Is this true?

[Nikkilovesdresses]

"The term "transvestite" is considered insulting now - don't use it. Use "cross dresser" instead."

Is this really true? If so - why?

If it's good enough for Frankenfurter, why isn't it good enough for this forum?

[kimdl93]

I would guess that you'll find some people who object to the term, just as you'll find people who object to any term. Labels can be useful. Debates about labels seem less so.

[mykell]

the only useful thing i have found with the terms was if doing a search on the web....try transvestite, then crossdresser, and then transgender,
now you see the difference for the vanilla muggles, me im a girly man.....

[audreyinalbany]

I'm not a fan of the term, but I will say it's preferable to "tranny"

[Kate Simmons]

I was a TV long before I was ever a CD. You say tomato I say tomatto I guess. :)

[Katey888]

Nikki - I think much of this stems from the association of transvestism with transvestic fetishism - the 'sexual branch' of our little community, if you will... Crossdresser is generally accepted as a more generic term of all genders who crossdress for reasons more varied than a purely sexual one... Most of us here, on this forum, will probably feel more at home and comfortable with not being overtly associated with TVF - which can be regarded as a psychological disorder... and anyway, sex is all very visceral and sweaty and base... :eek:

I suspect there is also a touch of snobbishness about it too... (I admit it - before the brickbats are hurled - I'm a major league snob.. :)) - it does, in my mind, tend to separate the femulators from those in pursuit of sexual adventure, but it's not an exclusionary term.

There's possibly also a hint of language fashion about it too... cross-trainer, cross-country, cross-platform... :thinking:

I guess a lot depends on how it's used and by whom, the context and how it's received... Would I rather be CD than TV? It does sound marginally more modern... ;)

Katey x

[ReluctantDebutant]

Anyone who finds the term transvestite offensive is being irrational. It literally is Latin for cross-dresser. To prefer cross-dresser over transvestite is to prefer one language's incarnation of the term over another's. In fact most languages' term for cross-dresser is some derivative of transvestite: German; Transvestit, Spanish; travestido, French; travesty. In fact I just tried Google Translate and could not get any real translations for cross-dresser I had to type transvestite in the English side for the other languages to translate it.

What happen here was that probably 60 of 70 years ago very few people knew what a transvestite was except for transvestites and psychologists. In the 1960-70's a lot of transvestites come out of the closet and more a more people knew what a transvestite was so people began to use it including haters. To some the term was used with such scorn they sought a new word that they preferred. So now we have cross-dresser but you will also find a growing group of cross-dressers who don't like that term either. To continue on this trend is asinine we will run out of perfectly good words.

Both terms are really harmless and are very accurate at defining the concepts they are meant to encapsulate.

[CONSUELO]

I tend to use the terms interchangeably. Transvestite literally means cross dresser but I think that the shortened form - Tranny- began to carry a lot of negative baggage so people began to use cross dresser.

[Jaylyn]

Don't really care what we call it I just enjoy dressing and feeling feminine every now and then. I do believe there are differing actions in every CD or Tranvestite person. Just being friends with many from here it seems many have different reasons to dress. Some for sex, some to feel sexual, some to take the place of sex, some having various degrees of what they dress to obtain from the dressing. I don't think of myself as Trans I think I'm just a normal guy enjoying wearing my soft, smooth, feel good clothes sometimes. Call me what you like my hide is tough.

[Adriana Moretti]

If you wanna get REAL geeky.....The word transvestite has been taking a downward spiral according to google analytics..while crossdresser is on it's way up.. food for thought ..
I only use that term in fun with other gals ....I will make fun of myself and others though with phrases like "Are we taking the tranny train today'......i kind of use it as a joking term just for fun. ....
The term to me personally makes me think of someone right out of rocky horror (which isnt to pretty of an image) .....but it dosent really bother me and is always good for a laugh like "Damm...look at that tranny mess"

[Amy Fakley]

... If it's good enough for Frankenfurter, why isn't it good enough for this forum?

237799
exhibit a: Frankenfurter

Before y'alls get yer panties in a wad ... I have no problem with fetishists, drag queens, shock performance artists/whatever ... or sharing this board with them. Some of them are amongst the most interesting and kind people I've ever met.

Their thing is slightly different than my thing though, there's no denying that. Making that distinction clear is sometimes important to me ... but not always, and certainly not to the point of being "offended" or whatever ...

[Lorileah]

Anyone who finds the term transvestite offensive is being irrational. It literally is Latin for cross-dresser. Really bad rationalization as many terms that are derogatory are /were derived from Latin or Greek roots. Just because a culture used it 400 years ago doesn't make it correct now.

What happen here was that probably 60 of 70 years ago very few people knew what a transvestite was except for transvestites and psychologists. you might go back and read a little history on that...look up the 1920's and the parties that were thrown.
To continue on this trend is asinine we will run out of perfectly good words.
or we will find one that is not derogatory and conveys a positive image. I don't get your point I guess...you mean someday someone somewhere will walk up to a TG and be at a loss of words? That would be ideal


Both terms are really harmless and are very accurate at defining the concepts they are meant to encapsulate. :facepalm: harmless? Wanna walk a mile in my shoes? Accurate? In small groups of people maybe in general....no where NEAR

[Stephanie47]

I really have not had a discussion with anyone concerning men who wear women's clothing. Among the general public it seems most people think "transgender" automatically means a man having a sex change operation, pre or post operation. Crossdresser seems to related to men who wear women's clothing. The ill informed still make some correlation that all cross dressers are homosexual. How many times have posters in the forum indicate their spouses' first question is "Are you gay?" When I have watched news programs on the subject of men wearing women's clothing, it seems the popular term is cross dresser. When the discussion is centered on the subject of a "misalignment" of the mind and physical body the term is transgender. I really haven't heard the general population, especially among the younger generations, use the term transvestite. The ill informed still make the equation crossdresser = homosexual.

Personally, I prefer the term "cross dresser" because it means just what it implies: wearing the clothes of the opposite gender. As an elder the term "transvestite" implies more than wearing the clothes of the opposite gender. I really do not like the term transgender because the term is too broad and open to a lot of interpretation. It is an umbrella term. Tranny, well, just put it in your search engine and see what pops up.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

...or we will find one that is not derogatory and conveys a positive image

IMO looking for descriptors that aren't derogatory and convey a positive image is another manifestation of political correctness. It's an idealised hope that humans, if instructed clearly and frequently enough, will cease being naughty and behave themselves. It isn't fundamentally wrong, indeed it's often well intended, but it is frequently misguided. Any term can become offensive, or not - and trying to predict all possible future outcomes for, eg, the word gay, is impossible.

[Amy Fakley]

"Political correctness" is a bit of a straw-man, in my opinion. You can argue until you're blue in the face, that the dictionary contains the one true meaning of all terms and that anyone who doesn't adhere to that is misguided, but it changes nothing.

Your words mean what the person hearing them thinks they mean. And when it comes to touchy subjects, that can really really backfire, if you don't take pains to make your intended meaning clear.

for instance:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22

Context means everything, dictionary definitions mean nothing.

[Taylor186]

"Context means everything, dictionary definitions mean nothing.

Generally I would agree that consulting a dictionary derivation adds little to this kind of label discussion. But in this case I think culture trumps context. People born and raised in the UK have little problem with the word "transvestite." Even Eddie Izzard publicly claims the title. We here in the US seem to have more problems with it for reasons already stated above. Me, I'll happily call myself a crossdresser (but, not a cross dresser). I'm a crossdresser who get little time to cross dress.

[Annaliese]

To me they are all just names, Insulting no, call me whatever, I did a "What Type Of Girl Are You" I got Typical Tomboy and it fit me.

[ReluctantDebutant]

Really bad rationalization as many terms that are derogatory are /were derived from Latin or Greek roots. Just because a culture used it 400 years ago doesn't make it correct now.

No that is not what is irrational about it. What is is when you give more emotional weight to one word over another when it means exactly the same thing. But when one uses rational thinking one sees the terms are Identical A=A.

Latin trans- + vestite, form of vestiō (“I clothe, I dress”) (as in English vestment, vest). Literally, a "cross-dresser".

And it does accurately describe what we do. We cross dress we cross or transcend our clothing or vestments it is much more poetic that some of the things I was called when I went out. "Chick with a d*ck" springs to mind. See I might not have walked a mile in your shoes but I think I walked far enough to understand the differences between a derogatory statement and a positive one.

you might go back and read a little history on that...look up the 1920's and the parties that were thrown.
Why stop at 1920 why not Elizabethan England, the Roman Empire, ancient Greece, Egypt? I chose the 60's and 70's because that was the time of the explosion of mass media bringing more subcultures into the homes of millions. Sure some New Yorker in the 20's might have know about the "girls" at the cabaret but what about some shopkeeper or farmer in rural Iowa?


or we will find one that is not derogatory and conveys a positive image. I don't get your point I guess...you mean someday someone somewhere will walk up to a TG and be at a loss of words? That would be ideal

Again how is transvestite derogatory and cross-dresser is not? If it is derogatory then I suggest to American Cross-dressers not visit any other country because most use some form of transvestite in their language to describe cross-dressing. I get it you want a TG to be thought of as indistinguishable from everyone else. But that is not going to happen the act of cross-dressing or being one who cross-dresses does make us distinct from those who don't. Human language needs a word to describe that distinction. Just because a few give a word more negative emotional weight than another word does not mean all who use that word apply the same negative weight to it.

Lets come up with a new word. Femulators. How long before that word gets around till the haters get a hold of it and start using it in a negative way spitting it with vile at ever femulator they see before the "Community" will want to change that word too? Words will be used by everyone however they wish to use it. To continue to change the "PC" term over and over again is very asinine.

[LelaK]

Apparently, transvestite is okay on this forum. They don't ban the word, like they do with the combination of she and male.

[Minerva Morgan]

It seems that Dr. Harry Benjamin, who created the belief that being transsexual was the whole of being transgendered through his deliberate, if erroneous, conflation of sex and gender, was a major factor in the development of ‘cross-dresser’ as a reaction to the term ‘transvestite’. Dr. Harry Benjamin described ‘transvestism’ as, together with ‘homosexuality’ and ‘bisexuality’, “… all revealing a disturbed, doubtful, confused, and uncertain manifestation of sex.” Even when reserving ‘transvestite’ as a term in Psychology indicative of the sexual aspects of cross-dressing this judgment is harsh. I do not believe that male androphiles are in any way doubtful about their sexuality and, if they are in fact disturbed and confused, it is value judgments such as those made by Dr. Benjamin that created the problem not their sexuality. The timing and known interactions between the relevant persons suggests that ‘cross-dresser’ was devised between 1967 and 1969 (although used in a somewhat vague application as early as 1912) in a direct response to and as a counter to Benjamin’s assertions. ‘Transvestite’, in some circles, became regarded as a form of deliberate insult. ‘Transgender’, at the same time (1969) was intended to refer to someone who adopted a wholly, full-time, feminine presentation but who did not transition. The media made short work of that intention by specifically using ‘transgender’ to mean ‘transsexual’. The media, while preferring to prey upon the prurient interests of the general public, is simultaneously fastidious in its prudery in avoiding the word ‘sex’, creating numerous misconceptions.
Zagria (2012) notes the use of the words ‘travestissent’, ‘travesties’ and ‘travestissement’ in an ordinance issued by the Paris Préfecture de Police, dated “16 Brumaire IX (7 November 1800 in the Gregorian calendar)”. Variations appear to have been in use as early as 1791 and presumably before. In this particular the ordinance forbade females from dressing as men without a permit and a letter from a physician stating that so dressing was a medical necessity. The ordinance seems to have no longer been seriously enforced after 1890. Zagria reproduces an image of permission 74 dated 1862. The first section of the ordinance is reproduced as:

“Informé que beaucoup de femmes se travestissent, et persuadé qu’aucune d’elles ne quitte les habits de son sexe que pour cause de santé;”

MtF cross-dressing was apparently no longer a crime by 1791. In, “Gender Variant Jargon”, Zagria also states:

• The Italian ‘travestire’ from the Latin ‘transvestire’ is recorded in the 16th century. It is first recorded in French as ‘transvestir’ in 1569, and had become ‘travestir’ by 1580. The Italian origin probably accounts for the retained ‘s’ rather than a circumflex, as opposed to ‘větir’ without the prefix. The original meaning is dressing up or disguise rather than gendervesting in particular. The English meaning of ‘travesty’ as ‘ridiculous’ is not used in the French.
• The word ‘travesty’ first became well known in England in 1648 with Scarron’s satire, “Le Virgile Travesty en vers burlesque.” So the modern English meaning of things done badly or ridiculously was there almost from the start, but so was the meaning of dressing as another.
• However the pseudo-French expression ‘en travesti’, using the past participle of the verb, which is not recorded in French, was used particularly in the theatre with the specific meaning of dressing as the other gender. This usage has continued from the seventeenth century until today.
• The verb form, ‘to travesty’, is not found until after 1700, and was not needed for the sense of Gendervesting, for the verb ‘to transvest’ is recorded from 1652: “How often did she please her fancy with the imagination of transvesting herself, and by the help of Man’s disguise deceiving the eyes of those who watched her deportment”. This usage, particularly applied to female-bodied persons continued into the nineteenth century.
• ‘Travestissement’ was being used in France by 1692.
• ‘Transvestisme’ is recorded in French in 1845. The Petit Robert lists it as an hapax (only one recorded instance) in this period, but just as Ed Wood used ‘transsexual’ before Harry Benjamin did, people on the street are using words before dictionary compilers catch up with them.
• ‘Travestiment’ was being used in England by 1832, and ‘Travestier’ by 1883.

It is important to note that while Hirschfeld is credited with inventing the term, transvestite, in the early 1900s as a means of dignifying the conditions he sought to study rather than stigmatizing it, he was not comfortable with the word, ‘transvestite’, and its various forms. In particular, he was referring to the sexual aspect of cross-dressing where a male dressed for sexual arousal often losing interest, or even developing self-loathing, once having climaxed. Gradually, Hirschfeld used the term in a more expanded version. He regarded the wearing of clothing usually associated with the other sex as indicative of psychological problems but not as a problem in itself. His intent was to make not only variations in gender more acceptable but to assist those who suffered in resolving their issues more easily. This included his fostering the concept of altering one’s gender appearance (anatomical presentation) to match one’s Gender Identity and included his promoting the practice of official recognition in changing of names and sex designations on official documents.
The term is Latin, meaning, basically, ‘across’ + ‘dressed’ taken from geographical terms such as transalpine (across the alps) and transylvania (across the forests). It, unfortunately, conveys the belief that genders (and also sexes) are ‘opposites’.
Hirschfield was not particularly happy with the term ‘transvestite’ as its usage has exceeded his original intention. It has also has been the basis of more pejorative terms such as ‘tranny’. Essentially, to me, it is an affectation in Psychology attempting to label everyone who does not fit an arbitrary sartorial norm (the Psychology version of morality) with a ‘diagnosis’ of some form of mental ailment. It sounds better if you say it in Latin.
For some the distinction between ‘cross-dresser’ and ‘transvestite’ is that the cross-dresser simply wears feminine clothing, as a means of self-expression, while the transvestite is sexually motivated. This attempt at distinction simply under-evaluates the significance of the sexual component of ‘dressing’ for the cross-dresser and over-evaluates its significance with a transvestite. In the latter case the term is suggested to be indicative of paraphilia and the term ‘transvestite’ is diagnostic in nature; which is precisely why objections have been raised to the term.
The term appears to have originated in 1911 as a translation of the German (?),’transvestismus’ (Hirschfeld, Magnus, “Die Transvestiten. Eine Untersuchung über den erotischen Verkleidungstrieb mit umfangreichem casuistischen und historischen Material”, Berlin 1910, Alfred Pulvermacher). The title is variously translated as something like, “The Transvestites: An Investigation of the Erotic Desire to Cross Dress”. Another (inaccurate) translation is, “The Transvestite: a study available via the sexy trim engine: with extensive casuistical and historical material”. Apparently ‘cross-dresser’ and ‘trim engine’ are synonyms in German. It seems that ‘trim engine’ is better translated as ‘urge to disguise’ with ‘Verkleidung’ meaning ‘disguise’ or ‘cover over’. As near as I can determine ‘casuistical’ refers directly to ethics defining morality based on precedence and/or situation; or to specious and dishonest reasoning. This is another term used in almost diametrically opposite meanings.
Hirschfeld’s efforts initiated the modern need for new terminology. Since this terminology often was the basis of diagnosing mental illness (or what was thought to be mental illness) there was a great deal of discomfort with the day-to-day application of these terms. ‘Transvestite’ in particular fell out of popular favour in the early 1970s especially amongst some cross-dressers who sought to disassociate themselves from transsexual persons, the Gay community and from those for whom cross-dressing was largely sexually motivated. In turn, elements of the Gay community sought to disassociate from cross-dressers in order to reduce the ‘femme’ imagery of male androphilia. In recognition of the objections made the psychological community devised the term ‘transvesticfetishism’. This may or may not be indicative of the questionable linguistic skills of psychologists in general as the proposition that sexual behaviour is necessarily a sickness is, in itself, insulting. There is also the term ‘homeovestism’ which is sexual arousal by wearing the clothing generally believed suitable to one’s own sex. Perhaps this refers to females who feel a heightened libido when athenasing for a special occasion. The concept further suggests that a vestiture-stimulated sexual response is equally possible for both sexes. I am not sure that this is the intention but it may be a term applicable to females who also dress not only to be attractive but also to be sexy (from their point-of-view) and thus experience sexual arousal. In other words, I am not sure that ‘transvestic fetishism’ is limited to males, except that in females it is not really ‘transvestic’. Perhaps, ‘transvestic fetishism’, in this context, should be ‘heterovestism’. Such are the difficulties of creating a new language. In any case, cross-dressing has, for many cross-dressers, become largely disconnected from the concept of dressing for sexual activities and is recognized as a goal or motive in itself.
To be fair, George Zavitzianos and Louise J. Kaplan in using the term ‘homeovestism’ may have a case in proposing that some people tend to be more ‘male’ in their attire, for example, as a compensation to their desire to cross-dress thereby sublimating that desire. This would be similar to male ‘homosexuals’ being ultra masculine and developing a violent ‘homophobia’ to mask their own inclinations from themselves as well as others.

Minerva.

Benjamin, Harry, MD, “The Transsexual Phenomenon”, Julian Press, New York, 1966, 10 March 2013, retrieved 25 February 2014 from:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090308045151/http://www.symposion.com/ijt/benjamin/
Hirschfeld, Magnus, “Die Transvestiten. Eine Untersuchung über den erotischen Verkleidungstrieb mit umfangreichem casuistischen und historischen Material”, Berlin, 1910, Alfred Pulvermacher.
Kaplan, Louise J., “Female Perversions: The Temptations of Madame Bovary”, Doubleday, 1991.
Zagria, “La Préfecture de Police, Paris, and permissions de travestissement”, ‘A Gender Variance Who’s Who’, 28 May 2012, retrieved 16 February 2014 at:
http://zagria.blogspot.ca/2012/05/la-prefecture-de-police-paris-and.html
Zavitzianos, George, “Homeovestism: Perverse Form of Behaviour Involving the Wearing of Clothes of the Same Sex”, ‘International Journal of Psychoanalysis’, 53 (4): pp. 471–477, 1972.

[Tina_gm]

I generally dislike political correctness, as it is ever changing. What was once a good term or word later on becomes offensive, because someone decided it so. Negro was once an acceptable term for a black person, and they can still use it when they want to, among other things, but it is no longer socially acceptable. Transvestite is no longer acceptable but I do not know why, other than someone decided it wasn't. Most of us consider ourselves as transgender, or behave in ways under the transgender spectrum umbrella.

I don't really care all that much about any word TBH, because one day it will change and another word will pop up in its place. I don't use it, as some people find it offensive, so I use the current terms, which will one day become offensive and then I will use whatever isn't, as stupid as it all is.

[Kate Simmons]

Holey Moley. Call me anything but "late for dinner". :heehee::)

[Taylor Ray]

I would guess that you'll find some people who object to the term, just as you'll find people who object to any term. Labels can be useful. Debates about labels seem less so.

Well said!

Such an interesting line of inquiry! The relationship between semantics and unwritten social norms is very interesting indeed! But we all know philosophy can be a huge can of worms...

So, as many of the fine gals have expressed on this forum: live your life the way you want to! Be a participant! The "observers" can call me anything they want!

[Tiffany Jane]

I believe it has become unacceptable because those who use it haven't taken the time to understand the term, nor taken the time to understand the people whom they are referring. Therefore, it appears to have a very negative connotation, when used. Crossdresser, by the sound, is less about the emotion or psyche of a person, and more to describe ones appearrance.

I used to work in an area with many transgendered people and customers. I would ask coworkers not to use the forementioned T term, giving the reason that anyone has the right to be themselves however it is regardless of how others may feel about it. Many of these customers were merely going through the same weekly routines all people who have to eat do and only on rare occassions did I think someone was overtly emphatic with there demeanor causing extra attention to themselves.

Just my perspective.

[MonikaTirola]

Very interesting Minerva. Thanks for the discourse.

As a native German speaker, I would like tone break down
"Verkleidungstrieb" , I wound translate it as urge/instinct/drive to disguise.

Other correct translations include:
Paneling sprout , casing pinion, sheathing shoot and wait another possibility
costume sex drive :)

As others have said; it is all about context.

[Giselle(Oshawa)]

in many circle's now crossdresser is meant to be a straight person wearing the clothes of the opposite sex
whereas transvestite has come to mean a gay person wearing the clothes of the opposite sex
in my humble opinion crossdresser seems a nicer term and not a medical term

[Nikkilovesdresses]

"whereas transvestite has come to mean a gay person wearing the clothes of the opposite sex"

That's interesting Giselle, how do these unique meanings arise I wonder?

"crossdresser seems a nicer term and not a medical term"

I'd have to agree with that, though instead of medical I'd probably put it down to the difference between formality and informality; Latin/Greek v Norse/French words (though cross did come originally from a Latin root)

[Karen kc]

I am a crossdresser! But ya'll can call me anything you like! I will not be offended!

[Beverley Sims]

It is strange sometimes how the English language and moral standards evolve and change over time.

Look at some terms commonly used for a black man or some other race.

Some are now outlawed.

[DonnaT]

No, it's not true.

Tranny is the term to be avoided, as it is considered an insult or derogatory to non transvestites, much like the "N" word is considered an insult or derogatory.

Crossdresser became the term to be used instead of Transvestite due to Virginia Prince and the founding of Tri-ess back in the 1970's, which was restricted to heterosexual male crossdressers. The term Transvestite has not used because of the link to being gay.

[audreyinalbany]

"Anyone who finds the term transvestite offensive is being irrational. It literally is Latin for cross-dresser. "

ehhh, I don't know about this. "negro" literally means 'black," yet there are plenty of people who fine the word "negro" offensive.

[Isabella Ross]

Like Kate said, call me anything but late for dinner. I am a proud transvestite, crossdresser, t-gurl, transgendered human being. All these words are music to my ears.

[NicoleScott]

in many circles now crossdresser is meant to be a straight person wearing the clothes of the opposite sex
whereas transvestite has come to mean a gay person wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.


"In many circles" and "has come to mean" seem to be the problem. I looked up transvestite in the M-W dictionary - no mention of sexual preferences.
These disagreements about words will continue as long as people make up their own definitions.

[Allison Chaynes]

We live in a time where everyone LOOKS for some reason to be offended. If they can't find one, they invent one. This is, IMHO, an example.

[Sam-antha]

I was a TV long before I was ever a CD. You say tomato I say tomatto I guess. :)

Agreed. I was a TV back in the late fifties. Nowadays I think that the descriptor CD would have perhaps been more welcomeat that time

[CONSUELO]

No, it's not true.

Tranny is the term to be avoided, as it is considered an insult or derogatory to non transvestites, much like the "N" word is considered an insult or derogatory.

Crossdresser became the term to be used instead of Transvestite due to Virginia Prince and the founding of Tri-ess back in the 1070's, which was restricted to heterosexual male crossdressers. The term Transvestite has not used because of the link to being gay.

Is it because both terms were abbreviated and used in a derogatory sense. Hence transvestite became "Tranny" which began to accumulate negative connotations. It is also easy to say tranny in a nasty and insulting way whereas you cannot abbreviated cross dresser so easily. Those darned "crossies" doesn't seem very nasty whereas tranny could be said in a sneering voice.

Also it seems to be the human condition that we love to split hairs. So, we are not like drag queens or I'm just a heterosexual cross dresser and not a transexual. Categorization is always difficult if based only on external appearance and behaviour. Look at the problems with plant classification that were only resolved when scientists were able to map their deep structure, i.e. their DNA.

This is a discussion that will continue for years.

[Promethea]

"Anyone who finds the term transvestite offensive is being irrational. It literally is Latin for cross-dresser. "

ehhh, I don't know about this. "negro" literally means 'black," yet there are plenty of people who fine the word "negro" offensive.

It´s interesting how that happen to words. In my Spanish speaking country "negro" has always been the "right" word, about 20 years ago some people thought "moreno" (which actually means dark haired) should be used instead but it never took off, partly because most black people have no issue with the word "negro" and even take pride of it. Now less than ten years ago, some young black people quite influenced by american culture decided both of those were offensive and came up with "afro descendiente", meaning "descendant from Africa", which, if you know just a bit about anthropology, we all are.


Agreed. I was a TV back in the late fifties. Nowadays I think that the descriptor CD would have perhaps been more welcomeat that time

TV, CD, whatever, I´m a radio.

Now, less trying to be funny or off topic: I don´t like the word. At least in Spanish it is considered a despective word towards TS, and being TS I don´t like it, yet sometimes I do use it myself when I need to say something crudely. I think it is offensive because it actually does refer to what we now call male self identified crossdressers. At least in Uruguay and Argentina there is no "mainstream" word for crossdressers, the country is too conservative for anybody to be out and about as a CD. Amongst the LGBTQ folks the word I´ve heard (and that brought me to this forum) was not "travesti", but "crossdresser". Yup, the English word.

[ReineD]

"The term "transvestite" is considered insulting now - don't use it. Use "cross dresser" instead."


Not to me. The term is used consistently in research and so I'm used to it. It's really only the latin form of the word crossdresser. "Trans" means "cross", and "vestite" means clothing. Also, I think the term TV is used more overseas than it is here so I don't think the people in the UK see it as derogatory?

[Judith96a]

I identify as a cross-dresser. I'm not by either "transvestite" or "tranny".
The way I see it, it's much easier to take offence than to give offence; much easier to (choose to) be offended than to be offensive.
Taking offence; whining about being offended is just another way of trying to control others! It is the antithesis of freedom of expression!

[Angie G]

all me what you want as long as it's not late for dinner. I know what I am.:hugs:
Angie

[~Joanne~]

I only have two labels for all of this, CD or TG. If you dress for whatever reason and it just about the clothes in it's barest form, then your CD. If you have a "inner girl" just screaming to get out, your TG. forget the rest of them. They make my head hurt.

[devida]

As a native German speaker, I would like tone break down
"Verkleidungstrieb" , I wound translate it as urge/instinct/drive to disguise.
.

Fabulous! I do believe that much of the hostility towards cross dressing people report (I don't experience this personally) may come from a suspicion that cross dressers are trying to disguise their true identity.

[RachelPortugal]

Here we are on crossdressers.com and the spellchecker puts a squiggly red line under crossdresser, so it is not a word that vBulletin even recognises. So, in the US where the consensus of opinion favours using "crossdresser", the word does not exist in the US English dictionary used by the forum. Mods, as a user of GB English, can I change my user settings?


Generally I would agree that consulting a dictionary derivation adds little to this kind of label discussion. But in this case I think culture trumps context. People born and raised in the UK have little problem with the word "transvestite." Even Eddie Izzard publicly claims the title. We here in the US seem to have more problems with it for reasons already stated above. Me, I'll happily call myself a crossdresser (but, not a cross dresser). I'm a crossdresser who get little time to cross dress.

This just about confirms that the UK and the USA are one nation divided by a common language.


I generally dislike political correctness, as it is ever changing. What was once a good term or word later on becomes offensive, because someone decided it so. Negro was once an acceptable term for a black person, and they can still use it when they want to, among other things, but it is no longer socially acceptable. Transvestite is no longer acceptable but I do not know why, other than someone decided it wasn't. Most of us consider ourselves as transgender, or behave in ways under the transgender spectrum umbrella.

I don't really care all that much about any word TBH, because one day it will change and another word will pop up in its place. I don't use it, as some people find it offensive, so I use the current terms, which will one day become offensive and then I will use whatever isn't, as stupid as it all is.

Nowadays only a black person can call himself/herself a negro. Applying this rule of political correctness or social acceptability, it is up to individuals to decide on what label they may wish to be applied to them. Don't refer to anyone as a transvestite or a crossdresser until you have checked which term he/she is happy with.

My signature strip say crossdresser, but I would not be offended if I was called a transvestite. I don't like being called a tranny, but am happy to refer to myself as such.

Personally I would never refer to someone as being black, they are just men or women. I do not like to be referred to as white, my skin colour is far from the white of the wall of my home.

[Marcelle]

Well you all know my take on "labels" . . . they lead nowhere fast when it comes to a debate on what is right and what is wrong. I agree when a term is used in a negative hate filled way I have no time for people like that and will call them on it. But in most cases people use the term because they really don't know the difference and it is up to us to educate them in order to defuse the improper meaning of the word. In reality "words don't hurt people, people hurt people in how they use the word".

I have had friends say "So you are a transvestite like Rocky in the Rocky Horror Picture Show" After I correct them that Rocky was the monster and Dr Frankenfurter the transvestite :) I reply "In the sense that I like to wear women's clothes. However, I don't dress in the same way as I prefer more mainline clothing." I then go on to educate the whole spectrum of labels from Drag Queen to Transsexual. I have had other people call me a cross-dresser and again I am not hurt by the term because they are trying to make sense of it. An acquaintance once said "So you are a Tranny" to which I replied "If by Tranny you mean I like to wear women's clothing on occasion then yes. However, please don't use that term as it can be seen as offensive to some". He apologized.

My point is that we get wrapped up in derogatory remarks (and is some cases rightly so) but those who use them in a hate filled way are ignorant DBags who have the intellectual capacity of a petrified raisin and will most likely never change their point of view. However, most who use the term truly don't know the difference and a quick explanation will normally change their perspective. Any word we come up with to describe ourselves will get hi-jacked by the haters and used in a derogatory sense. That is why when people ask me how I describe myself, I like to use the term "person" . . . just saying. :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

[sometimes_miss]

Back in the 90's there was at some point, a reference to the splitting of the two terms to help 'outsiders' understand that there was a difference, that not every one of us was using the clothes for a kinky purpose; so transvestite was reserved for those who derived sexual feelings from dressing up, and crossdresser was used for those of us who did not. Whether it was just on the usenet or more widely used, I don't know. But that's where I remember the difference showing up. Until then, both terms just meant the same thing. As we still do not have any other words which explain which behavior is which, rather than confuse the world, it's simply easier to continue using the terms as they have now come to be used. Unless someone has a better idea, of course.

[Katie Russell]

I've always thought the the term transvestite was little clinical whereas crossdresser is a softer and an easier to understand way of describing what we do. Unfortunately, the slang version of transvestite - tranny - is used by many as a derogatory term which is why it is probably not liked anymore. Using the term within the community is OK in the same way as other communities use words that are not acceptable to be used by people outside of the community.

Katie

[RachelPortugal]

Back in the 90's there was at some point, a reference to the splitting of the two terms to help 'outsiders' understand that there was a difference, that not every one of us was using the clothes for a kinky purpose; so transvestite was reserved for those who derived sexual feelings from dressing up, and crossdresser was used for those of us who did not. Whether it was just on the usenet or more widely used, I don't know. But that's where I remember the difference showing up. Until then, both terms just meant the same thing. As we still do not have any other words which explain which behavior is which, rather than confuse the world, it's simply easier to continue using the terms as they have now come to be used. Unless someone has a better idea, of course.

As wikipedia would say, "Additional citations needed for verification"!

I still understand crossdresser and transvestite as being the same thing, some of us just prefer one label to the other. Adjectives can be used to further define the extent of a CD/TV. A CD can be described as fetishist, kinky or cissy, just as much as a TV.

[Teresa]

Nikki,
Lorileah has put the labels right, the words are interchangeable ! The Latin translated makes no mention of sexual content !
Labels will always upset some people as far as I'm concerned I will be called something slightly insulting at some point I'll have to live with it, but I do have a tongue in my head so can give as good as I get if the need arises !

[kimgirl]

From my perspective, I prefer to be described as a crossdresser.

The English language is a living language and so evolves continuously. In contrast, Latin is a dead language. Also printed dictionaries are a backward form of describing words. They show our language up to the point of publishing. The gay community have used the word "gay" for some time now, and has a modern take on the original meaning. My 84 year old mother still uses the word gay to mean happy - fun - bright, and the new meaning for gay takes that and applies it to homosexuals. The words used in the past of queer - homo - etc all had bad connotations of fetish sex attached to them in the wider community. So gay is a more acceptable word today. I am sure that that evolution of the word that describes a percentage of humans has helped with their wider acceptance.

I think I can safely say that many of us would welcome a broader acceptance of our crossdressing in the wider community. The words transvestite or tranny hold meaning in the wider community to not just mean crossdressing, but also attaches itself with fetishes, sex, and homosexuality. Now, it may be the case that some could be crossdressers and enjoy these other aspects, but I guess there are many who don't. So I think the word transvestite is a label understood by those uneducated masses that had too many aspects to it that I don't subscribe to do. So that T word does not describe what I am. I am simply a man who enjoys many aspects of being a woman, but also enjoy being a man.

In the name of gaining a wider acceptance and understanding of the world at large, I would prefer to use the word "crossdresser".

[RachelPortugal]

.......

The English language is a living language and so evolves continuously. In contrast, Latin is a dead language. Also printed dictionaries are a backward form of describing words.



Yet, with the electronic dictionary that supports this forum, "transvestite" is not marked as incorrect spelling whereas "crossdresser" is! ??

[Sissy_Michelle]

Nikki,
No matter where you go, someone, somewhere, will be offended by what you say or do. There is no way you can please everyone. Be yourself. Don't change yourself because someone may get upset over who you are. Because the only person that gets hurt is you.

"I understand how you feel, many have felt the same way. But what I have found is that my happiness is more important than your feelings. If you don't care for the way I speak or look then please fine other people to hang around with." We live in a society where we are afraid to speak because someone may be offended. I for one do not wish to offend anyone so I do my best to stay away from those types of people. I am sure someone here will not like what I have wrote, that they have a more "PC" way of speaking. Good for them I appreciate that they can write in such a way as to convey a better message for you.

Bottom line is... No one can make you happy but you. If you live in fear over what you say or how you look then change it.
Merry Christmas
@--}---
Michelle

[Shelly Preston]

To those who worry about Spelling you will find lots of words which are different depending on where you live.

Judgment or Judgement is a good example both are correct.

Transvestite & Cross-dresser both have the same meaning but as with everything it is all about how its used.