SO Meltdown

[pamela7]

So last night I put on a bra with inserts, and my very agreeable and tolerant wife "lost it". She said she felt redundant.
I reassured her and we made love wonderfully, but today she's sad and whistful for the days before.
I did not put a bra on today, but I have been dressed.

How have you re-assured your SO and/or helped them to realise you still love them as much as ever?


thanks Pamela

[Sandra]

So she said she feels redundant yet today you still put a dress on that's a bit like rubbing her nose in it. What might have been better was to dress in drab and sit down and talk more to her about her feelings and why she is feeling like she is.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

If the meltdown was followed by wonderful lovemaking, then all is not lost. Make love to her wonderfully often, and she will know she is not redundant.

[Erika Lyne]

Pamela,

Sounds like she has a limit but has not voiced it clearly. Maybe a dinner date with you in drab mode and her conversation topics. I hate putting my Erika self aside but sometimes I have to for the person I committed to and who committed to me.

Just a thought,
-E

[pamela7]

Thank you Nikki and Sandra,
Good points. We did speak extensively first, in drab, and its the bra that seems to be the trigger, so it's off until she is ok. We talk all the time, but here i think it hit a deeper root in her psyche. Yes, days and time in drab are a good plan, I'll do that, its a louder action than words.

Sounds a plan, too, Erika, thanks

:-)

[Teresa]

Pamela,
Sadly I'm getting a series of meltdowns without any intimate contact at all !!

[Confucius]

My wife does not support my dressing, but she does love me and tries to make everything work. So, I tell her that she comes first in my life and I let her set the boundaries. If something is beyond her tolerances then she lets me know. For instance, wigs are out. Also I do NOT adopt a feminine name. I don't pretend that women's clothing magically transform me into a woman. I am just a man in a dress.

I suggest that you tell her that if anything about your cross-dressing is beyond her tolerances then just say so, and it goes out. Tell her that you want to set your limits in accordance with her tolerances.

[pamela7]

Confucius very wise ... we've been agreeing bounds, and she knows she has the say, but taking it further into her control, yes, and I think also have to 2nd-guess so she does not even need to ask ...

and yes Teresa, I have seen many of your posts, and really feel for your situation. I know I'm blessed with how lucky I have been.

xxx

[FeliciaMCD]

I run in to situations like this with my wife. I think it's pretty common.

Usually mine are where she says yes to a request, but she isn't really comfortable with it so she removes herself from the situation and I feel ignored. At that point I'll just let the time play out, but afterward I'll go in guy mode and try not to bug her about it.

This happened yesterday when I asked to borrow a cami she has. She had told me "just ask" if I wanted to try something of hers... but that cami was her favorite one, so despite her saying yes she didn't care for me wearing it. However, I know everything is okay because after I undressed and we got ready to go out for the day, she suggested I get my own pink lace trimmed cami. Too bad we couldn't find one for a fair price locally. But at least I know she's trying.

Now I'm working on restraining myself. She gave me an inch and I don't want to take the mile.

[Krisi]

It's hard for a woman who married a "man" to come to terms with him dressing and looking like a woman. Often they will go back and forth on their level of acceptance. Make sure she knows you love and appreciate her and her understanding.

And hold off on the bra and forms in the bedroom.

[Nadine Spirit]

People are more than just a collection of parts.

She thinks she is redundant because you put on a bra with inserts? Because why, she thinks she is only a set of boobs? Even worse, she thinks she is no better than a pair of fake boobs? So.... I can assume there is a bit more going on here.

Ignoring that and answering the question: I have let my wife know that I love her by doing everything that I have always done. - doing things for her, - caring for her, - being attentive to her needs, - talking & listening to her, - touching & cuddling her, - making sure I go above & beyond in doing more than my share of work around the house

You know, basically letting her know that she is the queen of my world.

[kimdl93]

there's really only one way - keep talking. She may see the breast forms as a substitute for her. Your task is to help her understand that you wear breast forms to express your gender identity, not to become your own surrogate sex partner. That may take some doing, but you have time. Make good use of it

[Marcelle]

Hi Pamela,

It appears that the "bra and forms" are only a catalyst for the underlying issue as she has been tolerant up until now. It could be that things are progressing at too fast a pace for her and this is just one more step toward what she may see as you wanting to potentially transition. I believe a sit down discussion about why you think it is import to wear a bra and forms and why she does not like that. Common ground may be reached but you both need to communicate about what you both can live with and without when it comes to your dressing.

WRT reassuring my wife I still love her . . . well, I do what any partner should do, I am there for her, support her, listen to her and when we argue I make-up with her. That doesn't have to change because I dress.

Hugs

Isha

[Eryn]

I will agree with Isha. There's probably more to this than a bra and forms. It's time for a long discussion that may wind all over before you get to the bottom of the issue. Even then, emotions are tricky things. This is not the time to show off a new nightgown!

Some GGs may value themselves by the physical and clothing differences they can exhibit for their men. That's what keeps Victoria's Secret in business. When we start indulging in the same items their attitude may be "why should I bother, he's in love with himself!"

Your job is to convey the message that you value her for her, and your dressing does not diminish your appreciation for her or for the way she appears. In fact, the opposite is likely true.

[Stephanie47]

I know I am going to be the odd man out here. Years ago, probably 1982 or 1983, our daughter opened the bottom draw to my amoire and pulled a red Vanity Fair bra out of my stash. At the time I did not have a lot of femme clothing: several slips, nighties, some hosiery, a few panties. My wife and I had dabbled in lingerie bedroom play for awhile after we were newly married. It would probably be categorized as "bedroom play." As a kid and teenager I had dabbled in my mom's lingerie draw, but, stopped after awhile. My wife took the red bra away from our daughter, and, she shook her head. She could not understand why a guy would want to wear a bra, if he had nothing to "pack into it." That episode and the subsequent "talks" turned her off to my cross dressing.

A guy wearing women's attire is not something the vast majority of women seem to voluntarily sign on for in a marriage. And, if they are tolerant in the beginning they can grow tired of it, especially when cross dressing seems to become too much a part of it.

After some years of pestering/suggesting/encouraging my wife to buy me a pair of panties for my birthday, we finally went to a Mervyn's to shop. It was too much of an ordeal for her. She was uncomfortable. More than uncomfortable. I finally realized I did not need her to buy me panties for self validation. I could see the effect it had on her, and, as I have said in several threads my actions were nothing short of spousal mental abuse.

I will agree with those comments above that your wife probably has some serious issues with your cross dressing. You probably stepped over the line with the bra and forms. Even before you got to that line, you probably nudged the line a little further several times in the past. I really dislike much of the advice offered to "take it slow" and slowly get your way. Just redraw the line a little further in your direction.

Yes, there are some women who seem to be fully engaged with their husbands' cross dressing. But, there are many more that "just play along" because they really do not know how to handle it all.

[pamela7]

Thank you ALL,

So much useful insights and all aligns, we're talking all the time, and yes processing deeper roots, and showing she's the one, and it is working, and she is now very clear she is in control of the dressing and outing. We've agreed on an "androgynous" look going out together today, kind of ambiguous. I offered full drab, but she's keen to take this step.

thank you everyone again, this forum is so helpful.

:-)))

[Eryn]

We've agreed on an "androgynous" look going out together today, kind of ambiguous. I offered full drab, but she's keen to take this step.

This is a good compromise. I do androgynous when in my no-fly-zone and occasionally even get ma'amed! :)

[StephiSpring]

While reading this, I went from tears to a smile. My heart was breaking for you. We all have emotional swings that affect how we see things in life, even the GGs in our lives are not immune.

Stephi Spring

[Tina_gm]

I know I am going to be the odd man out here. Years ago, probably 1982 or 1983, our daughter opened the bottom draw to my amoire and pulled a red Vanity Fair bra out of my stash. At the time I did not have a lot of femme clothing: several slips, nighties, some hosiery, a few panties. My wife and I had dabbled in lingerie bedroom play for awhile after we were newly married. It would probably be categorized as "bedroom play." As a kid and teenager I had dabbled in my mom's lingerie draw, but, stopped after awhile. My wife took the red bra away from our daughter, and, she shook her head. She could not understand why a guy would want to wear a bra, if he had nothing to "pack into it." That episode and the subsequent "talks" turned her off to my cross dressing.

A guy wearing women's attire is not something the vast majority of women seem to voluntarily sign on for in a marriage. And, if they are tolerant in the beginning they can grow tired of it, especially when cross dressing seems to become too much a part of it.

After some years of pestering/suggesting/encouraging my wife to buy me a pair of panties for my birthday, we finally went to a Mervyn's to shop. It was too much of an ordeal for her. She was uncomfortable. More than uncomfortable. I finally realized I did not need her to buy me panties for self validation. I could see the effect it had on her, and, as I have said in several threads my actions were nothing short of spousal mental abuse.

I will agree with those comments above that your wife probably has some serious issues with your cross dressing. You probably stepped over the line with the bra and forms. Even before you got to that line, you probably nudged the line a little further several times in the past. I really dislike much of the advice offered to "take it slow" and slowly get your way. Just redraw the line a little further in your direction.

Yes, there are some women who seem to be fully engaged with their husbands' cross dressing. But, there are many more that "just play along" because they really do not know how to handle it all.

Hope I can quote all of this message.... I think it is so vital. Stephanie, all of what you said here needs to be read again and again. One of the greatest compromises or simply that which we the CDer should accept is how our partner really feels about all of it and accept it. No, they don't have to like it. It may be too much for them to ever "like" it. Also remember, each individual person has their own triggers of what they like, what they accept, what works for them, what doesn't. Some GG's don't mind the shaving of body hair, some feel that is a bigger deal than panties or a bra. Accept this. Work with her, if she is ultimately your number one priority. My wife can handle shaving ok, doesn't really mind it. A bra would be much harder for her. Some may feel the opposite. Just as we CDers find certain ways of expressing our femininity individual ( I could care less about bras personally) but shaving is great, so I am lucky in that regard.

[mechamoose]

Redundant? Really?

It is only redundant if relationships are one XX and one XY. I know LOTS of happy couples that don't fit that.

You didn't get to pick your gender, genetics, weight or size. NONE of that has to do with who YOU are or who SHE is ('cause she didn't get to pick *either*)

Are you guys BFFs or not?

If so, the rest doesn't (shouldn't) matter.

<3

-MM

[Sierra_juliette]

Although I appreciate that CD is not a choice, as a very extremely supportive GG, I am offended that you seem to be implying that the SO's feeling redundant isn't valid or fair? I hope that is not the case.

As the SO of someone in this forum, I can say I am often appalled by some of the closed-minded statements I read from CDers!! I sometimes wish I could reach into the forum and give yall a wake up shake!! All too often I read posts or responses about wishing SO would or could accept and understand or allow more or participate or not insist on DADT, this is ridiculousness and in my opinion hypocritical! If you invalidate your SO's feelings about your dressing, you are doing exactly what you all dislike, judging someone based on what they feel inside. She cannot control how she feels about something anymore than you can truly control dressing.

[anna kate]

I tell my wife several times a day that I love her. Also tell her that I would not be where I am today (financial or otherwise) without her. Evenings, when we are watching the tube, I'll quip, "I want your body". She usually laughs at that, but then sometimes...
My wife is tolerant about my dressing, but has agreed to some concessions or boundaries, if you will. Trying to keep her happy is a goal I strive for, everybody knows (or should) that if Mamma is happy, everybody is happy. That's my suggestion, do things that will make/keep her happy. Bring her some flowers once in a while, I'll fix dinner tonight Hon, Can I make the salad tonight?
We were married 25 years when I came out to my wife (was a really scary time), we are now married 49 years. All of them were happy, even with the few bumps I put in the way.
Don't know if this is the answer you are looking for, love her and let her know it, not just the physical part, what's in your mind too.

[mechamoose]

I can't speak to some of your concerns.. I'm too close to it.

I *know* that you folks have had your world inverted. They love you, and they didn't mean to hurt you. They *desperately* want you to understand *THEM*. They already feel like fish out of water. They just want someone to *see* them and not miss a beat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park\

We want to be ACCEPTED. We want to be NORMAL.

- MM

[pamela7]

Thank you Sierra, in no way did i intend to invalidate my SO's feelings, they have precedence for me. We have gone past that, she feels re-assured, and it was me saying no to her suggestion of me wearing a bra earlier today. Her love and our relationship are paramount to me.

Please do Sierra, reach-in and shake us up. I will say this about that, though. This is a group of men, often aged from times of strong emotional illiteracy among men, that we can even spell emotions is sometimes surprising. This is a rare opportunity for me/us to explore things more feminine, like a blind man in the daylight of life feminine. We're going to be clumsy, not by intent, we're going to make statements that sound judgemental that are simply badly worded, we're humans denied the anima by our upbringings, reaching out to integrate what should be a natural part of ourselves.

If you think of us as "female-perception-disabled", but nonetheless the most open, supportive, helpful and loving group of men i've met, then this is something great, and be a mentor to us, don't go the path of male blame and judgement, please.

xxx Pamela

[Sierra_juliette]

I absolutely didn't feel that you invalidated her feelings, my post was more as a response to another response suggesting that her feelings didn't matter.

I think that it is a delicate balance and definitely a compromise on both sides in many cases to make it work. I am thankful that my marriage is fairly easy and neither of us have to compromise much if at all but I have been in a relationship that required me as the GG to do ALL of the compromising and it was a soul crushing experience.

[pamela7]

I feel that Sierra, I am pleased for you in finding a relationship where you do not have to compromise yourself.

xxx

[Stephanie Julianna]

When they get into that funk you sometimes have to back off and give them a break. They love you and that is why they tolerate this part of us but they sometimes need a break.

[cdncdwife]

As a GG I can understand. And to be completely honest sometimes we surprise ourselves and don't know what we're feeling or want. Emotions can creep up unexpectedly and catch us off guard even when we've been fine up to that point. We all realize this makes us a little crazy at times but it doesn't change the fact that our feelings are valid, as you seem to understand that. We need some love, patience and time to process and get our self back together again. My suggestion would be to keep being loving and supportive, make sure that she absolutely knows you are 100% committed to her, make love regularly and don't rush, do things together to build your relationship and if she is willing, do a little shopping together with her as your consultant. What helped me was having regular time together, talking it out, and having friends online I could discuss my worries with and get some feedback from. It's hard for women if we can't talk out our concerns and the wife of a private or closeted CD doesn't have many options. You might be the only person we can chat to, so please be relaxed, don't take offense and hang in there. This is a journey for all of us, SO's included. Some great advice on this thread and n the forums in general, I'm sure learning a lot.

[pamela7]

Thank you cdncdwife,
it's happening as you say. Yesterday we had a lovely time shopping, for both of us, today she's making me a skirt, and we're making love more than ever. In fact life is even better, for which I am truly blessed. Her main thing is worry for me, my reputation, what others think, things that i don't worry about but which it seems i should, as people just dont seem to live and let live like we do.

xxx

[Kate T]

All too often I read posts or responses about wishing SO would or could accept and understand or allow more or participate or not insist on DADT, this is ridiculousness and in my opinion hypocritical! If you invalidate your SO's feelings about your dressing, you are doing exactly what you all dislike, judging someone based on what they feel inside. She cannot control how she feels about something anymore than you can truly control dressing.

Sierra. I will agree that occasionally it would be nice to tell members to take a good long hard look in the mirror. However I will play devils advocate on your above statements as I think there are perhaps some aspects that maybe SO's need also to look at.

I have stated before on these forums that I think SO's feelings can be broadly broken down into 2 underlying groups. There are the fears and feelings that originate in their innate sense of themselves and their sexuality. These are at the core of who they are and you are right Sierra, any CD / TS who tries to "alter" or bemoans that part of their SO is being frankly a little hypocritical.

HOWEVER there are feelings and concerns that SO's have that originate in their fears or expectations of "what others will think". These are mostly along the lines of "People would stare at us if we were out it would be so embarrassing" etc. An SO who is not willing to challenge those fears in my opinion is being unfair to the CD.

[suzanne]

Sometimes it's kind of hard to know where a woman draws her line in the sand, if there is one. At one time, my wife had a zero tolerance for my CDing, but has learned to relax. Still, I sense she has a level at which she is uncomfortable with me, I just don't know where that is yet and don't want to push too far too fast. If a woman has a "no-go" zone, a bra would seem logical.

[Alice Torn]

I am one of the tiny few on here who has never had a wife or SO, but, I imagine, you and her need to talk, and make a compromise, and boundries with this.

[Sierra_juliette]

I agree that some SOs may change the line, the best I can recommend is to make it clear that you want her to be open and communicate what is okay, what makes her uncomfortable AND when/if that changes either way.

If she is open to more or wanting less, to express that. It is important for the person that CD to explain that there is a fear of pushing too much and thus MANY will not bring it up themselves after the first talk for fear of upsetting the SO. If she understands that you are open to communication now and down the road it will make it a little easier for her to also then bring it up if she has questions or feel an adjustment in the 'line' is possibly needed.

[pamela7]

yes, boundaries and lines and talking all important.

what though, if my own boundary keeps moving? one thing leads to another sometimes, then its about discussing this, explaining changes as they happen, and trusting in the flow

[trishacd]

My wife accepts shaving which i luv,i told her some time ago that i would be lying if i said i would stop crossdressing,because i couldnt. About the only thing i kep in the open are a lot of panties,nylons and a few other things.We went out to dinner last night and i had panties and pantyhose on.I know she knows i underdress all the time.I just feel lucky and hope she comes to let me do more.There was a time she would let me dress when we had sex.that was fun.If she saw me with forms,wig,jewelery ect she would not be happy.Im lucky for what i have and think its better not to push my luck.

[Angela Marie]

I told my wife after our second date. There was no way I could keep that a secret. She was cool with it. A few months Later we went on a trip and I got a makeover. She was literally stunned by how good I looked. I think it was a bit disconcerting to her. Nonetheless she is supportive. She does not go out with me but we kid about it all the time and she'll pick me up makeup or a new bra if I ask.

[Beverley Sims]

These meltdowns occur now and then, I usually back off briefly and then quietly continue.

[ReineD]

So last night I put on a bra with inserts, and my very agreeable and tolerant wife "lost it". She said she felt redundant.
I reassured her and we made love wonderfully, but today she's sad and whistful for the days before.

1. Did you put on the bra and forms to just spend an evening together and the love making happened at the end of the evening once you took off the bra and forms?

2. Or, did you put on the bra and forms specifically for the love making?

If it's (2), then I understand where your wife is coming from. Her expectation might be that she is the one who arouses you (not the bra and forms), and so she wonders why they are necessary?

If it's (1), it could be as others have suggested that you are going too fast. She might also not understand why it is so important for you to look like you have the top part of a woman's body. Many men sexualize breasts (look at the not babes on porn sites and magazines like Playboy), and since your wife has a perfectly good pair of breasts that she likely wants you to appreciate, she might wonder why you feel that you additionally need your own. This might cause her to wonder if she is not good enough for you.

[PaulaQ]

Even people who are trying to accept your CDing have limits. There are a variety of really common ones:
- breasts
- hair (either on your head, or on your body)
- makeup
- being fully dressed, as opposed to just lingerie

It would seem like you hit one of her limits. Our culture does not deal well with men who present in a feminine manner. She is having to unlearn a lot of socialization she's learned over her lifetime. It's hard to unlearn this stuff. Also, almost no one in the cis world has to think about gender in this way.

And look - most of us have limits too. Those may change (and often do), expanding over time, but many of us will only go so far at first. So you do have to understand that this is a challenge for your wife, she's having to grow and change too. But unlike you, she gets no relief from gender dysphoria by your dressing. Hopefully she gets some happiness from seeing you feel better, but there's a decent chance she actually feels worse about things. That happens pretty often.

I think you need to talk to her about her feelings on all of this.

[pamela7]

thanks everyone, we've moved on a long way since, just been out shopping together for my first wig, and an evening with a CD/TG group - the both of us.
It's now all "normal" and accepted, I can go out, be seen, as long as its full-on dressed. Life just gets better. :-))

[Nikkilovesdresses]

You're sure this Welshy is real, not you logging in under 2 different names Pamela? Shurely she's 2gd2b true?

Wait- maybe this whole site is just you logging in under different usernames...??

[Samantha Clark]

Ha! Nikki, do you want the blue pill or the red pill? :D

[pamela7]

yeah i can offer the real red pill if you like - the tricky one is the blue pill ... :-))
sure she's real Nikki, she's met real forum people in the flesh, yes she is too good to be true, to quote an awesome film "George just lucky, I guess." [George of the Jungle]
she is 1 in a million (or several)
[apparently I should have said "unique"!]