Do you not want to be girly as a guy?

[JenniferYager]

My wife and I were out at the Lush store a few days ago, enjoying the scents and picking out new stuff. One of the store associates was male (making me slightly envious of his job, although probably not his pay) and had on skinny jeans. At the time, it bothered me.

Which is weird, because I have no problems wearing such jeans as a crossdresser. For me it wasn't the jeans, it was that he was a guy and should be wearing guy clothes if he's presenting as a guy.

Has anyone else had this conundrum? That you're bothered by men wearing something effeminate, but wouldn't have a problem if they were to crossdress?

And yes, I realize the irony was that I was in the Lush store with my wife, something most men wouldn't do...

[kimgirl]

I think I used to have a problem with it, but as time goes by less and less.

Over here skinny jeans, tee shirts, hair styles are becoming more and more androgynous in the current fashions. In fact sometimes it is difficult to tell whether they are M or F, but all this is mainly with youngsters. And generally now it is quite the norm for men to wear bracelets and jewellery. I find I am saying to myself or my wife, "I like those jeans" or "I wouldn't wear that" irrespective of what gender they are presenting. Often it's the way it's worn or the mannerisms that make the difference. However, the way some men wear their jeans half way down their butts I think looks ridiculous.

Did you get anything good at Lush?

[JenniferYager]

So White shower gel :)

http://www.lushusa.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Lush-Site/en_US/Search-Show?q=white%20christmas

[kimgirl]

Ooooo............I bet that smells lovely

[Helen_Highwater]

Jennifer,
I've lost count of the threads were folks here talk about wearing fem jeans and other items but aiming for an androgynous look. Personally I see nothing wrong in blurring the lines between male and female clothing. There's a live thread at the moment about the 3rd gender. Why shouldn't there be a gender spectrum, people sitting somewhere along a line rather than being X or Y. A bit like autism and dyslexia sit on a scale, different but share some common traits. Ending stereotypes is a way to end some forms of bigotry. Apologies if it seems like I'm having "a go", I mean it as a point of view not a criticism.

I have a general test of someone's actions; "Does what they do cause anyone harm?" If the answer is no them who am I to stop them doing it? I don't let it bother me, I just get on with life.

[bimini1]

Interesting observation. If you're gonna present male, be all man. Female, all woman. For me it's like that. But I'm not botherd by someone else mixing it up. Not in the least. Your thang is just your thang, and as long as it doesn't involve violating the civil rights of another person, I'm going to help you be who you are.

[Kate Simmons]

Since I'm in touch with ALL my feelings, the lines are kind of blurred for myself, so it doesn't matter to me.:)

[Adriana Moretti]

so a guy..presenting as a guy has on skinny jeans...and this bothers you?? You obviously have not been to brooklyn in the past 6 or so years its the normal...well as normal as brooklyn hipsters can be ...please watch the video... and as much as you hate the music the lyrics are pure poetry .....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs6u3at4jTw

[Heather_Shirly]

I just don't see why anyone would want to wear skinny jeans to begin with!

[Adriana Moretti]

me either but realize how stupid that sounds while you say it wearing a skirt........

[I Am Paula]

Mix it up all you want. Heels look wonderful with a business suit.

[Marcelle]

Hi Jennifer,

I would be a hypocrite if I said it did not bother me on some level . . . now before anyone goes WTF Isha I will qualify that statement. When I first see a guy who is dressing and acting effeminate my mind goes "Hmmm . . . what's up with that" much in the same manner I figure people do when they see my ugly mug with make-up and me all girly. It doesn't mean I am bothered on a deep "I don't like that guy" level, it is just my mind making sense of contrary information. However, I have found over the past year of exploring Isha, that feeling is less and less and I don't normally bat an eye . . . to their own.

Hugs

Isha

[~Joanne~]

While I keep both sides (for the lack of a better term or phrase) separate, I may have a moment of questioning to myself but in the end, to each their own. I know I wouldn't want anyone questioning my choices if I chose to wear women's jeans mixed with my drab attire.

[Renee Elise]

Hi Jennifer, totally agree...probably due to our own programming and preferences. When I am in guy mode I want to be unambiguously Dude, whether I'm dressed in a suit or sweats. No girly traces anywhere. When I'm dressed as a girl, I go all out feminine. Like in Ghostbusters, I don't like crossing the streams!

[Ressie]

Well there are skinny jeans in the young men's department, so how does wearing them make a guy effeminate? I remember being in shock when baggy jeans were the new style. Seems to go back and forth like women's hemlines. Maybe the discomfort has to do with unconscious homosexual feelings that haven't been dealt with?

[suchacutie]

A few years ago I went on a diet for health reasons and lost 35 pounds in 3 months, and I've lost another 10 pounds since. Nothing fit, and one afternoon I went out to buy new jeans. I came home with what I thought were great-looking guy jeans. My wife took one look and pronounced them terrible, as they just didn't fit well with my new physique. We went looking together and after an afternoon of complete failure decided that the cut of male jeans just didn't work.

We did my measurements and realized that low-rise size8 jeans should fit from Victorias Secret. They did.

I don't at all act effeminate as a male, and don't buy jeans (except for Tina) that would clearly be girl jeans. The last statistic I saw indicated that 10% of women's jeans are bought to be worn by men. I just don't see an issue.

[Alleyne66]

Where I live, skinny jeans are for girls PERIOD. And it's so darn annoying:sad: I am practically addicted to those tight trousers but I am too scared to wear them outside. Even my wife agrees that it is a shame because she likes the way they look on me.

Oh edit. I also have a lot of issues with male pants because of my figure. They all look like potato bags on me.

[Bria]

I think that our thinking on this subject is a product of the period of time that we grew up. I'm in my 70s and tend to dress as a guy much the same way guys dressed 40 years ago, if I go to church, out for dinner with my wife, to a board meeting, I wear a shirt, tie and a sport coat (I do wear pants too). Sometime in drab I will wear girl jeans that have modest design on the pocket, but for the most part I'm either full guy or full girl.

Due I care what others do? I suppose that I may raise an eyebrow if someone dresses in a manner that isn't appropriate for the venue, or activity. That said, when I was young nobody wore jeans to church and now it is totally acceptable.

Times change and if we don't we quickly get relegated to the round file.

My 2 cents!

Hugs, Bria

[Krisi]

I wear women's jeans as a guy but not "skinny jeans. They just fit me better than "guy" jeans.

If you go out looking "girly" in guy mode, most people will thing you are gay. If you are gay or don't care, that's fine. Otherwise, it's best to dress as a guy when you are in "guy mode" and dress as a female when in "female mode".

[Lynn Marie]

In my youth I pushed the envelope in clothing, vehicles, and extreme sports. I'm older now, have nothing to prove, nor am I interested in shocking or even surprising others. Nothing's changed with the youth in their rebellion against the rules their parents lived by. The good thing about mixed clothing is their loss of fear about their own sexuality. The fear of being thought of as gay was an incredibly evil thing to have to grow up with.

[Sissy_Michelle]

Jennifer,
So with that said does it bother you that some guys under dress only due to work or other family issues? Or how about when a girl wears her husband's shirt or sweats? My favorite.... A GG is wearing 501 Levis blue jeans ! The horror! I should be upset because she is wearing men's clothes in public !

Most of everyone wishes that everyone wouldn't be so judgmental and they could wear whatever they wish to wear without being chastised or judged.

@--}---
Michelle

[sometimes_miss]

Being girly as a guy isn't seen as a positive thing by the world. Girly guys are referred to as wimps, wussies, puss!es, fags, light in the loafers, etc. etc.. 'He's so sensitive' is usually used as an insult. There are no positive descriptions for men who have feminine attributes.

I'm very careful not to give any clues that there is anything feminine about me; I already work in a predominantly female field, in which any male is automatically considered gay unless proven otherwise. However I was married for quite some time, and date some rather very good looking women, who would acknowledge that I'm 'all man'. Yes, I'm a good actor, too.

[Mia Brankovic]

Hi Jennifer...

I've been wearin' skinny jeans, forever...and nobody has ever mentioned it, called me on it, or questioned it...perhaps, it has something to do with presentation; however, I'm quite effeminate...always formed and trimmed the eyebrows (and the like). And I live in a rural area...things get 'round, round here!

I have broken that barrier...Of things that most men wouldn't do...because I have seem what many men are capable of...I'm not like that, end...

Ciao,
Mia

BTW: Same goes with waist cincher...those things are excellent for defining the Abs!

[CONSUELO]

It strikes me that if we look for tolerance from the people around us as we cross dress, underdress, sport ear studs etc. etc., shouldn't we also practice tolerance and acceptance ourselves.

I come across gay men who dress very flamboyantly in all sorts of clothing. I did find myself once being a little shocked at this but quickly questioned my motives. If I like to turn up to a restaurant presenting as a female, I should be relaxed about a male who presents in some way other than a "conventional" one. Now I actually find the flamboyant dress of many young males to be very interesting.

Human beings are innately conservative. It may be something that harks back to our ancestry. We tend to be distrustful or suspicious of those who look and dress differently. As cross dressers we break those conventions and we seek acceptance from others of our looks and behaviour. Surely the quid pro quo is that we accept, even celebrate, the breaking of dressing conventions by others.

[Beverley Sims]

I think I get the look" from people because I wear skinny jeans and boots.
Those that comment in a positive way, and that is most think they are riding boots and my dres looks stylish.
I am not enthusiastic about the outgoing pedantic gay guy who wants to hit on you all the time.
He is not necessarily dressed effeminate.

[Stephanie47]

It does not bother me to see men or women mixing it up. I think an employer has a right to dictate how an employee present himself or herself when representing a company. Me? What I wear is a projection of my mind set. Most of the time my mindset is male. It's regular men's jeans, tee shirts or casual shirt, sweat socks and athletic shoes, unshaven up to three days. When Stephanie wants to come out for whatever reason I want to feel as though I am a woman, then it is a pretty dress, hosiery, heels, proper undergarment and a wig. Both sides of my being do not wish to confuse the issue. It's either hot or cold, not both!

[Rhian]

I think your views are a bit out of date here, there's nothing effeminate about wearing skinny jeans and a lot of my friends wear them. I have pairs of both mens and womens skinny jeans and when I'm wearing them I don't consider myself to be acting feminine or cross dressing, it's just what's in fashion at the minute. I have a bright purple pair of mens skinny jeans and nobody has made a comment or suspects I may be a cross dresser because they are completely standard for men, nobody has even commented on them. I personally think they look a lot better than normal jeans, feel better than normal jeans and girls prefer lads in them. The next time you see a band on the TV look at what they are wearing and the chances are they will be skinny jeans.

They're also more practical for gigs and nightclubs as you can feel your phone and wallet against your leg so you'd know if you lost either instantly.

[char GG]

The mainstream department stores (such as JC Penny) sell skinny jeans in the men's department. They look great on my husband and he does not look girly or look like he's trying to "blur the lines". He has the body to pull off that style. I don't see anything wrong with macho men in skinny jeans.

[Mia Brankovic]

Beverley...I don't want to 'hi-jack' this thread; however, ***Fashion Alert *** I would never wear skinny jeans with my cowboy boots...it just doesn't look right?

[Annaliese]

Not at all I were girl book cut jeans, cowgirl boots everyday, and most day in the winter girl sweaters. Every day I dress as my self, I don't want to be a girl, I am one.

[Lisajanne]

I like to mix things up -- gender blend together. I don't think it makes me anymore or less feminine or masculine. Its just what I like to do.

[Isabella Ross]

I'm probably a product of my age (51), but I'm either going to be all man or all woman. However, I think it's fantastic that others (particularly younger people) are blurring the gender lines with androgynous dressing -- it's definitely helping our cause.

[Jamie001]

I usually wear women's capri pants, a men's shirt, women's sandals, professionally pedicured bright red toenails, women's purse, and a feminine hairstyle as a feminine male. When folks see me, they know that I am playing for the girl's team. After all, women incorporate accessories from the men's side of the store all of the time and there are many articles in women's magazines that describe how to accessorize with men's clothing. I am proud to not to be part of the restrictive binary gender mindset. I am a Jane Girl which is the opposite of a Tom Boy.

[Ressie]

I tried on a pair of men's skinny jeans. Let's just say the look is incongruous with my age and weight. Maybe I could wear women's skinnies or leggings enfemme, but not while presenting as my usual male self ;)

[Teresa Monsivais]

I just don't see why anyone would want to wear skinny jeans to begin with!

Just a wild guess...because they like them


Mix it up all you want. Heels look wonderful with a business suit.

Would love to do that.

[charlenesomeone]

Been wearing girls jeans out quite a lot. No stitching on the pockets (GV)
The only problem is that there is no room for all I have to carry and the purse would be
a dead give away.

[Kate T]

If that is how it made you feel then I think it is time to take a good long hard look in the mirror and reassess your own prejudices. We all need to do that every so often. Hell, I think I need to do it on a daily basis!

[Melanie Z]

I definitely fall into the camp with those that stick to one or the other, at a time. I have no desire to be anything but masculine as a guy. Only when I dress do I want to be girly. I have no issue with anyone who likes to blur the line, though.

EDIT: Not long after the reveal, my SO said to me, "You know, it's pretty common for guys to wear jewelry nowadays, we could get you like a guy's necklace..." Yeah, that's not gonna cut it for me, hon.

[Dianne S]

I'm not bothered by what other people wear. About the only exception I can think of would be a t-shirt with a racist or offensive slogan. But I definitely don't care about others' style.

As for myself: I usually wear women's jeans in guy mode; no-one has commented. In girl mode I do tend to prefer more feminine things like skirts and dresses rather than pants. I figure I spend all my guy time in pants, so I might was well wear pretty feminine things during girl time!

[FayeXD]

I don't really see a problem with guys wearing skinny jeans.

Whether or not we're crossdressing, or dressing normally. We wear what we want, when we want to!

(personally, I would never wear skinny jeans though -- unless I'm dressing up)

[Julie Denier]

I'm either all guy or all girl ... would like to be the girl a little more often than I am able, but enjoy being a guy and feel no desire to blur the lines ;)

[Diane Smith]

I mix things up quite a bit in my day to day appearance, so it would be the height of hypocrisy for me to criticize anyone else for their gender-inappropriate style choices. But that's different from disliking the look of something just because it's stupid or ugly or doesn't fit right. Skinny jeans, or loose baggy ones for that matter, are made for a specific body type and work best on people who fall within the parameters they're designed for.

Actually, I kind of go out of my way to do business with the SAs who are dressed a little unconventionally, and I've been known to take a detour across the mall to greet and compliment someone who is wearing something interesting in a gender-unique way. I also relish the times I get comments on some of my own unusual fashion choices -- a woman at the hairdresser's Wednesday made sure to mention how much she liked my earrings, for example.

- Diane

[JaytoJillian]

When I see a guy expressing his feminine side while dressed as how our society dictates that guys should dress, I am a little envious and an equal part in awe. With all the narrow minds out there, it takes real huevos to be you when doing so doesn't fit the mold. I wish I had the courage and the sense of freedom these guys must have.

Cheers,


Jill

[Rhian]

I thought it was probably a generational thing when I first saw this thread but I spoke to my a about it and he said him and friends wore skinny jeans when and had piercings when he was a lad; so I assume it's a cultural thing. I'm from Northern England and skinny jeans and piercings aren't considered effeminate, they're just a standard part of a young mans wardrobe. If you look on the River Island website there are more skinny jeans for men than the other types put together http://www.riverisland.com/men/jeans/_/N-7uq

[devida]

I don't wear skinny jeans. At this time of year when it actually gets below 60 in Florida I wear tights. If it gets really cold I wear cropped and tight pants over the tights. I carry a purse because neither tights nor the pants or shorts I wear have pockets. Most women recognize I am wearing make up, lipstick, mascara etc. Probably a few men do too.

I'm not trying to dress male or female, really. I dress for myself and I wear what I find comfortable. As far as I can tell, even though I never see anyone, man or woman, who dresses quite the way I do. The way I dress does not cause much attention. It doesn't frighten the horses. The natives don't get restless. If people are curious about me they sometimes ask what I do for a living. Sometimes they compliment me, sometimes they frown, but mostly they care as much about the way I dress as I care about the way they dress. Which is very little.

It really isn't anybody else's business what I wear unless they are selling me clothes and sales assistants are the very last people who are going to criticise me for buying myself a blouse or a dress.

I read many threads here about the concerns forum members have about other people criticising them for wearing clothes usually worn by women, or outing them for wearing something that is purportedly gender inappropriate. This just is not something that is part of my experience. Because I read about it here I keep looking for it but it just doesn't seem to be part of my world. I am pretty puzzled that my experience is so different from what others have. It is true that I am not trying to present myself as a woman but concerns over the femininity of skinny jeans. Really? Nobody says anything to me when they surely must notice the shape of my bra under my tight blouses.

[MissTee]

I am wired so linear when it comes to this topic. Guy goes in the guy bucket; girl goes in the girl bucket. No in between. I could perhaps train myself to process differently, but it would take a lot of effort.

[Allisa]

Is it just the clothing or any thing considered femme? I myself wear bangle bracelets every day, everywhere, my long hair down and blowing free or some times collected in a hair clip in the back, and almost always with mascara and clear polished nails with a shiny top coat, next is getting my ears pierced and who knows what style earrings? of course under dressing (panties) every day and now wearing leggings under my "male" pants. I'm hoping to one day wear a skirt if the muse hits me.

[lynda]

hi , im a guitar player,been in lots of bands, my male role models were steve tyler , mick jagger and kieth richards and of course danid bowie so you can see where my style of dressing came from .lol hugs love lynda

[Tina_gm]

I understand that somewhat weird initial feeling. It doesn't offend me at all. I personally don't want to be noticed for dressing or presenting in an obvious feminine way. But for others who do, ultimately it is about what makes them feel good.

I wonder too if sometimes when I get that mildly uncomfortable feeling seeing a guy making obvious attempts at feminine expression that I see how much it stands out.... or maybe I am not concealed as much as I want to be?

[RachelPortugal]

I have been wearing skinny jeans since the 70's. My wife even admits that my skinny jeans were what first attracted her to me.

I was really pleased with the advent of jeggings and the greater availability of skinny jeans in the stores. I had a couple of old pairs that needed retiring. Now instead of just denim blues skinny jeans I have some less unisex colours in my wardrobe.

What other people choose to think is their own business, but I have never noticed or received any adverse reactions to me wearing lipstick pink jeggings or burgundy skinny jeans, which I generally team up with converse shoes to match. On one occasion when I wore black ballet flats with skinny jeans I did notice a woman point them out to a girlfriend, but that was for the obviously femme shoes.

I see no problem with mixing and matching cloths that society may deem as specifically male or female, although personally I would not present as a man in a skirt or dress. On the rare occasion that I am able to go out in skirt or dress I like to try to be passable in heels, wig, make-up and breast forms. I know I don't pass, but I hope that people regard me as just another person, who happens to be transgendered.

BTW. I would never be seen in a Lush store with my wife, however I was presenting. She can't stand the overpowering aromas. Nor can I, so we try to give them a wide berth.

[atxpantyboy]

Threads like this remind me of how much I probably don't belong here. I LOVE to blur the gender lines a little bit, always have, and have never respected society's arbitrary gender rules. If people think I'm gay, well, that's awesome, because I am indeed bisexual and don't really care to form any close relationships with anyone who is not accepting of LGBT lifestyles, be they friends or more. I'm frankly a bit shocked by how judgmental some of you are about it, too, and how much everyone links gender and sexuality. I get it if partially dressing is not for you personally, but to judge other CDers or guys who wear feminine clothing in guy mode? I just don't get it. Don't we come to this forum largely for the acceptance of others in a similar situation?

[vicky_cd99_2]

Since my leg size won't allow me to wear skinny jeans I don't. My guy life doesn't mix well with blending or bending gender roles or dress I can't mix the two. I wish I could a lot of the time. I look at how some of the girls are dressed and can only wish. I am envious of you girls who can do both.

[Teresa]

Jennifer,
It does happen more in certain shops, I can't say it bothers me but you don't say how you were dressed ! You don't get many guys dressed butch in those kind of stores anyway, so perhaps the management encourage it, or at least don't discourage it ! It just looks trendy !!

I couldn't wear them without some serious tucking unless I had a tunic top on !

[dana 1]

I would like to see female jeans with deeper pockets.