Tom-boy

[MsVal]

The thread about shoveling snow got me thinking. But then my thoughts skidded on the ice and crashed into a snow bank.

There are genetic women who take great pride in being able to do anything a man can do. They are commonly identified as 'tom-boys' and can be found around tools, tractors, tradesmen, etc. Interestingly, tom-boy is a more endearing term than any term I've heard used to describe an effeminate man, but that's not what I am writing about.

Some of us identify, dress, and present as matrons, soccer moms, school teachers, entertainers, business women, college girls, and more. I wonder if anyone self identifies, dresses, and presents as a tom-boy? That is, a man emulating a tom-boy. Would that be easier than any of the above?

How would such a person present and speak as a tom-boy dressed up for ... perhaps a wedding?

Maybe I need to dig my thoughts out of this snow.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Kate Simmons]

I can pretty up the package but have always been a tom boy at heart. When growing up as a little boy, I secretly considered myself a tom-boy. :battingeyelashes::)

[phylis anne]

Hi Miss Val,
very interesting thought my style is tom boy that way I stay mostly unisex very blended boots and jeans girl , as it does not draw a lot of unwanted attention , also as I do not think anyone could make me over enough to be a toally passing girl but someday I will challenge someone to prove me wrong I agree with you on the varied amount of styles presented I was at an adult lingerie shop and the girl complimented me on my tomboy look I said at 60 I would look a little funny as a 20 something street girl she got a goo laugh out of that so to anwer your question for me at least it is easier to emulate a tomboy vs other styles , my dress when i go out is lady wranglers ,nice almost uni top underdress of course with very small enhancers gives me just the amount of projection w/o being dolly parton about it and you gotta look good to notice as the tops tend to be dark colored , boots or sport type shoes nice girly socks . pretty conservative and I am sure to many here quite boring as well but hey I am dressed and enjoying my self while I explore the new me further
hugs phylis anne

[JessMe]

This is a very interesting thread!!! ...most of us have a male identity, as well as a female persona... with varying degrees of what society calls "masculine" and "feminine" roles. ...In my daily life, presenting as expected, I'm your average country boy. I can do a little bit of everything (welding, hunting, livestock care, mechanically inclined, a reasonably successful fisherman, etc.), but that rarely translates to Jessica. Now, the question is; is that because I'm not allowed to mix the two, or is it that I've learned this stuff from a need rather than a want (this could be another thread in and of itself. )? That being said, my (very feminine) girlfriend is a country girl, and the daughter of a mechanic, and she can tell you the torque specifications for a small-block Ford by heart. ...who knows?

[Brenn]

Interesting question. I would say my "androgynous look" is kind of tom-boyish. Probably the best indicator though is that I started wearing mary-janes because of the product description of the Skechers Biker's Sightsee which reads: "Give your Mary Jane look a tomboy twist in our sporty sneaks. With hot and cool hues and a modern curved prong outsole, they're perfect for cruising town."

[Jilmac]

From all my years of experience working in the building trades, I am in my comfort zone around spinning blades, gears, pulleys, flywheels, and anything that could kill or maim the novice user. However when I'm challenged by keyboards, smart phones, and electronic devices with myriad remote controls, I'm totally out of my element. So I think I could easily present as a tom boy in any given situation.

[KlaireLarnia]

As someone who dresses daily in public but does not try to appear female - i.e I don't do or buy into this whole "En Femme" thing which a majority seem to - and having a teenage daughter who is a tom-boy through and through, I would say that whilst your idea is actually really smart and sensible the issues is that as men we cannot do the tom-boy thing. It's not about the clothes as such, it's more about the initial public perception and the basic definition of a tom-boy.

When I look at myself I see a man: Male face, attitude, likes/dislikes, there is a part of me which I consider female and half of my Gemini personality. I choose to wear female clothes, this offers the outward image a feminine touch. I don't do the "girly" stuff. So no dresses, skirts, florals or anything "Sexy" with the exception of a few bits of my nightwear. As I write this I am in female jeans, t-shirt and hooded sweat-top. I don't wear make-up, play with dolls or use female language or tones. What do people see: A man in female clothes and they are right.

When I look at my daughter I see a teenage girl: She looks like, sounds, is built like one and has the long hair you would expect of many teenage girls. The difference is she does not wear dresses, skirts are a school uniform thing only (i.e she is forced to wear them then but will not wear them otherwise), she does not use or has shown an interest in make-up, she doesn't wear florals, satin or items which show off her body/shape. She would rather spend all day in furry pyjamas or jeans/t-shirt/sweat-top/thick jumpers. She's doesn't play with dolls but sits on her Wii/Tablet playing action RPG's and beat-em ups. She hates clothes shopping and would happily climb every tree in a forest rather than walk through it. She does not like holding hands with anyone. She is smart, intelligent, funny and chilled. She is a good friend. What do people see - A Tom-boy and they are right.


The problem is the starting point. To be a tom-boy you need to be a girl (The basic definition is: A tomboy is a girl who exhibits characteristics or behaviours considered typical of a boy and it has been in use well over 200 years.)

They are girls exhibiting male characteristics. We cannot therefore be tom-boys because we are the opposite - men exhibiting female characteristics/desires. You can put us in (and we have frequently been seen out) in similar clothes and no one - and I mean no-one thinks we are two tom-boys. Her, yes - me, no. But at the of the day what you can do is use the Tom-boy style and looks to work for you and give you looks/items you CAN wear in daily life out in public. Cross dressing is not all about appearing or becoming female. It is about the wearing of female clothes. The tom-boy can be a perfect example of where we can learn to do just that.

There is nothing wrong with this just got to learn how to use it to your advantage.

That's my 2 pence worth.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Hi MsVal, I recently watched a fascinating program on the subject of drag kings. If you want to dig deeper into this whole tomboy subject, I'd highly recommend watching it. It's called Venus Boys, I watched it on Netflix.

[Adriana Moretti]

There is nothing wrong with this just got to learn how to use it to your advantage.

.
yup i agree Klaire put it perfectly.....i consider myself a tomboy....or is it tomgirl??? .....im ok with that....im a girly guy.....this is kinda why i hardly wear high heels or skirts or dresses in public......to me its the key to walking out the front door, and parking my butt on a bar stool in a sports bar and NOBODY says a word. You cant tell whats goin on...you know somethings up.....but its not threatening or uncomfortable in anyway to me & others. I will only get all super girly at a cd event when most girls overdose on sequins and glitter anyway......

[Beverley Sims]

Val I like your stance on the matter and it sounds eminently suitable.
I could emulate the tomboy principle years ago and look attractive into the bargain.

[mechamoose]

My daughter is now 29+ (I won't tell, she certainly won't)

My girl has always been a 'force of nature'. She'd climb trees, she'd go all 'spider monkey' on someone who threatened a friend. She had flirtations with being an emotional wreck in her teens (girl in breeding age, guy in smooth-talking age) , and I was lucky enough to be able to latch on to her logical side and teach her "Who wants it?" "Why do they want it?" "What does that do for you?"

I am the proud parent of a FIERCE and STRONG girl. She has successfully scared off all the 'weak' males who decided they were interested in her, because she wasn't going to take any of their crap.

She still has ankle-length hair (which she has named 'George'.. as it has a mind of its own and will attack people it doesn't like), is curvy as hell and isn't afraid to show that off. She is a STRONG WOMAN, who I'm delighted to be able to claim as my daughter.

So, while she exhibits some 'male' traits, I challenge the idea that they are 'male' things. I think they are more 'confident person' things.

- MM

[MsVal]

I disagree with the belief that a TG male cannot self-identify as and present as a tom-boy. It may be more common than I think it may be. Which is easier to pull off, greater personal knowledge and experience in the masculine world or feminine world? Blending seems to be easier. The tricky part would seem to be establishing a feminine identity when it is so very close to a masculine identity. I suppose it would be just a tiny bit on the feminine side of androgynous.

Sooo... How would you execute a tom-boy presentation? What are the distinctions between a tom-boy and a man emulating a tom-boy? I can think of obvious things like appearance (hair, clothing, curves) and voice. What is the difference in less obvious things like attitude or gestures? (I can't seem to shake the vision of Donna Douglas as Daisy-Mae Clampett.)

MM - I am sure that your daughter is all that you say she is and more. You are right to be proud.

Best wishes
MsVal

[jessicabf]

Tom-boy is society's way of accepting GG's that identify with a more masculine self. It is proof that the public has less issue with a GG being more male-like in life's choices, while still able to be decidedly feminine. Jeans and t-shirt to play ball, but then a dress and perfume for a date. It is an interesting study on the gender dynamics of our cultures. To be strong and physically assertive - even self-reliant - is considered positive in society.

From my perspective, the root of the issue is a failure to correctly define and teach what it means to be a man or woman. Being a bully, lazy, sarcastic, overly aggressive, uncaring about hygiene and physical presentation are not (or should not) be a definition of 'male'. At the same time, being utterly submissive, weak and frail, overly self-absorbed in appearance, filled with emotional torrents are not (or should not) be a definition of 'female'. I argue that positive traits of compassion, self-control, confidence, a healthy concern for one's hygiene and appearance, a desire to be 'desired' by others, hard working, protective of those who cannot protect themselves, etc... theses could/should be applied to both male and female.

I wonder if the recent creation of the term 'metro-sexual' is the modern term for a tom-boy equivalent for a guy?

Here's the first time the term was used:

"Metrosexual man, the single young man with a high disposable income, living or working in the city (because that’s where all the best shops are), is perhaps the most promising consumer market of the decade. In the Eighties he was only to be found inside fashion magazines such as GQ. In the Nineties, he’s everywhere and he’s going shopping."

For a CD'er who wants to present as a tom-boy, I would guess that you would first go completely fem in under-layers and clothing. Then make key changes in altering the outfit 'presentation' to remove a few fem items with more masculine ones. Mind you the items can still be entirely from the women's section of the store. e.g. replace the blouse with a sweat shirt. See if you can pull off a pony-tail. Only use the minimal amount of makeup.Go for tennis shoes instead of pumps. When talking to my SO (she is a tom-boy) we agreed that tom-boys are often more concerned with comfort than looks.

Wow... so that's my overthinking of the topic. LOL.

[Jaymees22]

This whole concept seems confusing to me. The main thrust of MTF dressing is to appear feminine. If I need to act and look like a man I might as well just present as myself. Hugs Jaymee

[KlaireLarnia]

This whole concept seems confusing to me. The main thrust of MTF dressing is to appear feminine.

Some, including me would disagree, but that is a discussion for another topic.