Maybe I should take up golf again

[Sometimes Steffi]

What do our SOs hate about crossdressing

1. It takes time away from them
2. It costs money that could be used for other things
3. Trust and secrecy issues

But, there are a number of socially acceptable pursuits that have similar characteristics, for example golf.

I am a reformed golfer. I used to be in a company sponsored golf league that played after work one night a week.

So let’s talk about golf. We've all probably heard the term “golf widow”, which is a wife who’s left alone a lot because her husband spends so much time on the golf course. A committed golfer may watch golfing on TV when it is off season, and may spend his weekends on the golf course when it is in season. He (and he’s usually a he) may spend a lot of money on golfing equipment, may read golf magazines that review golfing techniques and golfing equipment. In addition to the time spent on the golf course, he may spend time with his golfing buddies at the 19th hole. He may take his golf equipment on business trips so he can get in a round or two of golf while he’s out of town. He may schedule some golf vacations with his golf buddies, leaving his wife at home. He may even take his golf clubs along on family vacations to sneak in a few rounds.

If you replace the word “golfing” with “CDing”, and golf equipment with clothes, makeup, wigs, forms, doesn't this sound a lot like being a CDer?

But no woman would be afraid to tell her mom, her dad, his sister, her brother or her friends that her husband was golfing. But they would be concerned about telling them that her husband was CDing.

So, then, what is it about golfing that allows it to be spoken about in polite company, while CDing remains a state secret? In my opinion, it’s the social acceptability.

If you’re still with me, then the real question is, ‘What’s so wrong about CDing?”

1. Money spent
2. Time spent away from SO
3. Time spent thinking about doing it
4. Time spent shopping for things with which to do it
5. Time for lessons on how to do it better
6. Keeping the secret

Just like golf, even the secret part. Do you think a golfer is going to tell his wife how much he spent for his fancy new putter?

[sabrinaedwards]

While I agree with what you have written, the big difference is that golf is socially acceptable where CDing is not! I love to golf and my wife is quick to say that where she will not say that I am a cross dresser.
Love, Sabrina

[docrobbysherry]

Combine the 2, Steffi. I'm taking up golf again with my balky back just so I can play in the ladies tourney at the DLV in Vegas next year!

[Beverley Sims]

Three things easy to combine, Golf, Skiing and Dressing.

[Kathleen Anne]

John De Bella a DJ in philly used to tell a sports caster he did a show with (Howard Eskin) this line about golf thats sums up my feelings about the sport. Paraphrased because it was a long time ago ,my memory of it was this.


" I'm married ; I dont need annother form of aggravation "

Kathleen

[Katey888]

Nothing wrong with golf Steffi, but I think you are missing some key issues that are high in the popular culture view of crossdressing and so need to add a few aspects that 'lame old golf', or dominoes at the village pub, or just watching sport on TV at the weekend - don't have:

4. A substantial sexual element (sometimes just fantasy but often related to bi- or gay orientation)
5. Crossdressing as a prelude to transitioning (largely due to a small number of high-profile transsexuals who started with crossdressing as a way of expressing their inner self... but what else would they do?)
6. An apparent flagrant desire to look, dress and behave as the opposite gender - right down to exacting details like makeup, nails, lingerie, fake breasts, mannerisms, voice - when such desires are highly stigmatised by society and the gender binary, and we could seemingly care less about the possibility of ridicule, abuse and possibly even physical (and sexual) violence to pursue our needs to present this way
7. A belief (by many of us) that "we were born this way" - in which case why wouldn't there be a possibility that our children would carry this crazy desire to our descendants..?

Please note my disclaimer that this would be a populist view of CDers, propogated by the media, books, movies, fetish websites, etc. - it is not necessarily true, but it doesn't need to be if it is what people accept as a perception of crossdressing.

Having thought this through - I think I would be categorising many of the obstacles SOs would have as fears rather than hates. Fear is a much more likely outcome of ignorance and misunderstanding, even if those additional points above don't apply to everyone on this forum (I think we here are an exception). To me it's a little like the populist connection between being gay and being promiscuous, or being a white Southerner and being racist... We may not match the stereotype, but it doesn't stop our SOs fearing that we may become more like them... :thinking:

Katey x

[Jenny Gurl]

It's mostly about self image. Crossdressing is not popular and it's not trendy among the majority of society. Since it is looked down upon by most of society, a spouse would feel as though they would be looked down upon by society by association, and we can't blame them for this very real fact. It is wrong that crossdressing is misunderstood by society out of pure ignorance, but until it changes you can't blame a SO for not wanting to be known as "the Crossdressers wife" as opposed to "the Doctors wife" or the "Senators wife". Other things can also be factors, but I believe this is the largest contributing factor. If Crossdressing were trendy, and completely accepted then a SO would likely help you pick out the best looking dress, shoes, and earrings so you looking good would reflect on her too.

[Alice B]

The best of both worlds is to play golf dressed. Go to DLV. Every year they have a golf event and it is a total hoot and exciting as hell. Can't wait for this coming years event.

[Alice Torn]

So many people will think the worst, if told you CD, such as sexual fetishes, gay, pervert, deviant, yada yada. Sad, but still true, even today. Branding.

[Jaylyn]

This can be appilied to just about all of our crazy things we do. I hunt and fish passionately my wife has no clue as to the amount of hunting equipment or fishing equipment not counting a $58,000. bass boat. She does know what I spend though on CD simply because she approves. I just wish it was totally accepted then I could combine all three into a very cool past time.

[Ilsa]

Sport and socially acceptable actions. My question to anyone out there who can remember, because I certainly can't, the name of the Doctor who transitioned and then went on to play on the women's professional tennis tour; creating quite a stir. Just curious?

[Alice Torn]

Ilsa, Dr. Richard Raskind, had SRS, became tennis star Rene Richards.

[Kate Simmons]

Go ahead and take up golf again but I guarantee it won't be as satisfying as CDing. A little bird told me that. ;):battingeyelashes::)

[Brynna M]

I think what you've hit on is that there are a lot of red herring excuses like cost time away etc. My S.O. and I don't talk about CDing so I'm shooting from the hip here.....

No caring S.O. wants to come out and say I don't like your crossdressing because "I think it's weird" or "no matter what you say I'm afraid you want to transition" Most reasonable adults can make allowances for time and money so the real reasons have to be less strictly logical. I think Katey's list has a lot of truth in it.

[ReineD]

6. An apparent flagrant desire to look, dress and behave as the opposite gender - right down to exacting details like makeup, nails, lingerie, fake breasts, mannerisms, voice - when such desires are highly stigmatised by society and the gender binary, and we could seemingly care less about the possibility of ridicule, abuse and possibly even physical (and sexual) violence to pursue our needs to present this way

… not to mention attempting to strengthen a gender divide by portraying women in a way that many of us feel is sexist, in an age when we are finally making great strides to distance ourselves from the 1950s attitudes that women should be sexy and submissive.


<edit>
I'm not referring to anyone in particular, just photos I've seen here and there with the focus on boobs, cleavage, legs, butts, short skirts, etc.

[Ilsa]

Ilsa, Dr. Richard Raskind, had SRS, became tennis star Rene Richards. Thanks Alice. I recall Rene Richards, but never knew that her former name was Raskind.

[Sometimes Steffi]

She wrote a book after she transitioned:

Second Serve

http://www.amazon.com/Second-Serve-Renee-Richards/dp/0812828976/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418616190&sr=1-1&keywords=second+serve&pebp=1418616189686

And it later was turned into a movie

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091913/

[docrobbysherry]

… not to mention attempting to strengthen a gender divide by portraying women in a way that many of us feel is sexist, in an age when we are finally making great strides to distance ourselves from the 1950s attitudes that women should be sexy and submissive.


<edit>
I'm not referring to anyone in particular, just photos I've seen here and there with the focus on boobs, cleavage, legs, butts, short skirts, etc.
Just to be clear, Reine, did u mean to say that since I choose to present as a hot, sexy, young female that paints me as sexist? (A fact of which I'm not proud. But, I expect this zebra's too old to change his stripes). Or, u feel sexist looking at our photos?

Altho, how I, or any other dressers that u don't know personally, could have some bearing on how u feel, is beyond me!

[Leslie Langford]

You've stated and developed your case with impeccable Cartesian logic, Steffi, and in the way that a typical male would approach it. Cogito ergo sum. Trouble is, when dealing with the opposite sex, you overlooked one key element: the emotional component.

While they may view them as mindless and irritating obsessions, women as individuals don't feel threatened by golf or any other typical "male" hobby or sports as they don't call their inherent femininity, sexuality, attractiveness to the opposite sex or overall self-image into question. Crossdressing does.

Add to that the green-eyed monster - jealousy - and you have the makings of a toxic mix that doesn't bode well for the typical CDer in a heterosexual relationship. It takes an exceptional woman with a high degree of confidence and sense of self-worth not to be turned off out by her partner's crossdressing and to see it as the harmless - albeit unconventional - pastime the way her partner does.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Steffi, A Crossdressing Golfer, I guess that would be a double whammy:daydreaming:

[ReineD]

Just to be clear, Reine, did u mean to say that since I choose to present as a hot, sexy, young female that paints me as sexist? (A fact of which I'm not proud. But, I expect this zebra's too old to change his stripes). Or, u feel sexist looking at our photos?

Altho, how I, or any other dressers that u don't know personally, could have some bearing on how u feel, is beyond me!

Sherry, I don't personally feel one way or the other, although I do think that (some) CDers are pushing what used to be called women's lib, backwards. :p

Yours is a good question. Sexism defined: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex. I meant the stereotyping of women as a sexual object, portraying them with an emphasis on things like big boobs, long legs, cleavage, in suggestive poses, etc (all the ways that some men like to see women) that I've seen in so many photos here and elsewhere. I like to think that we are so much more than that. :)



Add to that the green-eyed monster - jealousy - and you have the makings of a toxic mix that doesn't bode well for the typical CDer in a heterosexual relationship.

Not to offend, Leslie, but if you took this argument to the GG section, they'd laugh you out of the place. IF (and that's a capital if) a woman says that she is jealous, it is generally because she has a negative body image, that is there whether she is with a CDer or not. Women with positive body images are not jealous of CDers.

[Leslie Langford]

Fair enough, Reine, but when my wife absolutely refuses to let me to buy her clothing for special occasions such as birthdays, Christmas etc. based on the (groundless) fear that I might have bought the same thing in my size for myself - and that would be just to "creepy" for her to contemplate - what would you call that emotion?

We have different styles, and what looks good on me typically wouldn't suit her (and vice versa), so the odds of that happening are remote. But many times while shopping for my female wardrobe, I have seen items that I know would look smashing on my wife, but have had to restrain myself from purchasing them for fear of the backlash. On the other hand, I often get chastised for how much I spend on "Leslie", yet she hates shopping for clothes herself. Can't win for losing...

[Amy Lynn3]

Blue Orchid, that would be a double bogie.:battingeyelashes:

[Melani]

I say CD golfing. Yes those cute skirts and tops plus teeing at the red tees has to improve your handycap. Diffiantly on my bucket list.

[Amy Lynn3]

Reine, I have always had great respect for you, over and above most of the GG's here, but for the life of me I don't understand your comments about how we as crossdressers dress.

Never wanting to take away from Steff's post, but I feel your feelings that cders are pushing the gender divide apart is not so.

[Lorileah]

I think I remember my years as a crossdresser. First, if it was a hobby, you could quit. You may not like it, but push came to shove, most men would give up golf for marital perks. There are analogies I guess but you can do that with a lot of things. Hunting, fishing, model building, watching birds. All take some financial resource and time away. In the last year I have played golf exactly twice. While I miss it, I can live without sneaking out on weekends or making up stories to do it. (Beware...if you golf and you transition...your golfing buddies will drop you like a 2 foot putt. Even if you promise to hit from the blue tees.)

I get the point and it is funny, But is this really a hobby for crossdressers? Something they do to fill in time? You aren't born with the desire to play golf. Even Tiger Woods had to be trained with all his natural ability. Others have pointed out the stigma, the way some T's present (although I used to wear red pants on the course). How many of you have looked at your golfing [artner and thought "I would do him"? Now how many have looked at another CD and said that?

Riene, I agree that many (and yes I said many, not a few, not one not even 45%) of crossdressers are living up to an ideal that is based on sex...but is this skirt too short?

[Tina_gm]

I hadmade a thread a while back somewhat similar to this. And some, especially some GG's were like whoa, hold on, CDing is way different than golf. Well duh, of course it is. Golf is accepted by society and CDing isn't. That is the biggest difference. IF.... Cding was as accepted by society as golf is, your analogy would be spot on.

As for those who talk about how CDers have secret accounts, different names and there is a sexual element, yes, there is the sexual element that golf does not entail. But I have witness lying about what people were doing many times. secret bank accounts or cc cards to cover up expenses. Those things do occur as well. Yes, there are other differences as well, but break down the way you did Steffi, and so much is true, The end results are similar, time expenses and such, but it is the why that makes the same amount of time away and expenses good for golf, not good for CDing.


Hi Steffi, A Crossdressing Golfer, I guess that would be a double whammy:daydreaming:

A double bogey, or a double eagle, depending on ones perspectives lol

[ReineD]

Fair enough, Reine, but when my wife absolutely refuses to let me to buy her clothing for special occasions such as birthdays, Christmas etc. based on the (groundless) fear that I might have bought the same thing in my size for myself - and that would be just to "creepy" for her to contemplate - what would you call that emotion?

I don't know your wife of course, but I don't think it's jealousy. I may be wrong, but a common thing among GGs is they generally (not everyone) want to maintain their role as the female unit in the hetero relationship that is comprised of one female unit plus one male unit (sorry, I was just watching a video on the new Common Core Standards for math). I think that perhaps your wife wants to retain her place as the sole woman in the relationship, which means that she wants to be the person who wears the women's clothes. I remember some things you've written in the past and I know that you and your wife have had issues with the CDing. My guess is that any interest you took in feminine things even if they were meant for her was misread? She may have convinced herself that ultimately your (and every other crossdressers') motives are to want the clothes for yourselves more than you want to see your wives in them. And over time this can be a turn-off for a wife who has difficulty with the CDing.


... but for the life of me I don't understand your comments about how we as crossdressers dress.

Never wanting to take away from Steff's post, but I feel your feelings that cders are pushing the gender divide apart is not so.

In my post #15, I was adding to Katey's point #6 with very general comments about why it is believed that women don't like the CDing. One of these reasons is the way that many CDers portray themselves, in sexual poses with scant clothing. Just do an image search of "crossdresser" on google and you'll see what I mean. Women have been making gains in past decades to move away from the idea that they are sexual objects and this is why a lot of people believe that crossdressers who continue to portray themselves in this manner continue to foster the gender divide.

I do want to add that my SO doesn't dress that way (most of the time ;)), nor do the members of the support group that we attend. Fetish CDers (I believe) tend to keep their fetish wear at home if they go out in the mainstream, so we only really see these photos online. But, there are lots of fetish CDers out there, likely many more than post photos of themselves in regular clothing here. I've been to other CD wives' websites and the biggest complaint is the fetish aspect of the CDing, so we can't say that it doesn't exist.

[litlejohn]

You hit the nail on the head repeatedly: Time
No matter what is done it all boils down to time, in my house. Weather it be time spent or time that could of been spent. I've had jobs making great money but wasn't home enough. I was in the service and decided i wanted to be home with my new baby. I gave notice or my obligation was done and I opted for a job That allowed me to be home.
I am fortunate to have a loving wife who accepts me wholly, however no matter what I'm doing she wants, desires, and deserves my time. Weather it be softball, shooting pool, playing poker,wearing dresses or just sitting around with the guys shooting the shit. She still wants, desires and in my mind deserves my time.
Golf isn't a bad way to spend a day, if the SO isn't with you then that is still Time that could of been with them.

[ReineD]

Riene, I agree that many (and yes I said many, not a few, not one not even 45%) of crossdressers are living up to an ideal that is based on sex...but is this skirt too short?

On you, Lori, never! :)