Is it the same?

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I recently suggested to someone contemplating outing himself as a CD to his wife that he should put himself in her shoes, by asking himself how he'd feel if she announced that for the last 10 years of their marriage she'd secretly been wearing a false beard, learning to speak in a gruff voice, wearing baggy jeans and a lumberjack shirt, and hanging out with a bunch of like-minded FTM friends, talking about cars, drinking a lot of cheap beer, and that from now on she'd quite like to do this at least twice a week, plus start coming to bed in that day's socks and jockey shorts.

Doesn't sound that great, does it?

You're probably thinking, "But I look better en femme than I do in drab, and I'm a softer, more emotionally responsive person when I'm 'Jane'; it's not the same thing at all."

So is it the same, or isn't it?

***

PS following several comments above- I'm not trying to discourage anyone from outing themselves to their SO, but trying to give them perspective on how it might feel to be the person receiving the news. For some it comes as a huge and deeply unpleasant shock, and I made the ftm analogy to try to illustrate the possible impact in terms a guy could relate to.

[bridget thronton]

I she chooses to do the ftm thing she does - will not change how I feel toward my spouse

[NicoleScott]

Yes, it's the same. If anybody would/could/should understand and accept such a woman's behaviors, it's us (MtF CDers).

[charlenesomeone]

That might be quite the "role reversal ". Would depend on both parties and how
strong the relationship is.

[Lorileah]

I recently suggested to someone contemplating outing himself as a CD to his wife that he should put himself in her shoes, by asking himself how he'd feel if she announced that for the last 10 years of their marriage she'd secretly been wearing a false beard...

So is it the same, or isn't it?

No it isn't the same. But this kind of logic comes up frequently. And in a perfect world, we as TGs would say "OK". But I am wondering what exactly the point is, maybe I misunderstood it. You are saying "Hey don't tell because if your wife told you she was a T you wouldn't like it would you?" Let's go from a different angle. This isn't about hurt feelings. It is about trust. Yeah, she may not like it anymore than you would if she was FtM. But that is a minor point. In fact it is an opposite point. If you don't like her crossdressing, wouldn't you rather have the option of saying so instead of finding out on your own later?


Doesn't sound that great, does it? actually in my world it wouldn't matter. I love the whole person not what he/she wears. I know you were going for don't be hypocritical here but you really reinforced that we are. Do we prefer to be lied to just to save our feelings now over being hurt later?

[DonnaT]

It's not the same because you are not the same person as your wife.

Everyone has their own reactions, and yours could be exactly opposite of hers.

[NicoleScott]

Like Lorileah, I may have misunderstood the question. Nikki, what is "it" that you are asking about? The revelation? Or that MtF is the same as FtM crossdressing?
In the first sentence, it sounds like you are trying to talk the CDer out of revealing to his wife. I'm not a "you must tell" advocate, but rather leave telling up to that person, who has a lot more pertinent information than the rest of us. So if he decided to tell her, why talk him out of it? Except that you wouldn't want to have such a bomb dropped on you?

[Katey888]

I don't think it's the same, Niks... I get what you mean, and Lori's right that this perspective comes up regularly...

Extensive reading here and on the interwebs seems to confirm that MtF CDers vastly outnumber FtMs... If one accepts that - amongst the myriad of motivations we seem to have here - the overriding reason is something related to transgenderism, it seems reasonable to assume that this does not affect women the same way and degree it does men... That fact alone says to me that women (in general) are therefore less likely to understand why we would be gripped by something so inexplicable...

And maybe it doesn't have anything to do with how good (or bad,,, ;)) we look in drag, but the fact that we (TS excluded) are simply not as authentic in drag... Throw in the heavy predominance of sex :eek: and it's relationship to CDing (I'm not talking about this site's perspective - more the dozens or 100s of others that major in naughty stuff...) and the stereotypical male CDer is probably not a particularly attractive proposition... unless you fancy a walk on the wild side - in heels...

I doubt that I can be as saintly as many here - but I will be honest: I would totally hate for my wife to exhibit the same gender transposition that I obviously enjoy pursuing... I don't know that I could honestly cope with something like that, which is probably another thing that contributes to the very large locks on my closet door (as far as my wife and family is concerned..) and why I will never tell her - because if she ran screaming for the hills I could understand why... :)

Katey x

[prettytoes]

I'd just be glad that she didn't decide to let her leg and underarm hair grow out! I think that would just gross me out way too much.

[MarinaSweden]

This is a very interesting and difficult question.

I would like to wear a dress at home. Well my wife goes around in ordinary pants. 100 years ago that would not have been possible.
I would like to sleep in a nightgown. Well, my wife sleeps in a cotton pyjamas.

If she suddenly would tell me she likes to drink beer and talk cars or even going to see ice hockey games, I'd say finally, we have more things in common.

What would be the equivalent to a false beard? A bra and false breast? Maybe. But if she really would like to wear a false beard, she could very well do it from time to time. There is a difference though. I don't use false breast and my bra is not visible when I have clothes on which I always have.

The real deal breaker for me is when it is time for sex. I would not like her to wear false beard then. But then, I do not put on a bra at such a time either. At that time I want her naked or with very sexy feminine lingerie. She wants me naked which is ok for me. CD is not a sexual thing for me.

But still, many of the things women can't stand us doing are things that they already are doing themselves. Most of the time they wear clothes that are, or rather, were typical male clothes. Trousers, sweaters and sneakers. Oridnary socks or whatever. They act like men were exclusively alowed to do a 100 years ago. But they will not accept us going in to female territory, though men have accepted them to move in to male territory during the last century.

At times, I get a bit bitter about this situation, but then at the same time I try to understand the womens point of view. I am sure men had a tough time accepting the role for women changing 50-100 years ago. So it could be tough for them now. But that is really no excuse not to accept change.
Or?
Again, sorry if my english isn't 100% hope you can understand my point anyway.

[Marcelle]

Hi Nikki,

I too am a bit confused as to what question you are asking but I will respond as best I can.

When it comes to expressing "gender variance" (i.e., fake beard, clothing and stereotypical male behavior) it is the same as what we (TG/CD MtF) do . . . gender variance. Would I be excited if my wife came to me and told me this . . . well :thinking: . . . given that I am a MtF gender variant it would be quite hypocritical for me to say "No way dear". If I was not MtF gender variant, I would like to think I would take the same road as my lovely wife and support her as she supports me. But hindsight is 20/20 and to be honest, even being gender variant myself, I would still have the "WTF moment" :eek: but would learn to accept it as she has learned to accept Isha. When it comes to the bedroom aspect thought . . . well she does wear boxers (women's variant) as sleepwear (finds them more comfortable) but I would not accept gender variance in our bed as that is our time and we both agree that there is only one lady in the bedroom and it isn't Isha . . . so there would be only one man in the bedroom and it would not be her. :)

Now if you are talking about should she tell me I am going to have to suspend my reality for a moment. So, let's say I was not TG and my wife was and she was spending a couple of days a week dressing up as a dude and hanging with other FtM dudes watching MMA fights, spitting on the ground and scratching her fake (well you know :battingeyelashes:). If she put it away and went on being a loving and supportive partner, I would be none the wiser. If she was spending inordinate amounts of money on dude stuff, hiding it, ignoring our relationship or just spent a lot of time depressed and upset . . . then that would most likely signal something is wrong with her and I would ask her about it. So, now let's say after 20 plus years of marriage, the cat is out of the bag, would I feel betrayed? Frankly "no". Now I know many here are going to say, "Yes but Isha, we all know your take on this so your opinion is biased". I don't know perhaps you are right but I want to point something out. If my wife and I had a loving relationship for 20 plus years and I found out the entire time she was engaging in FtM CDing would I be a bit shocked and confused? :eek: :confused: Darn right I would but then again how you could not help but be so. Would that negate 20 plus years of her being wonderful, loving, supporting wife? Not even for a second. While I might not get it at a fundamental level, I would like to think that I would be more concerned as to why she felt a need to hide it (not because she was being dishonest) but because she needed my support to help her be who she needed to be and she was afraid to ask me for it. That is the strength of love . . . one variant should not all of a sudden paint your partner with a "dishonest liar, liar pants on fire . . . I can never trust you again" moniker IMHO.

So is it the same? In my opinion, regardless of gender variance MtF/FtM, if you cannot accept your spouse for who he/she is, then no harm no foul and walk your separate path. However it does not make them a liar or dishonest person anymore that it makes you a bad person for walking away.

Hugs

Isha

[scarletcd]

Personally if my partner came out and said that to me I would still love her all the same. I would definitely be shocked but I would support her. We would just have to swap wardrobes or something haha.

[kimdl93]

Yeah this one come around now and then. I guess the idea is to suggest we might be hypocritical if presented with the reverse situation. Normally I avoid responding to hypothetical situations, but this one, unlike magic cures or other what ifs could in some way happen. This would not be a problem for me. If my wife suddenly was packing, dressing as a male and otherwise attempting to present in a more masculine manner, I wouldn't have any objection... So long as the her/his personality remained fundamentally the same. In the end we love the consciousness...not the outer trappings. And besides, it could be kinda fun to fully exchange our former roles;)

[Sarasometimes]

I agree with Katey888's last paragraph and Isha made good points about not focusing in on the secret now revealed aspect. Although some may say not telling is deceitful and dishonest I think it can also be an honest effort to protect the love of your life from a huge source of pain.
My first reaction to the hypothetical was "Now I need to keep a secret and hope her activity is not discovered (Unless of course she wants to be known by this to all). I didn't read that in the OP.

I also think that if we are honest, most of us would be embarrassed to tell our guy friends that our wives, with our blessing dress up and go out as men and smoke cigars, lift weights...

[Jean 103]

If you’re tired of reading about people’s lives don’t read. This is life. The world changes, people change, well maybe not the core of the person, which in why I believe we/I continue to love our SOs. Wanting to hold things together, not hurt feeling, continue obligations, is a balancing act that can come crashing down on your head. This leaves you trying to pick up the pieces. Not everyone is InTouch with who they are or know where they will be in thirty years, I don’t/didn’t. Confused Jean

[sometimes_miss]

I recently suggested to someone contemplating outing himself as a CD to his wife that he should put himself in her shoes<snip>.
Problem is, we understand what it's all about, because we live with it every day. So I think few of us would have any problem if our SO's wanted to dress up and behave like guys on occasion. Our SO's suddenly have to deal with something that turns their world upside down, and upsets the most important thing about us that they fell in love with. There's simply no way for us to imagine anything that would change our view of our SO as much as what happens when we come out to them as not being the 'all masculine' person they were sexually attracted to and fell in love with. It throws our entire relationship into question in their mind, as they suddenly must question what it is that they were attracted to, and also dealing with the fact that they greatly misinterpreted who they believed we are; then add to the feeling of being deceived, and you have a very potentially explosive situation. Which is why so many marriages don't survive when one discloses that they've never really been what the other believed they were.

[lynda]

i for one would have a tuff time accepping my wife as a man . if she said its just role playing mebbe . but if i had to give up that sweet soft women replaced by a phudo man i could not do it . and really i think a lot of us could not. but we expect our wifes just to let the man they marreied or the bf they live to just die and be replaced by this make beleave girl. with the passing of my wife i rellize all the womens cloths in the world can not come close to the feel touch ,smell of what my wife gave to me.LOVE.LOVE.LOVE lynda signing off hugs

[Rhian]

I honestly wouldn't mind if I was seeing someone and they told me that they liked to dress as a man. providing that it wasn't full time and she still spent time as a woman. I'd still want see her in sexy undies in the bedroom which is why if I ever was in a relationship I would make plenty of time for my male identity/ If she had fantasies in the bedroom then so be it, peoples sex lives should be about indulging in each others fantasises and ultimately when you're role playing you are just acting.

On a note of slight difference I go for very girly girls and anu girls who goes for me isn't going for a macho-man. So it would be a far bigger transformation for any partner to start behaving like a man, than it would me a woman.

[PaulaQ]

asking himself how he'd feel if she announced that for the last 10 years of their marriage she'd secretly been wearing a false beard, learning to speak in a gruff voice, wearing baggy jeans and a lumberjack shirt, and hanging out with a bunch of like-minded FTM friends, talking about cars, drinking a lot of cheap beer, and that from now on she'd quite like to do this at least twice a week, plus start coming to bed in that day's socks and jockey shorts.

Ironically enough, this is almost the only way my marriage could've worked out without divorce.

I know men who've stayed married to their FtM spouse. If you love someone only for their plumbing, do you really love them at all?

[MarinaSweden]

I hope it is allowed to reply twice in the same thread. But as I mentioned before, this is both important and interesting to discuss.

I would still argue that women already dress in clothes that not to long ago were only for men. And that goes for womens behaviour as well. I remember the wonderful tv-series "Dallas". I loved it. When Pamela Ewing wanted to start working, it was considered a big deal. Bobby Ewing who was considered a "good progressive guy" could hardly accept it. Now I do realize it is only TV but TV reflects the society at most times. Ok, in Sweden during the 70's it wasn't uncommon, but apparantely in Texas. And in the 50's and 60's it was here in Sweden too.
Women play sports today. They work full time. They have tatoos. They basically can do wheterver they want to do. Men in general already accept it. I do to no question about it.

The big difference the way I see it is my and our compulsary NEED to dress. But is it the need we have what women have a problem with? In that case it is not fair by any means. There are people that need to wash their hands five times an hour. Some need to pass the street three times every time they need to pass the street. Is it ok to not be understanding? If it is me wearing a dress that is upsetting (let's say I could just stop), again, they already dress and act in so many ways as men.

[Lorileah]

I would still argue that women already dress in clothes that not to long ago were only for men. They aren't really. They are different than what was worn 70 years ago maybe but they aren't dressing like men. Even the Annie Hall look was very feminized. This argument might hold water IF the CDs here wore say something that was masculinized feminine. Not a cute skirt but a skirt more in line with how a man is built.
When Pamela Ewing wanted to start working, it was considered a big deal. Bobby Ewing who was considered a "good progressive guy" could hardly accept it. Now I do realize it is only TV but TV reflects the society at most times. it was not what society was doing even in the 70's. Most families had two people working full time. If you are learning aboput American culture form TV you will be shocked to come here.

Women play sports today. They work full time. They have tatoos. They basically can do wheterver they want to do. :thinking: and your point is? Shouldn't you do what you want to do as long as it doesn't hurt others? The analogies are really not pertinent. Women always played sports (You may remember a woman named Sonja Henie.) re tattoos really the realm of being a man? Many on women are more art than anything else.

I understand that men here try and logically say that "If the women can ....why can't we?" But you rarely get a post that really fits that. This is one but reversed...what would you do IF your wife (truly) crossdressed? Interesting that the sauce for the gander here isn't as good for the goose. And I like that some are honest in the "Nope, I couldn't handle it" world. We agree it is hypocritical but it is honest.

We get tired of the "They dress and act like men" argument. Like men OWN certain actions and clothing or whatever. We are people. There should not be an "ours and theirs". OK you don't like the woman you are with to wear whatever. Respect that she has the same right to not like what you wear. It is hard for me to side with the "NIMBY" people here because I love the person, not how they dress or act.

The big difference the way I see it is my and our compulsary NEED to dress. But is it the need we have what women have a problem with? In that case it is not fair by any means. There are people that need to wash their hands five times an hour. Some need to pass the street three times every time they need to pass the street. Is it ok to not be understanding? If it is me wearing a dress that is upsetting (let's say I could just stop), again, they already dress and act in so many ways as men.[/QUOTE]

[MarinaSweden]

I must admit I don't always manage to follow considering the language problem om my part.

I could argue further to what you are saying but maybe that would be pointless and to be honest a bit too difficult for me. But I would like to try with a few arguments.

the first statment, my point is that what is accepted for men AND women to wear is and has always been dependent on when in time we are. Did women in general, or even at all wear pants 100 years ago? I mean I might be wrong but I really don't think that they did. So pants would then have been a typical male thing to wear. Which women today can do without anyone thinking about it twice.
About the Dallas thing, it might not be correct but I grew up in a less fortunate suburb of Stockholm in the '70s. My mother did't have job till I was about well, 15 maybe. I had a couple of friends who did have mothers that had a job but they were single mothers. There were problably a couple of others too that i don't remember. But the standards at the time was that women would be at home taking care of their children.

About the sports thing. No women took part in any Olympic games for the 4-5 first times. 1992, 35 countries did not have any women participating. So it is obvious to me that the standards are changing over time. I don't say it didn't happen even 100 years ago, but I am sure one or two men was using womens clothes then too.

But mostly I would like to object to "Like men OWN certain actions and clothing" I mean that is the whole point. I don't beleive men OR women have the right to reserve anything only for one or the other. I have certainly never expressed that.

Well lastly, what more crossdressing could my wife do than what she already are doing? Yes she could put on a false beard. Stop shaving her legs. What else? In bed, I like to see her naked or in sexy lingerie, but then again, I don't go to bet wearing a nightgown if she is at home.

[Becky64]

It's not the same but we need to make her know she is more important then our compulsion. It really can be quite a selfish thing. Would you be willing to stop for her benefit and is she willing to not ask you to stop? Kinda catch 22.

[Teresa]

Nikki,
The situation I'm finding more annoying is the total one sidedness we find ourselves in ! Over the years we possibly contribute the most into setting up the family home, I personally extended two homes to provide a better life style for the family and yet we have little say in the lifestyle we ask for to help us with our CDing ! Many of us stay loyal to the family we do our best to be good husbands, fathers and now a grandfather and yet we get treated like and let ourselves be treated like something that crawled out of the gutter! At the same time few of us would criticize our wives lifestyle because we still respect them even though the don't always return the same level of thought and respect !
I've now made it clear that the situation is going to change, Cding is not my choice but if I have to accept it and live with it I'm not prepared to hide behind closed doors and feel guilty about it ! I can't change now but my wife will have to start to accept changes if she values me enough as a partner !

[StephanieinSecret]

Honestly...

...sounds hot :D

My dressing is usually sexual, so if my theoretical wife wanted be be a man in bed, I would be okay with that too. However, I get the impression that I'm a lot more fluid in my attractions than most people. If I had a partner that wanted to do role reversal that would be ideal in terms of dressing.

[Barbara Jo]

If I may.....

It seems that those who say the would not be alarmed or dismayed by "finding out" about their wife..... are already a CD or are TS leaning.

I believe that the question the OP posted was intended to be posed to a husband/SO who had no CD/TS connections prior to him finding out about their wife.
In this situation, I think that the reactions/answers would be quite different. :)