Another talk with my wife

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Yesterday after about 5 months since the first talk I felt I had to bring up the crossdressing again. She hasn't mentioned it and I haven't dressed in that time, other than my normal occasional (about 50% of the time) low key lingerie in bed, which she's always been used to. The subject came up because she grumbled a bit about finding my torso stubble scratchy, and that got us onto the wobbly subject of our infrequent sex life. I asked her if she no longer found me sexually attractive, and as always she put the blame on herself, mainly having to do with finding it hard to get wet since her (extremely difficult) menopause. She says she is still attracted and badly wants to make love, but still fears the discomfort. (She doesn't want to use lubricants.) I reassured her as much as I could, said again that sex didn't have to be penetrative, that I was still attracted to her. She worried that she had driven me to CD because of sexual frustration. That gave me the opportunity to repeat that for me CD isn't a fetish, isn't a sexual thing. I think she finds that hard to believe.

She also assumes the CD is connected to a wish to be gay, and she knows in the past I've had an amount of gay experience, so I reassured her thoroughly about that too. The problem really was that she didn't ask many questions, just listened, which left me in the position of burbling on, about this forum, about how so many CDers are happily married and hetero, about how few of us really understand what the compulsion is or how it arises. Again no questions, but she seemed calm and open, so I asked her if she would be willing to see some pics of me dressed, and she said yes. She said nothing as we looked at them, but nor did she cry or get upset.

When I spoke again about how I dislike my body hair and had been reading about laser removal, she got interested and asked about side effects, cost, etc. I know her well enough to suspect she was going to offer to contribute to that, but she didn't go that far- but it wouldn't surprise me if she starts researching it herself and perhaps does offer- she's an extremely generous person.

We talked again about how logistically hard it is here in our house to CD without a high risk of being spotted, and she said again that she wouldn't object in principle to my wearing a dress around the place, but that she did fear me being seen (there are some very conservative people near here). I'm in total agreement about this. She also reminded me that when we met I did have an amount of female clothing but that I had got rid of it (along with a huge amount of other stuff) when we moved house, and that she had been totally aware that CDing was more than a slight interest of mine. She actually remembered more about that clothing than I did!

So I'm not sure really where this latest talk has got us, or what she really thinks and feels about it, and today she goes away for 2 weeks, but I know she's going to be thinking about it- and I hope I haven't disturbed her too much.

I just wish she would ask more questions- I feel very awkward doing all the talking myself. It makes me feel like I'm just lumbering her with my baggage. She already feels bad enough about our sex life, and has problems with low self esteem (despite being hugely talented and capable in a great many ways) and these reasons contribute to my hesitation to bring up the subject.

Thanks for reading, any advice is very welcome.

xxNikki

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Nikki,
It sounds like we are in the same boat, slight differences in lifestyle, but a boat is a boat!
I really understand the "she don't ask" scenario. It must be difficult, to say the least, for our SO's even think about us wanting to dress in women's clothes, let alone ask us questions.
Knowing that you think she may have questions, and is afraid to ask, you need to ask her about her concerns, yes , pry a little,
what are her questions?
Oh Yeah! Then go buy some lube together!
Keep it fun!
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Hell-o you, she seems to reject the idea of lube because it's unnatural, even an organic product, ie it doesn't come from one of us. I can't push the subject without pressuring her, which then makes her feel even worse...and so nothing changes. She has told me repeatedly though that she feels bad about not making love- and for years she was a very passionate lover, so I believe her. But I don't want her to feel bad about it, it's kind of a no-win situation. You're right though- I'll be a little more confident in getting her to talk about the CDing- it's no good ignoring something so important.

[PretzelGirl]

Nikki, has she seen her Ob/Gyn and talked about her concerns? There is a lot they can do to help a post-menopausal women. CDing in the family or not, it is a good thing to pursue.

[AccidentalDresser]

I had an older friend who went through menopause and she was devastated and felt really alone and so not herself for a long time.
Her main line was always how she just didn't feel like a woman anymore. She came over to talk with me and my fiancé so often that her husband thought we were having an affair.
She ended up seeking medical advice and therapy and started on HRT but every step of the process was really hard for her and felt "unnatural" in her words.
As mere cross dressers we can never know the pain or horror of that feeling of losing yourself as a woman 'as it was described to me'

Perhaps although your need to talk to her about your cross dressing is important, and it is.
Perhaps now is the time to put your own needs on hold and just be there for her.
From your post I can tell you love and respect your wife very much but perhaps it is her that really needs to open up and talk through what she is feeling about herself and the changes she has gone through.
It sounds as though she is feeling guilt because she can't fulfill your needs, but you need to make her feel loved, wanted and adored so she feels assured that you still love her like you always have and that the cross dressing is your choice and not her fault.
My friends husband wasn't so patient and understanding and now he lives in a granny flat round the corner while his wife up and moved to Queensland and told him not to bother following her.
Worst part is he can't understand why.
Dressed or not we will never know or understand that part of a woman's life or how much it really affects them.

I could also be completely wrong and distracting her with your cross dressing may be just the thing to take her mind off it. But I doubt it.

A GG's opinions would be really helpful here

[PaulaQ]

Have you considered seeing a therapist who understands gender / sexuality as a couple? I think that could help you a lot.

For one thing - I don't think she understands your sexuality. My guess would be that you aren't gay at all, but rather that you are bisexual. There is nothing wrong with that, but it us terribly misunderstood, and bisexual men, in particular, are often heavily stigmatized. She needs to come to understand that this has nothing to do with her, it's simply who you are.

For another thing, she needs to understand that your CDing is about your identity, not a sex thing. And it absolutely isn't about her. She's taking blame for things that aren't her fault, and require no blame in the first place.

Lastly, it seems she could use some help understanding that menopause didn't make her any less of a woman, and needing some lubrication during sex is nothing to be ashamed of. LOTS of people need that.

It sounds like she really needs some help with her own issues. She might well need a little counseling separately from couple's counseling. I'm NOT suggesting there's anything wrong with her, but it sounds like she feels bad about a bunch of things that just aren't hers to feel bad about, and nobody should have to feel that way.

[Gypsy Sam]

Found this topic so reflective of my own life that others commentary has been very helpful. Try to be cognizant of my wife's feelings and often distracted by my own misplaced attention. Do mention often how pretty she is, and of course that compliment is quickly dismissed. "Make some one happy and you will be happy too" so the song goes, and of course I can always do better at that. Will strive to make a better effort to show my love by the things I do.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Thank you all.

Sue- one of her best friends is an ob/gyn, but whatever (private) advice was given doesn't seem to have altered anything, at least that I can tell. Menopause was something my wife found very hard to confide in me about, despite my witnessing the awful symptoms every night: chronic sweats and loss of sleep...for at least 2 years...it nearly killed her. She won't consider HRT.

Accidental: thank you for this advice, I will try again to get her to talk more about what menopause meant to her. Menopause ended about 4 years ago, started about 6 years ago, I've been putting my sexual needs on hold ever since it began- this hasn't been easy as you may imagine. Latterly the crossdressing has made her even shyer of sex. It's now down to maybe once a month, with me initiating it 95% of those times. I do love her very deeply, but I can be a clumsy so-and-so and although I try very hard to make her feel loved, I sometimes say stupid things on the spur of the moment- at 53 I still make mistakes I should have stopped making in my 30s. She seems to love me despite that!

Paula: I'm a believer in therapists, but she isn't. I think she fears the things that will inevitably come up, plus we live in France and for such a massively subtle subject, we both feel fluency is vital. I'd try it anyway, but she doesn't like the thought any more than she likes the thought of lubricants.

[Allsteamedup]

As a GG can I add a few thoughts?

It is so difficult to ask questions about cding in the beginning because beyond the obvious 'are you gay?' or 'do you want a sex change?' we have no idea why you dress.

If you feel that there are opinions or questions that you would like an answer to, you are in a much better position to steer the conversation in those directions.
For the same reason most GGs cannot discuss what is happening to you because we do not know enough about cding in the beginning. The main concerns for a partner would be how cding will affect your relationship, and how far you want to go.

The incident with the stubbly torso is a case in point. Stubble there can do damage as well as feeling uncomfortable to a partner. That was inconsiderate. Not only does it look awful it precludes intimate contact. Perhaps you could give this some thought.

[girlfriendpaola]

that's a tough topic. I have friends who come to our crossdressing studio with their wives and that's so great to see such couples. But one of my friends got divorced bc his wife found out.

[ReineD]

She seems to love me despite that!

Well, that's definitely something to hold onto! :)

It's hard to say what your wife thinks of all this Nikki, any one of us here would have to know her personally … she would actually have to be a very close friend that I talk to frequently before I could even come close to putting my finger on it.

But back to you, there seem to be two distinct issues that are bothering you:


... and that got us onto the wobbly subject of our infrequent sex life.

I just wish she would ask more questions- I feel very awkward doing all the talking myself.

One, is the decrease in your sex life. Two, is a desire that she might express some interest in the CDing. The two may or may not be related.

Issue one - the decrease in your sex life: while it is true that wives of men who dress for fetish can feel left out of the conversation in the bedroom, and this is ultimately a turn-off for them, I don't know if this is your situation. You don't give me the impression that you lose yourself in CDing fantasies while you and your wife are intimate. It could be that your wife has come to believe that you gain more sexual pleasure out of the CDing than being with her or that you would rather be with men, I don't know. It is a conversation that you need to have with HER. But, just as important, there are many, many things, both physical and psychological, that cause a lack of libido in women and that have nothing to do with the CDing. Here's a link to a good article about it from WebMD. I'm linking to page 2 (http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/loss-of-sexual-desire-in-women?page=2) because they list many of them there, but be sure to go back to page 1 to read the entire article. Do read the causes on page 2 slowly and carefully, and consider that they touch on only a few things in each of the points! Keep in mind, that the suggestion for couples or sex therapy will only work if your wife is as desirous are you are to have more frequent sex. Also, the article seems to be geared to treating this with medication, which may or may not be appealing to her. They do say that it is not the quantity of sex that matters, if once per month is enough for her and you are happy with this as well, then this would be your "normal". As couples age, it's a shame when one partner experiences a reduction in libido before the other one does. It's just so much easier when they both experience it at the same time.

Issue two - you would like her to be interested in the CDing: have you come right out and asked her? Have you told her that it is important for you to know that you have her blessing because you do not want to do anything that will displease her? You could also explain that you genuinely feel torn - you do not want to do anything that will jeopardize your relationship, but at the same time you cannot make this go away and you need to dress and do other things that make you feel feminine. You might ask if she has any suggestions on how you BOTH together can navigate the CDing while minimizing negative impacts on each of you. You might also ask if the CDing is a turn-off (even if she is not involved) and if she says yes, then I don't know what to suggest. I think it's important for you to communicate to her what you would like from her, and then allow her to tell you what she can and cannot do. And your conversation will simply have to take off from there.

[Victoria Demeanor]

Hi, I’m sorry we don’t live closer as I would love to go out for coffee and just talk. You are not alone. My wife has many medical conditions and has gone thru menopause and long story short it has been several year for us. Besides the dryness she as just lost her drive. I know it makes her feel bad, as frustrating as it is to me I have been understanding. One of my concerns with coming out to her is that she will think it has something to do with this and that she some how drove me to it. Yes I Know the gay thing will come up as her ex is in the closet, still is and when they were married he took it out on her verbally and physically. She is really a creative soul and it took me years to get her to appreciate herself. Of course too is the situation with my family history, but that’s a whole other subject.
Therapists… ya dealt with them two days a week from first grade till high school because they thought I was troubled. Turns out I just was just dyslexic. After finding out about my father I saw a few more, what a mistake. I have a very dim opinion of them, but that’s just me. I know there are good ones out there.
I wish I could give you good advice, but at least know that you have my support. I have a lot of baggage in my life, but it gives me an unjudgmental ear to listen.
Sorry I find lately that I ramble on.
Take care and know that I’m hear for you.
Victoria

[pamela7]

Hi Nikki,
My wife has been going through menopause these last 2 years, and she did go through a dry phase, but now she's wetter than ever - something I put down at least partly to us talking, expressing and enjoying the CD sexually. The more attractive I find her, the more it turns her on. Perhaps its just us, but I wonder if there are deep-rooted social belief systems at play, creating expectations of dryness and lowered sexual appetite.

Maybe also for late-bloomers such as myself, the CD is my "andropause"? I also went dry and dryer, often failing to ejaculate, and it worried me, but the CD-ing has brought all this back for me, and some (had a vasectomy about 9 years ago).

I've revealed this in the spirit of hope, that what one couple can do, so can others. It's so important that she feels desired, desirable, all the time: hugs/innuendo, however you do it, let her know SHE IS the object of your desires.

xxx Pamela
(ps am in England, not so far away :-))

[Katey888]

Hey Niks,

Sounds to me like you're doing a lot of the right stuff already: TALKING ABOUT IT... :)

I also suspect there are parallels with yourself and lots of other couples of a similar age with or without the CDing perspective... it probably accounts for a large number of golf club memberships... :eek: But seriously, this is a tough time to go through - the lessening of physical intimacy and desire is an, unfortunately, normal thing. Lucky are those who can continue on with an unimpeded sex life as they enter later years... :hugs:

There's good advice already - I think some couples counselling would be useful too, especially if you could separate out the CD aspect. I don't get the impression there's any value in wrapping that up in this for you, but that's just my amateur view. You clearly share a great deal of affection for each other and I can't see how your CDing is getting in the way of that, but perhaps if you were to just reduce your need over a short period of time you could demonstrate that it isn't connected? Just a thought...

Katey x

[AccidentalDresser]

Nikki I really hope things pick up for you both really soon. It sounds as though your wife is struggling a lot with her emotions and bottling up so much and it must be frustrating for you to see and experience.
You are a good husband and person to display such patience and understanding.
I hope you both find inner peace and happiness together again very soon.
Xxxx

[Marcelle]

Hi Nikki,

Silence from your wife does not necessarily mean anything bad. You have to admit this is an odd thing for some to comprehend and being reflective while trying to assimilate all the information could just be her way of processing. You are doing the right thing by talking about it and bringing it into context. My wife went through a similar phase early after my disclosure. Eventually, she began to ask questions and if I felt I need a response to a question, I steered the conversation toward question of interest and in a round about way we discussed it.

Keep at it and you will get there.

Hugs

Isha

[ChristinaK]

Hi Nikki,

Wow, it's like I could have written your post. My wife too didn't want HRT as she was afraid of health problems. After a few years she went to another doctor who convinced her. Now she gets wet, but her sex drive is not much better. It has really helped with the night sweats though.

My wife has told me that my CDing is disgusting and turns her cold. I too wear panties and nylon women's PJ's to bed, which she has allowed for years and also an occasional night town which she does not approve of but I try to hide. She used to be okay with it.

you said your wife is quiet when you talk about it. Well, my wife talks and won't let me. It affects how she thinks of me. I'm less of a man. She didn't like my anybody but wants it back because of the stubble, although I'm careful to shave before we're intimate. I am half way through laser on my chest and belly. So far, it has taken away quite a bit, but I'm afraid it won't work completely, we'll see. The dressing makes her very angry and has found my stash, which didn't help. I told her to not go into those areas any more. She says I can quit and it's my choice, which I refuse and so that must be because I don't love her enough.

I have tried to explain it's a lifelong thing, but she doesn't care. It's something I have control over and can just stop. She doesn't understand, it's beyond her boundaries and it makes her curious that I won't stop. I never dress in front of her except for the panties and PJ's, but the thought of me dressing discuss her. Her attitude on this has changed since menopause.

I don't know if your wife feels like mine but won't express it because she's too caring or considerate, but I think finding out her real feelings would be helpful. Since she knows about your prior gay activity, I feel confident that comes in to play as well.

There may be no good answer except to dress like a man around her and keep the rest from her. I wish that were not the case for myself, but at least she allows the panties and PJ's. I refuse to give up the ground I've won. But, it is at a cost. Now I almost always wear a robe around her and get naked for sex. It hurts me that she refuses to understand. Maybe in your wife's case she cannot understand, doesn't want to but also doesn't want to tell you that for fear of alienating you.

We make a lot of problems for ourselves, don't we? Even so, I will never stop as it is who I am and always has been. What I do by myself is nobodies concern but mine. I feel guilty that I have caused problems over CDing, but I am who I am. My wife is thoughtful and caring, but she cannot accept that part of me. I wouldn't like her doing it either, but would understand the need. In her case, she cannot because she has no basis from which to even start and doesn't want me to explain, which I'm not good at anyway.

If you have any luck, please let us know as it may be helpful for so many of us. Thank you for sharing, there are so many who are in the same boat.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Thank you all again. Quite apart from the very welcome advice, it just helps so much knowing that there are people all over the world who care and who have been through similar things.

[Dena]

I don't have any advice Nikki, my wife and I are in a similar situation. Though crossdressing isn't an issue, she is also post menopausal. She doesn't have a problem with using lube, we just don't seem to be getting it where it needs to go.

[StephanieinSecret]

In regards to your sex life, (or lack thereof)...why the aversion to lubricanys? Of all the things you have mentioned in your posts, that seems like an easy obstacle to overcome. Especially compared to CDing. If its a matter of UTI's or other physical reactions, there is a huge variety of products that can mitigate them. A few drops of lube seems like a walk in the park compared with trying to accommodate a CD spouse, and it has a lot or potential payoff for her as well.

[AngelaYVR]

Wife #1 would withhold sex in order to coerce changes (the changes always had to be performed by me, she was naturally perfect). The 'no lube' excuse sounds kind of ... fishy.

[alwayshave]

Wife #1 would withhold sex in order to coerce changes (the changes always had to be performed by me, she was naturally perfect). The 'no lube' excuse sounds kind of ... fishy.

Actually, my fiancee doesn't like lube, but she has a very high sex drive. So I don't find the no lube statement fishy.

[StephanieinSecret]

Actually, my fiancee doesn't like lube, but she has a very high sex drive. So I don't find the no lube statement fishy.

Could you elaborate? I'm rather curious. I wonder if the reason your wife and Nikki's dislike it are similar.

[AngelaYVR]

But is your fiancee going "the change"? If the only thing preventing la nookie is lubrication, why wouldn't you?

[kimdl93]

actually "lubes" can be kinda fun :)

[alwayshave]

Could you elaborate? I'm rather curious. I wonder if the reason your wife and Nikki's dislike it are similar.

She has gone through menopause and does not get as moist as she once did. But, she hates the feeling with lube. She says it does not feel as good and reduces her feeling. It just means the warm up period is longer to ensure everything goes off naturally.