Do we really need to be perfect to fit in?

[Southern Michele]

I think it is fair to say that the members, and perhaps visitors, here are quite a diverse lot. Like life there are extremes. Some of the ladies here are truly blessed with natural features and talents of beauty queens and provide inspiration to the rest of us. Many of us have imperfect lives with hidden desires, emotions, and joys. I for one have never been able to share this side of me with family or friends. (50+ years)

But what if you could simply do what you want and not have self imposed pressure to "go out" or worry about the holy grail of passing if you went to the store or where you would have go if nature calls? I will never pass under scrutiny. I went to SCC once and know one screamed "man in a skirt." Now that I am retired I have my ears double pierced and for those of you thinking about it the only two comments I got were from a good work friend and my doctor. "Did it hurt" (NO) and "Going for the Pirate Look?" You may find it bothers you while laying on a pillow but this passes.

Been inside since New Years wearing tights, Mary Jane flats, jean skirt, butterfly T or pink T, my gold earrings and I am good. Curled my lashes a little, plucked a errant eyebrow, pumiced my feet and legs after epilating. All no big deal. I no longer mess with wigs, makeup, special nails, etc. I am bald as a cue ball but the bottom line is that I am very comfortable and have found a good place. I would like to feel comfortable answering my own front door as I am, go out to my grill without putting on jeans, or simply go to the grocery store or restaurant without ending up on "The People from WalMart". Maybe we set our bar too high for acceptance. Rather that complain about some women dressing in jeans and T shirts and tennis shoes, start small with a jean skirt and Mary Jane flats at Starbucks, the grocery store, or Home Depot.

Got two cents, throw them in the pot.

[Beverley Sims]

I often dress in a way that looks downright ugly.
I dress to relax and enjoy wearing what I please.

[scarletcd]

Maybe we set our bar too high for acceptance.


I think you may be onto something there. Its important to accept yourself first and foremost and sometimes that bar we may set for ourselves is difficult to reach.
It would be nice if we could all express ourselves without worry. Personally I just love everyone :D

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Michel, When I dress I try to look as feminine as I can.

[KlaireLarnia]

I think that some people may set the bar too high as you say, but no we do not need to be perfect to fit in.

There are two sides this in my opinion: First we need to be comfortable enough with what we do and wear so we do not show any anxiety when outside - people pick up on this very quickly. Secondly we need to respect others. Wearing a skirt in public will likely get you a lot of negativity and rude comments - so don't. Wear jeans, shorts, loose t-shirts, jumpers, whatever. I started with female versions of my male clothes and worked from there. I can now wear pretty much anything I want and so. But I never hide I am a man.

I often sit on the phone at work and speak to people and wonder what they would think if they could actually see me in my female clothes and shoes.

I am not trying to be perfect. I am just being me - and because I am comfortable and happy with "me", others do not (normally) give me any negativity for it.

[Rachael Leigh]

I know I tend to dress prob 10 to 15 years younger than I am and I love it since when I was that age I had no chance to dress. I not sure for a CD there is a perfect style we are just as different as and diverse as GGs

[Jason+]

I no longer mess with wigs, makeup, special nails, etc. I am bald as a cue ball but the bottom line is that I am very comfortable and have found a good place. I would like to feel comfortable answering my own front door as I am, go out to my grill without putting on jeans, or simply go to the grocery store or restaurant without ending up on "The People from WalMart". Maybe we set our bar too high for acceptance. Rather that complain about some women dressing in jeans and T shirts and tennis shoes, start small with a jean skirt and Mary Jane flats at Starbucks, the grocery store, or Home Depot.


Michele,

I've never to the best of my knowledge ended up on "The People from WalMart" so I will assume you are safe too! I don't know whether it's acceptance or tolerance but when out and about much like you suggest wishing to be comfortable I have had good experiences short of one drive by "fagging." :D None of the places you mentioned have had much negative reaction to me at all to include today's visit to Supercuts.


I think that some people may set the bar too high as you say, but no we do not need to be perfect to fit in.

There are two sides this in my opinion: First we need to be comfortable enough with what we do and wear so we do not show any anxiety when outside - people pick up on this very quickly. Secondly we need to respect others. Wearing a skirt in public will likely get you a lot of negativity and rude comments - so don't. Wear jeans, shorts, loose t-shirts, jumpers, whatever. I started with female versions of my male clothes and worked from there. I can now wear pretty much anything I want and so. But I never hide I am a man.

I often sit on the phone at work and speak to people and wonder what they would think if they could actually see me in my female clothes and shoes.

I am not trying to be perfect. I am just being me - and because I am comfortable and happy with "me", others do not (normally) give me any negativity for it.

Klaire I am slightly confused by your post. You seem to advocate for being comfortable enough with yourself to wear what you want while not hiding that you are a man specifically excluding skirts. Michele specifically wants to be more comfortable wearing them and recommends them. Was your point not to wear them at all or to be comfortable with yourself before you tried to?

[mechamoose]

I think one of the bravest things any of us can do is go out *knowing* that we don't pass, but doing it because it is who we are.

Do you really need 'their' approval? Why?

Really, think about that... *why*?

If you live in a part of the world where doing so risks your life, then ok. No argument from me. But if you don't and you are just afraid of 'nasty comments'? Why do you give a fig about what those people think? Seriously.. why?

Will they be your friend? Will they be there when 'life' happens and you need a shoulder to cry on? Will they help you move (a body)?

No. They won't. FRIENDS do that.

I'd be more concerned what FRIENDS think of you before I gave a damn about some random stranger.

<3

- MM

[Kate Simmons]

Why should we have to be "perfect" Michele, no one else is. :battingeyelashes::)

[Sometimes Steffi]

I know that I don't pass, except in the darkest of night, but I do go for plausible deniability.

I know some people go out as a man in a dress without makeup, wigs or forms, but that's jut not my think.

I also wouldn't go out in something where I'm overly exposed, like a bikini, where my male status would be pretty obvious.

But, that's just me.

[Carolana]

I don't pass either and have limited my outings to night time with one exception and on rare occasions at that. It helps to be somewhat unrecognizable, though. I have been spotted on occasion and even discovered once and confronted while being somewhere I wasn't supposed to be. In all that I got away without ever having my identity found out. Whew! Hey, there are plenty of real girls who are not perfect either. The key is to be confident, self assured, and unapologetic. It goes a long way. Lurking in the shadows will send a message that something is amiss (no pun intended). But also in the case of we who are not naturally feminine looking, it doesn't hurt to do whatever tricks one can come up with to look as natural as possible in en femme if going out somewhere.

[Karen62]

Lurking in the shadows will send a message that something is amiss (no pun intended).

Hey, don't apologize! That's a good pun. :laughing:

[Lynn Marie]

Well Michele, I'm glad you're comfortable in a dress with a guy's head sticking out the top. There's a pretty vocal contingent on this forum who push this agenda for all its worth. I no longer dress at home, alone, hidden from view, only going out in the dark. I dress to go out and socialize with fabulous CD girlfriends who embrace the classy feminine mystique in all its forms and glory. Some of us may occasionally "pass", and some of us don't, but it is not for lack of putting forth the effort. I'm 6'6" in heels but I still look good and take a fabulous picture of a tall, well dressed, older, lady with big hands, square jaw, and a deep voice. We don't hide our beauty on the inside and the outside too.

[Katey888]

Michele - I am like you in not sharing this side of me with family and friends - although I believe I have made some great friends amongst our community by sharing here, which in some ways is a better place to 'fit in'.

I don't think you'll ever have an end to this debate about 'how' to look - no more than GGs will ever totally agree on fashion or any particular style - so some of us will have to ultimately agree to disagree... but I think it also depends on your motivation and how this passion grips you... :thinking:

For those of us at the TS end of the rainbow, passing is clearly desirable as it truly reflects the persona beneath the clothes - hopefully none here would be unhappy with that... The rest of us though, are a big muddle... different views, values, circumstances, environments... These all lead to varying interpretations of what is 'right' for us as individuals and how we feel about making that presentation. I have the deepest respect for folks here like Jason and others who are prepared to dress the way they want to with no pretense as to their genetic origins - but I could never do that myself or would want to... it would scare me witless! But because I think I can pursue 'passing' (at a distance and not under close scrutiny), I am able to work on that look... But I don't go out at all, other than special events and 'safe' CD venues, so I'm not trying to blend in the muggle world either - just achieve a look that satisfies me for how I feel and what I want to do.

Like any population, I think there are some here who like to 'flash' their passability credentials because they can - and there are some subtle encouragements about "getting out and owning it"... :facepalm: I disagree with that perspective. It's easier for someone who has some natural advantages and who lives in a more tolerant environment to posture on that soapbox - but it's not for everyone; and it's not necessary; but I understand it's also human nature to push envelopes... just let folk push their own envelopes at their own pace... :)

I am still selling old copies of "The Crossdressers Rulebook - 2014 Edition" for the New Year sale price of only $250 including international shipping... If anyone is silly enough to send me the funds via PayPal I'll be happy to confirm you won't see me for dust... :lol:

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Hi Michele,

Well we are a diverse group and that is putting it mildly. I truly believe there is not right or wrong way to dress/present only "your way". The key is not so much to "be perfect" for the world around you (an unachievable aim for anyone) but to "be perfect" for you. If you are comfortable in how you present then it truly won't matter what others think. I am one who goes mainstream . . . I do not pass on scrutiny but then again, it is not about passing for me, it is about being me. Once you find your own comfort level, that is a good place to be.

BTW . . . I'll compete with Katey. Copies of the 2014 Rule Book going for $175 (Cdn) free shipping :) . . . Ah the excitement of a capitalistic society.

Hugs

Isha

[Teresa]

Michele,
This may appear a cruel statement but there are some very ugly women in the World, they have no choice but to get on with life ! What carries them through is what's inside, they are still people who are accepted into the community ! So why should we make a big thing of going out into the World and worry about acceptance ? At least we have the choice of reverting back to drab ! I'm as guilty of these thoughts as many of us ! What are we frightened of as not passing as ? How are expecting the public to react ? We really should register no reaction at all, unless we've gone OTT with our looks !

Katey knowing you you'll probably cross out 2014 and write in 2015 on the rule books and then double the price, blaming it on inflation !

[Claire Cook]

This seems like a good time to pull out the Joe E. Brown line from Some Like it Hot .... "Nobody's perfect". While some of us are blessed with attributes that (we think) make it easier to appear as a woman, we have to own the fact that we'll all at some point be "read". So what? As others have said, it's really our comfort -- and confidence -- in being ourselves that is the bottom line. And hopefully that will make others more comfortable with us. When I'm out and about en femme, I'm always trying to present as female -- wig, earrings, appropriate padding and light makeup (even Dolly Parton doesn't go out the door without these -- well, she doesn't need the padding...) -- and dress as other women do. Just adds to my comfort zone, and hopefully those I interact with.

BTW, whoever screamed "man in a skirt!" definitely did NOT pass!

[Southern Michele]

Some interesting discussion. Thanks to all the ladies on here that provide inspiration. Without names, several geographic location come to mind: Quebec, Toronto, Maine, Austin TX, New York and even a crazy pool table that keeps popping up in the mid-west.

[JayeLefaye]

I'm a big believer in comfort, in what I wear, in what I do, and in what I encourage others to do. There's a time for bravery, and a time for discretion. It's all about finding a comfort level, although as I get older, I find that my internal comfort level is pretty high, and if I "go out", anyone else's comfort level is their problem, not mine.

If I'm not going out to work, then it's usually either full-femme, or mix and match, but not androgynous. Full-femme, and nobody even seems to blink, not that I pass, just that they don't seem to care. Mix & match, I get mostly positive reactions...Actually, I've only ever gotten positive reactions. If anyone was snarky, it was out of earshot. My suspicion, is when it's mix & match(for instance, leggings, thigh length sweater and cool boots, triple ear piercing dangly earrings and a stylish cap), my suspicion is that I'm taken for a rather colorful gay guy and usually am asked about the color of my nails, or where'd I get the earrings, boots, etc.

I'm not "out" to my family, but that's only because my remaining sister and brother live 800 miles away, in different directions, and I'd rather not have "that" conversation over the phone. I will probably never come out to my wife's family. They are also 800 miles away, and we only see them once every other year.

I can be as cowardly as the next person, although I prefer the term discreet....But I've found, even before I was CDing in public, that the phrase "wear it like you mean it" has served me very well...I guess "own it" might be a more modern term...And if anyone can't "get out", for whatever reason, then enjoy yourselves as often as you can in whatever manner you can, as often as you can, and please, don't ever apologize to me!

Jaye

P.S...For your records. Raleigh:-)

[kimdl93]

As others have observed, we are a diverse group. There is no one size or circumstance that fits all.

I fall towards the TS end of this spectrum. Living and going out en femme is important to me as a way of being part of the real world. As such, I do the best I can to be seen as a woman, within the limits of my ability. And that is far from perfection in any sense. But even at home, even when I'm alone, I do try to look my best. I am uncomfortable with a mixed/androgynous presentation because it isn't who I am.

[Maria 60]

I to no where close to passing. This summer my fem side came on strong and I wanted to go out during the day. My wife GOD bless her for her patients and she wanted to see me happy and worked with me to try to make me pass even a bit. I didn't want to go in public places, I just wanted to go driving around and maybe go get a coffee at a drive threw coffee shop. With her help she found a wig that hid a lot of my male features of my face and the proper outfit. When I walked out that door, she told me I was no beauty queen but thought I looked convincing. I couldn't believe the great job she did with me, and with that I went out two times during the day and it felt great. It was little pleasures and even though when I looked in the mirror I still seen a man wearing a wig, but my legs did get lots of attention from vehicles high enough to see in my car, and anyone who did see my face didn't take out a torch and tried to burn me. You could say I just tried to go as far as my male self allowed me to. And a big thanks to my wife for making even that little step a realty, and of course if you think I was totally happy with that, guess again, we always want more.

[CarlaWestin]

My take on this is,

I don't need to fit in to be perfect.

I do the best I can to make myself happy. In DADT, you are basically labeled as the square peg no matter what the truth is.

[Stephanielawrence]

For most of us I think that perfection = passing! I know a lot of us feel tha way. Also the fact that some of us do not get to do this often means that we try harder to get the complete experience when we can!

[jjjjohanne]

When I realized that I do not have to try to look like a woman to wear the clothes I love, I was freed. I have never cared about being a girl. I just want to wear these delightful clothes. I occasionally go out in public as a man in a skirt, heels, etc. Society treats me just fine. I am rather selective about where I go...

[KlaireLarnia]

When I realized that I do not have to try to look like a woman to wear the clothes I love, I was freed. I have never cared about being a girl. I just want to wear these delightful clothes.

Couldn't have said it better.

[Eryn]

...But what if you could simply do what you want and not have self imposed pressure to "go out" or worry about the holy grail of passing if you went to the store or where you would have go if nature calls?....

The problem is that going out is exactly what I *want* to do. I do dress androgynously around the house but I love the social aspects of going out and enjoying life on the other side of the fence. It's not just being dressed in the clothes, it's doing all the fun things we do while presenting as I desire.

I'm not perfect and my passability is questionable. I'm 6'2" and no amount of makeup will reshape my face. Still, I put such worries aside and head out the door to have fun. I'm always accepted as I present and I can't recall any negative experience worse than being misgendered a time or two.

[Nancy Sue]

I have been reading several threads about going out, how to dress and act, as I want to do it. Though I have been dressing in the closet for 50 years, I have not ever dressed outside the house until this past year or so. And only a few times, mostly while driving someplace, at night. Realizing that I can go out, and find out who I am, has been very recent, and very freeing, though also very scary. I did get a make-over once, a year ago, and when I looked in the mirror realized I was gorgeous! But I also realized there was so much stuff on my face I might never go that far again. In looking at the GGs I know, and don't know, around me, I realize that most of them are not gorgeous, or even pretty, but just average looking. Some are definitely below average looking. But whatever their looks if they smile, and are happy, and kind, people like them and they get along. They don't wear an eighth inch of cake on their face (unless they are hiding acne), and most don't wear much, if any, make-up. A little touch of something on the face, maybe, perhaps a splash of rouge on the cheeks, maybe, perhaps eye liner, eyebrow pencil or mascara on lashes, maybe, and lipstick, maybe. So I figure if I am dressed as they are, in a dress, skirt, jeans or shorts, consistent with the weather, time and place, my age and shape, same as women do, I would fit in and just look normal to most people - unless I am doing something odd, like acting like I am hiding or sneaking trying to be unseen. When I am en drab I see people sometimes notice you, or someone else, and sometimes they just look past you or through you - because they are involved with their own lives much more than a passing stranger. So here is to being me, a "normal" lady. Lets see how that goes.

[Krisi]

Nobody is "perfect" but some of us try harder than others. And of course, we start from different places.

Just do whatever satisfies you but realize that others may be critical of your choices. That's life.

[ophelia]

A certain amount of makeup is required to force our maleness into retreat. The goal is to find the minimum.

[ophelia]

Not perfect indeed. Despite some important progress in society's views of LGBTCD there is still some danger out there, especially in small towns. I've occasionally taken advantage of spa deals in smaller locales, but the number of pickup trucks you see with those horrible scrotae hanging from trailer hitches in those quaint towns tells me that I have to appear as passable as possible at all times. I can afford crossdressing, but I can't afford restorative dentistry.

[Jean 103]

Perfect and fit in? They sometimes can come together at the same time. I am referring to passing or just acceptance. I do live in CA, but still I go places that are more liking to be accepting of me. You will not find me at a tractor pull or monster truck event. On the other hand I could be seen at the beach. I have gotten a SA that’s maybe a little shocked or uneasy, I am just polite. Every time it’s been when I was wearing a skirt, but as I do that a lot I can’t say it for sure was that. I look at it the way any other old lady looks at it, it’s not my problem it’s theirs or hey I am old I can do as I want. The latter is my wife’s attitude. Just being Jean

[Sarah Doepner]

Who said we needed to be perfect? I want that person to step forward so we can have a corrective interview. What we need is to be happy, comfortable and satisfied. If you can get there knowing you have a pair of lacy underwear hidden in a box under the stairs, great. If it takes a full walk-in closet, a dozen wigs, a mountain of cosmetics and 4 hours in front of the vanity before you go out for a big night with a dozen other CDs to get there, fine. If it isn't going to happen until you've gone the full medical route, I'm happy for you. It's not about other people, it's about us, our expectations as individuals and being able to move forward in meeting those desires without hurting anyone else.

[Jacqueline Vivaldi]

Obviously, some of us are totally passable and others are totally not. If we are not, I suggest that it is a worthwhile long term goal to trim our bodies and re-shape it, learn make-up and posture, and walk and how to dress with class and enjoy the dress air. This will not happen in a few years and we should go out in public in the meantime. No one is paying attention in normal public places. However, it is so natural and elating if you can go anywhere and feel that you fit in as a female.

[MsVal]

I am aligned with those that strive to blend, to become a part of the mass of nameless, faceless women that we see every day, but we don't really see them. We look right through them because they don't stand out in any way. I want to simply enjoy my life, going about my day's tasks, feeling good about myself.

I have good cause to believe that I will never "pass", but that has never been a concern. I never sought the center of attention.

It's like when I used to hang out with a bunch of folks that restored antique cars. Some of their cars were very, very nice, and some were actually better than new. Some cars, like mine, could be described as "better than worn out", and that was okay with me.

Best wishes
MsVal

[KlaireLarnia]

A certain amount of makeup is required to force our maleness into retreat. The goal is to find the minimum.

I would say the goal is actually not the need any at all. To be accepted for who we are and how we dress - no hiding or disguising needed at all. Why force your maleness into retreat when it can co-exist quite happily with who you are?

[Lorileah]

Fascinating concept. And tell me now, how are you working toward that? Do you go out and not try and blend? Do you do something to make society reconsider us? You see the fantasy is all well and good except so few here really put ANY effort in to getting society to change