost 40 years of marriage and it has been good for the past 8 years. But then all woman arn't the same as my wife. I think her and I are ment to be from day one.:hugs:
Angie

[Tina_gm]

Angie that is remarkable. I do not mean this in any way bad. 40years of of not a reveal, remarkable for you to go that long and survive. remarkable for her to go that long and accept. truly remarkable. Love is such a great thing.

[MatildaJ.]

As a GG, I don't understand why the conversation here so often centers around "keeping this lifelong secret" or "revealing it."

To me, it makes sense to think of it more as a minor interest which evolves. If it were as intense in one's twenties, one wouldn't be able to hide it so successfully for years and years.

So why treat it as this big unchanging secret, when obviously you have changed to need to CD more, and more openly?

If I were you, I would admit early on to a minor fetish for women's lingerie (or whatever). Then in your 40s or 50s, when the need becomes more demanding, the stage is already set to admit that you find yourself evolving and now you need more. That's no guarantee that she'll be enthusiastic, but then it's not like you were keeping this huge secret from her. It's just that you evolved (which is no one's fault), and you hope to still be compatible enough to stay together.

[MichelleDevon]

So much written here chimes with my own history... Married in 1975 and I knew the I loved hosiery and lingerie but it was a guilty secret, it's just me. Back then it was in the bad old days even before homosexual activity was made legal between consenting adults. It certainly wasn't something I was going to own up to in a hurry. For years I continued to dabble, wearing my wife's clothes when she was out and if her parents were away and their cats needed feeding there was the attraction of my mother-in-law's large collection of nylon and satin lingerie to explore after the cats were done.

And so it might have continued but for the advent of the internet. This led me to the realisation that far from it being "just me" there were thousands out there...wow! That was an outstanding revelation to me. And in talking to others on the web I realised I needed to "come clean". I waited months for an opportunity - it came almost 26 years into the marriage and, as I have described elsewhere, that revelation was a disaster. Whilst it may have salved my conscience it did absolutely nothing to make it easier or more acceptable. A further 5 years on with no significant progress a number of factors came together and, for me, the whole fabric of the marriage tumbled. That was encouraged by a "love at first sight" meeting with a lovely young lady who was left in no doubt whatsoever about my proclivity for dressing in womenswear - she knew from our first date.

Sadly, it went wrong and partly because my ladylove, who lacked self-confidence, felt threatened by the other woman in me, even though that was before I really explored it in depth - and well before Michelle. Now she is much more comfortable with it and we still see each other occasionally - sometimes I am Stephen , sometimes Michelle - and we both have regrets.

I am back with my wife now, she tolerates Michelle, sometimes joins in with clothes selection but is not turned on by it at all. I try to moderate my activities but I love my home alone time when she is away. I have two daughters who both found out at the time I left - I had wanted to tell them back in 2001 when I came clean but my wife was adamant that they shouldn't know. One is comfortable with it but she lives in California - a mere 6000 miles away with my little grandson who has met his Granny Michelle several times on Skype. The other is not comfortable with it and now lives 20 miles away with my two granddaughters who have as much chance of meeting Michelle as they have of meeting Father Christmas.

We celebrate 40 years next year (aside from the 2 years off for bad behaviour!) and with impending retirements I am really not sure how it is all going to pan out - I will not purge, nor will I willingly give up Michelle. I don't yet know how/what compromise we will get to but there needs to be one.

I have left once though and I would, potentially, do so again but that could seriously threaten my relationship with the granddaughters. Wht I do know for certain is that I would never embark on a relationship without CDing being out in the open from day 1.

Michelle
xxx

[Tina_gm]

There is a truth in that it evolves for most of us, myself included. But that is part of the trap. That we think what we feel at 20 is how we will feel when we are 50. I thought I could control it, not act on it. take it to my grave.

[angelfire]

As a GG, I don't understand why the conversation here so often centers around "keeping this lifelong secret" or "revealing it."

To me, it makes sense to think of it more as a minor interest which evolves. If it were as intense in one's twenties, one wouldn't be able to hide it so successfully for years and years.

So why treat it as this big unchanging secret, when obviously you have changed to need to CD more, and more openly?

If I were you, I would admit early on to a minor fetish for women's lingerie (or whatever). Then in your 40s or 50s, when the need becomes more demanding, the stage is already set to admit that you find yourself evolving and now you need more. That's no guarantee that she'll be enthusiastic, but then it's not like you were keeping this huge secret from her. It's just that you evolved (which is no one's fault), and you hope to still be compatible enough to stay together.

Interesting perspective, and I totally understand where you are coming from. My therapist has done a lot of research in the transgender field specifically. She said from her research, a lot of CDs or Trans folks believe they can suppress it for a long time, but the breaking point if I recall, was apparently at 43 years old. Apparently many figure "I can stop" or "I can change" but eventually, that wears off. And that "eventually" in most cases is in the 40's.

Now, I am not there yet, but I have already seen how it is an evolving process. I have learned a lot from this board. I have learned from the mistakes others here have made (or at least I hope I did). I did the early reveal. I told her that it was part of me, and I would never be able to stop long term. I agreed to stop for 2 years, being upfront that it was a temporary solution. But you know what? You're right. Eventually, the need has become more demanding. For me, I am glad it did when I was 28, and not in my 40's.

I honestly believed that I would be content with where I was. Now, I am working with my therapist to try to determine how much I need and where this will take me. And I am realizing that I may never know where this ends. And from what she has said, there is no way to tell where things will end, and that it is different for everybody. And no matter what I think and determine today, it could change when I hit my 40's or 50's anyway.

And right now, that is where I am. I am trying to see how this evolves in the short term, and to see if it is something my girlfriend is able to accept, and then if the long term is even possible from there.

[Claire Cook]

I agree with Melissa -- there is no "One size fits all" here. So much depends on the the individuals involved and how strong your relationship is. I don't know about the "early" versus "late" revelation. In many cases it may not matter -- if your wife / GF is unable to accept, it probably does not matter. Then there are the questions of trust and not being open when we hide it, not to mention our own guilt and angst. Those of us who are fortunate with understanding partners can only try to emphasize with those who are not so lucky. Melissa, I'm echoing you....

[CD Tammy]

I've been married twice. The first time, I told her not long after we were living together. The reveal was made sort of in jest, then when accepted somewhat with further details. Accepted, is a bit of a stretch. She thought it was okay in limited amount, in the way of bedroom games. The second marriage, the reveal came on its own when Tammy's clothing stash was discovered at about six months, into the marriage. The marriage lasted eight months before we separated. Unbeknownst to me she told many people that I was a homosexual. I only found out because, my next girlfriend was smoking hot, causing several of our mutual friends to tell me about what she had said. Each of them would say, that my new girlfriend pretty much ruled that out.

[NicoleScott]

We all may evolve, but not from the same thing to the same thing. And not all of us have a need to crossdress more openly. Those of us that [still] find crossdressing sexually exciting have no need to share it with the world, and certainly not to friends and work associates. We just keep it personal and private.
How and when a reveal happens may help the chances for acceptance/tolerance/support/understanding....but the trap remains. One never knows for sure that the idea of a man crossdressing isn't repulsive to a woman. Some women just can't be with a crossdresser.

[Katey888]

I've been biding my time commenting on this topic and wondering really what was the point of the OP in order to address it properly, and I think it distills to the closing paragraph:


I am not going to tell anyone what they should do. It is your life to live. I know personally I feel that the earlier the reveal, the better things will be for you and for your partner.

I'm sure your feelings are honest GM - for your relationship, for you as individuals and your specific circumstances and particularly, the strength of feeling associated with your need and motivation to CD. But I wouldn't want anyone reading this to believe that there aren't any other options. Through two relationships and with children in the second I have never revealed this side of me to either SO in over 35 years... and nor do I see any need to presently.

Perhaps it's related to my need and motivation and how that has developed over time - perhaps I'm fortunate in that I can control 'it' rather than 'it' controlling me... It has developed further over the past few years, but nothing like some of the stories that I've read of here and I can assure you I retain the deepest sympathy for many of those where revealing has been necessary and the relationship has foundered. I can fully appreciate where someone has suffered for decades and cannot bear to repress their feelings any further for fear of the ongoing damage that repression is causing...

But not everyone suffers that much... Perhaps we see a member base here at cd.com that is more biased towards this because we seem to be the only place that does offer a significant amount of moral and practical support to those that need to go through the reveal process - it doesn't mean we all have to, nor that it would be best for everyone to do so. I've done this in one form or another for decades - only recently have I found the opportunity to broadcast this side of me publicly...

Had I wanted to do it for a while? Yes. Do I want to do it again? You bet! But in the right circumstances... Now here, I feel, are the significant differences between me and those of you who need to go further:

Do I need to involve my wife in this? No - I neither need to nor want to...
Do I need to do more than the specific events I want to be involved in? No - I am quite content with the time I have at home, and a few specific events I want to do that are more socially focused - I have no desire or need to go shopping, walk about the neighbourhood, go to coffee shops, underdress...
Do I think I can keep this part of me partitioned for ever...? Probably... I know that there have been long periods when the need to dress even occasionally has gone away for years - how would I feel if I revealed only for the desire to wane again AFTER my relationship went into a terminal nosedive because of that revelation..? Not happy, I think...

I'm putting this up here in this way only because if someone else is reading this who sees some similarity with my behaviour and circumstances, they might realise that the majority of opinion 'that the earlier the reveal, the better things will be..' is not necessarily the only way to approach the future if you are already in a relationship. :)

Katey x

[Andrea Chenowith]

Although I fully intend to go back later and re-read all of the responses in detail, Katey's first rhetorical question resonates with me enough for a quick reply.

Like her, I do not (presently) need nor want to involve my wife in this.

I am a full-time panty wearer (with my wife's full blessing) and my wife knows bits and pieces about previous instances of dressing. She does not, however, know the full extent of my dressing activities. Do I think that she would be comfortable with the _idea_ of it? No way to be 100% certain, but I'd be confident in a 65/35 chance of yes.

The conflict that keeps me fully closeted is my wife's body type and self-image. As I may have alluded to in another thread, my wife and I wear the same size bra (46C). But since we are considerably apart in height (I'm 6', she's 5-4), I actually wear a smaller size dress than she does, even though I am somewhat heavier. Additionally, she is much slighter in skeletal frame than I am, so she carries her weight around her midsection while mine is more evenly distributed top-to-bottom. I know that it is not necessarily healthy to compare ourselves to our wives - and I try not to do that - but I am able to wear almost anything with more ease than she can. (Dainty or sky-high stilettos notwithstanding....)

And one of the drivers for my dressing further complicates the issue, in that I dress in the style of my ideal woman. Because she has always battled her weight, she has never really felt comfortable wearing dresses, and absolutely _HATES_ pantyhose. She's also never really gotten in to makeup. I've only recently been able to help her become confident enough to expand her style to include the occasional workday dress, and I've also been helping her pick out outfits that are moving toward my ideal woman - which may eventually help lessen my desire to dress. (Who knows..)

Would I be excited if she were to tell me tomorrow that she wants to take an active role in my dressing, or at least facilitate my occasional indulgences? Absolutely. I'd be excited beyond belief... But there's NO WAY I would risk the changes in her self-image and the growth in her self-confidence that I've been able to help her achieve so far.

[JoanneCDSydney]

thank you...
i am heading down this road with my partner as we speak.
for me and my relationship, slow steps is the way forward.

but again thank you as this thread is perfect for me right now....

[SO1Adam12]

Katey I found your answer interesting in that you can "control" this without the need to reveal. Trust and believe I think many SO's wish they could have remained blindly ignorant to the whole thing. Life was probably much simpler - even for me my anxiety increased as his need to dress expanded. His is fetish based now but I could see it moving on from there and I wasn't sure if I could be OK with him minus his beard, plus wig and a female persona. In fact the beard helped me see past the other stuff....but I digress.

I have to wonder if you didn't have the opportunity you apparently have to fulfill your need would you feel the same? The reason I ask is because I am thinking of the anxiety Teresa is going through right now knowing that her dressing time is going to be substantially limited when her wife retires.

I get that when we marry most of us are too young to know who we are, what we want and what we will and will not tolerate so I can see where denial of the CDer plays arole - thinking they can control it without the SO finding out. But I struggle with those who advocate not revealing before marriage and then can't keep the secret and resent the SO's lack of acceptance. It just seems to scream of a bait and switch. I dunno...I think you have an innate amount of control and can compartmentalize your life very well. If you can do that and be satisfied be grateful. Most people do not have that much control.

[MissTee]

I would offer up that timing is NOT everything. In some cases, regardless of rather you told early or late, they just don't like it and don't want any part of it. Ever. Sure, some can be coaxed into adapting to it since over time other dimensions develop in the relationship that may weigh in your favor. It's really up to the person you seek acceptance from to decide if they want this in their life or not. It is difficult, then, to change that conviction.

I was one of the lucky. 7 or so years into the marriage my wife suggested it to me. I think she suspected my proclivity, but she simply thought it was cute. She came into the relationship that way and it was an easy sell.

All that to say it is best to try to find someone who accepts from the beginning. Beyond that, degrees of difficulty and heart ache begin.

[Jenniferathome]

...Through two relationships and with children in the second I have never revealed this side of me to either SO in over 35 years... and nor do I see any need to presently.... - perhaps I'm fortunate in that I can control 'it' rather than 'it' controlling me... ...

Katey, sharing this part of you with your wife is not related to control or lack there of of cross dressing. It's about honesty. Thats it. I didn't dress often nor do I now. I simply reached the point that I could no longer lie to myself that she was better off not knowing. You can't appreciate it yet, but AFTER you come out, you are a different person.


I would offer up that timing is NOT everything. In some cases, regardless of rather you told early or late, they just don't like it and don't want any part of it. Ever. ...
Or they may be able to handle it. And THAT is the chief point. Don't presume it's too late.

[Beverley Sims]

The trouble is what if the trap goes off and there is no resetting it?
That is the big unknown.

[Tina_gm]

I would just like to reiterate, as for what Katey has said specifically, that I am not attempting to push anyone into disclosure. For ME, it was the right thing to do. But, for those who don't, haven't, may want to but feel the consequences may be to the point of a break up, it becomes a trap we fall into, or perhaps a trap we literally set up for ourselves and have such a hard time getting out of.

I know that I would survive, and even find times of happiness if I was to quit dressing and any feminine expression. There would be a pretty big void though. And it would be at times quite hard to deal with. I also think of those who have not told, and what many of you must go through, of keeping this part of you a secret from your partners. I remember how I used to feel. How I spent as much if not more time making sure what dressing I did, which was quite minimal was not discovered. I felt paranoid. I felt guilty. It was stressful. I felt it was better to tell her, and if she was to accept, heck, that would give me more time to dress, let alone end all of the guilt, worry and paranoia I was feeling. It has made my dressing a far better experience.

I honestly cannot say for certain what I would do.... but if my wife sat me down without anger, told me she loved me accepted that I have whatever it is inside me that gives me femininity and a desire to dress, but said that she just could not handle anymore dressing, I would likely quit. So I would assume that those who are highly suspecting that a reveal would end the relationship or marriage, then I can't say that I would be revealing either.

I suspected my wife would be able to accept it, in some fashion, and while it can be difficult for her, I was right. Although not exactly as I thought she would accept it. I did feel there was a risk, I was not certain of her acceptance. To help her and to help gain that acceptance, I believe that by falling into the trap, I have caused both her and I much unneeded stress, turmoil and perhaps a feeling of compromise on both our parts that would not have existed had I told her early on.

[Lorileah]

I would offer up that timing is NOT everything. In some cases, regardless of rather you told early or late, they just don't like it and don't want any part of it. Ever. But that really isn't the point. To me it is a control issue as Katey alluded. It is the CD controlling what the SO knows and thus control their reaction, good or bad. The difference is how much you have invested early (not much) and later (a whole lot). And you keeping your SO from pursuing a life unfettered by YOUR crossdressing. It is selfish to take years and years from a person, and that is what you do by not telling them early, where they could be living with someone who doesn't hold secrets, especially secrets that does effect them on many levels.



Like her, I do not (presently) need nor want to involve my wife in this.

I am a full-time panty wearer (with my wife's full blessing) and my wife knows bits and pieces about previous instances of dressing. She does not, however, know the full extent of my dressing activities. I find this contradictory in a sense.... you DO involve her every day if she knows you wear panties. But again, it is a control thing. The CD assumes they know how the SO will react. You don't and IF there is a chance that you will take this to a deeper level she needs to know.


Katey I found your answer interesting in that you can "control" this without the need to reveal. Trust and believe I think many SO's wish they could have remained blindly ignorant to the whole thing.

I agree. There are things that when revealed later in life you wish you didn't know. I had this with my GF. I thought I knew her even without knowing the details of her life before me. I was content to think that what happened before me wasn't going to effect me in any way. Yet when the secret was revealed I was angry (and no one to focus that on) and felt betrayed. I hurt because she didn't, for whatever reason...lets just say she had it under control, trust me enough to allow me to decide if I wanted to stay or not. I would like to believe I would have handled it and although it would have been a "elephant" in the room, it would not have changed my feelings for her. Three years later that is true. I still love her but there was a time when I didn't like what she did to me.

You see most of the CDs here will never have to go through that. They won't have to find out a "secret" their spouse is hiding. They won't ever have to feel how it is to be betrayed and not trusted. Yes most the time, as with many of the CDs here, whatever that secret is won't rise up...until it is too late. The knock on the door from a child you didn't know they had. Or ever worse from a spouse they still have but didn't tell you about. Maybe the police show up about being here illegally? They won't know until it happens and YOU aren't the one who gets to control that reveal. we frequently get threads about "what happens if I die and my SO finds my stuff?" and one of the most selfish and inane answers is "I don't care, I won't be there". Selfish yes because basically you are saying her (or his) feelings really matter less than yours. As long as you are happy, and in control, then all is well in the world.

But I can repeat this three times a year like I do and still those who feel they have it all in their control won't listen. And thankfully, they won't have to suffer the same lack of respect from their SO. Personally, I see marriage as a partnership, equal in every manner, where secrets that may effect the spouse in ANY way needs to be put on the table. I married adult women, women who had minds of their own. I let them make that decision...isn't that what is fair? Isn't that what you would want them to do for you?

I just wasted space and time for 80% of the people who read this thread.

[Andrea Chenowith]

I find this contradictory in a sense.... you DO involve her every day if she knows you wear panties. But again, it is a control thing.

I have actually contemplated this a bit, and can see the potential contradiction. However, even as the sexual connection to them has waxed and waned, my choice of underwear has not wavered. I would never go back to wearing traditional male underwear, as both the waistband and the open fly are uncomfortable to me.


The CD assumes they know how the SO will react. You don't and IF there is a chance that you will take this to a deeper level she needs to know.

I fully accept that I don't know how she will react. Indeed, it's a concern for me tomorrow as we are going shopping as a family, and one of the stops is Torrid so that my wife can return a top she purchased online. The same Torrid where I've taken long lunches to try on dresses, and the same Torrid where the manager actively complimented me on my legs. I did not have the opportunity to get out there earlier this week and confirm the discretion of the SAs, so I'm praying for the best and running through scenarios in my head of how to respond.

What I _DO_ know is that this habit will go no deeper for me. I'm completely satisfied as an occasional dresser, and harbor no thoughts or questions about my gender identity. Will I eventually tell my wife? Without a doubt I will. But with all of the other stressors in our life right now, it's not the right time. I accept that it is somewhat unfair (although I do work to offset that in other areas of our relationship) but it would be even more unfair to reveal this secret at this time.

[Crystal Beth]

I guess I cheated on my reveal with my wife. I used Haloween as a chance to dress up and she loved it. I had dressed once before for a charity benifit. After testing the waters on Halloween I magically "found" my stash that I claimed was from the prior charity event. She was instantly accepting and had fun with me dressing up and insisted I try her stuff on. I know how lucky I am to have her in my life. If I had tried the reveal on any other day who knows what would have happened? I understand and feel for those that are keeping a secret from their SO because I have been there. The urge never went away. I would hate to see my marriage blow up in my face because I love wearing panties and skirts. Not only is my wife accepting, she is also encouraging. The reveal is scary because your life could change in an instant. I am lucky that mine changed for the better.

[Sara Jessica]

I fully accept that I don't know how she will react. Indeed, it's a concern for me tomorrow as we are going shopping as a family, and one of the stops is Torrid so that my wife can return a top she purchased online. The same Torrid where I've taken long lunches to try on dresses, and the same Torrid where the manager actively complimented me on my legs. I did not have the opportunity to get out there earlier this week and confirm the discretion of the SAs, so I'm praying for the best and running through scenarios in my head of how to respond.

Oh you are soooooo toast!!! ;)

Seriously, what you need to do is avoid going into that store unless you are ready for the big reveal on the spot. Magically find the need to use the restroom as you approach the store and then find a sitting area somewhere outside to wait for her to finish, if necessary. After all, that is totally the "guy" thing to do, to avoid that uncomfortable hovering while their SO shops 'til she drops.

[Andrea Chenowith]

Sara - I actually had that same thought. As it turns out, there's a kids play area just down the way from this store. I suggested that instead of trying to corral our toddler, she and I should go hit the play area. Wife enthusiastically agreed. :-p

[Katey888]

Andrea - I'm happy my thoughts struck a chord with you... hopefully there will be more who have read your thoughts too and also find some resonance but just don't comment... :)


Katey I found your answer interesting in that you can "control" this without the need to reveal. Trust and believe I think many SO's wish they could have remained blindly ignorant to the whole thing. ...

I have to wonder if you didn't have the opportunity you apparently have to fulfill your need would you feel the same? ...

I think you have an innate amount of control and can compartmentalize your life very well. If you can do that and be satisfied be grateful. Most people do not have that much control.

SO1 - I've read many comments by the GGs that are generous enough to actively interact and support us here (quite few, it seems, although we are grateful..) and I do thoroughly believe that keeping this under wraps is the best way for someone in my situation to go - as you say in closing though, it would probably ONLY work with those of us who can find or engineer the opportunity AND manage that partitioning. I don't believe it would work for everyone but I'm also becoming more convinced that there tends to be a disproportionate number of folk here that post and have tolerant or 'aware' SOs - hence the number of outings stories, DADT discussions, shopping excursions and so on... I'm afraid the posts of a typically secret and closeted CDer are significantly less exciting - let's face it, we have very little to post about! If I were to predict where I am in a few years time with this, I suspect the urge may have subsided again (as it has more than once in the past) so to reveal something that only might be continuing in the future seems overly risky to me when the revelation may also lead to something catastrophic with respect to my marriage. This is a balance that I'm prepared to manage and live with - I accept it won't be for everyone, but I do know of others on the forum who have both very specific and well reasoned and justified motivations for not revealing. I can live with a lie that protects my wife, but I also accept that others cannot find that a suitable course, either for ethical reasons or the pressures of the need to express this side of themselves more openly.

I do believe there are multiple ways of surviving this condition, as well as understanding that for some to survive psychologically, nothing less than complete openness would be valid. We're back to that old "one size doth not fitteth all..." mantra. (I believe Shakespeare used to say that about his tights... :))

Katey x

[sometimes_miss]

OK, just some random thoughts I had as I read through this thread:

I knew she wouldn't be happy about it, but I was 99% sure she would accept me no matter what, as she had already stuck with me through worse.
I, too, was sure that everything would work out O.K.; that all that was good about me would easily outweigh the one, single downside of crossdressing. I was terribly wrong. Sexual attraction is at the base of male-female marriage relationships, at least in the non-arranged marriage world. Screw that up, and your marriage is essentially toast, burned toast.

But it if your relationship is solid in every other way, it's one that can be adjusted to fairly easily. The caveat is that cross dressng can't be all consuming. If it is just a piece in your life, it would s easily manageable.
Doesn't matter if it's a large or small piece in your life. For a lot of women, it's a deal breaker. They simply are turned off by crossdressing.

so is one to accept a life of sadness and being alone if it just never works out... ?
This of course, is what many of us face. There simply aren't a lot of women out there who are interested in dating/marrying a guy who is a crossdresser.

Would you want the girl you fell in love with, to come along 3 yrs later and tell you that she was really not who you expected.
Couples face that every day, because no one can tell the other every single event that has happened to them through their life. The best that can be done is to tell what we think they need to know. However: What WE think they need to know, and what THEY think they need to know, are sometimes, disastrously, two very different things. It's been said more times than I can imagine, that if a woman is physically hot enough, a guy will overlook practically anything. That doesn't work the other way around. What our potential mates face, is something that can drastically affect whether they are attracted to us sexually, or turned off by it. When someone is sexually turned off, that's the beginning of the end of the relationship, because shortly after, they will start looking for a male to fill that void we've just created. Women stay with all kinds of bad men; rapists, wife beaters, murderers, violent prisoners, drunks, liars. The one thing in common, is that they're all still masculine. And the one thing that we screw up, is that masculine image that they're attracted to.

Those with understanding spouses have little idea as to how blessed they are.
I see this one over and over on this forum. Those are the 1%'ers in the CD world. It often appears that they have no clue as to how the rest of us live, or how the other 99% of wives react when they find out their 'man' isn't the man they thought he was, but a girly guy instead.

Basically CDing isn't a problem if your partner accepts it !
Now there's the understatement of the year!

And yet, if you don't stand up and fight for your right to simply be whom you are, no one else will fight for you either.
And yet, some of us just are exhausted from fighting. We don't want to live the rest of our lives in continuous confrontations, putting our lives out there for others to destroy as they wish. Because you don't always see the enemy coming. That's how we get killed. So we just stay out of the shooting range.

If I were you, I would admit early on to a minor fetish for women's lingerie (or whatever).
Uh, Jess, how many of your friends are married to crossdressers? Liking lingerie, and wanting to dress up entirely as a woman I'd think would be seen as two very different things. If you read the forums over at plentyoffish.com,you'll come across numerous threads about girls finding their guy trying on their panties or such, and the response is virtually 100% negative. That's the general population, not here in pink fog land.

I would offer up that timing is NOT everything. In some cases, regardless of rather you told early or late, they just don't like it and don't want any part of it. Ever.

Or they may be able to handle it. And THAT is the chief point.
However, the problem comes when they CAN'T handle it. Which is the majority of the time. Those of us who have found, and participate in this forum get blinded by the pink fog, and wind up crashing into a tree, so to speak.


It is the CD controlling what the SO knows and thus control their reaction, good or bad. The difference is how much you have invested early (not much) and later (a whole lot). And you keeping your SO from pursuing a life unfettered by YOUR crossdressing. It is selfish to take years and years from a person, and that is what you do by not telling them early, where they could be living with someone who doesn't hold secrets.
And yet, everyone has secrets. Maybe they don't think of them as secrets, but they are. Anything you don't tell your mate, is a secret. Anything. Had oral sex with your second girlfriend in the front seat of car, then 20 years later buy a restored vehicle of the same type, perhaps subconsciously wanting to remember the episode? Yup, that's a secret, whether you want to accept that or not, if you never told your wife about it because you didn't think it was important.
One of the things that bothered me was, throughout my life, I'd hear repeated stories about the same thing. Some women in her 40's or 50's would discover that her husband was unfaithful 20 years ago, and it would consume her, because she'd then believe that he wasn't the man she believed she had for all those years. And the marriage would fall apart. Yet, another would go on just fine because the husband didn't ever reveal that he'd fooled around. In many cases, yes, ignorance is bliss. What she doesn't know, doesn't hurt her. Think now; 75% of men, and over 50% of women, are unfaithful. How many spouses know? And how many go on through life, happy, BECAUSE they don't know? In the UK, some 10% of men unknowingly raise children that were fathered by other men. And this has been going on throughout history. So, it does bring up the question of, whether we can keep it out of the relationship well enough.
Oh, and one thing that women might be better able to tolerate is telling her, 'I USED to be a crossdresser', rather than 'I AM a crossdresser'. And if that passes muster, you can later try to see if you can ease doing it again into the conversation, say, maybe at Halloween or something. Just a thought.

[ReineD]

… Considering how my wife was raised and her life before me, for her to accept me as much as she has, I can only imagine how much easier if could have been for the both of us had I revealed early on.

You did tell her early on … didn't you tell her a few months after marriage? And you've been married for many years now? In other words, she has known for many more years that she didn't know?

Early telling is not always a guarantee of acceptance. Again, there are too many variables: religious objections, conservative values, a distaste for the crossdressing or what a wife may believe it stands for or means. And then there are the behaviors associated with the CDing, for the CDers for whom it is sexually charged. The wives or gfs of these CDers don't object to the CDing as much as they object to the seeming obsession.

But with all the information available now, there really is no excuse for someone beginning a relationship to not tell. I think that most CDers are aware there are many people who disapprove, and it is only fair to tell a partner before marriage. If she can't live with it then it is best to know this before a commitment is made.

As to the decision to tell or not after decades of marriage, I guess it depends on the need to tell. If it becomes a priority in a CDers life, then it's hard to continue to sneak around and he pretty well has to tell … like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. But if he only CDs occasionally and he's happy the rest of the time as a male, in other words if his male life and the people in it are his priority over the CDing, then I suppose there isn't a need to tell if he knows that his wife has conservative views.

[Jenniferathome]

...However, the problem comes when they CAN'T handle it. Which is the majority of the time. Those of us who have found, and participate in this forum get blinded by the pink fog, and wind up crashing into a tree, so to speak.
...

I have to call bull. There is zero data to support your "majority" statement. If this forum is your litmus test, then the opposite has been proven. Even the women here who hate cross dressing, overwhelmingly write about non-cross dressing behaviors or issues as the real problem. You want this to be a fact so as to have something to blame.

[Katey888]

Jennifer - unfortunately I don't think this forum is the litmus test... :)

We are fortunate to have a group of very supportive GGs/SOs here with us - a thread in Loved Ones testing whether the pre-knowledge would have been a deal-breaker had about half of the GGs agreeing that they would have had difficulty continuing the relationship if they were told. Beyond that we have an active member base that does seem to major in SOs that are aware, but that runs from participating, through accepting/tolerating, to DADT - and we see plenty of examples of long-term DADT relationships move to intolerance too.

I hesitate to suggest it, but for the benefit of newbies or those that deliberately excise the memory because of the trauma it generally causes, a few minutes spent browsing the posts on crossdresserswives.com (a support forum specifically for non-accepting spouses) shows the flip side of the coin that we don't see here because it simply would not be tolerated.

This forum can't be the litmus test on its own, but you can't call bull without opening up your perspective to those other sites too. And for individuals, any debate over what the stats actually are seems irrelevant to me: this is relationship Russian roulette - some folk get lucky; some don't - the disparity between the two outcomes can be catastrophic and are absolute for individuals. It is just as dangerous for folk to base any judgments on data that is drawn from a high proportion of successful outcomes (this forum) as the opposite.

Everyone needs to be wary of what is often couched in 'factual' terms here... :)

Katey x

[Melanie Z]

OK, just some random thoughts I had as I read through this thread:

Originally Posted by Melanie Z
---
I knew she wouldn't be happy about it, but I was 99% sure she would accept me no matter what, as she had already stuck with me through worse.
---

I, too, was sure that everything would work out O.K.; that all that was good about me would easily outweigh the one, single downside of crossdressing. I was terribly wrong. Sexual attraction is at the base of male-female marriage relationships, at least in the non-arranged marriage world. Screw that up, and your marriage is essentially toast, burned toast.


The situation for others may be different from what it was for me. I was speaking specifically about my SO there, you'd have to know her to understand. I would hardly say our relationship is based on sexual attraction, though our sexual relationship is doing fine. We're more like best friends, with romantic love added on top. She is so dedicated to me, even after the reveal her greatest fear was that I would leave her - and I love her just as deeply. When I said she had "already stuck with me through worse" it probably was not the best choice of words - what I meant was that she had stayed with me through my darkest hours of dealing with crippling mental illness, and compared to that, knowing her as I do, I didn't see how crossdressing could be a big enough problem to break up our relationship. She's open minded and socially liberal, it's more a matter of "not in my backyard", or rather, "my man wouldn't want to do that". I don't know what might happen in the future, but from where I'm sitting, things are looking okay. At the moment, she's still kind of in bargaining mode, or maybe thinking she can "fix" me, but at the same she is trying to be okay with it and I appreciate that.

[Tina_gm]

RenieD #56- I do not consider my reveal to be early on. Although earlier than many on here. Early on to me is weeks, or at most a few months, when a relationship typically moves into a more committed phase. It was 6 months into my marriage, and a total of 3 and a half years from the time we 1st started dating. By that time, she had what she thought was complete knowledge of me as a person. It was her decision to marry based on what she thought was her full knowledge of me as a person.

I agree too that an early (er) reveal is not a guarantee of acceptance, nor is a later one a guarantee of non acceptance. It does up the odds significantly however. It allows a partner to grow into it from the formative stages of a relationship, and avoids so many of the difficulties of the shock, insecurities, broken trust.

What is also very important is how any person with whatever gender issues they have deals with it, and how the revealing process goes. How patient we are with a partner who has little or no experience of transgender people. What compromises, if any are needed are we willing to forge, and that we honor those. Open honest communication is also extremely vital. Otherwise, a partial disclosure will only likely end up like the initial shock feeling repeated over and over. The broken trust and insecurities will also likely keep re occurring.


I just wasted space and time for 80% of the people who read this thread. For the 20% of the people who will taken an active read, that is better than nothing, and far better than I could have said it, along with the rest of the post of which I quoted you from, thank you.

[Samantha Clark]

It's easy and tempting to generalize from anecdotal evidence. At the end of the day, each situation is unique and highly dependent on the individuals. The outcome of any particular person's situation cannot be predicted because each individual situation is a singularity. In my own case, the response of my wife is unique to my spouse and our long relationship. It's unique and cannot be predicted based on the experience of others. And her response cannot predict the response of other wives/SOs.

[Jenniferathome]

Jennifer - unfortunately I don't think this forum is the litmus test... :)

...

And you may very well be right. But there is no other data produced scientifically that can allow for a comment like, "the majority of time."

[ReineD]

... a thread in Loved Ones testing whether the pre-knowledge would have been a deal-breaker had about half of the GGs agreeing that they would have had difficulty continuing the relationship if they were told.

I think I was among those who said that likely our relationship would not have progressed to the romantic stage, had I been told immediately. It's important to note that most GGs who've had no exposure to the CDing have no idea what it can mean to a potential SO. I used to think that CDers wanted to be women and most were gay, and so I would have written off my SO as a non-prospect.

The point is, it is generally not wise to tell GGs before they've developed feelings, in fact I don't think it is wise to shout it off the rooftops to anyone. But once a GG falls in love, my guess is that most will not give up the relationship just because of the CDing, unless she is extremely religious or has staunch conservative values.

Another issue is raising the bar considerably after telling a SO. If in the beginning the CDing is a pleasant occasional activity, but it then morphs into the dreaded PINK FOG with its sometimes associated undesirable behaviors (fantasizing about men, porn, excessive shopping and hiding clothing, hiding outings, excessive time spent preoccupied with it, in other words not being present in the relationship), then a GG's opinion can sour, as she would with any other non-CDing obsession her SO might be caught up in.

[Jenniferathome]

...- a thread in Loved Ones testing whether the pre-knowledge would have been a deal-breaker had about half of the GGs agreeing that they would have had difficulty continuing the relationship if they were told. ....

and Katey, on this idea, I find it amazing that only 50% would have reservations continuing in a relationship in which they have nothing vested. Imagine how high the % must be for that wife in a long and loving relationship!

[Katey888]

So Jennifer...


Imagine how high the % must be for that wife in a long and loving relationship!

What you're saying is: If you want a higher percentage probability in a successful reveal, don't tell at the outset, but keep it buried, build a relationship, do lot's of other things (kids, career, life, etc.) and THEN reveal a couple of decades later...? :thinking:

All you have to do is manage the internal stress if you can... or you may find you never need to reveal it. If for some reason the urge is too much, it may not be better, but it will give you a higher probability of maintaining a relationship if your SO already has time and (some) trust invested... even higher if there are kids involved or not...? I can only imagine that some SOs would never overcome the trust issue if (as most of us here believe to some degree) they thought that this thing we claim to be innate was genetic and possibly hereditary... How would anyone feel if their partner passed on a lifelong genetic condition to one's offspring... or perhaps it leaps a generation or two...

Actually - I think that's probably the only rational thought that trumps all other positions for me: IF this was hereditary, how many fathers here would want their sons or daughters to carry this gene, if you knew for sure...

I think there might be a whole subject thread in that thought... :confused:

Katey x

[Jenniferathome]

Come on Katey, you know that is not the implication at all. You can reread the analogy if you like.

Now, as to heredity, if one knew one passed it on, you should inform, but that is not the case here. Not all hereditary or genetic traits are passed on.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

I am enjoying & learning from the responses of Reine, Katey & jennifer... Good banter!

[Stephanie47]

When personal position on acceptance or rejection in response to the reveal is the "unknown." How long did it take for your fiancee or wife to really get to know you? Drop the bomb shell after several months and there is a strong possibility she will think "Who is this guy? What am I getting into?" I've seen time and time again on this forum women starting out being OK with cross dressing until it takes over the relationship. Then it's overpowering and destructive. Some women will see cross dressing only as some sort of perversion and bail out. The entire issue of "deceit" seems to be centered on the women not having a chance to evaluate her intended spouse's quirk or other personna with respect to societal norms. It seems if the woman truly knows her husband and his qualities, positive and negative, then cross dressing will probably not blow up the marriage. It seems many women accept DADT as a compromise. That's my wife and I.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Actually - I think that's probably the only rational thought that trumps all other positions for me: IF this was hereditary, how many fathers here would want their sons or daughters to carry this gene, if you knew for sure...



Wow, interesting thought and one that as a mother has crossed my mind and I'll admit to watching my children for signs of crossdressing, just in case. If this were hereditary, I can say 100% I wouldn't have stayed with my H. I would not want my son to suffer as his father has - no way!

Of course, I don't believe this is entirely genetic so I'm not freaking out...yet, lol. A combination of things is my belief, involving a predisposition toward compulsions with some childhood imprinting thrown in. Just my thoughts, but I wouldn't be surprised if my children struggle with lifelong compulsions, too, or other personality traits my H possesses. This is likely another thread entirely as you mentioned, Katey.

As for the reveal, I don't think there's a crystal ball for this and I'd bet MOST women would prefer their partner didn't crossdress. But as I've mentioned a couple of times, MOST women also won't immediately toss away a relationship over this and if the husband is one of the good guys and not a Pink Fog narcissist lost in selfish land, then he will prioritise the relationship over this one part of himself and show her it's not a big deal. If he loses it and disappears into Crossdressing land, informing her that she just needs to accept this brand new person and situation in her life (as so many here have done!) then he deserves the divorce papers he will ultimately be served.