The "Only transitions if you HAVE too" paradox

[Kate T]

This is the pretty much universally acknowledged advice given to anyone considering transition. Justifiably so. Yet there is an inherent paradox that never seems to be talked about. Along with this universal advice comes the almost equally universal "I wish I had transitioned sooner". It seems on a cursory interpretation that whilst an individual should not transition "until they have too" it would seem from experience here that the only regret experienced is that they should have transitioned presumably before they had too (i.e. I wish I had done it earlier).

The converse paradox is that of early intervention vs do no harm. As a veterinarian I am a strong advocate for early intervention. Generally the earlier treatment is initiated in treatment of a problem then the higher likelihood of a successful outcome, the easier is the resolution and the interventions are generally cheaper. It is arguable that by leaving intervention "until they have too" that there is a higher risk of significant pararelated illness occurring complicating initiation of appropriate intervention for the true underlying concern. Unfortunately though there is no real definitive test or even general agreement on when is the ideal time to initiate interventions. In the absence of clear evidence then it is arguable that a non interventional "do no harm" approach is preferable. there is certainly significant medical effects associated with medication or surgical interventions associated with gender transition therapy.

What do others think of this apparent conundrum?

[Karolyn]

I am 33 and starting HRT in less than two weeks. A lot of the past issues I have had were related to my dysphoria (such as stress and high blood pressure, not feeling well in general, still being single, etc.). Now that I know I am transitioning, I am feeling incredibly better, but I have had that feeling, multiple times, of "I wish I had transitioned sooner". I did not happen mostly because I did not know about it until 5 years ago, and the information I had in the past (internet and TV documentaries) were focusing mostly on bottom surgery, and how extreme the changes were. So I was not considering it. Now that I am ready, I am at an age where I will become a woman rather than a girl. I have early signs of aging, like wrinkles, and those will not allow me to be a gorgeous 20 years old girl. I am compensating currently by wearing clothes that are not for "my age range", at home only. Outside, I am more "mature" looking.

But when thinking about what happened in the last 10 years (since I started crossdressing daily), I realize that the transition would have been way more difficult. I read a lot online about people that transition while being student, or looking for jobs (either the first time or after being fired for being a TG). For them, the transition is incredibly hard, because they have to handle their own transformation, the costs that come with it, and external worries such as job seeking. On my side, I am settled now. I have a job that I like after doing studies until I was 27, and I now live in my own house since a few months. That will make me worry only about the transition itself, and nothing else.

To summarize, I have regrets to not be able to come back as a younger girl, but at the same time I realize the transition would have been much harder, resulting in less happiness overall. So that reduces my regrets to almost none, and I just live life in the present, rather than thinking about a possible past.

To answer your question, I would advise people to transition if they really feel like they need to, but think first about the external factors that would make the transition harder, and gauge which issue has to be dealt with first.

[KellyJameson]

I learned that phrase on this forum and it was from reading the postings on this forum that I learned it made sense for some but not something I would ever subscribe to for myself.

The idea that for some not only is the middle path possible but also probably safer never occured to me "coming out my experience with GD." For me it was always "all or nothing" and I tried the "nothing path" as long as possible other than wearing my hair down to the middle of my back and laser/electrolysis.

I had no illusions about how dangerous hormones can be or being transsexual in a country with rampant transphobia.

I pushed down my subconscious gender identity with everything I had but to do that I had to keep very tight control over every aspect of my life. I had to lace myself up into a type of psychological straightjacket so my subconscious could not take over.

I was constantly fighting myself and living relentlessly with the fear that I would lose control over my female identity that kept asserting itself. It was a conscious battle to control my unconscious mind.

For me anything remotely feminine was extremely dangerous. Crossdressing would be like letting a wild beast out of its cage.

I cared F..k all about shame and never experienced shame because I never had a male identity "to experience shame with"

You only experience identity conflict when you identify with that group but there was no male identity for me to threaten with by "unmasculine behavior" (crossdressing) so hence no shame or self loathing that you see crossdressers go through. People give away their actual gender identity all the time by how they experience shame.

Consciously I used masculinity to hide the truth. I played at being a man to hide the truth that "I was not" to avoid the danger if anyone found out that I was not, but I certainly was not emotionally invested "In masculinity" because I did not identify as male subconsciously. Your subconscious beliefs always give you away eventually.

Crossdressing was threatening to me not because of what others think "as to their acceptance" but because I would lose control over suppressing my female identity. I lived in a constant state of suppression of self as my gender identity because I instinctively knew once I lost control I would or could be placing myself in extreme danger.

I desperately wanted to be born but I also desperately did not want to be killed. I was simply fighting for two different types of survival. My gender identity was fighting for survival subconsciously and I was consciously fighting for survival as to not doing something that could get me killed or make me sick. Thats all it was. Very simple...... SURVIVAL

For me transitioning is all about survival and how you go about it.

But there is this whole other world related to transitioning that I did not know existed. Made out of fantasy and wanting to be a woman for whatever reasons people want to be a woman. It appears from their words that they are not women but maybe not men but some type of mixture of both and that they can live as both. This is so far removed form my own experience that it seems best to recommend the advice "only transition if you have to and or as far as you have to"

I definitely subscribe to the idea of only if you have to and I did everything for years to NOT TRANSITION, not because I was not a woman but because I knew "I WAS" and what the implications were because of that.

The paradox is I now know it was always a fixed game and I was always destined to lose it but how can you know this while you are still fighting against it? You can't.

The best you can do is look at how GD is trashing your life. It caused me PTSD but the problem is when you are suffering from any kind of mental illness than it is natural to think that this deep conviction that has always been with you is just another expression of this mental illness and truth be told sometimes it is.

Mental illness may be why some people want to be the opposite gender (identify with) but not being your "actual gender" causes mental illness so what came first, the chicken or the egg?

I finally reached a point where if this is mental illness and the only way to cure it is by transitioning than thats what I must do. Of course you never tell the therapist this but I was completely exhausted from a lifetime of fighting against myself.

Everyone is left ultimately trying to find balance and if you can walk the middle path lucky for you.

At some point maybe the best thing to do is to stop trying to define what is a man or woman according to everyone and figure it out for yourself.

I do get apprehensive often for some who are transitioning because it seems like they really do not identify as a woman so much as they identify with women but from a males point of view. This seems a dangerous path to walk when HRT or surgery is involved or worse they are doing it purely for sexual reasons to find a partner but without that deeply held lifelong conviction of being female.

Not WANTING to be a girl but BEING a girl. Being a girl who recognizes something is seriously wrong is very different from wanting to be a girl. You are coming from a completely different gender identity between the two.

I personally would never recommend any type of transitioning unless you have been seriously fighting against a long held subconscious conviction that you are female.

To transition without that deeply held core identity (subconscious) you are placing your life in serious danger in my opinion. You would be creating the very thing transsexuals are trying to escape from.

For me the paradox is it seems an awful lot of men want to be a woman (physical ) when all I wanted was to stop being a woman (subconscious gender identity)

I tried for years to force my brain to match my body but it knew better and kept fighting back.

[Zooey]

I'm always torn on how to feel about the "only transition if you have to" statement, because I'm not sure how it applies to me.

I've started to formally transition because, well, I realized I was already doing it. Once I realized it had been months since I'd left the house as a man for anything other than work, and that what used to feel like crossdressing felt like life and work was the new crossdressing, it felt right to me.

Honestly, the "only if you have to" rhetoric is tough for me, because I guess clearly I had to, but I never had the "traditional story". I was never severely depressed, I've never contemplated suicide. My dysphoria has gotten worse since transitioning socially. because I'm experiencing the low of going back to my male costume every day now. Before, it was my normal state, and while it was low I never felt the high necessary to provide the context.

In my weaker moments, I sometimes actually have imposter syndrome about it - I seriously wonder whether or not I'm sad enough to be allowed to pursue happiness in some people's eyes. How screwed up is that? :p

So "only do it if you have to", but - at least in my opinion - that doesn't have to mean a lot of the really negative things that everybody talks about.

[PaulaQ]

In an ideal world, those of us who noticed these feelings as children would've been given puberty delaying drugs, allowed time to figure out if transition was right for us, and then given medical treatment. We'd have lived most of our lives as cis women do.

And while more trans children today receive such treatment early on, most of the rest of us have to wait until our bodies have been poisoned and disfigured by T, sometimes quite severely.

So realistically, nearly everyone in this forum received treatment "too late."

The reason we have the paradox you stated is that by and large, the world doesn't accept us, and so transition can bring massive personal loss, and great hardship in the trans person's life. It's understandable that we often try to avoid this as long as possible.

The downside is that some of us hit the wall "transition or die." Apparently 41% of us hit this wall. You don't want to reach such a point of misery and desperation, it's quite dangerous.

[Rianna Humble]

The oft repeated, and very valid advice "don't transition unless you need to and if you do need to then don't let anything stand in your way" is not about whether someone has attempted suicide, it is very much about quality of life and perhaps to a lesser degree about determination.

We see some people posting here about transition, but who value their relationship with a non-accepting wife more than they value being congruent. Or who value being seen to be the father of their children more than they feel the need to be whole. Or who value something else more than the need to be seen for who they really are. For those people, transition would be a mistake because it is not a priority for them and they would lose whatever the other thing is that they prize more.

We also see some people coming here in a pink fog with fantasies of being treated like a Hollywood starlet or a princess or something. In many cases, these posters (if they even are transsexual) would regret the outcome because reality would not come anywhere near to their fantasy.

I regret not transitioning earlier, but that is tied to the fact that I fought against my need to transition for such a long time it is not tied to not needing to transition previously. To quote one friend who knew me during that time of internalised struggles against my identity
You never were a man, Rianna

[PaulaQ]

The oft repeated, and very valid advice "don't transition unless you need to and if you do need to then don't let anything stand in your way" is not about whether someone has attempted suicide, it is very much about quality of life and perhaps to a lesser degree about determination.


True - it isn't about desperation. And that is why this advice is often dead wrong in my opinion. I certainly received a ton of well intended but in fact quite horrible advice here based on this idea of "only transition if you have to."

There is a point to the advice - unfortunately you have to choose between an uncertain future, and certain misery from living as a man. And while we like to talk about transition horror stories (which are all too real), in fact some transitions are easier than others.

A great deal of the energy behind this idea seems to be fear of "Oh. My. God. They. Aren't. Really. Transsexual. And. They. Regret. Transition!!!!!!"

Look - before you do anything too awfully permanent to your body, you need to be quite sure that transition is for you, which unfortunately means living through some of the worst parts of transition - the early part. This is horrendously unfair, but it lets one see if the misery from GD that's eliminated is > than the misery of being trans and visible in our society, or for that matter, if transition is even right for that person.

Unfortunately, there really are no guarantees nor perfect predictors of success. Some of us will have extraordinarily hard lives during and post transition. Some of us will be murdered because we are trans.

I guess some of this notion is regionally based too. I seem to hear this attitude more from people where trans medical care is more readily available. Hey, maybe some medical systems push people to transition who shouldn't, or push people too quickly, before they really know. In many places though, the barriers to entry are pretty high - your experience transitioning in Texas is apt to be very different from someone who transitions in Canada.

[STACY B]

Right,,, Right,, An Right ,, Paula hit it ,, Rianna hit ,, An Kelly just lives in my head an reads my mind ,,lol,,

But the ol saying I should have earlier is kinda of Crazy for us older chix . Because of the lack of Medical care or advice . Even Now where I live there is very limited services ,, No General Doctors nor Endo's ,, Just a few therapist . With that being said who could afford to just pick up an move ? It's bad enough to have this an have a family or just the cost alone of going to local Doctors an having to pay out of pocket for all the different services you need much less throwing in Travel .
As far as the Education about Trans medicine an services they change month to month it seems there always evolving .

You have to wait until it's your own best time to do it ,, You can't use someone else's time line ,, It might be kinda close to your timeline but not exact . Everyone's different in there own way an this is no different . You could have picked a better job or house or car or on an on ,,, So this is one ride you got to step up an take control of . An just hope for the best .

An as far as children are concerned now a days my point exactly ,,, Blockers are more main stream an getting treatment much earlier just like lots of things before ,, Hell back in the day there were all kinds of small things that would or could Kill you that there are simple treatments for today . So this in my opinion is just like anything else ,, They will find a treatment an make it better an better by trail an error an move on to something else . I am sure there are lots of New things happening right now we would not even understand about . We understand Trans issues because we are Trans ,, What about all the other issues we neglect while consintrating on our own problems ?

[PretzelGirl]

I probably feel more like Zooey. As each of our paths are individual experiences, I find mine to certainly qualify. "Have to" can have a overbearing feeling to it. Don't define it as "if I don't, I am dead" as that is too far. I think I actually hit a sweet spot and it worked in my favor as it occurred on my terms. I did feel wrong all my life, but it didn't become something to address until the point I did. Because the environment was right, I was able to transition without a lot of the accompanying stressors and my mind was able to deal with it. So I believe that there is a component to a healthy transition to where you do it at the right time and not wait too long, not just from the depression side but also from the side of being able to cope with the transition itself.

Now a lot of people have probably delayed their transition due to the environment of that time. People have only been gaining acceptance on a broader scale recently and insurance just didn't happen. So it could be argued that the definition of "have to" is sliding a little because the level of family/social repercussions will drop over the years making it less of a personal issue. So I am hopeful that we will see more healthy transitions as I would like all to experience it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Paula,

Advice is always sometimes wrong.

You mention that you felt it was bad advice for you but then you put down a lot of words that kind of contradict what you said...and then you go on to talk about maybe getting murdered!!!
So basically i would argue that if i am about to do something that is permanent, that is a totally blind alley, there is no guarantee of success, that is horrendous to experience, and that might get me murdered, i probably shouldn't go down that path unless i have to..

I have no trouble with the statement or rianna's more robust and complete version of it.
It simply represents a shorthand way of saying something that is difficult to put in words without writing a book of sorrows..
It's not like people say or type "dont transition unless you have too" and just leave it at that anyway..

I have to admit that if you drill down on the simplicity of the statement you are faced with the followup question of "how do i know??" and all i have for that is you will "just know"...if you can't answer the question and say "i just know i have too", you are going to face a lot of roadblocks and potentially many losses and disappointments...regardless of the idea of "its getting better out there", you will still be marginalized especially if you don't pass ...you will still be a target for ignorance and hatred and potentially violence...

Another shorthand thing that ts people often say is "don't overthink it"...another is "do what you need to do".... there are lots of them that need alot more follow up if they are to mean something and be constructive..

[STACY B]

I agree with Kaitlyn's statements ,, You can read an read all you want about other peoples lives an there hardships or successes but we all have different lives . Live in much different places with different kinds of people in our area . An most certainly different services are available for each one . An one thing most of all is being in a good place with your job an money to pay for it all . So transitioning earlier without help from family is almost unheard of .

[Dianne S]

Honestly, the "only if you have to" rhetoric is tough for me, because I guess clearly I had to, but I never had the "traditional story". I was never severely depressed, I've never contemplated suicide.

Wow, Zooey! You could be me talking! That's exactly how I feel. And in my weaker moments, I also think "WTF am I doing? Am I really needing to do this?"

But then I remember how much happier I am presenting as a woman and I realize "Yes. This is right."

[flatlander_48]

The natural arc of Life is childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, middle age and old age. Owing to how the circumstances of ones life changes over time, it would seem that transition is easier (obviously relatively!) earlier or later.

At an earlier time, ones life is probably not well established and rooted. Great change can be accomodated better because there is less to keep you stationary. I'm assuming that a career wouldn't be established, or at least well established. Perhaps there is no family or perhaps only a spouse. At a later time, maybe it almost becomes a WTF deal because there is less concern about the reactions you will get. If you have a family situation, kids will be older and possibly full grown. There will likely be more career security or even retirement.

It would seem that in the middle is a more difficult situation to work with as you could have a lot invested in career, home and family. There's a lot more in play, many things to deal with and a myriad of things to go wrong.

DeeAnn

[LeaP]

Like most that delve into meaning, the OP paradox revolves (and resolves) around semantic ambiguity. That damage may have occurred doesn't obviate the meaning of need or transition or even damage. It's usefulness is in exploring one's premises

Watch out for the hidden assumptions in such formulations! An important one here is that damage caused by earlier transition would either not have occurred or be irrelevant.

[becky77]

I wish I had transitioned earlier, but I obviously wasn't ready.
You can only regret not starting sooner when you have actually started, and you can only start when you are ready. Better to regret not doing it sooner, than to regret doing it.

[PaulaQ]

My problem with the statement "Only transition if you HAVE to", is that I got a very strong sense that really, what was being said to me was:

" Don't transition."
" You are just a CD lost in the pink fog!"
"Your feelings about this aren't real!"

Married CDs seem to get this sort of advice a lot, despite the other really obvious symptoms they describe that peg them as a transsexual badly in need of transition.

I feel pretty certain that some here on CD.com have an agenda of keeping such people from considering transition. I can think of several reasons that might be, and I'm sure the reasons such people might feel that way vary from person to person. And I am not implying that this attitude is universal.

But I am saying that the idea "don't do it unless you have to" is inherently dangerous - because the entire rest of the world so often tells us - "you don't need to do this, no one does!" Reinforcing that, however unintentionally, seems like a bad thing to me.

It's not that there aren't people who are being totally unrealistic about their need to transition. I have seen that before, although I have to say that at least here, the barriers to entry are pretty high. It's just that I continue to see people who pretty obviously need professional help being told, basically, "stop huffing the pink fog."

I am finding the intention of this idea to be quite different from it's actual implementation here.

[MsVal]

The advice not to transition unless you have to is one of those wise old pieces of advice that seem to be bandied about without much supporting evidence. I say 'seems to' because I haven't (yet) paid it a great deal of attention. Please pardon my ignorance. I wonder, though, in the spirit of my oft asked question: "What bad thing would happen if you didn't?"

I already view transitioning as a scary, expensive, lonely, painful, and alienating venture.

What bad things happens to those who don't follow the advice and transition when they don't have to?

Best wishes
MsVal

[Kaitlyn Michele]

So val your idea is
"go for it, what can go wrong"??...

You also said.
"I already view transitioning as a scary, expensive, lonely, painful, and alienating venture."
Really?? No kidding.

How is saying that to a possible transitioner any better than saying "don't transition unless have to"..

Both you and Paula have now critiqued the statement and then came up with nastier scarier ways to say the same thing
...at least you didn't add you might get murdered..dont transition unless you have to pales to what you folks are saying.

I disagree that the idea is dangerous unless you take the position that sharing any difficult information with a troubled person is dangerous.
And i'd also add its unfair to ignore the fact that pretty much every troubled person that comes here is encouraged to seek out professional therapy.
Leaving that out really moves the argument away from what is really happening here.

And purely semantically Paula saying "don't transition unless you have to" actually PRESUMES that transition can be needed... it is the opposite of saying no one needs it...

++++++


The real story is that people that transition have a strong bias to counsel extreme caution. It's just a fact. Why is that??

Is it because they are a cabal of people that want their club to be exclusive? That hate crossdressers? We don't want people to know how awesome it is??
That is such a crock

or is that because they know what its really like and what the risks and rewards are? how expensive it is? how marginalizing it can be? what its like to look into your wifes eyes as she realizes you are transitioning..your kids eyes?

I actually don't think any rational person could conclude transition is anything but a last resort. Concluding its a last resort does not invalidate anybody. It doesn't stop anybody. You can go from 0-60 in a flash if you conclude you need to transition. Being a last resort means its an actual option to consider. It's not something to ignore.

Most of us know lots of transitioners...i do. they generally encouraged professional help and counsel to me and told me transition is a last resort to curing my gender dysphoria and to explore all alternatives to transition...and if i did transition they counseled me to be prepared for lots of really difficult times and they were right on all counts...

Who would know better than transitioned transsexuals and therapists?

btw..as an aside..I was told many times Paula that i was "just a cd" ...i know what its like...but i got over it, and so did you..


Does it make anybody feel that there should be a much more positive and encouraging viewpoint whereby all people are encouraged to pursue it as a primary alternative?

[arbon]

Val - just my observation but I know quite a few TS women who are broken and have a lot of problems, who are not very happy. Most I would think, from knowing them, had to transition, but some maybe not. One of my friends who transitioned a long time ago has said to me a few times if she knew how it was really going to be she would not have done it - she lost a lot and maybe what she got in return was not what she had expected.

I tend to want to dissuade most people and wish they could figure out how to make their lives work as men. Its just transitioning can be very hard and the other side of the fence is not always so much better when you get there. I don't feel that way for everyone though. Some come across as very certain and even graceful about transition and it almost seems easy for them without a lot of ordeal (like Sue!), maybe she did not seem like she had to but is a happy awesome woman so better for her. I was not like that! For me it was more a last ditch effort before killing myself, I was really coming apart from the inside out. My transition was not the hardest but definitely not real smooth going either. I felt like I had to though and things are better, but still I have issues and not everything is resolved, I'm still not all together. People here did give simular advice to me about not transitioning if I did not have to, and even implying I was a guy who crossdressed - back then it did irritate me a few times but really it just made me ask myself some deeper questions.

Transition if you have to - there are a lot that come on here and from what they write I think it is totally wrong for them (like if they are more focused on clothing and other external things, rather than on what is going on inside them) or even if it seems right you can tell from the their circumstances and how they are feeling that its going to be a long brutal experience.


Should we say it or not? I don't know.

Younger people are in a different circumstance though, they don't have all those years invested into a male life.

Just my thoughts and feelings on it with no real answers. :)

[Angela Campbell]

First let me say that I would not advise transition simply because I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Not my worst enemy....and I had a fairly smooth and easy time of it.

And yes I do wish I could have done it sooner but that was not a real possibility.

It is good advice to warn of the possibilities for those who are not necessarily needing it. You know.....where fools tread......

It is a serious life altering, thing which cannot be fully undone. No I wouldn't recommend it unless you have to.

Paradox...yeah it is. But nothing to play with.

[LeaP]

My problem with the statement "Only transition if you HAVE to", is that I got a very strong sense that really, what was being said to me was:

" Don't transition."
" You are just a CD lost in the pink fog!"
"Your feelings about this aren't real!"

Married CDs seem to get this sort of advice a lot, despite the other really obvious symptoms they describe that peg them as a transsexual badly in need of transition.

...
But I am saying that the idea "don't do it unless you have to" is inherently dangerous - because the entire rest of the world so often tells us - "you don't need to do this, no one does!" Reinforcing that, however unintentionally, seems like a bad thing to me.

It's not that there aren't people who are being totally unrealistic about their need to transition. I have seen that before, although I have to say that at least here, the barriers to entry are pretty high. It's just that I continue to see people who pretty obviously need professional help being told, basically, "stop huffing the pink fog."



Let me start with the last – people who "pretty obviously" need help. I don't know if I'm recalling this correctly or not, but I believe you are a mental health professional? Even so, it is by no means obvious to all mental health professionals who is transsexual and who is not, who might benefit from transition or not. If you are, do you typically diagnose people in such summary fashion?

But assume that one of these folks who pop in to the forum is transsexual, would benefit. Is there some protocol, some well-understood path for starting them down the transition route other than what we have today? Which is, not to transition until one is certain about one's identity, until they are ready from any number of perspectives? No, of course not.

One has to wonder what it is you are really objecting to. These people are not ready to transition, usually by their own words! They don't know who they are and they have no idea what it means to transition. Yet you are upset with advice on the forum that would warn them away from it if they don't need to transition or if they aren't ready. This doesn't come out of thin air, but in response to questions about transition. Moreover, I have never seen the bald statements that you attribute to members in your post. There are always caveats and conditions surrounding the statements similar to the ones you say are being delivered.

But let's ignore that, too! Let's assume the transsexuality, the benefit of transition, and the upfront advice to transition. Unfortunately, readiness cannot be assumed. Still, it's the ultimate "you go, girl"!

What now? Is there a therapeutic relationship in place to help with the transition? Whoops, turns out "no" most of the time. If the person is married (in a category where you really don't like the advice), is the spouse ready? Does the spouse even know? Whoops again. Does the person know anyone who has transitioned? Not usually. If they do, is that person prepared to take on the level of support this person is going to need? God only knows. Are they financially ready? Ummmm, mostly not.

It seems almost comical to have to point out the reason why these sorts of questions are important. And that is because someone transitions is highly likely going to be blowing up a significant portion of their life and relationships, exceptions noted. The sidebar plea that some mysterious negative is being reinforced, along with the implication that we are complicit in manufacturing transition issues is the purest of BS.

Transition is both constructive and destructive by definition. Chances are there is going to be fallout from the destructive portion of it. That doesn't require anybody manufacturing problems. Those will come up quite nicely on their own, whether or not there is cultural reinforcement from our teeny community.

Perhaps the objection is form rather than substance. That is that we should talk nicely about transition instead of coming off as harpies ... something like that. Even if we have to resort to much nicer, politer, Q&A on inconveniences like risks and reactions. That might have some merit were we being importuned by the masses desperate to transition who are actually transsexual, or were we unduly discouraging the few who are. You suppose the former. I reject the latter!

I suppose instead that there are actually very few cross-sex identified individuals indeed. And not all of them need to, want to, or would benefit from transition. Those who would tend not to be ruffled in the least by the Q&A. As Misty might put it (and where has she been lately anyway?) "if they think this place is tough… "

[Kate T]

Watch out for the hidden assumptions in such formulations! An important one here is that damage caused by earlier transition would either not have occurred or be irrelevant.

My apologies Lea, I did not express myself well enough in the OP. This was certainly the concern I was trying to raise with the "do no harm" discussion in the second paragraph of the OP. I really only hinted at the medical consequences of inappropriate intervention and should also have talked about the probably far more concerning psychological and social consequences that can also occur with inappropriate intervention as many members here have already pointed out.

[LeaP]

Don't apologize! I loved the OP! It is so seldom a thing to be able to consider something new here, and I have not seen those two things put up against one another before. As you can see, it prompted a lot of discussion.

I just don't like the paradox formulation here. It raises too many side issues (e.g., the meaning of need) around the real question. Which is, is there any realistic way to identify earlier who should transition and how to get them there? Approaching this as a retrospective on a life already lived doesn't help, beyond providing context for the question.

[PaulaQ]

@LeaP - I don't diagnose anyone - how could I? My observation is simply that people who express profound emotional distress regarding their gender, and in particular who mention suicidal ideation probably need some support, and encouragement to seek competent professional help in their area with gender identity experience to help them figure out what is going on with them. The constant negativity here is unhelpful, or at least I found it to be so, to someone who was ready to simply end their life to end their suffering. Telling them "pink fog - you are just a CD - this path is too awful for what you suffer from" is a bad idea, in my opinion.

In my case, I realized I could lose everything, and that I didn't care. I still don't.

The only thing I did care about was whether or not there was any conceivable relief possible from the horrendous feelings that gender dysphoria caused me to have. Because if no such relief were possible, I didn't want to wait around in misery for much longer. I'd simply had all I could take.

There are some awful things that happen to some of us - but I would point out not all of us. I have friends who have transitioned, and really, they lost nothing but misery. They kept their jobs. They kept their homes. Their friends and family stuck with them. There are, amazingly enough, good outcomes sometimes. I know though, from personal experience, that loss is common, and I see this with many others I have worked with, many of whom have endured far more than I ever have. (I've been quite lucky.) Some lose it all. But most don't. Most do lose a lot though. I have no problem with telling people that - it is the truth.

It is the subtle undercurrent of "just don't do it." That I have a problem with. I think people need to have hope that their lives can be better in some measure.

[LeaP]

@LeaP - I don't diagnose anyone - how could I? My observation is simply that people who express profound emotional distress regarding their gender, and in particular who mention suicidal ideation probably need some support, and encouragement to seek competent professional help in their area with gender identity experience to help them figure out what is going on with them. The constant negativity here is unhelpful, or at least I found it to be so, to someone who was ready to simply end their life to end their suffering. Telling them "pink fog - you are just a CD - this path is too awful for what you suffer from" is a bad idea, in my opinion.

...

It is the subtle undercurrent of "just don't do it." That I have a problem with. I think people need to have hope that their lives can be better in some measure.

No diagnosis? What is: "... really obvious symptoms they describe that peg them as a transsexual badly in need of transition. "

People get constant counsel to seek help here. It is THE most common response.

I don't see negativity, really, I don't. The "unless you have to" relates to TS transitioning, and knowing you are such. Helping people get to that realization is always the first order of business. People who are not cross-sex identified should not transition, with rare exceptions. Wrong solution.

[flatlander_48]

As I am not transexual, I can't speak from experience, but I can speak from observation. My observation is that when people transition, it is from a place of standing at edge of the abyss. It isn't "I think I'll transition.". It is "I MUST transition.". Granted, people may delay transitioning due to medical, economic or family reasons, but that doesn't change the MUST.

In that context and given all of the checks and balances in place, how could anyone transition if they didn't have to?

[PretzelGirl]

Lea, I wonder if sometimes the message comes across different depending on which side of transition you are on. I know "don't transition if you don't have to" really made me think hard, which probably isn't a bad thing. But it also felt like a bigger barrier than maybe it needed to be. In the end, I didn't "have to", or I did, depending on how you define it.

For someone in extreme duress, it is hard love when a hug and encouragement are what is probably looked for by the person. For those that transitioned, it sounds helpful and wise. Advice given from someone that has been through it and fully understands having been through the experience. So like most short lines, a long talk/discussion probably fits the bill much better as it adapts to a person's feelings instead of being a quick saying that doesn't account for the target person and where they are at.

[LeaP]

The seekers and the pained will get more out of 15 minutes in person with a trans person than via pages and pages of OPs and responses here. This is an Internet discussion forum. The content ranges from mindless drivel to fantasy to education, various levels of informed opinion, information and resource sharing. Not to mention the occasional fraud, troll, or mole with an agenda. Some of that legitimately flies under the support banner. And people do connect here. The smart ones take that connection outside the forum for personal support. Hugs and love? You stretch the reality too far, I think.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Wait, you related your experience in the context of what you believed people "meant" vs what they "said".
You criticize us and ignore that people universally counsel others to get professional help here.

It's not your experience, its your point of view is challenged.. Especially by people who may feel their minds are being read, and by people that are sincere and genuine in trying to help others.

You ascribe motive to others that you cannot prove and frankly that's infuriating and counterproductive to all those here.
You denigrate the motives of well meaning and helpful people.

And what's more your visceral reaction to the statement is countered by your comments that were about all the difficulties transitioners face and you cannot coherently respond to why what you said is different than "don't do it unless you have too".

Play victim all you want.
I know for a fact that you got lots of support from me...I recall our pm's.. I recall this very situation and me telling you that people were taking you seriously...
I consistently urge people to consider all alternatives prior to transition.

You can do this all day but its only about you and you do not get the last word because you say you do.

[Eringirl]

I realize that I am on the "outside" here, only in the exploratory phase of Transitioning (e.g. not on HRT, etc). But I have found this to be a valuable discussion. It is helpful to get the perspective of all of you in your various stages of transitioning, and/or your experiences during and after. Everyone's story is different as are their experiences, and that I to be able to glean information for all of them is very valuable. It helps to ensure that I look at as many aspects of this whole thing as possible. I am working with one therapist and about to add a second one (who is a gatekeeper to an Endo and HRT). I feel that this has helped me to explore my motives, emotional state and ability to effectively deal with transitioning. It is not something I am considering lightly and many here have provided information that has been considered in my thoughts and discussions regarding this.

Having said this, I am scared. I am scared of what may happen if I don't transition. I am scared of what may happen if I do transition. But I would be more concerned if I wasn't scared. I am planning for the worst and seeing what that looks like and if able to deal with that and things go better, than that will be a bonus. I do realize that thinking I will be able to be prepared for it and living through it are two different things. This is something of which this discussion, and other threads, have made me acutely aware.

My experiences will be my experiences. They will be the same and different from others here, but will be mine. Valid to me. And when I am able some day to recount them here, some will be able to relate, others will not. That is fine. So thanks to all who have contributed to a robust discussion.

Not withstanding, I would be nice to get a hug from someone every now and again letting me know I am not alone in this.....:itsok:

[Kimberly Kael]

I wonder if sometimes the message comes across different depending on which side of transition you are on. I know "don't transition if you don't have to" really made me think hard, which probably isn't a bad thing.

I think the phrase in question is generally shorthand for everything that is harder to express, and that the whole point is to get a tentative transition to think long and hard about what they're doing. It's not just possible to do irreparable damage to relationships, families, and careers. It's so common that it is pretty much assumed. So the question has to be whether or not it's worth taking that risk. "Don't do it if you don't have to" is one way of getting that message across.


But it also felt like a bigger barrier than maybe it needed to be. In the end, I didn't "have to", or I did, depending on how you define it.

That's the question that we each answer for ourselves. In practice, I don't think I "had to" in any traditional sense. It wasn't an existential crisis for me. I wasn't miserable. I just knew that I was suppressing an important part of myself and that deep down I'd regret not transitioning. From an entirely analytical point of view, I saw enough signs of social progress that I felt there was more upside than downside for me. I also felt a social responsibility to embrace my identity to improve our visibility in the world, even if just a little. Finally, I was in good enough shape financially that I could have survived losing my career, though I'm glad it didn't come to that.

[Nigella]

Do you value the life that you lead now, the loved ones who share your time and space? Could you accept the loss of all that you hold dear?

During my journey I have seen and heard of many who could find a happy medium to ease their GD and have been able to lead a normal as possible life.

This issue I see is where do you draw the line at "Transition"? There are many areas of transition which will ease the GD, however, there are two areas IMHO that are clearly a defining points, HRT and SRS.

For me the "only transition if you have to" point is when you realise that this is the point of no return, that is when your life can become very complicated. The statement is very broad and each transitioner will interpret it their own way.

As for the paradox of "I wish I had done it earlier", in my case it was when I got on the other side we realised how much happier we were. For some it would be the relief of leaving behind a life that was not theirs and wishing that they had not wasted that time getting to where they are today.

[Cheyenne Skye]

Then instead of "I wish I had done it sooner. " how about "I wish I needed to do it sooner. " ?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

really when you say i wish i had done it sooner you are saying you wish you knew then what you know now... its true of so many things in life and this is no different


This whole thread is about how difficult it is to communicate something so unknowable..

[PretzelGirl]

That's the question that we each answer for ourselves. In practice, I don't think I "had to" in any traditional sense. It wasn't an existential crisis for me. I wasn't miserable. I just knew that I was suppressing an important part of myself and that deep down I'd regret not transitioning. From an entirely analytical point of view, I saw enough signs of social progress that I felt there was more upside than downside for me. I also felt a social responsibility to embrace my identity to improve our visibility in the world, even if just a little. Finally, I was in good enough shape financially that I could have survived losing my career, though I'm glad it didn't come to that.

Kimberly, I relate to this a lot. That is why I think I fell on the "didn't have to". But then that is predicting the future as maybe I just decided before it progressed to "I had to". I never despised Steve's life, but I love Sue's so much more and it is more complete and fulfilling. That is a good thing.

[Kate T]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I think overall a fairly interesting discussion.

[Tina_gm]

Regardless of where anyone is on the spectrum, most wish they had done it sooner. I would be among them. I wish I had married my wife sooner. I wish I would have divorced my 1st wife sooner. I wish I had told my second wife sooner. Are any of these things truly mistakes? some maybe, but I will say that in each case that I was completely ready to take the actions I did. I don't know if it is truly a paradox. I believe that wishing we had sooner is often a case of I wish I was ready sooner. Being ready sooner maybe that can be worked on, as society crawls out of its transphobia. Even then, when such a thing happens, such a life changing step, a person really should have absolutely no doubt about taking that step, and in the process will likely realize they could have done it at least a little sooner than they did. Better safe than sorry.

[Debglam]

A very interesting thread.

I think that Rianna brings up a very good point:
We see some people posting here about transition, but who value their relationship with a non-accepting wife more than they value being congruent. Or who value being seen to be the father of their children more than they feel the need to be whole. Or who value something else more than the need to be seen for who they really are. For those people, transition would be a mistake because it is not a priority for them and they would lose whatever the other thing is that they prize more.

I find myself somewhat in this category and what I would have done if I was say 20 years old but with all of the information that is out there now is a lot different than my current options. I tell people that transition is a "train that left the station without me" but(!!!) the only reason I think I can say that is because I truly believe that dysphoria occurs on a sliding scale. If the intensity was greater I likely wouldn't have the option of following this middle path. So having a choice to "transition only if you have to" seems to me to be a luck-of-the-draw situation where not everyone can make that choice.

Debby

[EvaMarie]

Sorry I never bought into this "wisdom"... I didn't HAVE to transition at 44, I had a very comfortable life as a male though I was getting very tired of fighting "her"... I know I could have soldiered on and tried to be content with keeping it all just a dream and very much a secret... But I also knew time wasn't on my side and it would never go away... It used to really bug me I could never find a wife and have kids and just be "normal", now of course I consider that a blessing:) No Ive always WANTED to transition and I felt like I was running out of time and energy fighting it... I definitely have ZERO regrets with my decision... YES it was a decision, I didn't HAVE to do it but Im sure glad I did:D

Of course the only thing holding me back was doubt in my mind that I could ever be successful... If I had known it was gonna be as easy as its been Id have done it sooner for sure .)

[Rianna Humble]

So please tell us, EvaMarie, what it was that you prized more than being whole but gave up to transition and don't regret?

And are you really sure that you didn't need to transition? Your words would suggest the opposite.

[genevie]

Do you value the life that you lead now, the loved ones who share your time and space? Could you accept the loss of all that you hold dear?

I spent some time last week with a couple T's. Those are their words, not mine. We talked about loss. The loss holds me back. I have a meeting this week with my therapist and that certainly will be a major part of the discussion.

As for the I wish I had done it sooner, maturity and decision making that arises from that maturity and perspective tells me that we can only make decisions when we can.

[STACY B]

I heard the same as Rianna in that post ,,lol,,, An for most Trans Girls it is a Have too ! Not a want to ! You would have to be CRAZY or just insane to go through all of this if you didn't HAVE TOO ! I for one like most of the others am in the HALF TOO club ,, An the reason we wait so long is we have to consider all other options .

An after all the other options are crossed off the list we have nothing left but transition . Hell I made a GREAT MAN ,, I made it look easy ,, Had a great life an job an family ,, Only thing that was missing was HER ,, An believe it or not that's a BIG ONE .
Don't get me wrong I tried like hell NOT TOO ,, Being a Taurus you can only imagine the Fight I put up before I let go ? An still find myself wanting to fight from time to time from shear guilt an shame an regret .
Years of Alcohol abuse ,,, Physical abuse ,, Mental Abuse ,, Abusing my Body ,, Weight gain ,, Damage from just general jobs an carriers I chose to prove I wasn't that way or this way .
An the whole aspect of getting educated in a place where there isn't much until the internet came along . An the reality of coming to terms with it an accepting it was pure Hell for me .

Not to mention the struggle with my family issues . Hell how can I explain it to them something I don't even understand ? I have to learn an educate myself before I can even try or think about how an what to say to them . An what if there just like me or like I was at that age or just a Bull headed as I am or was ?

Can I do it ? Do I have the fuel to explain it ,, Or make them believe me ? Or make them understand ? If your not with someone day in or day out explaining an drudging the day to day actions of this whole thing an them seeing an learning from day to day how ever evolving this self discovery this is how would or could they know ? They just know what you tell them ? Not what is fact an has some scientific backing ,, Hell even the experts second guess themselves .

Only thing I can ever say or tell someone doing this or contnplating going threw this is EDUCATE YOURSELF as much as you can . An take it one day at a time an get as much support as you can . You have to relent your male self an build a female self ,, Its not about being weak or sissified or girly or any of those stereo types of the media an what was said in your past life .
We are just PEOPLE FIRST ,,Trans second ,, Just be the best female self you can be ,, Your still gonna be you ,, Just not the male you ,, If your kind an sweet now an live an authentic life now as you are you will do the same after transition .
If you are evil an lie an are mean an distrustful now you will be the same after transition . GIVING UP was the hardest thing for me ,, Giving in ,, Letting go of all I held dear an meaningful an was my shield of armor . My costume ,, My identity might have been a lie ,, But is was the best lie I had . An the more I ran from her the bigger that lie got an the stronger an better was the costume . It took over 40 years to put that costume together . anyone work on a Halloween costume for over 40 years ? AN ,, Letting all those surpressed feelings out ,, Learning all over to show some emotion an not bottling it all up an trying to MAN UP an finding another way to BE STRONG .
There are lots of Strong women out there ,, My SO is one of the STRONGEST female I know ,, Just because I am Bigger than her does not mean I am stronger . MAYBE PHYSICAL ,, But never Mental , I couldn't do it without her . I gave up several times an she is the one that pick me up an put her foot where it don't shine an said DO IT !
As for me its HAVE TOO TIME ,, I didn't start until I had to ,, But I will just live an learn along the way ,, An with the help from this site an all my support systems where ever I can find them along the way I will get through an will survive I guess ,, Different than I expected but what the hell ,, As Bad I as thought it was going to be in my mind how much worse could it be ?

Time was running out on my old life fast an as I look into my future I see lots of thing lsft to do an see an share with my SO ,, The one I love an the one I want to spend the rest of my life with . I get up everyday an the first thing I think of is how Dam Lucky I am to have a wife that loves me for me . An the next thing I think of is how can I make her life Better than it was yesterday . This whole Transition thing has shown me one thing that I was never aware of in my life TRUE LOVE ,, Unconditional LOVE ,,

In my life before transition all I knew in my mind was Love had a cost . Someone had to pay someway ! With Money or time or Emotion ,, But it had a price ,, An now I see that is not always the case . My is no payday for my wife here ,, Just pay her back with the same Love that she gives .

Hard for the Man Me ,, Easy for the Woman me ,, That's what I mean when I say letting go ,, Learn to Love Like a woman an you will learn how to live like a person . Have Too ? YEP ,, :D :D :D

[Inna]

both statements are equally tangible yet the opposing nature arises from the perspective of our times.
"Transition only when all the options have been exhausted" came from dreaded reality of transitioning amongst rigorous and frankly misunderstood subject of TransSexuality within blind societal scrutiny.
"I wish I transitioned when I still had entire life ahead of me" is as obvious as "to live the life fulfilled"

Times are changing as does the consciousness of human kind. Many more kids from 2 y.o. on come forth. Most of the parents are young enough to know or had heard of similar situation within their community. And even though this remains a tough and somewhat uneasy subject, day by day the clout of dread is lifted.

Give it another 20 years and there will not be another 40, 50, 60 y.o. transitioners but most will live their life as they should always had, without the stigma of false pretense

P.S. lets be glad we live in times we are still able to experience truth within. Only 50-60 years back such would not be possible. We are, "the lucky ones!!!"

[EvaMarie]

So please tell us, EvaMarie, what it was that you prized more than being whole but gave up to transition and don't regret?

And are you really sure that you didn't need to transition? Your words would suggest the opposite.

OK Ive given this a lot of thought... Honestly Ive given up NOTHING and I have zero regrets :thumbsup::D Actually If I could wake up tomorrow and have all of the old "guy stuff" GONE Id be very happy.... It sucks being surrounded by it all and Id Id love to move somewhere else and go 100% stealth and live a much simpler live as a woman .) Im in the process of trying to sell it all and its overwhelming.... Imagine managing your own estate sale:brolleyes:

Like I said though I was in the fortunate position to easily do this... The $$$ is there, no wife, no kids... Ive been "retired" since I was 39.... My only fears were being disowned by my family and being seen as a freak and not being able to pass... Neither are a problem now, my family really surprised me but I never depended on them for anything so they didn't have much choice but to accept me... Its genuine love and support though and for the first time in my life me and my mother have a real connection:) "Passing" hasn't been a problem either thank Goddess!!! Ive been amazed by the ease Ive had just stopping the whole "man act" and living as a woman and to my surprise apparently a very pretty one:battingeyelashes:

So while I can sympathize with my sisters who are less fortunate than me not everyone has to go through hell to be their true self:)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

lots of strawmen now.
There are of course exceptions to every rule.

Its quite important to note there is context to the statement. Without the context its way too broad of an idea

"Don't transition unless you have to" is said in either the context of suffering/loss or the context of lack of seriousness/planning/critical thought..

If you have nothing to lose, then the concept is totally meaningless.

[Anne2345]

@EvaMarie: Wow. You've got this transition thing licked, I see. Very impressive. By your words, you have no regrets, no loss, you're fully passable, you're accepted by everyone, your family loves and supports you, you're a little more than a year into HRT but have already had "VFS and full FFS," you've been able to completely stop the "man act" at the drop of a hat, you're living fulltime as a "very pretty" woman, and you didn't even HAVE to transition, rather, you made the proactive decision to just go ahead and do it because you had always "wanted" to do it. Oh, and you will be scheduling your SRS here super soon with Dr. Brassard . . . .

I've gotta give you props - very well done, and good for you.

Still, you are only 6 posts into your membership here on the forum. With the streamlined, successful, and ultra-efficient transition you have enjoyed to date, you have GOT to tell us more about yourself. And more importantly, you have got to tell us HOW you have managed to pull off all of these things in the manner in which you have. I mean, since you have such a great handle on yourself and your transition, presumably you are here to share your story and experiences with those less fortunate than you in hopes that we may benefit from it all, right?

But the thing is, neither I nor anybody else here can take anything away or benefit from your amazing story and life experiences unless you offer details and substance.

I thank you in advance, and look forward to reading more about you!! :-)

[EvaMarie]

@EvaMarie: Wow. You've got this transition thing licked, I see. Very impressive. By your words, you have no regrets, no loss, you're fully passable, you're accepted by everyone, your family loves and supports you, you're a little more than a year into HRT but have already had "VFS and full FFS," you've been able to completely stop the "man act" at the drop of a hat, you're living fulltime as a "very pretty" woman, and you didn't even HAVE to transition, rather, you made the proactive decision to just go ahead and do it because you had always "wanted" to do it.

Well thanks (I think) honestly yes its been easier that I ever thought it would be .) Why would I lie:idontknow: Yes ZERO regrets and ZERO loss aside from "male privilege" I dont miss much .... Of course it took a while and I know I didnt pass well at all at first but yes why is it such a stretch to think that a person 5' 7" with smaller hands and feet and an average build and a lot of effort couldn't do this after more than a year full time and after 14 months on HRT and successful VFS and FFS :strugglin Im sorry I decided to transition so I could be happy and I certainly am, otherwise whats the point???


But the thing is, neither I nor anybody else here can take anything away or benefit from your amazing story and life experiences unless you offer details and substance.

I thank you in advance, and look forward to reading more about you!! :-)

Well I think there is a private forum here Id be much more comfortable going into the details in but it takes a while to join the secret club??? Im itching to see it anyway... Until then your just gonna have to put up with me without having the whole story out there .)

[Kate T]

Thankyou for your input Eva. Please forgive some of the questioning comments, there have been people on these forums before who have been less than truthful about their lives and experiences and this is quite hurtful and disrespectful to those who have had struggles and difficulties. I do hope that you are not one of those people.

Perhaps though we can go a little easier on the sarcasm directed at Eva? it would be a shame if Eva felt excluded before she has a chance to offer her story and experience.

[EvaMarie]

Hey no problem I have very thick skin you know... A sarcastic post post on an internet forum dont bother me, compared to what Ive already dealt with in life .) Transition aint for sissies I like to say:heehee:

Im not saying its a cake walk for me but just that nearly all of my fears weren't that big of a deal and Im happier than I ever imagined Id be:o Of course Im far from done yet too and the steps get bigger and harder to do .) Im fortunate to have done very well financially at least as a "man" and that certainly helps....

I in no way meant to offend anyone who's had or having a hard time with losing their job, wife, kids ect... I can say I cant really get that but only because I never married or had kids.... I can see how the advice "dont transition unless you have too" might apply there...

After some thought.... Loss??? Yes I made 350K the last year I worked as a man.... After a couple of years and more than 100K on surgeries Im not looking forward to possibly having a hard time finding a job at Target or as a cashier at the gas station... BUT I have no regrets there... Ive yet to work as a woman but that's my next step, I'll roll with that as it goes along .) Im not bragging either just giving a few truthful details about me... Im certainly not looking to get in a pissing contest with another TS, I can hardly pee standing up without making a mess of myself anyway LOL

[Anne2345]

Well I think there is a private forum here Id be much more comfortable going into the details in but it takes a while to join the secret club??? Im itching to see it anyway... Until then your just gonna have to put up with me without having the whole story out there .)

Hmmm. You're comfortable relating to the open transsexual forum that you made $350k the last year you worked, that you have spent more than $100k on FFS and VFS, that your family loves and supports you, that you are open and out to the world, that you are selling all of your male stuff to whoever will buy it, that you are "very pretty," that you will soon have SRS performed by a well-known and well-respected doc, that you have had "ZERO regrets" and "ZERO loss," and that you are awesomely and amazingly happy, yet you won't share any of the substantive details of HOW this is and HOW you did this???

Please forgive me if I am being somewhat unreasonable here, but jeez!!! This is *really important* stuff to a lot of different folk here, me included. So to come in here just all willy nilly and completely out of the blue as you have - and offer no personal history or explanation of circumstances at all whatsoever - and to write such words and thoughts as you have (which are based upon no established foundation at all) I find to be just a wee bit reckless and a bit over the top.

But maybe that's just me, and maybe I am being completely unfair to you here. If so, I apologize . . . .

[Ann Louise]

Waiter, I'll have what Eva's having... ^_^

[Rianna Humble]

We see some people posting here about transition, but who value their relationship with a non-accepting wife more than they value being congruent. Or who value being seen to be the father of their children more than they feel the need to be whole. Or who value something else more than the need to be seen for who they really are. For those people, transition would be a mistake because it is not a priority for them and they would lose whatever the other thing is that they prize more.

EvaMarie, in context, this is the "wisdom" that you say you don't buy


Sorry I never bought into this "wisdom"... I didn't HAVE to transition at 44,

You didn't have to, but did you need to? Your words suggest that you did have a need.



So please tell us, EvaMarie, what it was that you prized more than being whole but gave up to transition and don't regret?

OK Ive given this a lot of thought... Honestly Ive given up NOTHING and I have zero regrets

SO, if you have nothing that you prized more than becoming whole, why do you say that it was bad advice to tell people who have things that they do prize more to be certain that they need to transition in case they lose that which they prize above congruence?

[Sammy777]

The "Only transitions if you HAVE too" VS The "I wish I had transitioned sooner" Paradox.

First the "I wish I had transitioned sooner"

There are really only two things on a TS's wishlist.
1) I wish I was born a girl.
2) I wish I was able to transition younger, preferably before puberty.
Thing is, life usually has a funny way of screwing us out of both of those one way or another.

Yes, many of us wish we could have done it pre-puberty like how all the cool kids are doing it today.
But the, usually harsh, realities of life come rushing back and we realize that it did not matter how young we "felt it".
We knew then, just as we know now, that coming out at that young age was never going to end well.

Yes the puberty blocking drugs used today were around when I was young enough to use them.
Bad news is they were not using them for us, or even thinking about it back then and they would have cost a fortune!

The primary course of action when I was a teen, and still [sadly] sometimes used today is: Go through puberty to make sure.
The equivalent of a mechanic telling you to drive really fast towards a brick wall after you tell them you have no brakes.
The outcome from both: Oh sorry for completely screwing up that cherry bodywork of yours, here's a lollipop kiddo.
Basically the major damage is done, with minor additional damage being added each year it's not properly fixed.

Add in Electrolysis and Laser hair removal are relatively new and were not user friendly, cheap or easy to find back then.
We soon see how a serious lack of options, inconceivable costs and huge medical roadblocks helped some bury themselves.
Even if we came out to an accepting family able to afford these things, it was still a waiting game till you turned 18.

Personally, back then I knew NOTHING of all these financial and medical hurdles and roadblocks one had to get through.
There's one thing however that I did know, My family, which can be summed up in four words: Old World, Catholic, Italian.
Without going into a personal long winded graphic detail of my family let's just say they barely "get it" now.
I think growing up our families were one of the biggest reasons for shoving all this deep, deep down inside for so long.

Now the "Only transitions if you HAVE too"
I think this truly is the "short version answer" and does tend to lose a lot in translation.

First is the "Am I/Are you Transsexual" aspect which reminds me of an old quote [from who I forget] about Punk.
[Horrid paraphrasing at its best here] This person was asked: "How does someone know if they're Punk or not?"
The answer: "If you have to ask yourself, then you're not." Much like us, it's just something you know deep inside.

But in us, a lot of times there is a stark difference between what we know to be true and accepting it.
Once you have accepted it you then have a rather simple choice to make that has very complicated ramifications.

Do you keep the status quo, continuing to play Male or do you come clean and start living as who you really are?
Both of which can and do have serious fall out. The first one for you, the second for everyone around you.

I think it is really more of a warning then anything else and thinly veiled as "Advice".
I think the "You have to" part describes what you are about to do, and that is pulling the pin on a grenade.
"You have to" be prepared to lose everybody and everything in your life.
"You have to" be prepared for whole new Nightmare levels of shit to hit the fan.
"You have to" be prepared to walk away from everything you thought you knew and start over.
"You have to" be prepared for and realize this is not going to happen overnight.
"You have to" realize that coming out isn't a fix all for everything else you may be going through.

It doesn't always come to the transition or die stage, more like transition is more important then everything else stage.
There comes the point in all of us when we can no longer jump on that grenade and shield our family from the shock wave.
The point when all of it, and I mean ALL of it just doesn't matter to you anymore, that movie moment when the hero doesn't even glance back as they walk away and everything behind them goes up in a big fireball.

PS: I would like to point out one VERY important thing about the above.
I am NOT saying you WILL lose everything dear to you. Because that doesn't always happen.
Just be PREPARED to have it all swept away in a nuclear blast.
The best way to secure peace is to prepare for war. :D

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Those are terrific comments Sammy...it is lost in translation that this comment gets made much more to a group of people that are suffering and having trouble with all this.

Eva...thnx for highlighting that you never had any trouble with all this...it was very helpful

[Anne2345]

@Sammy: Very well stated. :clap:

@EvaMarie: Some folk here ask you a few legitimate questions - all of which you either ignored, refused to answer, or just casually glossed over with little, if any substance - to which you now state thereafter that this is a "pointless argument?"

A pointless argument??!! Are you serious???!!

There is nothing pointless about any of this, EvaMarie. This is REAL life, and it MATTERS!!

But what do I know, and who am I around here, anyways??

For someone who just joined the forum, IMO, you have made some incredibly bold assertions which you have backed up with absolutely nothing.

And for someone who claims she has the requisite "thick skin" to handle all of this, to blow this exercise off as "pointless" when questioned is entirely disingenuous of you at best. As for what it may be at its worst, I think that goes without saying . . . .

I am not the forum's resident attack dog, EvaMarie. I have, however, asked you some fair questions, as has Kaitlyn and Rianna. The red flags that are buzzing all around are not of our making. Those red flags are your doing.

The good news, though, is that you have the power to do something about that and to establish yourself and your credibility here.

The ball is in your court. I personally hope you score a slam dunk and wow us all - because the more positive success stories around here and out in the real world the better. Such things serve each and every one of us well both individually and as a collective . . . .

[Brooklyn]

When I find myself thinking about how I should have transitioned sooner, I tell myself that is anxiety talking. It may be true, but dwelling on that fact only brings me down. So many of us never transition, never get to be ourselves, only stay angry and depressed throughout life. Instead, I think about how freaking fortunate I am to live under all the right conditions to make transition possible, and how grateful I am to others who have paved the road before me (albeit with potholes). And I thank myself for having the courage to transition, instead of becoming self-destructive or even suicidal. Can I help someone else in the future just through my experience, perhaps? Maybe I can even set a good example and change some minds about transgender people and about staying true to oneself. I look at my two beautiful kids and ask myself, would I give them up to have a nicer hairline? The thought is absurd, of course. And if you’ve hung around enough early transitioners, you know life isn’t easy for them either. A friend of mine who is generally stealth now had a transition that makes me wonder how she made it out of her twenties alive. Many are disowned, homeless, cannot find work, assaulted, and victimized in countless ways.

There is an old saying, “The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago, the second best time is now. Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree.”

When people say “Only transition if you must”, it is simply cautionary. I have not met anyone who transitioned without a certain amount of loss. I almost lost my kids in court, I have suffered financially, I have lost friends, I have been assaulted, had trouble finding work, and I probably have it easy compared to some others. Every day is a struggle to pass as best I can. I may eventually leave Texas so I can have equal rights. I probably have spent 250 hours under the electrolysis probe. And still, there are many who snicker, or think I’m insane, or an abomination. Others don’t think I’m legit until after SRS. Clearly, no-one would want to go through all this and more if it wasn’t necessary, but it is worth it to me.