An LGBTQ ramble

[JayeLefaye]

Ramble alert!!!!

So many threads, so little time, so much excellent advice given. Thank you all!!!

I don't want to start multiple threads, so I'm just tossing out some observations:-)

A song from the early days of rock & roll keeps going through my head:

“Who put the bop in the bop-she-bop-she-bop? Who put the ram in the ram-a-lama-ding-dong?”

To which I want to add: Who put the Q????...Personally, I don't use acronyms...However...

LGBTQ...Yes, there is now a “Q”. John Irving wrote a wonderful novel called “In One Person” that follows a gay man's journey from the 1950's through 'til now, and I highly recommend it. Towards the end of it, the narrator, the gay guy, expresses his exasperation about now having to learn what the “Q” stands for. It's hilarious.

My wife is a therapist, with several LGBT clients, and recently has added a couple of Q's. So we did some research, in case anyone is curious. If you are a Q and are reading this, then take a deep breath, and I hope you have a sense of humor.

Q stands for queer. Q's are, generally speaking, young females from birth, between the ages of 15 and 25, who are basically lesbians, but don't want to be labeled as such, and so they want to add “queer” into the equation and give it a positive meaning. Good luck with that, and bless your hearts.

Next subject: Gay guys and cross dressing...I'm really gonna ramble now...

My history with gay guys goes way back to the mid-70's, pre-HIV. Don't ask me why, but for some reason I was the straight friend who they chose to come out to. I was cross dressing in private(and clueless as to why), so maybe that gave me some empathy and they picked up on that? In any case, what I was, was non-judgemental, and they shared their lives with me.

To be a gay guy back then was to be ostracized by society, so they created their own society. Yes, there were signals. A handkerchief in a certain pocket meant something. A restroom in a certain mall, out of the way, was where they could go and hang out in a stall and wait for a like-minded guy to come in and clear their throat...And don't get me started about the Greyhound stations...

There were gay bars...BTW, Jennifer's post about gay bars started me thinking about this. Where I lived, in Detroit, there was actually a gay neighborhood...It was both glorious and tragic. Suicides were common. I had a GG friend who lived there because she loved being able to walk down the street and not be hassled. It was a community.

And then came HIV. In 1980, the worst fear in the STD world was herpes...Everything else you could get a shot for and clear up. If I remember correctly, there was a joke back then: What's the difference between love and herpes? Herpes lasts forever...

1981. It was February, and I was out to dinner with my girlfriend and a couple of her friends. One of her friends, Rhonda, was a nurse. We got to talking about STD's, and to this day, I can still hear Rhonda say; Listen, there's something coming out of Africa that will make everyone forget about herpes.

I wish she had been wrong...I lost a lot of friends and helped care for several while they wasted away...If being gay back then had been more accepted, then a lot of tragedy could have been avoided, and yes, I am still bitter about that! Shame on us!!!!

Okay, lightening up now and fast-forwarding to the last decade and gay guys and cross dressing. Bottom line? No, they don't understand us any more than heteros do. Why should they? Most of my gay friends think my CD'ing is a real hoot and love it, but there are some who it just confuses. To those who it confuses, I simply say; join the club friend:-)

When we wonder if we've made any progress as a society, I think the answer is yes....Still along ways to go, but yes.

End ramble, and thanks for being here! Love you all!!!

Jaye

[Alice Torn]

This world has been a Greek tragedy, ay best! I have few friends, now, and the only gay male ones i had, one died of Aids, and the other, is non practicing, but cannot understand why i wear women's clothes, and thinks a male kilt would be ok, but not womens skirts and clothes.

[DorothyElizabeth]

"When we wonder if we've made any progress as a society, I think the answer is yes....Still along ways to go, but yes."

I agree. A close relative of mine, in her first term as a Maryland Delegate, proposed a bill requiring equal treatment in the workplace, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. That was January, 1979. The bill "died" in committee, and was never introduced to the House floor for a vote. She died in July of 2011. Just last year, Maryland passed a law making it illegal to discriminate in the workplace on the basis of gender or sexual orientation. Unfortunately, also just last year, the time for ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment expired, three states short of the required number to enact it as a Constitutional amendment.

SO - progress? - yes and no.

[LilSissyStevie]

Back in the mid 70s I was in a trade school in Baltimore run by the state dept of vocational rehab. The largest course there was the cosmetology program. About half the students were women and the other half were TS or effeminate gay men. In those days, job opportunities for TSs and obviously gay men were limited to hairdresser, florist, decorator, etc. or prostitution. So the state thought that giving them job skills would keep them off the street. I remember one of my gay friends telling me about a strange new "cancer" that was affecting the Baltimore gay community. Nobody knew what caused it but it destroyed the immune system. The assumption then was that it was related to heavy drug use. That was 1976. I moved to California and it wasn't until the AIDS scare of the early 80s that I realized that AIDS was probably the "cancer" he was describing. Just a historical anecdote.

As far as gays and crossdressing goes. They have always been linked throughout history. Before the last couple of decades, it was not clear what the difference was between an androphilic TS and a gay guy. Transition was very rare so they both had male bodies and they both were sexually attracted to men. They were members of the same community back then. Now the tribes have separated. Heterosexual crossdressers were were almost invisible. I can't conceive that I would have ever "come out" as a CD to this group because they would have assumed I was gay (and in denial) and I hadn't yet figured out whether I was or not. I liked penises, or at least the idea of them, but not when they were attached to men. Weird thing, the mind.

[Persephone]

Here in california we're at least a couple of letters beyond that --LGBTIQS and to the best of my knowledge the "Q" stands for "Questioning." So, if you have a "Queer" "Q" then it should be LGBTIQQS.

Which makes the point -- labels are for food jars, not people. The whole LGBT... etc. label thingy is a political tool, not a reality.

Hugs,
Persephone .

[charlenesomeone]

Progress yes, we need to also not be embarrassed by who we are, whatever end of the TG spectrum we are on.
When LGBTQ is acceptable as "normal " what will be next? A ways to go for sure.

[Lorileah]

so many stereotypes, so little time.

My perspective of the gays in the 70's was that they were sort of welcomed by the younger people. It was the "do your own thing" era. HIV I agree killed that (and about 25% or so of gay men contracted it before we knew what was happening). It didn't help that the government decided not to try and stop it.

Amyway, where did you get the definition of "queer" in the LGBTQ? Questioning is more likely. I don't remember adding "queer" to just females since it was used mostly of men. Many young people go through a questioning era in their lives. Experimental maybe. They may flow into another letter or drop off the radar totally.

I will also take exception to the limited professions gays were allowed to be in. I knew bankers and chefs and clergy and insurance agents and truck drivers, nurses, doctors, lawyers...maybe my world is a little broader?

[AllieSF]

From UC San Diego, LGBT Resource Center

LGBTQI – A common abbreviation for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and intersexed community.

From Urban Dictionary

LGBTQIA - Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning, intersex, and asexual

From Little Rock PFLAG

LGBTQIA - LGBT/GLBT:
Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender. This acronym is used to refer to these individuals collectively.

QIA:
Sometimes you’ll see a combination of extra letters added to LGBT. This allows for the inclusion of lots of other people who identify all over the gender and sexuality spectrums. There are several longer versions of the acronym that people like to use, and these are pretty common additions:

Q: queer or questioning
I: intersex
A: ally or asexual

From Acronym Finder

LGBTQIA - Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Questioning, Intersex and Allies

So, they are all almost the same with the "Q" for either Queer or Questioning and the "A" for Asexual or Ally (Allies)

I like big umbrellas because the keep me very dry and thus very happy.

[JayeLefaye]

...Anyway, where did you get the definition of "queer" in the LGBTQ? Questioning is more likely. I don't remember adding "queer" to just females since it was used mostly of men. Many young people go through a questioning era in their lives. Experimental maybe. They may flow into another letter or drop off the radar totally.


I thought the same thing, Lorileah, which is also why John Irving's Narrators response to the "Q" was priceless. I thought it stood for "questioning", and apparently, in California it does...I hate the term "queer" because of the negative connotations, and so I just went with questioning, at least until my wife(the therapist) came home one day and the conversation went like this:

SO: I've had two new clients this week who are Q's.
ME: Questioning?
SO: Queers.
ME: No, the Q stands for questioning.
SO: Not according to them.

And then we started our research so that she could work with them on an informed professional level, because it's hard for a therapist to sit with a 20 year old, female, client who claims to be queer and try to convince them that they're only questioning:-)...Although I will add that she tries to gently guide them into the "Questioning" category as they find their way. I, personally, think that questioning should be a life-long goal for everyone, because the folks who are sure of all the answers scare the be-goofus out of me.

Old McDonald had a farm, EIEIO....:-)

Jaye

[Persephone]

239548

Alphabet soup can be comforting if you like being a herd animal.

[Leslie Langford]

And just to muddy the waters further, let's nor forget the concept of "genderqueer", which is often added to that acronym as well, and is usually defined as follows:

gen·der·queer [jen-der-kweer]

ADJECTIVE

1. Relating to or having a gender identity that is other than male or female, is a combination of the two genders, or is on a continuum between the two genders.

2. Questioning one’s gender identity.

NOUN

3. Such a person.

[Rogina B]

I am very active in rights for "the alphabet kids" here in Florida and the word "Queer" or "gendergueer" is very common and non derogatory. Alphabet kids can and are in any profession that the "straight and normal" people are. Some gays,like "Bears" blend into their macho world so that they are unseen as gay...

[JayeLefaye]

I am very active in rights for "the alphabet kids" here in Florida and the word "Queer" or "gendergueer" is very common and non derogatory. Alphabet kids can and are in any profession that the "straight and normal" people are. Some gays,like "Bears" blend into their macho world so that they are unseen as gay...

Just seriously curious Rogina. Are the "Alphabet Kids"...I love that:-).....But in your experience, what is the percentage, male to female, who use the term "queer"? I'm guessing it's mostly young women?

Here in the land of Duke University/UNC and NC State it is young females, But my experience is limited.

Jaye

P.S...No one knows who put the "bop"...And we can never track down the first Q...But bless their heart!!

[Mink]

the queerest of the queer!

the strangest of the strange!

why must we always..

re-arrange?

uh!


I think most wouldn't like being in the Questioning section because it makes them sound oh so confused! ... even though it's the same Experimental stage that many go through...

no clue where this Queer only applying to women let alone a certain age bracket?

in addition to genderqueer and queer and gender-fluid and gender non-conforming and genderduck (!) there's about a million new ones being invented every dang day

so in a way "queer" can just cover about anything!

much like transgender varies so dang mulch!


as for who put the bop i'm pretty sure it was the ramones

gabba gabba hey!

[Claire Cook]

Alphabet soup can be comforting if you like being a herd animal.

Persephone, I love this one! Labels work best when they're attached to clothes.... (even then a Size 12 isn't always a 12)

[KaceyR]

Alphabet soup can be comforting if you like being a herd animal.

Yup.. also like these cans of alphabet soup..not enough letters to really be able to express things properly :)