Is passing the ultimate goal?

[rach2893]

A few people I have spoken to have said that for them being accepted as a female by the world comes from mostly being able to blend in and therefore being able to pass unnoticed as a female is the goal.

One in particular said that when she first transitioned she thought she had to dress like a porn star to pass as female but as time went by and she became more comfortable with herself and realised that she could dress more 'causal' that she was accepted more as a woman than when she was trying to be ultra fem.

Do you think this rings true for most people or does it depend on what you personally like at the beginning of your transition into cross-living?

[heather ann martin]

Discovering I could pass in public as a woman was such a relief. It meant I could start living full time as the woman I'd longed to be all my life.

[Claire Cook]

I don't know about "passing", but I'm just more comfortable wearing what the other women around me are wearing. That means casual clothes -- slacks, jeans, capris or shorts, and nice tops. If I'm accepted as "me", either as a female or as a guy who seems very comfortable in the clothes he is wearing (and probably looks OK), that I guess is my "ultimate goal".

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Rach, I have been a Girl Watcher almost forever and one thing that I've noticed
is that GGs' come in all sizes, shapes & styles and by a CDs' standards some of them
don't seam to pass even that they are GGs'. :daydreaming:

[kimdl93]

I have never set passing as my goal. I just want to peaceably go about my business like anyone else. I dress to the setting and style I see other women wearing and hope to blend in reasonably well. If it's the mall, it's casual. A trip to dinner or the theatre, something more dressy.

Beyond that I just don't think that some people's ideas of feminine are particularly realistic. If one's definition of women comes from beer commercials, it's going to be a bit skewed and sexualized.

[Marcelle]

Hi there,

For me it is not about passing or being seen as a woman but being able to express who I am to the world. Do I pass? Not in a million years. Do I blend? Yes at least until someone comes in for a second look or I have to interact up close and personal. My day to day interactions in the Vanilla world bring me in close proximity to many people and when that happens the "blending" ceases and people see me for who I am . . . a guy. I am fine with that and that is my only true goal . . . to be able to do what I need to do on those days when I am dressed "en femme". If people see a woman passing by them and think no different, that is fine. However, if people see a guy and think "WTF" or "to each his/her own" . . . that is fine as well.

Hugs

Isha

[Teresa]

Rach,
As a young person living in London passing is going to be so different to someone of my age living out in the sticks !
You don't have much to lose having fun with your CDing ! At your age I had a GF who was into my CDing so we had a lot of fun ! The problem is I thought all women were accepting but few are, that's when life starts to get complicated !

[lynda]

hi, i just have to say claira and isha your smiling faces when i see both of you make me smile, i just try to bleand nowadays,im an older person now,and if i pass im flattered i dont think people look that close at me. i think they just think im an older women,not checking me out thats for the young babes .love hugs lynda

[Cheryl T]

I feel that at times I "pass" and others I don't. For the most part it's not about that for me, it's about being me and expressing who I really am. If I pass that's a bonus, but I'll take acceptance any day of the week.
I've found that as my confidence level in who I am and how I express that has grown so has my acceptance in the public eye. Luckily I've never had a bad experience and I have had a few wonderfully accepting ones.
I'm sure we would all love to "pass" 100% but few of us meet the criteria of the average woman. Many are too tall, or too heavy or just don't have feminine features. Whatever our personal "flaw" may be we just need to hold our head high, be confident, personable and unafraid.

[Rogina B]

Along with what everyone else has mentioned,I will add the "being comfortable in your own skin" gives off a vibe that leads to acceptance and sometimes inclusion.

[Mia27]

I feel very comfortable when i dress up, and almost more alive. I love it! But when I do dress up, I do want to look passable, I want to forget my guy side, and be as femme as possible! It isn't so much for sexual reasons, its more for the feel of escape and relaxation. I do not like my guy and girl sides to mix in any way, I never have. So I guess I would have to say yes, my ultimate goal would be to be as passable as I can:)

[Krisi]

If "passing" means looking like a woman to folks on the street (and to myself in the mirror of photos) then yes, passing is my goal. If I walk through the mall or down the street and people don't turn around for a second look or stare then I've met my goal.

[weekend woman]

I know that I will never "PASS" but at my age, 62, I dress reasonably close to my age and am happy if no one notices. I know I'm doing OK if I don't hear "Oh! that's a man!"

[Dianne S]

Passing is a big deal for me. I have a huge advantage in that my height is well within the normal range for GG's... in fact, it's near the bottom of that range. It's important for me to pass or at least blend because I plan on going 24x7 and I really don't want too many hassles. So far, so good...

[GretchenJ]

A few people I have spoken to have said that for them being accepted as a female by the world comes from mostly being able to blend in and therefore being able to pass unnoticed as a female is the goal?

This is a trick question, like what should be the spark plug gap on a 67 Chevrolet Corvair. (Sorry for the outdated My Cousin Vinny Reference).

Its a cause and effect scenario. To me, the goal is not to pass or blend, but rather to assimilate myself in my environment, wherever I decide to venture out. So, the ultimate goal is acceptance.

So for acceptance, the ability to blend is a huge hammer in my toolkit. I would like to be passable, but even on a perfect day, my height and body type throws up the initial yellow flags that will bring up the red flags upon closer inspection.

So here is my take on acceptance vs blending ( hope I get the point across ).

Blending implies being invisible in the crowd. Acceptance has these 3 main points.

a) when I look good, a random gesture by a stranger ( a door held open, a salutation as a miss or ma'am, a compliment on my outfit or a general small talk or hi - genuine, not a test to hear my voice to confirm a suspicion) is the ultimate goal.

b) but when I look just ok, my ultimate goal is to venture out, browse a little, get a bite to eat, without being pointed out, or double looked , or snickered at by anyone, this would be my ultimate goal on that day.

c) when I go out, on my occasional what the hell days, and I know I am getting clocked, (usually by the kiosk vendors at the mall), the ultimate goal may be a double look, but no smirks or comments , or humiliating laughter, perhaps acknowledgement of what I am, but appreciation in a least attempting to put together a good presentation

[bridget thronton]

I am happy when I am treated kindly regardless of my store (I do enjoy being ma'amed though)

[MsVal]

Like Rogina, my goal is personal satisfaction and comfort. Passing plays a big role in that, but so do venue, physical and emotional condition, and time of day.

So, YES, passing is a component that enables the ultimate goal of satisfaction and comfort.

Best wishes
MsVal

[melyssadawn]

I'm well aware that for most situations there is no way on earth that people will mistake me for a GG , but for me I'd like to blend enough that I could go out to my car enfemme , have a drive around and maybe a walk without any undue attention. That's my aim at the moment but who knows , maybe Dermablend will come up with a wonder cream lol

[Closeted Kat]

I think my ultimate goal is merely to be happy with myself, whether dressed or not. Finding the happy medium. If being passable or blending in public was a step to help in that final goal then sure. I am me, and if i can learn to accept myself and how i look regardless of what mode i'm in, maybe the world can follow.

[CarlaWestin]

Passing is an ultimate outcome that really takes a lot of work on my part. I believe the ultimate goal beyond passing would be transitioning. That little seductive desire is constantly lurking in the background yet, there is no valid way I could transition without a full upheaval of my existence. I'd probably crossdress as a man if I did.

[Jackie Meyer]

I fully agree. Personally, passing helps with the insecurities we have. I think we all share the fear of people pointing and staring.

[DorothyElizabeth]

I think setting "passing" as a goal is mis-thinking our situation. I think that what most of us want is to be accepted. "Passing " is a means to that end.

@GretchenJ - I used to own and drive a 67 Corvair. As I recall the plug gap is supposed to be 0.028", and the points are set at .018". (I used to use a match book cover to set the points.)

[Stephanie Julianna]

Yes. It's that simple. As I posted in my latest thread, my experience after getting a new wig and doing some everyday things like grocery shopping was incredible because I could pass and be treated as any other woman doing her daily chores. Not looking bad while you are doing all this is a bonus. I try to dress as a classy but not ostentatious woman. For many of us getting "Mam'd" is simply wonderful. So, yes, passing is always my ultimate goal because than I can be relaxed and simply enjoy my time out without worry of exposure.

[Jodi]

I go by the adage that none of us are totally passable. We might fool someone at night or at a distance, but closeup inspection is always a giveaway. Therefore; my goal is to be presentable when I go out. For this--am I dressed correctly for the venue? Is my style similar to other gg's that are present? Are my behaviors, gestures and manners such that they do not stand out as different. With that said, I can go most any place and not have any problems. Passable? No, but I put enough doubt in the observer's mind that he/she is not sure.

Jodi

[Taylor186]

Is passing the ultimate goal?

I would say it depends on which category of CD you are asking. For the first 30 years of my crossdressing life I never had a wig or makeup or accessories but I happily crossdressed at home when ever I could. Passing or blending was never even a thought. From what I've read here I wasn't alone then and I'm not alone now that I have a wig and makeup and accessories and happily crossdress at home without worrying in the slightest if I pass. I go out to events a couple of times a year, and I try my best to blend with whatever the event theme is, but I don't really pass or blend as a GG. And I'm perfectly happy knowing that.

[Katey888]

Do you think this rings true for most people or does it depend on what you personally like at the beginning of your transition into cross-living?

I'm not sure everybody absorbs this aspect of your question, Rach... :)

Is your premise that this is about CDers who will ultimately transition in some way? If so, I could only imagine you will receive affirmation that folk do ultimately want to be seen as a woman because that is who they feel they are inside.

Outside of transitioning TG/CD folk, we clearly have people who CD but have no desire to blend in, but this is about them presenting as they feel they both need and have a right to, without offending anyone... so in the generic CD world I think we have a mix of motivations, from very mixed gender presentations right through to social cosplayers and DQs who may look passable or a parody of female presentation, but whose motivations are quite different.

If you're cross-living, then I would have expected passing = presenting as who you really are.. :)

Katey x

[Seana Summer]

I would say it depends on which category of CD you are asking. For the first 30 years of my crossdressing life I never had a wig or makeup or accessories but I happily crossdressed at home when ever I could. Passing or blending was never even a thought. From what I've read here I wasn't alone then and I'm not alone now that I have a wig and makeup and accessories and happily crossdress at home without worrying in the slightest if I pass. I go out to events a couple of times a year, and I try my best to blend with whatever the event theme is, but I don't really pass or blend as a GG. And I'm perfectly happy knowing that.

I agree with Taylor. I know passing is a goal for most and the ultimate goal of many, but certainly not everyone. It seems very difficult to think of all Crossdressers as being similar.

[victoria76]

For me, passing is important. But I rarely go out...
I hope that can change. I would love to go out and pass! :)

[AllieSF]

Once I accepted that I enjoy dressing up as a woman, I decided that I needed to go out dressed as one. Once I had gone out a few times I realized that it was a lot of fun every time I was out. Once I realized that I really enjoyed the fun, I decided to try to go out as much as possible. So, my true goal is to have fun, a type of happiness. To attain the most of that when going out dressed as a woman, I quickly realized that I needed to emulate what I saw and liked about women's styles. That means that passing/blending to me is a tool to reach my ultimate goal of continuing to have a lot of fun going out.

[Caden Lane]

My goal is to simply be authentic to who I am. While being passable comes with perks, like not being ostracized simply because somebody clocks us, if we fail to meet that internal metric, then we are the one who pays for that emotional failure. But if our metric is to be authentic to ourselves, we win every time.

Ever & Always,
A striving for authenticity Caden Lane

[JeanneF]

It depends on how you define passing. With my build, it'll be a challenge to ever be able to pass 100%. But I am perfectly happy to be a reasonably attractive trans girl who is authentic to myself. I've never had about issues going out in public, I probably get some whispers of "is that a guy?", but I'm being me and that's all that matters.

[Sarah-RT]

My ultimate goal would simply to be included in "girl talk" such as when I'm out at a bar with friends that the girls could turn and compliment an article of clothing and me to them, or being invited to go shopping, basically just one of the girls

[NicoleScott]

No. My ultimate goal is to achieve the look I desire, which has little to do with passing.

[Erika Lyne]

I would love to pass but that would probably mean that my wardrobe would be less skirts and dresses. If you look around, most women are not wearing what I would like to wear out. I do dress conservatively, age appropriate and not trashy. I would like to be able to dress this way more and to do so out but a woman even in a modeate dress in Wal Mart would even draw attention.

Hugs!
-E

[Beverley Sims]

Passing is just one facet of what we do.
I just try not to be conspicuous and blend in.

[Diane Smith]

I love to dress up, but "passing" seems to be more a matter of overall shape, size and mannerisms than anything to do with clothes and makeup. I am fairly thin and have relatively long hair and nails for a guy, and I get "ma'amed" at first glance at drive-up windows and store checkout lanes probably half the time. At first it caught me by surprise, but now I make it a bit of a game -- and the irony is that it works more often, the less I consciously try to appear femme.

My conclusion is that passing -- or electing not to care whether you do -- comes almost entirely from within, and all the external trappings we love to talk about here don't really make that much of a difference. Almost like "crossdressing" (in the technical, practical sense) and "passing" are two entirely different objectives, that can be enjoyed either separately or together, may or may not overlap for all people, and probably shouldn't be conflated so often in our conversations here.

As for me, I always assume I don't pass, and choose my venues and activities so that I don't have to worry about it. But I have to admit it's a treat when I do get read as female.

- Diane

[Allisa]

I agree with Katey, I dress a lot in the very mixed gender category so passing is not my goal just being me and comfortable in my skin is my goal, there are times when I dress to express my femme self but I doubt that I pass, just blend enough to get double takes and maybe a snide remark within ear shot, but who cares I'm enjoying myself.

[prene]

For me passing is the Ultimate Goal.

If I can 100% pass, then my fears of transitioning and not to be labeled would be gone.
Who know where I would go from there.
Only me and my therapist know. LOL

[scarletcd]

I guess the main goal is to feel comfortable in what we wear.
Passing is important to me. As I am taking steps to live full time 'blending in' has become a focus.

[Cindy J Angel]

Whin i started it was about dressing and play time ( bed room fun). As time went on it became more. Out with the trashy clothes and in with just clothes. Now it is all about passing. As time moves on some of us start to find out that we r not cdrs and that we are more ts,tg. Some all ready know. The fear keeps us under cover. once u get over that the door opens some move on to more and some just stay as thay r. For me i have come to realize that i am a womam. And over the last 3 years i have been workjng on my self to look more like a woman. And so far i getting mamed miss gender quit a lot even dress as a man or dress some what as a man. I love it when it happens. It happened just list night with the wife and boy i get hammered Aver time. for some reason i got mad at the girl a young girl. I did not say anything but she knew i was mad. I even got mam at Advance Auto was getting master cylinder. I hqve learnd a lot i the last 3 years and the most important thing was confidence crap another touchdown yeah I'm watching the game. There r so many different shape size height woman and some look man out there. So confidence was the biggest thing plus a good makeup job lol well that's just my 2 cents love cindy

[Jeninus]

My thought is that...of course passing is the ultimate goal. Passing is what allows one to navigate through the world outside our homes en femme without seeing or sensing the scorn or bemusement on the faces of others, not to mention embarrassment in everyday interactions with cisgendered folk. Perhaps for some, being seen as a "Dude in a Dress" wondering around the mall or walking down the street when it is not Gay Pride Day is OK, but I suspect that they are way off to the side of the bell curve of this community.

Unfortunately, I suspect that for the vast majority of us, no matter how meticulous we prepare our presentation, it is unlikely we would ever be accepted as just another gal by a group of women in a close social grouping. For most of us, it is always our fate to be the kid with his nose pressed against the window of the candy store, looking in.

On the other hand, if you observe GGs in their day to day lives, on the street, in the shops or in businesses, there is little that you see that should arouse intense envy. For the most part they are just slogging along day by day - just like us - wearing clothes that most CDers would find utterly boring and with little attention to their hair and makeup. However, when you see the occasional woman dressed the way we would like to dress, it can just make your whole day.

[KlaireLarnia]

Passing was not and will never be my ultimate goal. I simply want to wear whatever I like, whenever I like and I am about 90% there now.

[AnnalieseH]

Like many others, my physical size will always be a challenge to passing. I've only gone out in public eye once. I got a few looks, but nothing crazy. I was nervous as heck but it was exhilarating. I have a very deep voice, large hairy hands and arms. I'm basically built like a truck, Ford tough. There is nothing that makes me feel as good as when I dress. Will I ever get to the stage of passing and considering a transformation, who knows. I enjoy what I'm doing. I plan on expanding and going out in public more but the voice and manly physical features do bother me.

[MelanieAnne]

I wouldn't call passing an ultimate goal. But if you can pass, or give it a pretty good try, you will have fewer problems, than if you look like one of the Budweiser boys.

[JessicaFoxx]

With my baby face and curly hair i can pass, even if i wear men's clothing. I don't know how this is possible. but somehow i confused a couple of people for being a women., but passing isn't my ultimate goal i just want to wear what i want to and be comfortable.

[Rachael Leigh]

While for me passing is important it's not everything, like some have said I just want be out and comfortable in the clothes I choose. If that's a skirt or just workout shorts. There just clothes and wearing the makeup just is a part of the deal

[rach2893]

Amazing to see everyones thoughts on this!

I guess everyones circumstances are different but being comfortable in your own skin is the biggest reward as far as I'm concerned :)

[Kate Simmons]

I've said it before that if you blend and no one else knows you are dressing, what is accomplished really? I would more think that the accomplishment would be others knowing you are dressing and accepting you for that regardless. :)

[Krisi]

If I blend and no one else knows I are dressing, I have met my goal of being taken for a woman. I am an actor and I have played my part perfectly.

Anyone can throw on an outfit and walk down the street calling attention to him/herself. That takes no thought and no skill. Passing or blending does take thought and skill and if you pull it off, you have accomplished something to be proud of.

[bobbief]

No, I personally believe that more important is the feeling of being female, and the accompanying sense of freedom, joy and even fun. That's it for me, "passing" is secondary. Good luck!

[windycissy]

What a great conversation! Passing is the holy grail for me, and dressing to blend is a big part of that, but I know how lucky I am to have the build and bone structure to be able to pull it off. I've met lots of crossdressers, and it's like a bell shaped curve: some of us can pass easily, some of us will never pass no matter what, and most of us have a shot if we work at it, but it's not easy and there will definitely be bad days and embarrassing moments. I don't think trying to pass is for everyone, and if you're happy and content dressing as a woman in the privacy of your home, you should be happy, and if you have someone to share it with, you're very lucky.

[LexiNexi]

I was in denial and tried to say no, but it is. Make up and hair is just alot of work some days...Not to mention maintaining your figure. But I only feel right when I pass.

[docrobbysherry]

If u THINK u passed? U probably didn't. When people see u as a female without a second thot, they treat U DIFFERENTLY!

That's not always a good thing. U may get ignored or treated impolitely. Just another woman after all. But, if folks think there is a possibility u r a man in a dress? They may bend over backward not to offend u.

Dressing to blend may help those that may stand out because they're masculine to get by unnoticed by some folks. But, dressing like that is like drinking cod liver oil for me!:doh:

[MichelleDevon]

As others have said it isn't necessarily about "passing". At 6'4" in my (often!) stockinged feet I am going to be pretty obvious in most situations and unless I am at a basketball match (which I have never been to!) the likelihood is there will not be any tall real girls to divert attention. So someone sees a very tall girl, does a double-take and realises that it is not a real girl at all.

So for me there seems little point in attempting to "pass". My goal is to look smart, presentable, maybe attractive, too but to blend into wherever I am rather than sticking out like a sore thumb. There will be situations where one is trying to be ostentatious - Christmas gatherings where everyone gets out their bling and sparkle, or going to Sparkle in Manchester, UK, where CD/TVs take over the clubs for a weekend - the micro-mini showing off stocking tops, dress with outrageously low decolletage might be de rigour in those situations.

Increasingly I find when I am out and about as Michelle that I am recognised for who I am and accepted as a crossdresser and, not infrequently, complimented on what I am wearing and on my courage in being out there as Michelle - and I think that would be my ultimate goal.

Michelle
x

[Glorialovesheels]

when I first started , not so much, as I was more into the feeling and emotions of wearing womens clothes and highheels ..it was more of an arousal for me at first. but later I discovered it was more and wanted to try to become as "feminine" as possible.. lately it depends on my moods or how much time , if I know I will be alone and don't have any commitments for the day... I will try to get "passible" (full makeup, wig) but its just a couple of hours.. well maybe just heels and a dress!

[Joanne108]

For me it is just a good thing to ward off the stupid questions.

[Jaymees22]

I have been out and about and clearly no one noticed. I felt good that I was able to blend in but, thought if I don't want to be noticed I might as well go out in male mode with a lot less effort. So presently I do my dressing at home and am happy with that. Of course in the future I may again have the urge to go out, change is good and I change often!!! Hugs Jaymee

[Stephanie47]

My personal view on passing is what is to be achieved? What are the goals? I will never pass for a woman. I know women come in all shapes and sizes. I am sure I have passed many cross dressers who have perfected the art of makeup, hair and attire. I am sure I have passed many cross dressers who have not attracted my attention because their height and weight are within the perimeters of many women. Me? Height and weight and physical features are a giveaway. I will not pass as a woman. If I were to venture out to be viewed as a "man wearing a dress" it would defeat the entire reason why I like to wear women's clothing on occasion. Being attired as a woman brings peace and tranquility. I have gone out in the evening and with the aid of an umbrella have taken walks. I have driven at night and made stops to return books to the library, mail at letter or grab a free newspaper. Those short forays have felt great, but, I have made sure I have not encountered others. I just enjoy my privacy, whether attired as a male or as a female.

[SandraInHose]

With a 48-inch chest and 18" biceps, coupled with a goatee and five-o-clock shadow, I gave up on passing decades ago.

But in my dreams, I truly wish I could experience what it would be like to be an attractive woman. I'm not attracted to men, but the fantasy of being a hottie or even just a mildly attractive female is something that will occupy my brain forever.

[Juliax35]

Passing is and is not the ultimate goal for me.

It is because as many of us I would like to be like a woman.

It's not because they're so many different women shappes, voice, type, etc... One has a "male" shape - a bottom not like JLO, another has a "male" voice, etc...

So for me the most important thing would be : if I go somwhere and the people have to look more than twice to "understand" who I m, or nobody pay attention to me as I'm a "normal" woman, the goal is reached.

[KristyPa]

A little over 20 years ago when I first went out I somewhat convinced myself I passed. As time went on and I aged I realized I did not pass at all. It bothered me a little bit but I realized I don't pass, I never will and over time excepted I don't pass and have become somewhat ok with it. Yes I wish I passed, I don't and I just have to except and be ok with it.
One other thing I forgot to add. As I aged I made sure I dressed more casual to so-called blend in better like wearing jeans and liking wearing them. I actually like wearing a nice pair of jeans with pumps and think they look good.

[Michelle_G]

My ultimate goal is to pass and I try to get as close to passing as my features will allow. My big hands ,my broad shoulders,and my voice are my biggest insecurities. Years of practicing with makeup and foundation garments has helped me build up my confidence. At first it felt like everyone was looking at me, but for the most part , they weren't. I found the more confident and relaxed I felt , the more I didn't care. I also am not used to men checking me out and realized that some of the looks are just that. Many others have said it but dressing appropriately goes a long way toward blending in. I love wearing a dress,hose and heels as much as the next girl but a blouse, skinny jeans, and nice boots fit in better at the mall.

[Richelle]

My ultimate goal is to be just out and enjoy life as Richelle. Sometimes I pass other times I just blend. It is hard to tell which as I belive that most do not care or pay that much attention to others around them. So if I am ma'amed or the do not run out of the ladies room screaming that there is a man there, do I pass or blend?

Richelle