Attempting the middle road...

[LoriFlores]

Not sure of the eventual success (??). However, it looks like my wife and I are going to make an attempt at the middle road of transition. We are going to attempt to have our cake and eat it too... We have a good marriage and love each other but it's complicated by my GD. At the moment she appears to have now accepted being married to a Tomboy. I believe that she also understands that she does not have two husbands but that I'm ONE (albeit a complicated one). She has taken to referring to me (one) as her combined husband, BFF, and girlfriend :D

We have also dropped the use of my fem name in favor of accepting my female self as me under my current legal name. This will put my renewed interest in HRT on hold in the hope that we can make this work. I told my therapist that I think of my current self as poisoned by testosterone instead of bathed in estrogen, but that we will see if we can make this work with the cards that nature has dealt us.

My wife did make comments to the effect that full transition would involve both great expense and seemingly endless medical procedures, which seems true. On the upside she also did NOT seem to point to an immediate ending of our relationship if these costs were incurred... I hope we can make this work. I'll still consider HRT as a next half step if we need to move on from here.

This is the kind of pic that keeps us going and I have a similar mini poster on order from Kama (http://kamanj.com/shop.html):
239910

[Persephone]

WOW!

And your picture is so beautiful!

Hugs,
Persephone.

[PretzelGirl]

Lori, your path is not an easy one, although there are some that make it work well. It all depends on the level of your GD and balancing that with your commitment. I wish you the best of luck with it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I'm pretty sure that's not them in the picture....

[LeaP]

Do whatever works. And if you've found it, terrific.

If I have it right, no HRT and no reference to a female name. "Full transition" is out (I'm not exactly sure what a partial transition would be anyway). Basically you have an acknowledgment of some femininity in your nature. That is no small thing in itself and I don't wish to diminish that. But where do you see the middle in this path?

[Rianna Humble]

I'm pretty sure that's not them in the picture....

If we go by what LoriFlores wrote, you would be 100% right

[Eringirl]

Good luck, I know that it is not easy. I hope that this middle ground is a happy place for the both of you!!

Erin

[charlenesomeone]

All the best on your chosen path, really do hope you both are happy.
Hugs

[angpai30]

I do hope that all goes well with you. I tried the same thing with my ex and it ended in divorce. Though, I'm not saying that yours will. I wish you well in your journey!

[Jorja]

Straddling the middle of the road is a very difficult place to be. We lose our balance just for an instant and we slip one direction or the other. Then we have to try to get back to that place and regain our balance. Not many are able to keep that place for very long. I wish you well and hope you can stay there for as long as you desire.

[KellyJameson]

For me, being born misaligned forced me to live "between the sexes" as to male or female.

I was in a sense born into a "middle road" where I was not a man or woman but something in between so a "nothing" I had no substance because my body prevented me from being "substantial "(concerning the essentials of something). Not firm, not concrete,ect...(identitylessness)

Often fear,confusion or circumstances can keep you there permanently.

This goes far beyond being a feminine man or masculine woman but two polar opposites forced to share the same space.

Dissonance and incongruity become your life and authenticity and self actualization an impossibility.

You live without "self identity" because you have no vessel to "cultivate it in" and "express it outward with". The body is not "you" and you are not the body. You are permanently separated from yourself as to your body in all things related to the experiences of men and women because they are men and women. (whole and unified)

Most people from very early on will experience their own dissonance and incongruity whenever they associate with you so in a sense you "infect them" with the consequences of your misalignment. It is like a contagion and they will fear/hate you for it. They will experience you as being "unnatural" even when you are a child. It is an instinctive response that goes much deeper than social conditioning.

It is harsh to say this but they "sense the sickness" of your "birth defect" and it makes them fearful because they do not understand it. You look normal but they experience you as abnormal.

This is always happening to the person born transsexual and the "infection and effect" on others reaches a climax when they start physically transitioning because now that desolate place in-between that the person has lived with inside themselves is brought out into the world.

Transitioning forces others to experience what the transsexual has always lived with. When we transition we "put it on others" at least temporarily.

For me to experience my "gender" my external body had to match this "identity". I had to eliminate the "polar opposite effect" so I could become "unified" in mind and body and through this unification to than live out in the world without dissonance or incongruity "for everyone"

We transition for ourselves but others benefit from them no longer being "affected,effected & infected" by the consequences of our misalignment. People sense "inauthenticity" and it makes them anxious so they do not trust you so when you become authentic (transition) you also become trustworthy. (IF you are a woman) because to transition if you are not is to never know authenticity.

If you can find a middle road and it does not cause dissonance and incongruity for yourself or others than in effect you are not "misaligned" and it should be free of suffering.

Whether this is possible or not I do not known because for me it was not or I would not have needed to transition.

To be born transsexual is to be forcefully placed in a position where your existence "bends gender" and for me I could not psychologically afford to do this any longer. That is a luxury my birth circumstances stole from me.

I experienced that place as empty. As if I had been born into a vacuum of nothingness, cut off from everything

[Anne2345]

I tried extremely hard to make the middle road work for me. In the end, it wasn't a viable option, it made me more miserable than I could have possibly have imagined beforehand at the time, and I wanted to die more times than I could can count. Even put in one really, really good try at accomplishing that, too. But fortunately, I failed at that, too. Just barely, though, which is scary. Scary now, but just kinda meh at the time.

Fast forward to the here and now and I am happy to have failed at the middle road. It was a long time coming, really.

But the thing is, through all of the denial and suppression, I really had no idea just how dead I was inside. I wasn't living life. I wasn't being me. I was fake and false. I was living a lie.

The way I was living my life was doomed from the very get-go. I was just too scared to see it for what it was.

Even though I still have my work cut out for me as I continue through transition, I am alive now in a way I never was before, and this has value and much meaning. I love it, in fact, and wish I hadn't spent so much negative time and energy in the past fighting against the inevitable.

For me, the middle path led no where but to the bowels of hell. I thought I could navigate its narrow and delicate path, but I couldnt.

The best thing I ever did for myself was to finally leave it behind.

The funny thing is that folk around here warned me about it, just as some here are warning you now. I didn't listen. I didn't want them to be right. I fought against it. I fought against myself.

And when you fight against yourself, you're eventually going to lose. It's an impossible fight.

But who knows? Maybe you are one of the very, very few it *seems* to work for. Sara Jessica is the only one around here that seems to have a decent handle on it, but I have my doubts about that. Not that she doesn't *believe* it or *want* it to be so, but that she is also due to crash and burn as so many of us have before her.

Still, use the collective information and wisdom of the the forum as best you see fit, and make the best decisions in the moment that you can.

[Angela Campbell]

to me it sounds like you are doing a lot to try to make the relationship work. I wish you luck with that.

[Rogina B]

For me,I have been in the process of transitioning socially over the past 10 years after returning from South America to rework my life.It is about being out to everyone that matters and living it with no hiding.As with any transition,you lose and gain people along the way as you develop a life that puts your inner being in charge .Rogina's picture is the one on my new driver's license and there is no anxiety from that.I am comfortable and at ease around anyone or anywhere. For me,that is living the "middle path" with no guilt or regrets and my wife and daughter know how good I feel from doing so. But rewards don't come without risks and a TG has to be willing to make the jump. My opinion only,of course.

[LoriFlores]

Thanks for all the input, advice, and warnings. I know this is going to be hard to make work as much as I want it to. I've been an emotional wreck and really feeling trapped. I really want to preserve our marriage. However, I'm sensing that my wife may not have the same commitment or that this is all just too much for her. I'm hoping that improvement will come with time but understand that experience has proven how difficult this has been for others :sad: Maybe I was too hopeful a couple days ago... Such a roller coaster ride (and I hate roller coasters!!).

[docrobbysherry]

I was thinking the same thing, Jorja!

Straddling the middle of the road is a very difficult place to be. We lose our balance just for an instant and we slip one direction or the other. Then we have to try to get back to that place and regain our balance. Not many are able to keep that place for very long. I wish you well and hope you can stay there for as long as you desire.
I don't have an SO, am not even considering changing genders. But, my "middle road" has been so all over the place the last couple years, if I was a chicken I would have been flattened by a semi countless times!:doh:

I wish u all the best, Lori! Or, whatever you're going by now!:thumbsup:

[FurPus63]

I'm going to try and be as gentle, sensitive, and respectful as possible; but it's hard. Your post here is really bothering me. I read the original and what you added apparently a couple of days later. Yes you are correct you were trying to be "overly optumistic" as you admitted yourself. "Middle of the Road, Transition?" Doesn't sound very realistic to me. You don't get to change your name, you don't get to take HRT, although you haven't said it, it sounds like you're not going to transition at work (which without HRT and a legal name change is almost impossible anyway) you pee standing up, what do you get to do? Sounds like your wife gets everything she can tolerate while expecting you to ignore your GD and attempt to be satisfied with a few moments here and there where you might be able to dress like a girl (do you even do that?).....

I know this sounds cruel as hell but WTF? Honey; I wish we all could save our marriages. I really do. I understand and realize you love your wife. I loved and still love/care about my ex-wife. However; what you're attempting is near if not completely impossible (not to mention ridiculous). IMO I just don't see how it can work?

I can offer some hope though. My ex-wife and I are now best friends. We actually live together and occasionally sleep together (no sex, just cuddle, hold, sleep). We have discovered that we are much better off as girlfriends than we ever could be before. We go shopping together, she shares some of her clothes with me, heck we even share our dating stories with each other. Oh yes! For me, HRT deeply increased my desire for men, and now I find myself dating them! It could happen to you as it has been known to have an effect on one's sexual orientation. The point I'm making is that it can happen where you and your wife could still love each other, be friends, etc.... maybe even possibly live together. But to be in a marriage union as husband and wife??? Attempting to transition "middle of the road"/part-way???? I don't know. To me it sounds like you're just fooling yourself.

Of course only time will tell and in the end you have to live with you so make decisions carefully. You never know. Sometimes "fate" lends a hand and the decision/choice is made for you. Just keep seeing your therapist, talking it out with your wife and get in touch with your inner-self. Explore your feelings.

Please, even though some of my words above may have sounded cruel, please know my intentions are loving and I don't want to hurt you. I'm just trying to be realistic. So many people will tell you what you want to hear out of kindness. Some of us who truly care will speak the truth. From the heart. It may sound "mean" but it's not. I do care and I do sincerely hope that you find peace in whatever you decide.

Paulette

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion that you were transsexual and what you are trying to do is the "middle path".
When we talk about middle path, we are speaking from the perspective of trying to mitigate GD from the perspective of a MTF transsexual(woman), not from the perspective of someone's unattended feminine side

I'm not mind reading and telling you what to call yourself but perhaps you can consider that what you are really talking about is simply more freedom to express your feminine side, angling to take hormones and getting more freedom for that side of your life to feel less trapped. There is no need to complicate it by comparing it to what others may be doing. Is this possible for you? It would sure be a heck of a lot better for your wife.

I peeked back at older posts to see what you've been thinking and it was really all about dressing and panties, bathing suits and leotards. It is not a continuum from crossdressing to being a woman.
And sorry but that picture is keeping you going?? The implication that the prospect of being a sexy girl in her bathing suit on the beach kissing another sexy girl keeps you going sets off all kinds of red flags in my mind about how you view all this and i'm not sure you really do have a good handle on what you are aiming at. I'm not saying its not a sexy picture, it really is!! But the collective story you've told in all your posts up through that picture makes it seem like this is a fantasy that you are pushing harder and harder.

I hope you figure it out for yourself. I am not telling you what you are or aren't but I am challenging your thinking about what you are going through and you are well served to challenge yourself over and over until you get to your best quality of life and based only on your posts I do not see how declaring you are on the "middle path" does anything to improve your life.

EDIT
I just noticed the previous post after I posted...i'm not piling on, but I realize my thoughts are in a similar vein.

[Brooklyn]

First, do what you need to do and don't worry about what outsiders think when it comes to your own mental health. I tried the middle-way for a few years, and found it exhausting and unsatisfactory. You're constantly in this world where you must examine every gendered activity and chart your course. Once I started HRT, (which is definitely not a half-step), it left no doubt in my mind which path was right. Being gender-fluid for a while, however, has made social transition much, much easier. So what if it's unsustainable? Maybe it's the right place for you for a little while - until you sort things out?

[Kate T]

So what if it's unsustainable? Maybe it's the right place for you for a little while - until you sort things out?

Agreed. Well said I think. Lori, it does sound like you need to do some thinking and experiencing to work out what is best for you and your family. If the "middle path" that you are taking is working for you to do that then great.

[Anne Elizabeth]

If it is what you both want and can keep working on it do it and make it work. I just know I have been spinning my wheels for too long trying to find a solution for too long. All It has done is created pain and suffering in both of us. It would not hurt so much if I could find a way to hate her or visa versa. Just this last week I have really seen how much of a toll it has done on her and myself the only way fro either of us to heal totally is to put an end to it. Scary Heck Yes But I can't live my life that way she wants and she knows it is not right of her to ask me to. But we keep hanging on to threads and I think it is time to cut some of those threads.

[Suzanne F]

I have also tried to keep my marriage in tact while taking steps toward transition. I live as a woman except when I am out in public for work. I work 2 or 3 days a week form home in average. I did postpone any further steps to allow my wife time to catch up almost a year ago. I will begin HRT in late April. I am out to everyone except my coworkers. All my friends see me as Suzanne on a regular basis. It is difficult at the moment to have to don the male persona but I want to do the right thing for my family. I will fully transition but in a measured thought out way. I would love to keep my wife but I cannot do that at the expense of being myself. She must be free to decide if she can be with the real me. I want to support anyone who is trying to do the next right thing. In the end though we must be who we are!
Suzanne

[Rianna Humble]

I have to disagree with Ashley, Lori came to this forum seeking support. Even though she may not like what Paulette and Kaitlyn said, they were offering genuine support rather than a "you go girl" type of response that we sometimes see from the members who have never experienced Gender Dysphoria.

In particular, Kaitlyn asks valid questions about what makes Lori sure she is transsexual and why she thinks that simply cross-dressing is transitioning to a middle path.

What most transsexuals on these forums recognize as a "middle path" is taking sufficient HRT to reduce the effects of the Gender Dysphoria and undertaking at least a partial social transition even if still presenting male at work. We have some evidence that this can help for a few weeks, maybe even a couple of months before the member feels that complete transition is the only route.

[Kate T]

Whilst I think as has been pointed out Lori perhaps needs to have some serious consideration of what she feels with respect to her gender based on previous posts I also understand where Ashley is coming from. There can be a bit of an underlying tendency within these forums with to regard individuals who choose either not to transition or not to "fully" transition with the holy grail of hormones and SRS, to be treated like their GD is lesser or not as real. I don't think that members deliberately set out to give that impression however based on Ashley's post it would seem I am not the only one who sometimes get's this feeling.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I am not aware of transitioned transsexuals protecting their holy grail of hormones and SRS.... this is something made up by people that either don't do hormones or SRS and feel bad about it, or are jealous( god I wish I was not transsexual and was jealous of them) of us because we are the ultimate of crossdressing splendor to them.. in fact, we are used by some of these people to get surgeries or hormones and they hurt all of us if it causes problems later...Charles kane et al...
I really hope you don't feel that way even if posts are sharp and pointy.

...its an interesting metaphor... didn't chasing the holy grail destroy the knights that chased it!!


Transsexuals do tend to dissuade people from trying those things because it totally sucks to go through all this.
We all experienced it...we have all been dissuaded by other transsexuals before we experienced transition or middle path
..thats the opposite of protecting the holy grail, that's telling people to not chase it...

In my own post here I made it perfectly clear that I can't read lori's mind but that her comments don't pass the smell test on what she is getting into and what she is calling middle path... I made it perfectly clear that her own GD suffering matters and she should work on it but how about considering that based only on her posting history it sure seems like what she is talking about is not Middle path.... we can quibble about definitions, but this is not a quibble... especially if we want to support each other without 50 paragraph descriptions of everything..

what I read is a person that wants to try HRT and wants to stay married.....it is a person that is sexually involved to the point that they are posting hot lesbian makeout sessions as the goal (literally)...it is a person that is doing one thing in my mind and calling it another and that will not help her stay married, and may not do anything to help with GD...especially when they find no sexual pleasure from the sexy girls in the picture... how is it not a good thing to challenge this??

My hope is that Lori has a wonderful quality of life and stays married. My hope is that she suffers minimal GD or at least manageable GD and i'm willing to say hard things to hopefully help her figure it out for herself..i admit I am opinionated and I accept its only my opinion, but its not dismissive of anybody's suffering even a little bit..

[LeaP]

It is so interesting how perspectives differ. Far from viewing hormones as some sort of goal, never mind Grail, I was fearful of them. The sources and types of emotions I experienced during this period are a separate topic in and of themselves. Getting to a decision on moving ahead with them was a matter of coming to terms with the necessity more than anything else. No doubt there will be some of that with procedures. I refuse to go there for now, as I find it … stabilizing … to keep a shorter-term view.

But let's cut to the chase on the suspicion.

First, the barest of facts. People experience gender issues out of a number of different root causes. Second, they manifest in a variety of different ways and in varying intensity. The formal medical diagnoses and terminology address only a narrow slice of this. That specifically includes "gender dysphoria." One issue is insufficient conclusive research in the physical sciences, although progress is being made. Another is that psychiatric/psychological theory is evolutionary and tends to perpetuate mixed concepts. (This last is a bit abstract. A good example is found in examining the roots of theories like AGP.)

It doesn't take more than a minute of rational thought to realize that comparing and ranking pain and treatment across different conditions is ridiculous. Take something like a relationship blowing up. It really doesn't matter whether it explodes because one party is transsexual, genderqueer, or something else, at least considering it from the perspective of the relationship destruction itself. it is destructive, excruciating, and often life-changing (good or bad.) A transsexual held back from transition might wind up destroying their life. It might be by suicide but as easily can be through substance abuse, from psychological fallout, or by other means. The same may be true of a gender variant person. Different triggers, different routes in getting there, but much the same endpoint. Anyone with gender dysphoria in its precise medical sense is at risk for this – by definition.

Part of the problem here is not just the concept of spectrum, but the conflation of spectrum concepts. Thus gender issues are perceived by many people as a single continuum of both gender problem and intensity. One result is non sequitur comparisons as it is then next to impossible to avoid the implications of a sliding scale. Therefore, the thinking goes, the transitioner suffers the same condition as the genderqueer at a greater intensity so minimally they are in a position of greater experience and knowledge, if not judged superior because of notions like gender purity and aspirational factors.

Consider another medical analogy. Patient A has a circulatory issue that has resulted in some bowel necrosis. For a variety of reasons, they are not a candidate for a resection. Treatment – colostomy. Patient B has a circulatory issue that has resulted in gangrene. Treatment – amputation of their right leg below the knee. Now give some thought as to how you would rank these two conditions. You might consider life impact, additional medical implications, impact on work or extracurricular activities, even personal views on different types of disability …. Your answers are going to say a lot more about you than the conditions themselves.

Back to the middle path. The so-called middle path is an appropriate avenue for several different types of gender issues. That is so BOTH because they are the best solution for some conditions AS WELL AS The fact that individuals vary, as do their ability and desire to self-sacrifice, bear pain, or even (considering another kind of possibility) their propensity to go overboard.

It is always fair to ask about the condition, its intensity, as well as about all those individual and complicating factors. The gist of my original response was to ask "where's the beef?" I still don't see much middle in this middle. Others reacted much the same way, but went on to ask about the detail. The only source of information are OP's posts. The primary context of this section is the transsexual condition. That, of necessity, often includes much discussion of various kinds of gender variation, and so the Q&A dug into that - not so much to challenge the OP's condition - but to come to terms with the proposed "middle path" solution, the tenuous and difficult nature of which is, after all, what the OP put out there! There should be no surprise that the perspective offered has a transsexual cast (but not necessarily bias) to it.

[becky77]

I do find the picture rather odd? What exactly is it's meaning?

Is this middle path you keeping your current name, hiding your female persona and not taking anything to progress or control the GD? Isn't that just like the closeted existence I lived most of my life?
So are we all treading the middle path unless we go fulltime? In a way most of us feel different from our earliest memories so we are always treading a different path from everyone else, in your case i'm just not sure how you have progressed to another level, in what way has your life changed from before?

If you are happy and in a loving relationship then the rest probably doesn't matter, being happy is the number one goal!

Best of luck.

[LeaP]

My perspective is pretty much the same as yours, Becky. My therapist told me at one point, however, how incredibly important it is to be acknowledged and, that for some, it's enough, especially when it's one's partner.

[Rianna Humble]

There can be a bit of an underlying tendency within these forums with to regard individuals who choose either not to transition or not to "fully" transition with the holy grail of hormones and SRS, to be treated like their GD is lesser or not as real.

I cannot let you get away with repeating this lie. You have no evidence to back this up. I don't know why you seem to like to come here to attack those who are offering genuine support, but it is about time it stopped.

[MonicaJean]

For me, the middle path led no where but to the bowels of hell. I thought I could navigate its narrow and delicate path, but I couldnt.

The best thing I ever did for myself was to finally leave it behind.

I tried, I couldn't do it either. It was flatly miserable. In the 2nd week of December, I was up 3 out of 5 nights crying my eyes dry because I couldn't figure out what was plaguing me. A darkness that wouldn't go away, a deep sense of a dark chasm owning a good chunk of my emotional life. Hard to explain.

Then at 5am on the 3rd morning that week I barely slept, Friday morning, the revelation hit me: "Monica, you've been attempting a middle-of the road transition. This isn't for you, only a full transition will allow you to be yourself." Like that the heaviness, that awful weight lifted, finally. (Only to get up to a busy day of course)

I knew a full transition would be the most difficult path to take, but in the revelatory moment, I knew but I knew what path in life I needed to take.

Monica Jean (board name: michelle1)

[Michelle789]

My intent for transition was never to be a middle of the road transition but to eventually go full-time. However, I knew it would be a long time before I go full-time as a woman. Last year, I ventured outside the house for the first time as a woman in early February. I slowly worked my way up to living weekends and nights after work as a woman. I took off a week from work in late May, and I spent the whole time dressed as a woman. When I had to return to work on June 2, 2014, I was incredibly miserable the whole week, and my anxiety manifested itself in physical symptoms. I literally felt like I was extremely jittery and wanted to jump out of my body. Never in my life had I experienced anxiety so bad. Even when anxiety does result in physical jitters, which in my case will happen from time to time, especially right before the onset of a cold, no episode had been as bad as the early June, 2014 episode. By some divine intervention, I lost my job on June 10, 2014, and I was able to live almost full-time as a woman. I was full-time except for my AA home group, which I went to every other Friday. By mid-August I went full-time. I came out at AA and was re-hired at my old job as a woman.

I find that I feel much better, and much more comfortable with myself, when presenting as a woman. I feel much better being on estrogen. And I feel much better when I put my spiritual needs first. This means at least two AA meetings per week, church every Sunday, doing my gratitude list, being of service, and praying to God and meditating. Self-care is very important to me. Spirituality, program, exercise, diet, sleep, and transition, are all part of self-care. The more I take care of myself, the better I feel. And living authentically, as well as being on hormones, is a MAJOR part of self-care.

[LoriFlores]

Thanks for all the wonderful input, including the "tough love" :)

These past two weeks have been a time of tremendous growth both personally and in my wife and I's relationship. With the help of our therapist (specializing in transgender work) I have come to much better understand (and admit to myself) my position in life. Until these weeks I really did not know where I fell in the membership of this website. Now with both our therapists help, and followup reading on my own, I have a much better understanding. Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (Not Transvestic fetishism, etc). It has also forced a more open discussion on myself with my wife. She has held a very ridged viewpoint on Gender Identification = Sexual Orientation. She seems to be coming to terms with un-linking the two. Earlier on this topic I had privately expressed my views to our therapist that I thought orientation could be changed by HRT. She had responded in part that or that I "could be a lesbian". Today, she again expressed to my wife that her experience has been that orientation does not usually shift during transition (others experience may differ). I dwell on the orientation point because this has been a major concern of my wife based on her ridged link between identification/orientation.

I don't know if this pausing in the middle road will ultimately work or not. I know that if I was alone in a vacuum I would rush towards full transition. But, I'm not... I'm willing to pause here to see if this is a workable place for my wife and I. Our relationship is worth the effort. Others have found this an impossible location and I understand that.

A major change that leads to my defining this as a "middle road" is full acceptance/understanding by both myself and wife of my gender identification and that this is not a part time (dress up time) position. Another is my wife's apparent now acceptance of my androgynous dress as not being synonymous with "he's gay and about to leave me for a man". Instead we are two women, all be it imperfect women, sharing our lives together. I can't emphasis how significant both of these shifts are. The stress level in our household has dropped markedly for the last couple days and including after today's therapy session.

I know these changes may be minimized by some but to us these changes are so dramatic that it seems like we are moving at the speed of light. Two weeks ago I was on the verge of tremendously destructive behavior, had a plan, had the means, and was moments away from a final act. This is a better place, even if ultimately transitory.

In the mean time we get to go for a french pedi together next week after our next therapy session :D

[Rianna Humble]

Hi Lori, thank you for the clarification. I admire your desire to bring your wife along at a pace that allows her to adjust to the situation. I would urge you, though, to keep up the conversation so that you can eventually make progress. I would hate to find you were a statistic on the next Transgender Day of Remembrance.

[gonegirl]

A major change that leads to my defining this as a "middle road" is full acceptance/understanding by both myself and wife of my gender identification......

A little more tough love, Lori:
Be prepared for that apparent acceptance and understanding by your wife to be revealed as being self-forced tolerance. She may want to accept and understand, but it's a very rare spouse who can fully bridge that chasm between your understanding of yourself and a non-TS's understanding of yourself. I sincerely wish you well in retaining your marriage.

[Frances]

Although I am post-op and super comfortable in a binary society, I believe there are many ways of being a human, and that falling between boxes is just fine, if you can handle the reaction of others.

Espousing a middle road to protect someone else's sensibilities or in the spirit of compromise will not work in the long run. This I believe firmly. I have seen too many examples over the years.

[Sara Jessica]

But who knows? Maybe you are one of the very, very few it *seems* to work for. Sara Jessica is the only one around here that seems to have a decent handle on it, but I have my doubts about that. Not that she doesn't *believe* it or *want* it to be so, but that she is also due to crash and burn as so many of us have before her.

Middle road, catches my attention. Anne calls me out, even more so!!! :battingeyelashes:

Seriously, I co-opted the term middle path from another source. The true meaning is more along the lines of "crossdresser with a significant social presence", or something like that. Given that I do identify more towards the TS end of things, I adopted middle path to mean "non-transitioning transsexual".

There is an important caveat when discussing the distinction between one who transitions and one who chooses to stay on a middle path. I will profess that my choices are based upon the life I have built, marriage, children, career, etc., that I do not wish to risk these things by going down a road to transition. Yet the converse of this is not true. Those who choose transition do not hold those things in any less regard. Each of us makes our own decisions for our own reasons based on the unique variables that are in play. Sometimes survival is one of those variables. Sometimes it is just escaping the constant vice-grip that GID holds on one's heart. Gosh knows I feel that daily.

So I spent a period of time navigating this path. I made some significant body modifications that a typical male wouldn't necessarily do (growing my hair out to eliminate a need for a wig, electrolysis, brow waxing, removal of body fur, etc...jeez, seems it's all about the hair!). These serve to enhance my experience in the traditional middle path definition, helping my significant social presence and more importantly, something like electro became something that'd need to be done if I were to ever go down a transition path.

This all made sense and I managed to cope with my ups and downs. Everything was plugging along until I started feeling worn down in what seemed like an endless debate about what makes a woman, or even a TS, feeling as if I was having an impossible time convincing anyone that a middle path is a valid place to be, that one can find fulfillment on both sides of the gender fence. I then made a declaration, that I would no longer hold transition out there as a carrot. It would no longer be a crutch to fall back upon in my darkest days. I would let love win this battle and continue to cultivate my social presence as a means to my overall fulfillment.

So what has been the result? I'm sorry to report that Anne is wrong, at least for now (no one can predict what the future might hold). I have never been happier. My highs are frequent and more sustained. My lows however are much less frequent and more crushing but I am managing them.

I spend little or no time these days justifying my personal choice to others and I am certainly not doing so right now. What I am doing is pointing out the validity of the middle path as a choice. It isn't the choice for most. It isn't for the faint of heart but neither is transition. If you are 100% honest with yourself about the narrative of your life to this point and what you want for your future, and if you are willing to work at it, then this MIGHT be a good choice you are making.

I'll close with these words about a friend of mine who took her life just over five years ago. She knew nothing of a middle path option before diving down a transition rabbit hole. I believe she was enabled by others and not challenged by professionals. She torched what she described as a perfect marriage and never recovered from that loss. One of the last things she said to me the last time I ever spoke with her was "I wish I had what you have", speaking of the middle path. How I wish I had met her when she was still exploring her options. By the time I met her, she was in way to deep to step back onto a middle path.

But it is rare that there is a day I don't think of those words of hers. She is an angel to me who I rely upon for strength to stay on my current course.


...There can be a bit of an underlying tendency within these forums with to regard individuals who choose either not to transition or not to "fully" transition with the holy grail of hormones and SRS, to be treated like their GD is lesser or not as real. I don't think that members deliberately set out to give that impression however based on Ashley's post it would seem I am not the only one who sometimes get's this feeling.


I cannot let you get away with repeating this lie. You have no evidence to back this up. I don't know why you seem to like to come here to attack those who are offering genuine support, but it is about time it stopped.

Rianna, please understand that perception is often reality and yes, there are some of us here who perceive at times an air about this place which is along the lines of "fish or cut bait". I have felt it (see comments above), though not in quite some time but when I did, it was very real and hurt a lot. I spent time defending myself but have long since let it go. There is no way I can quantify my GID any more than someone else can. It all comes down to how one chooses to deal with these issues which doesn't speak to the depth of the underlying condition.

[KellyJameson]

For certain women and I would think this would be particularly true for post-op women, the suggestion of a middle path not only could threaten them but also leaves them feeling invalidated, like a slap across the face.

As a by product of live long and intense GD I cannot tolerate ambiquity concerning gender so I am very much a black and white thinker of what makes a woman or not.

This thinking goes right to the body because for me the body is the reflection of gender. It starts with the body and goes outward.

My mind thinks of gender in terms of "body sex" and "brain sex" first and foremost. If my mind is a female sex as "my brain" and this is causing me pain because my body "is not" than something needs to change. Either I change my brain through shear will power (does not work)or the defensive mechanisms available to all in the face of traumatic experiences (and being born misaligned is extremely traumatic) so risking mental illness (mental illness is almost guaranteed as to anxiety and CPTSD or others) or "I change my body and all that this implies"

In my opinion the need to transition can be measure by the degree of suffering being born misaligned has caused you. Only transitioning to the degree you "need to" (which I support) is a measurement of the suffering you are "in" and the suffering "you can take" and this goes right back to the physical body "you must live inside OF and WITH"

My transition does not make me a superior woman to those who "do not" but simply comes out of what I have experienced.(pain born out of identity drove my transitioning) My concept of what a woman "is and is not" does affect whether I can relate to those who do not fully transition.

A woman with a penis does not make sense to me "for me" so the body and gender are tightly wrapped up together in my mind.

For me the genitals were a very important part of transitioning. I could not resolve the dissonance of living with the genitials I was born with contrasted against the brain I have.

My brain and genitals (body) were not aligned as much as my role in society was not.

This of course included secondary sexual characteristics (body hair/face, bone structure) but it went much deeper than that.

If you do not have a problem living with your genitals and the 'sex" that "has and does come out of that" than this in my opinion will strongly affect your attitudes toward how you live and what type of transition you need to do.

For me it was never about living in society but living in my own body.

All my problems started with that body and than by extension how that body was "gendered" which added a second layer of pain on top of the first one.

Those who can walk the middle path should consider themselves fortunate because for them life is not black and white, all or nothing.

I support those who can do this but I don't relate to them as being "like me' because they are different in their "identity" what "created this identity" and the pain that "comes out of it"

I do not like to support the middle road for those who "are like me" but I certainly do for those who are not and this is simply because I do not want anyone to go through what I have.

I'm very sensitive to the suffering this has caused me and the realization that it can only be escaped through transitioning "FOR ME". Other have to fiqure that out for themselves.

It has nothing to do with who is and is not a woman because I could care less and I certainly don't care about who is "more a woman than someone else" because I simply see this as lunacy,ego,self loathing and insecurity. None of which as anything to do with living your life authentically.

Being in-between or walking the middle path is intolerable for someone like me because that was what my birth did to me. It took me right into mental illness and kept me there, but for others it takes then out of their suffering and has a healing effect.

What harms some people, heals others and each has to figure it out for themselves.

[LeaP]

Sarah, in a sense, there IS no middle - there is only the best solution to one's individual situation. You convey much the same when you speak of the friend that transitioned who should not have. As it's being used here "middle" minimally suggest multiple acceptable solutions. I think it also implies choices that are, on some sort of balance basis, equivalent. It may be true for some. But just as it appears that transition wasn't healthy for your friend, neither is the so-called middle path for some others.

Transsexualism has *always* been quantified, most famously by Benjamin, whose classification framework for same included transition urgency. That's not the same as quantifying dysphoria which, as you imply, can be quite serious indeed regardless of gender identity. But then, GD is also quantified - as clinically significant impairment.

I have no difficulty accepting that there are transexed individuals who are best served by not transitioning just as there are some non-transsexed individuals who might be. Individual drivers are very complex. Whatever the transition urgency might be, however, identity itself really requires no measurement at all ... if one can say definitively man or woman, male or female. The problem of definition as well as balanced choices seems to belong in the end, to the genderqueer. Genderqueer or cross-sex identified ... either still begs the solution. But to the transsexed, the middle path is relatively more damaging. Some choose it anyway. But you ought to recognize differences among those who do stay in the "middle" and not advocate for it, just as others shouldn't advocate for transition.

One last thing: There is *definitely* a "fish or cut bait" undercurrent here. It mostly concerns moving AT ALL, and not in a particular direction. People do get exasperated delivering the same answers against the same issues for the same individuals who continue to wring their hands and agonize. Even though they understand it and experienced it themselves! Why? Because you have to LIVE to LIVE. You need to do SOMETHiNG! An occasional kick in the ass is ofttimes a good thing. I've had a few. I still remember Frances'. Very, very simple, but was timely for me and cut to the heart. It was "Transition will take care of that." Wow. What a cheerleader.


As usual, Kelly, so well said.

I did not know that it was about my body until after starting hormones, however. At that point, as the the psychological issues receded, the fact that it had always been about my body was starkly obvious. And that leads me to why I agree with your comments about womanhood. The lead-up to that point was strong episodes, increasing in frequency, of feeling cross-sexed - female. (I've written about it often, and the first such episode was the occasion of my first post here.) It became my normal state, then faded into a new normality. One that I can still identify as female, but doesn't "feel" as it did when it was foreign. It is just me, I'm unsettled in my body, and that is that. How do I know I'm female? I have no F****** idea. I just do, and I inhabit the changes to my body thus far so easily and naturally that it sometimes surprises me in its lack of remarkability. It just feels like me in a way that I never felt before. So is that more or less female or woman than someone else? Who knows? Who cares?

[Sara Jessica]

The comment that the existence of a middle road (and those like me, I suppose) is threatening, invalidating and a slap in the face pretty much proves the perception many of us feel, thank you.

It is impossible to measure the depth of one's GID so that is a moot point. All that can be seen is what comes out the other end and that is where the divide becomes evident. The narrative of one's torment fuels this and creates further division. The word "authentic" in particular and the context in which it is often used chafes me in that it suggests that I am less than authentic.

I am not an advocate for a middle path, only an advocate as it being a valid choice for some to consider. I have the same birth defect as y'all, I just deal with mine differently. Not better, just different.

[steftoday]

I wish this forum had a "like" button. Thank you Sara, for what you have written.

[becky77]

I don't really agree with the invalidating part? Post-op women are now women, why would they be invalidated by a Transgendered middle path person?

If your a post-op woman in theory you should be out there living as a woman. No longer part of the trans scene and therefore no way to be invalidated. If you are post-op and choose to remain in the trans scene, perhaps you will invalidate yourself, but how can someone else be to blame?
I am also guilty of seeing the world as black and white sometimes. A woman doesn't have male genitals, a transgendered person does. However, in a world where most people have to pay for that surgery, It's hardly fair to make them feel lesser because they can't afford it, or can't have it for health reasons.
For those that could afford it but choose not to, I'm fine with that also, but I personally don't see how they can say they are a woman. This is probably because I'm again guilty of falling into society's stereotype.

I don't think we can agree on this middle path thing. When you transition you push past the fear and risk all to be your true self, so It's hard to feel sympathy for those that claim to be the same and yet they only dip there toes in and play it safe. I can't see how you are the same as those of us that have gone the transition route, if you was you wouldn't be able to cope with being in the middle. That's not to say in anyway you are lesser, just different and one can't understand the other.

[Rianna Humble]

Rianna, please understand that perception is often reality and yes, there are some of us here who perceive at times an air about this place which is along the lines of "fish or cut bait".

As others have said, this kind of response tends to be towards members who just spend time having said what they feel they should do and then spend all of their posts explaining why they will not do what they said they should be doing. Even then, it is most often to people who raise objections to their chosen path then totally ignore any suggestions of how to overcome their objection.

We also sometimes have to ask questions to tease out of a member what support we can usefully offer, but whenever we do there always seems to be a post from an adina or equivalent falsely accusing us of elitism. It is interesting that those accusers never seem to offer any positive support to the person being questioned by members.


I have felt it (see comments above), though not in quite some time but when I did, it was very real and hurt a lot. I spent time defending myself but have long since let it go.

Unfortunately some members (and I am not accusing you personally) spend so much time defending their own attitude that they never get around to either allowing TS members to support them or to making any progress with their own chosen path.


There is no way I can quantify my GID any more than someone else can. It all comes down to how one chooses to deal with these issues which doesn't speak to the depth of the underlying condition.

I don't see TS members asking anyone to quantify GD, but I often see cis members accusing us of doing so (again not accusing you) - or worse accusing us of pressuring people to transition whether they need to or not. However, we do need to try to understand how the GD is affecting a member before we can offer any practical support.

It would be equally insane for me to say to someone who has found relief short of transition that the only solution is full MtF transition as it would for me to tell someone who needs to transition to just "man up" (something that has been said to most of us by cis colleagues or family).

Until Lori told us more of her situation the only possible non-questioning responses were either "you go girl" or "go away" neither of which would have been in the least helpful.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Lori, kudos for stepping up to the plate and bringing more thoughts and details into it.
You have alot of thinking in front of you. It does seem things have changed and you've joined a very unfortunate club!!!LOL...
I would urge you to stop thinking in big terms, and think little... What can you do today and tomorrow... the bigger the terms "middle path" , "transition", "invalidation", the more pressure you will feel..
because of how you've got to this point, you are gonna have to work to separate out the expectations of presenting and feeling female vs the more fetishy stuff you were into before... you get to decide what all that means and whether any of it can help you against GID...
if you are doing ok right now, you can work to mitigate your GID through expressing yourself as Lori... or executing body changes to feel more like Lori... whatever can work for you is going to be worthwhile.. You want to do everything you can to avoid transition HOWEVER!!!!!!!!! Do not make promises or pronouncements, no matter what anybody tells you the promises work against you...the promises make it worse.. even to yourself... if you can successfully follow a lifestyle that gives you happiness and a feeling of being alive, then you are not going to have to transition..

Here's what i say about middle path..
It's hugely ironic to me...

No transsexual espouses transition. No one cheerleads it..in fact, we say the opposite.... however we share our experience and what it did for us... we can comfort people that it really does solve the gd problem...
It's not complicated. Don't transition. If you must, i can assure you it will solve the GD problem. End of story.

however, people do espouse the middle path... then project their insecurity about it onto transsexuals that have transitioned..
they have never felt the way i felt... i guarantee it... if they did they would not be talking about happiness and middle path in the same sentence...
it creates a conflict because we have experienced the non choice of transition..and they havent

I don't care whether Sara or me or you is "transsexual"...i do care that we all do the best thing for quality of life... that's why i speak up here...

You are either going to feel much worse and end up seriously in transition mode, or not.
It doesn't really matter whether you say today "im doing this or that"...it doesn't matter what you call it..
its coming for you or its not..
It's self selective... The middle path finds you, not the other way around.. it works for people because they find out who they are, and they get to a place where they can be ok..

++++++
Sara called transition a "carrot"...and once she stopped chasing the carrot things got better.... this is hugely telling to me
.... transition is actually a juggernaut that is 10 billion feet high and in slow motion runs you over as if you are an ant... it chases you..and one of the most terrifying things about it is the inevitability of it..its suffocating

i like her words because its a terrific analogy about how it felt to her ..that's WHO SHE IS... she can feel she exists without reaching the goal of transition...
if to me there was no goal...just survive....if it was just a carrot i would not have lost my wife, my six figure salary or sunk to the lows i did in fighting the juggernaut that squeezed the life out of me inch by inch..
... if it was just a carrot, i would have never taken a bite..

I do not believe Sara or I did anything really different...we both tried to not transition.. i did everything to avoid the feeling getting worse, nothing worked... sara did everything and this middle
path worked...luck of the draw? intensity? Actual different gender identities?? who knows..

Sara tries to imply that there is no judgement, but the judgement is clear...no matter how you slice it, the message is perhaps if you try harder, perhaps if you just rely on the power of love you can make it!!! if that's not the message there is no message at all...

my message is the harder you try the worse it gets UNTIL you are on the proper path for YOUR identity. That's the only way. There is no right or wrong unless you aim away from your actual identity.
That's what you have to figure out Lori...
How do you figure that out??? Great question!!!

Maybe ask yourself this.
Is transition looking like a carrot to you?
Or do you see freight train heading straight for you??

[LeaP]

Maybe ask yourself this.
Is transition looking like a carrot to you?
Or do you see freight train heading straight for you??

Transition Train routes present many options, many twists and turns. Choose carefully because..

240272

... crossing points between Transition Trains and Middle Paths are dangerous places. They are normally guarded by barriers or bypassed via bridges. Mix the two and you get:

240273

It seems that both trying to jump off the train or to beat it to the crossing are bad ideas. About the stupidest thing you can possibly do, though, is to stand in the middle of the intersection.

[Rogina B]

I made my post in this thread because I believe that a person can live a life[maybe not forever] that allows them to satisfy their GD.Being out,socially included,standing firm in your own skin are all part of this. Socially transitioning and all that goes with it,including charm school. After all,social transition IS the greater part of transition. And for those that say that people are afraid of losing something,so it can't be as bad as they had it,or there would be "no middle path"..That's fine! Just remember how many threads and discussions on this forum have to do with "retaining the position" that people achieved as male prior to their new path. I don't see so many here that "just blow up their work world" so that isn't far from what Sara Jessica said about keeping the world that she has..Transitioners tend to want to keep hold of somethings as well..There has been lots of job related discussions here and few truly wish to reinvent themselves from scratch hence they are afraid of social transition and what could happen to them as well. My opinion,of course.

[Marleena]

Lori I wish you luck with whatever you choose as a path. This really is about personal choice and what will work for you and your wife since both of you are willing to work together on it. If you can keep your GD under control without HRT you will be one of the lucky ones.

[LoriFlores]

Had another visit with our therapist today. Unfortunately, today feels like the train wreck pictured in LeaP's reply...

[Rogina B]

There is no fast track to working out complicated issues for the better.

[flatlander_48]

We must remember that we can only make the best decision we can. It's not to say that faced with the same choices next month or next decade that we would come to the same conclusions. Also, we cannot undo the past with a different decision in the future. The only thing to do is make the best of what we have to work with at that point in time...

DeeAnn

[LeaP]

... today feels like the train wreck pictured ...

How so? What happened?

[JulietaBelen]

I really admire the way you go on in your life. The picture is beautiful.

[LoriFlores]

How so? What happened?

Made the mistake of bringing up the topic of HRT again. My dumb idea of looking at the boundaries of middle of the road... This had been based on a previous "what if" discussion I had had with my wife. During that conversation I asked my wife what she would do if I woke up one morning and we found that my body had miraculously been transformed into completely female overnight. In that conversation she reassured me that she would still love me and we would of course continue living together in a loving relationship. Ahha, but as I'm learning, "what if" and actually taking steps to make it happen are far different...

My therapist commented that she was not surprised, that as I become more open with and accepting of my GD that I would tend to shift on the transition continuum. This predictably (to others but not to me at the time) did not set at all well with my wife. This evolved to a whole discussion on my ultimately needing to decide where I see myself in the future which will follow with my wife deciding how far she can travel with me down this road. This then moved on to a discussion of continued marriage, friendship only, etc. Everything that others here have experienced and/or warned about.

Today has been better at home, but a firm line has been drawn at HRT.

We did go out today and I got my navel pierced... :o Our pedicure adventure is also still being planned for another day.

[Rogina B]

You seem to want to push "the line"..I described my middle path life a bit for you,in a previous post. Nails,piercings,etc are all well and good ALONG WITH living openly as Trans..Being out to the world and facing some interesting challenges may be more rewarding for you than pushing the line and causing turmoil for little gain. Some spouses really draw the line at FFS more than the HRT...Every situation can be different. I wish that you would try living openly as a Transwoman and have some experiences from that.Perhaps your GD may be calmed from it for a while. My opinion,of course.

[morgan pure]

I love this bar. I agree with every single comment.

I am doing so-called middle road for years. Love my wife but we live apart. Need to spend x amount of hours a day in panties, but also still look good in a suit. And decently tailored suits are a lot cheaper than Gucci bags and Manolo shoes. Also-I can not do make up every day and I 'm 6'3".

[gonegirl]

Yep, for some people it's all about the panties. Very helpful comment for any transsexual woman.

[PaulaQ]

@LoriFlores - you may find that half measures avail you nothing, but I wish you the best of luck.

What is middle of the road about your approach? You aren't doing anything, seemingly to keep your wife happy. She doesn't acknowledge that you are a woman - she won't even use your name in private.

I understand the desire to keep your marriage, and I really do wish you luck, but I am afraid that you are unlikely to get much mitigation of your GD from what you are doing. Because really, you aren't doing very much. I do hope I'm wrong and it works out for you.

I can understand the desire for a middle of the road approach. Some people don't identify well as either male or female, so the type of transitions a lot of us do wouldn't be appropriate.

I would also point out that middle of the road often involves staying in the closet, and that in itself puts a lot of pressure on some of us. Most of us need space where we can really be ourselves, and the big battle of social gender transition is to carve out a space for yourself in the world, and still have a life that isn't just nightmarishly awful for social reasons.

Again, I do wish you the best. Do you think your wife really believes she's in a lesbian relationship?

[LoriFlores]

@ PaulaQ - Thank you for your thoughts. As I said in a PM to another member "this has been a very difficult time, but at the same time my wife and I have made so much progress. Much of the stress has been reduced in our relationship. Although I attribute this much to a greater understanding on her part that gender identity and sexual orientation are not linked. Ie, that because I present and identify as female does not mean that I'm sexually oriented/attracted to men. The seemingly great fear of hers that a gay man was going to snatch me away from her has [apparently] been reduced..."

But to answer your question: I too question whether she really accepts me as a lesbian lover, or if its just a "thank god he's not gay" response.

But also, as I said in the PM, "I want desperately to live my life as I should have", being fully/legally accepted as female. But this does not seem to be in the cards that life has dealt me :sad: "Instead, I'm going to have to focus on what I do have in life and not on what I'm missing... I love my wife, family, and much of everything else [we] have in [our] life. I must focus on appreciating these!!! Life can be cruel but I must make the best of it!!!"

Many have predicted that I will fail in this half step, but I'm going to have to give it a try...

Luv and hugs, Lori

[Rogina B]

Design a life and then take the steps to actually live it..You are still in the fantasy stage at this time.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Rest assured that there is a very long way to go. As you've seen here, there are all kinds of people and all kinds of outcomes. (many yet to be written)

I'd reiterate there is not much you can do about intense gender dysphoria other than suffer or take steps to transition.
The intensity is not controllable over the long term. The daily grind of it is terrible. Other times its under control for many years, and then some event in life happens and it explodes.
The folks that don't feel that intensity may never agree and that's ok because in the end you will find out for yourself just like we all do.

You are right to say gender dysphoria and sexuality are not linked. One reason you get the reaction here from TS women is that you are very focused on sexuality. Your picture in the OP really sets off all kinds of bells. That is what you chose to post when you introduced this situation to us. For you it's linked. You are not her lesbian lover except in your own thoughts. You are well served to deal with that in your mind and communicate it effectively with your wife.
And what's more, there are a number of us here that swore over and over we loved women, and it didn't turn out that way. Perhaps you know for sure, but again you will find out for yourself.

Same for your wife. What she is doing and saying now is conditional on where you are now. The progress seems real but every single little step forward will raise the risk that her most inner feelings change.
HRT is a non starter for her. That's a significant fact, and that's a signpost as to the direction of the path you are on.

As a transsexual, you really can't make any promises to her(other than doing your best) and she has to deal with it. If the GD gets worse, it will never get better until you deal with it, and that will mean breaking promises
"sorry honey, i have to start HRT(or present more, or have an orchi, or .....) or i want to stop living"...that's what happens.
Whatever you do, its in your best interest to avoid feeling trapped or stuck.

There is alot of ground ahead of you. You need to keep your options open. Be smart in dealing with your GD and the people around you, and be honest in your internal dialog and then take steps to live in a way that helps you manage it. Small steps.
I personally don't think its smart to come up with a grand plan or talk about endgames like being lesbian lovers at this point. I think its smart to take it day by day and communicate effectively. It's smart to help your wife understand you are trying but you need to do what's medically necessary to manage your gender dysphoria, and then do it.

[Jorja]

This may be a rare occasion. I completely agree with what Kaitlyn has said in the post above. I could not have said it any better myself.

[Carlene]

Kaitlyn Michelle, thank you for the well thought out, carefully articulated answer to this thread. It speaks so well with respect to what I intuitively know to be true for myself. It helps people, who for various reasons, are struggling with their middle road journey.

Carlene

[LeaP]

I agree, Jorja. I started replying to Kaitlyn's response but hung up on which parts to quote. It all resonates. And it starkly lays out the implications of serious GD.

The only thing I would add to Kaitlyn's comments about honesty is that it can be very difficult to find self-truth when dealing with GD. Just when you think you have it, it slips away. You will think you were being totally honest when you said something or gave some assurance – only to have outrage come back at you over what is perceived as yet another betrayal. The collision with truth and, consequently, honesty, is fundamental to the condition if you have not lived authentically ... because you have barely started to learn how to be honest with yourself.

[Rogina B]

Rest assured that there is a very long way to go. As you've seen here, there are all kinds of people and all kinds of outcomes. (many yet to be written)

I'd reiterate there is not much you can do about intense gender dysphoria other than suffer or take steps to transition.
The intensity is not controllable over the long term. The daily grind of it is terrible. Other times its under control for many years, and then some event in life happens and it explodes.
The folks that don't feel that intensity may never agree and that's ok because in the end you will find out for yourself just like we all do.

You are right to say gender dysphoria and sexuality are not linked. One reason you get the reaction here from TS women is that you are very focused on sexuality. Your picture in the OP really sets off all kinds of bells. That is what you chose to post when you introduced this situation to us.

As a transsexual, you really can't make any promises to her(other than doing your best) and she has to deal with it. If the GD gets worse, it will never get better until you deal with it, and that will mean breaking promises
"sorry honey, i have to start HRT(or present more,
Kaitlyn,On one hand you speak of HRT,and on the other hand,you speak of"presenting more"....Yet you downplay this course of action because it didn't work for you however,you didn't really put yourself out there either..No,the CD mindset is not the middle path mindset..that is not what I speak of.

[LoriFlores]

Design a life and then take the steps to actually live it..You are still in the fantasy stage at this time.

Hi Rogina, Not sure how to interpret this post. A fantasy that we can make this work or something different? I think of a fantasy as something wonderful, I don't think that any of this process has been "wonderful", it has actually been quite painful and full of apprehension about the ultimate outcome :straightface:


I think its smart to take it day by day and communicate effectively. It's smart to help your wife understand you are trying but you need to do what's medically necessary to manage your gender dysphoria, and then do it.

I will try to follow this advise. It seems like a plan to continue moving forward and living life.

[LeaP]

Kaitlyn,On one hand you speak of ...

I think you may have missed the point. Kaitlyn's is not a prescription for a specific action, but for a try it until you find the solution approach. And that (not cross-dressing) did work for her. That it led to transition renders your comment that she never put herself out there more than a little ironic, don't you think?

[Rogina B]

Lea P, I believe that some members here are actually encouraging others to get ahead of themselves which often results in a social mess.It isn't wrong for someone to take steps toward "experiencing some of the life" that they claim they need so badly. Lori Flores could take some steps toward experiencing life as a TG woman,before blowing up her world,possibly for no gain. Social transition is a huge part of total transition,as I see it.This does not happen overnight yet sometimes it is believed that "your change" will be instantly accepted by those around you..["You" is not directed at anyone] Proving you can live the life means a lot.

[Rianna Humble]

Rogina, it is funny how you and several other crossdressers pop in here from time to time with that accusation. Usually without any foundation but occasionally, as here, by taking TS members' words out of context then twisting their meaning. If you genuinely believe that a post is trying to push people too fast - rather than pointing out as in the quote that you edited that when Gender Dysphoria becomes intolerable, you may find yourself having to go further than you anticipated - PM a moderator or an administrator ad let staff deal with it.

[becky77]

And what's more, there are a number of us here that swore over and over we loved women, and it didn't turn out that way. Perhaps you know for sure, but again you will find out for yourself.

I believe this part is only dicoverable when fully transitioning. I found when I first started down the Transition path I was very much single minded in how I thought about things, but most of it came from a life of holding up barriers and trying my best to be 'normal', of course that natural femaleness inside me was always difficult to truly keep hidden and therefore it was often thought by people that I was gay.
I wasn't gay!!
I did not find men attractive (as a man) and I certainly don't want a guy that want's to touch male parts (just my feelings, i'm not against it for others).
I tried so hard to avoid people thinking of me as a gay (no one ever thinks Trans!), that it never ever occured to me to consider men in anyway, I was totally closed off to it..... Until Transition.
Oh and at some stage I promised my wife I would never transition, at another I promised I didn't like men, both times I believed it myself.

When you Transition you open your mind and free yourself of all the conditioning you have made yourself go through to fit in as a guy. This awakening made me realise I did like men but as a woman, I like straight men.
In essense I want sex with a man as a woman, but not as a man, there is a huge difference between the two but I think it's only something you can't come to terms with, when you actually open yourself up to being and living as a woman. Transition changes you, Hormones change you, your future becomes an open book and all things are possible. One of those things is your sexuality, so although I totally agree GD and Sexuality are not linked, I do believe that it needs to be re-evaluated.

Many here are still very much into women and you maybe one of them, but be open to the idea that it could change.



Lea P, I believe that some members here are actually encouraging others to get ahead of themselves which often results in a social mess.It isn't wrong for someone to take steps toward "experiencing some of the life" that they claim they need so badly. Lori Flores could take some steps toward experiencing life as a TG woman,before blowing up her world,possibly for no gain. Social transition is a huge part of total transition,as I see it.This does not happen overnight yet sometimes it is believed that "your change" will be instantly accepted by those around you..["You" is not directed at anyone] Proving you can live the life means a lot.

Rogina, I haven't seen that. This thread started with the announcement of taking the middle path 'of Transition'. Not just the middle path. I don't see how there is a middle path to transition? Transition is going from one thing to another, the awkward few years we suffer getting from the male to female. A middle path of Transition is basically stopping, it's not Transition.
Now living a middle path is fine and I think if you can do it then great, because full transition is tough. Control your GD in whatever way you can, but don't call it Transition, it's not!
What's "Life as a T-Girl"??
I'm not being funny but I have T-Girl friends and they go to clubs together and nights out and some even go shopping together, it's great and they all feel good being out. But really it is only a taster and doesn't prove anything. These people have no idea what it's like to live as a woman, when they can fall back on being a man when something gets tough. The few T-Girl friends I have think it's all dress up and going out, it's more like going to a garage for a car repair and getting treated like your an idiot, even my Dad now dismisses my opinion as lesser. The effects of Male privilege can only be realised when you begin to immerse yourself in a woman's world.

A former Trans-woman that had fully transitioned, was on TV a few months ago saying that at first it was great, social events were great and men opened doors for her etc, but after a while she couldn't cope with how she was being treated by men and things were difficult. So she detransitioned and was on TV telling everyone how the 'Gatekeepers' didn't truly help her. In my opinion he (he is male again now) had the completly wrong idea of life as a woman, he probably had some idealized view. I would say he wasn't TS in the first place and had he had some decent RLE experience beforehand would have realised it isn't what you may think it is.
I will always espouse the virtues of experience first, but that experience has to be real life everyday stuff.

I had a hair transplant recently and had to go no make-up, no wig and only in scrubs (still have a little dark hair on my top lip to add to it). My partner said why don't you just go in male mode, but it wasn't an option for me. Since a good year now I have vowed to do everything as female regardless of how awkward it might be. So yeah, I felt crappy sitting there exposed with everyone calling me Rebecca, the stange looks from some of the technicians. But that's life, I don't think you can take yourself serious if you opt out when it gets ropey.

So no disrespect, but after a tough year for me, I can't take a middle path Transition where nothing happens and a picture of two lesbians on a beach seriously. It might be a good idea to explain the meaning behind that picture?

[PretzelGirl]

One of those things is your sexuality, so although I totally agree GD and Sexuality are not linked, I do believe that it needs to be re-evaluated.

Many here are still very much into women and you maybe one of them, but be open to the idea that it could change.

Well written Becky. I never had a problem recognizing that a man was handsome and might say so with a trusted individual, like my wife, but saying so openly could get you ridiculed by the "man club" (in my past anyway). So there could be a certain level of packing it away internally because of the social implications. Now that we transitioned, those implications aren't there. So maybe attractions to men could be hormonal, or maybe they could just be freeing our minds from perceived social implications. I am still not sure myself. I am fortunate that I am still in the same relationship, so I think not having the need to explore that side of me leaves me where I just don't know.

Back to middle path. When I started out, I always said "I am a crossdresser and I don't think I will ever transition". But once I started getting out, my life moved to being near full time outside of work. Because I also started laser/electrolysis, I feel I was well within the realm of what many of my middle path friends were doing and feeling, so I could have been identified as a middle pather. So I see things somewhere in the middle. You do learn a lot in the middle path. I have no doubt that those years went a long way to me accepting myself and having a smoother transition. I thought I wasn't transitioning, but that changed for me. For others, they have gone many years in the middle. So while it is no where near transitioning because you can fall back to male mode if something is really tough, it depends on where you draw your lines. Mine was automotive services. Something about it made me nervous. But I certainly had experiences of handing over my ID or saying my name or getting looks. I was doing what felt right and I was happy, so I got used to it pretty quick. That was part of what told me it was the right thing. So while it didn't work for me in the long haul, it was a good thing to try since I wasn't in a negative life situation where I had to transition now. And because of that, I probably gained more acceptance from those around me since they were able to come along slowly with me.

So I think of three middle pathers that I at least know a little bit about each of their lives. I would say from my perspective, and they might argue, that they are strong and healthy people who are doing it for family reasons and although they certainly go through stressors at points, they are managing it. So that tells me that the amount they present gives them regular control of their GD but the peaks can be difficult. Because they have regular control, they choose not to risk losing family. Absolutely more power to them and I support them 100%. Some day these experiences may help them transition in an easier manner or they may keep their happiness right where it is.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Rogina you totally and completely are making that up. You totally missed my point. Almost laughably.

If you didnt understand what i wrote, and then go on to make a general criticism of members here based on what i wrote, it makes no sense. It shows you are reading this stuff with a bias or agenda.

You need to reconsider your train of thought and bring it up to a credible standard.

And frankly i don't think i could have been clearer.
I don't like being misrepresented. Especially in the context of this stuff.

The point of action I downplayed is making long term pronouncements of what you'll do or not do.
This is good advice for everyone that suffers GD because GD often gets worse no matter what you do.

I believe any cd or ts that suffers gender dysphoria can improve their quality of life and find out about themselves by presenting more

...i shouldn't have to repeat myself but you make it necessary.

[LoriFlores]

So no disrespect, but after a tough year for me, I can't take a middle path Transition where nothing happens and a picture of two lesbians on a beach seriously. It might be a good idea to explain the meaning behind that picture?

Becky, thanks for your thoughts. Seems I could have chosen my words better here too. Maybe middle path to transition would have been more precise??

The picture was meant to represent where I am in my mind, both in life and in our marriage. A woman loving a woman. Its a beautiful picture which has meaning to me, maybe in representing my shifted [or fully understood, or self accepting, or becoming more open with] mindset. This is what it means to [B]me and is serious, important, and calming to me.

I'm sorry if I'm not more articulate with my words or in explaining my feelings.

[Carlene]

Lori, you don't need to keep apologizing. Many of us in this forum are struggling with our identities, whether or not we will ever be able to fully develop and express them, and so on. We have also had little opportunity to interact with other people like us, thus leaving us, not exactly knowing how to socialize. As a result we may say things that others may find offensive.

Whether you are a cd or a ts may or may not become clear over time, but I wish you the best in finding peace.

Carlene

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I respect that the picture is important to you.
I am sorry if i made you feel bad about it.
My point to you is that this is very serious and a picture is not going to cut it.
I did take your message very seriously and i hope that you understood what i was trying to say

It is a wonderful thing if you've made a breakthrough in how you view yourself, but at that point it becomes very serious and will have a big impact on your quality of life and there are a litany of non constructive thoughts, ideas and behaviors we've all collectively experienced(one of the biggies being getting way ahead of yourself)...as i said, you get to do what you want but its good to see all the points of view and decide what resonates for YOU...

[Jorja]

So, you have explained your view of this relationship which is (as I understand) a woman loving a woman. There is nothing wrong with that. Does your wife/SO have the same image of the relationship? If so, what is the problem, make it happen.

[becky77]

Hi Lori

Having been through all this with my wife several years back, my concern is that your picture is unrealistic and therefore unhealthy to use as inspiration.
My wife loved me and wanted to help, yet she also did everything she could to hold on to the male, including not using and hiding from my female name. She wasn't and never will be a lesbian and I fear from your messages that your wife is the same.
I'm sure your wife loves you and wants to help, but I doubt that picture is very appealing to her.
If the two of you are of different minds in how this will progress, it will be all the harder for you going forward.
I do hope you can find a way to keep your marriage and control your GD, but be realistic about where it might go.

[LeaP]

I agree. Best to avoid feeding anything fantasy-like.

[Tina_gm]

From what I am reading, the middle path does not seem like an easy road, but then none of the roads on the TG map are. CDers to TS and everyone in between, it is a hard road for us to traverse. No contest necessary as to who has it the hardest, I am not going to make any suggestions as to such. Just that everyone has a hard road. I do think though that someone attempting the path, even though it is a path that often has failure or tough consequences as a result, that doesn't mean that for some it can't be accomplished. Maybe within a minority there is a minority that can pull it off?? I don't believe they should be discouraged from trying. Yes, letting them know that it doesn't often succeed, but we all should try to navigate our paths as we wish to, even if it is a road less traveled.