The Conundrum of Crossdresser Representation in ze Media!

[Mink]

anyone else get frustrated with this?

one that bothers me is Movies!

any time people list CDing movies it is NEVER what i'd consider CDers... it's always TS or one where it is done as a joke or costume (Doubtfire / Tootsie / Some Like It Hot / etc) or over the top Drag stuff like To Wong Foo or queen of the dessert (!) ... rocky horror...

or stories of famous or non-famous people... it's always TS because that is who they are and it's full time... I guess no one wants to be known as a part-timer and get people confused that they are either TS or Gay or a Drag Queen or want to be a woman from now on...?

so in a way yes it helps further the transgender cause but as a crossdresser I don't think it makes people any less confused about us!

and even with famous people it's more allowed if you are just some quirky figure or a musician putting on a show...

obviously Eddie Izzard being one of the most popular choices or that one British artist (?) where they get away with it because of their profession

same with ones that did it for shock (?) such as Dennis Rodman or Marilyn Manson ... even with people like that soccer player married to the spice girl or steven tyler or scott weiland or whomever else it's more for the shock or lark or just some fun little quirk

ed wood... J. Edgar Hoover... Divine!

to say nothing of movies where it's not just a gag but rather a deranged serial killer (psycho / buffalo bill / leatherface... all based off the same guy!)

it drives me up a wall!


I think I've heard some say Well a normal every-day crossdresser wouldn't make much for an interesting character / show / movie!

bullplop!

that could be quite interesting even on its own but that could also just be one part of a rich character who could be many other things...

famous people in their real lives coming out... movies portraying it not just as a joke or a lark... I just don't see it happening

and for that people will mostly remain in the closet or be seen as weird by the mainstream at large...

either as a joke to be mocked or a creepy person to be feared / disgusted by!



also that THING about women not crossdressing when they wear men's clothes or men's fashion-inspired clothings? the idear that they are not trying to emulate men?

it's a good point but it falls apart when a man wears girly clothing but does NOT emulate a female... no fake breasts maybe a beard acting just like you always do!

it'd STILL look / be considered odd ... and probably always will!

[AllieSF]

Well, I just had a long post mysteriously disappear when I must have touched the wrong combination of keys. So, instead of trying to recuperate from my weak memory all that I wrote I will just say that what bothers you does not bother me at all. I hope we get more and more exposure in all types of roles from humorous to serious (excluding ones where we really are depicted to be bad people). The same thing happened for gays in early television and movies and now they are main characters in award winning productions. Our time will come sooner, rather than later.

[Beverley Sims]

Media and cinema representation of CD's is not usually reality.

[Katey888]

Grayson Perry is "that one British artist" (Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayson_Perry - about the same age as me but I think I dress better... :eek:)... We do have other artists, I believe, but none quite like him...

Mink - I think your post is really more about comprehension and education than the media (which is why it should remain here in MtF :)) and touches on the thoughts I had a while back. Populist images of crossdressers are parodies of the stereotypes - they are never 'regular guys' because it's true: where would be the story in that? We lack any authoritative role models because most of us part-timers can live our lives safe in our masculine redoubt, complete with all the benefits, image and positive stereotyping that society gives it.

I think there are parallels with the way the LGB movement developed - they were fighting bigotry of sexuality that was long thought of as an errant choice and remained a criminal act in many jurisdictions until very recently. Crossdressing isn't normally legislated against (at least, not often in the western world) and in truth, what most of us do isn't illegal, just socially not accepted. The LGB movement was fighting decriminalisation and positive laws that would support non-discrimination and same-gender marriage - what laws do we need to change? None that I'm aware of as what we do is not illegal. Just odd.

BTW - I'd have to stress I do support the need for rights and legislation as regards TS folk - but that isn't what we're discussing here - crossdressing is (relatively) easily hidden if you can suppress it... If you can't - personally I think that's just a reflection of being further down the TG-TS spectrum but even so there is some support in law (depending on the jurisdiction).

How were LGB folk portrayed in the media before protection and more widespread acceptance? As stereotypes, of course. Even after acceptance things haven't improved that much, because even with protection and acceptance it's still 'not the norm'... like us - as you say, we'll always be considered ODD.

So the best we can hope for is tolerance - which is there today to some extent and to differing degrees, depending on your locale. Acceptance is a number of conceptual steps further on, I believe - you have to have a very open mind and heart to be truly accepting of something like this. But yes, I get that frustration too... :)

Katey x

[PaulaQ]

If you want to change the way the media portrays you, you need to be visible.

True story - I know lots of gay and lesbian cis people. Pretty much all of them are surprised about the existence of heterosexual crossdressers. Not very many people understand y'all - despite your numbers.

You have to be visible, and you just aren't.

BTW, if it makes you feel any better, the media's portrayal of TS isn't very good either. We generally fall into one of several tropes - either really pretty, omg I never knew she used to be a he, or totally non passable and kind of pathetic. Transmen, mostly just don't exist for the media. (Or are badly portrayed - the episode about a transman on transparent really pissed me off.)

Anyway, those of us who end up as kind of average looking, or visibly trans but attractive don't get much attention. If we conform to cis beauty standards, we're exotic beauties. If we don't, we are objects of ridicule, desired by no one. (Neither of these are true.)

The idea we'd be in relationships where we didn't fool our partner, that an otherwise "normal" person could find one of us attractive, isn't really common at all in the media.

Just sayin' its bad all around. Also saying even if you are visible, don't expect quick change on this.

And yes, the way they treat CDs in media flat out sucks.

[ReluctantDebutant]

Movies and television shows are written by well, writers. And writers are kind of like chefs only adding the right ingredients in the right amount to their characters and stories that would be palatable to their audience.

Could you imagine an action hero coming back from a long hard day of world saving to kick back at home en femme? You and I might be able to swallow that flavor but it would be sour in the mouths of most audiences.

Hollywood, when it touches on the subject, portrays TSs ad drag queens because it is central to the stories. You couldn't write the Christine Jorgensen Story without dealing with the TG element and you are only writing the Christine Jorgensen Story because of the TG element.

Sure you could write a story about an average family man who is a cross-dresser. But it would only be interesting if the cross-dressing is causing strife and conflict. It is again no longer something that is harmless and carefree. Once again cross-dressing is casted in a negative light.

A man wanting to dress like a woman for the sheer joy of it is something people just don't get. Heck I don't get it either and I have done it for Pete sake.

In Doubtfire, Robin Williams wants to see more of his kids.
In Tootsie, Dustin Hoffman is a down an out actor desperate for a job.
Some like it Hot, Curtis and Lemmon have to hide from the mob.

All of these and many more have motivations for being in a dress that folks can understand and even remotely relate to.

We will probably could see normal cross-dressers as secondary characters. like the neighbor or friend of the main character or even the brother like in the Drew Carey show.

[Leslie Langford]

Not to worry, mink - it's not a complete wasteland out there. Clearly, you've never seen the movie "Just Like A Woman", which treats the topic of crossdressing in a very enlightened and sympathetic manner.

That said, I would take issue with your spin on the movie "To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar". While it may be centered around drag queens, it also incorporates a significant human interest element within it that portrays gender-variant people in a very favorable light, and as real people who have something positive to give back to the world.

[Krisi]

Movies, TV, even what used to be reliable news organizations present their product for entertainment and to sell the product. Any relationship to reality is purely accidental.

I posted a couple days ago on standing with my wife in the checkout line at a store and seeing a tabloid with a story about Bruce Jennings "becoming a woman". It's not news, it's sensationalism designed for one purpose, that is to sell copies of the tabloid.

[Stephanie47]

I really don't know what sort of plot line there would be for a cross dresser. I saw Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire and many other main stream flicks with men wearing women's clothing for a reason not representative of me.... or most cross dressers. I guess a movie may be written and created for the small "art house" movie houses. There is one in my small city. I can only envision a plot where a man comes out to his wife, and, the plot concerns the struggle of acceptance as the man/cross dresser goes deeper and deeper into the "pink fog." In a main stream Regal theater it would have a short run. I would imagine males would not view it because of the fear someone would think he was a cross dresser.

I do not envision a movie dealing with the struggles of acceptance. It just will not fill the seats.

[Judith96a]

Katey,
Thanks for your thought-provoking post! The more that I've experienced of CD-ing and the "community" the more convinced I am that compared to the LGB community, and indeed our TS friends, CD-ers are going to struggle most for acceptance.
The parallels (perhaps moved accurately 'contrasts'?) that you draw with the LGB movement are spot on! We (CD-ers) aren't (generally) the victims of any discriminatory legislation. For the most part, what we do isn't perceived as illegal - just odd and therefore not generally socially accepted. What laws do we need passed / changed? Arguably none! What we need is for people (wives especially) to be "not weirded-out" by the concept of a man in women's clothing. Good luck legislating for that!

I wonder what sort of audience figures a movie / TV show, where the central character is a MtF cross dresser "just for the sheer joy of it", would actually get? I'm not holding my breath waiting for it!

[Alicia S]

Actually there is one...

Just Like A Woman -a 1992 movie starring Julie Walters and Adrian Pasdar

How good is it??? It scores 6.4/10 on IMDB from 276 ratings.

Over to you ladies...