From a GG's perspective

[Sierra_juliette]

I have to get something off my chest and many people in this forum may not like it but I think it is important to say.

The CD world is one that I think we all know is very misunderstood and frankly suffers from the close-minded societal expectations of the male gender. HOWEVER, on a daily basis I come to this forum and am appalled, offended and frankly a little worried about some of the things I read. First of all, I understand this forum is a vent for many, I get it but it is also the first website that a scared SO or new dresser will find through google searching and THAT scares me after reading posts over the past year.

I have seen many confused posts, from new/young dressers as well as SO's that just had their lives altered forever finding out their husband or boyfriend wears female clothing. All too often the responses are so quick to diagnose the CDer as on a one way train to transitioning, that it is an ever growing monster from which no one can escape. This would scare the hell out of me if I had come here with no knowledge trying to decide if I can handle it.

Now, if, and this is a big if, I wasn't scared away by the impending, definitely going to happen transition that was diagnosed by random person, I surely would be once I read some of the advice given to each other in some posts. Just today I read posts complaining about limits, begging for acceptance, talking about how you cannot ever escape dressing and it will always spiral and the world doesn't understand and wives are unfair and and and

STOP IT! Please for the love of all things holy please stop and think about what you are saying and more importantly what you are telling the world. Here you are, a collectibles great group of people from all walks or life that just want the freedom to express themselves in the clothing that they prefer yet you are either completely intolerant of the feelings of your SO that is staying by your side but insisting on DADT, limits or boundaries, SERIOUSLY? I see the vast majority talk about how dressing makes you FEEL, yet you selfishly want to invalidate the feelings of an SO, child, friend, parent or other family?!? Yeah a perfect world no one would care or have any feeling whatsoever about what you wear, but that ain't the world we live in, so most likely your SO or whoever else is going to have an opinion and feelings about it, so deal with it. You don't get to decide how people feel, just like they don't get to decide what you prefer to wear. If you want someone to respect your choice of clothing you also have to respect their comfort level! I mean seriously, I prefer to not wear clothes at home, but my 4 teenagers feel more comfortable when I do, so I do! It isn't that they don't accept that I like being naked, it just makes them uncomfortable! I could seriously go on and on about this but I think you get my point.

The last point I have is quit hiding and lying! If you truly love your SO and respect her, give her the option to accept you, do not force her to live a lie, it is selfish and just wrong. If you think she wouldn't accept you or it would end the relationship, well, newsflash, it shouldn't be. What I mean is, if she doesn't love and respect you enough to accept you, why are you there?!?! I get it, you love her, but really, honestly, are either of you truly living a life of love if is full of lies? Imagine for just one minute how she would feel if tomorrow you were released from your mortal coil, what would that mean to her. Yeah yeah I hear you, but my hidden stash has a note explaining everything. She will be fine. Soooooo if you think she will be fine, TELL HER! I mean even the most accepting person in the world would have questions after finding that note but you are denying her the ability to ask ANYTHING, yet she will absolutely question EVERYTHING! If my SO hid it from me and I found a note and stash of female clothing I would wonder had I lived and loves a lie? Did he really love me? Was he gay? Why didn't he tell me? Did he think so little of me? The list of questions goes on and on

So, I say, how dare you deny this woman who you claim to love, respect and want to protect, the chance to actually know you, to be able to make a decision for herself and live a truly honest and fulfilled life. Give her the chance to make an informed decision on how she gets to live her life.

I am not saying drop everything and tell her now, but tell her! She deserves to know and YOU deserve to be accepted.

[toniloraine]

Great post i agree

[AnnieMac]

Sierra .. I don't know what to say. I am rather speechless deeply thinking about your comments. I am a cross dresser, yes that is true. I guess I want to say I agree with you 100% .. but . .
My cross dressing, is mostly all fun and games for me, I don't take it very seriously, I just find it fun to dress up when I have the house to myself, and experience a little female-ness when I am alone, it is a pretty singular activity with me. I have been doing it so long by myself, I'm not sure I would know how to, or welcome sharing it with others. My wife does not know, and I guess if she accidentally found out I would tell her about it. However, my CD activities in no way control or affect our lives in any way. In some ways, I find to hard to imagine these guys, yes we are guys, on this forum trying to force their SOs to get involved with it. Let me think about your comments more, and maybe hear some others out. They have affected me strongly, and I am listening to you! I really thank you for your tough love comments, because there I many times when I read comments on this forum, I want to say to the poster, gee, get real, you are delusional as to how other's see you. Perhaps I need include myself in that last comment. Thank you Sierra.

[Dianne S]

Sierra, I get what you're saying. But I know lots of trans people across the whole trans spectrum, and I think I can say with certainty: For the vast majority of crossdressers, the urge never goes away and usually gets stronger as they get older. I don't want to scare off SOs, but I think there's no point in sugar-coating the truth: It's not going to go away and the more you try to suppress it, the more preoccupied the CDer will become.

The trick is finding a balance both partners can live with, assuming that's possible. We have to acknowledge that it isn't always possible.

I also completely agree with your standpoint on disclosure, but on the other hand, I don't live other people's lives and I can't know what they have to lose if they disclose. So while I would say "Yes, disclosure is the best", I would never judge someone who has decided not to disclose.

[AnnieMac]

. . and when it's naked time at your house, can I come over and share . . ( kidding, kidding, kidding) -that's the un-female, bad-boy side of my nature there, that I cannot leave a good joke just lie there . .

All kidding aside, I will think about your comments for quite awhile! Thanks!

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Sierra,
Nice rant, I hope that relieved some stress.
There are so many different life stories here that there is no way to say
what is the right way to live a CD life.
Granted I kept my secret for a very long time.
Things do seem different, better, now that she knows.
Why I kept it to myself was just the fear of be ridiculed,
If I didn't understand it, how do I expect her to, you know, you've
heard all this before.
But there was also the life we have built together., both of our lives
were, and are, so dependent on one another.
What if this was the thing that tore it apart?
I would consider it to have been my fault.
Could I live with that? No way!
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Jenniferathome]

Sierra, I get your frustration. I have written many a post to the SO's of cross dressers warning them about the fluff and noise on this forum. I really do believe it is the vocal minority but there is a lot of it. This forum really does ebb and flow. Some very noisy members drop in, rant, and fade away. Others are consistent. It is great that you are here. If you don't like something call it out.

Unfortunately, like sweeping back the ocean with a broom, it's hard to keep up, BUT... you will make a dent or two and impact someone's life in a meaningful way. That's what keeps me here.

[Sierra_juliette]

I absolutely do not mean go out and force your SO to participate, if it is just a alone time thing, great but imagine the aftermath of what it may do to her if you leave her behind. Doesn't she deserve the respect of knowing and being able to ask questions?

As for fear of ridicule, I get it. I lived in a very violent physically and mentally abusive marriage for 17 years, I was ridiculed for nothing other than breathing. I have had bones broken. Permanent damage to my spine, choked completely out, had to testify in against him in court for attempted murder (yes against me) so if anyone knows fear of anything in a relationship it is me. But who are we kidding? Really? By hiding all you are doing is showing the rest of the world including the SO, who very most likely knows by now, that it is shameful and shouldnt be accepted. Is this the legacy you want to leave behind for the next generation of crossdressers to overcome?!?

Newsflash, there will be no widespread acceptance if yall don't start accepting yourselves, and each other. It is time to recognize that there are so many levels of dressing from a man in a dress to someone waiting to transition, quit assuming that every person that enters this forum must want to be a gurl or want to act, talk and be treated like a woman, and most of all realize that when you post all encompassing statements on this forum, for the world to see, they see it. So if you want people to accept you or your fellow crossdressers, well, start within these chats. I have seen plenty of responses to my SO that want to pigeonhole him into a certain way, and 100% of the time it was so far from the reality I couldn't decide if I should laugh or be offended by the stereotypes yall impress upon yourselves so often

And yes, my rant did relieve some stress. Thank you. But most of all if it helps even one GG to see that not every CDer is the same and not all want to transition or one young dressed that there is some normal and he isn't alone when he reads in posts that all CDers want this or that, and he doesn't, than I am so glad I ranted.

Also, I understand the not forcing others to disclose, BUT especially for those who are married or have children with their SO, is it fair at all to passively force the SO to live a life she has not even had the option to live?

I am well aware that the urge will never go away, however new dressers and SOs also need to know that it does not always escalate to full time or transitioning. That is the major fear of a large majority of SOs. Yes, balance! Like cutting back on sweets, you cannot deny yourself the small cravings or you will eventually eat the whole damned cake. I get it.

I 'preach' balance to my husband all the time, dress regularly so that it no longer controls you, you control it.

[Jari]

Respect Sierra, really, respect.

I like this forum and the site, but there are many different types of crossdressers and many stratergies for coping with it, and I think sometimes people here forget that. I came out to my SO very early in our relationship cos I loved her and I didnt think it was fair not to tell her, and she has been wonderful. Something so fundamental to our lives cannot be under rug swept. I find it strange that so many seem not to tell their wives/partners - if she cannot accept you or hates that you crossdress she aint the one for you. Its brutal but its true - theres a great big world out there and there are those with strength enough to accept. Dont accept a life less lived.

Love

Jari

[Jill Devine]

Overall I would say that I agree with the sentiment of the original post.

[carhill2mn]

Sierra,

IMHO, you have just used this forum in the same manner as many others have, of whom you were critical; ie., to rant. Fortunately, (or unfortunately) there are many diverse people on this form with many different opinions and in many cases they are just that opinions, not facts. There are no "one size fits all" answers.

People have many different experiences which have influenced how they feel about things. Thus, their responses, advice, rants, etc. will be different from others. People on the forum are free to choose what best applies to their situations and act accordingly. Many members of this forum have expressed how this forum has given them a much better understanding and safer feeling than other forums to which they have belonged. Again, different perspectives based upon different experiences.

[Kandi Robbins]

Well said and well thought out. Thanks for sharing.

[Amy Fakley]

Also, I understand the not forcing others to disclose, BUT especially for those who are married or have children with their SO, is it fair at all to passively force the SO to live a life she has not even had the option to live?

I want you to think of the most shameful, dispicible thing you have ever done. Something that literally everyone you know in the world would condemn you for, unless you got extraordinarily lucky. Now I want you to imagine looking into your child's eyes, and explaining that to them, then having a discussion with them about how the life they've known up to now, is over because of that.

If you get lucky, it might not go that way. But the odds really and truly aren't in your favor. But the potential payoff is that you get to feel better about not being dishonest

On the other hand, you could just keep your mouth shut and hope for the best.

Every. Single. Day. Of. Your. Life. That hole gets deeper, and the potential consequences become more and more drastic.

Tell me again, how it pays to be always truthful, and how ridiculous we all are to carry on in secret, and how the choice is just so obvious and simple .

It isn't fair. All the way around it isn't. For us, to have been born this way, in a culture that simply will not tolerate it. That's not fair. And it's not fair to our wives. And it's not fair to our children and loved ones.

we live in a world that is not fair, and life is a series of choices that are often between the lesser of two evils.

I have respect for those of us here who have stayed closeted, because I lived that nightmare for 17 long years. Eventually I came out, and it didn't go badly. In fact most of my fears turned out to be unfounded. But you know what, it could have gone bad. Really really bad. And that choice has essentially destroyed lives of many on this forum.

I get your frustration, but guilt trip threads like this one are as much of a problem as the ridiculous over generalizing threads you're calling out.

The decision to reveal should not be taken lightly. There are costs either way, and everyone's situation is different.

[MichelleDevon]

Sierra, you are absolutely right that we need to tell our SOs...they may then choose to be involved or not. However there is a but... Those of us who are older than about 35 have probably all come to cross-dressing at a time when you really really didn't talk about such things - many of us are old enough to remember when homosexual activity was a crime... I suspect most of us thought for many years "It's just me, there's something wrong with me..." and there was absolutely no way we were going to tell anyone at all.

Then there was the all-powerful internet...suddenly it became obvious that it was not just me, I may be different from some societal norm but, hey wonderful news, IT ISN'T JUST ME. For me that was a real eureka moment and I decided fairly quickly that I wanted to tell me wife about it. I waited months for an opportunity - it was never going to be easy after 26 years of marriage and it wasn't. Far from becoming involved she rejected it utterly. It was some 6 years later, after I had spent two years living away from her and had a brief affair with a lady who was interested in and excited by it, that we each had counselling and then couples counselling and she came to realise why I had been unable to tell her and although she isn't keen she does now give Michelle space in our life.

You are right too to criticise those who suggest that this is a one-way street leading to gender reassignment - it isn't. Within my support group there is a wide cross-section of CDs to TSs. Some of those CDs only ever come to the group - they are a bit more than closet cross-dressers - there are thousands around the world - they are scared to tell, scared of being ridiculed, frightened of losing their job or a host of other reasons. Some don't ever get out of their house. Some, like me, are happy to tell the world about it but I am going nowhere near GRS thank you. And there are the TSs or aspiring TSs who feel they are in the wrong body - that is an entirely different kettle of fish from me and a million miles from the closet CDs.

We've come to it in many different ways and many have tried unsuccessfully to purge. I am not sure the desire increases with age - I think it increases with growing confidence. But we have, as you rightly say, to temper our increasing confidence and desire to dress with the knowledge that not everyone in our daily lives is as comfortable with it as we are. I have one daughter who is cool with it - her 2 year old son recognises his Granny Michelle as Grandad; the other daughter is adamant that she doesn't wish to meet Michelle again and certainly doesn't want her two daughters to meet their Granny Michelle. That makes me sad and sometimes angry but it is her choice and who am I to force my somewhat off-beat activity on her or my two granddaughters? Similarly I don't go to work as Michelle although several work colleagues know about M and one regularly comes to support group meetings with me.

I like to be accepted and I choose to be as open as I can be; I don't foist Michelle on people who I think would find it too hard to accept. Like Sierra I also have a plan (with that aforementioned work colleague) to set up some sort of drop-in centre for our CD/TV/TS community and I would extend a cordial welcome to anyone - MtF, FtM, SOs - and encourage them to be as open as possible. I am committed to educating society as much as I can...get rid of the ignorance with begets bigotry, then we can all be ourselves in safety.

Onwards and upwards, sisters...but we are NOT fundamentalists about this. We have a right to be ourselves but we don't have a right for society to like it or to agree with us. We cannot force people to like us or agree with us - we have to learn to give and take just like any other minority group...

I wouldn't want ever to be "norma" now - I am very comfortable with who I am.

Hugs and kisses

Michelle
xxxx

[Sierra_juliette]

First of all, I have done exactly that, with something much more despicable than any aspect of cross dressing could be, and sat and looked into the eyes of my children and told them exactly what I did. So yeah, I get it. However, there is absolutely no way I would have let them live their lives and find out only by accident or by my death what I had done. If it meant losing them, I had to embrace that outcome. I would bet that there isn't a single person on this forum that would appreciate finding out such life altering news without the ability to ask questions or look their SO in the eye and see that despite the news, there is and always has been love in their eyes. Why would you choose to share a life with a person and never truly share your life?

Second, okay, if this is viewed as a guilt trip post so be it. However, I will say again, even if one chooses to live closeted, is it not universally destructive and close-minded of the members to stereotype each other, to tell new member or SOs that t always escalates, it is the dream of all to be able to live full time as a woman or any other nonsense?!?!

This forum is meant to provide support yet I have personally seen the opposite happen from this forum.

[AnnieMac]

Ok, I give Sierra, did I miss something, what did you do?

[Sierra_juliette]

You didn't miss anything however I have a very interesting past and lived on the streets addicted to drugs and bouncing around crack houses for most of my teen years and was unfortunately heavily addicted to meth for many years. The despicable part of that is looking into my child's eyes and admitting to her that even knowing she was growing inside me, I never stopped. So yeah, I get coming clean being a hard thing to do...but that past is part of who I am, part of what makes me, me. So I won't hide it from my loved ones.

[S. Lisa Smith]

Well, I find this very interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about all of this... I told my wife after about 18 years of marriage. She had no idea.... We have gone from a DADT relationship concerning my CDing to one of more openness and even joking. She has allowed me to go to Fantasia Fair and has okayed Keystone. She has purchased items of clothing for me when I have asked. Don't misunderstand, she doesn't want to see Lisa. I am fortunate to have a wife who has been accepting. Not everyone is so lucky, yet they receive and give other benefits in the marriage that overcomes the CD factor. I agree with Amy, it's not easy, simple or convenient to come out. It may not even be worth it to either partner or the children to do so. Each case stands on it's own merits, each person must make that decision. One size does not fit all. I wish there were a simple answer, but there probably isn't one...

[Natasha V]

Great post.

[Erica Marie]

Coming from a single person, without an SO to hurt. I dont know what to say. I have kept it hidden for a long time. I do have two wonderful children and honestly I dont know how or if there ever will be the right time or place to tell them. I would give anything to have an accepting SO, I dont because I cant find it in me to take a chance and hurt someone. So I find it easier to just hurt myself by not being who I truly am.

[mykell]

um hi sierra,
last week i was helping you start a business, soo im confused......is this a marketing technique that im unaware of......

we are not a one size fits all community....never will be.....to each they're own....what works for one will not guarantee success for another.....

some posts here are totally ridiculous, some over dramatic, some lost their moral values, some are awesome, and on and on, we have to filter them with our own rational understanding.... choose to reply or not based on weather or not we have something helpful to contribute.
those who ask for opinions or offer statements may choose to use the information and/or opinions offered back in the way that helps with an answer or solution they need help with, a choice.....
so its a series of choices, choose to ask, choose to accept, choose to reply, choose to believe, choose to help, choose to watch, choose to do nothing.....

i read you post twice and im not sure if im guilty of any of your points, iv been here just over a year......ive offered help, ive asked for help, ive been silly, ive been serious, ive shared some low points and some high points and some in between.......ive been pretty comfortable here......ive seen some fairly creepy sites out there that i wouldn't join, recommend or want my family to see.....its a personal choice.....
i respect your perspective.....thanks for sharing it with us...

just a side note... wish that you had not lived with issues you did in the relationship you shared with us, and i wish you well in the future....

[AngelaYVR]

I like how we are supposed to act as one unit, rather than the individuals that we are.

[Maria 60]

Well your not just fiddling to crossdressers. How many wife's don't know there husbands cheat or gamblers and addicted to drugs. Unfortunately that's life. You know what they say, the wife's always the last to know. I hear you and agree but it part of life.

[Sierra_juliette]

This is far from a marketing idea, nor am I trying to line everyone up in a row and call it all the same type of crossdresser. What I am saying is that it is frustrating as all heck to read so many people in this forum complain that their wife restricts them, has certain feelings about his dressing, is understanding etc, yet I have not seen one person 'stand up' and say 'she may be restricting me, requiring DADT, but she stays by my side'. I hear/read a whole lot of why cant the world accept us as we are, yet you (figuratively) do not accept your SO for how she is, accept that she doesn't want to see it, or has boundaries.

But alas, I see that no matter how I explain it, I am preaching/ranting to an audience that doesn't want an opinion from an 'outsider'. So I leave you with this, the world will never accept you until you accept you, period. Homosexuality didn't become 'mainstream accepted' because society woke up one day and said 'hey we were wrong, these people are okay and deserve to be happy' it changed because people stepped out of the closet and said I am proud of who I am as a person and who I choose to love has no bearing on that. It won't be until CDers step out of the shadow and out of the closet and say we are people, good people and how we dress will not change the good person that you have known.

[AngelaYVR]

Poppycock. What you read here are the complaints, because people are more likely to complain than relay good news. It has nothing to do with you being an "outsider", much of what you said is true. But painting us all with the same brush is bound to rankle, that's what my issue is. I know where I stand with my wife and I appreciate what I have and I am willing to wager many, many others here do as well. The trouble is I don't start a thread titled "My wife is tolerant and lets me dress!" so you only see the negative. Everyone else sees it too of course, but we are not machines. We could just as easily pick any negative aspect of a few women and apply it to all of you. Silly, yes?

And really, when you talk about trust, shouldn't any SO reading this forum trust her husband enough to listen to his story and not simply believe what she reads? Two way street and all.

[Dianne S]

It won't be until CDers step out of the shadow and out of the closet and say we are people, good people and how we dress will not change the good person that you have known.

Yes, I agree! But it's not always that easy. Someone who comes out to the world and loses his family, loses his job, is ridiculed or even has death threats will take cold comfort in knowing he may have advanced the cause of transgender people.

I happen to be extremely lucky in that my kids are supportive, my sisters and mother are supportive, and all my friends who know are supportive. I also have secure employment because I own my own business, so I will be coming out to the world when I transition and I will obviously be activist in support of trans people. But not everyone's that lucky.

[AnnieMac]

Sierra's right about that in her last post! It's like the old saying, "if you want to be a writer, well then write" So if we all want to be accepted mainstream, than we have to be mainstream, and that means being totally open and in the public so it becomes more natural to people. Hey look, I'm not one to talk here, I'm still in the closet and dress at home. But look and appreciated what our gay and lesbian friends here have accomplished, after years of "Bille Jean King Jokes" and "Limp Wristed Homo" imitations. No one really gives a hoot about who is gay or not anymore in mainstream society (well, except for that Supreme court Gay marriage ruling, that still has to happen yet). The world has far bigger problems that gays and sissies. No one said it will be easy either, ask any gay person, that took a long time, with a lot of terrible sacrifice, CD acceptance will be no different. Do I have the energy for it? Probably not, getting to old for drama.
Also people will express themselves rather strongly on a forum, because well, it IS a forum. That is what it is for. Anyone has far to thin of a skin if they get offended by something they read online. It's just ideas being expressed, and that is a good thing!

[Hell on Heels]

Sierra, I'm sorry to hear you were stuck in that abusive relationship for such a long time.
Nobody should have to be near death before finding their way out of something like that.
Comparing my not telling to your broken bones though is apples and oranges to me.
I am in the age group of the before internet. And before it did arrive I had met my SO.
And at that point in my life I had little to no interest in CDing.
Sure it came and went in brief periods, but there were stretches of time were there was none at all.
Up until a year and a half ago it had been 20 years. A lot of life had been shared with my SO during those years.
Now that CDing has come back, with a vengeance, I had still not looked it up on the internet. I knew there were others like me, I had no idea how many. But I was still figuring things out for myself, how could I include my So?
I agree that sharing something like this with a spouse is for the best, but explaining something you don't understand is impossible.
I do realize there are so many different types, or levels of CDing , and I do not consciously promote a "one path for all" point of view. What I would suggest to everyone is more of a "at your own pace" point of view.
And lastly, acceptance begins with ourselves, not the group of us. Some of the members here have not found that comfort with themselves yet, and it is a struggle we all face at some point.
If acceptance by society is the goal, we need to accept ourselves first.
Making someone feel guilty for not being comfortable with themselves will only
drive them further away from that comfortable place of accepting themselves.
Not every reveal has a happy ending, there is a risk. More often you will hear the
glorious happy outcome here than the failure. No one hangs hard times on the wall.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Marcelle]

Hi Sierra,

I understand your angst and hear your pain from your own past experience. I am one who is out to my wife, family, friends and work but that was my choice as it fit my need to express and explore who I am . I will never transition as I like the guy part of me as much as I like the girl part of me, but then again that is me. I am a bit confused as I have watered here for over a year and while there may be one or two who will latch on to a new arrival and say "hey you are on a one way trip to transition", most of the feedback is related more to accepting this side of you, growing, and if you are in a relationship, cultivate and grow. I have seen some advice given in which the person has indicated they are tired of the DADT relationship and most feedback is either "live with it", "discuss it" or "pack it in if you cannot agree to disagree". As you stated, remaining in a relationship in which you are not happy does neither party any good.

Regarding telling your wife, SO, partner, GF or whomever, it is a personal choice and every situation is different and to assume that telling your SO will solve all the problems associated with being TG well . . . there are many stories here about relationships that have ended on the rocks because of disclosure. In a way I agree with you, if it is meant to be it will be and if the SO cannot get past the dressing or the CDer wants more than the SO is willing to give, then perhaps both parties are better off traveling separate paths. I would have you consider this though, if the CDer does their business in private, hurts nobody, achieves whatever balance they require, puts it away and continues to be a loving, supportive, caring and wonderful partner . . . does the dressing matter and what is gained in telling the SO? Yes, you could argue it is the SOs right to know so they can make an informed decision but if the act is done in private with no difference to the relationship what is the harm. On the other hand if the dressing is becoming so pervasive in a CDers life that they are spiralling into anger, resentment, neglect, depression and an all around moody D-Bag then yes the talk is required. We all carry secrets and some of us will take many to the grave. I have several combat tours and have done things in the service of my country which I will never disclose to my wife. Not that I don't think she will understand, I just don't know how she would see me afterwards . . . that does not make me deceitful, a liar or bad just guarded as the severity of these things are beyond comprehension for most.

It is never as simple as some here who have told their SOs and like reformed alcoholics continually extol the virtue of doing the right thing and attempting to shame others into following their path. It may have worked out well for them but that is them and they are not walking in another person's shoes. Heck I could take the moral high ground and start saying that by not coming out to your family you are living a lie and should they find out down the road they will be hurt and while we are at it, why not extrapolate that to your friends and workplace . . . it worked out for me so it should for everyone. However I won't do that because my circumstances are different from others and each has to fine his/her own road. The path is rough and becomes even more tangled when others are involved but in then end each must find their way at their own speed or more damage could be inadvertently done.

Isha

[MissTee]

I 'preach' balance to my husband all the time, dress regularly so that it no longer controls you, you control it.

Can I hug you now or do you want a rain check? Seriously, regular dressing let's me do exactly that. Control it. If I am forced to refrain for long periods, I just don't have the where with all to fight the pink fog.

[bridget thronton]

Thank you for your post Sierra and congrats on leaving drugs behind

[Erika Lyne]

Sierra Juliet,

Thanks for the rant (& owning up to this being a rant), it really does mean a lot to us to hear from a GG/SO. You used quite a bit of a harsh tone and rightfully so, may I add. I will say that I am fairly new to the site. I am however, NOT new to being stuck in a position of being mismatched. Though I've never gone for clinical diagnosis, I do know that I fall a bit further down the spectrum compared to many here. I have to say that my CDing has been getting stronger as I get older, maybe it is caused by a drop in testosterone, more confidence, lack of tolerance to societal pressures or I am just growing into someone else. No matter what, it is not going away and is getting more enveloping.

Sierra, just as you are more of a professional in being a woman, I (& may I dare say "we") am (are) more of the professional(s) at being me (us). With that, I have been putting a big part of my life deep into hiding for decades, either for shorter periods of time or for years at a whack. I have done this many times for my wife's convenience as well as societal acceptance. Never have I expected my wife to bury a large part of her for my comfort. She has always been free to live her life around me as she is comfortable. This, perhaps, is my biggest gripe towards your rant. I've been looking for a way to bring it up in this forum without sounding like I was preaching to the choir or looking to start a Pitty Party. I propose this for a debate: where do you (non-specific) gain the right to tell anyone, spouse and SO included, who they are allowed to be? Each spouse or SO in a committed relationship has a responsibility to foster the other party, CDer and GG alike. By limiting a DADT or Not-In-My-Sight or similar restrictive policy at home you've just become the abusive party. (I get it that people have limits, mine are quite low but I do have some.) A mutual understand and self imposed limits would be best but this too hardly ever successful because it is not set in concrete. As has been stated earlier in this thread, this thing grows with age or confidence and it will require a movement of that "Tolerance Line," if I may assign a name to it. I have been reading on this forum that it is rare for the spouse/SO to revise their stance in the same direction. Often, it seems, that the spouse/SO tends to go in the opposite direction as their CDing mate.

I know that I am not completely satisfied with my wife's and my own lack of complete acceptance of my entire persona (I know I wish I could be more like Isha.). I am guilty of venting/ranting that I want more of the chance to be who I feel I am. That just may be psychology, to use an older psych model: Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. We have all met the basics and progressed up to Acceptance of our Peers. Our SOs should be our peers in day to day life, other members here peers in our own likeness. Our fellow members (for the most part) accept us for who we are but our SOs may not accept us to the extent we wish, if at all. This calls on us to reassure our own psychological stability within a safe place of our peers, fellow members. This reassurance may be posted in a thread as a rant, gripe or just a plain old bitch session. Our peers then share advice on how they have succeeded in being able to move that "Tolerance Line." Usually, it seems that slow movements allow time for our spouses/SOs to grow accustomed to how we wish to present ourselves.

If you haven't seen any of my other posts: I too am married, married to a person who has stuck by me though several unsuccessful attempts to "cure" myself of this conflict within by purging several times, a few times for my spouse's happiness. Foremost, I agree with you about disclosure, early disclosure being the most favorable. Agree too that being truthful to family is preferred. As I have stated in other posts, I told my (now) wife of 14 years quite early on in our courtship that I CD, I was 15 years old at the time. I was also honest with her saying that I am not sure where it'll lead, so far just dressing. Our two pre-teen children know and are accepting of me dressed. My wife has joined this site and we are trying to be contributing members of this microsociety. She has read many of the posts that say this WILL lead to a long and painful life until transition is made and it put a huge fear in her. Some LONG conversations have come from these generalities posted. As far as coming out to extended family, I have not been as successful. My family is quite conservative in this realm, NIMBY is how they view it. Add to that, my career choice is a narrow minded one where ridicule and exclusion of different behaviors is common place. I'd like to say that I would expect it to change soon but I fear it will not.

Again, Sierra Tango, I think it is safe to say that most of us here appreciate the views of an SO/GG. Thanks for the rant and I look forward to your insightful replies.

Hugs,
-E

[pamela7]

I am not saying drop everything and tell her now, but tell her! She deserves to know and YOU deserve to be accepted.

I told my wife every step of the way, from when we met. I liken the situation to living the lie by staying with my first wife when it was over, "just for the children". That was wrong to do, and time has proven right that the children are better for being raised in a loving separated family, and seeing real love in action between me and my now-forever wife.

Of course she loves me, of course I love her, and even so its a journey, made TOGETHER, and its working. But then we agreed on day one 13 years ago that we'd never have secrets, never leave issues to rot, never leave anything un-discussed, and always processed out issues to come back to peace and love. This has worked, and its working now through my CD flowering.

Living the lie is unhealthy, for all. And yet, to inflict upon others ones own beliefs is also i feel inappropriate (bit like religion). We like to be nude in the house, but dress when the kids are about. I don't feel CD-ing in the house is anywhere near as uncomfortable or inflicting on others. Stereotypical people NEED to be awakened to wider realities if society is to progress, but gently, step-by-step is the way - no sudden shocks nor traumas.

By example

1. darling, would you mind if we tried making love with me in ladies underwear, just something i'd like to try
2. darling, they feel so much better, how about I wear them sometimes under my normal clothes.
3. darling, i love your fabrics, might i wear a vest sometimes?
4. how about role-playing our genders to better understand eachother ...

and so on, spread over time ... its how governments influence us, and it works ...

xxx Pamela

[cdncdwife]

I understand that this group is a mixed and diverse bunch of people not limited to CD and wives. We live in different countries, are rich and poor, loving, kind, some are jerks, some are mechanics and others teachers. Having a cookie cutter answer just isn't possible as we all experience things differently. So all I can do is answer for myself.

Hi. I'm the wife of a CD who started dressing a few months ago and told me within the first couple of weeks. We had a previously good relationship and pretty good communication. Mutual love and respect. But when he told me it still rocked my world (and not in a good way) for several days as I came to terms with everything. The emotional roller coaster is a painful experience for any wife and it was only through reading some positive things on another much smaller CD forum and from having the love from my husband who strove hard to make me feel secure and who answered all my questions, that we made it through. I agree that being able to answer questions was the most important part to me, and initially the most urgent. Having gone through the fire though I can now say that we are happier than ever and the experience has brought us closer together. We're both new to this however and so the journey is beginning. But we're committed to doing it together and so we'll see where it goes. I wish everyone could have this same relationship growing and bonding experience, but I know that's not the case. Look at past disasters in your relationship. If they served to bring you together then that's good, but if not, I think that's likely to happen again. So do all you can to make her secure and safe in your relationship before and after you tell. And maybe see if you can direct her to another wife of a CD who's friendly and can be reassuring and help answer questions or give her some questions to ask you. I think that might be helpful to some. I consider it a sign of love and respect that my husband risked losing me to tell me and to keep honesty in our marriage.

[Sierra_juliette]

Okay, that made me laugh completely out loud, I LOVE that you said 'some are jerks, some are mechanics...' I am now imagining a business card for random Joe Smith - licensed jerk

[Mollyanne]

I'm going to throw my 2cents worth into the fray. I have read all the responses and have an idea of what everybody is trying to say or defend. We are all different, with different needs, with different fears and expectations as to who we are and what we want to accomplish. Coming "clean" to a SO, wife or girlfriend can be a good thing IE: NOT KEEPING A SECRET but sometimes its far better to "keep the genie in the bottle". Actually I tried both methods ( keeping the secret and telling) neither worked out well so now I "fly under the radar". Circumstances will dictate what and how thing(s) are said and to whom. To some of us this is a private hell and to some of us this is a heaven of sorts. We all need to be heard, understood would be the epitome of the problem.

Molly

[Sarasometimes]

Sierra,
I hope your rant has helped you i know they sometimes work for me. I agree with some of what you wrote and disagree with other points. The request for respondents to stop painting all CD's as on their way to womanhood is noble. We all view the world from our perspective. You have had some really tough challenges in your life that I can't begin to understand and consequently I wont question how you handled them.
Just like "he is dressing now but he will transition and you will be married to a trans woman." post doesn't fit all. Neither does your "You MUST tell her so she can ask questions and decide whether to stay with you or not." apply to all!
You don't know my situation anywhere close enough to preach to me or others here, than we have to tell you how you should have handled those extremely difficult situations in your past. In a pure sense your argument has merit but we don't live in a pure sense! You should know as well as any here that we often times need to make choices that are less than ideal with out all the understanding we would like. Some of those choices may turn out to have been wrong ones with real consequences as you know all too well.
I'm in a DADT and have kids who don't know either. I'm in therapy to help me deal with balancing my life of extremes with the needs of my family. I spend countless hours reassessing how I'm living my life and what is best for all involved. Respectfully I know without any doubt that you can't possibly have my solution figured out.
I read another post in this thread about a wife whose husband "started dressing a few months ago and told her within a few weeks." I read her other posts and find that he decided when he was in his 60's to start dressing. he figured out really quickly that he was a crossdresser all his life without ever doing it and told he right away. That was very insightful of him and it is great that it is working for him but that also isn't for everyone.
As someone else mentioned forums are just that and open opportunity to generally say what you please. We also have trolls that come and go but if you let the few run you off than that is unfortunate.
Honestly Sierra I wish you only the best and I'm glad that you feel better knowing about your SO's crossdressing and that you continue to have a thriving, loving relationship. I welcome your thoughts.

Mollyanne you had some great points, too.

[SaraSmile]

I never even thought of myself as a “crossdresser” until I found this website a couple of weeks ago. I thought of myself as a pervert with a serious mental and emotional problem, which I wanted to keep hidden from the world. I thought it meant that I was a homosexual (which must be followed by the obligatory “not that there is anything wrong with that”), but there is definitely something very “wrong with that” when you are a happily-married, monogamous/faithful, heterosexual father of three.

Up until November of last year, my crossdressing was limited to specific circumstances, normally when left alone for an extended period (family out of town). Whenever I “cave” to these urges, it was followed by guilt, shame, self-loathing, etc. Strange but true, I have often used that anger to knock out home construction projects while my family was gone, so at least my wife comes home to something done, which made her happy.

Something changed last November when, for the first time, I felt these urges to “underdress” and wear women’s clothing, even though my family was around. I do not understand why, and fought them mentally, but it seemed to make everything worse, even overwhelming and all-consuming at times. I could not stop thinking about it. I wore my wife’s pink panties under my clothing, as I cooked Thanksgiving dinner for a houseful of friends and family. I thought I was nuts, and I had no one to talk to about this. I was getting worn to threads, fighting with this voice inside my head, telling me to wear women’s clothing. To make matters worse, my wife knew something was bothering me (she always does) and I just could not talk to her because, at least in my own mind, this problem is WAY too far outside the box. I am suppose to be her husband, the Rock of Gibraltar, the bedrock foundation for my family, not some deviant “sissy boy” wearing women’s clothing. And when one hits the internet in search of answers, one generally finds not thoughtful discussion like this, but porn websites and a host of other predators, presenting that image.

So back to your original post ... I could not disagree more. I found some much needed support and information on this website. I found a path to self-acceptance, meaning that I do not have to hate myself because having these issues. I discovered that, in fact, there are happily-married, heterosexual men, just like me, who have found accepted CD ... some of whom have also embraced CD, inside or outside of their home. And while there are some swimming in the deep end, who think one must fully embrace CD or who complain about the unwillingness of their spouse to accept CD, there are others here, like me, happy to just swim in shallow waters.

So to the wives of crossdressers, who come here looking for answers, I would say this ... Your husband is unique, just like everyone else. My guess is that the answers to your real questions are probably inside his head, this website has a lot of good people, who can share their own experiences and, in doing so, maybe help you understand and/or accept your own personal situation. Good luck.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

(1)...on a daily basis I come to this forum and am appalled, offended and frankly a little worried about some of the things I read. ...All too often the responses are so quick to diagnose the CDer as on a one way train to transitioning, that it is an ever growing monster from which no one can escape.

(2) I read posts complaining about limits, begging for acceptance, talking about how you cannot ever escape dressing and it will always spiral... ... you are either completely intolerant of the feelings of your SO that is staying by your side but insisting on DADT, limits or boundaries, SERIOUSLY? I see the vast majority talk about how dressing makes you FEEL, yet you selfishly want to invalidate the feelings of an SO, child, friend, parent or other family?!?

(3) If you truly love your SO and respect her, give her the option to accept you, do not force her to live a lie, it is selfish and just wrong. If you think she wouldn't accept you or it would end the relationship, well, newsflash, it shouldn't be. What I mean is, if she doesn't love and respect you enough to accept you, why are you there?!?!

(4) So, I say, how dare you deny this woman who you claim to love, respect and want to protect, the chance to actually know you, to be able to make a decision for herself and live a truly honest and fulfilled life. Give her the chance to make an informed decision on how she gets to live her life.

Hi SJ. I've numbered your main points to make responding easier.

I too visit the site daily and look at a great many threads, especially the Introductions, and the ones which contain emotion, feelings, or cries for help.

(1) I'm puzzled. I don't see many posts which "diagnose the CDer as on a one way train to transitioning, that it is an ever growing monster...". When I have seen one saying something of that sort, it's normally been because the OP has spoken in such extreme terms that we, and they, have been left in little doubt.

What I do see regularly is posts such as Dianne S's above, saying "For the vast majority of crossdressers, the urge never goes away and usually gets stronger ...the more you try to suppress it, the more preoccupied the CDer will become."

My reading here confirms that opinion, and nowhere does Dianne imply that transitioning is the logical conclusion. It's also an obvious fact that suppressing any deep-seated desire is only likely to compound it.

(2) Yes, many here wish more than anything for acceptance, and for many the compulsion to cd is overwhelming. It's a support site- of course we're going to vent and grumble and express our wishes. Without this (marvelous) outlet, some here would have absolutely no outlet, no way of expressing their inner demons. Being able to come here and let off steam does not mean we present that attitude to our wives and SOs, any more than playing Grand Theft Auto means we're going to get in our cars and go postal. "...I see the vast majority talk about how dressing makes you FEEL..." Well, to put it in your own terms, 'newsflash' what else is this site for?

Far from wanting "...to invalidate the feelings of an SO, child, friend, parent or other family..." I read a huge number of threads here full of nothing but the deepest concern for our SOs and families. Many of us wrestle every day with feelings of guilt and shame for exactly that reason, terrified that 'fessing up will cause either awful pain, or outright rejection, or both. We fear alienating those we love, and destroying relationships and marriages, because although you are accepting and tolerant of your SO, many, many people still see crossdressing as a mental disease, as something appalling, and perverted.

The problem is simple- once you have The Talk, you can never un-say it. Of course many of us are terrified- it might cost us our marriages, our families, maybe our jobs- we fear rejection, and we fear losing all we've built, all we love. I'm sad that you jump to the conclusion that this implies we are somehow invalidating our SOs-to me it implies nothing of the sort.

(3) Many of us have striven for decades to walk away from the compulsion, and to 'man up'. Isha's many heartfelt threads are a good example. Many have come to crossdressing late in life, decades after marriage, and been hit by this lightning bolt that we did not ask for or expect. Some have no doubt gone into marriage because it was expected of them by family and society, desperate to conform, to be accepted, to be 'normal', having resolved to leave early crossdressing experiments behind, only to find years later that the repression is strangling us. You know better than most that getting out of an imperfect marriage is easier said than done, especially when kids are part of the equation. You're right- of course we 'should' be able to tell our spouses everything, to have no secrets, but the sad fact is that many of us do not feel confident that our spouses or SOs have what it takes to be able to handle it. That judgment appears to anger you, and it's true that not giving them the benefit of the doubt is a judgment- but years or decades into a relationship, we might feel we have a pretty shrewd idea of the reaction we can expect. Frowns of disapproval or ridicule at a character in a movie, reactions to an obviously effeminate man in public, etc, there are clues which inform us of how another person feels and thinks.

You claim in effect that 'if they can't handle it, why remain together'. That's pretty judgmental, isn't it? With entire lives and families, as well as deep financial entanglements at stake, dropping that bombshell is certainly cause for worry.

(4) "...how dare you deny this woman who you claim to love, respect and want to protect..." Wow- get off your feminist high horse! Yes, some of us are egocentric, narcissistic, self-centred, but isn't that true of plenty of straight people, both male and female? We make plenty of noise here because it's safe, but outside in the real world we face being laughed at, spat at, possibly attacked, discriminated against, ridiculed, rejected by those we call friends, by family, our fellow workers; we live in a twilight world of weirdness and wonder, halfway between two worlds, and frankly it often sucks. The internet is an imperfect beast- SOs and newbies who stumble on to this site will find all sorts of people here, and all sorts of advice. It's up to them to make of it what they will- for me it's been an absolute lifeline, and some of the most absorbing reading has been from the small number of gg SOs, yourself included.

The sad truth is that many of us will never move beyond DADT because our SOs just can't handle it. And perhaps in some cases neither can we.

And so we go on.

[Sierra_juliette]

Okay, although I respect your opinions, I am by no means on a feminist high horse and frankly saying such just reaffirms my original irritation. How is it that a thousand crossdressers can post things about hiding and lying to SO's and get support yet when I post from an SO's viewpoint, and a major supporter of the open minded world of cross dressing, post suggesting or flat out saying yall are doing more harm than good I am the bad guy?

And as far as my comment goes, YES! How dare anyone, treat their life partner with such lack of caring and respect. Yes I mean exactly what I say. What it seems no one has addressed from my post is what the SO is going to go through if you pass away and she finds this hidden life? Not one critic of my post has even hinted at this! This, this is my point! On top of the grief of losing you, she is now losing you again, with no ability to ask you questions to get answers. Because guess what, I guarantee no matter what without being able to ask those things she will forever doubt the life you shared, wonder if you were actually cheating, if you ever loved her, and a million other things she will never get answers to.

This is my biggest problem with hiding it

[Stephanie Julianna]

That's as straight forward as i have heard here from a GG. Thanks. We really do need a reality check at times.

[mykell]

This is far from a marketing idea, nor am I trying to line everyone up in a row and call it all the same type of crossdresser. What I am saying is that it is frustrating as all heck to read so many people in this forum complain that their wife restricts them, has certain feelings about his dressing, is understanding etc, yet I have not seen one person 'stand up' and say 'she may be restricting me, requiring DADT, but she stays by my side'. I hear/read a whole lot of why cant the world accept us as we are, yet you (figuratively) do not accept your SO for how she is, accept that she doesn't want to see it, or has boundaries.

But alas, I see that no matter how I explain it, I am preaching/ranting to an audience that doesn't want an opinion from an 'outsider'. So I leave you with this, the world will never accept you until you accept you, period. Homosexuality didn't become 'mainstream accepted' because society woke up one day and said 'hey we were wrong, these people are okay and deserve to be happy' it changed because people stepped out of the closet and said I am proud of who I am as a person and who I choose to love has no bearing on that. It won't be until CDers step out of the shadow and out of the closet and say we are people, good people and how we dress will not change the good person that you have known.

i cant speak for all here, but i have done nothing but thank my wife for staying with me and choose to live within the fact that she does not want to see it or participate.
its a learning curve and has been revisited but im at a belief that she must be involved if conditions are changed....

as far as walking out of the shadows (song in my signature) i just checked and we are just shy of 26,000 members with 5,000 active members, if we all decided to step out all at once at the same time i doubt that anyone would notice, no news choppers, camera's following, just another day....

im far from the poster person for transgender awareness but i try my best to represent and feel that our collective "baby steps" will invoke the change in acceptance that i feel we all strive for.....i hope you feel the love....lots of support for your thoughts....


1-24-15 post #6 http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?223944-Open-CD-Response-Only

this was a resent one, i have others and im sure other members do too....

[Kate Simmons]

The only thing I'm going to say is I agree with most of what Sierra posted and I'm a CDer. :)

[Nikkilovesdresses]

SJ- You seem a bit defensive- nobody remotely thinks you're the bad guy for saying what you think, plenty even agree with you. Surely you know that your contributions as a gg SO are highly valued- I've told you that myself and so have plenty of others.

But if I disagree with you I'm going to tell you, and that has nothing to do with your sex, it's just an honest response to a particular thread. I felt your accusative statement "...how dare you..." was inflammatory in the sense of implying a criticism of us as men for failing to behave as you think we should. Labelling it as feminist was foolish, now you probably think I'm out to get you- I'm not- I think you're great. But I do think you've got a lot of emotion invested in what you say and that you are making sweeping generalisations.

The death thing- I've already answered you in effect- if there are among us some who are too terrified of the potential repercussions of outing ourselves to do so, then it's sad, but it's just the way it is. One could say it's the SO's tough luck, it's life- sometimes you just don't get to have it all work out perfectly. People drown, planes crash, kids die at 6 days, a man spends 40 years on death row for a crime he didn't commit- sh*t happens.

The not-telling is often the expression of a very plausible fear of destroying lives, starting with our own, and rippling outwards to SO, kids, family, friends, job, perhaps church circle- it's endless. You can't just say "I don't care, you should tell, it's a lie otherwise' - it's idealistic and IMO naive, and it's a total judgment. Just because you've found it in your heart to accept your SO, doesn't mean to say every SO will, and although I'm out to mine, I do not begin to judge someone who hasn't been able to. We can love our SO but at the same time recognise their limitations.

[Stephanie47]

Sierra, I like posts such as your because they make me think. Your posts and others bring out the reality of cross dressing. I agree with many points you made. If you have read some of my postings I truly dislike those on this forum that truly force their wives to accept their cross dressing. I have said many times I liken it to mental spousal abuse. I'm in a Don't Ask, Don't Tell marriage. My wife knows, but, after we had "the talk" and settled into our comfort zone, there has been no further discussion. So when I pass away she will find my attire. She will probably wonder what the heck was going on in my mind, but, it has been her choice to not want any further discussion after "the talk" decades ago. I don't consider it "sneaking around" because I am more than willing to have light discussions rather than always wondering if she will ever throw an anti-cross dressing tirade. After forty plus years of marriage, she knows who I am in every other way. She knows my inner feelings and how killing people has affected me Yet, something like cross dressing is not suitable material for a discussion. I sense it is manly to have killed people, yet, this "manly" man, who has done things society asked me to do and gives me approval for doing it, feels I am less of a man for occasionally wanting to wear a dress. I understand what's going on. So, during the week I do go to therapy for killing people, yet, discussion about cross dressing is kind of limited to the anonymous people on this forum.

How did I learn to fear being identified as a cross dresser. Well, back in the 1950's and 1960's to be a cross dresser was to be labeled a "faggot, queer, fruit" and other terms. You were subject to arrest, getting beat up, lose your job, be drummed out of the military (you know those guys who asked me to kill for them). I heard from my parents about gays. It was not pleasant. So, like killing people, you hide your feelings. Nobody wanted to hear about who you really are. At least not until now.

So, before the Internet, what did I ever hear or read. I heard my wife and her cousin talk in whispers about a couple several houses down the block who were getting a divorce because he was a cross dresser. Yuck! How could a woman stay with a cross dresser? Yikes! And, I read a news report about a fire in my neighborhood. I still remember the guys name. The cross dressing denials and treatment he received from whoever was so intense he set his house on fire, sat is his easy chair fully en femme, and shot at responding fire fighters who tried to put the fire out. the newspaper reported his charred body was found wearing strap on pumps. Yes, there was and still is real genuine fear of cross dressing.

I don't know what the answer to your post. The issue that has had contributed the most stress in my marriage, and, the most adverse consequences to my marriage concerns my wife's secrets. Her issues happened way before I met her. She blurted them out one day. I thought I could handle it. I can and do, but, she is still consumed by her issues. Yet, she lives in her closet with hers. I live in my closet with mine.

I wonder many times why did the woman down the street divorce her husband because he was a cross dresser. My wife? She told me a long time ago that she wished she had not told me of her pre marriage issues, because, she would have been able to walk away from our marriage. She stayed because I had accepted her for things that are a hell of a lot worse than cross dressing. I've always found that conversation interesting.

[Sierra_juliette]

Stephanie,
I understand the fear and the darkness of the stigma that comes with dressing, I just hope that some day life is easier for us all.

The first time my husband had the courage to go out in public it was with me by his side, hand in hand. Had anyone said anything negative or gave him cross looks, I honestly don't know what wrath would have come from my lips. I applaud you and others who live in a DADT relationship. I know that it cannot be easy however it puts it on the table and if in the end she has questions, she had the chance to ask- not just tough luck you'll never know.

[Claire Cook]

Hi Sierra (wasn't that a Bogart movie?),

Many thanks for your posts and sharing part of your story; we need to listen to and think about GG perspectives. I for one do want opinions from "outsiders" (surely you are not one!). Let me say first that I am so touched by your story; you are coming from places most of us can't possibly identify with. It's a wonder to me that you have survived as you have.

I have two points, both of which have been made before. The first is Isha's, and others. We are all different, with different reasons for CD'ing, and different levels of CD'ing / being TG. Factor into that the fact that GF's / wives / SO's are also different (with differing internal reactions to seeing their men in female clothes) and that no two relationships are exactly the same, and we come up with the obvious: there are no hard and fast rules about whether, how and how much to tell our GF's / wives / SO's. While I am a firm believer that we owe it to them to be honest and communicate with them (I told my wife many years ago.. yes, we've been together for 45+ years and no, I am not transitioning), I appreciate the fact that there are some women who simply cannot handle this. Therein lies the real bind.


The other point is one that is all too common in blogs and social media websites: it so easy to fire off a post or a response without having given it sufficient thought, or perhaps as an emotional reaction, and I think that some of diversity in responses we see in posts may come from this.

And I think the last sentence in your last post should be something we CD'ers / TG'ers should really take to heart.

Thanks and hugs,

Claire

[Tina_gm]

I agree in principle with what you are venting about. One thing I would say to both many CDers and many S/o's of CDers is that there is more drama and more difficulty made out of the situation than need be. There is also expectations that are wrongly placed of and to CDers and their S/O's.

While there is a vocal minority who will attempt to cast a vision to a new CDer who is just coming to grips about it all that it is a one way street that will lead eventually to transition, most do not say that, not even most TS people. And even for those who do say that, yes, initially it may cause some unneeded confusion or even fear of a new person in the beginning stages of their own acceptance. They will come to their own point of balance I believe, even if at 1st they may think they are gonna end up transitioning. When it comes to the moment of truth, they will likely not go all the way into SRS. They just won't want to give up a part of them that is masculine, and the male identity they do have. It doesn't go away anymore than the feminine part does.

Where I am most frustrated, is when I see posts which encourage trickery and deceit, or that we must ever push greater acceptance upon our partners. Also because they love us, they must love it. I love my wife to death, but there are things about her that I do not like, and never will. Vice Versa and not just the CD aspect of me. I believe there are some on here who are mistaking acceptance and liking something. They are accepting if they have full knowledge of it and still choose to stay. I know though that there are some S/O's who do get into unnecessary power trips and do feel that their CD partner must shed the CDing for them. Even if they do shed the dressing, the desire cannot be shed, and any S/O who has an expectation of the desire lessening or being cast out entirely will always be gravely dissapointed.

I do so agree about how much it is important to tell. I firmly believe that as difficult as the dressing aspect of us who dress is, the greatest difficulty faced is the broken trust and the hurt from not being told, not being trusted with our inner most selves. We who keep the secret may do so to protect and whatever, but what we are most protecting is ourselves. But we mostly end up causing far more grief by not telling. Years of painstaking cover up, lying, paranoia, close calls etc etc. Then, when we either do tell or get discovered, it causes a serious rift in the relationship we strived for so long not to cause a rift in, or lose. So it becomes a lose lose in the end. If we tell early on when there is no harm no foul, it is more likely that our perspective future partner will be ok with it, to experience it anyway. It is more likely they will find a comfort zone around us and our needs and desires. We literally cause are own lack of dressing in our own home due to not telling. I know, I am one who did this to myself.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

If we tell early on when there is no harm no foul, it is more likely that our perspective future partner will be ok with it...

But what about the many who come to this late in life, decades into a marriage? I've read enough examples here to know that not all had the urge when they were young, and a great many others honestly thought they could 'man up' and push the feelings away.

It's just not straight forward for many of us, not the black and white issue that SJ seems to believe it is.

[TinaZ]

Many here already have responded the way I would have, but I will contribute this: my freshman year in college at the University of Nebraska (where the N stands for knowledge) I was in a sociology course and we were discussing race. A girl from North Dakota remarked about loving our diverse college campus. To which most of responded, "Huh?" As you can imagine, NU is pretty white bread.

Turns out this girl had never in her life seen a Black person. So she was asked what percentage of the student population she believed was African American. She put it at 35 to 40 percent. In actuality, it was maybe 5. It was a classic case of "confirmation bias," which is something all of us do.

Your depiction of this site, I think, is similar. You might not believe me, but if you literally open five random threads and count the number of times someone responds the way you described, I guarantee the number will be far fewer than you imagine.

I had a good ol' freak out about 3 weeks ago, and asked this community for help. I don't recall one response telling me I was on the path to transition. I remember person after person after person consoling me and saying I needed to try to find balance between all aspects of life. If an SO stumbled into that thread I'd be more than proud of the level headed assurances she would read.

[~Joanne~]

All too often the responses are so quick to diagnose the CDer as on a one way train to transitioning, that it is an ever growing monster from which no one can escape. This would scare the hell out of me if I had come here with no knowledge trying to decide if I can handle it.

I agree with 100% on this statement and it does happen an awful lot here. When I first told my SO how far down the rabbit hole this goes (because she sorta knew but didn't which is a long story), I asked her that she came to me if she had questions and I would do my best to answer them as honestly as possible.

I did not tell her she couldn't come here and do some reading but I explained that if she did, she would find a whole bunch of different scenarios, with each sister being different and her needs also being just as different. I didn't want her to think because of all the transitioning talk that I was eventually going to go that route myself but for an SO to just come here on her own to research this CDing? she surely will walk away with the wrong ideas.


Just today I read posts complaining about limits, begging for acceptance, talking about how you cannot ever escape dressing and it will always spiral and the world doesn't understand and wives are unfair and and and

I also agree with the some of this. If your SO isn't accepting of this, sadly, she probably never will be. Sure you can be in a DADT relationship but I always sort of saw that as continuing the lie.

As for limits, I have always had a problem with this. When two people enter into a marriage or relationship, it's suppose to be like a partnership. The good, the bad, and the ugly.....together. Not one lording over the other. When that happens there is a huge lack of respect happening there that needs to be communicated.

Now the part I disagree with is the "you cannot ever escape dressing", this is a very valid statement because it is true. You can't. You may be able to put it away, purge, and everything else to bury it but it will always come back to the surface no matter how hard you try to suppress it, and suppressing it is very unhealthy. Bottling things up is never a good thing, you become an unbearable time bomb....and that is never good for any relationship.


yet you are either completely intolerant of the feelings of your SO that is staying by your side but insisting on DADT, limits or boundaries, SERIOUSLY?

For me, and I speak for myself here, I would never let my SO treat me like a child. ever. I think I find the "insisting" part of this statement disturbing. You could sit like two grown people and talk about a compromise and if you both agree with it then fine but no one should ever go through their lives being lead by anyone else or being told what they can or can not do when the thing being done harms absolutely no one. If it is harmful that's another story but CDing isn't.

How would you feel if Your husband put limits or boundaries on you? I promise you wouldn't like it. We talk about women crossdressing all the time and how no one says a word about it.What if he did? What if he said "oh hell no you can't get that shirt from the men's section, would you anyways? My SO buys shirts for herself all the time in the men's section, she never asks permission to do so, why should I?



I see the vast majority talk about how dressing makes you FEEL, yet you selfishly want to invalidate the feelings of an SO, child, friend, parent or other family?!?
Yeah a perfect world no one would care or have any feeling whatsoever about what you wear, but that ain't the world we live in, so most likely your SO or whoever else is going to have an opinion and feelings about it, so deal with it. You don't get to decide how people feel, just like they don't get to decide what you prefer to wear.

I won't lie, this statement lost me a bit. There is a double standard in there. So your saying that our feelings don't matter but we should respect what others are feeling as if their feelings are more important than ours? We can't decide how they feel but they can decide how we feel? come on now....Your opening statement was SO powerful then you get to this paragraph and it becomes a complete mess.



If you want someone to respect your choice of clothing you also have to respect their comfort level! I mean seriously, I prefer to not wear clothes at home, but my 4 teenagers feel more comfortable when I do, so I do! It isn't that they don't accept that I like being naked, it just makes them uncomfortable! I could seriously go on and on about this but I think you get my point.

Actually no, it's like comparing apples and oranges. We are still clothed regardless of the clothing we chose to wear, we aren't running around naked. Matter of fact, I wear more when I "dress" than when I am in my everyday attire.

The whole comfort level stems from a bunch of ideas from those who think they are better than us and have instilled the idea of what is right or wrong throughout our whole lives, which we should just accept and never question.


If you truly love your SO and respect her, give her the option to accept you, do not force her to live a lie, it is selfish and just wrong. If you think she wouldn't accept you or it would end the relationship, well, newsflash, it shouldn't be. What I mean is, if she doesn't love and respect you enough to accept you, why are you there?!?! I get it, you love her, but really, honestly, are either of you truly living a life of love if is full of lies? Imagine for just one minute how she would feel if tomorrow you were released from your mortal coil, what would that mean to her. Yeah yeah I hear you, but my hidden stash has a note explaining everything. She will be fine. Soooooo if you think she will be fine, TELL HER! I mean even the most accepting person in the world would have questions after finding that note but you are denying her the ability to ask ANYTHING, yet she will absolutely question EVERYTHING! If my SO hid it from me and I found a note and stash of female clothing I would wonder had I lived and loves a lie? Did he really love me? Was he gay? Why didn't he tell me? Did he think so little of me? The list of questions goes on and on

Stand up and be judged. That's how I read this.

This isn't a cakewalk for us. We have lived with this since a young age, it goes back to being fed what is right or wrong, we have been fed that this is wrong behavior. That it is abnormal behavior. If it was you, because there are FTM CD's, would you, after having held this secret for X number of years, be willing to just tell everyone you ever dated about it? no, you wouldn't. I promise you wouldn't. What make you seem to think that it should be "that easy" for us?

We see all kinds of people, from all kinds of lives, get crapped on just for being who they are, without the CDing, because we are living by other people standards our whole life, which was planted there from birth. So we should just tell everyone right away just to suffer the same fate? Sorry, we haven't been wired that way. It really is all a mind game on us and i think we may realize that but it doesn't make a lot of the choices we make in life any easier.

Now, I am assuming here that you are talking about a marriage and not just dating. Anyone who is dating and brings this forth is a fool. I am not saying that if you have been with someone say like six months, you shouldn't bring it up but not in the first month that's for sure.

If after you have been with whoever for awhile, you should have a good feel for what kind of person they are, If she is the vindictive type, then you should end the relationship. If she likes to gossip alot for no reason, you should probably do the same because the next person she is going to stab in the back is you. But if all is well, and if you are ready, then by all means you should.

I STRONGLY feel that you should never walk that aisle without having the talk the minute you want to propose to who ever. If you want to spend the rest of your days with this person, you have to go into it honestly. Going into a bond dishonestly is never a good thing but dating? I just don't see it.

In the end you talk alot about giving Her/Him a choice, I ask you this, who denied us our choice as to whether or not we wanted to carry this burden our whole life?

I am not saying your wrong juliette on a lot of the points you make but I do feel that some of this is one sided.

[Purple Puppy GG]

[QUOTE=Sierra_juliette;3683023]This is far from a marketing idea, nor am I trying to line everyone up in a row and call it all the same type of crossdresser. What I am saying is that it is frustrating as all heck to read so many people in this forum complain that their wife restricts them, has certain feelings about his dressing, is understanding etc, yet I have not seen one person 'stand up' and say 'she may be restricting me, requiring DADT, but she stays by my side'. I hear/read a whole lot of why cant the world accept us as we are, yet you (figuratively) do not accept your SO for how she is, accept that she doesn't want to see it, or has boundaries.


Sierra,I agree with you, on your statement a lot.....

[Sierra_juliette]

Joanne,

I think that you have absolutely misread or misunderstood some of what I posted.

So let me say this:

I never suggested dressing can be quit or put away, quite the opposite. I actually think someone who says they quit is fooling themselves, it (dressing) must be done or you will go crazy. Period. BUT it can be done respectfully. What I mean by this is that every relationship has boundaries or compromises. So no I would not be angry or tormented if my husband put reasonable boundaries on me for something.

If a SO asks you to not dress around her, not go out in public, not dress in intimate times etc, these are reasonable requests or boundaries. If she says you cannot ever do it again, then that isn't a boundary, that is a forbidding and when you need to rethink staying in that relationship.

You are fooling yourself if you think every relationship and every person doesn't already have boundaries placed on them.

Stand up and be judged? Yeah well if that is how you see it. Sure. How about be honest with the person you chose to share your life with, chances are you knew before marrying her, she deserves to know, for the reasons I have listed in many other posts so I won't repeat it again.

As for who gave you the choice? Well unfortunately it wasn't a choice, HOWEVER, does that mean you have the right to kick your feet and say the world isn't fair to me so I can be unfair to someone else.

As for one sided, yeah I am, but what many fail to see is that the side that I am on is YOURS, in favor of you being out in the open, without fear of being found out, without judgment.

The more hiding is condoned, expressed, encouraged, especially in a group where SO's can come and read; shows to many that it is shameful, guilt worthy desires. Yes unfortunately some will always hide it, but i think it is silly and close minded to think that 1) you can hide it forever 2) she won't be devastated if she finds out on her own especially after you pass away and 3) she doesn't have a clue already.

As for apples and oranges, well no. It isn't. What you choose to wear or not wear can be offensive to others. Period. Always the case. If you rather: I have a shirt that says 'Polite as F*#K' yet I don't wear it outside my home because it would make some other people uncomfortable. It is called having compassion and respect for other people. If the SO is uncomfortable with it or says it can never happen, well it may be time to evaluate what you can agree on or seek counseling or possibly end that relationship.

I could go on and on here; most of it has already been said and much of what I say seems to be taken or twisted wrongly by someone so I will end with this:

Yes, it is wrong to insist or demand anything of anyone, especially someone you are choosing to share your life with. HOWEVER, is it any different to hide it and lie about it to an SO? I say no, you have passively insisted or demanded that she live with your choices and that is just as bad if not worse in my opinion and the opinion of many, many people I know.

(For the record, this all comes from someone who lost the majority of her family, including my mother who was previously a dear close friend, because they can't accept the choices I have made in who I am married to, so I KNOW fear of losing, I know loss over CD lifestyle)

[Nadine Spirit]

Also, I understand the not forcing others to disclose, BUT especially for those who are married or have children with their SO, is it fair at all to passively force the SO to live a life she has not even had the option to live?

I am well aware that the urge will never go away, however new dressers and SOs also need to know that it does not always escalate to full time or transitioning. That is the major fear of a large majority of SOs. Yes, balance! Like cutting back on sweets, you cannot deny yourself the small cravings or you will eventually eat the whole damned cake. I get it.

I 'preach' balance to my husband all the time, dress regularly so that it no longer controls you, you control it.

OMG Sierra, this is so right on!

You know my wife joined this forum but she doesn't really participate. She gets so frustrated by the vast amount of absurdity on this site, from both male and female. But she doesn't want to call anyone out so she chooses instead to just say nothing. Which is her choice, which is fine, but I often say, if those of us with differing opinions never speak up, the other opinions are the only ones that will ever be heard.

Good for you for speaking up!

[justmetoo]

I think this is a good and interesting and enlightening discussion. I think I get a lot of what Sierra_juliette is saying, as well as some good points made by others. As pretty much a perpetually single (except for one long distance relationship that didn't work out due to numerous factors, including some of my own actions) CD I read these threads and hope to learn something from them if I ever have the good fortune to apply any lessons in "real life". I appreciate it! :)

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Sierra,
FYI. My So is aware of my CDing, but prior to her awareness I was really struggling with this
tell don't tell thing. I searched here through many threads, much like this one, only to find myself more
confused. I never did have to make that decision, a single selfie on my phone made me come clean.
So please let me see if I can make this sound senseible.
You hope that we as crossdressers all come clean with our SO's because death is looming over us.
How many "vanilla" world people actually plan ahaead for their own demise?
Who really wants to even think of such a thing?
Yeah it may seem selfish to leave this world with a lot of unanswered questions, but that
again comes back to accepting ourselves.
So quit beating the dead horse, and try to find another way to preach to us that our SO's all deserve to know
that we are doing this behind their backs. Again there is a comfort level that needs to be found within each of us before that reveal can be made.
Discussions like this that go back and forth don't help the person that is sitting on the fence., and can't decide which side to fall.
Death for all of us is certain, enjoying the love of our SO's while alive is a wonderful gift. Would you purposely throw such a gift away for anything?
I'd much rather think that my So would carry on living her life, and remember the love we shared together regardless of the unanswered questions I may have left behind.
You say you are on our side, all I'm saying is find a way to help us accept ourselves, rather than berating us for being uncaring, and deceitful.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Nikkilovesdresses]

SJ- I'm reading a good cross section of responses here, and I'm only seeing you getting further entrenched, not really acknowledging or responding to what those who disagree say. You seem to be taking a black and white stance and shooting down all who don't buy your reasoning 100%.

That you feel intensely about this is crystal clear. What is less clear is why. I note that another gg, Purple Puppy, agrees with you, but she doesn't explain why either!

You started this thread, and you seem deeply indignant that others disagree, at least in part, with your view. That makes it a rant, not a debate. I'd like to see you expand on your view, and I'd like to see you respond without simply shouting louder, to what others have said. Your insights are of great value, but if you really want to help you need to explain the emotions that are driving them.

Right now I'm starting to wonder if on some level you feel disillusioned with the life you've chosen- I didn't realize till just now that your 2nd marriage has cost you the support of your mother and other family members- that's appalling and I'm sad to hear it. Perhaps they equate your first husband's violence with his crossdressing and fear you've walked into a replica marriage- I've no doubt they're telling you they only have your best interests at heart.

I realise I've burned my bridges in terms of personal response, but for the sake of the debate, I hope you can provide some further illumination.

[Finally Happy]

Right now I'm starting to wonder if on some level you feel disillusioned with the life you've chosen- I didn't realize till just now that your 2nd marriage has cost you the support of your mother and other family members- that's appalling and I'm sad to hear it. Perhaps they equate your first husband's violence with his crossdressing and fear you've walked into a replica marriage- I've no doubt they're telling you they only have your best interests at heart.

Thank you for the diagnoses doctor. Thanks for implying that I would harm my wife, Sierra Juliette. And that's why I don't post on these forums and just affirms why it's time to stop reading them again.

[Sierra_juliette]

Okay, let me be perfectly clear here.

I have very clearly explained my reasoning for my opinions, so much so that other responses have suggested I quit explaining them. So to accuse me of not doing so only tells me that you have either only skimmed what has been written or have no desire to actually absorb what I have written. I hear the opposition loud and clear. I get it, I honestly get it.

I was an addict, I understand having to tell loved ones a deep dark secret. I know how terrifying it is, however, as I have very clearly explained several times, however if you would like me to explain my reasons, please feel free to reread my many previous responses.

If after truly reading what I have said and explained you have a specific question feel free to ask me.

I will say that as for your last comments, well this, this is exactly the kind of diagnostic, harmful BS that I have spoken about. You have decided in your head that I am doubting my life, couldn't be further from the truth so let me explain a little something about that...

My first husband beat and almost killed me, yes, my family knew. When I met my husband (current) and found the strength to escape my abusive marriage, MY FAMILY SUPPORTED THE MAN THAT TRIED TO KILL ME, because he, they thought, was a 'normal man'. So you could not be further from the truth. Let me be extremely clear here: I have not for one moment doubted, been disillusioned or worried about my choice of husband or any other choices in my life accept perhaps the choice I made to try to post, explain and expand on how I and MANY other people feel (GG and CD) but are afraid to say.

One of my main issues is that people like to jump in and diagnose things they know nothing about, that this is supposed to be a safe place yet my husband has gotten nothing but irritated because, what I am told is the minority here, like to spout off and imply that everyone who is CDer wants to be a woman or are something more than just a man in a dress. People throw around terms like gender dysphoroa or other things that tend to blanket diagnose others.

So I sit here knowing that your insists be to do exactly what I complained about, diagnosing others, has made this couple absolutely appalled and realizing that this is forum may not be what we thought.

[Sierra_juliette]

I would/should also add, this type of attack on my motives is exactly why so few GGs post or respond. There are many GG members who have questions and insight yet are afraid to ask or post.

[NicoleScott]

But alas, I see that no matter how I explain it, I am preaching/ranting to an audience that doesn't want an opinion from an 'outsider'.

SJ, if you want your opinions respected, try presenting them without the condescension and judgement.

[Tina_gm]

SJ this forum is I believe still a good place overall. And you have several of us cders who are ok with your thread and even primarily agreeing with it.

But I almost find it amusing that there are some who feel your opinion is to inflexible because you won't agree with them, even though they won't change their own view one bit either. So, just roll with that I don't think you need to be in a battle with anyone to change anyone's view, yours or theirs.

It is so very important to get a view from someone who does accept this lifestyle. It's not just about the clothes we wear. There so much else that goes along with it. Lies, narcissistic behavior.... pity parties.... all or nothing mindsets. we can all improve more Than merely our feminine image.

[Sarasometimes]

SJ
Firstly, hats off to you for having "not for one moment doubted, been disillusioned or worried about my choice of husband or any other choices in my life accept perhaps the choice I made to try to post"! This is an amazing accomplishment for anyone I would say over the age of 30 to be able to say. To hear it from someone who has lived the life you have is extraordinary. To have chosen a first husband who nearly killed you and for you to be able to still feel that way is terrific! I wish to apologize for mine and other posts who have potentially caused you to do that as a result of what was written here.
I being just a mere crossdressing mortal who has doubted choices i have made, will look up to you after you truthfully answer these two questions and explain why you feel that way and satisfy my need to know.

Do you know more about my situation than I do? Do I know more information about your situation than you do?

Thank you and really in the scheme of things this is just a discussion.

[Tina_gm]

I don't believe it is relevant that she knows more about your situation. She has merely stated an opinion on certain aspects which are mainly about lying and deception and the destructive consequences they wield. I believe many of us should not broaden the scope of her opinion farther than what it entails. She is not putting down cding, just lies and deception mostly. cding shouldn't get a special exemption for this behavior.

[NicoleScott]

It has been discussed here many times, and without resolution, whether or not withholding information (crossdressing) is lying and deceitful. People are going to have their opinions. It seems to me that SJ has exercised her right to express her opinion but has not respected the right of others to express differing opinions as evidenced by rebutting nearly every one.
Good for SJ for surviving a tragic past, but that doesn't qualify her as an expert on the relationship between other CDers and their wives.

[MichelleDevon]

Come on, girls...why do we have to get so antagonistic towards someone who is "on our side"?

Seems to me that Sierra was voicing an opinion from her perspective as a GG. Whatever any of us may believe about who we are we are none of us GGs...unless we have some FtM members here. That essentially means Sierra comes at this whole issue from a different standpoint and therefore it looks different to her than it does to us. I believe she is trying hard to help us and encourage us to be more open in the interests of our own mental state and, hopefully, in the interests of promoting trusting relationships with our SOs in respect of our cross-dressing.

Indeed, on a different thread she has also been exploring the possibility of providing facilities to support CDs in aspects of their lives. And yet there are those here who choose to take issue with her. Most of us have more than enough angst and argument with GGs in the shape of our SOs to last a lifetime - why then pick an argument with someone who, as a GG herself, is trying positively to help us in our dealings with our SOs. Sierra levelled a number of generalised criticisms at us as a group which was perhaps unjustified but who amongst us has not done that sort of thing in the past?

So come on, those of you who are still arguing, take a step back, look at the bigger picture - here is a GG who has significant experience of cross-dressers, has embraced it fully and is trying to help us make it less of an issue in our personal lives and in a wider societal context. Sierra is a valuable helping hand for us not a saboteur trying to undermine us.

Keep up the good work Sierra, I for one both appreciate and enjoy your input.

Michelle
xxx

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Thanks for implying that I would harm my wife, Sierra Juliette.

Good grief- how on earth do you interpret my words as implying that! Here's what SJ said: "For the record, this all comes from someone who lost the majority of her family, including my mother who was previously a dear close friend, because they can't accept the choices I have made in who I am married to..."

I think if you read my words, which you quoted, more calmly you'll see I offered sympathy for JS's family situation, and only speculated about their reasons for rejecting her. As to your mutual stance re this thread, plainly any further discussion is pointless.

[Sierra_juliette]

Seriously??

I have NEVER claimed to be a professional or expert on the matter!!

If you read my original post I said I had to get it off my chest, I never said 'listen here, I am an expert, do as I say'

No! I have given you my opinions and been in turn accused of being close minded, condescending, judgmental and a dozen other things at least.

Yes, I rebut, that is what a debate is!!! Am I supposed to just roll over and say, 'oh you are right, I don't understand how someone in my shoes would feel, you absolutey deserve to lie and hide your CD habit! How silly of me to suggest otherwise!'

Just as all of you have your own opinions, and express them, I have mine and thought I could express my PERSPECTIVE (note that is the title of my post, perspective).

I have gotten many many private messages from both sides who were afraid to agree with me in this public forum for fear of getting the same accusations thrown at them.

[Amy Fakley]

240043

Seriously though, I do appreciate your viewpoint on this stuff Sierra, you just touched a collective nerve. Someone should start another "whats the deal with pantyhose??!" thread to cool the reactor. Lol :-)

[Sierra_juliette]

You know what is evil!?! Acrylic nails and pantyhose together! It is a lose lose situation!! Talk about runs and holes!

[Tina_gm]

I wish it wouldn't even turn into such a debate. I don't think this needs to be turned into such a debate. For those who choose deception and dishonesty, accept the fate it brings you. For those who choose honesty accept the fate that brings you. No, it won't all be sunshine and roses. But at least it will be freedom. At least it will lead to a greater understanding. We should accept that there will be a different view from a different pair of eyes. It's more than just I m right and they are Wrong. We can disagree perhaps, and we can do so with respect. I hope we can maintain our hard fought integrity here.

[Sierra_juliette]

I agree that I know there will always be some who choose to hide it, but in my opinion it is very unfair to those who are not given the choice to live that lie.

If nothing else, I say at least take the time to think of as many questions as possible, ask for help in coming up with them and leave your SO a video in your stash (or a letter, video seems better to me) and answer all of the questions she may have if she finds it, especially if she finds it because she has lost you.

I don't claim to have all of the answers, life would be boring if I did. What I do have is my perspective.

When it comes down to it, whether you agree with me, disagree, think I am judging or not, I love all of you, I think some are batty as hell but I love that you have embraced something within yourself that society does not YET accept. SO at the end of the day, you may get mad at me for my opinion but just like with my friends and family, we don't have to agree for me to love and respect you.

If you take nothing else from what I post please, please, please hear this:

Consider telling your SO, even if it has to be hidden with your stash to be found later. Please stop diagnosing others in the forum, please. When you use terms like gender identity, dysphoria, or generalize the entire CD world, it alienates those who are desperately trying to find support and a safe place.

[mykell]

Seriously??

I have NEVER claimed to be a professional or expert on the matter!!

If you read my original post I said I had to get it off my chest, I never said 'listen here, I am an expert, do as I say'

No! I have given you my opinions and been in turn accused of being close minded, condescending, judgmental and a dozen other things at least.

Yes, I rebut, that is what a debate is!!! Am I supposed to just roll over and say, 'oh you are right, I don't understand how someone in my shoes would feel, you absolutey deserve to lie and hide your CD habit! How silly of me to suggest otherwise!'

Just as all of you have your own opinions, and express them, I have mine and thought I could express my PERSPECTIVE (note that is the title of my post, perspective).

I have gotten many many private messages from both sides who were afraid to agree with me in this public forum for fear of getting the same accusations thrown at them.


I would/should also add, this type of attack on my motives is exactly why so few GGs post or respond. There are many GG members who have questions and insight yet are afraid to ask or post.

hi sierra, me again,
please dont take this so personal, these are just opinions, some more passionate then others. if this was politics this scenario would be our political football.....(tell or dont tell, always turns into a springer episode) so should we punt..... give the ball back to the other team or go for it on fourth down and jam the ball up theyre ______, and so on, nobody wins really even when you score some points because this game is in perpetual overtime.

there are worse places than here on the web, (just scroll down to the bottom of the page and check the state forums and such)none better that i found.....

did we drift away from the fact that you presented that we should stand up for our beliefs and stand our ground and present ourselves in a public light, free of fear and condemnation for being who we really are and our right to be that.....ourselves......we did......sorry that happened......its was a important part of what you proposed and it got lost in all the different attributes of the group, personal feelings.....opinions, (post #21).....

you had a lot of support here too so dont loose focus.....so i hope you will share more with us.....and like i said im not the poster girl of transgender support...i hope one day we overcome the stigma's we deal with.......and with any cause this is worth the good fight.....lets concentrate on that part......im trying to get into the sunlight....

as far as the PMs its to bad they didnt share.....

[Hell on Heels]

Batty as Hell !!! What? Why single me out! Ha Ha !
Just kidding Sierre,
Really though I do agree that it's much easier to live a CD life without
the guilt of the hiding. Again risk and reward is different for all.
I think leaving a parting note and or video is not a bad idea, but there would
more than likely still be some unanswered questions.
I also agree that there are some members here that do diagnose others as
being in the fast track lane, and they shouldn't fight it, just accept your going to transition.
IMO those people are batty (not as Hell). My hope is that people are smart enough to
find that type of diagnosis from others as BS, and will find answers elsewhere.
Thanks for sharing your perspective with us. Things do lose there meaning when put into written words.
Someone's mood while reading can affect the way they hear the words in their head.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Nikkilovesdresses]

SJ's latest, post 72 seems a sensible, workable compromise- I agree totally that a personal video is one hell of a lot better than nothing, better than just a letter. As we've seen, the written word is too easily misunderstood.

And I dislike pantyhose.

[AnnieMac]

You know what is evil!?! Acrylic nails and pantyhose together! It is a lose lose situation!! Talk about runs and holes!

Awesome! Sierra you kill me! Too funny!

[justmetoo]

Look at the title of the thread: From a GG's Perspective, and read the posts with an eye to trying to understand what is being said, without getting defensive about what it says. I think Sierra_juliette has made some good and valuable points and I hope she continues to speak out. For me this kind of information is the greatest value on this site. Sure, it's nice to get some validation or kind words from fellow CDs, and maybe some tips on aspects of presentation or on getting out and doing things en femme, as well as other insights from those who are in relationships of various degrees of acceptance or lack thereof. And I definitely enjoy the light-hearted threads and humor. But the number of GGs willing to engage in discussions, offer their views on things, and more often than not offer lots of love and support, is small enough. I wish I could let all of them know how much I (and I'm sure many others) value their input and presence here. I love you all!

[NicoleScott]

I guess I didn't recognize "STOP IT!" and "How dare you..." as perspective.

[Rachelakld]

So love you SJ.
And if Nadine's wife and others could join, this site would give us a better understanding of many things.

[Jessica S]

Sierra_juliette ,

I have been a member here since 2005 and only posted 103 times, but I am on here regularly. I don't post much mostly do to vocal minority usually kills my ambitions to post on most threads. I can understand what you said in the first post about scaring the SO's. My wife is not on here and she knows and supports my cross-dressing. She sometimes reads over my shoulder and shakes her head. I said they are just the ones that bark the loudest. They are not what most of us are. They are the ones that jump on people tell, them they need to be out in about, that all should dress to the nines ( no guys in dress ) or they are doing cross-dressing a disservice. The forget we are a guys in women's clothing and it is not the social norm. But if you can weed through those post for the most part there is good advice here and you do feel like you are the only one in the world that does it. Keep speaking your mind there are always going to be people with a different point of view. But that's all right it makes for some good discussions.

[Seana Summer]

I have been away for a few days so I have been reading through a few post tonight to catch up. The thing that really struck me was the original post about not scaring S.O.'s and those who are new to CDing and looking here for advice and support here. I can see where someone could really get a skewed impression of what CDing is all about by reading any 1 site on the internet.

I think I am a very good example of someone who is just a Crossdresser, I have not "progressed" much in the last few years other than becoming more comfortable and at peace with my CDing. I have no intention of ever transitioning. I just love to wear the cloths and I certainly seem to be (at least of the somewhat vocal) a minority here. I kind of wish those who are like me, but are just lurking, would post more.......

[donnalee]

Sierra, I've read your posts on this thread and think perhaps you may be equating crossdressing with addiction. This is simply not the case, although they have received the same negative public reaction for a long time. Having been on both sides of that street, I feel that I can justifiably comment.
Crossdressing is an inherent part of one's nature; it is no more changeable than one's height (although it may change itself over time, as height can). Addiction is something done to achieve a pleasurable response and to keep repeating it until one dies or hits a point where it become unbearable and manages to stop.
Although the 2 appear similar, they are really not comparable, but it is easy to see where they can be confused. Since addiction is in your experience, I can see where that can color your outlook. You are to be congratulated for successfully coming out of that, but, it is not related to the issues raised on this forum.
Most of those who don't tell their SOs are more concerned about them than they are about themselves; it is not a happy or willing choice, but may be the best they can come up with under the circumstances after careful consideration. Part of the difficulty is that it may not manifest until far into the marriage or be put on hold for a number of years; you can't inform someone if you don't know yourself or are unsure of what's happening. To criticize someone for doing the best they can is, at best, unhelpful and can border on vicious in many cases.
One thing that never seems to be mentioned is if you love someone, this is an essential part of the person you love, not what you thought they were, but what they are. To reject that is to say that your judgement (or instinct or whatever you use for this) is faulty; if it was faulty then, why isn't it now?

[pamela7]

Seana, I'm also a CD'er, and not interested in transitioning xxx Pamela

[Sierra_juliette]

Donnalee, I appreciate that addiction and crossdressing are not equal; however they are similar enough to compare.

As I read your post my first thought is yes, some do come into if after marriage, so then, why would you not discuss it when it comes up? I know, I know, fear. Here is my confusion about that; my spouse is my partner for the rest of my life, the person I can count on and come to, so if I started having ANY new desires or anything else come up he is the person I would come go to and talk about it, because I know he loves me, for who I am in my heart and will support and listen to me. That to me is my confusion for that situation.

I think that you may have missed quite a bit of what I have said in this post but that's okay, I will simply say not one thing I have ever posted here on this forum has ever been written to be vicious, quite the opposite, I think anyone here would have a hard time finding a more accepting and supportive person, anywhere.

Bottom line is that I adore my husband, for his heart, his soul, the person he is inside and that could never change. My post was meant to show my perspective on hiding it and to remind others that some of the posts here tend to keep others on the outside as some have clearly responded is the case for them.

[sometimes_miss]

Sierra, the first thing you have to understand it that most people here don't even understand what caused us to be the way we are in the first place, so it's difficult for many to define what crossdressing is to us. So it's not always a 'growing monster' on a one way track.

Second, one really big problem we have is that women usually don't know what they're sexually attracted to or why, either. Time after time you see women who say that they want one type of man, yet continually date and marry the opposite type, all in the name of some unknown 'chemistry'. So all we have to go on is the knowledge that close to 99% of women are turned off by crossdressing, so there alone you have a huge reason why we're reluctant to take what seems like an almost definite chance destroying the lives we have worked a lifetime to build.

I have seen many confused posts, from new/young dressers as well as SO's that just had their lives altered forever finding out their husband or boyfriend wears female clothing.
And this is not the fault of the crossdresser! I'm not necessarily saying it's the woman's fault either, but it IS her decision to make this one, and only one, behavior the determining one that decides everything about us. I lived this; Everything else about me (or most, as far as I am told) is more than acceptable, and attractive. But the crossdressing is the one thing that women will find as a deal breaker, even if they never have to deal with it in person. Both women and men fall in love with the image that they create of the person, made up of everything they know about them. Screw up that image and the love, and lust can quickly vanish. Consider all the women over the years that learned later in life that their husband was unfaithful decades ago, and suddenly declare that they never really knew him at all, and file for divorce. One thing, while unknown, and the person is great. Change that, all of a sudden they are mean lying *******s. But only one thing has changed. The person himself is exactly the same as he has been for a very long time, no behavior or feelings from him have changed at all, ever. Only her preception is different. You women may feel slighted that we didn't tell you something that YOU think is important, yet judging from our lives together up until that point, it certainly didn't matter to you at all! Everything about us was just fine yesterday; you loved us and found us sexy. Now all of a sudden you interpret us as something completely different, even though we are exactly the same as we were the day before. YOU made the decision to denigrate us for wearing female clothes and feeling good emulating women. So the decision you need to make now, is why you feel that way? Do you really hate what being female stands for so much that feeling female, dressing female, and being comfortable with that feeling is such a horrible thing? Or are you insecure that you can't handle the concept that a male might ever not be the strong, protective, self sacrificing person that you think you absolutely need in a husband? It all makes me wonder, but few women can handle the self introspection; when I have posed this question to other women, they immediately go on the offensive rather than consider the feelings that result from the question asked.
Yes, we deserve to be accepted and loved. But for the great majority of us, that's not ever going to happen, whether we are out or not. And coming out brings along it's own set of problems too. No one wants their lives to become more difficult; just because our SO's knowledge, feelings become altered and more difficult for her to deal with, why must ours automatically become a nightmare as well? Just because she feels it's hard for her so we should be penalized too? Now that's not a nice thing either.

The last point I have is quit hiding and lying! If you truly love your SO and respect her, give her the option to accept you, do not force her to live a lie, it is selfish and just wrong. If you think she wouldn't accept you or it would end the relationship, well, newsflash, it shouldn't be. What I mean is, if she doesn't love and respect you enough to accept you, why are you there?!?!
We're there because for the most part, we have no choice. If we want a relationship with a woman, it's really the only option. I've been on online dating sites for 15 years now, and the number of women I have met who are OK with crossdressers I can count on less than one hand. I put up two ads: One with all the normal info, the second with the add on at the end that I occasionally crossdress. Guess which one got hundreds of hits, and the other, only responses from prostitutes and call girls? I think you know the answer already. There simply is NOWHERE for us to find straight women to date. Nowhere. There are no crossdresser/straight girl singles bars, no crossdresser straight girl dating sites (the one that professes to be is inhabited entirely by men, with a few GG's who are already with BF/SO, and several fake females that the company uses to get us to pay for membership, and then those GG's never anwswer us or deny they ever sent a message of interest). There is no option for us.
Force you to lIve a lie? Once we tell you, the only lie left becomes the one you decide to make or not. You either accept your mate, or not. The pages in this forum pretty much indicate that the latter is the most often choice.

Why didn't he tell me? Did he think so little of me?
Again, we know the ramifications of coming out, and none of them are good. It's not that we think little of you, but you have to admit, virtually no women know why they are really attracted to their mate. What you say you want, and what you really want are often two entirely different things.

So, I say, how dare you deny this woman who you claim to love, respect and want to protect, the chance to actually know you [quote]
We never really know anyone. No one tells the other every single detail of our lives to our mates. It's simply impossible to go over every single thing that occurred to us in our lifetimes. We initially only tell the best; the mediocre comes later, and the worst, sometimes never. We have to decide what we feel is important for you to know, just as you might omit the fact that you had sex with three guys in the football team when you were 19. It's something that either no longer is part of who you are, or you believe isn't relevent to your relationship with your SO.

[quote]I am not saying drop everything and tell her now, but tell her! She deserves to know and YOU deserve to be accepted.
The problem with that statement is, she gets what you say she deserves, but the vast majority of the cases, he does not. And yet, women see that as a perfectly acceptable result.


if she cannot accept you or hates that you crossdress she aint the one for you. Its brutal but its true - theres a great big world out there and there are those with strength enough to accept. Dont accept a life less lived.
That in a nutshell is what we feel entitled to do. Those of us who remain closeted simply want out of life what everyone else is allowed to pursue, without the anchor of crossdressing constantly pulling us beneath the surface, drowning us before we even have a chance. We want a normal life. But in order to get it, we have to keep the fact of our crossdressing out of site, or our chances become zilch.

For those women who simply don't understand, consider this scenario: No matter how good you look, no matter how good in bed you are, no matter how smart you are, how nice your family is, what a nice home you have, a great, wonderful family, you could be Miss America, a Victoria's secret model, playboy playmate of the month, or the hot actress in hit movies or TV. But even if you're all of the above, consider what it would be like if 99.25% of the men you date won't ever want to go out with you a second time. What do you think your chances are? You'll have to date at least 100 men to meet even one that MIGHT be what you want, and that's before even learning anything else about him, and even more, him learning anything about the real you. How many men did you date before you got married? Was it 100? If not, you would never even come close to have met your SO.

[Sierra_juliette]

I would welcome you to ask my husband or any of my friends if they would consider me a typical GG in anyway, I bet they would not agree with your assessment.

As for complaining about dressing, I am not and never have, never will. My complaint is lying, hiding or being deceitful in any way, whether it is dressing, drugs, alcohol, cheating or any other behavior. As this is not an alcohol, drug, or cheating forum, I did not address those things.

[Nigella]

Carla, I think you have made your views on your relationship well known on this forum. Each member has the right to post and if necessary get out the soap box, it is not an excuse for you to put them down because their views do not reflect yours.

[AllieSF]

I would welcome you to ask my husband or any of my friends if they would consider me a typical GG in anyway, I bet they would not agree with your assessment.

Sierra, first, thanks for all the support and willingness to state your belief in this thread topic. I noted in your first replies to some of the reasons (defenses as some have taken them, or counter attacks) that it seemed that you were ready to close shop and leave the topic, because to me you seemed to be as defensive against any counter reasoning to your opinion as you thought the others were to your statements. Thanks again for staying around, and hopefully you will see that many of those responses have merit too. However, as Sometimes_miss stated above, what has changed in the person after they make the big reveal to their SO? Nothing! And yet many times the SO's reaction is totally negative and that prior wonderful, with normal complications, relationship can never be the same. Not because the TG was honest, as recommended and pushed so strongly by some here, but because the SO is not able to maturely handle the situation fairly. You know I never see the SO's criticizing themselves for their over reacting and total lack of understanding and refusals to try and understand something so important and sensitive about their spouse. Why is that? I read here all the time us CD's criticizing ourselves and other CD's when we are in the wrong, especially with regards to how we treat our SO's.

The answer to the oft stated question as to whether the TG does not trust his SO to deal with the truth, is that, of course they don't trust them. Just read the varied responses from the members here. They don't talk about that lack of trust, they talk about the negative and relationship changing results for the reveal based on how their SO's react. Many others do not want to reveal based on what they read and what they know about their SO. If they truly knew their SO, which is very difficult for most people, they may be able to maybe predict their response and "trust" their feeling that the outcome of the reveal would be positive, or at least not very negative. Yes, some reveals work out, sometimes like rare fairy tales with the SO actually participating, but the vast majority do not and end up in awkward and very difficult to maintain DADT situations in all their varied forms. Where is that stereotypical compassion and understanding so often related to women's characters when needed? To be honest I don't see it here very often. Really, only when courageous SO's like yourself join and participate on this site like you have. I see more SO participants here that still overtly show in their written word that they still hold very serious grudges and hard feelings with their TG spouse for being who they are.

I am a true believer in telling you SO when the time is right and before entering into long term commitments. However, it is very important to realize that no two situations are alike and what may work for one may not work for the other. No one knows the details of someone else's life and relationship. No one knows if the SO may not react so negatively that they out their TG spouse to everyone else out of revenge, affecting long term friendships, relationships and even income earning abilities. Yes, those over the top reactions are rare, probably about the same as those fairy tale reactions too. Therefore, I also condition my belief in openness to also include that only the revealer can decide whether it is good or bad to come out, and whether they should or not. We can all recommend, but to demand and many times try to shame someone into doing it is just plain wrong. So, being a written word only support site, I also believe that special effort should also be made to make sure that recommendations stay clear if insisting to the point of shaming someone who has decided to keep this part of themselves private. How to do that? One obvious and simple way would be to at least acknowledge that there are some valid reasons for sometimes not revealing this to SO. Why do I make a point about this? Because there are some that say you "must" tell and many others that insinuate the "must" aspect with no allowance that sometimes secrecy may just be the better option, and I believe that many times there are valid reasons to keep the secret.

Now to the part that I quoted for you last post. I think that you may be basing a lot of your reasoning on your own unique, and yes it is very unique and wonderfully rare, fact if being very "accepting" of your spouse's TGism. Unfortunately, there are so many more, the vast majority of spouses and SO's, that cannot accept it, have a very difficult time tolerating it, with many condemning it as unacceptable. They have found themselves, in their opinion, in a lose-lose situation that they are afraid to get out of. No, they did not know about this before and probably would have not entered the relationship that they now have if they had known. However, they are now in this situation and should learn about it, try to understand it and then decide what to do, versus immediately condemning their spouse to purgatory. They make it a living hell for their spouse, almost as a punishment. That is just as wrong as what others state that the CD is hurting the SO by not telling.

Thanks again for being here, starting this thread and sticking to it. I hope that after a while you will reread many of the responses here and see that there are two sides to every story and issue, their are valid reasons on both sides of the argument, and that defending one's point of view is not automatically an attack on the other person.

[Sierra_juliette]

I absolutely understand that some situations are different, for sure. For me, especially if it is known prior to entering relationship that you are a CDer, this is the time to 'test' the waters and not necessarily tell too soon, but understand whether or not your potential partner is open minded to theses types of things. Again, simply my opinion.

I 1000000% agree that some SOs need to start being critical of themselves. No doubt!! I will be the first to admit that I hear and read things from GGs that make me say 'WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!' I have strong opinions about the way that GGs try to limit or deny CD time and stuff. In my opinion physics come into play here, for every action, equal but opposite reaction. By this I mean if I were to deny it linit my husband's dressing, shame him for it or be negative about it, I should not be surprised when he withdraws, doesn't talk to me, starts sleeping in another room, going out at night or dozens of other things I have seen complaints about.

I have a somewhat unique view I guess in that I see from both sides and am critical of both sides.

If I had a friend confide in me that her husband dresses and started complaining about these things I would absolutely tell her to look in the mirror and see what she is reflecting before she criticize or condemn him.

My original and follow up posts are a glimpse into a very important aspect for SO to consider, the largest majority of SOs will say the lying and/hiding is the hardest thing for them to get over.

[pamela7]

Thing is, imagine telling a person who does not really love you, who might use the information to manipulate or hurt. Imagine the relationship is not in perfect bliss.
I told my present wife, the first-ever person I told, that I had had a bi youth, tears were streaming down my face, it was the bravest thing i felt i'd done on an emotional level. Comparatively, the CD as it emerged was light and easy.

But that was based on trust and a love like I've never experienced before. Not everyone marries for true love, but for convenience, right person at right time, and one's life could be destroyed. Each person must weight their risks, and trust their own judgement.

xxx

[sometimes_miss]

My original and follow up posts are a glimpse into a very important aspect for SO to consider, the largest majority of SOs will say the lying and/hiding is the hardest thing for them to get over.
Perhaps it was for you, but on the whole, I don't believe that is the case. Millions of marriages survive lying, cheating and hiding things, and lots of women go on to marry guys who fooled around on them during the courtship too, but they forgive and move on, because it doesn't affect the sexual attraction. Crossdressing on the other hand, seems to be a straw that breaks the camel's back. The therapist that my ex and I saw before the divorce agreed with my ex that nearly all women partners of her male TG patients would not have entered the marriage had they known that their prospective hubby was a crossdresser.

[Sierra_juliette]

Although I am sure that therapist is an intelligent person, that statement is skewed and does not even compare to what I stated.

As the SO of a CDer, who talks to others in my shoes, the vast majority of them are more hurt by the lying and hiding than anything else. Perhaps it is true that many would not continue the relationship, I am speaking of those who are in the relationship, who now know, the most hurtful part of the entire thing is/was being kept in the dark, secrets and lies.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Sierra, wow, you are indeed incredibly unique & honest. I really enjoy reading your threads, your responses & the varied responses generated by forum members. We all learn a lot from you... And wrestled with envy because our spouses cannot see our cd perspective.

In my situation, I told my wife late last fall of my cding. She was devastated. The man that she married was gone. From her perspective, i ceased being a man , a lover & a friend. The announcement fractured our marriage to the degree where months of therapy haven't made a dent into her negative perception of me. I have not cded since going to therapy because satisfying my need only complicates our relationship.

There are many super responses to this thread. I believe that Allie 's comments are right on target as to my reality... And the reality of many of my cd cohorts. Too many of us have had our feminine selves cloistered because of the problems that spouses live with in no longer seeing their husbands as men; the man that they married, shared a life & family with & want to have sex with. The manly image & self concept has been shot to hell. It is sooo true, an affair can be remedied but cding cannot be forgotten , forgiven and most certainly not accepted. Again, my manly image has been totally shot to hell because of my need to dress & my honesty in trying to share my soul with my spouse.

I don't blame my wife as she didn't ask for this nor would she have ever considered a union with me had I known about this part of me / shared it with her before we married. Sierra, you and the other wives of cders who understand & accept who we are must be Angels. My hope for you is that you will continue to love & support your husband, grace us with your thoughts & supply us with hope that someday, maybe someday , we who are living in hell can find that elusive domestic peace; a peace that certainly would make me feel whole once again. Sierra... You are a blessing in more ways than one. Respectfully, mel

[Erika Lyne]

Sierra Juliet,

Thank you for keeping up with this thread. It seems that you've hit a strong chord with the members here. I value your honesty and your opinion both as a supportive SO and as a GG. I'm sorry if my earlier reply came across harsh. Your original post and first few replies came across to me as hostile, attacking and then harshly defensive. I am not saying that was your intent, just how many read your post, including myself. I know that many of the things you were saying are in support of all the members here. My wife (Purple Puppy GG) read your original post and replied that she agreed with you, she still does and for the most part, I do too. As proof that I agree, I've been honest with my wife about my CDing. I've been out with her since I was 15, she's stayed with me through thick and thin. We have our disagreements about many CD issues. I get it that we will never see eye to eye. Many of the questions that she has had over the years we have had to find the answers together. But WE stayed together. As far as coming out to others; we have 2 daughters and a few friends and family members that know. She insists I come clean with my family, I disagree. I've tried to communicate with my mother and father a few times over the years and have ALWAYS been humiliated or told that it was just a phase and it'll pass. Well, it hasn't passed and (to contradict you a bit) it has progressed. Where it will lead, I do not know. My brothers are highly homophobe. Anything out of the binary offends them greatly and their spouses agree with them, their children too.

My wife has been my supporter, my encouragement and my companion for nearly 30 years. She has her boundaries. I try to honor her limits but my issue with them is that these boundaries require that I put myself away in a draw for her. That can be overwhelming with grief. I do want her to stay but I also need to express myself.

I also want to thank you. I was on the road when I first replied to this thread, as did my wife. When I came home, my wife wanted to talk about my post & I about hers. The next morning, she had a list of points she wanted to talk about and I was not prepared. I was met with tears and a heated discussion. Sure, things don't always go as planned and we did fight but, we did have an open discussion about how we both feel regarding CDing because of your original post.

As I read your further replies to the concerned members of this thread, I realize that you are in support of all types of people who are here on these forums. The last few replies, your civility has come out and I really feel that your message is welcomed. Myself, I'm known as having a short temper. I'm known to start a conversation with a point of view that may be a bit differing than others around me, the discussion can escalate into a heated argument with little constructive understanding coming from it. You and I may be quite close in this regard.

I'm terribly sorry that your SO seems to have been quite offended about this thread. Many members are still closeted, that's their choice & I respect them for it. Many SOs have turned tail and run, nothing we can do about that. Many SOs; yourself and Purple Puppy and more; have stayed, been supportive and honored their mates. Open communication may be key to many relationships but in some, the message may not be as welcomed as it has been in our lives. DADT, Not In My Sight or other limiting/restrictive relationships can be devastating to our side. What happened to,"For better or for worse, for richer and for poorer, sickness and in health..." vows? When she is "richer," I feel "poorer." When she feels "better," I feel "worse," when I am "sickest" is when she seems "healthy." I know we can't ever match, but I would like to share in the good times and the bad.

In closing, thank you for making us think about what is beyond our own pain. Thank you for being there for other GGs. Thank you for standing by your husband. Thank you for forcing a conversation in my marriage. And most importantly, thank you for calming yourself so we can all read your true message. I know I have grown reading this thread and my relationship has as well.

Big warm hugs,
-E

PS- newly bought nylons with a run has driven me to tears. So frustrating.

[ophelia]

I don't currently have a SO. But I do think we all make too big a deal about this.
If it is just about the "feminine" range of fabrics, styles, shoes, scents and coiffures then why is there such a big discussion about breast forms?

[Sierra_juliette]

Erika-

Thank you, sometimes it takes the painstaking task of reading and re-reading every post to stop and re-word my message to get it across properly.

I am a very passionate person when it comes to a lot of things- my biggest thing is the right for every person to be able to be happy!

I have lived a life that would fill enough happiness, grief, fear and wonder in 100 people and I wouldn't change a moment of it because it has taught me that every person I encounter has a past, a story and maybe a struggle. I am not in any position to do anything but offer my thoughts and opinions. I am lucky enough to have found my soul mate and that has brought me such enlightenment.

I knew before I ever laid eyes on him that he was a CDer, yet I think that knowing his soul, I would've gladly accepted it learning later.

I hope that communication, heated or not continues in your life, communication is key. I will be the first to admit that my marriage is not perfect, but dressing is NEVER the reason for that. We have much normal things like 'are you listening' and 'I TOLD you that' to argue about.
Dress or jeans he is always the same beautiful soul that never listens to me :-)

[DorothyElizabeth]

Erika-

Dress or jeans he is always the same beautiful soul that never listens to me :-)

In that regard, we males are like cats; not listening is in our job description. :)

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I'd like to add in the spirit of Erika Lynn's thoughtful post, that SJ is to be admired for sticking to this thread and to this forum.

I apologize to you Sierra for being overly critical of your original post, and you're right- I shouldn't try to second-guess people's motivations based just on a few words. However I was horrified at your SO's mis-reading of one or more of my comments- it goes to show how even when we think we are being clear, we may not be. I certainly did not suggest or think that he might be replicating your ex's abusive behaviour- why on earth would I think that? As you say, communication is key.

It's been fascinating to read the responses here and it certainly brings up strong feelings for many- thanks for keeping it going and I hope I have not completely alienated you.

Hugs, Nikki

[Jessicajane]

wow Sierra, you have touched a nerve or two.there is undoubted reason and credit to what you say, I'm just not sure that all SO will understand or even try to as you obviously have....

It is true that keeping things that are part of our actual blue print/ soul's, secret from our partners damages a relationship on some level, and undoubtedly causes pain on both sides when eventually outed, I came out to my partners in utter dread of the consequences, fearing that I would not only loose my partner but that in the hurt and possible split, my life could be exposed and blown apart....hell has no furry like a woman who is hurting....(ok so I have changed that but you get the picture)

There are certainly people out there who make no effort to share the secret in their lives, and that is for them to decide on, for me I didn't understand what or who I was , until I was eventually able to research on the internet when it was available ...and by then it was years after I had married and had children...through reading others stories realised I wasn't the only one and an utter freak of nature and society....I realised it wasn't going away and so I told her...and it went down like a lead balloon...we know our partners and most have a fair idea of how it will be received....we are still married, but it has taken years to find any level of acceptance...she has always loved me but is not really equipped to deal with and feel comfortable with my feminine side,(upbringing , character etc etc) she never has been and never will...I cant blame her I am not sure I would cope that well if she rocked up in a beard and wanted to be called Ralph..!!.. I am also well aware that had I told her in the beginning we would not have had 20+ years of marriage and 3 amazing children...what would I have said...I don't know what or who I am , why I do this or where its going but hey join me on the journey....there are women out there that would say yes , but for all I love my SO she's just note wired that way...has many many fantastic attributes, but just struggles with diversity in the marriage.

Fear keeps people in the closet, it makes them lie and it causes pain in a relationship....if everyone was as open minded as you there would be less of a reason to hide but sadly they are not.

[Sarasometimes]

I also want to thank you for sticking with this post.
SJ quote:
"I am a very passionate person when it comes to a lot of things- my biggest thing is the right for every person to be able to be happy!"

Considering the second half about being happy. Will that be achieved if I, in a DADT relationship force her to discuss a topic she doesn't wish to discuss? My wife, who I love dearly, very successfully uses avoidance as a coping tool in many aspects of her life. When I mention things like car repairs, the need for a new appliance, an issue with her mom she replies " Take care of it, I don't need to know the details. Only when she really needs to be involved does she ask questions. And that is usually after the dust has settled.

In the post above Jessica mentioned how her SO can't, do to her upbringing have an open mind about CDing but she has managed to co-exist with it. I wonder if Jessica has ever been told if her SO would have preferred to be left in the dark? Yes the opportunity to ask questions is important but you can't put the elephant back in the bag. If I forced a discussion than my wife needs to take a position on the issue. Right now she doesn't need to do that and that seems to be working quite well for us. I also think that children in a family need to be considered when deciding to have the talk. If a spouse cheats do the kids need to be in on that conversation? I don't think so.

Yes in a perfect world we can all depart with no wake left behind, but that is a rare occurrence. My father took his life, left a note and i just had to trust what he put there. I have a similar note that I hope is accepted in a similar fashion.

I wish you only the best in your future and may your nails never snag your pantyhose nor your lipstick end up on your teeth (I hate when that happens).

[BillieAnneJean]

Sierra_Julieete,
My SO was totally thrown when I first discovered CDing just over two years ago. At the time we had been together well over forty years. I have been devoted to her since I first saw her, and I can tell you when, where, and what she was wearing and the colors too. That life changing moment will forever be etched in my mind. I have and continue to be totally faithful and infatuated with her and her only.

Because of her curiosity she mined this forum for information to understand my CDing. What she found was every bad and extreme viewpoint imaginable and less frequently, some reasonable and considerate viewpoints. So she was convinced that I was going to transition, have a sex change, like men, or become gay, that she was inadequate, that I would do this 24/7, whatever. But none of those things applied to me and I kept telling her and showing her so by my behavior. For over two years my life had been a living hell whenever she went on this site and found something new that upset her. Regardless of how outlandish it was. Regardless of how OBVIOUSLY inapplicable it was. Regardless of how many time we had discussed iy=t before. Because for her it seemed like the information she was acquiring showed her that her world was collapsing. CDing became the primary conversation and I was not initiating it. I had advised her before to stay off this site and just LISTEN TO ME. But she was convinced that like some on this forum, I was living a separate secret life. Even though the very minute I discovered CDing I was completely open to her. I discovered it while looking for a glamor photoshoot for her, not me, because she needs to see how I see her. But the glamor photoshoot was guys, it looked like fun, I showed her immediately. I asked for her permission to try it. I kept no secrets.

But she mined this forum and things got way out of any proportion for what I was feeling. Things would boil over. I could see it coming a day or two ahead. Then the explosion. But I had not changed. I was still doting on her, still opening doors for her, still doing everything like before. Still madly in love with her, still finding only her as desirable.

Things got really bad. I advised her again and again to stay off this forum. It was a source of information that was not representative of me nor the general CDer population. I know because I am a facilitator for a CDing social group. Most of the CDers are not radical.

The problem is NOT this forum nor the posts. This forum is for the purpose of communicating. The problem was squarely with her mining the wrong data. But an emotional non scientific person may be inclined to find data that supports their theory instead of finding all of the data or finding data that disputes their theory. The problem is with the data acquisition methods, not that the data was available. If it was the data available then the whole internet would have to be shut down and all encyclopedias destroyed.

Then we went on a vacation. I did not bring up CDing even once. I asked her to put CDing behind us and just have fun. I asked her to not bring it up. For eleven days we did not talk about CDing. Everything was like before the CDing. Then when we got back home the CDing fight started again. She just reverted to her previous role. She just could not see it. I always told her that if she said to quit, I would immediately do so, no regrets. After all she is the most important person in the world. If you knew her you would understand why she totally captivates me. I told her to think back on the vacation. No fights. No CDing talk. No forum research. That was the real us. Like I had been telling her all along. It was, to her, a revelation. Now she understands and is starting to listen to ME. Her world immediately got sunny. Mine too. Even though the only thing that changed was her fears. Changed first to imagination and fear, then changed to listen and no longer be afraid. She always had everything she could want and imagine in me, she just needed to see it. And she could not see it through the info she got on this forum. She is listening to me.
This works because she knows that I will always be truthful to her, no secrets, no lies, totally open.

I swear that I will NEVER hurt her. I swear that I will always be devoted to her. I swear that she is the most important person in the world.

Your post was right on the mark. But the problem is not the data. What we need for first timer wives and SOs is to realize that all internet research should be coupled with frequent open and honest dialogue to determine which data applies and which data is inappropriate. And the wives and SOs need to evaluate things without emotion. They need to be objective. They need to deal with reality. Not imaginary fears. And the CDers need to be honest, not keeping secrets, and considerate of their wives and SOs.

I love you Suzy (my SO) and I will always be devoted to you and you only.