Therapy and transition and SOs

[carri]

Hey everyone, I'm new and I could use some advice, I recently started going to therapy after the 1st visit with my SO she got to hear the therapist say that I was transgender, I have been dressing for as long as I can remember, and have always wanted more, I came out to my fiancee about 5mths ago, and she has been very supportive, I most recently told her that I would like to transition, and she has been supportive in that as well, but she is still nervous that I will become a completely different person once I start HRT. So, I would like some advice about getting the letter and how your HRT has effected you along with how long you have been on it. If you have a SO do you have any advice I could pass along to help my fiancee in this journey with me, she has planned to attend therapy with me when she is able so that she can try and gain a greater understanding but anything else would be very helpful

I think if she could see some of the experiences that others have had she would feel more at ease with it all.

Thanks !!!

[I Am Paula]

Welcome Carri,
Glad you came along. It sounds like you're doing well with you SO so far. I have been married 19 years, and transitioned right in front of her. Without the melodrama, I will warn you, you're in for a tough ride. There are more like us, who stayed together, but none will tell you it was easy in any way- sexually, socially, and the sense of loss for their spouse, these are HUGE obstacles.

Sexually- My wife and I do not sleep together. Sex has been off the table for a long time. My wife likes me, but finds the idea of sleeping with me repulsive. It simply isn't a sexual relationship anymore, and that works for us. We hold hands in public, and kiss each other good night. Since my transition, my wife has never seen me naked.

Socially- My wife's biggest concern was her parents (Mom since deceased). They had never left the farm, and were, face it, simple folk. I'm sure their only exposure to gender variance was Benny Hill in a dress. Even before transition, my FIL referred to me as 'the Homo'. Cute. Not being a devout church goer, my wife did have some connection to it. Even tho they said I was welcome in their parish, she dropped out. With me as a member, or not, she knew there would be talk. During transition, a few times we ran into her friends, in the mall for instance, and she asked me to just keep walking, while she had a short chat. She has accepted, slowly, being referred to as being in a same sex marriage, but fumes when someone calls it a gay marriage.

The sense of loss- I can't speak for her in any depth here, but I know she feels she lost me along the way. She married Paul, and Paul is gone. Paula is the same person, but I don't think she'll ever think that. Sometimes she starts a sentence, 'Remember when you....oh, yeah....'

These are just notes, in no particular order. I am fully Paula now, legally, and socially, and a lot of these issues have worked themselves out, even the father in law tolerates me now. Our marriage works, but on a completely different and new level. There is a mutual love, and it's difficult to describe, cause it's so different than when we were boy and girl.

It is worth the trouble and hardship to at least try to stay together. Good luck.

[Rogina B]

Well,you are trying to make it work with a "fiancee"....Possibly a far less encumbered relationship than many had here.It is a great thing that she wishes to learn all about you and it..

[PretzelGirl]

Carri, you have thrown enough thoughts in here that it absolutely will be an individual experience. I think HRT changes all of us. That is the goal, isn't it? But it doesn't necessarily change the core person you are. If anything, I think many of us get more comfortable with our new selves (or real selves depending on your view) that our personalities shine even more.

I think the therapy is a good thing. Then you can have someone help to mediate the thoughts. My wife has not only stayed with me, but has embraced it totally. We are together and basically have a complete same sex marriage now. But I told her about 12-13 years ago and we have been growing together within a set of mutually agreed upon boundaries all the way up to my transition completing in October. At one point, a couple of years ago, she told me to stop playing around and go full-time and have surgery. The problem? I hadn't openly decided I was transitioning at that point. So I would say she was caught up at that point.

You probably aren't in a position where you want to spend 12 years getting there. So the tough part is how fast she gets the information and changes consumed and how she adjusts to all those thoughts. Is she ready to be viewed as a lesbian? Is she interested in going through the complete journey with you? Is she ready to turn her sex life into same sex attraction?

Obviously this isn't an easy road. But you two are starting off in a good path. I would just keep emphasizing communications and the rest are things that can be worked on.

[KellyJameson]

You will become a completely different person but than again you won't. It depends on what you mean.

What are her concerns pertaining to you "becoming a completely different person" ?

What does she mean by that ? What does she imagine transitioning means "for her" and for her as "both of you together" ?

[Kimberly Kael]

You've asked some great questions that don't have brief answers. Hopefully this is the start of a meaningful conversation for you and you SO as you explore a variety of possible answers and how they'll affect your relationship.

HRT is a tricky subject. There are the simple, pat answers but the reality is that different people have dramatically different outcomes. What's predictable about it? You'll have some reduction in body hair. Some breast tissue growth. Chances are you'll be more emotional. You'll probably smell different to her due to a change in your personal pheromone output, which is something I don't see a lot of people talk about. What's unpredictable? You may see some fat redistribution or a change in metabolism, or you may not. You may find you no longer have much of a sex drive or capability to sustain an erection. Your emotional reactions may be fairly predictable, or they may come and go without warning. I've been on HRT for about three years (I started two years after my social transition, which is definitely a little unusual.) I found my need for sex has all but vanished but my desire and ability have only diminished modestly.

What was it like for my SO? She may not find it especially reassuring that it started out terrifying, but over time she has eased into our new life and most of her fears haven't been realized. It's pretty rare that we get a negative reaction from anyone in public. Some of the things we've enjoyed that she saw as unthinkable post-transition have proved to be easy: spa visits while on vacation, golf vacations where we're paired with random strangers, and so forth. The list of countries we might conceivably want to travel to has narrowed considerably, and indeed there are places in this country that would be a unpredictable challenge, but fortunately we're able to live in a place that is remarkably accepting. The things that seem to bother her these days? She has occasional periods of sadness over the loss of the future together she expected. We're no longer that cute traditional couple that everyone oohs and ahhs over. We're now two women that people are surprised to find are in a relationship. So we don't get seated at the romantic table in a restaurant unless we make a point of asking. Hotels assume we want separate beds, etc. A thousand and one minor annoyances that add up and are all too familiar to the lesbian and gay community. She also has to face the fact that she's essentially closeted herself now: she interfaces as heterosexual, not as a lesbian, but that's somewhat buried in the complexities of our relationship.

[Angela Campbell]

I can't say I am a different person, because the person I was before was an act. I didn't know who I was then. Have I changed? I am me now. Don't really know who I was before.

[Sandra]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in :)

I am a wife of a post-op ts and one thing I will say is make sure that you talk to your fiancee, keep her in the loop at each stage. As for you changing everyone is different and all I can say is that Nigella didn't really change the hrt made her more laid back and more relaxed. It is good that she is coming with you to the therapy sessions when she can, just be prepared for a lot of questions afterwards and give her time to digest things.

[arbon]

Transition changed a lot in regards to the relationship I have with me wife. It took all intimacy out of the equation, she lost her husband. a lot of time she is okay with who I am today, a sometimes not so much. It was stressful for her on many levels as I jumped from one step in transition to the next and the whole time her hoping it would be as far as I would go - but I just kept going. Its been a heartbreaking journey for her.

[Suzanne F]

I will begin HRT next month. My wife has been supportive and realizes I have no choice but to transition. Most of her fears have not materialized as far as our children or friends support and love. I live as a woman except for the days I have to be in front of customers or appear at the company I represent. We have moments of complete love and acceptance that are so beautiful! However, I know she grieves as she loses a little more of Brent each day. This is by far the hardest thing I have ever done. I hate that she has to hurt. I have had to realize I cannot control her or anyone else's reaction to me being me.

Suzanne

[carri]

I want to thank you all for your insight and advice. I am currently continuing therapy and educating myself as much as I can about the decisions that are ahead of me. My fiancée and I are communicating about everything very openly. She has told me that before I move ahead with anything that will be more permanent she needs more time to process it all and to get more comfortable with everything. Also we both want to try and have a child the old fashioned way so I think that will give us both an opportunity to prepare for the changes. She has some health issues that may prevent that so we have already begun to research banking for IVF. Again thank you for all the helpful input and support. I look forward to getting to know you all better along this journey.

[Barbara Ella]

Carri, you are proceeding in the correct way. Over the three and a half years my wife and I have dealt with this (starting from zero at age 65) there have been immense ups and downs in her support, and you should expect some of these. It is just so very important that you continue talking and educating your fiance. We have been married 44 years, and my wife realized that neither of us was going anywhere when this started. We talked, and she learned, and sought out information, and company of other TG/TS girls to learn as much as possible. She supported my HRT just over 2.5 years ago, and recommended I start electrolysis (large volume full facial removal) last September. Will she become accepting to the point where other issues can be addressed, I don't know, but all things are open for discussion within her boundaries. we may have to move.

there have been body changes. We have not been intimate for many years due to medications, but she has become much less cuddly, although we hold hands in public, and kiss. She is adamant that she is not a lesbian, in spite of my desires. You will not become a different person. You will become much more at ease with yourself, which will make her more comfortable knowing you are finding peace.

Keep talking, and don't rush anything. At my age (68) I don't have a long time available, but that just means that some things might not get done. I am fine with that as long as i keep moving forward, and i hope you can find happiness in moving forward.

Barbara

[PaulaQ]

Carri - whether you'll be a completely different person or not depends on the perspective of the observer.

People who didn't know me look at old photos of me usually without recognition. Am I a completely different person? Seems so from their perspective.

To a lot of people who did know me, I am very different seeming because I hid who I was, so they never really knew me well to begin with. My activities and pastimes are different now - I have no interest in lots of stuff that I used to be fascinated by. I faked my way through a lot of stuff. I still love classical music though.

My sister tells me I am exactly the same person she's always known, and we've always been quite close.

I certainly feel like a totally different person.

The Meyers-Briggs Personality assessment notes some changes in my personality - before transition, I was INTP. 16 months into transition, I scored ENFP - I'm more extroverted now than before, and deal with things more from a perspective of feelings rather than thoughts - although of course I still think plenty about things.

So I guess in some ways I'm the same, in other ways totally different.

[LeaP]

...It took all intimacy out of the equation, she lost her husband. a lot of time she is okay with who I am today, a sometimes not so much. It was stressful for her on many levels as I jumped from one step in transition to the next and the whole time her hoping it would be as far as I would go - but I just kept going. Its been a heartbreaking journey for her.

:yt:

In spades ... I could have written that, word-for-word.

[Rogina B]

And along with that goes "How do you see and love me ? As a friend?"... There is no "good answer"...

[PretzelGirl]

Why isn't there a good answer Rogina? My wife and I basically have a normal, same-sex marriage. What isn't good about that? I know it is far from common, but let's not bury possibilities before we have tried to keep things the way we want them. There is the old axiom, love is worth fighting for.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

so if you fight hard enough your love will win out??

guess a lot of us didn't fight hard enough..

[PretzelGirl]

I'm sorry Kaitlyn. I didn't mean it that way. It was in reference to there being no good answer. There is a good answer. You try and some can make it. The toll is heavy, no doubt. But it shouldn't just be waved off as a loss before trying.

[Rogina B]

Not saying that Sue...The comment was brought about because of the changing dynamics of a marriage...Of course you want her...as a friend... It is just not the same,for her or you[you means all]..No point in being delusional..It is no longer the same marriage.

[becky77]

The odds are that it won't work, simply because you will change, a lot. And you won't be that same person anymore, so on average most wives even the supportive ones can't handle it.
For those that are supportive it usually comes down to the fact that they married a man, therefore they are Hetrosexual, you are becoming a woman and that's not how they are wired. However as Sue said and rightly so, there are lot's of cases of those that do come through and in some cases their love is stronger. You have to remember that some of us can't hide that female core and it is this that they have fallen for in the first place.
If you hid this so well that you pretended to be Mr macho and sportsfan type, compensating so much that you are the total opposite to that person inside, your marriage is never going to survive.
The bigger the lie you have led in your life the harder it is for anyone, wife, friend, sibling to be able to cope with the change.

It can work, however it usually doesn't hence the warnings.

I am still with my wife, she has always known about me (Felt I was female etc) since before we got married and that was 17 years ago. She is the strong one and likes feminine looking men and has supported me throughout (It hasn't been easy for her at all). I have told her the truth throughout and yet as I have moved on, that truth has changed. I kept moving moving the goal posts, not intentially it's just how it is, you think you know yourself only to discover something else. After therapy I finally accepted who I was and started transition to be a woman (not a feminine man). We now live as best friends but the future is uncertain, I think we will always be in each others lives but our marriage is effectively over.

[PretzelGirl]

Rogina, marriages evolve all the time, even if it is just from getting older. So no delusion there. But your inference is that it will change to just being friends. I have multiple friends in my area that prove that isn't true. My wife is my best friend. My wife is my lover. My wife jumped right out there and said she was lesbian because she loved me. I know it is rare, but as I said about those in my area, it isn't just us. So to us, it is the same marriage. We love each other. We spend time enjoying each other's company. We love our kids. We love our grandchildren. What is different? Our outward projection of our type of marriage being same sex. That's it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

That was kind of my point Sue. you mention trying....Trying what exactly???
Your wife is sexually into it. It has nothing to do with love or trying.
Your implication that you can love your way out or that a wife can work to change her sexuality is simply not the way it works.

Those of us that got divorced love our kids, and some of us continue to love each other but somehow found a way to acknowledge the reality of the transsexual condition and move on with our lives. I am not bitter or even out of love... my ex is the beneficiary of my will...i trust her totally... we share custody and spend social time together even traveling together.. is this an attractive possibility to a fiance?? its up to her but it's got nothing to do with try.

you are much older...the situation you found yourself in is light years away from Cari's.

Surely if you are not transitioning then there is a possible negotiation as to all the rules around names and presentation, but that's a whole different ballgame than transitioning
Surely if you are not in need of surgery that is something that a wife could consider..perhaps the wife is just not that interested in sexuality anymore, or is comfortable with the "arrangement" ..


Cari's on the ground problem is that its very early in the game..it is not a long term marriage that can evolve.
...she is not fully decided about what to do... she would "like to transition", her fiance is getting this put on her and is "trying to be supportive"... i've heard this one before..

anything is possible....staying honest and positive and taking it day by day is in order but you can't really believe or know that today's support will follow through as things change...

Trying to fight gender dysphoria and trapping yourself in a marriage that does not allow for your true gender identity is a recipe for disaster for both people. If somebody would like to transition but would prefer to stay or get married they are going to have a to take a flyer on whether their GD gets worse or not...there is no way to know (unless the person knows they are really just daydreaming about it..and even then things change...that's what i thought i was doing..it was just a pipe dream)
and the fiance is going to have to gamble too. she has to gamble that her feelings won't completely change as the changes happen...

[Jorja]

I am sure statistics are not kept on how many mtf marriages and relationships last or not. If they were, I am sure you would find the percentage that fail rather high. Does this mean that a couple should not try? NO! As the OP is early on in their transition, I think this is something they and their spouse/SO should be talking about. If both agree to try, then more power to you.

[LeaP]

Maybe it's my mood and maybe I'm projecting. But it strikes me how irrelevant all of the chat and advice is on this topic. Harking back to another thread, there is a paradox here. There is no way I would ever advise someone not to anticipate, not to plan. But I would also tell you that you cannot anticipate more than a fraction of the scenarios, emotions, priorities, or changes in your thinking and perceptions that will occur. Moreover, you may not even be aware of them. You will still perceive yourself as yourself (more so, in fact), and that is that. What that actually is and how it comes across to everyone else is quite another thing.

I most often describe my own situation as a train wreck. It's apt. A normal life runs on a more or less well-regulated system of tracks. You may switch to another set. You may go through switching yards. You may incur delays. You may pick up some cars or discard some. Sometimes there is a lot of baggage, sometimes less. But the train continues to run, one way or another. Past youth, you are running quite a long train. Everything is connected. And it's good – as long as you keep that damn train on the tracks! Because the minute you go off, you are going to find out just how connected things are. You will also discover the consequences of deferred maintenance, decisions made long ago about what you put together in what order and why loose ends, so to speak, that didn't matter much as long as things were running smoothly now matter a great deal. It doesn't matter much whether you are an engineer or the conductor. You are about to find out just how much you rely on the other to do and be all the things that you never even had to think about, that you actually don't even know about.

In short, when the train goes off the rails, you have no idea what is going to happen. Every once in a while, there are derailments with no damage. More often than you think, actually. Most of them happen in minor ways at low speeds. Little bumps when getting started, so to speak. You may be tempted to compare this to the the start of a relationship. That would be a mistake. Because your intention is not to run on a well regulated track (despite what you think). The truth is that you are already off the tracks and intend to run off the tracks from this point forward. Believe it or not, this is how the first trains were designed to run! Early 19th century engineers and designers found out very quickly how unstable trains are without an unyielding and predictable running surface. And so will you.

I was running a pretty ponderous train. Lots of cars. Lots of baggage. The wreck scene is dramatic. Not as spectacular as some others, but still pretty gruesome. Is that all bad? Nope. But none of the good stuff pertains much to relationships. And there's no cosmic balance scale that makes everything even out and everyone happy, either.

Were I in your position, I would probably be doing exactly what you're doing. I'm almost sure of that. I am just as sure that it would be a much better idea to hold off on relationships until things (e.g., transition) were settled and well underway.

I'm coming up on three years on hormones.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The analogy is apt.
there is actually no good answer...trying doesn't come into play...we all try. Most of us try VERY hard.

Transsexuals cannot predict or control how bad it(it being the GD) is going to get...it is an existential crisis that you either have or you don't...and not having it now is no guarantee of the future (assuming you are ts)
fiances and wives cannot predict how they will feel when REALITY sets in..

Promises regarding gender are a high risk area for transsexuals..this is just the way it is.

As you evaluate the posts and decide what to do,.take in the mix of messages and note how lopsided the answers are especially from people that have fully transitioned...do the math..

that why
.....stay honest(especially with yourself as trite as that sounds), stay positive as best you can, and stay living day by day...

[LeaP]

I think I'll chime in again with a few comments from a long call I just had. One bit of the conversation related to the comment Kaitlyn just made about this not being about trying. Nor is it about results. You will often hear that transition solves one problem (GD) even if, or as it creates others. That phrase implies a reasoned decision. The truth is usually something closer to being driven to taking transition steps. The resulting life may not be daisies and unicorns. With that, you often get the chipper rejoinder that "well, at least it's yours!" To which I say "so F'in what." Both the availability of a rational solution as well as ownership of the result are irrelevant to the action.

Term of the day, from the same phone call … "Radioactive Tranny Leper". Which turns out to be convenient shorthand to describe the impact of being trans on a relationship.

[PretzelGirl]

I guess I am either misreading something or I am replying in a way that is open to misinterpretation. There is a comment above that says that marriage can't survive and that is that and all you can be left with is a friendship. I know everyone here tries, but someone coming into this can take that above comment as it isn't worth any effort. I know the damage is huge and the odds are against it. But I don't think the few that survive would have survived without all of us trying. To compare to a sport, a baseball player can't bat .010 if they are not standing up at the plate 100% of the time.


that why
.....stay honest(especially with yourself as trite as that sounds), stay positive as best you can, and stay living day by day...

This is absolutely the way I look at it. I think in the long haul, a positive outlook gives you better odds of not losing something during transition, even if slight difference. I also believe the inverse. If you think something you are doing won't succeed, it won't.

Carri, I am the eternal optimist and it has served me well. I wish you the best with no negative outcomes. I just believe that should be our goal but while completely being prepared for each and every thing to go south on us so we are ready to deal with them.

[Aprilrain]

I think in the long haul, a positive outlook gives you better odds of not losing something during transition, even if slight difference. I also believe the inverse. If you think something you are doing won't succeed, it won't.

This has not been my experience in transition or in life. My experience has been that if you do the work you will get the result. Wether or not one is a Polly Anna or a grouch is immaterial I'm definitely a pesimist and it has never stopped me from achieving my goals. The truth is much of life is beyond our control so our attitude towards it is irrelevant. I do agree that being able to put a positive spin on any situation can make life a little more palatable... At least it seems like it would, I wouldn't personally know.

....that being said....
Go for it! The worst that can happen is no worse than has happened to some trans person and his or her partner before. It might be an epic fail (likely) or
it could be a resounding success (unlikely)
More than likely it will be something in between.

I'm different than a lot of people here, I couldn't get away from my wife fast enough! If they had drive through divorces I would have been there the day I walked out the door. I don't hate my ex we get along pretty well but I would not want to be married to her again. That bit was a mistake.

[Jessika]

HRT thus far has not changed my personality at all. I have always looked at it like this. My personality and who I am at my core has always been female. It's just my outward appearance that does not match. HRT is just helping to correct that. The only real change is that I am a LOT calmer than I used to be. I thought it would be more drastic but nope.

[tara.emily]

Unfortunately for me, when I came out to my SO, she first said that she would support me, then after a week or two she said that we had to keep it secret and shortly after that we broke up. For her, she said that she needs to have a man in her life, not a girlfriend.

On the good side of it, we are still in contact and now she really does give me support.

[LeaP]

One of the most common things heard from trans people is that we have not changed. I have said that myself – a lot!

It is also very common to hear from those close to us how much we have changed. I have heard that – a lot!

We may be the worst at assessing this sort of relational change. And that is what it is, really, not the kind of fundamental change that might be reflected in our self perception. Think of it akin to contextual optical illusions. In the right context, it is literally impossible to discern certain luminance changes, for example. And it is effectively just as impossible for people to see us as unchanged from a personal standpoint when there is so much other change going on with us. This perceptual shift is something that arises from other causes, too. The internal feelings evoked range widely from delight to alienation. I have more or less concluded that maintaining that I am the same person just doesn't matter.

[DebbieL]

My wife knew I was transgender even before we met, so she has always been a bit more supportive. When I told her that I needed to transition, she balked a bit, especially when I started HRT. The most important thing is to keep the lines of communication open, and try to be the best person you can be. The Spiro will lower your testosterone levels which makes you more calm and have less of a temper. The E will make you a bit more emotional and prone to cry. The most important thing is to communicate about why you are crying. If you are crying because you happy, make sure she knows it. If you are crying because you are inspired, say so. If you are crying because you are sad or miss a loved one who has passed, say so.

No doubt, your wife has already discovered how much effort it took for you to maintain your male mask. You probably had lots of strategies to avoid letting Carri show. My strategies included being a "know it all" with "factoid dumps" to avoid conversations about uncomfortable topics. I was really nice, and many people misread that as being gay. I was gay, I was a lesbian.

Throughout my transition, my wife has come with me to most of my therapy sessions, and during the week, we can freely talk about what we like, what's a concern, our fears, and our successes.

Most often, your spouse's concerns will fall into a few groups

1 - what will others think
2 - will she love me?
3 - will she leave me?

For you, coming out is unavoidable. You need to confront this several times a day during early transition. Whether you go "toe in the water", gradually getting more and more feminine until you are full time female, or "dive into the deep end", going for fully feminine as soon as you can arrange the logistics, there are people who have questions, who make incorrect assumptions, or just have some fears. With practice, you get really good at the "elevator speech", explaining that you have always been more girl than boy, and finally decided to transition so you could be yourself. You need to manage these same issues with her friends and family. They may joke, but if you can realize that their humor is their way of dealing with fear, you can show compassion for that fear and let them ask their questions and eliminate most of those fears. Once they get past the initial shock, they will probably like Carri better than they liked the boy. Make sure that you are more likable as well. Being nicer, more patient, and supportive are all things women naturally tend to do. Being argumentative, angry, and violent are male traits. People who see you expressing the best parts of being a woman, and yet also showing courage, integrity, honesty, authenticity, and emotional strength are going to see your change as something wonderful.

Make sure that you tell your wife how beautiful she is, how much you love her, WHY you love her, thank her for every wonderful thing she does for you, and listen to her requests like they are her ways of saying "this is how I want you to say 'I love you'". It might be doing some chores she hates, going shopping with her and letting her pick out clothes for you, or letting her coach you. She needs to know that even though you may not be able to have an erection, you desire to have her in your life is not waning. You may also need to explore new forms of intimacy together. Let her guide you in what she wants to explore. Lee (my wife) has come up with some ideas that scared the dickens out of me at first, but turned out to be wonderful for both of us. Of course now, we can both have dozens of orgasms, and we have a better sex life without the teeny weeny peeny than with. More importantly, we have found new ways to express intimacy - a kiss on the neck, a scratch along the bra line, or just cuddling up with her holding me, can be wonderful experiences for both of us. She also likes being in charge of it, and loves that she doesn't have to worry about bruising my fragile male ego. As a result, she has caused wonderful things in both our lives, including wonderful vacations, even buying a beautiful house.

The fear that you might leave comes from the mistaken assumption that now that you are becoming more of a woman, you might want a man. Men will be nicer to you. They will hold the doors, they will move your chair, they will help you with your bags. But at the same time, even though this may make them a bit more attractive, you fell in love with you wife for a lot of reasons, and she fell in love with you for a lot of reasons. The one concern she might have is whether she wants to not have the ability to have a man. Lee and I addressed that by figuring out what she wanted in a man and looking for ways to provide that, whether it was hiring a handy-man or new toys in the bedroom. I tell Lee "honey, your are more than man enough, AND more than woman enough, for me". Now we can check out guys in the restaurant together and both get a kick out it, because we know we are going home together. At the same time, she knows that if I'm checking out a girl in a pretty dress, I'm checking out the dress and wishing I could look that good in it.

[carri]

Hello everyone, I want to thank all of you for the continued input, but as my fiancee and I have been reading the responses together I realized that I needed to bring a little more clarity to my situation and current plans for transition.

I know that I never made reference to how far that I was going to transition, currently I do not plan on going full time, as it has been said many times before around the forum, I will transition as much as I need to for myself. My current plan of action is to of course continue going to therapy as it has been helpful for myself as well as my fiancee to ensure that the hard questions are asked, and if there isn't an answer we discuss whatever the topic may be. My fiancee is very accepting of my my feelings no matter what they are, like them or not. I just completed a good book (The transgender guide book :keys to a successful transition) that I would recommend to anyone that is in transition or like myself trying to find out to what extent the need for transition and the risks and benefits of doing so. Currently I plan on starting with hair removal on my face and getting voice lessons, as these are changes that have no life altering effects, but do aid in starting the process of my appearance starting to come more in line with how I see myself inside and if per-chance this is enough for me to be able to live my life happily then that is where it will end.. Also, we have plans on having a family together and I know that use of any hormones while not having an instantaneous affect would effectively make this an impossibility. Also in the time that we are creating our family this gives her the time that she has requested so that the can continue to learn more and accept the consequences of the decisions that we have been discussing. I know that many of you have had negative experiences with your SO's so I understand your words of caution, but there are others of you that have had quite the opposite, and as with each one of us our situations are different and therefor the outcome will be different. I look to the future with a positive attitude.

I know that there are those of you that will have negative things to say, please unless it has a constructive point keep your negativity to yourself, I am here for support on my journey, not for all your negativity. For those of you who think I'm not "trans enough" because I dont currently want to go with a full transition. I know that I am going to make the best decision for me, as with the levels of GD the actions(need to transition) will vary with each of us and our personal needs. I am aware that how far I need/want to go can change based on further exploration(they have from the time I gained initial acceptance of myself), but to take steps further than what I have planned will take more time for consideration as anything more will more than likely changes the lives of those around me and not just me.

I hope this can help clarify my situation and the plans I have moving forward on my journey, again please keep the negative comments to yourself.

[Ann Louise]

I suggest getting everyone out of your counseling sessions except you and your counselor. This is more important than your wife is. This is your life at stake. Work with her in earnest once you've learned what's up with you. Yes hun, HRT "made me" a different person, and the change is profound. That's why I transitioned ☺

[carri]

In what aspects do you consider it to have made you a different person? I know it may sound like a dumb question but I want to make sure we're on the same page, I know that for most of the accounts dealing with changes, it was in a sense very calming over all. In my mind when I say different person, I mean that the core of who I really am is intact and unchanged, IE: attractions( I understand some people said they felt freer to explore emotions regarding sexual attraction,but it comes down to what was there from the start) values,beliefs ect.

[Aprilrain]

Carri, if you have no intentions of going full time and you want to get married and have kids the au natural way why are you so fixated on HRT? (I already know the answer, the question is do you?)

If you are transsexual, you will not be able to control the outcome. You are opening Pandora's jar, but like poor Pandora you really do not have a choice in the matter so go ahead, unscrew that lid...

[becky77]

If your not planning on going fulltime, then your not exactly transitioning, im not sure what it is you are doing? If you plan to have a family then you are sensible not to start hormones, going by what you say your not ready for them anyway. I would recommend a lot more therapy before you make any major decisions, it sounds like you have two different futures in mind.

Transition and hormones change you and you only realise that when you have done it, I said all the things you have said and changed none the less. If your not prepared for that change then why progress? To transition is to change.
Inside I haven't changed a great deal, but almost no one knew that person inside, so to everyone else it a massive change. I'm more confident, relaxed and sociable as I feel better in my own skin, they are all big changes. My softer side comes out now, rather than hiding behind sarcasm or trying not to show emotion. Also, since hormones my sex drive changed completely and I now prefer men, I would have sworn to you before that would never happen, as I was SURE I knew my mind.

It appears to me you seek advise but only want to hear what you want to hear, which I get but it can be a form of delusion, one you don't even realise you are doing. You can't just read the good stuff and dismiss the bad as negativity.

The starting a family bit is a warning bell to me, I worry that you want to bring children into the world to what, a father? Mother? Two Mums? Secrets? What happens after you have children, do you then pursue hormones and risk destroying that family? I don't know and maybe you do, all I ask is that you really think ahead to where it is all going. It's not fair to start a family if you are so very confused in where you are going and if your relationship can survive.
It may work just fine for you, you find your place in the world and successfully raise children together. It's hard for me personally to understand, merely because It's so very different to my experience.

My question to you is, why do you seek transition? It should be because you have to change and yet you are so against change, therefore is transition right for you.
I go back to what I said above, explore more through therapy.

[Rianna Humble]

I know that there are those of you that will have negative things to say, please unless it has a constructive point keep your negativity to yourself, I am here for support on my journey, not for all your negativity.

By your own words, you prove that you are not here for support for your journey - you just want cheerleaders.

It is not a question of whether you are trans enough. No-one who was offering true support has suggested that it was.

You came here asking for advice whilst suggesting that your "transition" was going to be a small amount of cross-dressing. No female identity, no hormones, presenting male to the outside world, wanting to father children.

It is no wonder that those seeking to offer real support questioned what you were actually proposing to do.

Even after you added a micron of additional information, those who have personal experience of trying something similar shared some of the pitfalls and you dismiss them as "negativity".

If all you want is cheerleaders, you can find plenty at an American Football game.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Good luck Cari. I mean that... did you notice that i'll be the 4th one in a row to ignore your advice... that's because we know what happens...its TS forum...we have been through this exact scenario many times...we react because we have lived it and we have seen it so many times with others.
Feel free to pooh pooh what you call negative comments (i call them pragmatic and realistic, and fearlessly supportive..we get alot of crap for being truthful about our experience), i'm sorry they are inconvenient

Be careful about what you call support.. right now you have the luxury of only "believing" the positive comments..If you are truly transsexual and you funnel your information all into what you want to hear its very likely that when it hits you it will hit you very hard.. because then you'll know what you've done...Feeling trapped by yourself is very often a part of extreme gender dysphoria..

In fact, if you are truly transsexual and you funnel your information all into what you want to hear its very likely that when/if it hits you it will hit you very hard.. because then you'll know what you've done.
You will realize that all this planning was what mitigated your GD, your core identity has hope for the future..it will be better...your face will clear, your skin may get soft, you'll cry at movies more, you'll present better and better..
then what??

I wish it was different. Remember My Husband Betty? He's not the man i married?? Those were the guidebooks for marriage and cd'ing...Betty transitioned.

It's good to stay positive but it does not come down to values, beliefs, and actions when you suffer extreme gender dysphoria.. those are cis-luxuries..
at the point of extreme GD, values, beliefs and desire to follow through on promised actions become nothing but fuel for more distress...it feels like a trap.. it feels like you are not alive..its a horrible feeling
this is one way to describe the feeling that drives adult transitioners.

The final principle i stood on was akin to survival..i had alot of principles and values, i am extremely smart and competent and had alot of success and was well known and well loved, i coached and led alot of people, i did alot of good for alot of people especially my family, and i had it all under control until the moment i didnt...life melted.....being a functional human being became impossible.

I know that many of the posters would say the same thing

...i'd also add that altho i'm no longer married my ex is my best friend, my children are wonderful but we did go through 5 years of hell to get here...it was really hard but staying hopeful was a great boon to me and my family
So a positive outcome can be a reality no matter your path but you are well served to understand what you are really getting into and not well served to ignore the reality of the situation or you make a positive outcome less likely
being positive is good, being realistic is better

[LeaP]

It's probably worth throwing in the definition of gender dysphoria here. And that is that it involves clinically significant impairment. In short, it destroys your work life, your personal life, your ability to think and concentrate, your relationships, and wreaks havoc on your psyche. It's not something you contain by way of rational planning and careful approach. In fact, it is not containable.

I don't buy into the spectrum notion. One is either cross-sex identified or not. That doesn't mean that gender-related distress is confined to the cross sex identified. And gender distress, unlike gender identity, IS a sliding scale, ranging from quite mild to quite serious (impairment). One combination of identity and distress is male identity coupled with moderate cross-gender expression pressure. The need for expression extends beyond the closet but not to full-time presentation (much less hormones or transition) and the desire for and otherwise normal male life. The result is moderate to intense cross-dressing.

The person who is not cross sex identified and whose distress rises to levels of serious impairment is rare. Transition can be just as valid for those few as for the cross sex identified transsexual. That leaves two directionally correct possibilities. The first is that you actually are transsexual (I'm not going to quibble over the term here) and exhibiting a few of the symptoms – common symptoms – of those in the early stages of breaking dawn. The responses from the TS members consist mostly of warnings against this possibility because of your protests. The vehemence and nature of your protests, however, suggest the second possibility more strongly, which is that you are a guy with strong cross-dressing needs. If so, more power to you. (A nod here to the citation of Betty, however.)

Despite the noise on this topic WAY too frequently, none of the TS here cares whether you or anyone else is as trans or more trans than anyone else. I can assure you that none of us derive our meaning and importance in life from this forum! Should it disappear tomorrow, it will be as though it were never here at all, but for a few close friends. (For It is among and between us that the important stuff occurred.)

As a practical matter, and I know this will appeal to Kaitlyn, I quote a former manager:


The first priority is solve the problem.

The second priority is Solve The Problem.

The third priority is SOLVE THE F'IN PROBLEM!

It is no surprise at all to learn that he had little taste for theoretical digressions. They tend to get in the way of, well, solving the problem… That said, don't protest that you dislike the advice of people who have solved a very serious problem. It's not coming from theory, much less competitive BS. It's coming from brutal experience. That it may not be your problem is fine. May you be spared trying to clear a train wreck with tweezers.

[carri]

To those of you who replied to my recent update, I in large have received exactly what I was looking for as far as advice. The comment about keeping out the negativity was due in large part not to the responses that I have received, but ones that I have seen on other posts. The largest majority of what I have seen here is a community of people that want to see others make informed and educated decisions that are right for who they are. I am well aware of some of the challenges that I face going ahead with ANY type of transition. I do not consider the sharing of a negative experience as being negative, it is a Kaitlyn said “we react because we have lived it “. It would be ignorant on my part of not take the negative experiences of others as a warning of what is possible. The reason I do not currently plan on doing anything further than basic physical changes at this point (its things I would want done prior to proceeding further either way), is that I (as I’m sure others want/wanted) would like to keep my life as simple as possible, for myself my fiancée and my children. There is always talk of only transition as far as you must, and I’m fairly positive from the comments that those who have done complete transition would agree, if this is workable, it is preferable. I already know to an extent how I would like progress, this is ever changing as I have and will continue learning more about my true inner self. I know in my journey thus far, I have changed greatly as I learned and accepted myself. I only recently have truly started down this path of acceptance. I came out to my fiancée about 5 months ago which was the true beginning to my path. I still have much to learn and many difficult decisions to make. As for defining GD or any of the closely associated “conditions”, I couldn’t agree more that for serious life altering action to be taken, the condition must be the cause of things that produce consequences that are equally serious and more than likely detrimental. With that being said, I have experienced some of the issues that come with GD, at the time when I came out to my fiancée, I had made up my mind, and taken steps to push her from my life because I was so unhappy inside, the only reason that I’m at the point I am now is because I had finally admitted the truth to myself, and passed it along to her. I however was pleasantly surprised by her reaction, although at that time I only told her that I crossdressed, and that I was unsure of many things, with her personal support in learning more about myself as well at starting therapy, I have arrived where I currently am.

As to my desire to have what would be considered a “normal” life with family and kids, it is what I want, nothing more nothing less. I know that in many ways I could be considered gender-fluid, but I identify more with my female self, when I see myself in “boy-mode” I am very unhappy with what I see physically and therefor have the desire to transition to a point, what that point is, I do not know. I know that I will take the actions that I need to in order to be happy in my own skin and if that is full transition short of GRS that is what I will do. There are parts of the TS experience that I do not relate with because, I have never had an issue with my role as a PERSON neither male nor female. I think the equality that I feel is the truest type there is, in my opinion. The role you play in the world is in large part the one that you put yourself in or allow yourself to be put in for whatever reason. Also, I have never had an issue with my genitalia as many have. Also the reference to being “Trans enough” wasn’t in response to anything that I have been told personally, but it is something that I have seen, and have a major issue with. We are all people that want to live a happy life no matter what steps it takes to attain some semblance of this, I know personally that if it we possible and I could remove all these feelings I would, I don’t know of anyone that wakes up one days and says “ ya know I’m gonna see how much of a living hell I can make my life “.

I do appreciate all the advice and sharing of experiences, as I move forward towards an uncertain outcome.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Thanks for your thoughtful response Carri.
You have alot on your plate and you are well served to take in all experience and its really smart to stay open to doing that.

You are right to point out this is very early in the game. I hope your next steps are rewarding and improve your quality of life without all the problems that lots of folks face.

as to the trans enough point, it really isn't about what you and others and noted...i myself experienced it a couple times in the past, the worst being when i dared say the words "going all the way" in front of two transsexual women at conference...i literally wanted to cry after they freaked out on me, it almost ruined the entire conference i couldn't get it out of my mind..... its funny because looking back, i was going through a separation that i hoped to reconcile, i considered myself a crossdresser, i had a great job, i was starting hrt and lasering my body hair, and when on my own presenting as a woman as often as possible....my comments to those women were actually a pathetic attempt to connect with them as the transsexual woman and their rejection stung me in a way that i didn't consciously understand at the time...they were in effect telling me i wasn't trans enough to even dare ask them the question
Within a year of that time i was aiming right for the lowest point when i was realizing my fate....


LOL....i have to say as an aside i'm listening to music as i type this...
its Soundgarden's Fell on Black Days....it strikes me this is just how it went for me...How could i know that this would be my fate??? yikes!!

Whatsoever I've feared has Come to life
Whatsoever I've fought off Became my life
Just when everyday Seemed to greet me with a smile
Sunspots have faded And now I'm doing time
Now I'm doing time

'Cause I fell on Black days
I fell on Black days

Whomsoever I've cured I've sickened now
Whomsoever I've cradled I've put you down
I'm a searchlight soul they say But I can't see it in the night
I'm only faking When I get it right
'Cause I fell on
Black days
I fell on
Black days

How would I know?
That this could be my fate
How would I know?
That this could be my fate