So...if it's an emotional NEED to cross-dress... [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Mia Brankovic

12-07-2014, 07:57 AM

So...if it's an emotional NEED to cross-dress; then Cross-dressing is not a “fetish” (by definition...see below).

Fetish: (noun)
1. an object regarded with awe as being the embodiment or habitation of a potent spirit or as having magical potency. (Uhm, Nope. Mia)
2. any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion:
to make a fetish of high grades. (hmm, maybe... Mia)
3. Psychology. any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation. (Uhm, Nope. Mia)
Source: dictionary.com

From above: “2. any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion:
to make a fetish of high grades.” I have no problem with: reverence, respect, or devotion...in fact, these are traits to be nurtured? Oh...the 'unquestioning' part...have you read our threads??? lol Oh Yea...we are an 'unquestioning lot' aren't we? ;)

In fact, in my case anyway...sexual stimulation doesn't count in my “Top 5~” reasons for Mia's transition. Could we please explore the emotional side of Cross-dressing? The 'Evolution of the More Feminine Traits”...only because, I'm starting to really loosen the reigns upon my emotions, lately.

Take care & be well,
Mia

Tina B.

12-07-2014, 10:43 AM

It's hard to discuss the emotional side of cross dressing. I get down, I dress, I get up, I have no idea why this happens, it just does.
It's easy to talk about the clothes, the hardships of finding the time, or talking about DADT relationships, these things are all external, but talking about the internal is really hard, because it gets very close to home, and has been kept suppressed for a life time.
But for me, at my age sexual thrill of it left years ago, it's more about the inter peace I find when dressed, no matter what is going on, I feel better in a dress.
I don't think I'm a women in a man's body, and I have no doubt when looking in a mirror, it's a mans body. (no not the dangly down bits) I'm talking about the need for all of that padding to fill out the clothes! But back to my point, while I can't say why, I can say even just hanging around the house, I feel better if I'm dressed, than I do in drab. And if not fully dressed, at least partly dressed will do as good Even just underdressed is better, and if all else is not available to me at the time, at least a little nail polish on my toes helps me feel complete. It doesn't take much some days to bring out the inter girl in me.
It use to be manly about the clothes, but it's less about the clothes, and more about the inner feelings, and it gets easier and easier for me to find my inter women.
Not sure this is what you had in mind, but you asked!

NicoleScott

12-07-2014, 11:12 AM

There is no single "it" (what drives the desire to crossdress). Many definitions include, in addition to the clothing part, for sexual or emotional reasons. Sexual, that seems pretty clear, but emotional is quite broad. One crossdresser's emotional need may be different than another's. I think you have to examine your own emotional need to crossdress, since you have eliminated (or largely dismissed) sex.

Mia Brankovic

12-07-2014, 11:14 AM

Hi Tina...thank you so very much for sharing that! and that is exactly what I'd like to discuss...the 'really hard internal' emotions; because (in your 2nd paragraph) you basically dismissed (or condensed) all the other stuff down to: a lil' nail polish is enough to satisfy the Inner Goddess!

talonX

12-07-2014, 11:46 AM

I'm currently coming out of a stretch of not desiring to dress, but what I remember is the more I embraced it, the less fetishistic or erotic much of it became, and more it just started to feel like a natural part of me and my life, which was great. I'm not in a position right now where I can dress at all (got into a relationship duringthe latency period) and I'll take the regular, normal feeling of it all over the almost insatiable compulsion I feel right now.

I will say too, that my dressing does take a fetishistic turn too - thigh boots, leather, etc - but that also transformed into helping me feel empowered.

I haven't thought about all this for a long time...thinking about all this feel like opening up a long closed up, dusty room to the outdoors and fresh air...

Rachelakld

12-07-2014, 01:10 PM

As a male, I get low periods of emotional instability, argumentive and as the kids say grumpy.

The psychics tell me I have a split personality, which creates inner-turmoil.
Personally, I think as a male many years ago, I unlocked the female and allowed her to express herself, and now she likes to have her time in the light (I think she causes the grumpiness if locked away for a period of time)

Switching modes, I'm at peace, relaxed, open to considering others more (wife & kids all agree on this point).

Kandi Robbins

12-07-2014, 05:10 PM

I honestly don't think there is anything else like it in life in terms of why. I have a theory, tell me what you think. Most of us have started very young. At that time in our development, many things we learn or experience get hard wired into our minds. When we experience the same thing as adults, we process our experiences much differently, and at that time things become choices, not urges driving us to find answers why.

While I am beginning to embrace my feminine side, it took a damn long time to do so. Much self loathing and waste. My first experience was at the age of 5 and I believe crossdressing immediately became hard wired in me. I had no choice after that. Make any sense? I'll be watching and learning.

CynthiaD

12-07-2014, 05:59 PM

For me:

Yes, it's necessary to dress. No, it is not a fetish, it has nothing to do with the sex act. No, it's not a hobby. I've had lots of hobbies and this is something completely different.

Mia Brankovic

12-07-2014, 06:14 PM

WOW...thank you for your candidness!

k, first...thigh high leather boots are in no WAY a fetish...they are simply a sign that you are an excellent shoe shopper with great style! Yes, I am! ;)

Since my daughter is aware of my exploits...my daughter has agreed to monitor my psyche for schisms...so...my daughter, and you folks...will be acting as my 'reality anchor'...YES...Rachel...I am somewhat concerned 'bout the whole split personality issue. Mia's persona is starting to interact with others out there...uhm, Flirtin's becoming a way of life...I don't even have to say anything...I think it's in my eyes...pure happiness is a great aphrodisiac, no? Maybe it's my self-confidence...I can't wait to venture out...and I would like to find somebody from this site to do that with...WOW, I digress (Oops!)
"Opening a pre-opened door"...exactly...I feel as though I'm specifically searching for something? Something that I have known in the past...

"process our experiences much differently" Kandi...who is new to our community!! Welcome Kandi, and thank you for weighing in...major issue for a 'newbie', no? WOW! Getting back to that most wonderful observation; "process our experiences much differently"...Why, Kandi...I was just discussing something very similar in a different thread...it may have been the shoe one? Anyway...I was discussing the difference between how Males may view their environment in one perspective, and Females would view the exact same environment in a totally different perspective (mind-set)...Also, would this be an instinctual response carried down from our origins? (if that's the case, then...)

I would like to stay away from the scientific/medical models (it'll come down to hormone and neurological chemical release...just wait)...and let the emotions have their say...

kneehighs

12-07-2014, 09:41 PM

My view on the emotional need is that before we form concepts, before we think in words, and before we begin to think in logical abstractions, we go through an infantile phase in which the universe of our mind consists of sensation and imagery. Our mothers are often the first relationship we enjoy and since we can't articulate our relationship in words, we articulate that infantile relationship with symbols of our mothers presence. Those visual symbols represent our feelings.

If the mother for some reason abandons or rejects us at this infantile age (0-2 years), it creates anxiety in us. An infant will panic wondering where mommy went. How can he get mommy back? Scream? Cry? Since as infants we don't have the emotional or cognitive resources to cure this separation, we create in our minds symbols of mommy's unbroken presence in our lives. Often, this symbol takes the form of women's clothing. Since the symbol of mommy's comforting presence is her pretty appearance, we re-create that pretty appearance as adults since it alleviates our anxieties we endured as infants.

Paula_Femme

12-07-2014, 09:56 PM

...the more I embraced it, the less fetishistic or erotic much of it became, and more it just started to feel like a natural part of me and my life...

I can agree with TalonX above in as much as my 'dressing originally started as a sexual/fetishistic thrill, but as the years went on, the sexual element became less pronounced and I began to be aware of deeper, more profound emotional feelings when I was dressed, which is how I feel about it today, it fulfills an emotional need.

Mia Brankovic

12-07-2014, 09:57 PM

WOW, Kneehighs...that makes sense...

so, on the lighter side: not only can I blame my mother for passing-on the male pattern baldness trait...I can use the same argument for my cross-dressing, due to abandonment issues? I'm good with that ;)

Paula: The softer emotional side superseded the sexual connection? Would you say that the sexual/emotional perspective gradually transitions?

Paula_Femme

12-07-2014, 10:19 PM

...Would you say that the sexual/emotional perspective gradually transitions?

Hi Mia

Not in everyone by a long shot, for some, even in my age group, mid 50's, it's still primarily a sexual turn-on, but for many, and I have no ideal of the numbers or %'s, the sexual aspect diminishes over time and the emotional response, feelings of calm, happiness, of it being "right," come to the fore. It's difficult to quantify, but for me it's something like a 25/75 split between the sexual and emotional responses.

All the best
Paula

melanie206

12-07-2014, 11:55 PM

I'm no expert but not all fetishes are directly about sex. Some seek to be dominant or submissive, it seems, to experience those feelings without things leading to sex. Therefore, when crossdressing gets discounted by some as a fetish in an attempt to simplify their understanding of it they fail to adequately consider either concept.

ReineD

12-08-2014, 01:57 AM

Here is an article to consider if only for background: Behavioral Addictions: Do They Exist (http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~knutson/bad/holden01.pdf)?

It's a question, not a conclusion. It would also be good to get past the negative implication of the word, "addiction".

They mostly examine the severe end of well-known addictions/compulsions: drugs, alcohol, gambling, food, shopping, sex. But if people who read this can get past that, they introduce the concept of neuroadaptation, which is changes in neural circuitry that help perpetuate a behavior that has produced positive rewards. They suggest that the more some people do something that is pleasurable, the more they will want to do it even if it has growing negative consequences. Common negative consequences among Cders are increased unhappiness in marriages, a lessening of focus on jobs, a lessening of interest in other activities and loss of friends, to name a few. Of course, not everyone is on the same scale with the same degree of consequences and many CDers do adapt successfully to the CDing. My SO is one.

Back to the article, they've looked at the brain's reward circuitry and have found that blood flow in dopamine-rich areas indicate that the same neural circuitry is involved in the highs and lows of winning money, abusing drugs, or anticipating a gastronomical treat. Other research is showing there are many other types of rewards, including exercise, chocolate, music, and beauty (I'm wondering if for some CDers it might be feminine beauty) that affect the same reward circuits. Some of you mentioned sex, and it is important to consider that other things than sex bring pleasure to the brain.

I know that a popular thought here is that (some? many? most?) who dress must be at least partly female or feminine and it's all a part of a person's core identity that was established genetically or in utero. I know that it can be downright insulting to suggest a possibility that CDers have rewired themselves because they've engaged in behaviors that make them feel good, since words like "fetish", "addiction" and "compulsion" have had and do still have negative implications.

But I question whether biologically, CDers are fundamentally different from non-CDers, especially the CDers who are hetero. True, there are intersex people and transsexuals and I'm sure other ways to vary biologically. I would like to see more research in the area of neuroadaptation as it concerns individuals who engage in cross-gender expression.

My own position? I just don't know. Even neuroadaptivity must have a scale and may be combined with other factors. Frankly, I don't know if we'll find out in our lifetimes. Money is not flowing for research in this area since it involves a small percentage of the population, most of which is closeted.

PaulaQ

12-08-2014, 02:43 AM

Here is an article to consider if only for background: Behavioral Addictions: Do They Exist (http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~knutson/bad/holden01.pdf)?

My goodness - that article is 13 years old. It references the DSM: IV. There have been improvements to the understanding of gender identity as an "addition or compulsive behavior" since then. (Hint - it isn't a compulsive behavior, fetish, or disorder anymore.)

I know that a popular thought here is that (some? many? most?) who dress must be at least partly female or feminine and it's all a part of a person's core identity that was established genetically or in utero. I know that it can be downright insulting to suggest a possibility that CDers have rewired themselves because they've engaged in behaviors that make them feel good, since words like "fetish", "addiction" and "compulsion" have had and do still have negative implications.

Yes, it is downright insulting you are correct about that. Those are pretty much fighting words, to some of us.

But I question whether biologically, CDers are fundamentally different from non-CDers, especially the CDers who are hetero. True, there are intersex people and transsexuals and I'm sure other ways to vary biologically. I would like to see more research in the area of neuroadaptation as it concerns individuals who engage in cross-gender expression.

What does sexual orientation have to do with this?

In essence, what you've stated is Ray Blanchard's theory of autogynephilia. This idea is not well regarded scientifically, for a number of reasons. It ignores the existence of FtM transsexuals, and it's description of the origins of androphilic (attracted to men) transsexuals - that they are gay men who can't face being gay, and therefore revert to becoming women rather than facing their own sexual orientation - is pretty obviously idiotic in this day and age. Example: Given a choice, I would much rather have been a gay man than a trans woman. I would be a lot less likely to need expensive, and largely uninsured medical treatment, for one thing. There are an enormous number of out gay men now. The social stigma associated with being gay is, in general, lower in Western society than is the stigma of being trans. (There are societies where the opposite is true, but they are exceptions.) I know lots of gay men. They are great. Their lives aren't perfect by any means, and they face real prejudice and hardship still, but my general impression is that it's a whole bunch easier to be gay than to be trans.

As for the common heterosexual MtF CD - I know it is an extremely appealing idea for some of the spouses, partners, and significant others of these individuals to hope that CDing is simply a behavioral issue, and thus presumably susceptible, at least to some degree, to behavioral techniques to prevent them from going "all out transsexual." So if you are accepting, and can find a balance where your SO can do some CDing without shame or repercussion, and still have your own needs in the relationship met, this will keep the relationship alive, and prevent them from transitioning.

Good luck with that. You'll need it.

My own experience was that my gender identity was, after a time, overwhelming and impossible to deny. I thought I understood the concept of being "powerless" over my addiction to alcohol. (I've been sober for 25 years now.) Dealing with my gender identity made me understand that it made my battle with alcohol seem small, trivial, and relatively easy to handle. Alcoholism wasn't any of those things for me in reality, and it nearly ended my life 25 years ago. Only by comparison to something as overwhelming as the gender dysphoria I suffered from, did it seem small.

We are powerless over our gender identity. In my case, I reached a breaking point - "transition, or die." Many of us do, some do not, but need to transition anyway. Regardless, I believe this is beyond your control as an SO, beyond the CDers control, beyond the control of psychology, psychiatry, or modern medicine. We are powerless over this.

If this is your SO's identity, once their GD reaches a critical mass, you won't stop this without destroying them, and prior to reaching that point, there can be a very long period where they are a genuinely miserable person. It was bad enough for me that if given a choice between death, or living as a man again, I'd choose death. Without hesitation, doubt, or fear. It's not that I seek death - far from it. I just know what life as a man was like, and if forced to do it again, death would be a mercy.

LilSissyStevie

12-08-2014, 03:16 AM

It seems to me that the link between so-called identity or social CDs and sexually driven CDs is emasculation. It doesn't surprise me in the least that it would start out as sexual emasculation and then spread to other areas. But it could start the other way or just be one or the other. There is no doubt in my mind that this is what drives me and after over 7+ years on this forum, I don't think I'm alone. Casting off, even if only temporary, the facade of masculinity is a high and it is highly addictive. But, then I have an addictive personality (that's a trait that CAN be genetic, BTW.) I don't think for a minute that immersing myself in the semiotics of femininity makes me a woman. It doesn't even make women women. It makes me an emotional cripple and CD type behavior is my crutch. I can live with that since the imprint is very powerful and I lack the motivation to overcome it -- if that's even possible.

Tinkerbell-GG

12-08-2014, 05:12 AM

Stevie and Reine, your posts make the most sense.

As for this reluctance here to believe in fetish dressing, I wonder what we are to make of the other fetishes out there, like the Adult Babies and the Furries etc. The path of an AB is strikingly similiar to a crossdressers - first inexplicably being drawn to wearing a diaper somewhere between age 5 and 14. It starts off as occasional, then sexual, then as time passes it just feels like a normal identity and and soon they're wearing full baby gear and coming out to family. Are we meant to believe these men are literally babies inside? If not, why not? What about Furries or Amputee fetishists? If you can be turned on by an amputated leg and live your life fixated on this one thing, then surely women's clothing is almost ordinary!

I also don't think SOs are in such denial that we make stuff up to cope. I think, after reading this forum as long as I have, that for some here the personal embarrassment and stigma of crossdressing has created many a wishful theory to eliminate the poor reputation it generally carries - the one where the general public assume crossdressers live out some perverted Rocky Horror Show every day. It's understandable to want to change this association, but completely denying the other possible elements to dressing - the sexual or the addictive/compulsive or the emotional need - all of which COULD have been caused by brain wiring, is less about ours or anyone else's perception and more about the crossdresser's perception of himself. Ultimately, we can walk away from all this, but it's the members here who must walk this path for life and choosing the wrong one because it sounds better will not result in happiness. It just won't. The inner truth will always win.

Anyway Mia, if this is an emotional experience for you, then that's all that matters. Enjoy that. But don't feel this means you're on some path to transitioning or whatever. You can also be a guy who happens to like women's things and really, it's a little insulting that so many here think you MUST be a woman inside to want to emulate one of us - for surely no CIS man in his right mind would ever find such a thing enjoyable or even acceptable so all crossdressers must surely be female.

Its almost like the rigid roles we've assigned men are so strict, they've even permeated into personal identity and being a less than masculine man who happens to likes women's things gets you kicked permanently into the girl section. Girls can look and behave masculine and still identify as female, but if a boy dares to be feminine he couldn't possibly identify as male.

How did we reach this point of insanity?!?

Marcelle

12-08-2014, 05:29 AM

Tink,

I have to admit I am a bit "disconcerted" that you are lumping CDing in with other fetishes as this only helps to permeate the belief that what we do is somehow a fetish with no other route cause then one day I decided to put on a dress and proclaim loudly "I'm a Lady". Seriously? Not the case for me. For others perhaps but trying to lump us all into one category is as useless as trying to lump all GGs into one definition of femininity and we know that is not possible.

As for the "emasculation" hypothesis . . .again not likely. I do not define myself as masculine or feminine (those are societal constraints). I define myself as a person . . . plain and simple. If you want to tack a masculine construct to me . . . well should someone decide that Isha needs a smack down when she is out and about . . . let's just say the individual will get the stereotypical masculine response . . . just saying. Do I feel like a woman inside when I am dressed? Heck no! But again what does that even mean? I feel like me and this part of me prefers to dress in clothing which society has directed belongs to one sex over the other. So just because I dress in women's clothing does not mean I think I am woman. When I wear it, it is not women's clothing, it is my clothing plain and simple.

Hugs

Isha

Tinkerbell-GG

12-08-2014, 05:36 AM

Actually Isha, I'm not lumping. I'm merely sticking up for the fetish dressers who are told time and again that they don't exist! It's like there's a collective mental block here that there are some men who dress for sexual identity and satisfaction. Some of these fetishists even post here every now and again asking if they belong and I'm not surprised! I accept there are people who dress for gender. But there are some here (not you, as I know you see all sides) who think ALL crossdressers are the same and suffer with gender issues. Hence my point about the other fetishes - if they exist, then so too can fetish crossdressers. It's common sense. :)

Kate Simmons

12-08-2014, 05:44 AM

There are no"hard and fast" rules for CDing and it can change over time. For years I actually needed it to continue in my role as a man, husband and father and derived sexual relief. Years later the drive changed to being in touch with my feelings and taking ownership of them. The overall drive is different for different people and always will be. I prefer to look at the individual person myself.:)

PaulaQ

12-08-2014, 05:44 AM

Ultimately, we can walk away from all this, but it's the members here who must walk this path for life and choosing the wrong one because it sounds better will not result in happiness. It just won't. The inner truth will always win.

If only more of you were willing to face the inner truth, or not so constrict another that they choose the wrong path. Most of you don't even remotely come close to this though.

And thanks for comparing us trans women to amputee fetishists. Because no, that isn't offensive at all... Or do you view us still as completely separate from MtF CDs, even though no one can clearly differentiate who will or won't transition until AFTER they've started to transition?

BTW, its hard for transmen to be viewed as men by some in society. It'd be nice to write this off purely to the way society views men and women, but mostly the issue is that people are generally simply ignorant, cruel, and intolerant about these matters.

But what do I know? Clearly I'm worse than an amputee fetishist.

(Biographical note: I'm handicapped. I spent years of my early life in a children's hospital, with other kids who were less fortunate than I was. My best friend had no arms or legs. I really grow tired, and find extremely personally offensive, of people bringing up rather extreme fetishes in relation to trans*.)

But let's say you, and Reine, and Ray Blanchard are right. What do you gain by this explanation other than a way to shame us? You sure as heck don't gain a method of telling whether or not your disgusting pervert of a husband is, in fact, a poor mistreated little transwoman...

So I think really all you are accomplishing is promotion of transphobic ideas.

Tinkerbell-GG

12-08-2014, 05:55 AM

Paula, I was talking about FETISH dressers, not transwomen! Not even ordinary MTF crossdressers...just the fetish dressers. Read my post again!

Marcelle

12-08-2014, 06:11 AM

Actually Isha, I'm not lumping. I'm merely sticking up for the fetish dressers who are told time and again that they don't exist! . . . if they exist, then so too can fetish crossdressers. It's common sense. :)

Hi Tink,

My bad and I apologize. That's what you get when reading a post early in the morning with one cup of coffee only. After a more careful reread I get your point. You are correct in that I believe we are all over the spectrum and fetish dressing is definitely in there and as you stated they have the right to not be lumped into a global collective (kind of a Borg TG . . . sorry nerdy Trekki here) if they choose not to. I truly believe nurture/nature or points in between, we all end up where we are for different reasons so there is no one size fits all.

Hugs

Isha

Katey888

12-08-2014, 06:28 AM

Let's try to be ladylike AND stick to the OP please, members... :D

I think Mia's assertion was correct in the constrained way it was deliberately expressed... Clearly there ARE CDers who fit the definition of fetish just as there are those who don't AT ALL.

Then there are those in between who might have been ONCE - but no longer do so (lots of these, I believe...) and some who probably slip back to it... maybe...

And I'm sure there are many more who blend emotional and physiological needs as the feeling takes them.

Mia - it really doesn't matter about others - it's really how we feel about it as individuals, particularly when our individual behaviour has no overt impact on anyone else... I think it's more important when an SO is involved to be aware of the motivations, but at the end of it all, emotions and physiology are inextricably linked, even if it isn't sexual...

It is what it is on an individual basis - we have to accept that for all of us here, it can mean subtly, or radically different things... :)

Katey x

Tinkerbell-GG

12-08-2014, 06:37 AM

Thanks Isha. My H is the sexual/fetish type so it's probably more of a sore spot than need be :) And I agree - it ultimately doesn't matter why or how, but what you do with it when you get there. Follow your inner truth, whatever that may be, and the questions will disappear.

Isha and Kate Simmons, you are prime examples of people who have done exactly this, and your smiles say it all x

Edit: Okay Katey :)

talonX

12-08-2014, 09:36 AM

Mia, I wanted to bounce back to your original post. I feel like for a lot of CDs/Transpeople/People that there are two kind of conflicting needs - the need to understand where our desires come from, and the need to integrate it into our lives.

I used to spend a fair amount of time reading up on "what makes someone crossdress", trying to find out where this came from because I can remember when the desire had to (or I felt it had to) stay in the closet, and at times it hit me so hard I thought I was going to have an aneurism. I even looked up "how to cure crossdressing" almost of out of desperation (spoiler: you can't). Eventually, I stopped worrying about it so much, and that corresponded with my allowing myself to embrace that side of myself - actually, early on it wasn't "embracing" as much it was just "caving in" - and going out and getting myself something of a new wardrobe. I still wonder what makes me tick and all, but now it's more self-discovery and actually kind of fun. Some of the theories are spectacularly entertaining, too.

As far as the emotional side of it, or fetish vs...uhm non-fetish, I stopped trying to categorize these things. Admittedly, this may not be for everyone, but I look at it this way. I like pizza. A lot. I don't worry about why I like pizza, or what happened in my childhood that made me like pizza, I just enjoy it and it doesn't hurt anyone. I also like garterbelts and stockings. On me and on GGs. On me I love the way they look and feel, and it's more empowering than anything (I think that's tied in to my love of comics, but that's a topic for another post). On GGs it's definately a sexual turn on.I could go on and on, but I think my point is that everyone's inner life is complicated, and not everything has to be condensed into a one-word category. Whether or not stockings are a fetish for me...I don't feel like I need to break it down that way.

Emotionally, I find this way of thinking soothing. I am also a big bucket of other issues that I need to deal with, but few of them, if any, have to do with my crossdressing.

NicoleScott

12-08-2014, 09:47 AM

talonX, second paragraph above, SAME HERE! I still want to know but no longer need to know, It's just curiosity now.
As a teen, contemplating why I crossdress, reading all I could find on it, getting no answers, my eyes become fixed on a picture of a pretty woman in a short skirt, great legs, hair and makeup, killer high heels, feeling blood move from my brain to another organ.....oh yes, THAT'S why I crossdress.

Mia Brankovic

12-08-2014, 09:52 AM

TalonX...thank you very much for that most wonderful post...maybe, for once in my life...I'll allow the current to take me where it will (watching out for rapids, obviously ;). The personal inner answers will come in time (patience)...We sound very much similar...I shall take your advise...

thank you all...I'm satisfied with the outcome of this thread.

Nadine Spirit

12-08-2014, 10:55 AM

I know for many, dressing is a sexual fetish.

For me, it is not. It was confusing for awhile in my life as I have always been super sexual and thus everything got me excited, including a knot hole in a fence! Having gone back and seen the reality of my cross gender behaviors beginning within my life from a super young age, I have to assume this is something I was born with.

For a bit, connecting it with sex somehow made it okay. It allowed me to express it out loud, by being able to say to my SO, now my wife, "oh it is just a sexual thing and doesn't mean anything about my internal feelings about being a man or a woman, it just gets me off." But the more I dressed, the more I didn't want it having anything to do with sex as it just felt wrong.

Nowadays, it really does not matter to me what other explanations others offer up for their dressing. I know I was born this way. It is not a learned behavior. It does not have the sexual fetish connection that so many others do. It is a part of who I am, and always has been.

Mia Brankovic

12-08-2014, 11:00 AM

Nadine, thank you for sharing...I too was super sexual...I gave new meaning to the term "Tree-hugger" LMAO (I slay Me!) hahaha

Maybe that's where it started, and hence my sexually oriented thread? hmm, Thank you, once again.

Nadine, that knot hole reference was just perfect ;)

Amy Fakley

12-08-2014, 11:22 AM

Well I mean if you type "crossdressing" into google, you'll find out with a quickness just exactly why so many of us want to establish distance from the fetish scene.

Without a doubt there a lots of people in the world for who transvestic fetishism is a big big thing. It'd be hard to deny such people exist, to the vanilla world they are pretty much the faceplate. You tell someone that you have trans issues and 90% of the time they think you mean you're way into some variation of porn and wanting to dance in assless chaps and pink pasties atop a float in the love parade.

Not that there's anything wrong with that I guess, but it's never been anything even remotely to do with me. For me it has not ever been about that. For me, it has been about identity, and maybe it is for the fetishists too, I don't know ... but it certainly seems like a different wave they're on, at least from my perspective.

For whatever reason, putting on women's clothes, makeup, and prosthetic breasts, lights up a part of my brain like fireworks on the 4th of July ... it makes me feel like all the puzzle pics fit together, and I feel the peace and wholeness I've been seeking my entire life ... and yeah sometimes I wonder if maybe I'd made different decisions earlier in my life, if it'd not just been better if I'd taken steps to make this my default state of being. Maybe I'd have been a happier person, I don't even know. That sure doesn't mean I think I'm a woman, or that I have a woman's brain. Certainly there are parallels but without a doubt, they are different things.

maybe it's a crutch, like stevie said. I suppose in some ways it definitely is, but you know what ... crutches are a freakin' genius invention ... tools that allow you to overcome ...

And I agree with Paula, comparisons with "adult babies", "furries", and amputee fetishists really go too far. The difference is that half of the damn world walks around essentially being the kind of person that at I want to be when I'm dressed. I defy you to give me an example of a real life warewolf, of an honest to god functioning "adult baby" (not living in a nursing home with profound mental issues). Just one will do.

Stephanie47

12-08-2014, 12:36 PM

I'm going to stick to whether or not there is an emotional side to my desire to wear women's clothing. Every person goes through periods of development. When I started dabbling in my mother's lingerie, there was a degree of sexuality to it. Guys had a tendency to masturbate as teens because, well, it is normal behavior. If I were to masturbate while wearing lingerie as an early teen I would not consider myself to be a fetish dresser. I really did not establish any sexual routine that you accompany arousal. If as an adult I found I had a calling to wear a garter belt and hosiery every time when I enjoyed sexual activity, I'd say I was a fetish dresser. I think in order to be characterized as a fetish dresser, it is necessary to do something out of the norms established by society. If you wife or girl friend thinks it may be fun to slip a nightie on you and jump your bones one night, that does not make you a fetish dresser. Repetitive behavior is necessary,

So, where does my cross dressing fit in? I do not derive sexual gratification from being en femme. It comes down to establishing by definition what a fetish dresser may be. As long as you or anyone else clearly states what's YOUR definition there will be no confusion. My definition may be different than your definition. As long as there is full disclosure of the "ground rules" there is no confusion.

Me? Cross dressing brought me peace and tranquility from the male rat race. I had a stressful job for over thirty years. It was always adversarial. I guess I could have used alcohol or drugs or chased women for relief. That was not in my past, so it did not enter the thought processes in my mind. Donning women's attire seemed to bring that escape from day to day reality. I fully know I am not a genetic male. That does not bother me. So, today after I am done banging away on this keyboard I will be baking a cherry cake. I am fully en femme. As a retire I should be stress free and have no need to wear my pretty dresses. But, this has been going on for so long I am no longer "driven" to wear a dress. It has become as natural as wearing my male jeans and tee shirts.

Kandi Robbins

12-08-2014, 04:23 PM

For me it was sexual until the moment I accepted myself as a crossdresser. It then became something else, not sure what yet, but something else.

PaulaQ

12-08-2014, 04:59 PM

I don't believe that having a sexual component to cross dressing defines it as being "fetish." That certainly wasn't my experience - not even close. There was always a sexual component to my CDing until I came out to myself as a transgender woman. There were, when I was younger, periods when that wasn't what it was all about. But I tended to focus on the sexual side of it for a couple of reasons:
1. My opportunities to CD, particular after I got caught doing it as a kid, became few, far between, and short. I simply didn't feel I could risk anything that took much time. I lived in fear, and stole moments when I could.
2. I felt enormous guilt over all of this, the sexual parts of it, the confusion over my gender, and the confusion over my own sexual orientation. I was certain there was something terribly wrong with me.

My main problem with the "fetish dresser" / "cross dresser" / "transsexual" labels is that some of us seem to get lulled into this sense of security that just because they tack a label on someone, it means they can tell something about the future about that person. You simply cannot do that.

If you think that someone who gets labeled as a "fetish dresser" never transitions, then you need to think again. I did, and I know other women who have.

Putting labels we don't understand on a condition we don't understand in the hopes that this magically prevents something awful from happening is, at best, wishful thinking.

BTW, it was a very strong emotional need to cross dress. The mental anguish I felt over pretending to be a man was the worst pain I've ever experienced. I didn't really understand that this was even what I was feeling, or the source of it, until the end. I just knew that I hated my face, my body (especially my body hair). I was not very comfortable with my genitals. I hated myself, every minute aspect of my being. Cross dressing alleviated those feelings for a time. I didn't understand that this was even what was going on until early in 2013. It can be VERY difficult to understand what you are feeling.

Sarah Doepner

12-08-2014, 07:40 PM

First Reine hit it out of my ballpark with her comment. I've considered this to the case for a long time, but didn't have the link to the research.

. . . Back to the article, they've looked at the brain's reward circuitry and have found that blood flow in dopamine-rich areas indicate that the same neural circuitry is involved in the highs and lows of winning money, abusing drugs, or anticipating a gastronomical treat. Other research is showing there are many other types of rewards, including exercise, chocolate, music, and beauty (I'm wondering if for some CDers it might be feminine beauty) that affect the same reward circuits. Some of you mentioned sex, and it is important to consider that other things than sex bring pleasure to the brain.

I would like to see more research in the area of neuroadaptation as it concerns individuals who engage in cross-gender expression.

My own position? I just don't know. Even neuroadaptivity must have a scale and may be combined with other factors.

Regardless of the type of pleasure, physical or emotional, if we do this long enough and get positive results we will continue to pursue it. Eventually we may just find just wearing the clothing and doing the makeup is sufficient to get where we need to be. This seems to follow the common experience of long time crossdressers who are unable to dress for extended periods and get pretty darn cranky with everyone around them. It happened to me. So is there an emotional need to dress? It seems there could be once we manage to refine that experience and substitute just dressing for anything beyond that activity. And while neuroadaptivity may be combined with other factors, there can be many things that can provide that positive reinforcement that brings us back to dressing once again. Consider more than the magic of seeing the transformation in the mirror or the luxurious feeling of some of the materials, but once we get social rewards from others we are going to be much more likely to return to the behavior. Support groups, web forums, friends and approving spouses will all push some emotional buttons that further encourage further exploration. And yes, sexual satisfaction would be a very strong motivator as well.

Then Kandi sums up that refined experience with a point of reference in the growth of an individual.

For me it was sexual until the moment I accepted myself as a crossdresser. It then became something else, not sure what yet, but something else.

It may not be that point for everyone, but looking back, it was close to that for me as well. I can't tell you what IT is now either. However, I too saw a change in how I responded to the experience once I accepted myself as a crossdresser. My view of the experience changed and acquired more depth and meaning. My world became more complex, and in a way it represents the possibilities that exist that didn't before that moment. So my answer is yes, there is an emotional need to crossdress as I continue to work on creating my vision of who I am and what goals I have as an individual.

ReineD

12-08-2014, 11:09 PM

I understand why the word "fetish" gets people up in arms. It was viewed (and might still be in some circles) as some sort of deviant behavior.

But, now sex therapists are recognizing that alternative sexual interest is normal and even healthy. So if a CDer dresses for sexual reasons and has a fulfilling life, what's wrong with that?

In any event, I was not suggesting earlier that all CDers obtain sexual pleasure from the CDing. Some do and some don't. To suggest otherwise is utopian. And it was sexual for many if not most CDers during their younger years (we've had long threads about this) although this does change with age for many. But, pleasurable it is for many people even though it does not culminate in orgasm, at least according to many reports here.

Tink, you mentioned AB earlier. Some ABs would be highly insulted if you told them they did this for sexual reasons. The camp is divided in that community, between those for whom it is sexual, and those who see it as a part of their core identity. I saw a good video by an articulate spokesperson for the community and if I find it again, I'll send it to you.

Tinkerbell-GG

12-09-2014, 01:42 AM

Thanks Reine, I'd love to see it. And I'm not surprised there is as much devision in the AB world as this one. You're right that the word 'fetish' is often misheard as 'deviant' or 'unnatural'. But there have been many an article out lately that suggest alternative sexual practices are no more unnatural than being heterosexual or homosexual and likely even have a place in evolution.

In the end, it's all such a personal journey. Only the person walking it really knows who they are.

Sarah Doepner

12-09-2014, 11:12 AM

. . . In the end, it's all such a personal journey. Only the person walking it really knows who they are.

Such a good thought, it's unfortunate that there are so many who feel the need to label, classify and lump others together. Sometimes it's an effort to understand and at other times it's to judge. That's why this forum has kept my attention for so long, it's made up of those who want to understand and be understood.

Mia Brankovic

12-10-2014, 05:15 AM

Oops!...you folks are still chattin' away! (I had to go and powder my nose...). So, I'm just seeing if the thread is on track...(something struck me the last time, when Katey had to redirect).

You see...the original thought eliminated the whole fetish element and yet, that issue continues to surface! How very interesting! We were to discuss the Emotional effect of CDing (which is being done...openly and 'Freudianly'). Thank you all for being open & honest...communication, in this fashion, is priceless!

Amy...this is a wonderful post concerning how society's view of CDing relates to a sexual 'obsession' (fetish, porn...some hairy a$$ed guys prancing around in panties claiming to be 'a princess'...you know, me on a Saturday night. LMAO ;)). Well my dear...this is not on topic, or is it? (more in a moment). In response to your (and Stephanie's post, somewhat): the only way to change the public's image is thru self-promotion, education & advocacy.
Now, unto the good 'stuff'...this thread continue to slide into the fetish (or Society Sexual view of Cders)...I strongly believe that 'That One Issue' may be at the heart of many of the negative emotional repercussion of this venture. Negative emotions cause stress (the wrong type), this type of stress is never good.

Now, most of you'z used terms like: Peace, serenity, tranquility, happy, etc...when describing your inner emotions; however, the only negative external stressor was: Public Opinion...and you all are doing yourselves emotional damage...so what we all gonna do 'bout it?

Be the change.

talonX

12-10-2014, 11:55 AM

Mia, a couple of (hopefully not trite) quotes

"..all revolutions are ultimately revolutions of one." (any real change is on a personal level)
from the comic Phonogram, a truely awesome comic about the magic of music, personal change, and identity. Mostly about music, though.

"If you want to be somebody else,
If you're tired of fighting battles with yourself
If you want to be somebody else
Change your mind..."
Sister Hazel, from the song "Change your mind"

One thought that I had after reading a lot of the other posts, and how everyone felt about dressing and how those feelings and attitudes evolved as they, not necessarily embraced it, but started to explore it.

If someone has a drinking problem and wants to stop, the first step is always "stop drinking". If someone was struggling with the desires to crossdress or explore other aspects of their gender identity, the first step should be "start dressing". It isn't enough to be on that path, you have to start walking down it.