Pretty Upset Right Now

[Persephone]

I'm pretty consistently upbeat most of the time, I guess some around here may even consider me a Pollyanna. But I'm not feeling that way right now.

A number of months ago my GP gave me "the letter" that allowed me to legally change my name and gender, along with a referral to an endo. My incredibly supportive spouse of 47 years was looped into all of this. She had no problem with me doing the name and gender change, even came to court with me. She attended all of the appointments with the endo and said I could go ahead with HRT on a "trial basis" for six months.

However, after about a month she suddenly said she was uncomfortable with me being on "a medication I didn't need." Meanwhile, I'd found that the medication really worked, pretty much eliminating GD and making me feel better than I had in my entire life.

It couldn't be any drop in libido because, well, she really hasn't been making any use of those organs in some time.

So we found a nearby "gender therapist," a retired academic with a considerable body of published transgender work, and went to six sessions with him. Frankly, I felt that he was mostly projecting his own feelings onto the situation (he recently found out he had prostate cancer) and did very little to smooth our waters. He agreed with my spouse on everything, was very hard on me, and, I felt, really wasn't even listening to me.

After about six sessions my spouse agreed to try someone else. We had one meeting with the new therapist about a month ago and are coming up on a second meeting this week.

Meanwhile, my spouse and I have been doing what I thought was really well. We seemed very comfortable with each other, lots of hugs and cuddling, lots of platonic romance in our lives. It really seemed like life was going great.

So a few minutes ago I asked her what she thought we would do at the appointment. Blam! Turns out things haven't changed one bit! She is still not happy, cannot understand how much HRT has made me feel better, and is only tolerating it because she promised me she'd give me a few more months, and says giving up HRT is all she wants.

For me that's like a prison sentence! For the first time in my life I've found out what it is like to be free and now she wants me back in testosterone Hell.

It was like being whacked totally out of left field. Life had seemed so good again, but nope, it is just back in the toilet.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Frances]

She does not have any real power over your transition.

[Leah Lynn]

Barbara, I can do little but send you moral support and prayers. I cannot imagine what I would be like if I had to give up hrt. The way I feel now, I'd probably be suicidal. I pray that she will change her mind and allow you the peace and freedom of being whole.

Hugs,

Leah

[Kate T]

Persephone

I will firstly say that your generally cheery disposition on these forums is greatly appreciated by myself and your considerable optimism is something I think we all can learn from.

Secondly I am sorry for your troubles at the moment. You are clearly a caring and loving person and I know this would be troubling you deeply.

For what it is worth here are my thoughts with respect to your concerns:
1. Clearly your wife does not have any fears regarding social / what other people think. Her support and clear acceptance of name and gender change on your licence is evidence enough even without your long history of being out and about so to speak.
2. You have stated yourself that sexual interaction appears to be a minor player if at all in your situation based on your recent history of intimacy. This would be consistent also with the apparent tendency for older couples with strong non physical pair bonding to be less likely to be affected by the physical changes associated with HRT.
3. You seem to have picked out a key phrase, or at least the phrase that seemed key to you of "a medication I didn't need". Personally I agree with you, I think this seems to be the key.

Can I address point 3 more deeply. For all intents and purposes you have already transitioned to living as a woman. You have changed your name, gender markers fundamental social documents, you socialise heavily if not principally as a woman. I'm not sure about your work situation but I am guessing you either work as a woman or are retired. To your wife you already are a woman.

So why does your wife have a problem with HRT? To me it seems that she does not understand the underlying gender dysphoria that you feel. Honestly, that is not that surprising. I doubt many people who are not GD / TG / TS do. The idea that your brain and your concept of your own gender is constantly fighting against your physiology is not an easy one to explain to oneself, let alone anyone else. Hence her lack of understanding about wanting to change your physiology to match your gender. She basically sees HRT as unnecessary at best and risky to your health at worst because she cannot see the underlying problem it is dealing with.

I do not know how to resolve this. I think the best pathway forward is to try and get her to understand the truly foundational nature of gender dysphoria. Clearly your wife loves you deeply, I think with information she may come to understand how important HRT is to you. I think though you may need to go back to basics with her though and somehow try and explain gender dysphoria at it's fundamental root level.

Best wishes

[PretzelGirl]

Barbara, I am sorry you are at this point. I hope continued discussion will calm the waters. Letting things take time to work through is always a good path.

[Karen62]

Persephone,

I am struck by the contrast of your wife's support for your name and gender change on official documents yet her sudden lack of support for your HRT meds. I am going to infer that, given a marriage of 47 years, you and your wife are older than me. I assume your wife already went through menopause -- did she take estrogen to help relieve symptom relief? Was she taken off of it (or did she know someone else who was) due to fears of breast cancer, liver damage, or other possible medical complications? Might she be projecting her fear of hormone medications for instigating health problems onto you? Might that explain the comment about a "medication you don't need"? I hope I am not out of line here, but I wonder if she is actually just worried about you and your long-term health rather than your transition and that is the cause for her unexpected change of heart on your use of HRT meds.

Alternatively, could she be afraid of losing something in her life if you continue in your transition (such as her identity, her self-image, her self-esteem, or your love)? Identifying what that something is might help you get to the core of her new objection. I'm trying to look at the world while standing in her place. Her change of heart seems likely the result of some fear or worry. Carefully, empathetically, and lovingly ask her about her feelings on this and you might find you can address them in a way that works out for both of you.

I wish you all the best in working through this issue. All of us here know all too well that life is not easy, and unexpected obstacles are always the most frustrating (the expected obstacles are often bad enough!).

All the best to you and your wife, my dear.

Karen

[Eringirl]

Hi Barbara: I admit that I read your post earlier and it really struck me, to the point I couldn't comment coherently. Others have commented on other aspects of your narrative. But the one part that struck me was the statement about being back in testosterone hell. Sounds much like my wife who wants nothing to do with this. I am amazed at how much power I cede to my wife. I know that this does impact more people than just us, but forcing you to stop HRT? Our lives, our bodies. It is better than the alternative (severe depression or worse) isn't it?

Sending you positive vibs....

Erin

[Sandra]

Your wife can't understand how you would be feeling if you stopped the HRT if she did then she would be ok with you continuing to take it I think some long hard honest discussions are needed. It is your body and it is up to you to decide what you do with it, she should be thankful that you have kept her in the loop and not kept things from her.

[PaulaQ]

It's not surprising, really that she is so against this. Look hon, physical changes - which HRT brings, are really where stuff gets real for people in our lives who've been happily living in denial all this time.

I hope she can come around, but if you had any other serious medical condition (to my mind serious GD is a condition that needs medical treatment), and your wife were dead set against treatment for some reason, would you even consider honoring her views about it? What if it were potentially life threatening to not seek treatment?

[Nigella]

... What if it were potentially life threatening to not seek treatment?

I know that this is stretching things a little, but there is enough personal experience on this forum to indicate that GD is potentially life threatening.

[charlenesomeone]

I am so sorry this just hit you the way it did. Hopefully you can talk it out and continue past the timeline.
Already lots of great advice here.
Comfort hug if its possible.

[kimdl93]

I understand your frustration and disappointment. You've made a good faith effort to explain the necessity of HRT for your well being and, thus far, your wife has not apparently grasped the concept. But she has adjusted to everything else. So there's some reason to hope that she'll come to terms with this as well.

[Dawn cd]

I don't understand her change of heart, unless there's a medical reason she believes the HRT would be wrong for you—but then, your endo would be the best judge of that. It sounds like she doesn't understand the emotional benefits of hormone therapy.

[Michelle.M]

I think we're skirting the issue. I suspect that now your wife sees things as becoming very real, irreversible and tangible. Even though she supported the name change and everything else up to this point, she has come to the moment when her own life will be drastically changed and this is a change she can't influence or modify.

It's not necessarily a control issue. Her life is changing drastically, and she's scared.

I think you already know how this will end. You'll be faced with two bad choices, and you'll have to decide which one is least objectionable. This is painful, and I'm feeling your pain. I'm so sorry.

[Rogina B]

Barbara,Your old "signature" that you borrowed from "Burn Notice" comes to mind. "If you truly care about me,then you will want what I want for myself"...I always have thought that is how you were doing your life.

[Nigella]

As Michelle has pointed out, this is now becoming more real, but it does not spell the end.


She is still not happy, cannot understand how much HRT has made me feel better, and is only tolerating it because she promised me she'd give me a few more months, and says giving up HRT is all she wants.


One point that may helpful, if you are able to, is to show her how different you will be without HRT. She seemed to be happy when the original therapist "sided" with her, is she still willing to go to the second of your sessions with this new therapist? Is this the only thing that she wants, or is there more underlying.

It is always difficult to offer any advice, based on what is posted, mainly because there are usually underlying currents that we don't know or you are not aware of.

There is hope, whilst she is willing to talk, but it needs both of you to ensure that both your views/needs/wants are in the pot, that is then a recipe for a successful outcome.

Wishing you all the best :hugs:

[S. Lisa Smith]

I'm sorry that you find yourself in this position, Barbara. I wish I could offer you something more than my support, but that's all I have. I don't think there is a good answer to this problem, but I hope that the new therapist will undo the damage that the first one did.

[MsMargaret]

I think we're skirting the issue. I suspect that now your wife sees things as becoming very real, irreversible and tangible. Even though she supported the name change and everything else up to this point, she has come to the moment when her own life will be drastically changed and this is a change she can't influence or modify.

It's not necessarily a control issue. Her life is changing drastically, and she's scared.


I have to concur. When I was 21, I was diagnosed with a serious chronic illness. It too my doctors several months to figure it out. Once it was diagnosed, it wasn't all that life-threatening, but I had to have surgery to address some problems that had occurred. I'd read up on the whole thing, and approached it rationally. I knew what had to happen. I had an extended stay in the hospital before the big surgery, while some other issues were treated. The night before the surgery, I started to have misgivings and spent an hour talking with one of my nurses about it. The next morning, they woke me up to sedate me for the surgery, and I panic'd. The reality had set in, and I wanted none of it. By that time, the sedation kicked in, and I was barely able to move. Everything went well with the surgery, btw.

Persephone, I think it's gotten to that same point of no return for your wife, and she's really having a hard time with it. I feel for you, I really do.

[Eryn]

One thing that might be a concern is the perceived health risks of HRT, which may be what she is expressing when she objects to "a medication you didn't need."

First, it is quite possible that you will be healthier on closely-monitored HRT than you would be without it. You have experienced positive mental health benefits from HRT and those can lead to physical health benefits. In that case, HRT is a medication that is beneficial to you.

Second, there is the matter of your own quality of life. A year spent in happiness is preferable to two spent unhappy. Many, when confronted with unhappiness and no prospect for improvement, choose life paths which certainly aren't what a spouse would want.

[Barbara Ella]

Persophene, you have consistently been a bright spot on the forum, and continually upbeat with great support from your wife. I wonder if your positive upbeat attitude might have successfully shielded your wife from the devastating effects of GD. Is she aware of your real need for HRT. Perhaps all she can see/think about right now are the physical changes.

I have been married for 44 years. for the past three years my wife has gone up and down with tremendous swings of acceptance and, support, and hatred of the situation. Only this past summer has she truly accepted the situation and begun openly discussing transgender issues and the idea of transsexuality. Right now she is supportive of my HRT. She pushed me into electrolysis...and in time I will forgive her for inflicting me with all that pain (large volume full facial removal). I am continually on edge not to push her as I know that, like your wife, she could just as easily drift back into questioning her acceptance. We are not physical anymore (the sex left the room a long long time ago because of her medications) but she no longer seems to want to cuddle and I attribute this to the boobs being a turn off to her.

I sympathize with you situation. I hope that education and bringing her a bit more into the dark side of living with GD might help some. You are in my thoughts dear.

Hugs,

Barbara

[Jonianne]

I'm so sorry, Barbara. Like as been mentioned, you have always been a bright, cheerful lady here. I just wish for your very best and hope things work out for you and yours. It still is very possible!

[Persephone]

I can't thank y'all enough for the consideration you have given my message, for the suggestions, thoughts, and prayers that you have offered.

I too will continue to pray and, for right now, will take it one day, maybe one hour, at a time.

Thank You,
Barbara

[Nicole Erin]

I am going to go with - she is worried about the health effects. There really isn't any other reason for concern.

Being married for 47 years yeah? Assuming you kids got married even at 16 (it could happen), that puts you two in your 60's.
Does she think you are going to try to start a new life without her? A lot of younger people get married and then decide to discover life without their partner but at this point it is a little late for that.

For real, what is she really afraid of?

[Jean 103]

Barbara, I have been thinking about your post since I read it the other day. ( i just got home) Health maybe one issue, but what about the fact that this is the death of the man she married. I understand that you present as a women, but you are still a man. This will change all that leaving her married to a Woman. It is a lot for anyone to take, just maybe she feels she can’t deal with it. Sorry Love Jean

[Starling]

I have not been able to get HRT. Still, I found that after SRS I felt much calmer and the sort of mental tension I used to get when it came to patient concentration, is much much less if at all present...

Beth, if you don't wish to answer this I understand, but I'm curious how one can have SRS without taking estrogen to replace the testosterone that is no longer being produced by the testes. Do you take testosterone?


...Look hon, physical changes - which HRT brings, are really where stuff gets real for people in our lives who've been happily living in denial all this time...

Amen, Paula.

Barbara, my wife told me that I could go off and dress as much as I wanted, but if I did anything to change my body, "we're done." Now aside from the fact that I don't want to go off and dress and dress and dress, I want to live as a woman, and I want to be with her; aside from that, as a result of my making my transition proposal to her, she can no longer tolerate even seeing me dressed, after years of somewhat uneasy acceptance. I hope your wife does not retrench, as mine did.

Perhaps your wife's concern really is your taking "a medication [you] didn't need," and perhaps it's more about what that medication does. The difference is crucial, obviously. Good luck, Barbara. I know sorting our love relationships is the most difficult aspect of transitioning for most of us who have been married for decades.

:) Lallie

[becky77]

I can't see that being an option for you, Hormones have had a massive impact on my mental wellbeing, I couldn't go back.
To her it's maybe physical or health to you it is your sanity or maybe she thinks your personality has changed?
I can only say i'm sorry to hear its gone sour, but I hope you can discuss it further to find out if there is a deeper reasoning, as it doesn't make sense considering the other stuff she seems ok with.

[PaulaQ]

I know that this is stretching things a little, but there is enough personal experience on this forum to indicate that GD is potentially life threatening.

That was my point, indeed. And they call us 'selfish...'

[Starling]

They call us selfish because they believe we are just being drama queens. I suppose it takes actual suicide to convince them it's real; but even then they mostly ascribe it to shame or clinical depression. We must face it--GD is a fanciful concept to a cis-gendered person, and the world is overwhelmingly populated with them.

:) Lallie

[Bria]

Barbara, I'm sorry to hear that you feel a little lost right now. Hopefully time will be on your side.

I'll remember you and your wife in my prayers.

Hugs, Bria