a bit depressed

[nacracat]

Does anyone else look at flickr and get depressed about how good other CD's look and how you wish you could look that good. I do :(

[SandraInHose]

Heck, I get depressed just looking at some of the avatars here!

As one of those who will never be passable, just reading all of these 'first time out' posts make me envious.

[flatlander_48]

It's all relative. And like Life in general, it's about doing the best with what you have to work with.

As Sheryl Crow said in "Soak Up The Sun":

It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got.

The other thing is, when you see someone else's photos, you don't know about the time, effort and sacrifices that went into what you see.

[Cheryl Ann Owens]

I could allow myself to get very depressed just by looking in the mirror. Unfortunately many of us cannot easily transform into beautiful swans. Many of us are ugly ducklings as women IF we choose to see ouselves that way. I'm sure today with endless amounts of cash I could become a beautiful swan. But that's only a dream. I too envy many gals I see here who can easily blend in to society.

But here's a bright side. Even staying at home we can be who we are. And even better I've been to support group meetings where anyone is accepted just the way they are. I know one CD who is about 6'-6" with a large man's jaw who presents herself with poise in many public situations. She will boldly walk into a restaurant with friends probably with a thick-skinned attitude of, "Don't like what you see? Then don't look!" Even in drab, people have talked behind my back. Who cares? It only defines ther character to those around them.

Cheryl

[Shannon Summer]

All of the time.

[Nicole Erin]

You do realize most of them probably don't look anywhere NEAR that good in real life right?
It would be a case of, "What happened between the picture and real life?"
Kind of like car shopping. Looks good in the pic but you see it real life and run into several, "Ohhh, hmm, that wasn't evident in the photo..."

Well like this - I used to go to beauty school with this one lady. In her "social media" pics, she looked like a model, I mean stunning! Like the kind of woman that would make you forget your own name.
But in REAL life, she was pretty gross. It was her but she was usually stumbling around confused on drugs, and just didn't do herself up very well.
I have seen a few TG who took awesome pics but then real life it was like, "Where is the lady in the photo?"

No need to feel jealous or depressed, a picture shows only the best possible image.

[flatlander_48]

I know one CD who is about 6'-6" with a large man's jaw who presents herself with poise in many public situations.

Cheryl

Remember that RuPaul is 6'-4" barefoot...

[Jodi]

Not at all. I'm at that point in my life where I'm at peace with who I am and what I've got.

Jodi

[bridget thronton]

It is not a competition - you only need to please yourself

[Requal Jo]

I know that I could never be as beautiful as they are so therefore it does not worry me.

[Dianne S]

I wouldn't say I get depressed. But I guess sometimes I feel a bit wistful. I'm not aiming to look beautiful, but I am aiming to pass. No-one seems to give me a second glance when I go out grocery shopping, to the library, or whatever as a woman but when I look in the mirror I still see a guy looking back at me.

I think it's perfectly normal human nature to want to improve and to be a little envious when you see people who apparently look so much better than you.

[Barbara Ella]

And if you saw the other 200 pictures taken before getting 1 to post, things might not look quite so rosy. Be accepting of yourself and work on making that work for you in your situation.

Barbara

[Sallee]

Not really I realize that we are all looking for the best pics to post. The camera has a way of distorting reality. We may pass well in a fot but up close its not so easy. I often wish we could see the height and weight. Because we all know that can turn heads and make a perfect picture not a pleasant reality. It is similar to facebook where every one leads a perfect life with the perfect family.
Truth is we all have our demons

[catherine56]

It is not a competition - you only need to please yourself

I agree with you Bridget
He have a big difference between 20 and 60 years old. We only try to do the best we can

[docrobbysherry]

I admire anyone who is lucky enuff, or makes the effort, to look good!:daydreaming:

When I began dressing 17 years ago? I almost quit before I really got into it because of how I looked in the mirror!:doh:
Out of despiration, I tried on a mask one Halloween and Sherry was born!:battingeyelashes:
When I wanted a sexier figure? 7 years ago I lost about 20 pounds. Now, I can NEVER go out and pass, but I'm very pleased with my images in mirror and pics!
I know countless CD's that have done the same.:thumbsup:

This is not a competition. U only have to please yourself. As men, u have learned to gage your rung on the ladder with others regarding looks, education, financial success, and lifestyle. And, to live with the results. If u aren't satisfied? U work harder until u r! Or, u can sit on your recliner and bitch about life.:sad:

I believe your girlie looks work the same way. If u really want to look good? U will keep working until u do! Or, at least until you're satisfied.:D

["Gabriela"]

It is not a competition - you only need to please yourself

So true!
Another thing is: if you feel uncomfortable about something with your look and you think you can do something about it, the DO IT and enjoy the process. That's my current situation :) There are girls here who look so awesome, all ages, not necessarily the younger ones, and I adore how they look and feel so happy for them. Also, remember that most of the pics on those pages are a bit photoshoped haha! Just love what you've got and enjoy the ride :D

Hugs!
Gabriela

[Beverley Sims]

Nope! not depressed but then again my use by date expired a long time ago.
I have other dreams to live now.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Not at all. I'm a realist who will never pass. That doesn't mean I don't admire the looks that some gurls can achieve but I'm pretty pleased with what I can achieve also. And that is what matters to me.

[Zylia]

You do realize most of them probably don't look anywhere NEAR that good in real life right?
Came here to say this. It's not only that pictures show only the best possible image, many of them don't even show a real image. Cross-dressers use photoshop too.

[JillyJones]

I don't get depressed but I do wish I could look like my avatar again. Getting a bit older now and time isn't being kind :)

[Luciana Vitale]

Not depressed ,I know that there are a lot pics of girls much younger and beautiful,but everything is on the feeling
But as somebody said only some envious about the girls that go into the real world, something i wish !!!

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Nacracat, you should not get depressed as you present as one who should be envied. You present most feminine & pretty. You should be proud of you. Peace, mel

[carrie2014]

my problem is not only I don't look like a female when i look in the mirror but when i look i would like to see a 25 year old female not a 65 year old female all i can do is dress like a am 25 and don't leave the house.

[Rachael Leigh]

Honestly no I don't get depressed and in fact I admire those who work so hard to look as good as they do.
I get more depressed when I can't dress lol.

[michelleddg]

Lots of good points here. My thoughts:

o In this age of digital technology you don't take one shot of a scene, you take eight. Click click click click click click click click. Then you choose the best one. Makes all the difference.

o In this age of digital technology you don't shoot one scene, you shoot twenty. Then you choose the best one. Makes all the difference.

o Lighting, angles and camera techniques make all the difference.

o Effective posing makes all the difference.

o Preparation makes all the difference. Your shots will look much better if you've had professional hair and makeup.

o If you're tall, you don't shoot standing up with others in the shot who are short.

o I photoshop pretty much all my photos for cropping and auto-improvement. And, in the interest of full information, I often wipe out my adam's apple.

o I've had a couple of professional boudoir shoots. They are heavily photoshopped, that's just part of the deal.

In summary, yes, that's me in the photos, and you would recognize me on the street from them Are they representative of what I look like? Sadly, no, they are greatest hits.

Hugs, Michelle

[justmetoo]

The only photoshopping I do in my photos is color balance or enhancing the contrast and cropping/reducing the size to fit forum guidelines, otherwise I often get photos that are a little too dark. That said, I do try to pic the best shots of those pics I do take.
But I agree that it's not a competition, you only have to please yourself. I think it's pointless to compare yourself to others, there are so many variables, and photos are different from seeing a person in the flesh. We all work with what we have. Take care and be kind to yourself!

[lingerieLiz]

Many of the gg stars and models don't even recognize themselves when they see their cover pictures. Some people are more photogenic than others. The other thing is when you see a picture of yourself it is reversed from what you see in a mirror. One reason many don't like their pictures because reversed it doesn't look as you envisioned. Then again not every girl can be a star or a model. So relax and enjoy life and be the best you can.

I dated several models and want-a-be stars. The girls that I enjoyed dating the most were real-life girls.

[BeckySmith]

I am certainly a bit envious, but I try not to get depressed. Having fun is what it's all about!

[Barbara Dugan]

Yes Indeed you can make yourself look better on pics, but its a lot more fun enjoying your dressing for whatever reason you do it...I used to take some pictures that came out good but in the end I still hated myself. Now I dress just to be myself, no need to worry about lighting or the correct pose or how many compliments I got, I closed my flickr account for good and probably wont post a picture anymore, unless is for a very special reason

[LelaK]

When Depressed
Get Deep rest.

When I see beautiful CDs/TGs, I get inspired. I can look beautiful too. I just need a mask.

[Carolana]

I read this thread earlier and came back to it as I just realized something. Many genetic females go through the same kind of envy of those who look better than they perceive themselves to look. Go figure. Too bad they haven't discovered photoshop like some of us have. Or have they?😳 😉 Mind you, they are linking it to attraction and ourselves (most of us) to merely passing. Similar and yet so different. Many instructors of feminizing speak of mannerisms and body language as keys to passing in public. As important as looks are, one can still give away a male gender underneath it all. Wow. It all sounds like so much work. Women have an unfair advantage of having a head start being born female. So I applaud anyone who has graduated to complete passability. Cudos to y'all.

[ReineD]

Many genetic females go through the same kind of envy of those who look better than they perceive themselves to look. Go figure.

Not true. Most of us really do accept how we look, just like most men accept how tall they are and how they look compared to other men.

[Kate T]

Not true. Most of us really do accept how we look, just like most men accept how tall they are and how they look compared to other men.

Really, seriously. Cause thats why, at least in Australia, we have entire floors of department stores devoted to cosmetics and the most common surgical procedures in the western world are cosmetic? I'm not even going to mention Botox!

Reine, I get your point. Frankly I would love it if we were all completely accepting of how we and others look and not envious of others looks. The unwitting implication of the above statement though is that CD's are odd in being envious of others good looks. It is a perfectly normal response. What you need to differentiate is the healthy "wow that person is REALLY attractive" from the obsessive / depressive "I'm so ugly because I'm not as attractive as that person".

[bobbimo]

I never get depressed looking at how wonderful some of you girls look. Its an inspiration to make the extra effort for myself.
Actually I do the same if I am watching TV and there are some well dressed women on. I'll dissect their wardrobe and makeup to look for interesting techniques.
It may not look the same but its so much fun to try. The canvas may not be stretched very tight, but the picture on it looks just as lovely.
Bobbi

[Tracii G]

I crop pics just to get the size down and get other things out of the pic.
I have no idea how photoshop works so my pics are what you see is what you get.
Out of 50 pics I may get a few decent ones and thats what I post.
Nicole Erin pretty much has it right on this one.

[Lily Catherine]

What you need to differentiate is the healthy "wow that person is REALLY attractive" from the obsessive / depressive "I'm so ugly because I'm not as attractive as that person".

Word. I don't consider myself passable facially (my body can somewhat pass) but I consider it a waste of emotional energy to be depressed - in itself too strong a word - over how I look as a lady. What I do feel sad about would be part of my mannerism and gait that might well out me inadvertently.

[Jorja]

Inquiring minds need to know Beverly, did you get used before your date expired or did you just shovel the dirt over him and keep on going? ;)

[Annaliese]

Sometimes, then I think if they can I can, I have improved since I found this place.

[Bria]

I think I'm like Beverly, my use by date passed--ummm----maybe 20 years ago, but I ignored that and just keep on keeping on. no sense worry about something that you can't control. One thing about advancing age, besides the fact that I've gotten a lot smarter, is that ggs my age don't look 20something any more either!

Another day on this side of the grass is a good one!!!!

Hugs, Bria

[Nadya]

I'm sure everyone has something they wish they could change no matter how good they looked. I'm guilty of envying others for how well they are put together. I try to make myself feel better by saying that women come in all shapes and sizes. I guess its just a matter of appreciating what you do have. :)

[ReineD]

Really, seriously. Cause thats why, at least in Australia, we have entire floors of department stores devoted to cosmetics and the most common surgical procedures in the western world are cosmetic? I'm not even going to mention Botox!

It's only socialization, nothing else. Envy doesn't come into it.

Many CDers in this forum write about having been socialized as males and how this made it difficult to accept themselves as CDers. Similarly, women are socialized to "look like the women in magazines". It is true that we are bombarded from a young age (beginning with Barbie's unrealistic body), with ads, catalogs, etc, that sell us clothing, makeup, hair products, always that next thing that promises to bring us close to that "ideal". And yes, many (or most?) of us do fall for it, we do want to attract mates, although less so as we age. I'm in my 50s and I observe that in general, my friends and the women my age I see when I'm out and about aren't into makeup and the latest fashion half as much as are younger women. I suppose we've grown into ourselves now, we are self-confident, most of us have no need to attract a mate anymore, and so those of us who do keep our wardrobes updated do so to maintain a professional appearance at work (although even this is going by the way of the dinosaur as work wear becomes ever more casual, among both women and men).

So buying makeup and clothing (BTW, men buy clothing too) does not mean that we are a bunch of envious green-eyed monsters who become inwardly miserable when we see a photo of a beautiful woman. We just look at what are the options available to us, and we work with what we are given. Women do buy makeup, and depending on their circumstances they do keep their wardrobes updated, they do adorn themselves to various degrees depending mostly on their ages, but they also accept how they look in comparison to another woman. And personal adornment becomes less and less a priority as we age. Does this make sense?

Judging by the posts I've read over the years, there seems to be an attitude among many CDers here that women are jealous, just plain jealous of everything it seems … from good-looking CDers to good-looking women. Honestly, this is Not my experience nor is it the experience of most of the women that I know, although I'm sure there are some people who have such low self-esteem that they allow how others look to affect their internal landscapes. However, I do think the reverse is true, that the CDers who say that GGs are jealous or envious are actually projecting their own feelings of envy onto us!

[TinaZ]

I think Reine brings up a good point about the societal aspects in this discussion. My guess is that the jealousy really isn't a big thing among women, but the appearance of jealousy is partially a social behavior.

Here's what I mean: last spring, as the weather began warming, a longtime GG friend posted a picture of herself on Facebook. In the shot, she was in a bikini lounging by her pool and captioned it with something about starting summer early. She's very pretty and obviously is fit, so it was a lovely photo. But the responses were fascinating to me.

Many guys left sly, flirty comments. But almost all of her female friends posted remarks that boiled down to, "You look beautiful. I HATE you!" It was the oddest thing. It was comment after comment from women friends both complimenting her, the teasingly deriding her for looking good.

I actually asked one of her friends why she left a comment like that, and her reply was essentially, "She knows we love her, but you know us girls - we gotta keep each other in check."

I still don't get it entirely. I do know that around here, most often our compliments to each other are caveat-free. We don't follow a compliment with a teasing put down, in other words. So I have to believe socialization plays a role in how men and women respond to beauty.

[ReineD]

We had one GG member here who I remember explained it well (Shananigans). When we say, "You're so gorgeous, I hate you or I'm so envious", it is meant as a compliment. But everyone engages in playful insults, even guys (http://collegetimes.com/2014/06/25/sht-guys-say-to-each-other-when-theyre). I tend to think the practice is more common among the young. I can't imagine myself saying "I hate you" to my best friend when I think she looks nice. lol.

[SherriePall]

I do get depressed looking at some of the girls here and elsewhere, but not for the reason many would suspect. I sometimes get depressed because I could never seriously practice my dressing when I was younger. If only I could have, I might be envious of how I once looked. But I'll never know.

[Kate T]

@ Reine

My apologies. Of course most women are not driven by constant envy (good god, that would be an awful world!) and I agree that there is at times a tendency for the CD (and even the TS) to displace their own feelings of inadequacy onto others, especially women. I was rude and frankly a little manipulative in my post. I did deliberately try to goad you into a longer response. That was condescending and I apologise for it.

However I will ask that you and everyone else consider this. If it is purely socialisation does that explain significant body modifying interventions i.e. cosmetic surgery? Are the waiting rooms of plastic surgeons filled exclusively with 18-25 year old women enhancing their chances of getting a sexual partner?

@ OP

Yes sometimes I do see a picture of a very attractive CD and think "wow, I'll never look that good". But as Reine has implied, what you need to do is work on and see the inner beauty in yourself. You are unique, revel in it.

[DonnaT]

Depressed, no; more like envious.

[scarletcd]

I used to envy people, despite how you feel there will always be someone who you think looks better. These days though like a lot of you here I use that as inspiration :).

[ReineD]

If it is purely socialisation does that explain significant body modifying interventions i.e. cosmetic surgery? Are the waiting rooms of plastic surgeons filled exclusively with 18-25 year old women enhancing their chances of getting a sexual partner?

Well, the majority of the procedures are minimally invasive (botox mostly) and not significant body modifying interventions as you suggest.

The following statistics are from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (http://www.plasticsurgery.org/Documents/news-resources/statistics/2012-Plastic-Surgery-Statistics/full-plastic-surgery-statistics-report.pdf). In 2012, there were 14 million cosmetic surgery procedures in the US. 91% of these (12.8M) were done on women. In 2012 there were 125 million women over age 13 in the US. To place this in perspective this means that 90% of women will not have cosmetic surgery.

If you want a quick breakdown, there were 1.5 million total invasive procedures. The top surgeries in order of magnitude were breast augmentation for women (286,000), and for both men and women, nose reshaping, eyelid surgery, liposuction, and facelifts.

In contrast, there were 12.5 million minimally invasive procedures, the largest of which was botox (6.1M) followed by soft tissue fillers (2M), chemical peels (1.1M), and laser hair removal (1.1M). A close fifth was microdermabrasion.

So other than the breast augmentations which account for merely 2% of all the procedures (one in 500 women will have a BA), I'd say the biggest motive is to look younger, or slimmer (obesity is on the rise), or ameliorate an undesirable physical feature.

Why are more women than men opting for cosmetic surgery? For the same reason they wear makeup; they are indeed socialized to live up to a media ideal of beauty, which values youth more than age. Women are also scrutinized and judged for their appearance (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/debora-spar-barnard-president_n_4062689.html) much more than men. The biggest procedures among women are youth-enhancing (i.e. botox) and the largest age group to get that done is in the 40-54 range.

FYI, the women getting BAs are within the mate-getting phases of their lives. 68% of BAs are done on women under age 39.

[Kate T]

I don't understand then the difference between behaviours induced by socialisation and behaviours induced by envy? Surely socialisation produces the envy that then results in the aforementioned behaviours? Without the envy of someone who looks younger / has brighter lips / bigger breasts why would an individual pursue such interventions, even the "minimally invasive" ones? Are they not doing them to make society as a whole envious of them ie. Wow, doesn't she look great for her age, I wish I could look that good when I am her age??

[ReineD]

If you were not a CDer … pretend for a moment that you only desire to live and present as a male at all times … would you be envious of males who are taller than you, stronger than you, have the Porshe and have for a girlfriend the hottest girl in town (or for that matter have a different woman on their arm every weekend)?

I don't think you would be. You'd acknowledge the difference, and if these things were important you might go to the gym. If you were ambitious and working in a company culture that valued youth and energy over age and experience, you might get the gray out of your hair. If you grew up with a nose that you had always hated because it was so big or if you had very large ears that bothered you, you might get it fixed. But I don't think that envy over how others look and what they have would come into it. Your best friend might even have all the things mentioned in paragraph 1, and you would not enjoy his company any less.

My very first post in this thread … the thing that started this entire discussion was about a comment by a CDer who suggested that women are envious of other women who are more beautiful than them. This is simply not true. It's one thing to wish for self-improvement for whatever reasons, whether we are socialized to seek the media ideal of feminine beauty, or whether we want to change the nose that we unfortunately inherited from Grandpa, or whether we want to maintain a competitive edge with the newer younger crop of MBAs at work, or whether we are newly divorced and looking for a new mate at the age of 45, and quite another to throw eye-daggers at another woman because she is prettier. Gosh, do people dislike themselves when they only have a Bachelor's degree and is this why they seek higher degrees? Are they jealous of those who have already earned them? No.

Edit - You brought up cosmetic surgery. Don't forget that 90% of women in this country will NOT have any. What does this say to you? :)

Edit 2 - The OP in this thread expressed envy over the way that other CDers look. We've seen these threads before (to Nacrarat, you aren't the first to have felt this way), and I don't know why this is. I think this is something particular to CDers. I'll take a wild guess (and this is only a guess) and suggest that the world of CDing is largely about looks and presentation or at least this is what it seems to an outsider like me (I'm not talking about transsexuals). It's not about a person's job, or their other hobbies, or the fun times they have with their kids, their wives, and their friends while engaged in non-presentation activities, it's about posting pictures of outfits and discussing ways to pass, to look more beautiful and to some CDers more sexy, and ways to get wives and society to accept a feminine presentation. So if this is all there is and if a person feels they are not attaining their ideal look, I suppose I can see why envy might come into play. It's sort of an all or nothing game. Whereas GGs who encounter other GGs who might have a more symmetrical face or a slimmer figure, have so much more than just their physical appearance as a part of who they are as women. We have our relationships, our friends, our kids, our work, our life passions, our hopes and dreams, plus we do function as women no matter what we look like, so looks are just a small facet of who we are, even if we wear makeup and some of us get Botox. But seeing models in a magazine is not enough to upset anything or to be envious about, not unless a GG sources the totality of her self-esteem from her looks and her looks alone. Few of us do that.

Now … if you want to talk about jealousy, I'll tell you what we DO get jealous about, and this is when another woman tries to take our man, or when our man starts chasing after another woman … even if she is NOT prettier or younger than us. lol. THEN you'll see us get jealous. But I do think that the majority of women in relationships feel secure in them, or at least this is the impression I get from the GGs I know, unless they are married to a skirt-chaser.

I hope that I haven't offended anyone. I'm trying to figure out why envy or jealousy is an issue for some CDers and why some CDers take it for granted that GGs feel the same way.

[Kate T]

If you were not a CDer … pretend for a moment that you only desire to live and present as a male at all times … would you be envious of males who are taller than you, stronger than you, have the Porshe and have for a girlfriend the hottest girl in town (or for that matter have a different woman on their arm every weekend)?

Ughh. Problem with that is that I despise that level of superficiality so much that I struggle to imagine it. It is so incredibly foreign to my internal sense of being that I struggle not to regard such a person as superficial (I know, my bad on being prejudiced).

Does it count that every so often I am a bit envious of Brad Pitt? :)


..... a CDer who suggested that women are envious of other women who are more beautiful than them. This is simply not true. It's one thing to wish for self-improvement for whatever reasons, whether we are socialized to seek the media ideal of feminine beauty, or whether we want to change the nose that we unfortunately inherited from Grandpa, or whether we want to maintain a competitive edge with the newer younger crop of MBAs at work, or whether we are newly divorced and looking for a new mate at the age of 45, and quite another to throw eye-daggers at another woman because she is prettier.

2 things.
1. I would argue that envy does not imply hatred or "throwing dagger eyes". One can still be envious yet admire someone for their achievements / looks etc.
2. I would argue that "self improvement" to achieve a media ideal of feminine beauty IS envy. It is socially generated envy.



Edit - You brought up cosmetic surgery. Don't forget that 90% of women in this country will NOT have any. What does this say to you? :)

It says 1 in 10 do! :tongueout

[ReineD]

Adina, I added an "Edit 2" on the other page after you posted this. I didn't know you had posted.

Envy, to me, is a negative emotion. I've been jealous of another woman once (long story but she was after my SO and my SO wanted to continue to see her without having me around … she was a GG friend that my SO could go out and have lunch with while dressed), and believe me, it is quite a different feeling than the type of self-improvement involved in going to the hairdressers to get my hair trimmed so it looks fuller, or deciding to put on eye shadow because I'm going to a Christmas party.

[TinaZ]

When it comes to remarking upon others' looks, my personal experience has been cross dressers tend to be more positive and supportive than GGs. Both groups are complimentary, but it's almost primarily women who add the teasing digs with their compliments.

I have a close group of friends I call Team Tina. They're about a dozen people - mostly women- who know about me. When I do a photo shoot with some new dresses, I'll share the pics here and with Team Tina members. Almost without fail, GGs will say something lovely, but with the remarks I referred to. For example - "That red dress is beautiful. I hate that you look more feminine than me." These are playful jabs, but overwhelmingly they come from women and not CDers. I have to believe there's something ingrained in girls about this. It happens too often to be coincidence.

Maybe women are more competitive about beauty than CDers? Or girls grow up learning to be competitive with their looks? I'm Not sure. But it's something.

[ReineD]

Tina, they're just being nice. GG's can also buy red dresses, if they want fuller busts they can buy enhancements, they can get makeovers, they can get high heels, etc, they can even wear corsets! (I have one and it makes one h*ll of a difference :)) If they choose to not do this it is because fundamentally it is not a priority for them.

Caveat … I'm saying this assuming that the GGs in question do not have negative body images. I don't know your friends, but I know several women who hate the fact that they are overweight. I think they look fabulous, but they don't and in this case the effort involved in losing the weight (if they compare themselves to someone who is not overweight) can be quite overwhelming and depressing. So what I say above does not apply to GGs who don't have a slim body but want one. So if this is the case and she says "I hate that you look more feminine than me", it might well translate to "I hate that I am overweight".

[Marcelle]

Hi Nacracat,

Personally I don't. I know what my limitations are when I am "en femme" and I have grown to accept them . . . much the same way I grew to accept I would never be a six foot hulking behemoth when I was growing up and would always be slightly shorter and smaller than the guys around me. I think we are our own worst enemies in judging our looks in that we have been staring a guy in the mirror our whole lives and when we try to see the woman it is difficult because we only know the guy. I asked my wife one time for an honest opinion and all she could proffer up was "you definitely have some finer features you would see on women but to be honest I have only know you as a guy and it is difficult to disentangle the two presentations"

Some CDers have won the genetic lottery in that they have finer features, smaller frames and less "male" tells than most. Some are young with nice smooth youthful skin. However, in the end they are still guys and nothing will change that and on close examination even the pretty ones get clocked. Pictures are only half the battle and as many here have said those can be posed, manipulated, altered to put your best foot forward. But it is a 2D representation and the missing part to the presentation picture is movement and voice.

So while I sometimes lament not doing this when I was younger, I don't feel envious of those who have youth on their side or those who won the genetic lottery. I prefer to look in the mirror and prepare to see a guy who is wearing make-up and wig and think . . . this is who I am and nothing can change this so I have to be happy with who I am.

Hugs

Isha

[Amanda M]

To a degree I am with Isha on this. My avatar here is me. Not photoshopped. Just me. It is a fair representation of how I look. It is very much wysiwig.

I have been going through a phase of self doubt and rigorous self analysis, and feel a bit sort of shaky with the results - but that does not affect my view of myself en femme! I am what I am. Do I get jealous - no. Can't say I do. I do get a biit sick of the mutual admiration that goes on - perhaps some people think that is a feminine trait andseek to emulate it.

I think it just boils down to something my wife said this morning - "Remember, you maybe just plain vanilla - but hey, that's a long way better than just plain!

[Katey888]

There's some interesting tangents here but please try and stick to the OP's simple points... Please members....? :)

Nacracat - it's been said here before me: this isn't a contest - unless you just want to get better at what you do, I think striving to find a different look; a look or hair colour that suits you better; a better pose or scene (if you're into your photos); better fashion sense (don't start me on leggings... :eek:) - and if browsing flickr gives you the inspiration to develop those little tweaks, or lose a few pounds to fit that LBD, then use it in a positive... :cheer:

If it doesn't - then don't beat yourself up, just stop looking... I personally just don't have the time or the inclination... :)

:hugs:

Katey x

[Claire Cook]

Fascinating discussion. Maybe one point is that we are, at least when we start out, very conscious of our presentation and our looks, so maybe it isn't unusual to think "Gee, I wish I looked that good" when we see a striking CD'er. But then reality sets in. Maybe the take home here is how we can do the best with what we've got. When you do see a CD'er who looks "really good", rather than being envious, we should ask ourselves what is it about her presentation that works for her.

And I would add another point from my experience. While I try my best to hide the beard and pad out what few curves I have, I think it's my comfort with myself, and maybe some femaleness that comes from within that "works" (if in fact it "works"...) when I am out and about. (Isha is right, even the most female-looking among us will be clocked sometime!) And these qualities don't necessarily come through in pictures. Let's not be jealous (and Reine has covered that in spades..) but let's live and learn!

[TinaZ]

Tina, they're just being nice. .

Yes, of course you're right. And I know this. It's just an interesting little difference I've noticed between women and CDs, that's all.

As for the OP, I've tried to adopt the mindset that we're all on the same team. Meaning, no matter the end result, we all have challenges in achieving a desired look, so the absolute best response is to cheer each other on. I'm as happy seeing a 100 percent passable CD on these pages, as I am seeing pictures from a CD who, well, doesn't pass at all. Both of them are putting in some time, effort and hope, and I cheer them both because I share with them the emotions they're going through in the process. That's what's most important to me.