Methods for Protecting yourself when out dressed

[Nadya]

Hello all,

A post from Isha has gotten me thinking of how we can protect ourselves from aggressive, anti-trans people. Whenever I go out, I'm usually with another person (but not always). I know some tips out there would be to travel with someone (especially at night), letting friends know where you are or where you are going, and stay in well-lit areas. My questions for the community would be, What do you do to protect yourself from anti-trans people? What other tips would you add to the list? Where do you feel the most safe going to when dressing? Stay safe everyone!

[Nadine Spirit]

I don't do anything different while dressed as a guy or a girl. I don't walk the streets in unknown neighborhoods at night. I don't flash large amounts of cash around. I hold my head up and keep a watch on others around me.

The way I see it is that unfortunately occasional s__t happens. In Isha's incident, even if she had pepper spray in her purse, it would not have helped from being attacked while her back was turned. I have been the victim of a variety of crimes, and none of them happened while dressed as a girl.

[Katey888]

Given the extremely unfortunate and relatively unusual circumstance of someone from the forum being badly, physically assaulted recently, I'm sure this is a topic many of you would like to discuss and share tips and thoughts on how to be out and about safely...

BUT... I would remind you all of what are prohibited subjects on the forum and WILL be DELETED - two subjects in particular:


• Guns/weapons, using, buying etc.
• Use/sale of illicit drugs and drug paraphernalia or condoning any other illegal activity.

'Weapons' means ALL weapons: edged, blunt, concealed, stealth, chemical, electrical and firearms.

Please don't try to evade this with inferences or code or the thread will be closed.
Too many rule violations and the thread will be closed.

Thanks all.
Katey
Moderator

[Ms.Kenadie]

I would say common sense is the main thing, and listen to your inner voice, so to speak. If you feel uneasy about it, chances are it would be a good idea to avoid the place or situation. I think learning to defend yourself cant hurt either. Be smart, stay safe, and always pay attention to whats going on around you.

[pamela7]

perhaps we can mention a link to self-defense sites?
perhaps many of us do need to learn some basic self-defense for when out dressed?

[Jeninus]

I am dubious about the value of a self-defence course. Isha was in Canadian Special Forces and knew that she couldn't defend against three attackers, although I am sure that one-on-one she was more than a match for an attacker - even in heels.:)

[Kate Simmons]

In my opinion the best defense is to always be aware of your surroundings and who is around, plus always have an escape route. This works even when not en femme. :)

[Melissa in SE Tn]

I again defer to the words of wisdom by that sage, Rodney King: " why can't we all just get along? ". Simple words to live by, difficult challenges for those filled with hate.

[mykell]

hope this is OK....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNJwxJXr2jc
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNJwxJXr2jc)

a shot to the throat even, if they are trying to catch theyre breath they are giving time to get away....
but any of these only work when the odds are in your favor.....

[Jenniferathome]

I don't do anything different while dressed as a guy or a girl. ...


THIS !!!

And that includes thinking one can out walk thugs tailing you to your car. Three on one is a losing proposition whether you have heels on or not. Clearly no one would ever expect these thugs to beat you, but one can better their odds by walking to a main street or pre-dial 911 and put them on speaker.

[Billie Jean]

Practioner of Shorin Ryu for 35+ years. Billie Jean

[Sarah L]

I am taking martial arts because I go out as a woman. I told my instructor this when I signed up. She has never mentioned it since.

Even so, my main focus is trying to blend in. If you are commited to going out, the best defense is to not get noticed at all.

Keep your head up and be confident. They are more likely to go after someone who shows a sign of weakness.

My instructors offer free self defense classes for women's groups. If a local martial arts school does this, you might be able to take one of these if you explain the situation. If you are confident enough to go out, you can tell a potential teacher about your dressing.

Pick and choose where you go carefully. You can face a confrontation anywhere, but you can lower the odds by staying out of areas you are unfamiliar with.

Go out during the day. You have a better chance of seeing potential trouble makers in the daylight. There is also a better chance of having help at 2PM than at 2AM. Nothing good happens after midnight. That's an old saying.

When leaving a "safe" location, going to your car, have your keys ready. If possible, carry whatever you have in your weaker hand.

If you even suspect possible trouble, go back inside whatever location you are leaving. I would bet a place like walmart would be glad to have an employee help you out to your car if you need it. At any rate, it wouldn't hurt to ask. Park as close to the building as you can (don't take the handicap spot, but you know that.)

Maybe try to leave when other people are leaving, they are less likely to do anything violent with potential defenders/trial witnesses are present.

Don't take your eyes off of someone who has shown hostility. Isha's story is an unfortunate example of this.

Go out with friends if possible.

I hate to say this...but....wear practical shoes when alone. If you can't outrun them in heels, maybe wear flats.

If you are going to fight back, kick them in the knee, some men turn into the hulk when kicked in the groin.

I don't know, but if it's a place that has security cameras in the parking lot, maybe remind them they are on film that could identify them.

Everyone is a potential victim, not just crossdressers. Be careful regardless of how you are dressed and where you are.

[Beverley Sims]

When dressed I stay in well lit and populated areas.
Mostly shopping malls and places of entertainment.

[Marcelle]

THIS !!!

And that includes thinking one can out walk thugs tailing you to your car. Three on one is a losing proposition whether you have heels on or not. Clearly no one would ever expect these thugs to beat you, but one can better their odds by walking to a main street or pre-dial 911 and put them on speaker.

Granted . . . unfortunately, I had nowhere else to go as I was already committed to the parking lot and my car. It was in a main, well lit area but was also Sunday so very little foot traffic. Pre-dialed 911 would have been helpful but I never even had time to get a phone out. My mistake was turning my back to a potential threat and for that I feel completely stupid (should have known better). However, in the end three to one odds . . . I can handle myself but it is not like the movies and I most likely would have taken a beat down regardless.

Isha

[pamela7]

in 1979 in a city bar in England (with a friend, both men dressed as men), having drunk a lot, I became aware of a group of men - 7 or 8 - who took a bad-vibe interest in us. I told my friend we were leaving, I had to push him, and we left, and sure enough the group followed. We ran for miles before we lost them. That was young and fit, and in the days before cellphones. Sure we were aware, but we were targeted for being different - in the wrong pub at the wrong time, we drew attention to ourselves.

I have 3 times been the target of pickpockets. Each time I have foiled the attempt. The last time, I predicted an attack, and my friend simply swayed out of the way of the attacker, causing the attacker to fall-over - as they expected to bump into him.

Camouflage, blending, being less obvious, avoiding attraction, being hyper-aware, these are necessary in modern cities, whether we are dressed or not.

On the other hand, I've been ripped off quite a few times in business ... guess we have to be aware all the time!

PS I just remember a time being stalked late at night in Barcelona (Spain), by a similarly large guy, total psycho. He "marked" me and trailed on the metro. I was with a friend but anything would have been no contest, I could tell. I stalled leaving the station, if I'd continued out i'd have bumped into him, giving him cause to attack. It was all about awareness and avoiding the giving of an excuse for the person(s) to take offense.

[Lynn Marie]

Pick your venues, go out with friends, stay alert, make friends with the "security" guy and the owner of places you go to.

[Donnagirl]

Hi all,

If I may add my 2 cents...

Firstly, don't believe TV.. If there is more than one assailant, the best skills are not enough.

Bad guys also do martial arts... Don't be fooled by self confidence.

If you've never been in a fight it's a mass of adrenalin, panic and levels of fear, generally over before you even realise it's started.. To be effective we train endlessly so actions rely on muscle memory and not conscious thought.

I doubt heels would give me the contact with the ground required to deliver an effective strike...

Sprays don't work on every one..

Drunk or drugged assailants can be difficult to subdue even with overwhelming weight of numbers!!! One on one even the best of skill can be ineffective...

Your best option is not to place yourself in the situation to start with, risk assessment, reconnoissance and planning... If you are cornered eye contact, talk, talk, talk... Conflict de-escalation is the training I'd recommend.

Shout loudly, scream for help if need be... I would!!!

I only hope no one ever finds themselves in a bad situation... None of us are Uma Thuman, wish I could rock a yellow and black jumpsuit like that though!!!

Hugs,

Donna

[donnalee]

The best advice I can give is this:
READ THE STREET!
Know who is there (even with general impressions), watch how they behave, look for danger signs (too many in a group or only men [although young women are starting to take up this kind of behavior, it is much less likely]), watch for guys hanging out on corners (especially liquor stores), look up for shoes hanging from overhead wires (indicates local drug traffic), and keep checking; if anything looks at all out of place, cross the street at the corner (if they are too close, immediately!; it is harder to chase someone who is moving away). Try not to be obvious about this, but do it! You are far more likely to avoid trouble if you remember. you're a timid mouse, not a brave tiger!
The time to be a tiger is when physical danger is imminent, but give the impression of not revealing anything and that they are playing into your hands; don't volunteer anything and be polite, but don't raise your voice; this telegraphs panic and will likely trigger an attack. What you want is a bit of mystery If they don't know what you're capable of, they may not want to find out. Use any confusion and indecision on their part to extract yourself from the situation; don't run but move away as quickly as you can with dignity. They will try for an easier target. One thing to remember is that these scuzballs are essentially lazy and will back off if it seems difficult to them. Use it!
I have lived in tough parts of a tough town for most of my life and these tactics have kept me pretty safe for better than 40 years. They are not 100% effective; nothing is, but I will say that the only times I got in trouble was when I ignored them.

[Marcelle]

Hi Folks,

Please do not think the world is a crazy place full of people wishing to harm us. Yes there are haters and there always will be. Hypervigilance is fine but not to the degree where you look like the might gazelle on the Serengeti amongst a pride of lions. The best defense is to be aware of your surroundings and yes stay away from bad parts of town and dark alleys. I made one fatal mistake (I turned my back to a potential threat) and I should have known better but I can "what if" this to death and still come out no further ahead. Nobody should be made to feel as though they are the cause of their own attack . . . in the world even the best laid plans can go south very easily regardless of any precautions you take.

Regarding taking three people on at once . . . well this is not the movies and even though some may have martial arts training, let's just say I have been engaged in several altercations (non-TG related) and my training served no real purpose when the odds are not even as you cannot track more than one person at a time and someone will always get the best of you with uneven odds. As many have said the best defense is caution and knowing your surroundings but in the end if something should happen . . . it is not your fault but the ones who hate.

Hugs

Isha

[NicoleScott]

Carry a loud whistle and use it at the first sign of trouble. Also, all the things we're not allowed to talk about.

[Nadya]

All great advice. I didn't mean for this to be a discussion about Isha herself but rather what people going out should be aware of if going out. Probably knowing the area and being well-prepared is a big part of staying safe.

[Pat]

My previous life experience tells me that "all the things we're not allowed to talk about" are pretty useless in these situations. It doesn't matter if you're a kung-fu master or master marksman if you're a civilized person dealing with sociopaths. Sociopaths have no restraint; no remorse. The best defense is avoidance and that's been pretty clearly spelt out already.

[ophelia]

There are individuals and groups out there who prey upon those displaying or projecting and sort of unease....fear, anxiety, depression, confusion, panic, disorientation etc. in your body language, voice and such. The primary defense against predators is a well grounded shield of confidence. There are others. I don't know whether they all work. I do know that I don't want to find out if they're not working.
I have deer whistles on my car. I don't know if they work. But in my area I've seen dead moose, deer, fox and coyote along the road and I've never hit a one.
Sorry Isha, but I do not believe that you can be "over prepared."
One book I have had on my bathroom reading rack for thirty years is called "Defendo, The Total Self-Defense System"
ISBN0-7715-9758-4
The greatest thing about this book is the first part is dedicated to reading and avoiding situations where you will need the serious and easily learned physical techniques in part two, which starts with simple pinches and finger twists and ends with deflecting a gun from your forehead.
I am sure there are other manuals and you can take various courses in basic self defense.
I think aikido would be helpful as it uses your assailant's energy against him.
Thanks to Google you can visit most shopping centres, theatres and many outdoors areas on line. You can learn where the washrooms, security stations and such are. The exits, the parking closest to the store or salon, and even the insides of these places, restaurants and cafes. And using *69 and calling ahead to find out an establishment's policy on crossdressers works.
It has been helpful when I've scouted the venue in advance in male mode.
I've yet to go out in 2015, but I'm thinking of making a diary to record what works and what fails on my outings.
But like I said, better foreknowledge of your destination and being confident your defensive abilities will give you that shield of confidence, in male or femme.
This knowledge and confidence will allow your beauty to shine through

[Khora]

Nobody should be made to feel as though they are the cause of their own attack

This is interesting point because it seems that when any GG is sexually harassed/assaulted or raped, there always seems to be the questions like "Why were you there?" or "Well what were you wearing?" The simple fact is that she was attacked simply for being a woman, like Isha was attacked simply for being TG. It's such an unfortunate thing that we live in a world where you can be assaulted just for existing and it makes me so sad.

[Tracii G]

Keeping yourself protected by any means legal should always be a consideration.

[Launa]

Hey gang,

I haven't been around for a bit and I started this thread based on what happened to Isha. These things are reality and go hand in hand with what we do if we're out in public. I was also talking to AllieSF about this situation last week and it got me thinking although there is nothing you can do if someone hits you from behind, you're probably going to go down and have to do what you can to scramble away. However if you are interested in practicing martial arts for the streets then here is my opinion for the best forms to practice against an attack:

1. Kali or AKA Escrima fighting - Filipino martial arts, you learn how to turn anything and everything into a weapon from a cell phone, pen, purse. you name it.

2. Jeet Kune Do - this has been the best I have ever seen. It was developed to defend against multiple attackers with using the least amount of energy.

If you can master the above 2 martial arts together then the practitioner is well versed for the streets. If you can't take or find a school that teaches Jeet Kune Do then try Krav Maga it is good and simple but Jeet Kune Do is better once the practitioner masters the concepts.
I have seen teachers that weigh 140 lbs that are very lethal in these martial arts.

Once you learn the aforementioned then I suggest you dabble in

1. Judo - learn all you're take downs and foot sweeps.

2. Western Boxing - this teaches you to bob and weave in and out of punches

3. A bit of Karate - this teaches you to hit targets a high speed. Learn how to front kick, side kick and mule kick. Also learn how to move in and out real fast but stay away from the traditional patterns. They are a waste of time.

The following forms I would not use as a base are:

1. Traditional Muy Tai - I don't believe this is good for the street but still better than nothing

2. Tae Kwon Do - stay away from this one

3. Traditional Karate - as I said its good to learn the speed, movement and distance to targets but you do not want to be trying a tornado kick in the streets. Don't spend too much time with it.

3. Brazillian Ju Jit SU - stay away form because you want to stay standing.

Use Jeet Kune Do and Escrima fighting for your base or hub is my opinion. you are using open hands to fight with and you striking points are different from all the other forms!

[sabrinaedwards]

I am always concerned about having an incident like Isha experienced. I enjoy going to clubs that feature impersonators and are friendly to CDers. Also, I am always alone. These establishments are not in the best parts of town and the shows start late. The one thing that I do is to be aware and to follow my instincts.

[Cheryl T]

Basically follow the same rules that any woman would when you go out.
Don't go somewhere sketchy, be it day or night. Don't go alone if you don't have to...safety in numbers.
Remember it's not easy to run in heels and a tight skirt.

If you encounter those that are anti-us ... best to avoid the confrontation and live to fight another day.

[Carmen]

Speaking from experience, during my salad days in the service, I was with a few of my buddies having a good time in the Philippines.
In the downtown zone near the base, we took one of our regular shortcuts behind the main streets down a dark alley.
We were immediately surrounded by 6 bandits, they were blocking our path. One of them leapt in front of us and executed a traditional Kung Fu challenge.
Prior to enlisting a had studied Kung Fu and with no hesitation I jumped out and answered his challenge, and locked eyes with him. I was ready for combat and he saw that.
There was a moment of silence as both groups watched and waited for our combat to begin, however we both backed down and bowed and stepped back.
We went on our way, but I continued to watch them walking away from us. I was focused and ready for their possible counter attack.
No one noticed the small coins in my hand to be used as a distraction tactic aka 'bullets' into the face.

My pals were astonished as no one knew that I was up to something like that. And back then I weighed in at 130 lbs. soaking wet.
They said it was like being in a movie scene. Back on the ship the story got out and I ended up giving a few street defense lessons.

My dad used to tell me to go after the leader when confronted by a group.
If you can intimidate their leader, you stand a better chance of avoiding a fight.
I grew up in a gang infested suburb, so running into small bands of wannabe gangbangers was common. If I couldn't avoid them, at least I knew how to deal with them.

I keep those tactics fresh no matter how I'm presenting. Most of all I keep to the safe areas when out and about.

[Jackie7]

I'm a lover not a fighter, I'll have to rely on the protection of numbers by usually being out with my wife and friends, on my well-honed urban trouble-avoiding instincts, and as a last resort if cornered, what donnagirl said, talk my way out if it, or try to. In my 68 years, talk and occasionally yelling has always been my best defense.

[Katey888]

Thanks to everyone who has made a thoughtful contribution to this subject.

I suspect we have exhausted any non-contentious ideas that might stay within the rules - and everyone who's pushed the envelope otherwise has made this subject just too high maintenance for moderation.

Let's just get back to the more regular topics now, shall we? And hope and pray that we go a fair while before any other members become the victim of a statistical hate crime. :thinking:

Thread closed.

Katey
Moderator