Question from a GG

[Lisa9099]

I met a CD online (he only underdresses and wears slips/nightgowns, etc. to bed). We didn’t meet on a dating site – it wasn’t anything like that at all. We’ve grown very close recently, but have not met yet. I LOVE that he wears women’s panties – I actually think it’s quite sexy. We live in two different states. I’m single and he’s married (over 40 years (yikes!)). He also has three adult children. He’s in what I think is probably a “don’t ask, don’t tell” marriage. He has his own bedroom that he sleeps in and that’s where he keeps all of his items. He thinks there’s always a reason why someone comes into your life and we both aren’t sure yet what that reason could be… too soon to know for sure. I find myself falling quickly and I think he is quite smitten. He’s about 20 years my senior. He’s very generous and bought me a few presents and I’ve bought him some of his favorite panties in return. I told him he doesn’t need to buy me anything as I would stay his friend even if I received nothing from him (truly).

I feel very guilty about the fact that he’s married and I’m speaking with him. I know that it must be lonely to be in a DADT marriage and in a separate bedroom. I feel like my acceptance of him and really enjoying this side of him is so alluring to him.

My question – if you are in a DADT marriage and in your own bedroom and you fell in love with another women who accepted and enjoyed you the way you are, what would you do? This is assuming that you loved both women – which I believe is possible (to love two people).

I don’t know where this thing he and I have is going to go, but something tells me he’s craved acceptance from a woman for a VERY long time. I’m totally okay with him and the underdressing (am more than okay with it). On nearly every level in his life, he is a happy person and is very successful with great relationships with all of his family). The only issue would be the DADT part of his relationship/sleeping in separate bedrooms.

What’s a GG to do??? Like I said, this may not even go anywhere. He has a lot invested in his marriage. I don’t know if me being 20 years younger and loving the CD part of him might have him do something that he really would have never done.

Any thoughts??

[Jenniferathome]

... is very successful with great relationships with all of his family). The only issue would be the DADT part of his relationship/sleeping in separate bedrooms. ...

Don't forget the cheating on his wife (or the plan to cheat). If he's willing to have an affair with you, why would he not have an affair with someone else after he is with you? That is not a successful relationship. I can't imagine why you want to invest in married man.

[Lisa9099]

Technically, we are not cheating. We are just talking now, but I feel like feelings are starting to brew quickly. I don't think any other women has accepted him the way he is (meaning his wife). I am just unsure how I'm feeling about all of it. I wasn't going to post anything because I know he's married and I know it's wrong - I guess I just felt like I needed some other input and thought this site would provide that - even if it's not what I want to hear.

[AllieSF]

Lot's of thoughts. First, as most here will say, just think of this as falling in love/like or whatever with a married man who has hobbies. Is that OK for you? Is it OK for him? Is it OK for his wife? Is it OK for his children if he has has any? If he is interested in you as much as you are in him, then give him the task of getting his wife and family's approval for this extramarital relationship. Without that, you know all the stories and normal recommendations. His CDing is only a side note to the main issue here. He is married to someone else and not from what I can tell in any process of dissolving that relationship. Proceed at your and his risk and all the potential and maybe probable negative side affect to those around him. Good luck with your decision.

[Amy Lynn3]

Lisa, I would run as fast as I could from this situation. I know two lonely people confiding in one another ends in a bad way, especially a male and female, and one married. For him and his family, please, step away.

PS: We have plenty single cders on this site who would love to start a relationship with you.

[Lisa9099]

I'm getting the exact response that I thought I'd get - which is probably what I need to hear. I guess I felt like sleeping in separate bedrooms is not a happy marriage. I have been and can be just friends with a married man, so I will just cool my jets and play the friend...maybe that's all he needs and then he can figure out his marriage one way or the other. Thanks for your input!

[MissTee]

Hey Lisa. First, welcome to the forum. Glad to see you seeking answers before committing further to this relationship.

I have to say I am not a fan of relationships like the one you have brewing. Things can get very complicated very quickly, and a lot of people stand to be hurt. More to the point, you can probably do better. There are many CDs out there (even here) who are not already in a relationship and would love to meet someone as understanding as you seem to be. Indeed, GG's like you are highly sought after.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but I have this thing about devotion to family and honoring commitments to those I've invested my life in. Forty years is a long time to be in a relationship, and sneaking around on your family to satisfy your "needs" is quite cowardly. Again, you deserve better.

I'm sure you'll find a variety of opinions here and some may disagree with mine. That's okay by me, but please do be careful. There's a lot of heart ache lurking in your situation. Good luck, sweetie!

[nikki2014]

Lisa, hold your thoughts for a while until you get more replies. I've got so many thoughts in my head alone I don't even know how to respond yet. I could write a book for how you feel and how he feels as I've been on the end of both sides. Get some more replies and see how things turn up. If you still have more questions please feel free to message me anytime. I'll keep checking on the post as well. Good luck

[Jenniferathome]

Lisa, there are thousands of cross dressers in your state and/or city. We're everywhere.

He may be a nice guy and so are many others. There are nice, un-married guys in your town. Really. Invest in a future for you.

Best of luck to you

[Lisa9099]

I appreciate all of the comments. I sincerely do. He's actually a very devoted husband and father (his kids are well into their thirties). I'm not attracted to his CD'ng as much as I really appreciate and like the person he is, - I find the CD part of him pretty sexy. I don't think he expected us to mesh the way we do - so his intentions were not wrong. I think I might be too alluring for him in some ways. I'm going to rethink this quite a bit. I have a healthy libido, but I also have self-control, so I can be just friends with someone.

[Kate T]

Short answer

On the surface I think you are his ideal fantasy. A young beautiful woman who accepts his CDing. It's pretty much every cd's dream. Just make sure that that isn't all you are I.e. A fantasy that he is consciously of subconsciously using to make himself feel good.

[Lisa9099]

Thanks Adina, you hit on what I was wondering and stated it perfectly. He's a wonderful man - he truly is. I guess I wonder how really happy people in DADT marriages are - especially when they are in separate bedrooms. When he stated that he believes there's always a reason why someone enters your life, I thought to myself that my reason for being in his life may be that he realizes that he should/could be in a relationship where he feels comforted and loved for who he is - even if that person is not me.

He's a smart man and I am a relatively smart person, so I'm sure that we'll both do the right thing - which may be nothing at all. I think my point of posting was just to hear thoughts about marriages where your CD'ng has caused you to sleep in separate bedrooms and how meeting someone who you can have a different relationship with would make you feel.

I know everyone is saying there are other CD'ers out there, but I'm not in the market for a CD'er. He just happens to be one and I just happen to not mind in the least.

[Erica Marie]

This is how Ann Landers columns start. I can feel for both of you. You both started lonely and found a missing piece. A friendship is a wonderful thing, just please dont let it cross the line. He is walking on more thin ice than you are, even if he never meets you he is taking a chance on his family finding out. It could cause alot of turmoil for him. Please skip the crossdressing and have an honest chat with him, that family and a marital commitment comes first and that you two can always be friends.

[Lisa9099]

I have had the opportunity to cheat before and have not done it because i care enough about the person, and myself, to not allow it to happen. Im sure that i will make the right decision this time as well.

I guess the underlying part of why i chose to post is my curiozity about DADT marriages where your physical relationship is affected and how that makes you feel. I feel like maybe the husband stays in it sometimes because he believes that nobody ielse is going to accept him anyway.

[mykell]

hi lisa,
i commend your ability to take us for what we are, do know this...its a growing proposition as it may start with wearing panties which you state is "sexy" but it is insatiable to different degrees for us and where it stops no one really knows...so know this going in....but most importantly do consider going to a dating site and finding someone your own age and brave enough to list crossdressing in theyre profile....they are there if you look....it will be fair to the family you have a potential to disrupt....

[Laura28]

Technically it is cheating unless he has told his wife he talking on line with a woman 20 years younger, and sounds like he is talking about feelings. If it is nothing more then friendship why hasn't he introduced you to his wife?

[Lisa9099]

I think whats confusing to me now is why everyone seems to be suggesting i go to cross dressing dating site. He happens to be a cross dresser, but that is secondary to who he is as a human being. I wouldnt specifically look for a cross dresser, nor would i exclude one. I find at least the underdressing side of it sexy, but if someone didnt do that, it wouldnt matter to me. I dont have troble finding men, but my friendship with him has gotten interesting, for lack of a better word, and researching cross dressing led me to this forum. I posted about our friendship to hear thoughts about CD men in marriages where they might be sleeping in separate bedrooms, and their thoughts on how they would feel if they met someone wheere they can truly be themself.

Laura, we live in separate states. He is talking about feelings, that is true.

[DorothyElizabeth]

For the last five years of my second marriage, we slept in separate rooms. We agreed that we would not ask and not tell, but if either of us DID ask, we'd be honest. During that time, I had what I would call an emotional relationship with a married co-worker. She and I never acted on it, other than spending hours talking, and sharing our most intimate feelings. I always had pangs of guilt, but chose to ignore them, as did she. We talked about that, too. Ultimately, we went our separate ways, and neither of us was hurt, nor were our marriages, but we could have easily created a great deal of irreversible damage in our lives, had we not broken things off. I know that does not answer your question, but it is simply food for thought.

Also, I would add - about cheating - Anything that you feel you need to keep secret from you spouse or family (even if it just masturbating in the corner to some fantasy picture or porn) I believe constitutes cheating. I think that if there are guilt feelings associated, regardless of what the action is, it is probably cheating, on some level. Regardless of what kind of cheating someone is doing, someone always winds up getting hurt.

[Tracii G]

You seem fixated about him sleeping in another bed room but maybe he or his wife has their reasons for this.
Could be she has lost her sex drive and would rather sleep alone or maybe one of them snores really loudly and disturbs the other.
As marriages go on for many years the sexual aspect wanes and is not proof that they don't truly love each other, stepping in and disturbing the "nest" may not be a good idea for either of them let alone you.
I speak from experience because thats the way my last marriage was. She cheated on me and felt guilty that she did so she would not sleep in the same room with me.
Sex can be non existent in a marriage and it can work so best not to assume things.
You are very wise to come here for answers and opinions. BTW welcome we are happy you are here.

[AmandaM]

Geez, Lisa. Communication is something like 90% nonverbal. You only know what he is telling you. You don't know the real deal. Maybe, maybe after he moves out, and is serious about ending his marriage should you pursue this.

[Lisa9099]

There is no reason for me not to believe him . He has not uddered one bad word about his wife. He has not said anything disrespectful to me. He said in our last conversation that meeting me was is a "one in a million" chance which after reading this forum, i take to believe that its because i accept his CD'ng. Our friendship may die out in a week, or we may end up being lifelong friends. I honestly feel like most of you are very judgmental and that surprises me. He may learn from our friendship that he truly loves his wife , or he may learn the opposite. I guess time will tell.

[AmandaM]

We're not judgemental. We've just seen things like this before. We just want you to be careful. Like Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify".

[lingerieLiz]

Why not find a single CD your age range. There are several.

[DorothyElizabeth]

"I honestly feel like most of you are very judgmental and that surprises me."

I hope that my post did not seem to be judgmental. If it came off that way, please accept my apology. I think you were wise to posit this question, if for no other reason than to receive opinions from a wide variety of people. That said though, I suspect you already know what course of action you should follow. Mostly what you have to do is figure out what you have decided to do. I don't know about you, but I often find it more difficult to be honest with myself than anything else.

[Lisa9099]

Understood AmandaM, and believe me, I verified everything. In all honesty, if our friendhip ended tomorrow, i think that my (or any GG's) acceptance of him, woukd make him die a happy man. I think he craved a GG telling him that theres nothing wrong with it and it's pretty sexy, to boot. And if its wrong for our friendship to have provided that to him after 40 years of having to hide it and feel bad, i will gladly accept that i did a bad thing and go on in my life.

This is where I am feeling judged. I am 52 and he is 72. Is that such a horrible age difference?

[Zylia]

Lisa, just to put a few things in perspective: you're asking a bunch of middle-aged, somewhat conservative men for dating advice here. Just because a lot of us have a rather eccentric 'hobby' doesn't make us any more or less capable to answer your questions. I reckon that most of us have no meaningful experience, except as the cross-dressing husband in a (unhappy) relationship. In general, whenever someone on the internet gives you some advice, you might want to keep in mind that they usually have no stake in the outcome.

Some here seem to argue that the continuation of a marriage is more important than the personal happiness of one of the partners. This is a moral or even a religious discussion I'm not going to deal with. I just want to say that all is relative.

Your friend has the right to make his own choices (or mistakes). Your friend's wife has the right to know if he's not happy in his relationship. You all deserve your own happiness. You like him for who he is which is wonderful; make sure he likes you for who you are, not for what you enable.

[Kate T]

I don't think most here are deliberately judging you. Frankly they are probably judging your friend more than you. But I can see how it feels that way. As for the CD dating site thing, I don't get that.

You want to know if DADT has an emotional effect on the CD. I don't know as I am in a long term relationship (married 18 years) with an amazingly supportive wife. However from what I have read yes I think it can be emotionally damaging for the CD. I think it can be emotionally damaging for the SO as well. Am I surprised that he has reached out to someone for emotional support. No. Frankly, and please take no offence at this, but given his age I doubt that it is deliberately manipulative on his part. I suspect he is genuinely just looking for emotional comfort. Are you happy to give that to him? Up to you. I have always stated on these forums my strong opposition to DADT relationships and your experience here with this person is one of the classic examples of why I believe them to be undesirable in a majority of situations.

Just make sure you don't get hurt and that you don't hurt someone else.

[AllieSF]

Well said Zylia.

Lisa,

It is always interesting how additional information clarifies the situation to the point of changing some peoples mind, like mine. We can only write so much and yet, sometimes that is still not enough to accurately explain a complicated situation. Your further posts helped me a lot. It is nice that you are there as support for him and I think whatever happens was meant to happen. Good luck.

[Michelle (Oz)]

This is where I am feeling judged. I am 52 and he is 72. Is that such a horrible age difference?

Lisa, I admire you for seeking comments from those like us who are not emotionally involved and yet understand the CDing bit. I wish I had done so 16 years ago.

In sharing something with you about my second marriage I need to stress that I didn't cheat on my first wife. She and I had separated after 26 years of marriage and 2 children. The romance had died some time before and the children had left home - maybe the empty nest syndrome. I think that cheating would simply further increase the baggage.

The difference in ages with my second wife was 17 years. Although it was quickly obvious that our relationship was a mistake, we hung on for 10 years with younger children involved. The main factors in our relationship ending had much to do with the age difference. In the latter years we had very different perspectives on life, work, money, children and responsibilities. Yes he will want to give you gifts because he thinks that will make you happy (I wish my ex wasn't so greedy) and encourage your friendship. It is how older men hope to encourage friendships with younger women. With a wife and children his financial position will come under pressure.

I'm not judging you and age might not be a barrier. However, the odds (and life expectancy tables) are very much against you even leaving aside the CDing piece. In 10 years you will be a sprightly 62; he will be 82. Listen to your head and not your heart.

Michelle xx

[PaulaQ]

Hon, I would advise you to drop this man.

I was once involved in something like this, I ignored a good friend's advice, and I really regretted it later.

1. You don't know this man. Not really - and all the stuff you DON'T know, your mind is almost certainly filling in with what it wants to be true.
2. Men will lie for sex. They'll tell really outrageous lies.
3. I'm sympathetic about a DADT relationship - I am. But the fact he'll mess around online, rather than deal with his real life relationship should be a big red flag to you.

Honey, if he'll cheat with you, how do you expect him to be when YOU are his SO?

Lisa, how do you even know it's DADT, separate bedrooms, and a rocky marriage? I was told much the same, and it wasn't true. Finding out about that was emotionally devastating to me.

Just be careful, and don't get hurt.

[Stephanie47]

I read through your Q&A. You're an adult fully capable of making your decision. He's an adult fully capable of making his decision. From your description of his life, he seems to have it all except he's in a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" relationship. I suspect if he is sleeping in a nightie his wife is aware of his cross dressing, and, they have reached an accommodation agreeable to both. Maybe his adult kids are aware of the arrangement. Is he ready to potentially throw away his established life? If he under dresses and sleeps in nighties, I think his cross dressing is rather tame. You raise the issue of age differences and his somewhat waning years- 72 vs 52. He and his wife have grown older together. Their relationship, which may seem abnormal and lacking to you, may have been negotiated over forty plus years and based on mutual respect and love. Of course, he is probably smitten because he now has a "pen pal" who would seem to be more accepting of his cross dressing.

I'm in a DADT marriage of over forty years. I have adult children and I have a grandchild. I have no debt. Our home is owned free and clear. My pension income exceeds the wages of my wife three fold. We do what we want, when we want. Would I like it if my wife wanted me to be Stephanie for her? Would I like it if I made our evening meal attired in a dress, heels, hosiery, wig and makeup? I don't know. If a woman came along and made me that offer I would not accept it. My marriage is based on a heck of a lot more than any one aspect of life.

You really do not know anything about this man. I guess you can pay a couple of dollars and have a back ground check done. It'll give you just about everything there may be out there on him, except for who he really is. You only have his words as pounded out on a keyboard. I would be careful.

As to separate sleeping arrangements..there may be nothing to it other than snoring keeps both of them awake. I have it on good authority from my kids and grandchild that both of us snore. And, it is really loud. Also, we both have significant nerve damage that makes each of us toss and turn and groan through the pain. Many times we sleep separately. Funny thing! When we sleep apart we both arise more refreshed for the day ahead of us..together.

Personally, my love for my wife transcends whether or not I can sleep in a nightie. No way would I give up my kids and grandchild(ren) and home so I could have a woman who may find me sexy at 72 sitting around in a nightie or fully en femme.

You ask what would I do? If I had any sense and if I was not senile I would break it off.

[Shelly Preston]

Lisa, I think the fact you have become friends is lovely.

You have been given a lot of good advice so far and I hope it helps

I am sure he is delighted with your support.

There are too many issues involved to know exactly what is going on.

I would suggest you don't take this any further as I can't see it having a good outcome.

[Marcelle]

Hi Stephanie,

I can only echo what Zylia said, which was aptly put. We (CDers) tend to get preoccupied with thinking everything we do is dishonest because we choose to dress like a woman from time to time . . . "Not telling your wife you dress . . . dishonest" . . . "Having an online emotionally supportive conversation with another woman . . . dishonest". IMHO we all make decisions good or bad which have nothing to do with cross dressing. Will this man ever leave his wife for you? I can't answer that question because I don't know his whole story. It is likely he has found a person who he can discuss a very important part of his life with and there may be nothing there beyond emotional support but then again that is what friendships are for. It is possible you have become a sounding board he uses for an emotional outlet he cannot avail himself at home.

I have to admit I am a bit saddened by all the "cheating" rhetoric as you have never indicated that it has gone that far and are just having an online discussion. If you had been a guy, most here would have seen you as a great and supportive person helping out a fellow person through a difficult time. If you were to pursue a romantic relationship with the person . . . well that is a decision you would both make as adults and I won't comment of moral issues as I am in no position to judge. Sometimes what the heart wants the heart must have and if it was meant to be, it will be.

All this to say, I believe you have a bit of a conundrum on your part. There is nothing wrong with nurturing a friendship (heck I have plenty of GG friends and nobody accuses me of cheating on my wife). However, if the relationship grows beyond the confines of friendship, then you will both have to do some soul searching.

Hugs

Isha

[Claire Cook]

Lisa,

I think these are potentially deep waters. It sounds as though you are filling a niche that his wife can't fill, and when a GG fills that CD support niche, that can be a potent elixir for a CD'er. Like Isha, I'm married to a supportive wife and I have GG friends -- but we're girl friends, and whatever intimacies we share are the kinds women talk about. Certainly no sexual involvement.

[kimdl93]

You've heard various forms of the same thing. What can I add? You're relatively young, but don't waste your precious time with a married man, no matter how he portrays his situation.

[CDPheobe]

Hi lisa. Yeah its all fine and we'll chatting, but reality comes along and it does not seem right. Separate room, long distance relationship, married, lives in same home as wife, etc. To me, all bad. There's plenty of CDERS all over where you live. Take a physical look around. This online relationship stands a high chance of not working out.

[Linda Leigh]

Lisa, I agree you should not get involved with a married man, as other have said there so many single men out there that are CD'ers or not that want a relationship :) Please be careful with this.

Hugs

Linda Leigh

[Lynn Marie]

I've been the "married man" in a similar situation as the one you are going through. Also, "technically", I wasn't cheating either but actually I very much was. It was the emotional attachment that I was seeking and found! I'm sure as hell not proud of what I did, but it was instrumental in helping me get the courage to pursue a divorce from a woman that I didn't even like any more. Trust me, DADT is the foundation of a mighty big wall between people.

The really good part? For me, I'm happier and more content than I've ever been in my life. My ex doesn't talk to me but has gotten back into the real world and is doing well. BTW, I'm 71 and my best gg girlfriend is gorgeous and 44 and loves me in "hunky boy" mode as well as Lynn Marie. Oh yeah, she's not the lady who helped me find my courage 8 years ago.

[Lisa9099]

To clear up any confusion:

He bought some items from me online via a shopping venue. He was not online looking to date and neither was I (nor has either of us stated that it is our intention). He e-mailed me about his purchase and told me that he was a married man and had grown children, etc. I think he probably has some underlying issues with how people may perceive him and he wanted me to know that he was a straight man.

I was a bit intrigued and asked further questions (for how long, does your wife know, etc.). He said he’s more than obliged to answer any questions that I have. I called him as I thought it was best for us both to know who we are talking to and for him to know that I am a woman and for me to know that he was who he stated he was.

That being said, we had a nice conversation and we’ve been conversing quite regularly. He has never said anything bad about his wife, he has a great life and is extremely successful (owns his own business which grosses quite a few million). Google and FB are wonderful for verifying information. There hasn’t been one word that he has stated that has been false. I have no reason to disbelieve anything that he’s stated. If he wanted to cheat on his wife, he has all the financial means to do it - which is why I stated what his company grosses.

As we’ve been conversing, I can see him being very drawn to me very quickly - which I believe has to do with me accepting his CD’ng. I think he’s been craving a woman’s acceptance of it for years. That is, at least, what I make of it. I would be lying if I didn’t say that I was drawn to him - he’s led a pretty amazing life and is pretty awesome on many levels.

He’s given me a few gifts which I’ve told him that he doesn’t need to do that at all. I don’t want him to question why I am his friend.

I came to this Site a week or so ago trying to learn more about him. What happens because of our friendship remains to be seen. Life is interesting. He and I are both intelligent adults and although the forbidden fruit is dangling in our face right now, there’s no indication that either of us will bite. I am not one to make rash decisions and I don’t believe that he does either. If I did make rash decisions, I certainly wouldn’t be on this site trying to glean some insight from strangers, I’d be on my way to him.

I think what saddens me about his situation is the desperation for acceptance that I hear in him. The CD’s that are happily married with supportive wives may not fully understand as you haven’t been in that situation. I think (and I may be wrong) that there are wives who make their husbands feel like they are doing them a great favor by just staying married to them, and I don’t know if that’s necessarily the case.

In all likelihood my friendship with him will remain a friendship. If his wife doesn’t want him to have a friendship with another woman, that is something that he and her need to come to terms with…maybe in his mind, he’s lumping me into the DADT part of his marriage…and that is probably the danger of having a marriage where DADT is how you live.

Thanks again for all of the interesting insight on my situation. It’s greatly appreciated.

[Alice Torn]

It aint right , nor wise. I'm a 60 yo never married Cder, and have not met a lady yet that accepts it. Many other single Cdrs, too. Picking a married, will not end well, and i don't want to see you, and your interest, on the CHEATERS tv show, where it ends in a big brawl. Cheating does not have to be sexual. It can be emotional, big time. Cheating his wife emotionally, robbing from her, and getting his needs met emotionally by you. Sorry, I am only wanting good for you. What would Dr. Laura say? Or Roy Masters? Or Joy Browne? Call one.

[DonnaT]

I've not read the whole thread, so apologies if I repeat another's response.

They could be sleeping in separate beds, bedrooms, for reasons other than his CDing, such as loud snoring, restless sleep, etc.

My paternal grandparents slept apart because my granddad would thrash about in his sleep. No one likes being awakened by a slap in the face.

[Jill Devine]

I
I think whats confusing to me now is why everyone seems to be suggesting i go to cross dressing dating site. He happens to be a cross dresser, but that is secondary to who he is as a human being. I wouldnt specifically look for a cross dresser, nor would i exclude one. I find at least the underdressing side of it sexy, but if someone didnt do that, it wouldnt matter to me. I dont have troble finding men, but my friendship with him has gotten interesting, for lack of a better word, and researching cross dressing led me to this forum. I posted about our friendship to hear thoughts about CD men in marriages where they might be sleeping in separate bedrooms, and their thoughts on how they would feel if they met someone wheere they can truly be themself.

Laura, we live in separate states. He is talking about feelings, that is true.
So let's take the CD'ing out of the equation. Les totally remove it. The Question then is should you take this friendship with a married man to the next level. My short answer is no. Walk away. Don't make his problems yours. This world has enough stress, strain and problems. Please don't add another persons problem to yours. Move on.

I know my advice sounds cold and cruel. But you are not in a good position to help him because it sounds like feelings are developing. Your decisions now will DRASTICALLY impact 2015 for many people. Do the right thing and walk away while you still can and before anyone gets hurt (including him).

[flatlander_48]

I guess I felt like sleeping in separate bedrooms is not a happy marriage.

I chuckled a bit when I saw that. For the last few years of my marriage with my 1st wife, we slept on Different Floors! in the house!!

[Lisa9099]

Flatlander, it is on separate floors too!

The lack of empathy for him from other CD's astounds me. Other than talk to me, he hasn't done anything wrong. I stand by my comment, this is a very judgmental group. He and I talk only. I think feelings are progressing, and what he learns from that, time will tell. I am not a man and thus, I think I have maybe a little more self-control than I am given credit for. I won't let him cheat with me, but as far as being friends, I think that is on his end and something he and his wife need to work out. I actually am feeling that most on here, except for a minor few, are ready to stone the both of us.

[Lorileah]

My question – if you are in a DADT marriage and in your own bedroom and you fell in love with another women who accepted and enjoyed you the way you are, what would you do? This is assuming that you loved both women – which I believe is possible (to love two people).



Your morals are your own and how you feel about this is between you and the CD. You can make the call. I do believe you can love more than one person, but there is more here that bothers me. He is telling you all this and that, to me indicates, he is either in a bad marriage (and you can get hurt then too) or he is playing you a bit for sympathy. I fear you are too deep already and this is going to burn you. Just my feelings mind you but based on years of experience. I worry, a lot, about men who sneak to the internet to talk to women (or other men as the case may be) and get you emotionally involved with something you cannot control.

I would tread carefully here. Someone is going to get hurt. Make sure it isn't you

[kimdl93]

Judgemental, perhaps, but I suspect that most of what you're hearing from us is the voice of experience. For most of us, we've been through at least a couple of rodeos and dealt with real, on line, and in some cases dubious relations in both venues. You'll make your own choices, as is your right. But nothing you have described is a basis for confidence.

[Lisa9099]

Your morals are your own and how you feel about this is between you and the CD. You can make the call. I do believe you can love more than one person, but there is more here that bothers me. He is telling you all this and that, to me indicates, he is either in a bad marriage (and you can get hurt then too) or he is playing you a bit for sympathy. I fear you are too deep already and this is going to burn you. Just my feelings mind you but based on years of experience. I worry, a lot, about men who sneak to the internet to talk to women (or other men as the case may be) and get you emotionally involved with something you cannot control.

I would tread carefully here. Someone is going to get hurt. Make sure it isn't you

I appreciate your response. With all due respect, he wasn't trying to meet me. I asked him questions and he was just being nice answering them. He bought some items from me online. The way he was talking the other night made me realize that I can hurt him. I felt like my acceptance of him was something he needed. It made me feel sad for him. It made me wonder if the GG wives have the husbands believing that nobody else will want them, and that just isn't always the case (imho).

[ReineD]

I feel very guilty about the fact that he’s married and I’m speaking with him. I know that it must be lonely to be in a DADT marriage and in a separate bedroom. I feel like my acceptance of him and really enjoying this side of him is so alluring to him.

…

I don’t know where this thing he and I have is going to go, but something tells me he’s craved acceptance from a woman for a VERY long time.

Yes, he has. I can't tell you how many CDers here have posted that they craved nothing more than to have a GG friend to do girly things with. This makes them feel in the "GG fold" so to speak, as one of us, it's all part of the fantasy. So be smart and just keep it friendly. Do not allow yourself to escalate to romantic feelings, you'll only end up broken hearted in the end. If you cannot in all honesty do this, then walk away. If you are falling for him, you don't want to tell yourself that you're not and that your friendship is just a fun, casual thing to engage in.

[Alice Torn]

Lisa, As a single cder, who has not had a close girfriend for 27 years, and my first one committed suicide in 1982, I know what it is to be utterly starved for a woman's friendship! i had my own window washing business for 26 yrs too, and met hundreds of married ladies, some of which were very friendly, and very attractive, and if they were not married, i would definitely have asked them out. But, i bit the bullet, and respected their marriages, and never touched one. I at 60, am hoping against the odds, that a special lady will come into my life, but no seeking much any more, as i am low income. Sometimes, we have to realize, that the right one for us, is aleady married, and we must move on, respecting their mates. I know , it is so difficult, when our social needs, for friendship and closeness seem like they will never be met. Learning to walk alone is good, though lonely at times. Sometimes best. Life is not fair. I hope you find other friends. Thanks for hearing me out.

[PaulaQ]

Yes, he has. I can't tell you how many CDers here have posted that they craved nothing more than to have a GG friend to do girly things with. This makes them feel in the "GG fold" so to speak, as one of us, it's all part of the fantasy. So be smart and just keep it friendly.

I'm sorry, but I have to take exception to this part of your statement. This is NOT a fantasy, what they are feeling. It's part and parcel of gender dysphoria. Pretty much *all* of the trans people I know want acceptance of others of their gender.

So sure, for a CDer, they may still be male identified. But their feelings are very real.

Despite that, I agree with you, and Lisa can do way better than the guy she's flirting with online.

[Lisa9099]

I'm sorry, but I have to take exception to this part of your statement. This is NOT a fantasy, what they are feeling. It's part and parcel of gender dysphoria. Pretty much *all* of the trans people I know want acceptance of others of their gender.

So sure, for a CDer, they may still be male identified. But their feelings are very real.

Despite that, I agree with you, and Lisa can do way better than the guy she's flirting with online.

I appreciate your response, but stating that I can do "way better" is implying that he's a bad person. He's far from that and let me stress again, we talk. Maybe after talking to me, he'll realize that he wants nothing more than to stay with his wife. Maybe he has no intention of ever cheating.

[suzanne]

I'm not that different from your friend. I am in my fifties, married over thirty years to a mostly unsupportive woman. Only recently, she has slowly come to understand that my femme side is an inextricable part of me and has decided to commit to full acceptance. Before that, we still shared a bed, but I felt completely isolated. It was a lonely time indeed. What got me through that time was the ladies in the store where I bought my dresses, skirts, etc. Firstly, they gave first rate fashion advice, telling me immediately whether the outfit worked on me or not. I, of course, obliged them by trying on everything they showed me and buying a lot of clothes from them. But it was FUN! I always come in wearing a gorgeous outfit and a big, big smile, because for me, it feels like a two hour furlough from prison. We laugh, chat and hug like sisters and I feel normal for that brief time. That's the main thing. Like your friend, I have someone who treats me like a normal, healthy friend, not a freak. I don't know whether your friend wants more from you than that, but I feel pretty sure that the relationship you have now is critical to his emotional well being.

[PaulaQ]

I'm not saying he's a bad person. Just suggesting that someone who is:
1. Local to you
2. Available to you - i.e. not in another relationship
3. Not the type of person who, apparently, sneaks around behind his wife's back
4. Able to meet you in person, let you know them fully and directly and openly
is liable to be a much better person for you. Your guy may be fine, and just in a really unfortunate marriage. Believe me, they happen, but that still doesn't make him right for you.

The guy who played this game with me was a creep, and when I discovered what was really going on, I considered, for a couple of minutes, jumping off the Singleton Ave. bridge here in Dallas. It would've been a really pretty place to die. Fortunately, I calmed down, sought out friends, and came to realize that I'd been victimized.

I have no idea whether or not your guy is like the one who preyed on me. (Believe me, he knew exactly what to say to push my buttons.) My only point is you don't have any idea, really, whether or not he's like that because you haven't met him.

I made all the same arguments you are making. Every one of them. And once I found out the truth, I hated myself for a while.

I just don't want to see you get hurt, hon. Look, I know there are many CDers in miserable DADT relationships that they are unwilling to end for whatever reason. That he hasn't done that should be a giant red flag to you. I'm not trying to be judgmental. I don't know this guy from Adam, and I don't really care if people play around on their spouses - that's their business. But I am saying that he doesn't seem to be acting very ethically here, and since you stand to be the one to be hurt in all of this, you should worry.

If he isn't comfortable talking to his wife about your relationship with him, you probably aren't "just a friend" and this isn't exactly ethical. (Not to excuse his wife's behavior - it may very well be just awful. However, if its so bad, why doesn't he leave?)

He may be a really good person, just in an awful situation. But this almost certainly isn't the right way to handle that, and it still doesn't make it a good idea for you to be involved in it. Your chance for heartache is just really big here, in my view.

BTW, have you considered what would happen if he leaves his wife for you, rushes over to meet you, and you discover, in person, there is just zero chemistry. In fact, you really don't get along that well, and the relatioship isn't going to work well for you - you just don't want it. You could end up feeling awful because 'he left her for you", but you find you just don't want him after all.

There are a ton of ways for this to go wrong, and only a couple of happy endings. Be wary.

[Lisa9099]

I don't know whether your friend wants more from you than that, but I feel pretty sure that the relationship you have now is critical to his emotional well being.

Thank you, truly, and that's great about your wife now accepting you now.

[ReineD]

On the surface I think you are his ideal fantasy. A young beautiful woman who accepts his CDing. It's pretty much every cd's dream. Just make sure that that isn't all you are I.e. A fantasy that he is consciously of subconsciously using to make himself feel good.

Lisa, this is the danger, that he might not be considering your feelings and is instead just having fun. Is he aware of the possibility of growing romantic feelings on your part?


I appreciate your response, but stating that I can do "way better" is implying that he's a bad person. He's far from that and let me stress again, we talk.

Lisa, he is not a bad person, just a CDer who enjoys sharing this with GGs. Do you think that you can keep it to friendship without having it escalate in your heart? That's the question, that you might end up being hurt.

[flatlander_48]

Flatlander, it is on separate floors too!

The lack of empathy for him from other CD's astounds me. Other than talk to me, he hasn't done anything wrong. I stand by my comment, this is a very judgmental group. He and I talk only. I think feelings are progressing, and what he learns from that, time will tell. I am not a man and thus, I think I have maybe a little more self-control than I am given credit for. I won't let him cheat with me, but as far as being friends, I think that is on his end and something he and his wife need to work out. I actually am feeling that most on here, except for a minor few, are ready to stone the both of us.

I would hesitate to say judgmental. I may come out that way, but I think people have a lot of genuine concern for your situation and don't see it turning out well. Life is complicated and on occasion we do things that add to that complication. But, sometimes we take on things for a good reason and sometimes our logic is skewed. But, it is the sort of thing that each of us has to figure out for ourselves.

All that said, I think it would be instructive to hear what your thoughts are after you have had a chance to sort through and digest the possibilities.


BTW, have you considered what would happen if he leaves his wife for you, rushes over to meet you, and you discover, in person, there is just zero chemistry.

To take this from abstraction to reality, I know of a situation where this happened. The husband of a close friend of my 1st wife had a long distance affair with another woman. Unbeknownst to her, he decided to leave his wife, drive 2 states over and present himself on the doorstep of The Other Woman. I gather she was quite surprised and was specifically NOT looking for a live-in partner. So, he was forced to return home and get his wife to take him back. Ultimately, she did.

Anyway, sometimes hypothetical situations may be discussed but often they can have real basis in fact.

All the best,

DeeAnn

[Lisa9099]

Actually, I think we are both well aware that feelings can grow on both of our ends. This is life though, isn’t it? It’s not static. There’s an ebb and a flow and roads that we should take or shouldn’t take, and paths that we should or shouldn’t cross. There are good and bad decisions and consequences for all of them. We both believe that people are placed in your life for a reason and neither one of us is sure of what that reason is right now. The reason may be something that makes him closer to his wife in the long run – and that would be a great thing for him. I am someone who, if I care for someone, I truly do want them to be happy – even without me. The reason for our friendship may be that he’s teaching me about acceptance of other people. There could be a myriad of reasons why we became friends. He can be just a perverted, old cross-dresser looking to have sex with any woman that will have him. I didn’t think that way, but it seems that most of you do. I believe some of you may help in the perpetuation of stereo-types of CD’ers. He was not seeking a woman online, I asked him questions and he was being kind of enough to answer. Then when we started talking, we kind of have a connection – so to speak – and I’m not sure where it will lead or if it will lead us anywhere at all. We may be friends for the rest of our lives and I hope that is the case. We also may just run out of things to talk about and go our own way, and that is fine too. It’s just very surprising and disappointing to me that many think he’s a dirty old man looking for a little something on the side. It’s very sad because I see a wonderful man, who really just wants a woman to accept him for who he is – even if it’s only via friendship. Could we get hurt? Yes. Should I run from every life even where I could get hurt? I don’t think so. It’s not the way that I want to live.

[flatlander_48]

Agreed. This situation may have presented itself solely as a means to get one or both of you to think about what the situation may or may not do. Or, it could be a test; it could be reinforcement of the current thinking. Who knows? But now since it is sitting in the middle of the road, what is the next step? Through it? Around it? Or just turn around and retreat? A decision, any decision, represents the result of hopefully our best thinking (and yes, I realize that doesn't always happen), but also it should tell us something about ourselves...

[ReineD]

He can be just a perverted, old cross-dresser looking to have sex with any woman that will have him. I didn’t think that way, but it seems that most of you do.

Actually, no. Judging by the many posts I have read about this, the desire is to be one of the girls. It's about experiencing female bonding more than just having sex. Yes, it is sexual for some CDers (mostly younger ones) and they love bringing it in the bedroom, but I can't tell you how many posts I've read from members who want a GG friend to talk clothes, makeup, etc with. A fun thing to do between married couples is to share mani-pedis, go shopping for clothes, take pictures of outfits, etc, not just have a romp in bed. A lot of CDs also want the GGs to teach them how to be feminine (give them tips on clothing, makeup, etc), although if your friend is 72 and has been doing this for awhile, this may no longer be necessary.

If you stick around you'll read many posts from members who say they much prefer hanging out with the women at parties more than the men because they find the topics that women discuss more interesting, although I'm not quite sure what the difference might be. When my SO and I get together with friends everyone just ends up talking together about common interests. So I think it's more about wanting to bond with a GG in the same way they believe that GGs bond together.

[Lisa9099]

Actually, no. Judging by the many posts I have read about this, the desire is to be one of the girls. It's about experiencing female bonding more than just having sex.


I don't believe his desire is to be "one of the girls". I think it's to have a normal relationship and have acceptance with "one of the girls".

[AllieSF]

Actually, I think we are both well aware that feelings can grow on both of our ends. This is life though, isn’t it? It’s not static. There’s an ebb and a flow and roads that we should take or shouldn’t take, and paths that we should or shouldn’t cross. There are good and bad decisions and consequences for all of them. We both believe that people are placed in your life for a reason and neither one of us is sure of what that reason is right now. The reason may be something that makes him closer to his wife in the long run – and that would be a great thing for him. I am someone who, if I care for someone, I truly do want them to be happy – even without me. The reason for our friendship may be that he’s teaching me about acceptance of other people. There could be a myriad of reasons why we became friends. He can be just a perverted, old cross-dresser looking to have sex with any woman that will have him. I didn’t think that way, but it seems that most of you do. I believe some of you may help in the perpetuation of stereo-types of CD’ers. He was not seeking a woman online, I asked him questions and he was being kind of enough to answer. Then when we started talking, we kind of have a connection – so to speak – and I’m not sure where it will lead or if it will lead us anywhere at all. We may be friends for the rest of our lives and I hope that is the case. We also may just run out of things to talk about and go our own way, and that is fine too. It’s just very surprising and disappointing to me that many think he’s a dirty old man looking for a little something on the side. It’s very sad because I see a wonderful man, who really just wants a woman to accept him for who he is – even if it’s only via friendship. Could we get hurt? Yes. Should I run from every life even where I could get hurt? I don’t think so. It’s not the way that I want to live.

Yes, about what you wrote here. I call some of that my personal spiritualism, especially the bolded/highlighted part above. It has been so true to me all through my life and it took starting all this TG/CD stuff 8 years ago to be able to put words around it. I also second what sometimes_miss wrote. From reading what you wrote here, I actually think that you have a much better handle on your situation than many that have posted here. You are a rare breed here as many have said, a GG who likes and accepts a CD. For that, you are also special to many of us and we only want the best for you, thus all the admonitions and the reversion to the "old cross-dresser stereotypes" in some posts. Just as there is a broad spectrum of people with opinions, prejudices, biases and everything else good and bad out there in the real world, we have about that same mix here too. We want the freedom to be who we are, but then require others here to be how we think they should be. That is equal rights? I respect you for sticking around and maturely discussing your issues. None of us is perfect. I wish you the best and please do try to stay around here long enough to learn more, contribute more and to help us learn from your experiences and point of view.

[ReineD]

I don't believe his desire is to be "one of the girls". I think it's to have a normal relationship and have acceptance with "one of the girls".

Of course. You know him better than I do. I was just describing something that is common to many members in this forum.

[Lisa9099]

And, I have to add, the vast majority of us here would also treat you like a queen if we met you. CD accepting women are THAT rare. I'm talking one in a million literally.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. He used your words exactly, he said meeting me is a "one in a million" opportunity. I guess this explains his generosity with me. I am glad that you wrote because I'm just trying to understand his mindset and where he's coming from and your response helped.

[AmandaM]

Oh Lisa, we don't want to stone you. We don't want you or him to fall into an emotional affair. It would be a betrayal to his wife to have him become emotionally attached to another woman, no matter how innocent your intentions.

[PaulaQ]

There could be a myriad of reasons why we became friends. He can be just a perverted, old cross-dresser looking to have sex with any woman that will have him. I didn’t think that way, but it seems that most of you do. I believe some of you may help in the perpetuation of stereo-types of CD’ers. He was not seeking a woman online, I asked him questions and he was being kind of enough to answer. Then when we started talking, we kind of have a connection – so to speak – and I’m not sure where it will lead or if it will lead us anywhere at all. We may be friends for the rest of our lives and I hope that is the case. We also may just run out of things to talk about and go our own way, and that is fine too. It’s just very surprising and disappointing to me that many think he’s a dirty old man looking for a little something on the side. It’s very sad because I see a wonderful man, who really just wants a woman to accept him for who he is – even if it’s only via friendship. Could we get hurt? Yes.

I don't think anyone is saying that for sure about him, and even if we were, that has nothing to do whatsoever with him being a CD and everything to do with him being male. Some men - really a surprising number of them, will lie for a relationship, especially one that could become sexual. Even if that isn't his intent at all, and it really may not be, there is a good chance his wife would be unhappy with his emotional intimacy with you, and might view that as more threatening than just a sexual encounter.

But let's go back to your first post:



I feel very guilty about the fact that he’s married and I’m speaking with him. I know that it must be lonely to be in a DADT marriage and in a separate bedroom. I feel like my acceptance of him and really enjoying this side of him is so alluring to him.

My question – if you are in a DADT marriage and in your own bedroom and you fell in love with another women who accepted and enjoyed you the way you are, what would you do? This is assuming that you loved both women – which I believe is possible (to love two people).

So you obviously feel guilty about this - says so right there. Yet you ask what people think - hoping to rationalize this because he's in an unhappy marriage with a spouse who doesn't accept him. Let's review the red flags here shall we:
1. You feel guilty about this - hon, go with your gut. Red flag.
2. Oh hell, you are gonna ignore your gut feeling - stupid old instincts and conscience, what does it know? Red flag.
3. You've never met him, but it's really obvious you have feelings for him - see mention of love above in your OP. Love him? You don't even know him. Red flag.
4. He tells you he's miserable and misunderstood - but he doesn't leave. Hey, this could very well be true, its common around here. Unfortunately just about every philanderer on earth makes this same claim. Again, it'd be one thing if you knew him, and could say "yeah, wow, what a horrible marriage," but you don't even really know that. Red flag
5. Even if, as is likely, he really is just a very lonely man in an awful relationship, that doesn't make it right for him to develop an intimate friendship with a woman about whom he is not talking about with his wife. (Hello - vows and stuff?) Red flag.
6. When you ask a group of disinterested strangers who have some reason to be biased in his favor, and they tell you "be careful," you get kind of defensive about it - you don't seem to be looking for advice as much as validation for what you've already decided to do. Big red flag.

So let's just break this down - you are going into this blind, you've never met him, and against your own better judgment. You are already dreaming about love, and you are looking for a rarionalization for something you are going to do regardless.

Can you honestly tell me, "Yeah Paula, this is an awesome idea! No WAY anything could go wrong! I mean who lies about themselves or their situation on the internet?!?"

Hon, I agree that life is about taking risks. But this one seems really exceptionally risky, because you don't know what all the risks are, and you are ignoring your own gut feelings. I have never done both of those things and not regretted it.

Just be really careful. And I wish you luck and hope it all works out ok.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Flatlander, it is on separate floors too!

The lack of empathy for him from other CD's astounds me. Other than talk to me, he hasn't done anything wrong. I stand by my comment, this is a very judgmental group. He and I talk only. I think feelings are progressing, and what he learns from that, time will tell. I am not a man and thus, I think I have maybe a little more self-control than I am given credit for. I won't let him cheat with me, but as far as being friends, I think that is on his end and something he and his wife need to work out. I actually am feeling that most on here, except for a minor few, are ready to stone the both of us.

Lisa, you seem to have made up your mind that you are happy to let things take their course. Your perogative. We are simply sharing our experiences without emotional attachment on the facts as you present them.

My personal experience shared at #29 did not involve CDing ... simply a marriage in which we had grown apart and I was vulnerable to female friendship. But there are more similarities with your and his situation. Neither of us was looking for a relationship, and there was a vast distance between us and initially it was just fun chatting by phone and internet. At that stage I didn't CD.

I don't understand how this or many other replies translate into lack of empathy from CDers. You asked us for thoughts on a relationship with a married man 20 years your senior who you have not met in person. That's what you are getting. Sorry that it doesn't support your romantic notions ... another similarity, I didn't listen to advice either.

[Lisa9099]

I don't think anyone is saying that for sure about him, and even if we were, that has nothing to do whatsoever with him being a CD and everything to do with him being male. Some men - really a surprising number of them, will lie for a relationship, especially one that could become sexual. Even if that isn't his intent at all, and it really may not be, there is a good chance his wife would be unhappy with his emotional intimacy with you, and might view that as more threatening than just a sexual encounter.

But let's go back to your first post:



So you obviously feel guilty about this - says so right there. Yet you ask what people think - hoping to rationalize this because he's in an unhappy marriage with a spouse who doesn't accept him. Let's review the red flags here shall we:
1. You feel guilty about this - hon, go with your gut. Red flag.
2. Oh hell, you are gonna ignore your gut feeling - stupid old instincts and conscience, what does it know? Red flag.
3. You've never met him, but it's really obvious you have feelings for him - see mention of love above in your OP. Love him? You don't even know him. Red flag.
4. He tells you he's miserable and misunderstood - but he doesn't leave. Hey, this could very well be true, its common around here. Unfortunately just about every philanderer on earth makes this same claim. Again, it'd be one thing if you knew him, and could say "yeah, wow, what a horrible marriage," but you don't even really know that. Red flag
5. Even if, as is likely, he really is just a very lonely man in an awful relationship, that doesn't make it right for him to develop an intimate friendship with a woman about whom he is not talking about with his wife. (Hello - vows and stuff?) Red flag.
6. When you ask a group of disinterested strangers who have some reason to be biased in his favor, and they tell you "be careful," you get kind of defensive about it - you don't seem to be looking for advice as much as validation for what you've already decided to do. Big red flag.

So let's just break this down - you are going into this blind, you've never met him, and against your own better judgment. You are already dreaming about love, and you are looking for a rarionalization for something you are going to do regardless.

Can you honestly tell me, "Yeah Paula, this is an awesome idea! No WAY anything could go wrong! I mean who lies about themselves or their situation on the internet?!?"

Hon, I agree that life is about taking risks. But this one seems really exceptionally risky, because you don't know what all the risks are, and you are ignoring your own gut feelings. I have never done both of those things and not regretted it.

Just be really careful. And I wish you luck and hope it all works out ok.
So you obviously feel guilty about this - says so right there. Yet you ask what people think - hoping to rationalize this because he's in an unhappy marriage with a spouse who doesn't accept him. Let's review the red flags here shall we:
1. You feel guilty about this - hon, go with your gut. Red flag. (I also feel guilty when I drive by a church because I hardly ever attend mass. ).
2. Oh hell, you are gonna ignore your gut feeling - stupid old instincts and conscience, what does it know? Red flag. (I never said I was going to ignore my gut feeling and also my gut is telling me I met a really spectacular man).
3. You've never met him, but it's really obvious you have feelings for him - see mention of love above in your OP. Love him? You don't even know him. Red flag. (I don’t love him, but I am aware of how feelings can grow).
4. He tells you he's miserable and misunderstood - but he doesn't leave. Hey, this could very well be true, its common around here. Unfortunately just about every philanderer on earth makes this same claim. Again, it'd be one thing if you knew him, and could say "yeah, wow, what a horrible marriage," but you don't even really know that. Red flag (He NEVER said he was miserable and misunderstood and I don’t think I ever said he was either).
5. Even if, as is likely, he really is just a very lonely man in an awful relationship, that doesn't make it right for him to develop an intimate friendship with a woman about whom he is not talking about with his wife. (Hello - vows and stuff?) Red flag. (that’s subjective and if she wants DADT, then maybe she’s got it. I know that sounds cruel, but DADT isn't that healthy for either husband or wife ).
6. When you ask a group of disinterested strangers who have some reason to be biased in his favor, and they tell you "be careful," you get kind of defensive about it - you don't seem to be looking for advice as much as validation for what you've already decided to do. Big red flag. (I was looking for more of an understanding of what his mindset is and not to be told he’s basically a creep for just talking to me. ).

So let's just break this down - you are going into this blind, you've never met him, and against your own better judgment. You are already dreaming about love, and you are looking for a rarionalization for something you are going to do regardless. (I’m not dreaming about love at all. I am dreaming of having someone special in my life in one form or another and that form may very well be a very good friend. r).

Can you honestly tell me, "Yeah Paula, this is an awesome idea! No WAY anything could go wrong! I mean who lies about themselves or their situation on the internet?!?" (I think you’re a jaded individual and you’re views are skewed by your past experiences which have made you very bitter. ).

Hon, I agree that life is about taking risks. But this one seems really exceptionally risky, because you don't know what all the risks are, and you are ignoring your own gut feelings. (like I said my gut feeling isn’t leading me away from him. I feel badly because he is married, but he’s a big boy and can make his own big boy decisions).

[PaulaQ]

@Lisa - I'm very sorry if I offended you. I really do hope things turn out ok for you. Just for the record, I'm not a CD, I am a woman, and I'm not interested in dating a GG. Despite the rather awful outcome of the tale of an internet relationship with a man that I told you about, I still like men, and am dating a wonderful man who I met first in real life, and knew for some months before we ever went out. I don't think I'm bitter about it at all.

I do wish you the best of luck and hope everything works out for you both.

[Tracii G]

Lisa a lot of us have seen this type of thing happen many times over on this site and other sites.
You asked for opinions did you not? They may not be what you wanted to hear and that is very apparent.

[Beverley Sims]

You may have a bond with each other.
It is a bond I would sever now.
In the long run you would both have a happier new year.

[Stephanie47]

I find it interesting that you find so many respondents to your thread/question as judgmental or lacking empathy for him. I responded to go ahead and do what you want. Both of you are adults and capable of making your own decisions and owning the consequences. I said what I would do and not do, i.e., not get involved. If you ask for an opinion and the answer is not to your liking, I really do not know what to say. If a respondent states that he would not get involved and suggests breaking it off because of numerous reasons, then of course the respondent is judgmental.

I will continue to stress you really do not know who this man really is. I'm glad you researched him. However, you really never know a person until you live with the person for some period of time. Sometimes the signs appear during courtship, even though everyone tends to be on their best behavior. Sometimes it's right after marriage.


Flatlander, it is on separate floors too!

The lack of empathy for him from other CD's astounds me. Other than talk to me, he hasn't done anything wrong. I stand by my comment, this is a very judgmental group. He and I talk only. I think feelings are progressing, and what he learns from that, time will tell. I am not a man and thus, I think I have maybe a little more self-control than I am given credit for. I won't let him cheat with me, but as far as being friends, I think that is on his end and something he and his wife need to work out. I actually am feeling that most on here, except for a minor few, are ready to stone the both of us.

As to whether what you're doing is cheating, ask whether or not his wife knows and approves. I agree with those who suggest it is cheating when there is emotional support involved. You may not agree. He may not agree. I think the answer for you and him is obvious.

Me? I have coffee about once a month with a woman who is young enough to be my daughter. Our friendship was developed through a mutual interest in collecting. This woman and her children have been to our home. My wife has talked to her for hours. My wife has met some of her daughters. My wife knows what her husband does, and, her husband knows who I am.

Heck, in the past my wife has even gone out with my approval with an old boyfriend from high school. I know him. He knows me. I just did not want to be totally bored with heir mutual interest. Above all, I know my wife and my wife knows me.

I noticed several respondents have suggested taking the cross dressing out of the equation. What would the answer be then? What if his wife has absolutely zero interest in fishing or golfing? Why wouldn't he tell his wife he found an attractive successful adoring younger woman who just loves fishing too! I chuckle, years ago my wife told me it was OK to go fishing, but, don't expect her to clean it.

[Mimi]

Lisa, would you be willing to be friends with his wife as well? Help her understand her husband? If not, then there is an issue, especially if he doesn't want to tell his wife about you. Cheating is not just physical intimacy--it is emotional intimacy as well, especially if one spouse does not even tell the other that there is the friendship.

Also, how have you verified the actual truth of your friend's marriage? Do you absolutely know for certain that he and his wife sleep in different rooms?

I think we are actually more judgmental of the man than we are of you--he is the one who is telling you what you want to hear--that you are providing support to him that his wife won't, etc. It's one of the oldest stories in the book--the man talks about his wife who doesn't understand him, makes her out to be terrible, and in reality she's just another human being who may well love her husband and have no idea this is going on.

[Alice Torn]

Lisa, You said that people come into our lives for a reason, or reasons. Yes. True. Sometimes, it is for good, and sometimes, it is for not so good reasons. Always use caution, especially in these days we live in, where there is so much crime, deception, and dysfunction. I would let him know you are only an acquaintance, maybe friend, and that is all, as long as he is married. I have met people in my life who i thought were so wonderful, only, to be hurt badly, ripped off, my heart left in the gutter. Maybe you can just be a friend, which is totally ok. When it gets emotionally, needing, and dependency, better back off. i can understand, as I go for several days or more, without any meaningful conversation, with another human! Other than cashier talk. Thanks for shopping here, have a nice day stuff. Some men, especially single Cders go many days with no conversations, and have incredible isolation, and lonliness.

[MissTee]

Hey again, Lisa. You seem to be getting a bit of fame here as this post is quite active. I have to admit I am reading with great interest how things progress, and I love to see you reveal more of your story. So, thank you for providing a very interesting read and I hope that in some small way we are helping you vet your feelings.

My original thoughts have not changed. Please do be careful. I remember when one of my daughters got involved with a married man. It was both frustrating and painful for my wife and I to advise without offending, and to hold back on how strongly we felt about her decisions. I vividly remember her making a lot of the same assertions that you are sharing. It was a very bumpy two year journey and it ended very, very badly. Our daughter was emotionally devastated for a very long time afterward and that hurt us very much. We second guessed ourselves on should we have said or done more. In the end no one can say for certain. We've all moved on, although a bit wiser.

I share all that not to say your journey will end the same. Indeed, I hope it does not. I share it more to hopefully enlighten you on how folks like me take the position we do. We've seen others get hurt, and since you came seeking insight you'll get from us what life has cast our way and what experience has taught us. Good luck!

[docrobbysherry]

Lisa, I may have a different perspective on this. For a number of reasons:

Maybe because I had no desire to dress until late in my life. Before then, I thot pretty much like "regular" men.

I AM 71 years old.

I was married for 7 years before our "great" partnership simply melted away like an ice cube in July. Unlike many other married folks, neither of us were willing to become "room mates".


I don't see that your relationship has much to do with his dressing. Unless your conversations r dominated by his questions about makeup, heels, and girdles? I'll bet they aren't! As much as it is about a lonely man in a very tired marriage and a lonely middle aged woman, intrigued getting to know an interesting man u MAY have completely ignored if u had met him at the mall first. If I'm off base? It won't be much further than many others posting here!

As an older man, I have been very intrigued be the interest an attention of younger women. (Some were over 20 years my junior). And, as I was divorced, I was able to do a lot more than talk with them. Unfortunately, the ones I was interested in all seemed interested in marriage and I'm not! Your gentleman may not only be flattered and excited by your attention, your distance makes u non threatening to him and his situation. U aren't asking for anything and u aren't going to make waves in his boring but comfortable and routine life. Lastly, he doesn't have to worry about "performing". Which he mite if u were close enuff to have an affair!

My advice to u? Ignore everything u read here unless it strikes u as being on point to your situation. I'm betting u have the experience and smarts to do the rite thing.:battingeyelashes:

[sometimes_miss]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. He used your words exactly, he said meeting me is a "one in a million" opportunity. I guess this explains his generosity with me. I am glad that you wrote because I'm just trying to understand his mindset and where he's coming from and your response helped.

I wasn't saying that he was being generous for that reason. Just that it MIGHT be the reason. Easy enough to tell; watch how he treats people who can do absolutely nothing for him. Waitresses, garbage men, people at the fast food counter, sales staff, etc.; is he nice to them? Does he greet people or just walk past them staring straight ahead every time (of course, if he lives in a big city that can change things a bit, simply because you can't interact with that many people)? More than just polite, when someone does anything for him, does he truly thank them with a smile? Is he naturally drawn to animals? Kids? Does he help people for no reason? And I don't mean how he treats YOU. Most men will treat people nice when they want something from them. It's how they treat those same people when they DON'T want, or need, anything from them, that tells you what they're really like.

[Marcelle]

I have read through all the posts and to be honest I am bit confused. . Yes the CDer is married and perhaps (just perhaps) he may be slinging a line of woe and misery to enamour a younger woman or . . . perhaps he is a lonely man who has become comfortable in a DADT relationship in which he cannot discuss things important to him and now he is looking to connect emotionally with a kind soul who is willing to listen. The fact that she is a GG seems to automatically imply he wants to cheat on his wife. Yet I read nothing in the post which implies he wants to cheat . . . no invites to come and meet him at some secluded rendezvous noted. Just conversation about what is important to him with a woman who seems to understand. Could it blossom into more? Possibly and guess what . . . it happens all the time. Just because he is married doesn't mean he can't fall in love with someone else . . . we don't always marry our soul mate first time out the gate. Expecting someone to stay in a relationship they are not happy with because they are married and have a family . . . well kind of seems 1950s to me. I have a friend whose grandmother divorced her husband of 50 years and married another man who she met at a church group because he was her soul mate.

Goodness me, we (CDers) all know how lonely this life can be for some of us . . . to coin a phrase from a Mama Cass song "The loneliest kind of lonely". Yet so many are ready to crucify this CDer (who might even be a member/lurker here BTW) as some sneaky old dude trying to hook a younger woman for a good time. Why? Because that is what guys do? Really are we going to paint an entire gender with the same brush based on the bad decisions of a few . . . I guess we could then extrapolate that all CDers are sneaky bad people because this guy probably is. We always talk about how people don't give us (CDers) a chance yet many are doing the same thing here . . . judging one person based on nothing but conjecture and personal experience. While personal experience is good form of advice, you also have to be cognizant that your life is not the keystone of all things and there may actually be people out there who have good motives to do what they choose to do.

I can understand why the OP took this personally and I doubt we will see her here again (unfortunately). To imply this family man wants to cheat arbitrarily casts her in the role of the shameless soul intent on breaking up the marriage. That may not have been your intention but remember what you say can and will be interpreted several ways and it will not always be the way the you wanted it to be interpreted. The great saying "the pen is mightier than the sword" rings true in that words (even good intentioned ones) can do more damage to the soul than a sword.

Okay I will step off the soapbox.

Hugs

Isha

[AllieSF]

Well stated Isha. It is funny how we tend to go from giving sound advice to then labeling all others, just like ourselves by the way, as perverted men looking to score and deceive. People, give the world a break and realize that, yes, some of those people exist but the majority of us are actually very nice people. Also, give Lisa some respect for being a mature and very well founded person and not some innocent unknowing little girl, nor someone trying to break up someone else's relationship.

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!

[Stephanie47]

Hmmm? I cannot remember the last time a woman gave me a pair of my favorite panties... I wonder what my wife would say if a woman she did not know gave me a pair of my favorite intimate panties? Just wondering out loud.

[Marcelle]

Hmm . . . what is she bought him a "golf club" or a "bottle of brandy"?

[Lisa9099]

Hmmm? I cannot remember the last time a woman gave me a pair of my favorite panties... I wonder what my wife would say if a woman she did not know gave me a pair of my favorite intimate panties? Just wondering out loud.

Sorry, I wasn't going to come back to this site, but I have to respond to this as I feel again like judgments are being unfairly made. The reason why I sent him panties was because those are the items that he bought from me. There aren't many items that he needs or wants, but I know that he likes (loves) his panties....I think most of you do. If I met him because he purchased batteries from me, I probably would have sent him some extra batteries.

And thank you Isha and AllieSF for your responses. We've really done nothing wrong, unless you feel talking is wrong and he's never said one bad word about his wife - not one disrespectful word - if he did, then that would be wrong.

I do appreciate that so many of you responded, but most responses were based on the premise that he's a coward, a cheater, a pervert, and a man with little character - it's very far from the truth. Do I know everything about him? No, I don't, but I do know that he's a good person and has been nothing but respectful to me.

[ReineD]

He used your words exactly, he said meeting me is a "one in a million" opportunity. I guess this explains his generosity with me.

I don't know if you're big on studies, but the little research there has been so far (below is a sampling if you're interested), report there are many more accepting wives than CDers who happen to be in non-understanding relationships believe. It doesn't surprise me that a CDer would believe that an accepting woman is one in a million, if his wife is not supportive and he hasn't spoken to others about the CDing because he is closeted. Also, a lot of members here report having feelings of shame and guilt and some of these feelings may well be projected onto others.

So to begin, have a look at all the posts and threads just in this forum from members who do have supportive partners. I've run a search for "accepting wives, supportive SO", there are about 4 pages of threads and not all the threads about supportive partners will have been tagged:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/tags.php?tag=accepting+wives%2C+supportive+so%2C+


-----------------------------------

These are published articles in academic journals. Even as far back as the mid-1990s, there was a great deal more support than many CDers believe. It continued to improve as more information became available on the internet. Anyway, you can look them up if you wish, or maybe other members will find the information useful:

Study of 106 women over 6 years. One in four women (25%) reveal that CD is sexually stimulating. 66% don't leave the marriage.
Brown (1994). "Women in relationships with cross dressing men: A descriptive study from a nonclinical setting". Archives of Sexual Behavior, 23, 515-530.

In this study of over 1,000 crossdressers, 28% of the wives were completely accepting while 47% had mixed views. Only 19% reported antagonism towards the crossdressing.
Docter, Prince (1997). "Transvestism: A survey of 1,032 crossdressers. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 26, 589-605.

This is a small study, but a revealing one. It shows that most married men had wives who were either tolerant or accepting of the crossdressing, and the most negative responses (anger, betrayal, and fear) were from wives who had found out about their husband's crossdressing years into their marriage. Do you know if your friend's wife was told about the CDing when they married?
Reynolds, Caron (2000) "How intimate relationships are impacted when heterosexual men crossdress". Journal of Psychology & Human sexuality, 12(3), 63-77.

[PaulaQ]

Isha - how would your wife feel if she read another woman writing this about you, particularly that first line?


And I find myself falling quickly and I think he is quite smitten. He’s about 20 years my senior. He’s very generous and bought me a few presents and I’ve bought him some of his favorite panties in return.

Especially if the friendship with the woman writing it came as a surprise to her as well?

Of course your relationship isn't DADT - so there's an expectation of disclosure that's absent in a DADT situation. And I think that's the trouble in such a relationship - at what point DO you disclose something?

[flatlander_48]

I would add:

...and how do you avoid feeling it's like hitting a wall?

[mykell]

hello again lisa,
you set the question to be answered in two very different scenarios, plus your original post has key words, "guilt, alluring, craved," and the last lines,

"What’s a GG to do??? Like I said, this may not even go anywhere. He has a lot invested in his marriage. I don’t know if me being 20 years younger and loving the CD part of him might have him do something that he really would have never done.

Any thoughts?? "

may not go anywhere, something he may not have ever done ..... suggestive lines....potential for a relationship....


you received thoughts from about 30+ members, very questionable scenario.....

soo....please do take the advise and criticism from where it comes from, and please dont judge the whole community by a single thread posted during what is generally a slow time in the seasonal part of the calender year, many not participating....and if this had been posted in a different section you may have had different answers to the main question you raised,

"if you are in a DADT marriage and in your own bedroom and you fell in love with another women who accepted and enjoyed you the way you are, what would you do?"

i cant answer as my situation is different and i keyed in on the "whats a gg to do" I did however key in on the crossdressing aspect as this is a crossdressing support site and as such i hope you were impressed that we will try to be as truthful and fair and not always side with the crossdresser when the task of opinion is presented.

i hope that your participation wont end here by a single negative experience, with or without the prospect of you dating a CDer it is better that we have a different perspective available from the "outside" of our "norm" to ponder from one that accepts our lifestyle....hope to read more from you in the future....

[Shelly Preston]

Sorry, I wasn't going to come back to this site, but I have to respond to this as I feel again like judgments are being unfairly made.

Lisa, its sometimes hard for people to be correct with limited information. I am sure a lot of replies were based on their own experiences.

The reason why I sent him panties was because those are the items that he bought from me. There aren't many items that he needs or wants, but I know that he likes (loves) his panties....I think most of you do. If I met him because he purchased batteries from me, I probably would have sent him some extra batteries.

I cant argue with that idea we all love getting those little extras when we buy anything anywhere.


And thank you Isha and AllieSF for your responses. We've really done nothing wrong, unless you feel talking is wrong and he's never said one bad word about his wife - not one disrespectful word - if he did, then that would be wrong.

I do appreciate that so many of you responded, but most responses were based on the premise that he's a coward, a cheater, a pervert, and a man with little character - it's very far from the truth. Do I know everything about him? No, I don't, but I do know that he's a good person and has been nothing but respectful to me.

The biggest problem you have I would say is the age gap and what you expect form continued contact or meeting. I know a lot of people who started relationships online which worked out fine. Be they friendships or something more.

Lisa, We cant make a decision for you all we can do is give you differing viewpoints and let you choose.

[Lisa9099]

Isha - how would your wife feel if she read another woman writing this about you, particularly that first line?



Especially if the friendship with the woman writing it came as a surprise to her as well?

Of course your relationship isn't DADT - so there's an expectation of disclosure that's absent in a DADT situation. And I think that's the trouble in such a relationship - at what point DO you disclose something?

I can answer part of this for you. The fact that he's 20 years my senior is just a fact and it's not like I'm 25 years old either - I'm a mature woman. The part about him being very generous - it's just a truth. He appears to be generous with everyone in his life. I try to be the same way. When we originally met and he bought items from me, I gave him quite a few more than he originally purchased because I couldn't believe someone would pay that much. I also did that on his second order. This was before we even spoke, so the generosity actually started with me. Once we got to know each other better, I think he realized that he's in a far, far better financial situation than I am in and at Christmas time, he gave me a generous gift. I am single and wasn't able to have children. Do you know how many other Christmas presents I received? Zilch, zero, not one! I actually cried when I saw that he sent me something. It was the sweetest gesture. I sent him his favorite panties because that's what I know he likes and that's what I had that I could give him - he doesn't have a need/want for anything else. Even those, he can buy for himself. I just didn't want to not send him anything. I also told him that he doesn't need to buy me or give me anything at all.

That being said, I asked him last night if he thought we'd ever meet. His answer was, "who knows?". That answer made me smile because I realized that we are both in the same boat. What happens between us? Who knows? Life will happen.

I find myself falling quickly and I think he is smitten. Yeah, I do I kind of like the guy - I do. From what I know of him, he's everything I'd want in a husband, lover, friend, brother or father. I think he thinks I'm pretty special too. Does it mean he will leave his wife and life behind? I don't really think so and I'm okay with that. I've had opportunities to be with married men in the past and I've never done that before - it's not something that I'd want, but with him - I'm just going to let life happen.

[Teresa]

Lisa,
After all the replies no one appears to have given it a thought that at 72 the guy may be totally lonely in a now loveless relationship he may do nothing about your contact but at least he feels he's found someone who's interested in him ! Perhaps that's all he needs, in reality the CDing part maybe irrelevant !

It is hard being in a relationship like that, I sometimes feel my CDing is being used as an excuse to cover up lack of deep feeling anymore !

[Claire Cook]

That being said, I asked him last night if he thought we'd ever meet. His answer was, "who knows?". That answer made me smile because I realized that we are both in the same boat. What happens between us? Who knows? Life will happen.

I find myself falling quickly and I think he is smitten. Yeah, I do I kind of like the guy - I do. From what I know of him, he's everything I'd want in a husband, lover, friend, brother or father. I think he thinks I'm pretty special too. Does it mean he will leave his wife and life behind? I don't really think so and I'm okay with that. I've had opportunities to be with married men in the past and I've never done that before - it's not something that I'd want, but with him - I'm just going to let life happen.

Lisa, the more I read in this thread the more I hope this somehow works out for both of you. You both are obviously warm, caring people.


I don't know if you're big on studies, but the little research there has been so far (below is a sampling if you're interested), report there are many more accepting wives than CDers who happen to be in non-understanding relationships believe.

Reine, this is probably off-topic but thank you so much for pointing these out. I had no idea -- just judging from the posts here, I've have thought that tolerant / accepting wives / GF's / SO's were in the minority. Or maybe that's because we tend to focus on those of us with troubled relationships.

[Lisa9099]

Lisa,
After all the replies no one appears to have given it a thought that at 72 the guy may be totally lonely in a now loveless relationship he may do nothing about your contact but at least he feels he's found someone who's interested in him ! Perhaps that's all he needs, in reality the CDing part maybe irrelevant !

It is hard being in a relationship like that, I sometimes feel my CDing is being used as an excuse to cover up lack of deep feeling anymore !

Thanks for your response, Teresa. I think you're probably very right and I'm okay with him doing nothing about it. I'm not putting any pressure on him to do anything at all, and nor has he put any pressure on me. I'm happy to be his friend. I can sleep at night knowing I'm not doing anything wrong. Part of me thinks all that he needed was to hear a woman say that he's totally okay the way he is...and he is. His wife makes him feel less of a man. I may be wrong, but I almost feel like women in the DADT relationships have a psychological stronghold on the CD'r.

[Annaliese]

Lisa you are friend with what sound like a vary nice man, and there is nothing wrong with that, age should not make any difference, Let your heart lead you.

[Jill Devine]

Lisa if you knew me in real life you would know me to be a very non-judgemental person. God I've messed up so many times I would not know how to begin to list my mistakes so who am I to judge you. Please believe me when I say I am coming from a very gentle place. Promise.
My advice to you is to try and remove the CD aspect from the situation. Then the question boils down to what to do about a married man you are chatting to online while emotional feelings are starting to grow. Well my advice will always be to rather walk away because there are so many innocent people who could get hurt. My advice actually isn't meant to be judgemental but rather meant to be simple good advice. You have a very limited window of time left before emotions grow past the point of no return. I would encourage you to rather step back while you can. You sound like a very grounded and smart person and I think deep down you know what the right thing to do is. Unfortunately a lot of the advice given by the group has come off as attacking and judgemental so I understand the human reaction to push back.

Anyways I wish you nothing but the best and I hope that you consider the advice.

[Lisa9099]

I was going to reply to the thread that Issha started, but it was closed. Here is my last statement on the matter. Thanks again all for your replies, regardless of where you stand in the matter.

Let me start by saying that I was going to leave this site and never come back again. I was lurking on here for almost a good month to try to learn more about cross dressing and DADT relationships. I had finally gotten the guts to post my first question and I didn’t expect the responses that I received. I can take advice, even if it’s not what I want to hear, but it’s the assumption that he’s a horrible person looking for some illicit affair that started to really irritate me. I asked him last night if he thought we’d ever meet. He stated very calmly, “who knows?”. We likely may never meet. I’m okay with that – first and foremost, I want to be his friend. I gave him panties as a gift because that’s what he bought from me and I know he likes them – no other reason. He gave me a Christmas gift because he knew I wasn’t getting one from anyone else – I don’t have a spouse or children. I think it was one of the nicest things anyone has done for me in my life. It literally made me want to cry – it was so sweet, but most of you turned it into something other than that. Sometimes things just are what they are – he’s a generous person. He’s not just generous with me, he’s generous with all of the people that he cares about. He said he was, “just happy to make me happy”. To me, that’s a great person who I am lucky to have as a friend.

One poster commented that my story was “a crock”. Well thanks for that lovely statement. I’m not sure what about my story made you feel that way. People questioned why I used words like “alluring,” “feeling guilty,” and such. Well, to be frank, I used alluring because he is alluring. Last time I looked an intelligent, handsome, kind, successful man is pretty damn alluring. I used “feeling guilty” because I do feel guilty because he is married. My story would be a crock if I didn’t use the words that I was really feeling. I’m a reasonably attractive woman, I own my own place, I have been at the same job for almost twenty years, I don’t drink much, if at all, I don’t smoke, - I have a lot of good qualities. I don’t need a married man. He and I happened upon each other. This is life, isn’t it? Things happen and they’re not always pretty.

What I wanted to learn more about was DADT marriages and how they make someone feel – truly feel. It might even be more psychologically damaging than being alone, but what do I know? My story was basically to tell you the reasons and give you an idea of why I was asking. Will I lurk around here and throw my opinions in every now and then, I just may, but I don’t think I’d put my situation out there again. I’ll just learn via my own experience.

[Christina Alice]

Lisa,
I think it's very sad that the world thinks a man (or CD) can't have a real friendship with a woman without it having to mean a relationship. Comments about a 72-year old man are out of place (I'm 72 this year and married) because friendship between people is just that: friendship and it can be between people of any age. I have a great friendship with a married woman in another country where we have a house. We correspond by email most day about all sorts of things and there has never been any question of it being a relationship. Both our spouses know that we correspond in this way and there is no problem. Even more than this, my wife has had a friendship with a married former work colleague for the last 50 years during which time he would phone her quite regularly and pick her up from our house and take her to dinner on occasion - no problem. They were friends (and still are) and she is still my wife.
On the other hand, there is always someone around who will read all the wrong things into such a friendship. I would say, ignore them and live your life as you want. You are dead an awful long time and this isn't a dress rehearsal: it's your one shot AT LIFE.

[Katey888]

Lisa,

You've had a lot of opinions expressed already here and advice given freely - unfortunately we are effectively a public, amateur forum, and that sometimes shows in the breadth of opinion and range of experiences.... but that is the nature of the forum, as subjects that we wholly agree on as a group are generally as rare as hen's teeth... :doh:

You are a mature woman who obviously understands the potential pitfalls... You've tapped a lot of very emotive opinions here, most of it from members who are NOT in a DADT relationship... (me neither) - had you asked explicitly ONLY for DADT members to reply, it might have been a more balanced and less judgmental perspective you would have received... might have been... ;)

I'd just offer this one piece of advice: you know you have to make your own choices based on your own values and beliefs, not those of others. Even if you filtered out those in DADT relationships here, YOU are still unique and YOUR SITUATION is unique... One thing that comes back to me again and again as I review my life and what happens in it, is how much of it could and should have been experiential, and I passed up those opportunities because I didn't fully appreciate how much more valuable it is to experience those moments rather than be too safe and too concerned about the impact on others... We are all relatively selfish with some things (the Human Condition drives us to that a bit) and it's not a bad thing, particularly if your own values and beliefs can live with it...

It sounds to me like you have one of those opportunities to progress or discard... what's the worst that can happen? And are you prepared to live with the outcome? :thinking:

BTW, just pondering.... I think many men might find it hard to offhandedly reject the attentions of a woman much younger, and one so accepting too... You might just be inciting a little envy here with your opportunity and situation... just an observation...

Good luck - and do come back - we're not a bad bunch of weirdos overall... :D

Katey x

[SandraInHose]

Lisa, you've been provided with a LOT of advice, most of it leaning one direction, with only a small percentage leaning the other. You seem resistant to most of this advice, and I sympathize, as not every aspect of any relationship can be summed up in a few paragraphs.

The other thing is that everybody knows that asking complete and semi-anonymous strangers on the internet is the best way to solve our dilemmas! (LOL just kidding!)

Although many of us have life's experience, none of us can hand it off and make it fit anyone else's life. If I could give my adult kids anything, it would be all of my life's experience, just so they wouldn't have to learn things the hard way, like all of us have. But I cannot do that, I can only offer advice and guidance, such as what you're receiving here. We all mean well, and each of us believe our opinion is right. Nobody's leading you astray, but you and only you must be the one to guide your own ship, as it goes, and of course, be responsible for what may happen. Some of the best-laid plans do not live up to expectations, while others sometime exceed expectations. You can play it safe and wonder 'what if?' Or you can go with your gut. Make your decision and keep us posted...wishing you the best no matter which direction you go.

FWIW, I tend to lean toward the advice docrobbysherry gave, especially his last sentence. (at the top of this page...reply #76).

[PaulaQ]

@Lisa - again, I'm sorry that I came off as judgmental. Sometimes good people find themselves in difficult situations, and particularly with ethically difficult situations, my only concern was that when things go wrong, they tend to go really wrong. So I hope that doesn't happen to you.

I sympathize that you are both lonely, and I wish you both the best with your friendship. Being in a lonely, loveless marriage is an terrible situation, as many here can attest.

[Annaliese]

Please, stop we have already run her off, enough is enough.

[Lorileah]

I agree, that's enough for this thread

[Tamara Croft]

I know Lori locked this thread, but I just wanted to applaud the judge, jury and executioners on here, well done, you sure know how to show some support don't you....

Lisa, you'll have to excuse some of the 'supposed' supportive members who have been horrible to you in this thread, we aren't all like that here (I'm a GG btw). These members here giving you hell aren't innocent either, maybe you touched a nerve with a few of them, who knows, I can only apologise for them making you feel judged :(